How Monday Swimwear's Tash Oakley and Devin Brugman Are Re-Imagining The Swimwear Industry and Helping You Find Your Perfect Fit

0:00The following podcast is a Dear Media Production. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. I hope you're all well and safe, especially to those of you who are tuning in from Los Angeles and are dealing with the effects of the Palisades and Eaton fires. It has been probably some of the craziest weeks of my life, and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment. There is so much devastation and so much loss, and I'm sending all of my love and strength to anyone who has been affected and is listening to this pod right now. If there is any way that I can be of service, whether it's boosting a fundraiser, donating, volunteering, or even just being an ear for you to talk to, please know that I'm here to support in any way.

0:47I shared last week that my family lost our family home to the Palisades Fire. It's a house that we've lived in for 15 years. My mom and little sister lived there, and it truly was the nucleus of our family in so many ways. It felt like a magical house and was one of my favorite places in the world and had so many memories that feel core to who my family is. We've had weddings there, engagement parties, welcomes nieces and nephews, birthdays, holidays, you name it, we're in this house. So it just feels like truly a massive loss. My family has lived in Malibu for 35 years before I was born. And to see that beach that we grew up on just almost wiped off the map has been really hard to process.

1:34And I know I'm not alone in that feeling. There is so much devastation across Los Angeles that I know we're all collectively grieving together. I have to say a huge thank you to so many of you because I have received so many messages from this community of love and support and prayer. And it's really held me up during this challenging time. And there were also so many of you that sent me so many great anecdotes that I've shared on the pod over the years of moments where I've talked about that house. Even, you know, three months ago, I was talking about my family being there for Thanksgiving and all of our traditions and my Oreo banana cream pie.

2:11And I still can't fathom that it's not there anymore. But just being reminded of all those good memories has been so helpful. So thank you again to all of you. I love this community so much. And I'm really, really grateful to all of you that have reached out to hold my hand. It has meant the world. Lauren Ireland, who's the co-founder of Summer Fridays, shared something recently that felt so right. And she said, the hurt is big, but togetherness is bigger. And LA has become a different city in so many ways over the last few weeks. I've seen people come together in ways that I could have never imagined.

2:45I've seen brands that I love donate goodie bags. I've seen friends out and about every single day collecting donations, buying essential goods, running donation drives, and really making a difference in their communities. I had the opportunity to volunteer a few times last week at Baby to Baby, and they were packing hygiene kits for so many people that lost their homes. There is so much going on in the fabric of LA right now that gives me so much hope for how we're going to rebuild. For those of you who are looking for ways to get involved and help the relief from the wildfires, there is a wildfire relief highlight on my Instagram page.

3:23It has a lot of different options from donation opportunities, volunteer opportunities, donation drives, GoFundMes, you name it. Big or small, LA needs so much help right now. I've also always said that being of service is truly the best medicine. And in these really hard times, the only thing we have is community. Again, the hurt may be big, but the togetherness is bigger. And I've just held that so close to my heart this week. I love you guys. Thank you again for all of the love and support. And if there's anything that I can do, please don't hesitate to reach out. Releasing today's episode feels a little bit kismet because not only was this recorded pre-fires, and we actually talked about my mom and Malibu, but these are two girls who I'm so inspired by, who give back to their community and are the ultimate beach girls.

4:10For those of you who don't know Tosh Oakley and Devin Brugman, they founded the swimwear blog A Bikini A Day back in 2012. They were probably all over your Instagram feeds at the time and are still all over your Instagram feeds because they took their passion for swimwear and turned it into their expertise and launched Monday Swimwear, which is, of course, everyone's favorite swimwear brand. In today's episode, we talk about their mission to reimagine the swimwear industry, swimwear trends, working with your best friend, building your community, and so much more. Also, I just have to shout out Tosh and Dev because they have truly been pillars of the community.

4:44They were two of the first people that I was talking to when the Palisades fire broke out, finding ways to give back to help their community and just spark a little bit of joy during a really hard time. I am truly honored to be a fan of theirs and love Monday swimwear, but I'm also even more honored to be a friend of theirs and call them family. I hope you guys love today's episode as much as I do. Be well, stay safe. I'm here if anybody needs anything. Let's go get dressed with Tosh Oakley and Devin Brugman. Hello. This is so fun. I know. This does not feel like we're today. I know. Devin walked in the room and she was like, I'm so happy we're doing this.

5:19No, you don't understand. I'm always nervous for podcasts. And I was like, it's Libs. I'm not nervous at all. That first one together. Yay! So we can be comfortable together. Crazy. I actually was doing prep for this pod and I was like, okay, Devin, there are Devin pods and there are Tosh pods, but there are no Devin and Tosh pods. Yeah, it's ridiculous. I don't know how that's happened. We came together for you. I'm so honored. What a trio. What a trio. But I mean, I get why you're on the other side of the world. Yeah. Yeah. No one can ever tell me that they have issues with their co-founder or whatever, because I'm like, if these two can run a business from around the world on different time zones, I don't want to hear about your complaints.

5:57I will say, though, what we have is very special and unique. So very, yeah, it's understandable when others, you know, partnerships don't work out the way ours do, because I think it's a very rare thing. It really is. But that being said, the daylight savings this time of the year, I actually like because she wakes up. I know I'm probably the only person that's ever said that. Yeah. But Because I get an extra hour with the Australia team. So it's not like it goes so deep into my afternoon. The daylight saving things I'm not going to forgive you for because as an adult who like goes to bed at like 930 now and like is healthy, like it starts to get dark at 430 and I hate life.

6:33No, that's great. I'm in bed by seven. Yeah, I'm happy for you. Like I'm really, really happy for you. Insane. You two do have something very special. That's for sure. And I actually remember when I first met you guys, my mom was literally your biggest fan. No way. I love her. I love the mom fans. My mom is, I like to call her Malibu Barbie. She'll probably hate that if you heard it. Mom, don't listen to this episode. She lives in Malibu, blonde, surfer, like so hot and so cool. She's the hottest thing I've ever seen. She's the Monday girl. She is the Monday girl. And I remember when you guys were doing a bikini a day, she was like, have you seen these girls?

7:09Oh, that's so cute. And I'm like, mom, I actually just met them, like had a night out with them in New York. Oh, my God. I love that story. It's amazing. But you guys really, to me, were the original girls. Girls, two best friends who like came together, built a business, were kind of each other's like opposites almost in a way aesthetically, like the blonde, the brunette. I know. Sometimes I want to do the brunette for a minute. I'm like, I just can't. No, you can't. And not. You cannot. Because I'm the blonde and Devin's the brunette. I think I would like, I would have an earthquake. Everyone would just unfollow me.

7:40It's so funny because we're opposites, but we're exactly the same in a lot of ways. Like we're the same height, we're the same shoe size, we're the same pant size, we're the same top size. And then like our features are also weirdly similar. I know it's hard to tell, but in photos and stuff, I think we complement each other. We have the same kind of big smile and like the symmetry of our faces or something is really, a lot of people always think we're sisters, even though I don't really understand that. But because we're the same height, kind of same hair, you know, like it's all kind of anyway.

8:14But completely different. Platonic summits. Yes. 100%. Yeah. What I loved about that era was, and what I love the most about what you guys do, you guys to me are the blueprint of two people who became experts in something and started a brand from it. Like I have so many friends and peers and colleagues who will come and tell me about this brand idea that they have. But the one thing I say now is not like, what's your marketing plan? Or like, is it a niche thing? Or like, is there a white space for it? It's not that. I say, what's your experience that will make me believe you to buy it from you?

8:48And I think that was and is the success of Monday. Like you guys have tried on every single bikini. So what was it after that era that made the two of you come together and be like, it's time to start a brand? It was so organic for us. We literally lived in swim every day. Like you said, we tried on thousands of bikinis. and at a certain point we were like we know exactly what is missing from this industry and we were like let's do it ourselves and there was a lot missing at that time oh yeah the swim industry you know 12 years ago when we started a bikini a day was there was nothing you would know like it was there was a couple of brands that we loved like our girls from hawaii acacia and miko and those girls were doing it right but at that time unless you were getting the brazilian brands and not just for the small cuts, but just for the fabrics and the fits and all those things.

9:39But none of them still, you know, had the things that would fit the right cup size or different body shapes or really, truly be comfortable. A lot of them weren't even selling suits separately. Yeah, they were coming together. So I needed an extra large top and an extra small bottom. So I'm like, I'm going to spend$400 on a bikini just to get this, you know, it was so wrong. And you would go into Diane's in Santa Monica to shop for a bikini, which we love to Diane's. But yeah, the industry has definitely changed a lot. And it just really came from what I love about our story so much and what I think is becoming like one of the biggest mistakes these days is people are really in it for the wrong reasons, as you'd know.

10:18And a lot of the time it's like, I want to own my own business. I want to make a lot of money. You know, there's all these reasons that I'm like, I personally do think are the wrong reasons. I think that we were just so obsessed with this entire industry and this topic and swimwear in general. And it just made sense for us. And we were just having so much fun. And for us, it was like, if something comes of this, that's great. But if not, we would never have, you know, missed a day that we spent building it because it was just so much fun for us. And that we always said, some girls have bags, some girls have shoes.

10:50We love bikinis, you know, and it was like, just so cute to us that this even turned into what it is now. And we're still shocked, to be honest. Every day we're like, who would have thought that this would turn into this? But that's what comes when you just stick to something you're so passionate about and you really just work really, really hard, which is we did. Yeah. And we also never cared what anybody thought, which was such a beautiful thing at that time. There wasn't so much pressure with Instagram and we just went for it. There's a video that Tink's posted. I think it was this summer that I remember watching and being like, yes.

11:23And she was putting on the green knit dress from you guys. Yes. And literally got on there and was like, Tosh and Dev know how to make clothes that women want to wear. Yeah, I remember that. They know how to flatter the body and they know what I want to wear to the beach. And like, it just was so 100 % true. And yes, swimwear is one thing. but the clothing that you put on over swim feels like a whole other world. And both of you have always had, again, we're going back to this like twin flame moment where like aesthetically you're in a similar world, but you both have very distinct styles from each other.

11:57How does that work when you're designing a collection? Like how much of your own personal style are you bringing to the table? It's so great that we are different because I definitely think that Devin has more of the, you know, trend 90s kind of cool girl aesthetic. And then I'm definitely more of the classic, you know, classic, like I'm wearing the Chanel sneakers. She's wearing the New Balance. Like that's always us, you know, describes us so well. And I think you're a lot more maybe New York and I'm a lot more probably Europe. And it's so nice when we're designing the collections because we don't want our collections to be trend based.

12:32We want you to be able to wear the swim summer after summer. We think that, you know, the European woman is a big influence to us because they're so timeless and so chic and elegant. And, you know, I feel like when we started Monday, the look at the beach was like denim cutoffs and a really ugly tank top. And then you've got like the fluoro bikini underneath. And the whole look, sometimes we still go to the beach and we're like, if only we could dress her head to toe in Monday. Like she would just look amazing. And I think that, You know, I always bring in the more classic kind of timeless kind of inspiration and chicness to it.

13:07And then Devin will bring in, you know, like our viral Exuma hat. That's that little bit of a cowgirl moment that I wouldn't have designed, but brings in a little element of like, you know, something a bit more trendy and cool, but still timeless. Yeah, exactly. We never do anything that we do. Exactly. Every accessory that we add to the collection, it's really important to us that the materials feel cohesive. Nothing feels junky. Everything has a lot of thought behind. It's very intentional. Everything matches back to one another. And I think that there, we call it kind of the Monday look where we don't want our customer to just buy the swimwear.

13:41We really genuinely want them to have that head to toe Monday look where you have the oversized, it's called our Paloma beach bag, you know, foldable beach bag that you can bring in your suitcase, but it matches back to the straw of our hat. And then you've got the sarong and the open shirt. And like the whole look is very, very obvious and very Monday. And I think a lot of brands are now kind of replicating that look, but that's okay because we always find a way to stay ahead of, you know, of everyone else in that way. And we have so many ideas at all time. We could be designing for this brand for the rest of our lives.

14:12And just that Monday look is what we love. And sometimes we go to the beach and we see someone that's like, I don't know, gotten one of the knit dresses but paired it with something that we don't think it should be paired with. And we're like, oh, my God. I know. It drives us crazy. Like, please just buy the look. Please, because the look is just like so put together and chic and monochromatic and it's matching back and it's just like makes everyone look so elegant. But also we design this stuff for us. We are our main customer. So Tosh and I have lived this beach travel lifestyle for so long that we know exactly what we need on vacation.

14:49What will you be hot in? What will you be comfortable in? What do you want covered? You know, when you're walking along at the pool in front of everyone feeling exposed, like you're on a, you know, Victoria's Secret runway and with overhead lighting, you're just not feeling great. You want your sarong and your little slides. And like, what is it that you... We've had all these moments for so many years that now we're like, we know exactly what it is. And then even going into the active, it's all these things. What are you bringing on vacation? We've got it all for you. Down to the mini mirrors that go in the bag.

15:19Yeah. And the gouache. And the gouache. I'm actually thinking back to an episode that I did a few months ago with an influencer model. She's absolutely stunning. And she just became a mom. And we were talking about this idea of, you know, motherhood making her feel like she can't dress as sexy as she used to. And I think about all these cultural norms and like expectations that we put on women when it comes to dressing sexy. and in this conversation I've been thinking a lot about like your style evolution but also what it must have taken the both of you as business women to like yes still have this like sex appeal bathing suit swimwear brand but then also like sit in an office with people you're like almost trying to wholesale too yeah yeah so do you guys have any advice for women who like maybe straddle that line of like hey I love dressing sexy because I can like I want to I love my body and it shouldn't be deeper than that, but then also maybe feel like they can.

16:17Yeah. I think that while we're all young and just gorgeous and like my mom always says that you'll look back at one day and just be like, God, look how young and gorgeous I was. And we pick ourselves apart so much. And in my head, I always have her in the back of my head. And she was Miss Australia and she was a businesswoman and had her own real estate agency, but she always striked the balance between being really sexy and feminine, but also being an absolute boss. And I just looked up to her so much. It was kind it's kind of like an Elle Woods, but Kim K, but I don't know all these women that like, I think you can be smart and I think you can be, you know, respected, but also be super feminine and sexy and all of those things.

16:56And I think there's something so beautiful about a sexy, elegant woman who has brains and is just the whole package, you know? And oh my gosh, you're like blown away. You know, people are. That's how I feel when you guys walk in the room. I'm like, oh my gosh, wow. Your mom being Miss Australia makes a lot of sense. It makes perfect No, no, no. I feel like I just. That's all you had to say. Podcast over. Yeah, love it. There we go. Yeah, I just feel like that's that is such a thing that I wish I could change about fashion right now. Yeah, I think a lot of women as well with larger cup sizes, particularly get really insecure about their chest and having their boobs out and having their breasts out.

17:32And what will people think of me and all these things? And some people are like, oh, mine are as perky as yours and all these different things. And we keep all of that in mind when we design Monday because, you know we want to show skin but not too much so like if we're if we're doing something that's you know doesn't have a sleeve then it's long or you know if it's got a very low front then it's long with a sleeve and like we want to just show the right amount of skin balance yeah where it still is elegant and you know beautiful and I think also where you wear those things is obviously like we're not going to go wear that to Chateau Marmont here in LA but you know you could when we're in St.

18:06Barts, anything goes. And we're, you know, basically wearing like tea strings under our like beachwear and no one cares. We're having like a Lily Rose Depp moment. It's also like so much about confidence, you know? And when you see somebody on the beach, and I know this is so cliche, but anytime we see a beautiful woman on the beach rocking some thong bikini or something, she's just looking so hot and she's feeling herself. And there's something special when you're on a beach in that environment where you're glowy and, you know, You feel the salt on your skin. Yeah, it's a really special feeling.

18:37And we're just obsessed with women. I just have to say. We are. Women are just such a force. They really can be the whole package, and they're so inspiring, and they can do it all. Since we started, it's no secret that we're just obsessed with women. I mean, well, because we always, as long as you're beautiful inside, I genuinely believe that you are beautiful on the outside. And you find that thing inside someone, and then all of a sudden you look at them, and you're like, oh my God, you're just so beautiful. you know, like, and it's really to do with what's within and that confidence and where you're at on your own journey.

19:09And it really like, you know, resonates with people, I think. So I think that sexiness is not just about what you wear. It's about how you feel. It's about who you are as a person and all of those things. And I think that's what I love about, you know, you being so much about style and doing a podcast about style is because it is something that like shows someone's personality so much. And it is something that's fun and it makes people happy. And it's like, Like it's something that in a world where everything has become about how everyone looks all the time, I still think it's important to remember that it's not about feeling like intimidated by the fact that someone looks beautiful or likes expensive things or wants to wear a designer bag.

19:46Sometimes it is just, again, like let's go back to that Carrie Bradshaw thing of just like expressing yourself or like feeling excited about something that you've worked really hard for or, you know, just those little motivations that it doesn't have to be materialistic or, you know, self-obsessive. It's just about being a girl and having fun and all those things. It's how you move through life. I had someone, one of my favorite things said on the podcast last year was a friend of mine saying that personal style is not just what you put on every day. It's how you treat your friends. It's how you move through the world.

20:17It's like inspired by a relationship with your mom or, you know, a great coworker. Like, it's so deeply tied to your beliefs and your morals that it's almost, it's so fun for me to dive deep into what people are wearing and how they're wearing it. because it's not just the material. It's so much deeper. You touched on cup size a little bit and I want to dive into that because I often send people to your guys' platforms when they're asking me about finding the right fit. Yes. I am tiny. But we have things for you too. Yes. I know. I actually... And that's a common thing that we don't want people to think just because we have the larger cup size.

20:50Like we are designing for the smaller cup sizes while we always have you guys in mind. Yeah. No, I have my style from you guys and I have it in every color. I have the... Barbados you like. Barbados. She knows. Barbados is amazing. Of course. And then I also, I'm actually quite specific of swimwear. Yeah. I don't like strings. They look funny on me. I'm almost such a petite frame that the strings, I feel overwhelm me a little bit. That makes sense. I like the one that you guys have with the adjustable. Oh, capri. The capri. Yeah, I have all the capri bottoms and the Barbados top and that's my set.

21:19Perfect. Yeah. And I think it was such an important journey for me in finding that, as cliche as it sounds, because it's how I have now felt good on the beach being so petite. I've like found my shape that works for my body. We actually have a little like slogan for that that we call the Monday moment because It was my Monday moment. We really feel like you unpackage it and you try it on at home. You're not in a store. You're not feeling weird in weird lighting. You're in the comfort of your own home. And you try on the swimsuit and you just go, oh my God, finally. And you just actually feel good.

21:50And you're like, oh my God, now I get what Tash and Deb have been talking about. You know, like I do feel really good in this. I feel comfortable and sexy. And that's the Monday moment. Yeah, that's how I found mine. But you are both of you talk about fit a lot. So what's your best advice if there are people listening right now who feel like they haven't had their Monday moment yet? Yeah, well, we so for me, I grew up literally having to have a woman in Hawaii hand sew my bikinis for me because literally nothing fit me. And the swim that did fit would look like some hideous maternity bra. And I'd always look at suits that everybody else was wearing being like, I could never fit that.

22:29You know, their extra large wouldn't fit me. It would look like a medium. So we talk a lot about fit for a larger cup size because it's really something that we're proud of and we're still working to perfect. But But we have so many incredible styles that suit a larger cup size that are supportive and that are adjustable at the back and over the shoulder, which was a big thing because, you know, I need to tie it as tight as I can around the back and then still have the support. Well, you're a 32 bust. I'm a 34. And you're a double D. We're basically almost the same size now, double D. And so we need it to be completely adjustable everywhere.

23:10Like a lot of people will just go for it with a larger cup size. Al Palma, which is a tie bikini because they're like, that's the only thing that works for me. Because it's an over the shoulder pull up. It's adjustable. Yeah. You know, it's fully adjustable. But we always encourage people to try new styles because everything is so adjustable. And keeping in mind that just because you're, you know, a large cup size doesn't mean that you're a large around the bust. Or you might be a medium cup size, but an extra large around the bust. and we just don't understand how people make clasp bikinis. And, you know, every single one of our bikinis is a tie back.

23:45And some people will be like, will you ever do clasp ones? And I'm like, no. Because not everyone is the same size and you need adjustability. And like Devin said, we're always working on perfecting the fit. Like we're never ending fittings in our office with all different cup sizes. And we don't want the swimwear to feel like bras. We do still want it to feel like a bikini and swimwear and feel light. and also just like feel comfortable on you because when you have underwires digging in, it all adds to your mood at the beach. It's, you know, when you've got things hurting your neck and all of those different things or digging in on your side, it makes you, it affects your mood.

24:18It also starts from the shopping experience itself, which is how our V range came to life because the size extra large just sounded so bad. And your V range is voluptuous. So V is for voluptuous. It goes V, double V, triple V. So very voluptuous and very, very voluptuous. So I think just having that mentality from the beginning that you're not an extra large, you're voluptuous. And also it's sad to think that anyone would like feel bad about themselves just because someone has poorly designed something to make them not feel comfortable in their body. I think so many times women are uncomfortable at the beach or within themselves because they don't realize that they, you know, the digging in and all of those things, it's not just about you not feeling comfortable physically.

25:05It's like mentally, you actually are also like, why do I look like shit today? Or like, why am I like feeling like I have a huge muffin top? And it's like, you don't have a huge muffin top. You're wearing a bikini that is digging into what are your beautiful curves that are actually really beautiful and something to be celebrated. But unfortunately, you're just not feeling it because the things that you're wearing are not accentuating those things in the right way. So and on the beach, we're half naked. So that's when it's the most important to have everything, you know, fit, right, fitting and feeling great, supported, unsupported.

25:38The most vulnerable place you'll ever be is at the beach in a bikini, because even with lingerie, we can turn down the lights and light some candles. You know what I mean? But at the beach, you have no control. So you need your sarong. You need all your things to just feel really comfortable and beautiful. And we also do always say like and since a bikini a day, we've really been about like going to the beach shouldn't be this big thing that makes you feel stressed it's actually meant to be like really a beautiful relaxing happy place and you know we're putting all this you know emphasis on how you look and what's going to make you feel comfortable but the truth is you should just be running around and swimming and having fun and when we go there we're just getting the salt on our skin and the sun on our face and we just feel happy you know what i mean it's a happy place for us it's all about that moment and i think we love that that comes through with the brand.

26:26You know, like we love that people sense that. I think you guys do. And I mentioned this earlier in the episode. You guys do beach styling so well. Thank you. What is some of your advice or if you guys have little ticks and trips, tips and tricks. There we go. Or like, is it a is it a way you're styling your hair? Is it a glam tip? Like, what is it that gets you beach ready? There's a lot. Yeah, I think like the hair and makeup for us, we really try to keep it natural at the beach. Even in our Monday campaigns, we just do our own makeup. Very minimal. It basically comes off throughout the day.

27:00No one's wearing a lot of makeup. I think you really just need to keep it natural and keep your SPF dewyness. A nice SPF base and a dewy balm. What's your go-to SPF, both of you? It depends. Yeah, mine, I'm using it now as foundation. I just use the Elastin. Do you know Elastin? Yeah, they're great. And then for body, we love Kopari. Oh, wow. I've seen that. And I feel like I used to use their lip balm, but I have to check that out. It's like an SPF shimmer. A great one. A beautiful SPF shimmer. Which that is a very big part of why we look good. Yeah. The SPF shimmer. You cannot go to the beach with like dry, crusty skin.

27:35No, honestly, that's like maybe 50 % of it. Yeah, people are always like, you're so glowing and golden. But we like moisturize twice a day. We're always oiled up. Oiling and like we're like little babies that are oiled up at all times. But we're very strict about the SPF. So when I say oil, we're not like suntanning with oil. Yeah, it's like SPF oil. But then I think from a really young age for us, you know, when we first started traveling to Europe or even before then, we were just so inspired by the European woman and how effortless, but relaxed, but put together. You know, there's all these things about kind of how they dress that are opposing ideas.

28:10You know, they're so put together and the linens just look so beautiful. But then they're very relaxed and effortless and very natural, but like elegant. And like just all these things that combine. that's really our inspiration when we get dressed for the beach is just like yeah balancing all those things and we do like to make a statement we don't just like to like go to the beach wearing whatever we love to like put a look together and we have a lot of fun with it and we're very specific about the fabrics we use for beachwear too very like i said everything is really really intentional and we're like anything we bring out we're gonna have to be wearing it and we hate wearing something that we don't like like i cannot tell you how much we won't wear it Even if sometimes we do something and then we realize we didn't like it as much as we thought, we'll immediately nip it from the line because we'll be like, this was not what we thought it was going to be.

28:56And we put in so much effort and every now and then something will get through. And it drives crazy. That we're talking to our design team and our buyers and stuff. We're like, no, this is not it. Get rid of it immediately. Like, it's not. If we're not going to be comfortable wearing it, it actually just won't even sell. so we're really really specific about the linens because what people don't realize about linen is there's very structured linens that crease really easily and they're beautiful to wear like I feel like reformation and brands like that have beautiful linens that you steam it and you wear the linen dress out and it looks amazing yes and you'll wear it to a wedding but you are not going to want to wear that same dress to the beach yeah so with our resort wear and beach wear we actually want it to be resort and beach wear we're not bringing out things that are like you know some people will be like, why are all these dresses sheer with all of our beautiful crochet lurex knits?

29:43Because we're like, because it's beachwear, you know, you're meant to wear a bikini under it. It's meant to be a bit fun and sexy and beachy. And we do a little bit that kind of leans towards the more ready to wear side, but you still should always be able to wear it to the beach. And with the linens and now cottons and all of these different fabrics, it's very, very important that if you pack it in your suitcase, a lot of the time you can pull it out without steaming it and just shake it off, put it on like sarongs and everything. But if you've got really structured, like stiff linens, they're not going to look good.

30:14They're going to be so creased and horrible looking. And we're so impatient when we travel. There's no way. You're like me, the beach now. Yeah, exactly. We just need to pull it straight out of the suitcase and walk down. So everything's really with that in mind. And we're really, really picky with our fabrics. But I do think that's like such an interesting kind of white space that you guys filled. I think about before Monday Swim, where was I looking for beachwear only, not a knit dress that I was buying from somewhere else and repurposing it for the beach. There was the Missoni of the world.

30:42There was the vitamin A of the world, but like nothing that felt younger, affordable and exciting. Yeah. And I think that there's a lot of brands that you can find a piece from that you love, but it's rare. You know, I have a few brands in the ready to wear category that I know I can go and find 10 things from at any time that I'd happily take home. But a lot of the time you'll see you go shopping and you are lucky to find one thing in a store that you like. Once and if and when we do have Monday stores, people are going to go in. And even when we've had like pop-ups at the Grove, people go in and cry because they go in and they don't even know what to do because there's so many things they want to buy.

31:19Everything fits so well. That was me at the Grove pop-up. That was me. I was like... Somebody else actually cried and then made us cry. That's so sweet. It's like finally finding something. You're just like, I love everything. I feel so good. But it's just so nice that like we actually wear every I always say if we didn't own the brand I all my money would be gone to the brand yeah because I would just have to buy everything I wouldn't know what to like I wouldn't know how to choose do you think it's also good do you think that's why Monday the success of it has been so prominent because people just find that Monday moment for themselves like oh I can go on the beach and I can feel really good we have a really high return customer rate so our return customer rates like 50 to 60 percent which is extremely and for people that don't know that's not the amount of returns that we get that's the customers that keep coming back for more and we've always had this intention with monday where we want it to be the calvin klein of swim obviously calvin klein has their own swim but when you're a calvin klein guy or girl you just keep buying the calvin klein's the underwear you know what i mean like the guys just buy the same box every year and we want it to be like every summer okay i'm going on my trip what has monday got for me.

32:26And we really want it to be something that 20 years from now, you're still coming back to Monday. And I think what's made it so successful is that I think we have done a good job at striking the balance between a commercial Instagram brand and something that feels a little bit more elevated and aspirational. And we are very, very intentional with everything we do with marketing to make sure that, you know, we're appealing to all customers in that way. We don't want to pigeonhole ourselves as being too Instagrammy. You know, like we show a little bit about the high end of scenes, but we're not constantly editing reels of everything we do and uploading on the brand, you know, and then we have our more high end, really, you know, special marketing moments that are very, you know, elevated and branded really beautifully.

33:08And we spend a lot of money and put a lot of time and effort and our teams work very, very hard to create those moments. And I think that that's what's made it successful, apart from the fact that no brand can survive unless the product is genuinely good. Yeah, exactly. The quality. I mean, I still have suits from our first collection we ever did. My favorite marketing PR moment for you guys was, what was it like seeing Martha Stewart on the cover of a magazine in Monday? I think I would have passed out. I lost my marbles. Yeah. She's an icon. And now I watch her Netflix thing and now I'm even more obsessed.

33:37Oh my God, they showed it. I was like, yeah. I literally have it printed in my home office. But isn't that also a testament to like how everyone can wear Monday? You know, like some, we run into, like, let's say your mom, for example, we run into so many moms and they'll be like, I want it for my daughter. And then I'm like, what about you? Yeah. I'm like, we have so many things for you. You would look stunning in Monday. And she looks so good. She looks incredible. She's just such an icon. We were so happy. I was like, I don't care about any of the Supermalls. Martha. Even when Margot Robbie wore it when she was pregnant, we were like, oh my God.

34:06Oh my God. We never get over seeing these iconic women wearing the brand. It's really cool. I remember seeing a few years ago, you were organizing your closet. and all of your bathing suits. I remember you opening your drawer one day and they were all perfectly packaged. And it was like this beautiful rainbow. And I was like, okay, I'll get there eventually, maybe. And both of you are actually in renovation process right now. You just redid your closet. You're building your dream home in Australia, which I'm going to make a trip over. Yeah, oh my gosh, dream house is going to be crazy. But tell me as like designers and as people who obviously have insane swim collections, Like what's in those closets right now that you're like, how did I live with?

34:48How did I survive without that thing? I'll let you just answer this one because you're an organization freak. I am. Well, firstly, I wasn't alone. Whatever she does, I do. So that's the same. There's this incredible girl named Kelly. Okay. In LA. In LA. Okay. So I can't take credit for this. Okay. She did it. Okay. Thank you, Kelly. But I had the vision. I redid. I had the room and it's one of my favorite rooms in my house because it overlooks my backyard. and it's you can see all the trees and there's all these beautiful old spanish windows that open up and i was like something has to happen here so we built the closet around the windows and it's for me it's all about the dividers and the labels i'm a big label girl so the sunglasses divider all of the jewelry dividers then i have do you have like the felt down on the drawers but everything doesn't I think the baskets are a big thing too.

35:41Yes, baskets. When she did my LA closet, she came and did mine, which just changed my life. And what's nice about mine and your closet is that we're not sharing them with guys. Oh my God. You guys? Don't worry, guys. My house, I obviously share with Theo and I'm like, why do you have so much stuff in here? You should have none. And then now LA closets are just our closets. So it's like all just the girl stuff. It's a dream. I asked a family friend who's been married for like 50 years. I was like, what's the key to marriage? And she looks at me and she goes, honey, separate closets, separate bathrooms.

36:14Yes, that's, I mean, honestly, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to be like, you're going to have to. There's no room for a guy. Take the guest room for your closet. The shed outside, honey. But when she redid my LA closet, she put baskets like at the tops of the closets in any open voids that things were just kind of hanging around in and then put labels on the baskets. And it made everything look so neat and so clean. and just all our little bikini drawers and accessories and things are just not out and about everywhere. It just looked really. I will say if you're going to redo your closet, just make sure there's extra, extra room for shoes because I've already filled mine up.

36:47Yeah, for sure. I actually think the one thing that drew me to your closet and something that I'm struggling with with mine right now that I'm about to redo, which is insane because I just did my closet lighting. Oh, yeah. The LED strips. The LED strips. In case you didn't notice. They love lighting these galets. Even if it's lighting up shoes, anything. But like the LED strips that light up each shelf. And also the lighting that you like put in the room. Like it should be warm. It should be nice. And like even if your closet is in your bedroom, you have the smallest closet in the world. Doesn't matter.

37:17Like even get an LED mirror that maybe brings warm light into your room. It changes your literal self-esteem. If you have bad lighting in your house, you will never be happy. Tell her how you're designing your overhead lighting. I changed the light bulbs to be like the lighter, more yellow tone. We had like fluorescent lights. And I was like, Alex, I think I'm dying. Yeah. Like, go up, take a ladder and change the 30 light bulbs right now. It drove you mad. It did. It drove me mad. I felt like I was in hospital. Yeah. Now we have like a warm. Oh, no. I'm even like when we're designing our house right now and I've worked with the architects and interior designers.

37:49I've been like, I don't want one light over someone's head in front of a mirror or like anywhere that someone's standing in the mirror, put the light behind them. You don't want to, I don't want my guests coming over and they go into the bathroom and look at themselves and go, oh my God. I look cool. I look sexy at Tasha's house. I'm in such a good mood. Tasha's house makes me like so hot. I'm going to go there again. Yeah. And we will definitely be replicating that concept in anything we do in the future with Mondays. Oh, good love. Yeah. I love that. That's fun. Don't worry about that. Yeah.

38:19Okay. I want to close out the show by getting both of your ideas on some fun swimwear trends for 2025. What are you guys excited about for this year? Okay, well, I think that the two-tone trend is definitely going to continue, which I'm excited about because our Clovelly top and Clovelly one-piece, which was one of the first designs we ever made, has literally gone viral. Every single fast fashion brand is now copying it, which I'm just flattered. Flattery. Just take it. And we can spot the replicas a mile away, everybody. I know. Don't tag us in the dupes. But anyway, if you want the dupe, get the dupe.

38:53but nothing's as good as the real thing. Anyway, the two-tone is continuing and that's a major moment. I love it. It's such a like Chanel classic. Very chic. Feminine, but you know, very put together look. I feel like hardware is really something that people are, I think people are just wanting their swim to become more elevated, more luxurious feeling and a little bit more accessorized. Whereas in the past it was really, really like no hardware at all, really. A lot of our styles are seamless with no hardware and that was really a trend. And now people are wanting more hardware and that kind of Chanel-esque look.

39:27I think we're like getting dressed up. Yeah. That was kind of always my pain point was like, I like to dress up. I'm always like kind of in a look. And then I go to the beach and I'm like, well, here I am in my swimsuit. Feeling a bit awkward. Yeah. Feeling a bit underdressed. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, how can we spice it up a bit? Love that. So much of the swimwear industry is now really going for the beautiful swimwear dresses and the crochets and all of that is so much fun to see. So I'm really looking forward to seeing, you know, what other brands are doing. And then I'm really excited about the silver that's coming out.

40:01Yeah. Next year. It's going to be bananas. I can't even. Yeah. I'm really in a silver moment right now. Silver is having its moment. It really is. And I'm so here for it. I never owned a single. But also, you know, the mixed metals. So our silver is coming out with the gold hardware. So we're mixing, you know, and we love the mixed metals look. beyond so fun yeah but 2025 is going to be like literally insane we've designed up until the end of the year and i i it's hard to like always be excited about what we're doing right now because we're always in two minds where we're like oh my god i can't believe what's coming out now and we're so excited but we also know what's going to come out and we're like it's just killing us but this summer is going to be it's a good problem next summer i guess is going to be crazy yeah i'm so excited yeah yay i can't wait to see it guys thank you for doing this i always feel I feel so much gratitude when I have friends that come on the show.

40:53Yeah, it's nice. It just feels like such a fun moment, and it's such a great conversation. And I have admired both of you for so long. Well, same to you, and you're always family to us. We love you so much. Thanks for doing the show. Thank you.

41:20Thank you.

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