How the NFL Became Fashion’s New Runway

0:01Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host Liv. I'm so excited to be bringing you guys a very special Super Bowl episode. Thank you all for waiting 24 hours for it. I got to sit down with fashion and sports journalist Daniel Yall Miller, who was at the Super Bowl. He is the author of Sportsverse, which is a fashion and sports sub stack. It's one of my favorites. Such a great read. I highly recommend you all subscribe. And we got to talk about what felt like a really major moment for fashion and sports. And honestly, I think one of fashion's biggest investments in sports yet.

0:36We get into that amazing halftime show, including Bad Bunny's custom Zara look, and how Adidas absolutely won the weekend without having to do a commercial. Plus, we cover everything that happened around the game, like the Tom Brown and Abercrombie fashion shows, to brand activations, and all the moments that happened off the field. We also talk about why sports has really taken center stage for fashion lately. So many brand collaborations, exclusive collections, and how it's become a palate cleanser, a way for brands to reach a massive new audience. So much to talk about, a lot to unpack. So let's go get dressed with Daniel Yann Miller.

1:15Welcome to the pod. Thank you. Thank you. It's great to be here. So I want to get just your key insights here to kick off the episode. For you, over the weekend, what was the one thing that stood out to you the most? I really think that going into this I wrote about how this Super Bowl was going to be like the biggest kind of like fashion moment like we're going to see the biggest like level of fashion integration integration from the fashion industry in terms of brands and styling and and all of these different things and and it definitely was that I think I think this Super Bowl was kind of like the highest profile yet and like the last years we've seen it grow each time but I think this time like took a really big step forward both in terms of like the ancillary things like the things that happen around the Superbowl itself but also like the the moment and there's so much to unpack but I think it was fascinating to me to just see how big kind of brands went in the lead up to the Superbowl it really felt like being on the ground felt like a fashion week and that like there was a it was I kept saying it was like fashion week without the calendar there was like a thousand things happening all at the same time so many different brands activating and it was interesting just talking to a bunch of different NFL players about like how excited they were to like engage in fashion a bit more and like lean into that side of things as well as you know like as well as their usual their usual kind of like interest so it was interesting seeing brands pushing that side of things more and then like in the Super Bowl itself which I'm sure we'll come to talk about like the the halftime show moment like the tunnel walk so many of these different moments like had fashion at the very heart of it and like I think fashion has been a bigger talking important than ever before in a Super Bowl.

2:48Hearing you say it's like a fashion week is so interesting and pretty spot on. Like you've got people who are coming in who are interested in engaging with brands, but then you also have the industry facing side of it. Obviously, fashion week is important when you're in New York and when you're in Paris, Milan, London, all the editors are there. And fashion week really started because brands would show their collections for buyers to come in. But I also think that like there's this whole other level to it where it's like brands have this opportunity to meet their consumers where they're at. And brands like Tom Brown doing their show during the Super Bowl instead of New York Fashion Week for a brand that has so many themes of like prep and the football symbolism and things like that in there is a big risk.

3:32But if you do it right, huge reward because that alignment is so spot on. And they really did it right. Yeah. Because I was speaking about Super Bowl being a fashion week and obviously I forgot to mention the two fashion shows that happen but like tom brown being one of them and like you say they really did it right and i think it makes so much so it wouldn't make sense for for all brands but it makes sense for a brown a brand sorry like tom brown just because of how kind of established and respected it is already already have those relationships with the buyers the media note like it's not missing out on anything by not showing up in new york fashion week and i think instead of just being another show or like an expected show on the calendar of new york fashion week it was very smart of them to to partner with GQ for this for this event and and gain some real traction and and I think like significantly more like media value and exposure than if they'd done a regular on on calendar show at at New York fashion week and like you say it makes a lot of sense it's not just like a random brand doing it like Tom Brown has a deep relationship to football Tom Brown as in the person Tom Brown the brand also has a deep relationship to sport as well and And you kind of go back years to when we first started seeing athletes showing up in interesting fashion fits at the Met Gala, for example, it was like Russell Westbrook turning up in like the Tom Brown skirt, which was like a really big moment.

4:50And I think that that kind of like long term relationship to sport, like really validates a brand showing up at the Super Bowl. And there was integration across the across the kind of like moment as well. I can't remember like who it was, but before just before the national anthem, there was another song played. And the performer was also like wearing a really interesting like Tom Brown outfit, which I thought was like a really like smart. It's not like they just did an isolated show with some of the players and all of that. It was like a real, really considered strategic presence across the across the weekend, which which I thought was really smart.

5:21I also thought it was so genius that they launched an A6 collaboration during the Super Bowl. like that landed for me 10 times better than it would have during New York Fashion Week. Exactly. And I think, again, it's just really smart. They didn't just do like a, it wasn't like a gimmicky, oh, we're going to do like an awful, it was a real, it was a genuine fashion show where, you know, as they often do, like brands will tease a new collection. And like you say, launching an ACS collaboration in the middle of like the Super Bowl, a big sporting event. It just, it makes so much sense. So I, that was, that also stood out to me.

5:52And I love the shoes. The gray ones are so cool. I was like, okay, those, this works. This is working for me. My marketing brain is being scratched. I loved it.

6:03So I want to zoom out before we continue to zoom in. Cause I feel like you and I could go like deep in the nitty gritty of things for a while. The NFL has been setting up an infrastructure to make it more of a fashionable enterprise for a few years now. They brought on Kyle Smith last year, who's their first ever fashion editor, who has also been helping style a lot of the players for games and really just bringing a lot more of a fashionable aspect to the enterprise. So I want to hear from you a little bit on why you think that's happening and what the infrastructure really looks like on the inside.

6:38Yeah. And to give people context, like when I first started writing about like the business was a fashion and sport, and I was kind of like looking, like just looking at the sports that I would like speak about frequently, like football was nowhere near like the NFL was never considered a league that had anything to do with the fashion world. like no way compared to like sports like soccer or basketball or tennis like the NFL and football just didn't even come close and that's not to say that there weren't fashionable people who played the sport or anything like that it was more so like the the kind of when you think about sports that lend themselves to fashion they're very rarely the sports that have the athletes covered up head to toe during the game because it's very hard to kind of like build relationship visual relationships with those players and and and kind of like build things around them it's very hard because they don't have that kind of like visual facial exposure during during the game which is when most people are watching but over the last say two years i think the nfl has been like the biggest grower in terms of like sports that have come from nowhere in a fashion context and really really been like influential in the core of the fashion industry and a lot of that is thanks to like the the intentional strategic work that the league has done to to align itself with the fashion industry and that like has coupled like in a sporting sense with the league wanting to become more international so like now the nfl plays international games in several cities around the world i think next next season they're going to be playing in like melbourne london paris which will be a new one madrid berlin and i think ireland too dublin so i think i think it's no coincidence that the the league's expansion into cultural avenues like fashion has has been simultaneous to its kind of like global expansion because the two really go hand in hand like the league is trying to court consumers and fans who didn't know about football before and may like be tangentially linked but weren't really that involved and another way to do that like is going after groups of consumers who so far have maybe felt like either underrepresented by the sport or didn't really have like points of connection fashion is a great way to do that and like you mentioned Kyle Smith who was made the fashion editor of the NFL recently really kind of like has been central to that and i've written a lot about how as a sports league wanting to enter fashion or any kind of sports organization you need to have institutional knowledge from the fashion industry and carl smith is the best example of that like the best example he came from a styling background like he he will tell you he'll be the first so he did not know the single thing about football before like he did not know any of the players all of that and like that really helped because like he came in and he was able to like make frank assessments of like styling and like choices that the league was making in the fashion world and like his impact really has been kind of like felt in so many different ways both like league-wide but also like on a player-to-player level if you look at the relationship he's built with players like Joe Burrow for example like they're close close friends now and it's more just like the way he sits down with each player and understands what they need and what they want in terms of styling or maybe like even not what they want because they don't know about like what they what be helpful for them and he's led to like so many different interesting moments like that have really pushed the NFL forward in the fashion context like when Joe Burrow and one other player worked in walked sorry in the the Vogue World Show in Paris ahead of the Olympics and Joe Burrow wore that now famous like backless suit or backless blazer I should say and I think that was like a really iconic moment that traveled around the fashion world and it was the first time I think NFL players have been seen in that context and that like that's a really good kind of like example of how far the NFL has come in its journey and fashion.

10:13Framing him like a translator I think is so important because someone like me who doesn't know the first thing about again football I can't even tell you what's going on in the game to have someone who also joined the league but is able to translate the two worlds and be that connector I think was the smartest move they could have made to make the NFL more appetizing to fashion brands and fashion people who might not have ever touched the sport before. Yeah, absolutely. I've always said like, I've had a funny career where like I started working in law and then sports law, and I've always been connected to sports.

10:51But like, I've always had this kind of impression that people in sports know nothing about fashion and people in fashion know very little about sports. And in the middle, there's the tiniest layer of people who know about both. And that's where the value is and carl smith now is one of those people who like at first like had zero exposure to the sports industry but he was able to come in with like this complete fresh perspective that has like helped the nfl leapfrog so many other established kind of organizations and leagues so many of those athletes leapfrog other athletes and other sports that were better suited for fashion and like his value has been incredible and i think it works the same way as well all the brands that we see in fashion that are doing well in the sports world have people in them with institutional knowledge about the sports industry.

11:33And it really shows, like you can tell the brands that do and don't. And I think it's so important and often overlooked. What's a brand that you know that does that you think absolutely kills it? I think brands like, I mean, Tom Brown for one, Brown for one, Jacques Mouz as well. I think some of the things they do in sport, like really smart and it's no coincidence with the people they have behind them. On as well, obviously it's a sportswear brand, but like the hires they've made from the fashion industry from the very beginning have been so smart. Even like if you think back to On's first ever collaboration, which was with Louis Vuitton, Jonathan Anderson, like that doesn't come about by coincidence.

12:05That's because there's institutional knowledge and connections that have helped them navigate the fashion industry to get to someone like that. And that's like, that's borne out throughout the rest of their trajectory. So I think brands like that, like clearly have hired correctly and not just going about it like with a scattergun approach. Well, of all brands that I think have killed it, I think Adidas had quite a day yesterday. It was amazing to see. I know you and I talked about it. We were like, is he, isn't he going to wear it? And I think what's interesting when you look at brands and their integration into the Superbowl weekend, there are so many of different avenues they could take, right?

12:40They can try to get someone to wear it. They can try to pay to have a commercial. Like there are so many different ways they can be integrated into the Superbowl and seeing Adidas all over the halftime show and get so much media value out of it and not even have to do a commercial was a slam dunk for them. What did you think about Adidas yesterday? Yeah, I think, like you say, there's so many different avenues a brand can take to show up at the Super Bowl. I think I've written about, I wrote about this last week when I was speaking about the big moment Adidas could have if this happened. But I think there are so many different ways you could do it.

13:14But one of the most expensive, I mean, the most expensive way for sure is having a commercial. you can pay$7 million for a 30 second commercial that's stacked across like thousands of other similar commercials that's like inundating people throughout the game and that they might not see. Or you can be lucky enough to have a collaborator like Adidas, who's the hottest artist in music right now, who also just happens to have a signature sneaker coming out with your brand and, and he can wear it on stage. And that's, that's what happened. And that's, I mean, it's not free because Adidas is obviously paying him loads of money to be their partner, but like in the grand scheme of things, it's completely free because Adidas gets completely free marketing for its brand new shoe that it's about to launch with him.

13:56And I guess to give people context, in the past, when people have worn certain products from certain brands that were unexpected, or kind of like nice surprises, it's really turbocharged brands popularity. Like the first Super Bowl that I ever kind of covered from a like a fashion sports journalism perspective was in 2023, when Rihanna wore Salomon sneakers. And that was like the crowning moment for Salomon's like growth from like a nerdy outdoor footwear brand to this like fashion shoe. And that like the exposure it got was incredible. Like it really like continues to turbocharge its growth for the next few years.

14:31It's just worth its weight in gold. And like we said, Adidas could have paid for a splashy ad and might've got like some traction from it there. But two, three days after the Super Bowl, like I don't know how many people remember what ads run and what didn't. But I think like those images of Bad Bunny performing will endure in people's minds for so long for so many reasons that we all know. But like it was such an iconic, like beautifully produced show and those images will live on in people's minds. And I think people, so many communities and so many consumers will have emotional connections to that moment.

15:04And Adidas products is right there. And I mean, same for Zara. He wore a custom Zara look and I don't think anyone expected that. So two big wins. The Custom Zara look completely blew my mind for a lot of reasons. I mean, one, he wore Custom Schiaparelli just a week ago to win a Grammy. And a complete pivot 180 to then wearing Custom Zara for one of the biggest moments of his career. One of the most televised moments for him for sure. And I think one, when I thought so many things when I first saw it, I was like, okay, one, this is a performance that is for the people. This is for everybody. And so in my mind, going Zara, of course, I understand it's accessible.

15:48It's affordable for everybody watching the show right now. But I also immediately started to think about what a kind of groundbreaking move this was for Zara, who hasn't really done something like this before. I think they've done maybe one thing in the past in the custom lane, but this was a huge moment for Zara. And I immediately thought about Zach Posen and what he's doing with Gap and how he's beginning to do, you know, these custom looks for the red carpet and dressing celebrities. And I'm like, ooh, is Zara taking a page out of that playbook and really trying to make the brand seem more quote unquote high fashion?

16:26I thought it was interesting. Me too. I thought it was fascinating for all those reasons and I didn't see it coming, but I really enjoyed it. I thought it was fun. I thought it looked incredible as well. But like Like you say, I think one time I'd love to do like an episode or a newsletter on like the economics and like the politics of getting something, getting a look like that placed. Because I can't even imagine how much like wrangling and negotiations went on behind the scenes to make sure that look was placed and arranged along with the Adidas sneak. Because it just, it was, it must have taken so many different parties, so many different agreements.

16:57And it was amazing. But I agree. I think it really fits into like Zara's push to be like seen also in like a more elevated context. And I know over the years, they've kind of like tried with like various different collaborations that haven't always landed. And I think a strategy like having someone like Zach Posen, which who's done amazing things at Gap and really helped to kind of like revive like perceptions of Gap in like higher levels of dressing is the way to go. But this, yeah, is a huge moment. And hopefully they'll be able to build off the momentum from something like this to be to be kind of like have that other level to their to their product category as well.

17:35Custom Zara, never thought I'd ever see that sentence. No, Custom Zara on Bad Bunny at the Super Bowl. I opened up the Vogue coverage of it because obviously Vogue got the exclusive on it. And I was expecting like, I was like, oh, an all white suit. Like maybe it's Jacques Moose. Like what are we doing here? And the minute it said Custom Zara, I was like, wow, what a win. I'm so curious to see what this now kicks off for Zara. Like, are we going to see it on a red carpet? it. I wouldn't be surprised if we are. I mean, I think again, Gap Inc has really set precedent for that. I mean, Claire Danes just now at the Golden Globes was in custom Gap.

18:14I'm so curious to see what this opens up. Yeah, I feel like it's a real it's a real trend at the moment or like for the past couple of years, like those those kind of like mass market retailers like trying to push further up market and do celebrity dressing and things like that or designer collaborations. And And I think like Uniqlo as well has tried like in the past to like have those lines with different designers and all these things. But I feel like Gap is the real kind of like leader in that pack. And it's a very enviable place to be as a mass market retailer to also have that kind of like element of celebrity dressing and custom look.

18:48So I have no doubt that Zara is trying to get in that lane too. Back to Adidas. I saw this morning that his sneaker sold out, which he was wearing yesterday during the Super Bowl, his custom Adidas. The bad bow one, right? completely sold out this morning yeah i mean yeah this is like adidas will be so you can't make this kind of stuff up as as a sneaker brand like you can't you can't write this kind of thing and also just to give people context about like the significance of bad bunny to adidas like he he really is he really is one of those one-of-a-kind collaborators and and partners that that can really like turbocharge a brand especially for adidas in the wake of in the wake of like losing their relationship with Kanye West a few years ago in 2023 they've really been kind of like searching for for like another person to take that like figurehead post and and like in terms of someone who's perfectly connected to like the world's sport music culture like Bad Bunny is that person and like they didn't have to go and find him he was already a part of the brand since I think maybe like 2020 or 2021 and originally Adidas worked with him to kind of like help with the brand's exposure among Latino consumers and in the Latin American market.

20:01But his profile has grown so much and so organically over the last years that he's become one of one of like maybe Adidas's most important collaborators and far more like to be seen equally on the same level as like Lionel Messi, for example. And that is no small feat. And the fact that Adidas has given him so much leeway with his kind of own brand, his own sneaker now is a really important kind of like indicator of how significant he is to the brand from a commercial perspective. And yeah, I mean, when you can tie like people's insane fandom of one person who's attached to your brand with products, like that's gold dust.

20:39And of course it's going to sell out and they'll restock it, it will sell out again. And that's the best possible way you can launch a signature sneaker. And no one could have predicted that these things would line up so nicely. But I think it was really smart. And I think they first, they did a first like tiny release on the day of his grammy win or the day after and it was like it was like 1 ,990 something pairs like whatever the year of his birth was yeah and it was smart like just release a few like get the product out there like a few lucky fans get it and that's like the best thing ever and and people like us will be like oh it's adidas was smart and they they hit release on that shoe and i just think it's it's really smart business and and when they do the wider release again i'm sure it will be will be just as successful and i i saw on on our mutual friend Made's data, but make it fashion page this morning about how like the popularity of like those Adidas models is, is soaring.

21:27So, I mean, let's see, I can pull it up. I think she said, let's see, Made, we love you. 20 % I saw, but I can't remember which. Okay. She said, Adidas watching Bad Bunny's Super Bowl increased their popularity by 20 % in just one day. Yep. I also would love to know how the Zara stock is going to do this week. I know. I mean, it's perfect. Perfect exposure. Perfect exposure for them both. I want to talk about some things that didn't work. What did you think about Abercrombie? I was at the Abercrombie show on Saturday. And it was interesting. I thought, like, so they obviously have kind of collaborated with the NFL for a few years.

22:05And last year, like, they announced it become like a full-blown, like, league-wide partnership. And they've been working with, like, various different athletes to kind of, like, incorporate them into the marketing and things like that. the show itself wasn't really for me like a full-blown fashion show it was more it was more like a I guess they called it a presentation and I thought I was going into it to see like a full-on show but it was more just a yeah a presentation of sorts like very small like gathering there can't have been more than like 50 people in the room but like several of the athletes walked in in the show like Cooper Dejean and sorry several NFL athletes and T Higgins Christian McCaffrey like quite a few and I thought like the compared to the Tom Brown show which was obviously more of a traditional fashion show this felt a bit like light-hearted very like fun and gimmicky and like silly it was just like they didn't take themselves too seriously and like the players were having fun and and at the same time I didn't really get the impression that like the clothes were the main draw I think it was more Abercrombie like showing off and and kind of like signaling that it has that proximity and relationship to the NFL.

23:13And I think that was the main part of it. I think more could have been done to make it into a full-blown kind of like show, because I think that's initially how it was branded and pitched. But yeah, it was definitely very different to the Tom Brown, like what we saw at Tom Brown, understandably. I too thought it was going to be a big show. And I also think that like in this era where we're seeing the revival of so many brands, right? Like what we can go back to Gap and talking about all their brands having such a big moment. We can talk about Victoria's Secret, who I think has overcome a lot of different hurdles and was able to really come out on top last fall with an incredible show that so many people attended, wanted to get behind and support.

23:53I feel like this moment could have been a real moment for Abercrombie to make a strong comeback. I was so surprised when I saw the coverage of it and it looked like just like a tiny, like people walked out from behind a curtain and then like went back and it was like I think only 10 to 15 looks I thought it could have been so much more it definitely could have been more it reminded me of like I think they had the ingredients there for something that could have been like really big and I thought the the kind of the set design was interesting like they they kind of created this like American like preppy clubhouse vibe and and all of that I just thought it reminded me of so many partnerships that I've seen that like maybe in the first year don't like hit it get it off the mark like in the best and like most interesting possible way and I think maybe they went a bit small with it I think they had so many good athletes and people walk the show but I think they could have shown off more looks I think they could have like had regular models walk the runway if they needed more people but I think they just kept it to the athletes and the friends of the brand from the world of sport to walk in it.

24:59So I think, yeah, I think maybe they kind of limited themselves in how big they could have gone. I'll be interested to see in future years if they decide that that was worthwhile and they're going to do it. And if they do, if they're going to do it on a wider scale too. But yeah, I agree. I think I was also surprised and maybe a few other people were with how kind of like low key it was. What do you think is in store for the future of that relationship? I know you just mentioned, And you're curious to see what happens down the line. But for a brand that has like a partnership with the NFL, it's the only brand that has that level of a partnership.

25:31I would think that there would be so much more. So I'm curious if you think that that relationship is going to persevere or if someone's going to try and come in and take that slot. I'm sure. I mean, I don't know how long they have the contract for, but I'm sure that's going to be a hot ticket. Like when, whenever it's up for renewal, I think over the next few years, though I'm sure Abercrombie will get more kind of like expressive and explore more opportunities that it like has within the NFL world I think like the fact that like the NFL is now going more international there's scope for Abercrombie pop-ups at these moments all around the world and I think I think sometimes brands just like having these partnerships because of the kind of associated benefits they get from from the proximity to these leagues and I think like we saw Balenciaga partner with the NBA on a collaboration recently and I think sometimes just having the relationship so they can bring guests press VIP clients is also like very valuable and sometimes we expect them to have like these big marketing moments and like these shows and all of that and sometimes their ROI maybe isn't as good as like the benefits they get like being able to bring people into the world of of that sport and and have that proximity there So I do think we'll see them press forward with more activations.

26:42I think having a relationship like this, though, I think you have to try and find a way to incorporate your brand into a future halftime show. I think that seems to me like the biggest. Right, yeah. I don't know how it works behind the scenes, but when you have that kind of in, there must be a way that you can incorporate your brand a bit more into that grandstand moment that everyone, the whole world is watching. Is there a brand that you think would be primed for that? I mean, so many. I'm trying to think. I mean, I would love to see, like, we spoke before about, like, Jack Moose, but I would love to see Jack Moose, like, in the, when I first saw him wearing that suit, I thought he was wearing, like, you say, Jack Moose, but, like, I would love to see, that would be, that would be a really cool, I don't think that would work as, like, a fashion partner for the NFL league-wide, but I would love to see a partner like that, that take the reins one time in the halftime show.

27:29I also could see this like other approach of like going through like the mall brands. I could see a gap. I could see an old Navy situation. But yeah, I think whatever brand it is, they need to come in and do something that feels a bit more integrated. So it doesn't feel like this one-off thing that doesn't really work. Yeah, I was I can agree more. I think gap would be fascinating for me. Like I really wish Skims had partnered with the NFL instead of the NBA. Like Skims would be amazing. And I think the thing is like Skims obviously works with the NBA and like USA basketball in general. But I think basketball has been so saturated from a fashion and brand perspective for so long that like for some reason, like I don't see Skims pop up that much in relation to the NBA or USA basketball aside from around the Olympics.

28:16And I think there's a real miss. I'm sure that's a very expensive partnership. I think they could have had way more cut through with the NFL. and I think I would love to see one day down the line like Skims be the official partner of some capacity for like with the NFL. I think they would, when it comes to like staging shows and show business and all the things that are associated with the Super Bowl, I feel like Skims is the brand prime to make the most of that kind of opportunity. I also would love to see more in the hockey space. Like I feel like Winter Olympics are having a big thing right now.

28:47Obviously there's no comparison to the NFL and basketball and tennis, of course. these are getting like way less eyeballs. But with the Olympics, Winter Olympics right now, we're seeing so much winter sport. And obviously, right off of heated rivalry, I feel like everybody loves a hockey moment. So I would love to see a little bit more there. I don't know if it's like worth the investment for brands. What do you think? I think I think like, obviously, like you say, sports wide, those individual sports will never have the will never have the visibility or kind of like global interest as basketball soccer but or tennis but i think the good thing about like where sports is at right now culturally and and in terms of like the its relationship to the fashion industry there are so many like cultural avenues and and and trends and moments that have like thrown forward these figureheads of these news like of these other sports so just because just because like the sport itself of let's say hockey or ice skating or figure skating is not a globally renowned sport or not a sport that's like followed throughout the four years in between each Olympics I think individual athletes are now being held as like cultural figureheads and that makes them as individuals perfect partners for brands so I don't think that brands need to worry anymore that that a sport like hockey is maybe not as globally followed I think like individual athletes they can or people like for example the cast of heated rivalry like that that still counts as like having a connection to sport even though it's a fictional show i think there are so many different opportunities now and i look at like the world of track and field for example which is traditionally like obviously a a world that the eyes of of the like the popular global population are on like once every four years typically for the olympics and and it's a sport like it's so unique in the sense that it's a sport that like has such avid attention and and fandom like in short spikes once every four years.

30:38But now we've seen like so many interesting like individual athletes from that sport become year round stars because of like the increased visibility of social media and the increased interest of brands to work with individual athletes, regardless of the overall popularity of the sport itself. You wrote a story on your sub stack that I absolutely loved. And it was about how brands can use sports almost like a cultural palate cleanser. Balenciaga had just done that collaboration And obviously Balenciaga has had quite a reputational miss in the last five years. And I think, you know, you wrote this story saying that sports can often be a palate cleanser, a way to kind of neutralize things and reach a really mass audience.

31:21I think Balenciaga doing an athletic collaboration is super interesting and really, I think, not in what we know Balenciaga for. But I would love to hear your thoughts on why you think sport can really change or almost level the playing field for a brand. Yeah. I mean, speaking of leveling, sports is the one great equalizer. Like sports is the one great equalizer. It's like the most democratic, universally understood, accepted language in the world. and sport cuts across so many different social levels, political divides, demographic divides, ethnic divides, all of these things that like, that kind of make up our society and lives as humans, sport cuts across them all.

32:10And really like, aside from maybe music, it's the one thing that can do that. And I think as a result, there's a lot of power in harnessing the universal love and appreciation of sport to let's say wipe the slate clean from previous kind of like perceptions or connotations associated to your brand and i think that's that's that has to be one of the reasons why balenciaga have have done what they've done in sport like partnering with the nba and also simultaneously launching kind of like sports inspired activewear type collection i think having an association to to sports and and especially to a popular sport like basketball brings with it a lot of like popular culture associations and and i think for a very long time balenciaga has now been known as the brand that that like spokes a very specific type of consumer had that relationship between demner and and kanye and all these different things and then had that subsequent kind of scandal and even though it's been like several years since that now like it's it's this like often just anecdotally like when i hear balenciaga brought up in fashion circles and life circles whatever like someone always brings up the fact that like that brand has been in a bit of trouble and that that to me is a sign that they like even though it's been a while and like structurally and and and they've read like they have a new creative director all that they've moved past that i think the the kind of after effects of that kind of thing still linger so moving into sport is firstly where the industry overall is headed luxury brands now all want that association with sport like lvmh partnering with formula one all of these different things i think it's a smart play just to kind of like have that association to something that's far outside the fashion industry but at the same time brings with it a lot of like star power a lot of credibility a lot of like universal appeal do you think it worked like do you think that balenciaga active wear really moved the needle i mean i think it's early days i don't think a balenciaga active wear collection will move the needle in any big way but i think like i think having a partner like the nba is smart and i don't know like if that's going to be a longer term relationship if that was a one-off thing but I do think again having the ability to bring media to bring influencers associated to your brand to bring like VIP clients celebrities into the world of NBA via Balenciaga I think that is super smart and the benefits of that are like significant I saw people posting about Balenciaga that haven't posted about Balenciaga or written about Balenciaga in years just because brought them to the game yeah and sat in NBA London or NBA Berlin or wherever it was.

34:45So I think, I think that that in itself just shows how powerful these moments are because everyone wants to go to the NBA. Everyone wants to sit courtside at the NBA and like being able to be a brand that can facilitate that is very smart. Is there another brand that you think is using sport in a really good way? On is a sportswear brand, but, but I mean, like, I think the way they they've used sport is fascinating because they don't, they're case in point for brand that doesn't really like mind about going to a sport outside of what's popular they I wrote about it a couple of months back but they kind of launched a new collection with this Japanese retailer fashion brand called Beams and it was kind of a really cool like sports inspired streetwear collection type thing with a shoe and everything like that but they didn't get an athlete to promote it they didn't get like a or they didn't get a traditional athlete to promote it and they didn't get like a celebrity they got this guy called Kurt Steiner who's like the world record stone skimmer skipper yeah it's a really cool it's a really cool like campaign it's so beautiful it's all about the power of mountains and nature and it's shot in like three different kind of like mountain ranges that are relevant to arnold and the collection so one was in japan i think one was in switzerland and this one was shot in the pacific northwest with this dude kurt steiner who is like the lebron james of stone skipping this is unbelievable he's a cool dude this is so cool and like the the campaign is amazing and and like it did really well but because because of like how left field it wasn't like it shows that you don't need you don't need to go and pay millions of dollars to get like the top athlete in your campaign you can find amazing stories in sports and performance that are well beyond what people's like kind of like understanding of it is and use them to like build fascinating stories and products around so I love when brands do stuff like that I think Hermes is also doing a lot of really cool stuff in sport I mean of course it's a brand rooted in sport with their equestrian themes.

36:33Like, of course, that is their history and that is so deeply integral to the brand. But there were players dressed in full. There was one player, I'm sorry, guys, I don't know his name. I'm not a sports girl, but there was one player dressed head to toe, Hermes Look, Grace Wells Bonner, who is now being moved over there as a creative director, who in my mind became so well-known for her Adidas collaboration. And that is so rooted in sport. I feel like they have a great eye on what's happening in the sports world. and how that visibility and almost like mass market can be played into the Hermes playbook.

37:07Yeah, it's fascinating. Like, I mean, that relationship, again, is another one that's going to serve Adidas so well because like even if they don't collaborate, which they probably, they might not because of how Hermes is, but like the value of having a collaborator, it's like the same thing with Bad Bunny, but like on a more like deeper fashion level, the value of having Grace Wells Bonner, like one of their most valued designers now is great. And like, when you add that to the fact that another collaborator they work with Pharrell is at LV, there's just so many amazing synergies across the luxury fashion industry.

37:38But like you mentioned, there's no coincidence that all of the most relevant and popular designers over the last few years are all the ones that kind of spotted and organically worked with sports before it was such a big thing as it is now. Like, again, Jonathan Anderson, Martine Rose, Grace Wells Bonner, Pharrell, all of these people really understood like how powerful and interesting and alluring sports could be before it was such an apparent thing to everyone else. When you see how much fashion has been borrowing from sports, whether it's players, moments, visibility, I'm curious what you think that signals about what fashion is missing right now as a whole.

38:16I mean, I think that, I think it's fascinating, like how I kind of, I kind of worry about like how much the fashion industry is leaning into sports because of like how kind of like over-reliant it's becoming on sports as a storytelling tool and athletes and and i think i saw like we saw a similar thing a few years back with how heavily like the fashion industry like rushed into the sneaker world like 2019 2020 2021 like every single fashion brand wanted to to make their own sneaker and if they didn't want to make their own sneaker they wanted to do a collaboration with nike on a sneaker the sportswear brand were all going crazy like producing like millions and millions of units of their top selling sneakers and it really like oversaturated the market oversaturated our minds with like sneaker related content and all that kind of thing and that the the effects of that was that people got tired and and there was a big kind of pullback and i guess like a market correction really and and everything came crashing down and brands were left with all this stock and consumers were left with all these shoes that they didn't really need or won but kind of got caught up in a frenzy buying so i hope the same thing doesn't happen to sport i do think there are a lot of collaborations and collections out there now that are sports inspired that often come from brands and organizations that don't have the right institutional knowledge and maybe rushed into it because that's what they thought they needed to do to keep up with the with the market i really hope that we don't see it get to a stage where it becomes too gimmicky and oversaturated but i do i do generally worry about how much and how kind of like fervent the desires from the fashion industry to to have anything to do with with the world of sport.

39:51This was such a fascinating conversation. I feel like there are numerous episodes we need to do as follow ups to this. We have a lot to do. We do. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. Before we close out, I feel like I know we touched on so many Super Bowl things. Was there anything else that was like most exciting to you that you feel like you want people to know about or or share from your very expert POV? For me, it's just like for me, it was the first time being around football players and NFL athletes. And I've been around a lot of athletes from different sports over the years, but, but I was really like impressed and like interested and fascinated by like the, their, like their personalities and their desire to like be involved in like building their sport, like beyond what they do on the field.

40:33And like, you don't always get that, like, and completely understandably, understandably a lot of athletes just want to do their day job and go home and, and they have like very tough and, and intense training and lives and all that and they just want to do their thing but I was really impressed and and encouraged by like how excited and invested they all were in building personally like their own personal profiles and and the sport in general like especially using fashion as a vehicle and and to kind of like get that wider visibility among among new people so I I I found that like for me that was the biggest takeaway and like I came with so many fascinating connections and and and facilitated a lot of really interesting conversations between like athletes I met and and people I know in the fashion industry.

41:14So that was, yeah, that was, for me, that was the biggest takeaway. I love to hear that it feels like a team effort. Like it isn't just a league wide goal, but it seems like it's coming from the inside too, which I think is very cool. And I'm excited to see what the year brings. Absolutely. And yeah, thank you so much for having me on. This has been so much fun and we definitely need to do many more. Yeah, this was really fun. Thank you so much. I know that you are so busy. You're there right now in the midst of, I'm sure, so many interviews and writing your Substack and so many things. So thank you for making time for us.

41:43Of course, anytime. And for being our translator. We really appreciate it. The fashion community appreciates you. Anytime. Awesome.