How to Budget for Clothes & Stop Impulse Shopping with Mrs. Dow Jones

0:00Haley Sacks: Focus on your own human capital versus trying to look rich. Actually focus on becoming rich. Welcome Haley to the pod. I'm so excited to be here.

0:09Let's Get Dressed Host: You're someone who advocates for a lot of financial education, but I also know you love to shop.

0:15Haley Sacks: I'm going to help you get dressed in a more financially sophisticated way. I find that being a woman is the hardest part of my budget. understanding how much to spend on clothes and how to manage that correctly. I have two tricks. Someone had asked me, how much do you put aside to spend every month? There's two parts of it. One is your budget. And I always recommend looking at the 50-30-20 budget. I think what's complicated for women is that there's also a lot of data that when women wear makeup, they make more money. When women look good, they make more money. If I tell you to never spend money on anything that you want, you're going to then go like in a trance and Apple Pay like Apple be paying and buy like 10 things.

1:02Haley Sacks: Whereas if you had just bought like one thing mindfully or two things mindfully, that would be so much better.

1:06Let's Get Dressed Host: So when we are online and we see like the investment jacket, the investment thing, it's propaganda.

1:11Haley Sacks: It's all propaganda. If you really want to invest in something that's going to make you money, invest in the stock market.

1:16Let's Get Dressed Host: And that's showbiz, baby. Yeah. You literally just broke down the fashion industry.

1:22Let's Get Dressed Host: Welcome back to Let's Get Dressed. Before we dive into today's episode, make sure that you're following the show, both on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, so that you don't miss a new episode. In case you want to watch today's episode, you can head over to YouTube. The full episode is available there too. And when you're done, leave us a review. I always love to hear what you guys think about the episodes, and it really helps the show go. Now let's go get dressed. welcome Haley to the pod I'm so excited to be here I'm thrilled that you're here I love all of your content I'm like addicted to it so nice and I love what you're wearing what are those earrings for people watching on YouTube I feel like they're gonna want to know these are from a small boutique called mango oh I've never heard of it yeah it's so weird mom pop like oh my god

2:04Haley Sacks: how cute yeah very sort of you know from Spain or yeah from Spain for sure yeah exactly yeah my friend told me about them I always love when people dress up for the pod yeah it's artisan stuff. So yeah, perfect.

2:17Let's Get Dressed Host: So tell us how you are going to help all of us get dressed better today.

2:22Haley Sacks: Well, I mean, I think you're helping us all get dressed better, but I'm going to help you get dressed in a more financially sophisticated way. And I'll tell you all about how I do it. And hopefully that will inspire other people to maybe take some of my tips. 100%. I can't wait. And actually all of this started because I got a DM where someone had asked me, how much do you put

2:43Let's Get Dressed Host: decide to spend every month? Do you actually have an allotted amount or is it a percentage of your income? And that question stumped me because I was like, I actually have never thought of it that way. I think, you know, we all can rationalize an expense if we want to. I'm really good at rationalizing expenses. But I really think that that question inspired me to get more practical about the way that I spend money in my life in terms of how I spend it on things that I want. and something that I have a very hard time with with fashion is that I think a lot of the times the stigma around it or the perception of it is oh it's materialistic like you're just buying things to be materialistic but I like live in the ethos of the opposite of that it's like we buy things that make us feel good that make us like show up as our best self every day if you got that

3:31Haley Sacks: DM what would you say it's a very interesting question because there's two parts of it one is your budget, right? And I always recommend looking at the 50-30-20 budget, which is you take your after-tax income and you split it into three parts. 50 % on needs, 30 % on wants, and 20 % on future you. So that's your savings, your investments. Maybe you're paying off debt, you're saving your emergency fund, like all your healthy financial moves, that's at 20%. So a new coat, it's not a need and it's definitely not an investment. It's a want. So it goes in that 30 percent. But that's assuming that you don't have any other coats, right?

4:17Haley Sacks: So like if you have if you really needed another coat, it would be a need. But like we're talking about it from a fashion perspective, which is, OK, I want a coat to look good because I like the coat. It's a want. So, yeah, I think that it would be in the want category. But I think what's complicated for women is that there's also a lot of data that, you know, when women wear makeup, they make more money. When women look good, they make more money. And so then there's also this opportunity cost if you hold yourself back with clothes and maybe that will hold you back in your career, too. But I think there's ways to look good where you don't have to spend that much money.

4:52Haley Sacks: But I will always say that it's a want, not a need. So it's like underwear.

4:56Let's Get Dressed Host: Right. Yeah. So you're someone who advocates for a lot of financial education, but I also know you love to shop. Yes, I do. And hearing even how you have like a very specific look for Ms. Dow Jones, how do those two things intersect? Like how do we be people that are financially educated, but also what if we're just people who love to shop as well?

5:18Haley Sacks: Well, first of all, on the heaven mayhem thing, I sort of did that with Mrs. Dow Jones like three years ago when my business or yeah maybe I think three years ago or four years ago when my business started to make real money I made a conscious decision I remember in January being like okay what do I want to do this year how do I want to like reinvest in myself and I was like I'm going to get a stylist and I really want to change the look and elevate the look of Mrs. Dow Jones because that makes such a difference in how people perceive you and I think you know when you're scrolling on social media or any of these things you end up looking for a little bit longer at the people who maybe are dressed in a way that catches your eye.

5:55Haley Sacks: And so it really is a business expense that I think really helps with how people, you know, see Mrs. Dow Jones.

6:03Let's Get Dressed Host: So interesting. How did you approach the 50, 30, 20, right? How did you approach that as someone who's freelance? I'm sure there are so many people listening right now who don't have a set paycheck and aren't able to look at their year holistically like that. How do you approach it from that perspective?

6:19Haley Sacks: It's such a good point because it's so hard when you're freelance and you don't know where the next check is coming from to understand how much is actually gonna come in. I always recommend averaging the last three months so that you sort of have some sort of idea of like how much you might be making this month. And then whenever you do get paid, it's also so important to put aside money for taxes. People forget that. And I definitely made that mistake early in my career too, where I didn't put aside that 30 % and then I was slapped with that big tax bill. So I would say average it and then also make sure that you are paying Uncle Sam.

6:54Let's Get Dressed Host: Right. So in the 50-30-20, I know you mentioned that there's a section of needs. I actually feel like there are a lot of people listening right now who would argue that some things are a need. Like, for example, your wardrobe for Miss Dow Jones. Yeah. Isn't that a need?

7:11Haley Sacks: Yes, but that's different, though, because that's like a business expense. Okay. But I do agree that like if you're like if you are 21 and you're starting your first job in corporate America, you definitely don't you probably have like, you know, 12 different sweatsuits and like athletic matching outfits. But like you don't have business clothes. So you're going to need to go out and spend some real money so that you can get the job that you want. So I think that is a need. That's an investment in you. But I think that the want comes from all of the frivolous spending that we do online that's so based on impulsivity and driven by influencer trends.

7:52Let's Get Dressed Host: I'm sure this is a very interesting thing to experience for you as someone who advocates for financial education and being smart with the way that you spend your money. How do you navigate those two things?

8:04Haley Sacks: I find that being a woman who is, you know, out in the world, it is the hardest part of my budget is understanding how much to spend on clothes and how to like manage that correctly. And what I found is I have two tricks. Well, I have three really. One, audit your closet so you actually understand on what you have. Like I did this this weekend. I now know everything that I have. I tried on everything, which is so annoying.

8:38Let's Get Dressed Host: Yes. Six hours. People get so mad at me when I say this. The only way to clean out your closet is by putting everything on. Yeah. Get a friend to come help you. Yes. Literally be like, I'll do it for you.

8:47Haley Sacks: You do it for me. It's literally my Bible.

8:49Let's Get Dressed Host: Yeah. It's literally like, I love that. It is. I'm very passionate about this. Like make it a thing. Yeah. Do it right. A hundred percent.

8:55Haley Sacks: It's like you have a, I tell people to have a money date every month, have a fashion date every quarter or half a year or whatever. Because like even I put on, I haven't lost or gained weight, but just like putting on all my clothes, they look different. I don't know why like this when I put them on three days ago than they did two months ago. Being a woman. Yeah. Body's changed. It's just part of it. It's so crazy. It's just being a woman. I know. And so that's one is trying your clothes because I'm planning to go shopping on Thursday, but I was saying this to my friend that it's like now I know actually what I need.

9:27Haley Sacks: Like I'm like, oh, I have so many pants. Like we're good on pants, girl. We might need another pair of jeans. I definitely need a pair of boots for fall. And I would love a new fall coat because I got a winter coat last year, but I like definitely need a fall coat. And it's like, but it's I'm actually filling gaps in my closet versus just impulsively going off of, oh, I got this sub stack or I saw the crop trench coat or whatever it is. And then I'm buying that thing that everyone told me to buy that actually doesn't add to my wardrobe. I remember when I started working with a stylist, the first thing that she did was get me white t-shirts and like basics because I didn't have any of those because I was only buying trends.

10:02Haley Sacks: So like I didn't know how to put any outfits together because it was like I had no pieces to build off of. So, you know, like that's also really important too. So that's a big one. Audit your closet. Number two is to understand your finances. Get an understanding of what your goals are. Like we talked about, you know, maybe someone who's starting a career in the corporate workplace and needs outfits for that moment. Like that is a moment to invest in yourself. But then there's other moments like I last week had to return a polka dot bomber jacket to Zara that I saw someone wearing online. And I, you know, in a 1130 PM, like probably had taken a gummy like moment of weakness, bought the jacket and then it came and And I'm like, this is something that I will wear not even 10 times too.

10:50Haley Sacks: Yes. It's like the most effervescent, just like, you know, fleeting thing. And so get a printer is another tip. I tell every person that I meet that because I never pretend that I'm perfect with spending on fashion. I love fashion. And so it's like a balance, but I return so much stuff. And then also I would recommend a lot of price checking and shopping secondhand because like even I have worn the same dress to every wedding for literally like 12 weddings. And I love it. Different groups of people are like same group. Sometimes the same. Like it's this. And by the way, this is about buying a good piece, too, because it's this amazing Dries Van Noden dress.

11:31Haley Sacks: Love. So timeless. So beautiful. And I have just I wear it every wedding. And so I have a wedding in October that I'm going to. I'm going to wear it again. It's actually a new group of people. I'm so excited. I'm like, great. They haven't seen it. But I was like, oh, for the rehearsal dinner, I have a wedding in two weeks, too. I actually sort of do need a new dress. I like I have all these outfits for Mrs. Dow Jones, but it's like blue plaid. And, you know, like just it's it's great for TV. If you want to go on the Today Show, I've got the great outfits for you. But like it's not for just a wedding.

12:04Haley Sacks: And so I bought this dress on Net-A-Porter that was expensive. But I was like, oh, it's this great black dress. I'm going to have it forever. And I price checked it and I found it for$1 ,500 less. What are you using to price check? I just use like Google Shopping. OK. And then you have to really scroll. But usually and what's important when you price check is it might bring you to a random website like a like a satire. Exactly. And the return policies on those websites are horrendous. Yeah. That's why. Yeah. Yeah. So only use them if you know exactly your size and the style that you're getting it.

12:37Haley Sacks: Like if you've gone to the store, you've ordered it from a different outlet and then you're able to buy it for less there. But it's like crazy. I mean, this happens to me all the time when I shop actual retail. Like if you go to Bergdorf's or something, whenever I go shopping in person, I always end up returning like half of it because I'll buy it in the moment. And then I go home and I make sure I look at everything online as thoroughly as I can to make sure I'm getting the best possible price because truly in the digital marketplace, it's like the wild, Wild West.

13:06Let's Get Dressed Host: I have so many questions. I hope I remember them all. The first one. Can we talk

13:12Haley Sacks: about your stylist for a second? Yes, Christine. So when I said that I originally hired the stylist, I was like, I just need a stylist because I was doing a lot of talking head videos. I just want someone who would get me cool earrings and bright shirts. Yep. And it honestly worked. Like that year, my account grew so much. And it's like, it was a lot of things that I was doing to help, but it tied it together because it just like looked more polished.

13:31Let's Get Dressed Host: Big believer in this. Yeah. Like I will get asked frequently, like, hey, I need a new wardrobe for work. Like, what should I get? Should I be spending on this? Like, again, this those are the things that really make the world of a difference. Like if you get on a Zoom and you've got a great earring or a great top. Totally. It really can change the trajectory of the entire conversation.

13:49Haley Sacks: And by the way, like I know this is off topic, but I will say like it's really great to have a stylist who will shop from like ASOS and Mango and Zara for you because it's not like the high end. Right. You can actually like so many of the tops that I use for shooting. First of all, I've had for so many years, but like they are from ASOS. But that being said, if you're not doing like something where you're seen in many different places and you need unique looks, like I'm a huge outfit repeater, too. I've worn this outfit before, you know, like we wear a lot of things over and over and over. If it works, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

14:24Haley Sacks: A hundred percent. So I think that also really works if you want to build your wardrobe out, like having a few looks that really work for you is really great. I've also heard a lot about this Sudoku method.

14:34Let's Get Dressed Host: Yes. It's just kind of like not a Tetris, but yeah, it's kind of like a capsule wardrobe.

14:38Haley Sacks: Yeah, exactly. Or like people, my mom really dresses in colors. So like she'll, she always looks great, but like she'll like wear different shades of blue or like different shades of like reds or whatever. And like, I mean, obviously the tailoring has to look right, but just finding some sort of thesis is helpful. And I love to hear that it made a difference in your numbers. Huge. Power of fashion. Power of fashion is huge. I know.

15:02Let's Get Dressed Host: Since this episode is all about really smart buys, I want to get into a little bit of my fall cheat sheet. I feel like every fall there is this moment where you start seeing so many trends all at once. It's fresh off of fashion month. There are so many ideas and so many things. it can get a little bit overwhelming. So I understand if you're like, what do I actually buy? What matters? What do I want to try? And what can I realistically work into the wardrobe that I already have? And a big thanks to Macy's for sponsoring today's segment. For me, there are really three things that I would focus on every fall.

15:37Let's Get Dressed Host: Firstly, great outerwear. It is the like biggest statement you can make with a wardrobe. I really love anything suede, especially in like a rich brown suede. I feel like that color has become the most like prominent color in my wardrobe in the fall. I found this oversized suede trench from Evec Lafie at Macy's. It is such a good example. First of all, this trench is absolutely gorgeous. It has a funnel neck, a beautiful belt. It's this like beautiful rich brown, really oversized, and it feels like a dramatic trench that becomes like a statement piece for your entire fall wardrobe. This is something I would wear on repeat and base so many of my outfits around.

16:16Let's Get Dressed Host: It could be something where you're wearing a white t-shirt and jeans underneath. Suddenly the whole look is absolutely fabulous. But I also really love it over, you know, a brown dress underneath, something monochromatic because, again, the suede adds like all that texture that you need. The second thing I always say everybody should have in their fall wardrobe is dark wash denim. It is the number one thing that I start to switch to as soon as the season starts to get a little bit cooler. And not because our like lighter jeans don't matter, but because it adds such rich texture and a little bit of warmth to all of your fall outfits.

16:50Let's Get Dressed Host: I love Good American and they actually have a vintage inspired low slung straight baggy jean in a really dark rinse. They have this like relaxed baggy shape, but because the denim is so dark, they feel so polished, so much more so than just your typical casual jean. And honestly, I also really love the idea of pairing them with that suede trench because you're getting two kind of major fall moments in one outfit. And again, that can be an outfit formula that you repeat all fall. And then the third thing I always pay attention to is shoes. You can have the most basic outfit on and getting the right shoe can completely change it.

17:24Let's Get Dressed Host: I love a fall boot. I get so excited to pull my boots out. And I found these Vince Camuto Julia pointed toe booties in like this dark brown, which is just like the perfect brown for fall. Again, it's the unofficial mascot of fall dressing. I feel like I'm wearing brown all fall season. I love a pointed toe. I love a block heel. They feel really polished, but still wearable. So great if you're going to the office, but you can also wear them from the office to drinks at night. So if you want the easiest possible fall cheat sheet, mine would be add that something suede, update your denim to a nice dark rich wash and start to bring in those great fall boots.

18:02Let's Get Dressed Host: A big thanks to Macy's for sponsoring this segment. And you can shop now for all of your fall favorites at Macy's. Quick break from today's episode because I have a fall trend cheat sheet for you guys. And I know a lot of you are thinking, okay, what am I actually supposed to buy? There is so much out there in the world. And of course, I have the answers, courtesy of Macy's. First, I would always go for something chocolate brown. I feel like this is the time of year where it really starts creeping in and it is the official fall mascot. It's everywhere. I especially love it in suede, like think a great suede jacket, bag, or shoe.

18:34Let's Get Dressed Host: It adds so much richness and texture to any outfit. Second, dark indigo denim. This is the biggest shift that I make when I go from summer to fall. It is the easiest update because you can wear it exactly like your favorite jeans, but that really deep saturated wash immediately makes the whole look feel more polished. And then finally, I really love anything with that like retro Americana feeling. Think heritage plaids, checks, stripes, classic reds and blues. I think you should pick one thing you absolutely love and work it into what you already own. Fall is such a fun time to get dressed, and Macy's makes it really easy to find all of those fall updates all in one place.

19:12Let's Get Dressed Host: A quick break from today's episode to share a little bit about one of my favorite rituals. You guys know that I think getting dressed is about so much more than just clothes. It's really a whole ritual for me. I have music on, it's about my mood, and even how the room around me feels. And that's one of the reasons why I love having a Pura scent in my closet. Scent is almost like another layer of getting dressed. before I've even picked out an outfit, I can actually set the mood of the room. And right now, my favorite is their cozy cashmere scent. It's so perfect for fall. It's warm, soft, and exactly the level of calm I want my closet to feel in the fall mornings.

19:48Let's Get Dressed Host: And I love that that feeling doesn't just have to stop there. With Pura, I can have different diffusers throughout my home and control the fragrance, intensity, and schedule right from my phone. So I can create one feeling in my closet, another in the kitchen, another in the bedroom, and make every room feel intentional. Pira has hundreds of premium, clean, and safe fragrances, so you can really personalize the scent of your home to you. Discover your sense of place at pira.com. I want to get into some of the investments that you've made and what you actually think is an investment. I think hearing that when you started to really put more effort into Miss Dow Jones, you built out a wardrobe.

20:27Let's Get Dressed Host: Where did you go? What were you buying? And what did you decide to invest in in that moment?

20:33Haley Sacks: Well, this is very me where at the beginning when I made that decision, I was like, OK, let me do it in the cheapest way possible, which always ends up sort of shooting me in the foot. Like I do think that you end up spending money twice because I am like trying to be thrifty, which is, you know, I don't recommend it. No. So I mean, at that point, it was a lot of getting rid of stuff, building out the basics, like I said, and I still believe in this. Like I think the best money that I ever spend each season is like a new white t-shirt, a new black tank top, new jeans, like boots that I'm going to wear 100 million days.

21:06Haley Sacks: I think coats are an amazing investment, like things like that. But for a woman's work wardrobe, I think you need a pair of great black slacks, like truly like find a pair, get them tailored. I I'm very tall. How tall are you? I'm like 5 '11". Yep. J. Crew tall, does not miss. I just got a pair of their navy slacks that are tall and they're maybe like$89 and they look so expensive. And this is like the power of styling too, because I have like a blue shirt that I got from Mango and they're both sort of in the same shade of navy. And then when you put them together with like cool jewelry, you look so put together.

21:45And it's like, that's a look,

21:47Haley Sacks: you know, it's so much more about how you put it together than like if you're buying expensive of things. So I think you need great Navy. You need a pair of loafers is helpful. Or if you're like a flats person is really good. White button down. Amazing. I think the laser, if you're comfortable in it or just some sort of jacket is great. That gives a good shape. Yeah. Good shape is awesome. And then you need a great bag like and that I think is worth it. Like I think bag goes in the same category as coat and shoes where you're going to get and jewelry, honestly, where you get the highest cost per wear and you can have it forever.

22:19Haley Sacks: So and but we were talking about this that we both love Bottega Veneta because it's like so not trendy. No, you can wear it forever. Forever. One of my best investments was a Bottega bag. A hundred percent. So and like so I have a Bottega tote that I've had forever that unfortunately my dog did like a little bit of it, but it's OK. I still wear it. It was I got it right before it got bad. I panic. I panic. Oh, my God. Oh, I'll send you a picture. It's not it's just like a little I'm like, OK, the resale value was cooked, but it doesn't even look boutique. It's just like a beautiful brown suede bag that I could wear all the time.

22:50Haley Sacks: And just like, you know, something like that. I think it's nice. You know, women always ask me, what should I do with my first paycheck? I want to buy a bag. I want to buy a pair of diamond earrings. Like they want something that that marks the occasion of making that first paycheck. And I do think that buying like a great accessory that you can wear over and over is worth it.

23:09Let's Get Dressed Host: After you've done the 50, 30, 20. Yes.

23:12Haley Sacks: But I always say like, Yes, but even in my book in Future Rich Person, like so much of my financial philosophy is like, don't be financially anorexic. Like you can't, you're never going to get ahead. It's like, OK, we've all dieted, right? If you go on a really intense diet, you're going to binge. So it's the same thing with your finances. If I tell you to never spend money on anything that you want, you're going to then have a Tuesday night where you're upset and you had a hard day and you're going to go like in a trance and Apple pay like Apple be paying and buy like one, you know, 10 things.

23:45Haley Sacks: Whereas if you had just bought like one thing mindfully or two things mindfully, that would be so much better.

23:49Let's Get Dressed Host: That literally happened to me. Yes. I was at Paris Fashion Week a few seasons ago and I was like, I'm going to be good this season. I don't need anything. I'm here. I'm living my life. I didn't buy anything for eight days in Paris, which is hard. Yeah. Not not an easy thing. I'm in the airport. My flight is boarding in 30 minutes. Stop. There's a Bottega on the way to my gate. And I was like, you know what? I just want to see what they have in the airport. You know, like, let's just see what the airport shopping is all about. I bought a Bottega bag. Stop. With 30 minutes left. And it was almost the hop.

24:19Let's Get Dressed Host: And I wear it every day. Yeah. But it was almost like I was strangling myself for seven days and then really, really went wild after that. And I think about that all the time. I'm like, it's because you were too rigid. Exactly. Yeah. You needed to go wild. You needed to rebel.

24:32Haley Sacks: Yeah, exactly. You need like a little flexibility. Right. So I think it's so important to build that into your budget. And I think that there's like two things that we're talking about, right? There's one part of this, which is building out your work wardrobe, which really should be a capsule wardrobe and doesn't have to be expensive. But I think you have great advice and there's great advice online. I'm not a fashion expert, So I'm not the person to like live and breathe by what pieces I'm telling you to get. But I can help you with the finance part of it. I think that like when you're starting your career, you're in your career where you're showing up to the office, which I think is really valuable.

25:04Haley Sacks: Go to the office if you can go make those connections in person. But it is about looking good. And so put money towards that. And I think that's actually an investment in your future you. But just try and do it in a way that's that's mindful, you know, where you are going to like a J.Crew or a Zara or like any of even though I'm probably a horrible person for recommending fast fashion-y places. Unfortunately, like it's that, or you are buying something that's so expensive designer, or you're taking, you know, you're someone who's really good at shopping and can go find it vintage or thrifting.

25:35Haley Sacks: And maybe that's not who you are. So, you know, it feels like a broader recommendation.

25:40Let's Get Dressed Host: Do you find that you're very good about staying within your percentage? My 50, 30, 20?

25:47Haley Sacks: Yeah, I actually am really good at it. I mean, I, but I am an impulse shopper. Like I clear my cookies all the time. Like I said, 20 percent of Instagram is ads. You're going to see the crop trench coat. And it's just our human nature that if you see something 10 times, you're going to want it. Right. And so buy a printer, like I said, return it as soon as possible. That's really my like savior is. And it takes so much time. And it's like I wish that I didn't impulse shop at all. But unfortunately, I do. I think it really is just a sign of the times it's hard. I'm online all the time reading articles, researching things for Mrs.

26:21Haley Sacks: Dow Jones. And if I clicked on one thing on one website, it then follows me around the Internet forever. And then, you know, maybe I'm having brain rot after five hours of meetings and I impulsively buy it. You know what I mean? So you said you clear your cookies a lot, right? So the things don't follow you. Yes, because smart. Yeah. That's a really good tip, too, because and I never accept the cookies. Right. Where it says allow all. No, deny all. Yeah. So can't see you.

26:45Let's Get Dressed Host: I also like the I like the return part about it because recently I've made a big effort to not shop at places that don't have a 30-day return policy.

26:52Haley Sacks: That's good.

26:53Let's Get Dressed Host: Because I find that when we get things, we're so excited about it that we take it out of the box, throw away the box, and then it's in our closet. And if you don't wear it within those 30 days, you were not meant to have it. I agree. So a lot of the times I will actually keep something in my home with the box nearby. Maybe it's in my office to really see if I'm actually reaching for it. And not just on that like first time, can't wait to unbox something. I'm going to wear it to dinner that night. Like, are you excited to wear it continuously again throughout the month? I also was reading something about someone was talking about what style is and they were like

27:23Haley Sacks: style is not when you are wearing the thing that you just took the tags off of. Totally. Style is when you're wearing something that you know well that's like a like a weathered like well has a well-earned part of your closet that like it has earned that space there and like you are familiar with that piece. And that has stuck with me so much because I'm like, it makes me want to build a wardrobe more that is filled with those pieces that I really love versus, yeah, just going for the impulse and the trends.

27:54Let's Get Dressed Host: And I think it's a good thing to remind yourself when you're like, oh, but nothing feels better than something with the tags on. Oh, because it does. Like that is a sickeningly good feeling. Yes.

28:04Haley Sacks: I will also say what you said about getting dressed and making it more about styling. I think also really understanding your body, which has been helpful with me with working with a stylist where it's like, yeah, I'm really tall. I don't like to wear things that are tight around my like like I wouldn't wear like a midriff bearing top or things like that. Like I'm not really as much a barrel leg person because I have long legs, like just like things that you like. I really like halter necks, like things that are I don't know, like random things that you're like, you know about you with styling that can help you choose pieces better.

28:39Let's Get Dressed Host: So all to say, I'm curious from someone who does work in finance and does use these terms actually from a financial perspective, as we're talking about buying things and figuring out what to actually have in our wardrobe, when people say clothes are an investment, are they actually an investment? Okay.

28:59Haley Sacks: Clothes are an investment in your future, right? Because I was saying about the data, you make more money when you're wearing makeup, when you look good, all those things. But an investment to me is something that grows in value. So the clothes are not the investment.

29:15Let's Get Dressed Host: You in the clothes are the investment because it's the

29:18Haley Sacks: J.Crew pants or whatever, the Bottega bag that you wear to death. These are not going to actually make money the way that something in the stock market would. But the girl who is wearing that bag every day and showing up to work like first went in, nailing her meetings, feeling confident because she loves her outfit. She feels good about herself and she's able to just focus on work because she's not like self-conscious in her body or about her outfit or like feeling insecure in any way. And she just can be her full self. That is the investment to become that person. But when you see people online being like, get the Birkin, it's an investment.

29:54Haley Sacks: It's not an investment. Luxury handbags, not an investment. Clothing, not an investment. Like I just like sold so much clothing and I made, I think I made$8 ,000, but it was probably I spent $20 ,000 overall on those clothes on that clothing. There was a Chanel bag in there that I bought that was so ugly, you know? And so it's like, it's the actual items are not what's going to make you money. It's you in the items, how you feel.

30:20Let's Get Dressed Host: So when we are online and we see like the investment jacket, the investment thing, it's propaganda.

30:24Haley Sacks: It's all propaganda. Yeah. Yeah, it's all marketing. They love to say that. And you will see it now. I love that you brought that up because whenever you go on any of those websites, Net-a-Porter, Mode Operante, any of those fashion websites, they will always have a part that it's about investments and it's never actually an investment. Even diamonds, which people used to be obsessed with, it's like now because of lab diamonds, all of the value of any diamond has gone down. So I think it's more about who you are in the pieces versus the actual items. And if you really want to invest in something it's going to make you money, invest in the stock market.

30:58Haley Sacks: But if you want to make money in this world, you have to look put together.

31:02Let's Get Dressed Host: But also, I think one very big misconception about this, like investing in yourself, investing in the way that you look, people think that they have to go buy new things. But at the end of the day, I actually think the investment is the time to care. Oh, I love that. Like it's it's not just assuming that you're going to like get ready in the morning and look good. It's the like fact that they have a wardrobe and they build a wardrobe of those colors. Yeah. It's the fact that they, you know, like your mom, she's looking at the blues. Yeah. Like it's effort. It's not money.

31:31Haley Sacks: It's effort and time to really care about what you're putting on. The intention. Yeah. But you can care what you're putting on and not know where to start. Right. Because you're so overwhelmed by your you go in your closet and you're just like, where do I even begin? So what do you say to someone like that?

31:45Let's Get Dressed Host: I think cleaning out your closet is always like my baseline. It's always like if you walk into your closet and you're overwhelmed is because you have too much. So scale it back a little bit. But I also, I, after you've cleaned it out, I just don't think people spend enough time in their closet. So they're overwhelmed because they don't know what to put on. It's like we go to the gym for an hour, spend that hour in your closet, trying things on and find what makes you feel like you. Again, it's a time thing. I just don't think a lot of people want to give your clothes and what you put on every day, the same investment as we do with a lot of other things.

32:18Let's Get Dressed Host: But how you dress and how you show up in the world every day has a big impact on mental health. So I think that needs to be given more time and effort. And honestly, there are times where I go into my closet and I'm overwhelmed and have no idea what to wear. It's a weekly event for me. I walk in and I'm like, I don't know how to get dressed for this thing. And then there's clothes all over the floor. But in that 30 minutes to an hour, that's making me like so late for something. I'm on Pinterest. I'm like looking up orange skirt outfits or I'm looking up classic Ralph Lauren jean outfit. It's like I'm trying to feed my brain and solve the problem at the same time.

32:53Let's Get Dressed Host: And again, I just don't think that that is the most like common way that people engage with their closet. And it's something I really encourage like get in there and be creative.

33:00Haley Sacks: I think that's such a good tip too is like Pinterest. You can find such good outfit formulas.

33:06Let's Get Dressed Host: And so like if you find like sometimes sometimes sometimes. Yeah. Yeah.

33:10Haley Sacks: But like if you have like one piece where you're like I want to wear this. I don't know how to style this. Looking it up. So smart.

33:15Let's Get Dressed Host: I think you have to be very specific. I never go on there and just scroll. I'm going on there and saying like dark wash jean outfit, brown sweater outfit. Like that's how I get my wheels turning. You have to be specific with it. I love that. Yeah. I cannot skip over the Chanel that you bought that you hated.

33:34Haley Sacks: How does that happen? I know. So this was crazy. So I had like this was when I like this in the sort of the same time period of when the business started to make money. So I went on a trip and I buy a lot of vintage designer handbags. OK. And that's I love doing that. And so I went to Paris and it was a moment where the dollar was really strong and the euro was weak. So you were what a time to be alive, what a time to be alive. So what a time it really was. And so I was like, whoa, OK, like and I had never bought I never had anything from Chanel and I had never bought certainly bought anything new from Chanel.

34:10Haley Sacks: And I was like, this is so cool. I'm going to like buy myself a Chanel bag. But I was I had no idea like what my perspective was or who I what I wanted going in. And so I ended up buying the ugliest Chanel bag of all time. I know it was the 19. So like had that horribly heavy chain, like sort of mixed metal, puffy leather, like just brutal and it was big talk about an impulse buy it was so talk about an impulse buy I didn't love it in the moment but I think I wanted to get it to like prove something or like to prove to myself that I could and I never really wore it and so in my head I was like oh should I save it for my daughter like but I was like you know I really don't like this bag so much and I spent six thousand dollars on it which was a lot of money but compared to other Chanel bags because

35:03Let's Get Dressed Host: That's like the baseline of Chanel Vex.

35:05Haley Sacks: I know. So I'm like, oh, like, and so I was able to resell it for$5 ,000. Great. Which wasn't bad. But again, not an investment. I lost money on it, but also not a complete loss. And a relief to have it out of my closet and then to be able to be like, you know, what am I going to do with that money instead? What did you do with that money instead? Well, I have it now. So I'm going to but I will use it on Thursday. I think when I I'll buy like a coat and boots and and maybe a pair of jeans.

35:36Let's Get Dressed Host: So that's actually what I do. Yeah. All of the money that I spend on my wardrobe is from things that I have like rehomed, sold, depopped, reel reeled. Like that's how I set my budget every month. A little economy. It is its own economy. Yeah. It's, you know, its own little. It feeds itself. Self-funding thing. Yeah. And for me, like that's what makes me feel comfortable because I am a freelancer. and because every month and every year is different, like what goes out can come back in. And that's how I rationalize.

36:03Haley Sacks: But then you also have to have a good eye of buying things that people will want to rebuy. I still think for the average person, just avoiding trends is a good place to start. Avoiding trends, investing in a timeless piece that like you can wear a ton. Like I think a good bag is, you're never going to get sick of it. Doesn't have to be Bottega. Like there's so many great bag brands. Ben Ben, I think it's called.

36:29Let's Get Dressed Host: Ben Ben. Ben Ben. Yeah, it's so cute. A lot of good like kind of Bottega-y.

36:32Haley Sacks: Yeah, Bottega-y like woven leather looks so good. And then, yeah, I think it's really important to set yourself up for the office to look professional. And I do actually think that that is when you look at your budget, taking money out of your wants that month. So maybe you're, you know, going out to dinner less with your friends or you're not traveling or whatever it is that you spend money on. and you're buying less plants, you're not getting a manicure, whatever the things are that you do with your resources that are fun or whatever, paring back a little so that you can actually spend money on that clothing, you will see a huge investment in yourself.

37:11Let's Get Dressed Host: Okay, we need to get into the Birkins because we skidded over that a little too fast.

37:16Haley Sacks: Oh, God.

37:17Let's Get Dressed Host: I think we're in a time right now where actually the Birkin is as... Yeah, this is so interesting. Not valuable and not desired than ever. I see them everywhere on the street. I think they're not the exclusive and elusive piece that they used to be. However, they're still marketed as the number one investment asset that you can have in your closet. Is asset the wrong word?

37:43Haley Sacks: Asset is so the wrong word. As someone who fell for this hook, line, and sinker, which by the way, of course I did. There are so many articles about the Birkin beats the S &P 500. The Birkin outperforms gold. And so I thought that I was a slam dunk and that if I ever got access to a Birkin, I should just buy it because this is something that is going to always go up in value. And so for around my 30th birthday, there was this woman on Upper East Side who was getting divorced and she was like liquidating a lot of her assets. And so she sold me her Birkin that was like quite used for$7 ,000, which like I thought was a good idea because it's like retail maybe 12 to 15.

38:24Haley Sacks: But I would never be able to get the retail because I haven't played the Hermes game of like that whole MLM of buying things. And then you get access to, you know, get blessed with the opportunity to actually buy the Birkin, whatever, the whole thing.

38:39Let's Get Dressed Host: You don't even need to do that anymore. There's Birkins all over the RealReal.

38:41Haley Sacks: Yeah, exactly. like that's just my thought yeah there's so many yeah and so but so then I was like okay sick I got this Birkin I put it on I felt like a boss bitch I was like this rocks I wear it my back I'm hunched over like I'm literally like it's like wearing a suitcase like truly it is the heaviest bag I don't understand that's the first part of it besides the fact that it's so not an investment because I'll tell you about trying to resell it and there's no resale value there I'm also like the bag is beautiful. It is so beautiful. I will give it that. But it is not practical. It is so heavy.

39:13Haley Sacks: Like who's wearing a Birkin every day? You'd need someone to carry it for you. I think that's the point. Yeah, put a computer in it. What do you mean? Like my back, it's already in a precarious place. I can't afford that. Yeah. But then so I tried to resell it. Nothing.

39:26Let's Get Dressed Host: Well, once you wear it, this is the thing. Like they say that once you take the stickers off, you've already decreased the value. So I've always been so kind of disillusioned by this, like investment asset Hermes situation, because the second you wear something, you're decreasing the value. And what's the point in buying something if you're not going to wear it?

39:43Haley Sacks: That's so true. But also it's like the bastardization of the Birkin, because what was this like? I mean, the whole story is so cool, right? Like Jane Birkin was always using a straw bag and she ended up on the airplane next to the designer of Hermes. And she was trying to shove her straw bag in the overhead compartment. And he was like, why are you doing that? Like, we'll make you a bag that will work better than that. And they made the Birkin. It was supposed to be this industrial piece for like a woman on the go, you know, made of the finest leather. You could have it forever. It was an heirloom.

40:13Haley Sacks: It was the one bag that you needed. I'm sure you saw so many at Fashion Week.

40:17Let's Get Dressed Host: I did. I mean, I saw quite a few different ones this year, which I'm always an advocate for the other styles. Like, let's give them more love.

40:23Haley Sacks: The Bicotin?

40:24Let's Get Dressed Host: Yeah, I'm a Kelly girl. I love a Kelly. And they're light. Yeah, I actually don't. I like the larger Kelly sizes. Like I have a Kelly 30. That is like my favorite thing in the world. I will agree with you that like it only has like a hand strap. So it's not the easiest thing to carry around. You can't put a laptop in there again. You're like hunting over.

40:42Haley Sacks: But I have a Kelly too and I wear it like it's actually like light. Yeah. It's a

40:46Let's Get Dressed Host: it's a way in my opinion. It's like the elite Hermes bag in my opinion. I love it.

40:51Haley Sacks: I love it.

40:51Let's Get Dressed Host: Yeah. What do you think of terms like cost per wear, girl math? I hate girl math.

40:56Haley Sacks: Yeah. Like cost per wear I'm behind. Okay. Because I think that I mean, even when we talked about fast fashion that people the cost per wear or the amount that people wear the fast fashion is 10 times. I'm like, buy things that you are going to wear a million times. I always got this. I have this beat up Patagonia jacket that I wear to walk my dog. And I'm like, low key, that is the high like lowest cost per wear thing in my closet. Right. Even I don't even like like the way it looks necessarily was just so I need it because it's like wear it whenever it's cold out or whatever, you know.

41:27Let's Get Dressed Host: I think it's good to know those things because actually when I wear something frequently, even if it's a sweat pant, I go back and I'm like, oh, I'm going to buy more of that.

41:34Haley Sacks: Yeah. Yeah. And you sort of what's messed up, too, is like usually the thing with the lowest cost per wear, you like are valuing almost the least in your closet. Like the sweat pant, you're not like, you're like, OK, let me buy that dress for the event that I'm going to wear once. Oh, and then the sweatpants that I wear literally every day that have holes in them, I could never. Yeah, I can't. I can't. I can't replace those.

41:56Let's Get Dressed Host: So do you think that girl math is just like the evil stepsister of cost per wear? Because it is kind of the same thing, but it's a term used for impulse, I think. Oh, girl math. I'll girl math it.

42:05Haley Sacks: Well, I think that the issue of girl math is that it's gendered, right? Like there's nothing wrong with looking at a purchase and breaking it down by the amount that you're going to use it. Or as you're saying, even looking at your budget for fashion in the way of what did I resell in order to fund it. These are all savvy, smart things to do. But I think the issue is that it becomes female when it becomes like that you're sort of hiding something from yourself or you have to trick yourself into dealing with your finances. And that to me is just so dangerous because women are already like we're brought up in a world that tells us that we're bad with money.

42:52Haley Sacks: Men are taught to negotiate. They're taught to invest. We're taught to coupon and like to scrimp and save and to basically be grateful that we even have a invite to the table, let alone ask for more. And so it just perpetuates this idea that like women are bad with money. We can't be trusted. It slips through our fingers. We spend it all on avocado toast and we're always at Target, doing hauls. And also I think it's made being a woman with money a joke online, which I absolutely despise. Like it's now created this whole bucket of content of women being like, when you when you go to Target and you went to buy toothpaste and then you end up buying eight hundred dollars worth of stuff and then you have to hide the receipt from your husband or being like, girl math, like me asking my husband if telling my husband that I would go to pay the mortgage as a prank because like she would like, you know, like just making it a joke that like you could ever be good with money.

43:45Haley Sacks: And I just see from the other side, I see every day I read and I get submitted horror stories from women who have put their time and effort into building homes and building lives with a partner, usually a man, without ever really advocating for equality on paper, you know, like having the right prenup or postnup or their name on things or understanding how the house works or, you know, how much the mortgage is or what, you know, how to log into the credit card account so you can see how much people are actually spending. And then something happens and they're left with nothing. And, you know, you can I think for women, especially we have so much on our plates.

44:31Haley Sacks: We you know, you're taking care of the household. You're taking care of kids. You know, you're taking care of yourself. Maybe you have aging parents that you're taking care of. And so if you have someone, a partner who's like, I'll take care of the finances, it feels like a great idea. Oh my God, amazing. You're going to take care of the finances. Great, babe. One thing off my plate. But no, you should never, ever abdicate control of money. It's the one thing you should never outsource because that is abdicating control of your life.

44:59Let's Get Dressed Host: I want to get into a few traps that women can fall into while we're talking about this or shoppers in general, anyone that's listening that loves fashion. What do you think about those buy now, pay later? What do you think about that? Oh, like an enemy of their state.

45:13Haley Sacks: Like I've gotten like so many like cease and desist emails from them because all that I do is say for people not to use them. I think, look, debt, taking out debt, taking out a loan can is actually something that rich people do all the time. Like rich people love to take out mortgages. They love to leverage things. So it's not that borrowing money is bad, but it's just you want to always borrow money for something that is increasing in value. So like a degree is going to maybe make you money or a house will hopefully go up in value in the future. So these are things that it's OK to borrow for, but don't borrow for things that are going to just that have absolutely no value, like a Reformation dress.

45:55Haley Sacks: They are paid by the stores. So like Reformation will pay to have buy now pay later at their checkout because it increases the amount that the customer spends. So just know that, that literally like they're up to no good. They're scheming us in the background. Yeah, they are. They are.

46:13Let's Get Dressed Host: Yeah.

46:13Haley Sacks: Okay. Splitting things on credit cards. I think that if you can't afford it once, you can't afford it. And I've like, you know, I've been I've been at Allo at the checkout and seeing people like in front of me in their bank accounts, moving money from one place to another so they can afford, you know, the hoodie du jour and whatever it is. And, you know, clothes are not worth that. You know that we have a you're so much better off to and also like focus on your own human capital versus trying to look rich, actually focus on becoming rich.

46:47Let's Get Dressed Host: When you're buying something, do you ever wait a day before you buy it? Do you ever buy things on the spot or do you tell people to wait?

46:53Haley Sacks: I always tell people to wait three days before you pay, which helps so much. Like, and when I do it successfully, it is amazing because you forget about so much stuff. Like I remember I wanted the Alaya fishnet shoes so bad because I actually think they're really comfortable. Their shoes, like I saw your mess. Yeah, they're like great. But I was obsessed with them and I was like, oh my God, I need them. I need them. I forgot about them.

47:19Let's Get Dressed Host: There you go. Until just now, like I like I was like, oh, that was the last thing that I was

47:23Haley Sacks: really like hyper focused on.

47:25Let's Get Dressed Host: One of my favorite designers, she's on the Upper East Side and it's a salon style shopping experience and everything is made from dead stock. Everything's one of one. Her name, the brand is called One Of. And when you go there and try things on with her, you're not allowed to buy anything on the spot. Oh, that's so cool. She sends you like a PDF a few days later of the price of everything. And she's like, nope, I want you to go home and think about it. And I think that's how everything should be.

47:46Haley Sacks: I love that.

47:47Let's Get Dressed Host: I want to go to her. Oh, she's amazing. She's pricey. But again, it's pieces that those are like lifetime pieces. Okay. I love that. Yeah. She's really great. Okay. We end the show with a segment called receipts. So I want to know what was the best investment you've ever made for your closet? And if it wasn't actually an investment, you can call it something else.

48:05Haley Sacks: My best investment was probably that Dries Van Noten dress. For sure. Yeah.

48:11Let's Get Dressed Host: The cost per wear of it. Yeah. It's been huge.

48:13Haley Sacks: And yeah, and like the cost per wear of it, but also the think about how much people spend per wedding on buying the new dress. And it's always like the$200 dress here and the like$300 dress there. And like you just want to wear the new thing and sort of just like being like, I don't care. I know that you've seen this dress before. It was so freeing because like, you know, men wear the same suit to every wedding. Why can't I wear the same dress to one? So not only did it save like it was expensive and it was great cost per wear on that piece. But it also saved me so much on occasion buying.

48:47Let's Get Dressed Host: Also the mental, the amount of time I spend buying new dresses for weddings. I've had like four or five weddings this year. It's crazy. And then my husband just shows up in the same suit.

48:56Haley Sacks: And you looked so good at your wedding.

48:58Let's Get Dressed Host: Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. I love this conversation. I really like learned so much from you and I love how your worlds blend. And I hope that this is like the first of many conversations that we have. Thank you so much for all of your advice. Thank you. Of course.