How @databutmakeitfashion Went From Coding At Harvard To Creating The Go-To Fashion Trend Forecasting Account

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

0:30I miss the pod and I miss you guys. So I am so grateful to be back to both. And we are kicking off the new year in a really strong way because today we are going behind the scenes of one of my favorite fashion Instagram accounts. If you've ever sat at home and wondered, are skinny jeans actually back in style? What brand is going to make a comeback this year? Or what's the hottest color that I need to be adding to my wardrobe right now? Sure, you can listen to the pod. You can ask friends or even just rely on your own personal style. but the one thing that isn't subjective is data. And that's why Harvard alum Made LaPuerta started Data But Make It Fashion.

1:06She's a data scientist who uses code to scrape the internet, how cool is that, and find out what people are actually talking about and wearing, and shares it daily to her nearly 500 ,000 followers. In today's episode, Made and I got to sit down and talk about how she combined her love for tech and fashion, what makes a trend stick, and what to look out for and add to your closet for the year ahead. I know you guys are going to love this episode. Made is incredible and I so admire her work. Go shoot Dad up a Make It Fashion a follow if you aren't already. Let's go get dressed with Made La Puerta of Dad up a Make It Fashion.

1:41Thank you for coming on the pod today. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to have you here. I would say you're probably like my favorite Instagram follow. No way. Stop. I just like, I absolutely love following you and don't think that there are a lot of people who have blended your expertise and been able to execute it and output it in the way that you have. Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, I think that's everything. I mean, we all have like skills and things that we're interested in, but being able to then share that information in a way that's interesting and engaging is everything.

2:10Yeah, it's been a journey for sure, figuring that part out. How did you start Data But Make It Fashion? Yeah, good question. So I've been coding since I was 13. So I had a computer science background, took some classes in high school. And then when I got to college, I ended up majoring in computer science as well. So I had that skill set. I had like the data analysis and I knew how to code and I knew how to do all that fun tech stuff. But in college, I really struggled because it kind of seemed like the only opportunities in tech were like Silicon Valley, Tech Bro, working at a tech company. And like, while those are all great and valid paths, I definitely did not feel like I really fit in.

2:46And so because I was really interested in fashion, I tried to figure out how I could blend the two. I didn't really think I could. But the summer of 2019, I did an internship at Google in New York City. And I had a wonderful boss, shout out to Anu, she's the best, who was very, very adamant and very helpful in allowing me to figure it out and teaching me different things that I could do in tech that I could apply to fashion. So that's when I started the Instagram account. And it was kind of just a way for me to post what I was doing and post what I was working on. I always like to use the phrase like I was throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck because it was pretty random and I was just trying a bunch of new things.

3:26So I've had the account since 2019. I would post on it maybe like once every two weeks. It was just kind of fun stuff I was doing on the side. But my 2023 NIRS resolution was to be more consistent with it. So I started posting something, whether it was a reel or a post or anything, every single day. And there were just so many things that I learned by doing, especially kind of what you mentioned, like figuring out how to package this information in a way that people wanted and that resonated with people. So I learned a lot by just posting a lot and being more consistent. And then it took off pretty quickly after that.

3:56So I could maybe count on multiple hands how many times my New Year's resolution has been like, be more consistent with your content. And this episode's coming out at the beginning of the year. So I'm sure a lot of people are like nodding their heads being like, yes, I need to be more consistent with my content. Yeah. Honestly, it helped a lot. I mean, it was night and day. Like also because I think there's so many things that you can learn from books or podcasts or, you know, like TV or advice, but there's some things that you just can't. And so I always think about like that there's just so many things like the way I post even six weeks ago or six months ago is so different than the way I post now because there were some things I could only have learned by doing and learning how people responded to stuff and trying something.

4:35And then if it flopped, okay, archive. And if it did well, oh, okay, like why did that do well? So the consistency really, really, yeah, people are onto something with that. It really helped. Are we archiving our flopped posts? You know what? I used to more. Now I'm like, okay. We're like, embrace it. Look, I think being in social media, and especially if you're someone who is data-driven and really has an end goal, it's one of the most vulnerable jobs you can have in the world. You really have to be willing to flop in front of thousands of people just for shits and giggles. Just put your greatest ambitions out there and be like, is this outfit working?

5:11Do people like this? Is this format working? It's really a vulnerable job. But I think if you can lean into that, I've found like so much love and community in that and just being like, OK, you guys are here on my journey. I've had Instagram for 10 years. You guys have seen me posting mirror selfies in college and now like up to, you know, getting married. Like I think if you're willing to do that, you really will feel like the fruits of your labor in it. Because I think if you can build a community that's willing to be on the road with you, it's great. Yeah, that's a good point. I really like what you were saying earlier about, you know, feeling like if you wanted to be in tuck, you needed to be in Silicon Valley.

5:47Yeah. It's a question that I get asked frequently. Like if you want to be in fashion, do you need to live in New York? And especially now that I live in LA and I've found such a great fashion community there and I'm like thriving more than I ever did living in New York for 10 years. Yeah, it's an interesting conversation to bring up. What was helpful for you in finding that community here and really planting your feet on the ground and saying, I can do this here. I don't need to move to Silicon Valley. Yeah, well, honestly, when I was in college and applying to internships, I remember I had applied to Google like seven times before I actually got a job there.

6:21I just kept getting rejected. And every single team that I applied to was based in Silicon Valley, except for by chance, the one that I got accepted to. It was just they were randomly based in New York City. And so I feel very fortunate to have had that experience because my first experience working for a big tech company was at the Google Chelsea office here in New York. So that was good to see. I think then pretty soon after that, the COVID pandemic kind of democratized things a bit because remote work became so popular and it was so kind of normal to not live in a big city or not live or have to live in San Francisco or Silicon Valley to work for a company.

6:56I do still think there is kind of this idea that like the best tech talent is in Silicon Valley. I think there's a little bit of truth to that. I think there's just so many people there that do tech. But I think that can be true for like maybe a subset of what tech is. And I think there's so many ways that you can apply tech outside of tech companies. So I always tell people like any company that you can think of, like hires tech talent, right? So companies like L 'Oreal, Estee Lauder, Pepsi, LVMH, Nordstrom, like really everyone. And a lot of those companies, like if you're looking for a tech company, fine.

7:26Okay, maybe that's going to have headquarters in SF. But if you're interested in doing tech outside of tech, there are a lot of companies that are headquartered everywhere else. A lot of other cities in the US, a lot of cities abroad. So I try and think about like, okay, sure, like the validity of living in Silicon Valley is very valid for a subset of people. But there are a lot of opportunities outside of Google, Facebook, Microsoft. I always make the case for Instagram being a business card and you being able to share that business card virtually anywhere. Yeah. I think of so many of my favorite creators now who are based all over the country.

7:59And I, a lot of the times, actually have no idea where they're from. Yeah, that's true. Obviously, if they're like New York content creators, You can see New York as like their backdrop. Cool. But like there are so many who I'm just like, where do you live? Yeah. One of my favorite girls on Instagram, her name is Summer Warren. And I did not know until recently that she's based in Arizona. Oh, wow. And I just like would not have known. I've never been to Arizona. So it's not like I could recognize any of the any of the spots. But yeah, nowadays, like it's really kind of hard to tell. And if you make good content, you make good content.

8:29And I don't really care where you make it from. I mean, no one knew where Nora Smith lived until like recently. Yeah. Everyone was like, where do you live? And I'm like, she's in Dallas. But like no one knew where she was. And she became the biggest creator in the country. Yes. Like, I really think you can do it from anywhere if you have that like niche. And like, for all I know, you could be living in SF. I just know that you live here because you like hang out with the girls. And I like see you out and out. But like, besides that, like, I'm like, oh, she could literally be anywhere. And if she's creating great content, I don't really care.

8:57So my answer to like, do you need to live in New York to be in fashion? Do you need to be in SF to be in tech? Like, no. I think you just need to have a really good business card. Yeah. Yeah. Good point. I agree. Every time I like see you on Instagram, the one thing I'm always so fascinated by is you're like, okay, Navy's coming back. And I scanned X thousands amount of things on the internet to come to this conclusion. And I read that you actually built a software to be able to analyze fashion trends on the internet. Tell us how you did it. Yes. I try and think about everything because I don't work for a fashion brand.

9:32I don't have access to like, like if I worked for Louis Vuitton, maybe I would have access to like data that they have, like what products are selling or what people are buying or what they see trending on their website. But because I don't work for a fashion brand, I don't have access to like brands proprietary information. So I try and think about everything that's publicly online as a possible data point. So anything from pictures on Instagram to comments on Instagram, to likes on Instagram, to tweets, to news articles, to reviews on Vogue.com, Really anything that's public and online, I will pull, I will scrape it.

10:05I will create a data set for whatever trend I'm looking at, like Navy Blue. I'll just pull a ton of posts or comments or pictures talking about or referencing Navy Blue. I'll build the data set on that. And then I'll use a couple of different methods to analyze it in a way that I think works, including whatever kind of knowledge and context I have on fashion, like how much should a like be worth, how much should a retweet be worth, etc. I will say like the very like genesis of the software, it's pretty kind of, I think, standard data analytics. When I started, it was at least pretty standard data analytics.

10:39Like the first computer science class I took in college, they taught us how to scrape Twitter and run something called a sentiment analysis, which is where you try and quantify how positive a tweet is. like if a tweet says Navy Blue is awesome, that is like good and positive. And the computer will tell you that. And if a tweet says Navy Blue is horrible, the computer will tell you that's horrible. But the way that we learned that was they told us how to scrape it and do a sentiment analysis to see how people were feeling about different political candidates, because my first semester of college was 2016.

11:08So I was like, OK, how can I do that exact same thing? But instead of political candidates, I want to look at like Navy Blue or Ballet Flats. So that's kind of how I learned it. But what about I'm thinking of like my own Twitter feed right now and like thinking how crazy the like almost Twitter lingo dialect is. Yes. Yes. It's very hard. Yeah. What if there's like someone saying like Navy Blue is sick? Yes. That's such a good example. I always use the example of sick. Sick. Because like the scraping of it could be like, oh, it's sick. Yeah, exactly. But to us, we're like, that's the coolest thing ever.

11:44Another one is like, I'm dead. Like, I'm dead. And like, obviously, that's a positive thing. I think about this all the time. And that's why I say like, you have to tweak it a little bit. Yeah, you have to intervene a little bit. Yes, yes. Okay, okay. So it's like, okay, I understand that if someone says this outfit is sick, that is a good thing. Like, I can kind of manually adjust for that. Like, even like things like little emojis. I mean, it is very interesting. And that's why, I don't know, I have never been a believer that like, computers are going to take over the world. because I do think humans are always kind of needed to intervene.

12:12And that is a good example of that. I try to think about the way that I view trends as someone in fashion who loves to follow trends. I get so much negative commentary through social media of people being like, why do we follow trends? It's so cyclical. I do it for fun. I enjoy it because that's just part of fashion. And I'm not someone who will like go spend a thousand dollars on something to be trendy, but I like to know what people are interested in. It's what, to me, trends are what keeps like kind of the hamster wheel of fashion moving and the discourse moving. And it's fun. I really enjoy it.

12:46But I wonder, to me, trends feel a little bit emotional, like a color for the season or ballet flats even have like, I feel like an emotional context to them. How does analyzing trends make you look at fashion differently, especially for something that I consider to be deeply emotional? Yeah, that's a good question. I also like definitely now it's a bit different. But when I was starting the account, when it started to grow, I definitely got a lot of comments that were like, we shouldn't just be chasing trends. Like this is not the point of fashion. And look, like I said, Navy is the new black and here I am in an all black outfit.

13:21Like I'm definitely not telling you you need to buy everything just because it's hot. But I do think it's interesting because I think I wasn't really into fashion when I was younger. I didn't understand it. I thought it was a lot about logos and like very superfluous, very vain. And it wasn't until I watched the Alexander McQueen documentary that I was like, yeah, so good. No, literally life changing. Like it changed my life. If you guys have not seen that, you need to watch it now. Wow. Definitely watch it. And I think that's when I realized that fashion had so much more to it, like a lot of creativity, a lot of nuance, a lot of passion, a lot of emotion.

13:56And I do think That trends and what's happening in fashion are sometimes a product or very indicative of how people are feeling, what's happening in the world, where we want the world to go from here. So a really good example is when green was really popular this summer. There were two major worldwide artists that had dropped albums that featured very heavily green. And people leaned into that a lot. And then, of course, green starts to rise in popularity. And it didn't come out of nowhere. It came because people were listening to these artists' music. people were going to their tours. It was resonating.

14:28People probably saw it as an inspiration of, you know, I really align with this artist. How can I incorporate green into my wardrobe? And even if it's like subconscious, the data lines or the trend lines definitely show that, you know, trends rise and fall usually for a reason. I mean, maybe sometimes it's random, but they don't usually come out of nowhere. And that's what I think is really beautiful to see when I analyze trends. It's not so much to tell you what to go out and buy or that you have to go out and buy something to be in style or to be stylish. It's more like, okay, you know, there are certain things that are happening in the world.

15:01There are certain things that, you know, ways that people are feeling and this is how it's reflective or this is how it's manifesting in fashion and fashion trends. What do you think makes a trend stick? For what makes a trend stick, I try and think, well, I think the biggest example, at least this year, of a trend sticking for a long period of time, I think was the Western aesthetic that started becoming really popular in like January, February. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. One, I think everybody was hopping onto it. Like you had Bad Bunny released an album where he had kind of, you know, like a cowboy on the cover, himself as a cowboy on the cover.

15:34You had Pharrell's fashion show for Louis Vuitton that was very Western. You have Beyonce come out with Cowboy Carter. You have Peso Pluma and his, you know, kind of very Western aesthetic as well at Coachella. Like there's just so many people that were hopping onto it. Lana Del Rey with her country album, Post Malone. I mean, I could go on. But I think what made that trend stick is that it was not very restrictive. Like, for example, if you think of something like skinny jeans, which are always popular, by the way, like anytime I analyze them, they're always popular, I will say. But like, that's a very...

16:03Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The earth just shook. You're telling me that every time you put skinny jeans into your fashion simulator, they come out as popular? Yes, every single time. and it drives people crazy because they were always supposed to about it and people get so angry and I'm like, they've stuck around for a really long time. I'm like getting hot. I'm getting a little warm. I think what's difficult about something like skinny jeans is that it's a very specific silhouette. It's a very specific item. And so kind of following that trend.

16:33Really quickly, is this a global scan or a U.S. scan specifically? U.S. specifically. Yeah, I know. But where? Why? Why? I still own a pair. Okay, okay. What do you think? I think they look cute in a riding boot. Let me get my shit together. Why do you think that they maintain their popularity? Because one of the questions I wanted to ask you was, going into this year, there has been a very strong conversation about skinny jeans coming back into the fold. Yes, yes, yes. Why do you think that they're, why do you think it's such a divisive conversation? I think there are some things that are just popular to hate on.

17:10Like, I think ballet flats was that until around a year or two ago. I think everybody loved hitting on ballet flats. People love hitting on low rise jeans. Like there are certain things that I think are very popular to hate. And those things I love plugging into my fashion simulator, as you said, and they're always popular. They're always popular. So it's a bit like, you know, say whatever you want. Like, I know you all love skinny jeans. And I think, look, skinny jeans maybe is a bad example. But I think, you know, people wear them tucked into boots. People probably have a pair that they've had for a long time.

17:40time. The boots is a very specific example, which I agree with. Like, do you need one in your closet just to be able to wear with knee high boots? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As you can tell, I'm a hater. That's why I keep my pair, too. Yeah. You need them for that. Yeah. I'm curious. You brought up Western and immediately like my brain started going back and forth because I think there are certain things and you are the perfect person to have this conversation with. I do think as a society, we're really quick to call something a trend versus something that is almost like a neutral in our closet that we rotate out.

18:12I'm trying to find the word for what that is. Yeah. But it's not a trend to me, like a pair of Western boots or even what was the example the other day that was used leopard or even like a pair of cargo jeans. Like those are not things that when I see they're trending, I'm going to buy a new thing of. There's something that I usually already have in my closet. Yeah. What do you think about that? Yeah, that's a good point. I think, I don't know. I remember when I kind of started, I was looking a lot at runway trends. And I would look at kind of like every runway show from McQueen to Balmain to Louis Vuitton to Chanel, like to Acne Studios.

18:49I mean, everybody. And there were certain trends or certain things that were pretty consistently seen across everyone. So for example, button-down shirts, midi-length dresses, so dresses that fall like below the knee but above the ankle, pointed toe shoes, ankle straps. Like there were certain trends that regardless of the aesthetic, regardless of the city the designer was from or the vibe they were going for, were pretty consistent. And I think it's because like a button down shirt can be a white simple button down shirt or it can be a neon floral, whatever button down shirt. So it's like things that you can kind of put your own spin on.

19:25I think those are what I would call like a staple trend because they can look so many different ways. But ultimately, they are things that go with a lot of different things. Whereas something that's more like a micro trend, I don't know, kind of like, you also see it like data-wise, they rise in popularity very, very quickly, like almost out of nowhere. And then they're gone just as quickly as they came. And so these things, like you might see it as a small percentage of one runway for one season. And that's kind of like it. Like I think about that with like the mob wife trend, for example. Yes.

19:56That was a millisecond in time. Yes. It like, I feel like I saw it on Instagram, one like news cycle and then never again. It went so fast versus the co-cat trend, which I feel like lasted months. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Mob wife was mob wife lasted like three weeks. That one was was insane. But that's the thing, because I feel like it's a very at the end of the day, it is a bit restrictive and people might maybe do feel like they need to buy new things. Whereas like, you know, if you already have a leopard motif in your closet or a button down shirt or, you know, a pair of jeans, like whatever that looks like to you, Like that's why I think the Western aesthetic did so well, because there were so many ways that you could put your spin on it.

20:35Whatever kind of cut of jean you're comfortable with, whether you want to wear black cowboy boots or brown cowboy boots, whether you don't want to wear boots at all. So I think the trends that are like much more accessible and play off of staples stay around for longer. Whereas a micro trend, like making people feel like they need to go buy something and then two weeks later it's out, quote, is like doesn't really make any sense. And it doesn't, I think, really help someone evolve their own personal style. I mean, raise your hand if you've been a cowgirl for Halloween just because you have things in your closet that worked.

21:07Again, I do think that there's a very stark difference between something that's trendy versus something that just comes in and out of our closet and we already have and can kind of make do with it. Like there's a big difference there. Would you not say it's like a staple or like your capsule wardrobe? I think a staple or a capsule is like a great pair of jeans, a black tee, things that you wear every day, things that are like the building blocks and foundations of your wardrobe. I wouldn't say that like my leopard print is a staple in my wardrobe. I do sometimes get comments that are like, like I posted something about the Burberry scarf.

21:41Love that. I love a good Burberry scarf. I got a lot of comments that were like, hello, I have been on this for years. Like I've had mine for years. Like this is nothing new. And I'm like, look, respect. You're ahead of your time. But I think, you know, there was a time in the public discourse where it was cheesy. Yeah, a little bit. Yes. By the way, I love Burberry. I've loved it through all of its pieces. You know, me too. I love Burberry. Even like we got married in London and I was like, should I get something from Burberry for this? Like to me, it's a classic heritage brand. Yeah. Sure. It's had different creative attractors over the time that's given it a different flair.

22:15But I still think as a brand, its ethos really resonates with me. Yeah. I'm very excited for maybe next year for it to maybe take new shape and have a new iteration. But yeah, let's be real. There was a point in time where the plaid brimberi was not quote unquote in style. It just wasn't. But same with like the Louis Vuitton never full. Like I feel like just something becomes so popular that it becomes cheesy and overdone. And then it kind of takes the backseat. And then once people have kind of forgotten enough about it, it's like, oh my God, yeah, of course. Like that was so chic. Or like I had one of those when I was younger and then it comes back.

22:52You're making the case for people who like are cleaning out their closet and they're like, do I keep this? We could come back in style. It's hard. It is really hard. I would say like there's a barometer of that. Like people are like, should I keep my wedge sneakers? And I'm like, burn them at the stake, babe. Oh my God. Wedge sneakers? You don't remember? Like the shape ups? Like the, you might be a little, like, cause you're 20, you graduated 2020. Yeah. So like 2012 to 2016, the Isabel Morant sneaker heel sneakers were huge. Oh, my gosh. It was the biggest deal in the world if you had those.

23:25I cannot imagine seeing those around town. Oh, they were everywhere. Really? They were everywhere. And then they were just like overdone or? Yeah. If I saw them now, I'd be like, we got to talk. Yeah. Like there are some things that just aren't coming back. But yes, I do think that like those classic brand emblems will always kind of come back into popular discourse. I don't think they're ever something that you should get rid of. What do you think was the most shocking trend from last year? I think drop waist dresses I was a little bit interested by just because it was such a specific silhouette and I didn't expect to see so much of that.

23:58I said that as well when we talked about it on the pod. I had said that it's hard to quantify that as a trend to me because that's a fit. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For a specific body type. It's something that you either feel good in or you don't. Yeah. But to make that trendy, I thought was a little unfair because some body types don't feel great in it. I agree. I agree with that. That's why I think some trends like, for example, the bubble skirt, the bubble skirt came and went like super quickly. That was like two weeks. And I think it's because a lot of people just if you don't appeal to a wide range of people or make a wide range of people feel comfortable, like your trend is not sticking.

24:31I was also, I remember something I posted earlier in the year, like March or April was about the comeback of black nail polish, which I personally very strongly stand by. But I was a little bit shocked by that just because it is, I think, one of those other things that people love to hate or love to say, oh, you know, I did this when I was 13, never again. And then when I look at the data, it's like, hmm, I think maybe some of you are doing it again. Do you feel like maybe some of those trends from our younger years. Skinny jeans, black jeans, black nails. Like, do you feel like some of those are like things that we just need to revisit to get it off our chest kind of in a way?

25:06Interesting. Like we love to hate it because obviously like everybody thinks about their 13 year old self and they're just like, I know. So cringe. But like maybe it's we need to scratch again. Yeah. And I think it's also like obviously you've changed so much since you were 13 and like your body has changed, your style has changed, your interests have changed. But like Like, so, you know, wearing a skinny jean the way you did when you were 13 looked one way. Right. But you can, like, style it differently or make it fit kind of who you are now. And so it's like, it's not like you have to dress exactly how you did.

25:37I mean, there's no way I, whatever. I mean, it's too embarrassing. But I do think it's interesting to revisit, like, little pieces of what we loved as kids and incorporate them into our personal style. And not be so big of a hater, except for me with skinny jeans. I'm not changing that stance, guys. You can wear them with a boot. Yes. But that's about it. Yes. That's about it. Okay, let's get into this year, which I'm very excited about. What in your mind do you think is going to be the top three trends of 2025? Ooh, top three. Okay, so I will say I don't think the Western aesthetic is going anywhere.

26:07I think that one will stick around. I think denim is just going to keep rising in popularity and cowboy boots are as well. If I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong, but I don't think it will go anywhere. I also think green will stick around a lot, but I think it'll look different than kind of like the lime green that we were so into this summer. I think it might look a bit like olive or emerald as well. But I think almost like green will be the new earth tone because green kind of is an earth tone. Like, I mean, it's seen in nature so often. So I do think that green will stick around. I think once everyone hopped on the train this summer, people will continue to do green.

26:44I like the green one because I feel like, you know, like the Charlie XCX green was not as palatable, but I can see it moving into popular culture in a way that feels a little bit more wearable for the average person. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, I definitely, you know, I also personally love green. Like my apartment is all white except for like some plants and like pops of green. Well, I think about that even across the board, like having just planned a wedding, everything is like white and green. Yeah. I feel like in interior design, that like sage green, like a sage green kitchen has just been like everywhere on my feet lately.

27:18I feel like green's really having a renaissance. And I agree that to me, I talked about this on an episode last year, talking about how green to me feels like a neutral in my closet. Yes. Like a olive green pair of pants to me is interchangeable with a pair of jeans. Yeah. And I think everybody needs to find those neutrals for themselves. Like it's OK if green is not one of them. But I do think next like this year it will be. Yeah. Very strong. And I think that's kind of what's happening with Navy rising in popularity now. I think it's like, OK, I don't know. I live in New York, So I always wear all black and like everybody's like, oh, yeah, like people in New York always wear all black.

27:52But I think people are trying to experiment with color. Like I think the Barbie press tour did wonders for pink. I think obviously the summer was was a huge time for green. I think now the Wicked press tours bring back both of those at the same time. But I think it's like people want to figure out how to incorporate more color, but in a way that feels like comfortable. So I am not about to go from an all black wardrobe to wearing neon green. Like that would feel very strange. Like my friends will think I'm having an identity crisis. but like something more muted or like I can play around with navy or I can play around with something like an olive green and figure out how I want to incorporate more color into my style.

28:25Fashion's always going to have a fixation with pink. Yeah. I think we went from like Valentino hot pink. Yes. Yes. To Barbie pink. Yes. To now wicked pink. Yes. Like I think we're always going to have some excitement about the color pink. Yeah. And I love pink. I love it. Yeah. It's a great color. It's good fun. I also think, okay, I think bag charms, Obviously, those have been like huge already, but I think those will get bigger because of how accessible, quote, they are. Like I understand bag charms like for Miu Miu are still very expensive if you just like look at the price flat on. But I think if you want to kind of like buy into a luxury brand or like, you know, feel like a luxury consumer, that's a very much more accessible price point than having to like buy a whole bag.

29:10Chanel for Holiday this year did a bag charm that was their mini fragrance. Oh, so you can hook it on to whatever bag you have and it would just pop up and be a fragrance. And it was so cute. And I think, you know, big brands like that are also riding on bag charms being a big thing. And I think they're just going to continue to evolve. But I also like how they're becoming utilitarian. That's the thing, like the creative things that you can do with it. And also like, you don't really have to change anything about your closet, but yeah, exactly. And it's like, if there's a new way you want to test out, like showing off your personal style or showing off your personality, it's a really good way to just kind of do it.

29:47It's easy. It's low risk. I feel like Coach really brought that back. And I do feel like Coach is having a major renaissance right now, especially with the like tote over the shoulder bag that they brought back. Yes. I feel like I'm seeing it everywhere. What does the data say? Anything? You know, I haven't looked at Coach in a while, but I remember even when I would walk around New York in like 2021, I think. 2021 or 2022, whenever they did the big campaign with JLo. But yeah, that was fun. And I was like, OK, here we go. It's coming. It's coming back. But I think their marketing team has done a phenomenal job and they've kind of like snatched the right people and done fantastic campaigns.

30:22I also think their runway is great and very interesting. The bag charms is definitely something that they should be credited for. But yeah, it's interesting. Like a lot of, I think, brands are kind of the same way that we were talking about the Neverfull or the Burberry scarf. Like you have J.Crew, Banana Republic, Abra Combi coach having huge comebacks. Major, major upgrade moments. Yeah, it's interesting. Burberry, which we talked about earlier, I think is going to have a huge year. What does the data say? So what the data says about Burberry, I looked at the Burberry data less than a week ago.

30:53And so I looked at both Burberry and then also like Burberry scarf, Burberry plaid, Burberry trench. Everything was increasing. I got a lot of comments that were like, Like, you know, have you not looked at the financials? Yes, I have looked at the financials. But like that. What? Because I've had a rocky couple of years. Does that matter? Well, that's the thing, because I feel like. Does it really matter? You have to let it. Give it a second. Like if people are going like it's rising in popularity now. Give it some time. And it will. I think so. I'm happy to be wrong. But like, I do think it will reflect in the sales numbers.

31:28But it's not going to happen overnight. And I think there were there are a lot of things that had already happened this year that are kind of setting Burberry up or like set the foundation for the scarf to start becoming more popular. Like plaids started rising a lot in popularity a couple of months ago. They kind of, I mean, it's a horrible name, but like the old money aesthetic, like, you know, that's been around for over a year and people are still talking about it. And I think Burberry is one of those kind of more old school heritage kind of really fits into that vibe. So I think the foundation is there.

31:57I'm curious to see what Burberry does with it. I would love to hear from your end, what is exciting you right now in fashion? and AI, especially there's such a big conversation about that. And you being so in the tech space, is there something specific that you're excited to see? I think it stresses some people out because I don't know. It's like, you know what? Me, my hands raised. Really stresses me out. I think there's a lot of ways that tech can be applied to the fashion industry in a way that it doesn't take away from the creativity and the artistry of fashion. I very much do not want to take away from that or do not believe in taking away from that.

32:30And I think when people hear about AI, they're like, okay, like a robot is going to design our clothes. And like I said, you know, earlier in our discussion, like, I just don't really think that's going to be the case. I think humans, especially in an industry that's so creative and, you know, requires a human touch will always be there. I think one of my favorite ways that tech is applied to fashion or to fashion brands is personalization. So like if I go onto a website and I'm logged in, like I'm a repeat consumer, you show me stuff that you know I like, you show me campaigns that you know I like, I think that's very interesting.

33:02Like, how can you take a company that's very big and operates in so many different countries with like millions of consumers and make it feel like you're just talking to me one-on-one? And I think that's something that like Gen Z really likes, Gen Z really craves. I absolutely love brands that are hopping onto TikTok trends. I think like Loewe is doing such a good job right now of that. This has been a frequent conversation on this podcast because I think it's so great and like such a standout. Yeah. It's a hit. Yeah. It deserves an Oscar. Like it's really great. Yeah. And so I like, I love that.

33:35I love, you know, social media as a way to kind of get people more like, I don't know, fashion has just not been as mass as it is now. And I think it's very interesting how like social media obviously is a tool to get people to learn more about fashion and connect with brands. So I love that. And I think LoEv is a perfect example. But I also like the use of tech to like democratize fashion. So nowadays, like if you do want to start a fashion brand, like obviously there, or if you do want to get into fashion, like it's not like there's no obstacles. but you know, there's a lot of things that you can do online.

34:02Shopify is wonderful. Like social media is free. So I do like, you know, innovations in technology as they kind of allow more people to enter fashion or access fashion or learn about fashion. I feel like definitely I used to think, you know, like I mentioned that fashion kind of had this big wall around it and that it was like for a select few. And that's when Alexander McQueen really, you know, like shattered that perspective for me. And it was just so eyeopening. And I think tech does a good job of that too. like even Gab Waller and Sourced By which is completely powered by AI is so such a great use of AI for what she's doing it doesn't scare me it's not like taking away from the creativity of fashion but I think it's a great implementation yeah thank you for coming on the show this was so Thank you for having me.

34:45Of course. I loved it.

35:28Thank you.