Marie Claire's Editor-in-Chief Nikki Ogunnaike on Breaking Media Molds, Why She'll Never Have A Capsule Wardrobe, And The 2025 Met Gala

0:01Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. Happy Met Monday to all those who celebrate. Today is Fashion Super Bowl. But those of you who don't know, the Met Gala is tonight. It is always the first Monday in May. And it's actually just a fundraiser that raises money for the Metropolitan Museum of Arts Costume Institute. And of course, with an epic red carpet. Tonight will be hosted by Anna Wintour, alongside some incredible names like Coleman Domingo, Pharrell Williams, and an equally as epic host committee like Ayo Adeburi, Jeremy O 'Harris, Andre 3000, and so many more.

0:39So I cannot wait to see what everybody wears. Make sure you stick around to the end of the episode because our guest today and I get into so much more towards the end of the episode. Today, I am joined by the one and only Nikki Ogunake. She is the editor-in-chief of Marie Claire Magazine, whose career has spanned truly all the incredible magazines out there today, InStyle, GQ, Elle, and Harper's Bazaar. She actually got her start at Vanity Affair as an intern and has risen through the ranks to now be an editor-in-chief. So we, of course, talk about what it takes to navigate the magazine world.

1:10We also chat the current media landscape, how it's dramatically changing, and how she's putting her stamp on her Marie Claire. We also chat all things wardrobe from her deep love of watches to a really compelling case against capsule wardrobes. I hope you guys love this episode. Now let's go get dressed with Nikki Okanake. I haven't seen you in New York in so long. I'm just happy anytime I get to see you, no matter what side of the world it's on. I know. Yeah, it's thrilling. Also, you are, for those of you watching on YouTube, you are like perfectly matched to this room today. I'm really happy for the thumbnail that you're going to get.

1:47Thank you. It's so funny. I had originally planned on wearing a yellow button down, but I switched purple last minute and I I feel like this vibes with it. So I'm excited. Yeah. Also, I just watched you come in. You came off the subway. You walked here. And I loved watching you completely assemble yourself post-subway. The shoes were changed. A watch was put on. The gloss was put on. So this is the thing. And I think it dovetails nicely with like your question that you often ask. Like, how do you get dressed? Or like, what do you dress for? Oh, she knows the show. She's here. I am a watcher. I'm a viewer.

2:21I'm a listener. I dress for function. Like I actually hate sitting in cars in New York City. I find it to be like I get a little car sick. I get boring. It's a waste of time. So if I can take the train anywhere, if it's like less than an hour, I'm in the train. But I live like almost half a mile from the train. So it's usually a sneaker on the way to the train, if not a sneaker all day. I don't tend to wear a ton of my jewelry on the train. It's just like a comfort level thing for me. And so it's usually in my bag. I'm generally carrying some sort of tote bag. and like you've told me in the past, like it really is for function.

2:56Like I'm dressing for whatever the day may throw at me and knowing that I may be out for, you know, six, seven hours without the possibility of changing, like the look has to last all day. You know that I ride for New York. Like I wish I still lived here, but I don't. But I will say the one thing I do not miss is leaving my door at like eight or 9 a.m. and arriving back at eight or 9 p.m. Right. And having to dress for the whole day. No, it's like, it's wonderful when it's a Saturday and you don't know where your day is going to take you. Yeah, that's different though. We romanticize life in New York on Saturdays.

3:33Exactly. It's completely different. But during the week, it definitely is like, okay, how is this look going to get me from like when I most likely leave my house if I have like a training session in the morning? You know, I'm leaving my house at like 7 a.m. And then if I have a dinner at night, I'm not getting home until like 10 p.m. Isn't that crazy? Do you have a bag of clothes? What's going on? The I have like a. It's sort of like I have a little bit everywhere, really. So like I generally have my computer with me like in my tote bag at my computer with me, a small makeup bag. I have a change of clothes that I keep at my trainers.

4:07Yeah. Office shoes. So if I need a heel or something like a shoe that can go with a little bit of everything at the desk. And then I have like obviously my closet and stuff at home. The New York way of life, baby. Everyone knows that if you're a New Yorker, like you know, you know it. I love it. I know. I love that you dress for function because I think if you're a New Yorker, you're usually dressing for function. And I also think it's a good like rule of thumb to get dressed in the morning. Like I think a lot of the times I can overthink it over a dress. Who am I seeing? What am I wearing? And it's just like, hey, like put on something that's going to get you through the day stylishly, but also comfortably.

4:42Totally. I also think you hit a point sort of in your time here in your life where you're just sort of like, I need to dress for me and I need to dress for like what my actual life is like, you know, the old adage is like dress for the job you want. And it's like, no, I actually need to dress for the job I have, which is like living in New York City and running around all over the place. And so that means like loafers or cute sneakers, like never a flip flop or a sandal outside because I think that's kind of gross in New York City. It's kind of gross. So, you know, it's a sneaker. Wow. So what are like, what's the take on flip flops being?

5:13Never, never, Never. Beach only. Beach only. Okay. I'll do a Birkenstock. Yep. Yeah. There's like a little bit there. Yeah. But like I'm actually very amazed by women who wear flip-flops in New York City. Yeah. You probably are not spending that much time outside. No. So I just wrote on my sub stack about how I think flip-flops are coming back or they've already been back. But like I see them. Especially expensive flip-flops. I'm like you live in New York and like listen I love the row. I get it. No, no, no, no, no. know, but that's the$700 flip flop, the rubber flip flop with the cotton strap for$700.

5:49Couldn't be me. The people that I see wearing those, I'm like, it's a different lifestyle. It's a different lifestyle. It's not what I have. I'm like, happy for you. Love that. Couldn't be me. No, never. Yeah, I have just been talking about that. I actually I styled a look. I haven't posted it yet on my Instagram, but like I wore like linen shorts with like a linen blazer and Javianas. cute. It was cute. Yeah. And I'm a serial overdresser. But you're in a car. Absolutely. Maybe this was the main point I need to get across, guys. It's like, it's just not for the New Yorkers. It's just not for the New Yorkers.

6:23I mean, listen, more power to you if you are like fine having your feet out. You're not stepping in like crap like whatever. Like the New York City life that I'm living, it does not, a flip-flop does not fit in. No. Watch you see me in a flip-flop tomorrow and be like, what? Fine. Just tell me that you washed your feet before you walked in your house. That's all. It's fine. It's okay. So funny. I'm loving what you're wearing today. Again, I said you match this backdrop perfectly, but you and I were talking last week about how one of the things I love most about your style is like how much color and print you really bring to the table.

6:53Yeah. And you do it so effortlessly and it just always looks so cool. Tell me a little bit about how you do that for people who might be. I always like to say like there's definitely that community of people who are color shy. Like they don't like they have all black in their closet. They don't want to incorporate anything. Yeah. You know, I think color is the easiest way to make an impact. The print for me is generally a stripe. Like I'm not a floral, a ditzy floral kind of girl. But I find that if I'm wearing stripes or if I am wearing color, that is like a low effort, high impact way of dressing.

7:29And so my philosophy sort of is like, OK, instead of wearing a white button down, wear a purple one like the one I'm wearing today or wear a blue one or wear a striped red one. Like it's a very similar way of dressing. You just sort of kick it up a notch and like don't rely on the old faithfuls. You rely on sort of the elevated or the unexpected take of that old faithful. I always say with color, it's like take that item that you wear all the time that's like really easy and you don't even think about it and maybe get it in a color. 100%. Like don't overthink it. We're not talking like a red pair of pants here.

8:00Like if Or if we are, right? It's like, okay, so say you wear jeans every day. Right. Get a red pair of jeans and figure out how you can, and then wear that with a white shirt. Like there are ways to incorporate color, I think, into your wardrobe where you really don't have to overthink it. Instead of wearing a white t-shirt, wear a red one. Yeah. I love that. I do see you in stripes a lot. I'm a big striped girl. I think it's a really great way to look very polished. Yeah. Right? but you're at the end of the day just sort of wearing like a t-shirt or a button down. Do you believe in the no horizontal stripe rule?

8:35Oh no. I don't believe in any rules and I really like have a lot of problems or I struggle with prescriptive fashion. So do I. I think it's kind of lame honestly. I don't think it's like you know when you think about people who are getting dressed like I don't know your life. I don't know what you're going through. If you like to wear horizontal stripes like who am I to tell you you can't? Yeah. We just had this conversation about like seasonal colors. And I saw a friend for lunch the other day and she was wearing that amazing new Ferragamo bag. Yeah. And like a beautiful brown suede. And she was like, oh, I don't want to get rid of this for summer.

9:08Get rid of it for summer. Or like put it away for summer. And I was like, well, you don't have to like you're wearing a she was wearing like a red and white striped button down with like light blue jeans and loafers. And I was like, I would be wearing what you're wearing right now through the whole summer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My entire wardrobe, for the most part, unless it's like literal functionality of clothing, like can last all seasons. It should. I think that's the smartest way of shopping and of dressing. But that's a mentality shift. That's like I still get people DMing me being like, can I wear white after Labor Day?

9:40Stop. I'm like, guys, I'm literally always in white. Of course you can. Yeah. And then like who's like the fashion police are going to come and get you? Like who's going to stop you from wearing it? No, I know. It's crazy. That's so funny. We had a great conversation last week about capsule wardrobes. Hate them. And I know you hate them. Yeah. I like love reading the articles about you being like, yeah, it's a no. And it's interesting. It's another thing I still get asked. I actually, I do an AMA every weekend and I just got asked this Sunday, hey Liv, how do I use Pinterest to help make my capsule wardrobe?

10:11And I was like, don't. Yeah. The thing I think is interesting about capsule wardrobes, and I've written about this, like I've been in fashion media for like 15 years now. And the thing that I write about or the thing that sort of like irks me about capsule wardrobes and what I've written about often is, again, this sort of taking a prescriptive way of looking at things when it comes to your clothing. I don't think that there should be one capsule wardrobe for each person. Right. Or maybe we like ban the word capsule wardrobe. I've been thinking about new words for it. I'm like, is it our core wardrobe?

10:44Oh, interesting. key pieces. Like, because if I think about when I travel, like the things I pull out first that I'm bringing on a trip, you could technically think of that as like your capsule wardrobe, like your favorite pieces that you take everywhere you go. Right. But that's not something I think you prescribed every day. Right. I think there maybe it's like your workhorses or like wardrobe workhorses or whatever. Maybe sounds like a Marie Claire column coming right up. I do this. Yeah. But I think there is something to be said. Like, yes, everyone should have the key pieces that they feel like they can rely on.

11:17But like what your key pieces are versus mine are going to be different. And that's the exciting part of it. Right. So if I were to write a story and I think I did like 12 years ago, I guess at this point, and we're talking about capsule wardrobes, I'm saying like a jacket, an outfit that you feel a million bucks in every time you wear it, a pair of a bottom of some sort, whether that's like jeans or trousers. or a skirt that you can pull out of your closet if you need to leave the house in five minutes and you need to be polished. Like those sorts of things that are based more so on feeling rather than you have to have a striped shirt.

11:56I completely agree. I think it's for me, like I remember when that was a really big thing right out of COVID, I felt really pressured. I was like, oh, I want to have this like aesthetic wardrobe where I open up the doors. It's just like my Polly Pocket wardrobe. But I think that is the complete antithetical way to consume fashion. Yeah. For me, I wake up and I dress for feeling. And sometimes I wear that thing that I haven't pulled out in like eight months that suddenly like has a new life for me that I can't wait to wear. And I think you have to constantly be shopping your own closet and like evolving and trying new things.

12:29For sure. I don't ever want to be wearing like the six tops, six shirts, six bottoms that I'm just kind of always mixing and matching. Right. That's not how I want to do fashion either. Right. Like, and I feel very sort of resolute in my feelings about that. I think that, like, to say you hate a capsule wardrobe can sort of be blasphemous when it comes to— No shade to the people who like—by the way, there are people who want zero decision fatigue in their lives and want to wear the same thing. No shade. I just think if you're someone who wants to enjoy and explore and experience fashion, stop trying to do it.

13:00Yeah. And also, like, disclaimer, no shade of, like, with anything that we're saying. Like, I am talking about me. You could you don't have to dress the way I dress at all. And that's great. And that's fine. As long as you feel good in your clothing, like what's that got to do with me? Like, totally. We're good. So what is the workforce in your closet? Like, what's the thing that you use probably the most? It's as of right now, it's probably a button down shirt. My always in a crisp button down shirt and it looks so good on you. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that. The dry cleaning secrets to keep those colors.

13:34There are none actually. There are none. Because, or for me at least, because I literally this morning to my boyfriend was like, how do you iron? How do people get things super crisp? Disclaimer, I don't know how to iron. I steam. You steam. I don't know. No, but I don't steam my button downs. What do you do? I send them to the dry cleaner. I know. I have half a mind to like once a week just send all the button downs to the dry cleaner and get them pressed. Yes. Right? Because then they come back super clean or like super sort of like crispy. but yeah it's usually a button down shirt jeans a loafer of some sort I wouldn't say my style is pretty is like preppy but it does have a bit of a like preppy tinge to it I grew up in Virginia I went to school in Virginia so that southern sort of like style will always get to me polo Ralph Lauren is one of my favorite brands it always has been it always will be and so there's there's a bit of that to my style and then there's a bit of an athletic tinge to it as well so that's where like the sneakers come in and ringer tees, that sort of vibe.

14:35You're also a big runner. I am a big runner. Yeah. So it's like, I like my knees got to stay. Totally. So that's where the sneakers come in as well. I see you and Joe running and I'm like, couldn't be me, but like wish we could just hang out. I know. Shout out to Joe Holder. Yeah. I love running has always been a big, I mean, the last 10 years I started running and it's always something that I returned to. And so a lot of my fashion, I think is influenced by like a sports athletic sort of vibe as well. Yeah. I get this question a lot and I'm actually really and truly the wrong person to answer it.

15:07I work out a lot, but like I haven't updated my athletic wardrobe in a while. What are some of your go-tos? I wear a lot of Nike. Yeah. I think Nike is Nike for a reason. This stuff is really good. I also don't like to spend a ton of, like I work out, like I really work out. Like I'm running, you know, miles and miles. Just started incorporating Pilates into the mix. But for a long time, I've just been a runner and I've been like lifting weights. So I really need like functional clothing. So it's a lot of Nike, Adidas, New Balance, Fabletics, which is like my hidden secret. I know everyone's like, what?

15:43No, I'm down. I'm telling you, I need a new I need someone to like inject me with some new. I wear a lot of Fabletics. So for the listeners, I have I'm like curvy, I guess a little on the bottom. I probably wear like an eight bottom. And so I wear bike shorts and those bike shorts do not budge. Like I've run multiple half marathons and Fabletics bike shorts and they are perfect. That is a great cosign. Yeah. That stuff's important. Yeah. And you can like mix and match the sets, right? Totally. Yeah. You can buy that. So like they have a program where you can get like, I don't actually don't know exactly what the program is anymore, but I buy the pieces individually.

16:19They make great sports bras, great bike shorts, cutie little tennis skirts, all of the things. Love? Yeah. What's been your most recent purchase? Oh, I was in Paris, so I went a little. It's impossible not to. I'm sorry. What are you supposed to do? It's tough. And it really is like this. If you are an avid shopper. Yeah. Right. You know that if you are in Paris or if you're in Europe and you like luxury items, you should buy them there. A hundred percent. We all go with a list. We go with a list. They are, in fact, cheaper there. You get your VAT back. That's the strategy. So I got some Chanel shoes.

16:56I got like a Chanel little. Oh, we went to Chanel. Oxford. Yeah, we went to Chanel. We got some shoes. What else did I get? That might have been the most recent, but I have the Shoppies. They're coming on. Like I can feel them. It's a new season. As soon as it gets sunny outside, I'm like, let's go. Did you just say I have the Shoppies? Oh, no. You just titled a feeling that I am now going to say once a week to my husband. Alex, I have the Shoppies. I have the shoppies. Yeah, I have the shoppies too. Do you know? That usually happens around when like a new season's happening. Yeah. And I can't, there's always like a two week span between seasons where I don't know what to wear.

17:32Right. Like I'm just like, I'm like, I'm confused. And it's like you're wearing a sweater. Like even look at me now, I'm still in wind. Like even yesterday when it was warm out, I wore a leather jacket. Right. I get seasonally confused. Yes. And that's when my shoppies really kick it out. That's when you're like, I know how to solve this problem. Yes. I'm like, I'm just going to go buy new things. and I'm just gonna like figure it out. Yeah. Oh, I also went to Bali because I did. I was in Milan and Paris. So Bali is incredible right now. Yeah, there was the current CEO of The Real Real was just on the cutting room floor.

18:07And she actually said that Bali is flying at The Real Real right now. Yeah, it's really, really good. So Simone Belotti, I think is his last name, was the creative director. He's now leaving and going to Jill Saunders. So we'll still have him in the mix, which is really great. But I think the stuff that he was doing for Bali was like right up my alley. Yep. In terms of dressing, a little bit preppy, but super functional. So I got some jackets, some blazers there. Wow. Good to know. Yeah. I love when a podcast comes on and like tells me the deep cuts. Get it now. Thank you for being here. You have one more season.

18:39Thank you. One more season with Simone's Bali and then he's off to Jill Sonder. Good to know. Can't wait. While we're talking about shoppies, we have to talk about my current go-to for the shoppies, and that is Jenny Kane. If you don't have anything from the brand, now is such a good time to try something because for a limited time, our listeners are getting 15 % off your first order with the code LIVE. If you see me on any given day, I am usually wearing one great thing from Jenny Kane because that's just how good their pieces are. I have pants from them. I have so many sweaters, and right now they have so many good ones for spring and summer.

19:15There's one that I post so often and it's the Flynn cashmere sweater because I'm wearing it 80 % of my life. It's a V-neck sweater that you can wear tucked or untucked. I literally wear it with jeans, skirts, sweatpants. It's kind of my go-to in my closet and I have it in every color for every occasion. So if you haven't tried anything, I highly recommend that being your first try. And of course they have so many other great lightweight sweaters for spring and summer too. And of course, tis the season. A lot of you have been asking me about where to find good raffia bags and Jenny Kane has such a good one.

19:49It's great for like the farmer's market, the beach, it holds so much and it's so well-made that you'll have it for so many summers to come. So with spring around the corner, go find your new summer uniform at Jenny Kane. Again, our listeners will get 15 % off your first order when you use the code live at checkout. That's 15 % off your first order at J E N N I K A Y N E.com. Provo code live. That's me. Let getting dressed be one less thing to worry about. How did you get your start in fashion? Oh, that's a good question. So I always loved fashion. I grew up, my mom was a shopper. I remember like boxes of Delman shoes, like all over the house.

20:29And so think I've always and she wore like trench coats and was really into scarves. So it's no I think when they saw me first go into fashion, they were like, what like what's happening right now? But it's no wonder I was surrounded by clothing for my whole life. And my dad would make us watch like 60 minutes every weekend with him. So of course, I'm a journalist who writes about fashion primarily. So it sort of started when I was a kid. And then when I graduated, you know, did like all this schooling and all of this stuff. And when I graduated from college, I went to University of Virginia. I studied media studies and sociology.

21:04There wasn't like a real sort of journalism program there just yet. And so I moved to New York and I had interned in the past, but I moved to New York without a job. My parents said that they would front me six months of rent, thankfully. So, you know, I was able to sort of like share an apartment on the Upper East Side with a roommate and I worked at Vanity Fair. That was my first job out of school in the fashion closet. And I've just sort of climbed the ranks from there. I mean, you've quite literally worked at every magazine. I have. I've worked. Yeah, Vanity Fair, InStyle, Glamour, Elle, GQ, Harper's Bazaar, and I'm at Marie Claire.

21:44You're truly like the archetype story of someone who has risen in the ranks at incredible publications to finally land the editor-in-chief spot. In your mind, what do you think that takes? Like, what is it to people right now listening that want to be in this field to rise to the top? I mean, you have to have stamina, honestly. I remember, so I was talking to Hilary Kerr, my boss, and she was like, one of the reasons that I knew that you could do this job is because you're a runner. And that's sort of like, you see the world through a runner's eyes and you do things that don't scare you really.

22:21And if you can push yourself there, then you can probably push yourself in this job. And I do think a lot of that, what I took from that is that I have stamina, that I do things that like aren't, I can sort of talk myself into doing things that like may look hard on paper or may seem hard, but really if you come up with a plan, you can sort of, you can really just do it and you just have to stick to it, honestly. What is that day to day like? Like, I always wonder, You know, obviously you're not in the weeds. I know that you still write. But what is kind of by the hour? Is every day different?

22:52Every day is different when you're an editor-in-chief. And I think that that is the fun part. You know, I could wake up. This morning, I was working on my newsletter. Self-checkout comes out every Saturday. Great name. Thank you. So I was working on self-checkout. Last week, you know, halfway through the week, we were recording Nice Talk, my podcast. We are finishing the closing touches on our May motherhood issues. So I'm working with the writers and with the internal editors to get that into a good place. Lunches, I have a gala this evening. Like it's literally all over the place. Yeah, it's nonstop.

23:28But I think that's the fun part. Like if you like that no two days are going to be the same, this is a job for you. If you want a job where you're just going to sit behind a desk all day, I promise you this is not it. And it's work. Like that's the thing that I think a lot of people may not understand about working in fashion. or being a content creator. Like this is actual work. And like these are some of the hardest working people that I know. It's been really fun to see you kind of expand on these pre-existing ideas that Marie Claire has had. When you started your editor-in-chief role, was there like a very specific, you know, memo that you were like, these are the things I want to change.

24:02And this is the voice and tone that I want to bring to my Marie Claire. Yeah, it's I was actually just looking back at my edit memo that I did for the job a couple months ago. And it's I sort of go back to it every once in a while to make sure that like I'm still on track and like checking off the things I wanted to do. And we're there. Like I think of this job sort of in three year chunks. So I'm a year and a half in right now, a year, a little over a year and a half. And like there's a lot to be done, but we've been able to accomplish a lot in the in the time that I've been here. And so we're just sort of cooking.

24:33I'm excited. That's super exciting. I know. I love to see it. I feel like you have such a good grasp on the brand itself, but you've also brought in a really modern touch to it. Yeah. You know, it's easy in this sort of situation. Like, I think that I look at editor-in-chiefs and I think about the role and I think about the women who have had this role before me. They left me a really good blueprint. Yeah. Like, I did not have to change much. Like, Marie Claire has been around in the U.S. for 30 years. Wow. Incredible women have been at the helm of it. And so for me, it was just sort of like bringing my own, as you said, my own touch, my own sort of like sauce to it and really just bringing it into this new era.

25:13I'm curious how you feel about the current state of print media. I know you guys have two times a year, right? Yeah. Twice a year. But also like I love seeing you have your monthly column. There's like sub stack out there. Like what do you think about where it's at right now, especially as somebody at the helm of it all? Listen, I think it is easy to be pessimistic about media. Yeah. I think it's easy to be pessimistic about a lot of things. And so I think a lot of people default to that. But I work really hard and I wake up every day and work really hard about to find the joy in what I do, the joy in media.

25:54And I can get down and I understand that. Like, it's not easy. But I think that the ability to come in to tell important stories, to feature women who I love and admire and appreciate, like, you know, I can't be too mad about that every day. And I think that when we think about the state of media, it's important, A, to support journalism. So please pay for the magazine, right? So I can keep doing the thing that we're doing. But I also think it's important to support and believe in media, especially in our current democratic state. It's very important to support and believe in media and media literacy.

26:36I subscribe to The New York Times. I subscribe to New York Mag. I think the work that they're doing is really important and really incredible. And so I think it's important to put your money where your mouth is. And so I pay for those things. Yeah. It's so interesting because I I would love to just be a fly on the wall in your day-to-day work in the sense that, you know, you're working really hard to honor this legacy brand that, as you were saying, has been around for 30 years. But there are so many other things popping up that are new forms of medium, like I mentioned Substack before. Where are you finding the intersection and feeling excited about these new things, but also honoring this, you know, legacy heritage New York brand?

27:17Yeah. You know, I always say, and I think Joe Holder says this as well, like everybody can eat. There is room at this table. If you are good at your job, right? Totally. You will have a room. You will have a space at the table. You can eat. Yep. There is a reason why these sub stackers are so good at their jobs. And who am I to turn my nose up at them? Yeah. In fact, I'm like, hey, do you want to come write for me? There you go. There you go. You're super successful at what you're doing over there. You're doing a really great job, Jess Graves. She came to me. She was like, I want to do a monthly column for Marie Claire.

27:50I said, bet. Let's go. What do you want to do? Ooh, that's interesting. What in your mind is the way to nail a pitch? Oh, that's a good question. She had a very clear idea of what she wanted it to be. She saw a white space that she was filling that we weren't covering on the site. She came in just like with a very clear idea of her value add to Marie Claire. It wasn't like, I want to write for Marie Claire and you guys have done this story 15 times, but I want to tell this story. And it wasn't, here's a story idea that I have. I don't necessarily think it's a Marie Claire story, but it's a story I want to write.

28:27So can I write it for you? Like, you really have to be cognizant of the place that you are pitching to and the value add of the story that you are pitching. Yeah, I think you have to know your worth and what you can bring to a platform that's not already there and how your unique voice could bring to the table. Yeah. I think that's amazing that she pitched you. I feel like we're going to be seeing so much more of that. I hope so. Yeah, I'm obsessed with Substack. I am too. Truly. Like, I was on Twitter for a long time and I got my career, I got my start writing for Forbes, and I've been missing a place where I feel like is more kind of lo-fi thoughts versus Instagram that feels really curated.

29:05Yeah. And TikTok is more visually lo-fi, but Substack is my place. Substack is also great because there's not, for better or for worse, right? You're not dealing with advertisers in the same way. You're not dealing with those sorts of guardrails. In some regards, that's not that great because you can see sort of media popping up that is unsavory, I guess you can say. But then there's also media and there are also people who are doing really great things like Delia's hate reads. Like she writes this newsletter called Deez Nuts, which I think is so funny. Oh, I've seen that. Yeah, it's actually hysterical.

29:40But she also just really she launched this series called Hate Reads where everyone where a couple people will write essays on things they hate. And that's funny. And that's something that like you may not see in traditional media, but on Substack, you can do that. And it works there. It works. I mean, the other day I'm going to Tokyo with my husband next month and there's a Substack I love called The Window Seat. and their chat is just people asking for recommendations from other people in the chat. And I put in there, I was like, hey, guys, I'm going to Japan. Any recs? And I got like 15 replies with amazing recommendations.

30:11Yeah. I think people are really missing community. They're really missing the community that used to exist on, you know, Zenya or LiveJournal, BlockSpot. Oh my God, Zenya. Right? Exactly. Deep cut. All of those places. Yes, I agree. They're missing it. I think what I really love about Substack is everyone that's on there, if they're there for a specific topic, they're very passionate about that topic. Yeah. And so when I started at Marie Claire, I saw I saw a bit of the Substack sort of rise of Substack happening. Becky Malinsky launched Substack. Laurel Panton launched a Substack. Leandra launched one.

30:47And those are all people who were editors with me. Yes. And I saw the success that they were having. I saw how this was just a lot of the stuff that we take for granted as fashion people that we know. And so I came to Marie Claire and I was like, oh, I'm starting a newsletter. And so we've done it for, I mean, I started it in November 2023, I want to say. So like it's been, I've been at it for a really long time and it's been fun. I miss the fact that we can't have like a dialogue necessarily. I'm just like talking to my readers. And I think that that's the good thing that Substack provides. But, you know, I know that for me as a writer, it keeps my muscle, my writing muscle strong.

31:27And it provides a service to my readers that they're really excited about. I know you're also a big watch collector, which I love. I am. How did that happen? Where did that come from? I got into, I've always liked watches. I've always felt like they're sort of like an exclamation point or a a finishing touch, a period on the end of your look. And so I've, yeah, I've always been into them. During the pandemic 2020, I got super into them. We were all sitting at home. We didn't really have much to do. And she was just shopping watches. I was just shopping watches. No, I was actually running Harper's Bazaar's website and looking for new writers.

31:59And Brynn Walner had just launched Dime Piece. And so I asked her to join as a contributor and gave her some of her first bylines, which I'm like so excited to say it's been like really incredible to watch her career flourish. Yeah. It's also been incredibly detrimental to my wallet. She opened my eyes to a lot of things. Yep. And yeah, it was sort of off to the races from there. I got my first sort of big girl watch in 2020. I got the Cartier Panther. Love. Beautiful. Do you have it? No, mine's not on. I have a Cartier tank that was passed on from my mom. Okay. And it's actually I didn't know this because she let me borrow it once and then I, but it's a tank from, I think the eighties that they actually don't make anymore.

32:44So like the font is really unique and I brought it in to repair it and they were like, this is a really specific era of tank. Like keep this one forever. Yeah. That's interesting that you say that. So my first watch was, was the Panther, like from the Cartier store. But since then I like don't really buy watches in stores anymore. I'm much more of a like getting what I couldn't have when I was younger. So the watch I'm wearing today is the Cartier Roadster from the 2000s. Thank you. From the 2000s, it's a watch that I wanted when I was an assistant at Vanity Fair. I, of course, was making like$4.

33:19So there's no way I could possibly buy it. So this was my second watch when I got this one on Rebag, I want to say. Oh, wow. What's on your wish list right now? Oh, man. I know. It's interesting, too, because I feel like we're in this era where like watches kind out of nowhere became the thing. Like the tank. It was interesting when my mom had passed down that tank to me and then it became a huge thing last year. And I remember the Cartier crash that Sofia Richie was wearing on a podcast went viral. Like it's really a moment for watches. So what's on your wish list? There is. It is a moment for watches right now.

33:50So I'm just coming off of watches and wonders, which is the trade fair in Geneva, where you get to see what every what all the watches that are coming out for the next year. And there are two from there that I'm really coveting right now. I want the Taghue F1 here. Taghue F1 watch, which is like a sporty little watch that sort of fills a white space in my watch wardrobe, if you will, right now. And then the Cartier Santos Dumas is coming out in a small. I have very tiny wrists, so I don't like big wrists on my personal wrist. And so that's coming out in a small, and I'm really excited about that.

34:24A two-tone small. They're just killing it with watches. Every watch that I see is a Cartier watch. is really incredible. They've just done such a great job of just capturing. I don't know what everyone wants right now. Yeah. I don't know what my next watch will be. I don't think I'm a big watch girl. What do you have? What's in the tank? I just have the tank. OK. Yeah. Well, no, I have a tag here, one that they so graciously gifted me a few years ago, and it's just a classic platinum blackface diamonds around it. It's so beautiful. I wear it all the time. I don't know. I feel like I would love like I think that the small Rolex has it's called a lady Rolex, right?

34:59Yeah, the lady day dress. Lady day dress. Like that. I love the two tones. They're so beautiful. I feel like maybe that's on my wish list for the future. Yeah. But I need to really like be obsessed with it before I obviously take the punch. I also love the Cartier one that looks like a bangle. Oh, yes. The Benoit. Yeah. Yeah. It has like a little it's a Benoit because the face looks like a bathtub. Oh, it's cute. Yeah. So I mean, that's a good one. That's a definitely that's a really good one. I think the fun thing about watches right now and the way that I buy watches is I don't really buy according to trend.

35:27I just buy, again, to feeling like. Yeah, to what you love. Yeah, to what I love and things will come in and out of style and, you know. And you'll just magically have them. Just magically have them like the Piaget Polo. That's a good watch that everyone is coveting right now. And Piaget just reissued it, but they reissued it in a bigger form and everyone wants the small one. I love that. This episode is coming out on the morning of Met Monday. So I'd be remiss if I feel like we don't touch on it a little bit. Yeah, let's totally. What are you excited to see tonight? Met Gala Monday is like one of my favorite days, honestly.

35:59It's so fun. So fun. I was here last year and I've never been to the Met, but just being in the city. It's electric. It's electric. Yeah, yeah. The red carpet is so fun to watch. We cover it as a team. Like I don't necessarily have to like be on covering anymore, but I'm generally in the mix just because I'm curious about what the team likes, what they don't like. Like, what are we talking about? Yep. I love that carpet. I think people are always down to take a risk. So this season, this year's theme is a nod to tailoring and black dandyism as well. And so I think we're going to see a lot of suits.

36:32We'll see a lot of suiting one way or another. I'm excited to see Zendaya. She's been to the Met Gala seven times. I'm always excited to see what she turns out. I'm excited to see Rihanna. Now, Rocky has to get there on time because he's a co-host. Yeah. Right. So he has to be there early. I'm wondering, I'm like, is Rihanna? She'll be last. Will she be last? Will she show up on her own? or are they going to show up together? I love the way that they dress together. They clearly just have such a blast together. So I'm excited to see that. Coleman Domingo is such a star and he's an incredible actor, but also an incredible just lover of fashion.

37:05Excited to see what he wears. Janelle Monae. Janelle Monae is an incredible example of what like a female black dandy looks like. And she always has fun with suiting. So I'm sure she's going to kill it as well. This is the first year that the Met has done all menswear since 2003. What do you think that says about just the state of menswear in general? You know, having worked at GQ, it's been funny to watch this sort of menswear go from like a niche sort of enthusiast category to really taking over and really infiltrating everyday life. Like you see tunnel fits really becoming a thing, whether it's NBA college, like tunnel fit becoming a thing.

37:47You see somebody like Lewis Hamilton, who was also co-host for the Met Gala, like his F1 looks incredible. I just think you're seeing lots of guys and different types of men getting into fashion right now, which gives license to the average guy to like care a little bit more about the sweater he's wearing or where his jeans are coming from. Really push it a little bit. Since this is obviously the theme is about tailoring, but specifically men's tailoring. What do you think we're going to see on the ladies? Well, it's interesting because the theme is like technically a nod to Black Dandyism. This is actually something we should get into because people don't know or most people don't know that there is a theme for the exhibit.

38:27There's a dress code and then the exhibit is usually inspired by something. So there are like a bunch of words always thrown around around the Met Gala. so the exhibit is and is basically about black dandyism and that's inspired by monica l miller's book slaves to fashion and so i think on the women we will see a lot of suiting but we'll also see people a lot of black designers which is going to be really exciting i hope that we see a lot of grace wells bonner and we see a lot of fear of god by jerry lorenzo maybe some dapper dan in the mix I hope somebody digs into the archives and gets something from him.

39:06Oh, that would be incredible. Something from Sergio Hudson would be great. He's been dressing Kiki Palmer recently. So that's going to be incredible. So I think on the women, we'll probably see a lot of suiting. But the dress code is also, you know, tailored for you. So that is a nod to sort of personal style as well. So there's a bit of a question mark, a bit of a mystery there. A lot of people don't know that like the Met Gala is not just a red carpet. The Met Gala is a fundraiser for like a huge museum. It funds the entire museum for the whole year. So like they're doing it for purpose. Like there is a reason that it's, you know, the exhibit is themed in that way.

39:45And at the end of the day, it's to like have fun on a red carpet and also make a lot of money. I think we'll see that too because dandyism was also about a lot of self-expression after a time of oppression. A hundred percent. So between that and the tailoring for you, I think we'll see a lot of really amazing outfits that both are inspired by great tailoring, but also a lot of like incredible self-expression and personal style. Yeah. And I think we'll see a lot of great accessories. So watches, brooches, top hats, canes, like a lot of the scarves, like a lot of the pocket watches. Yes, exactly.

40:20Yeah. A lot of the finishing touches on menswear style that is obviously can be co-opted, if you will, or worn by women. We'll be seeing a lot of that on the red carpet, too. I can't wait. It is one of the most fun nights in fashion. It's the best. It's our Super Bowl. Absolutely. I get texts from friends that morning being like, happy Super Bowl day. Have the best time. It's like, who are you excited to see? Yeah, it brings a lot of people in. No, I'm really excited. What is exciting you right now about the fashion space? What's exciting me about the fashion space? That's a good question. I think that we are, there are so many changes in the creative directors of the fashion houses these days.

40:59I'm really just ready for everyone to get settled and get to work. Like, I don't want to hear any more about anyone changing anything. Like, I want off that Ferris wheel. I want everyone to get in their offices, start sketching, let's get to work. There's much to be excited about. September will be fun. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy I got to have you on the show. It was a blast. Thank you for having me. Thank you.