Meet the Designer of 2025's It Bag, Jenny Lei of Freja New York

0:01Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm sick again. I'm sure you guys can hear it. I have no idea how this keeps happening to me, but I have the exact same cold that I had a few weeks ago. So another intro with my lovely, sultry, raspy, sick voice. I love today's episode because I absolutely love Freya New York. It's become a go-to everyday staple bag for me in my closet. So I'm so excited to have the founder on today. For those of you who are just learning about Freya for the first time and Jenny's story.

0:34In 2019, Jenny designed her dream work tote with zero design experience or a fashion degree. She had actually just graduated from Cornell and felt really insecure going into job interviews with the bags that she had in her closet. So she decided to go out and make her own. Six years later, Freya New York made$5.3 million in revenue in 2023 alone, made the Forbes 30 under 30 list last year, and her bags have been seen on celebrities from Hailey Bieber to Katie Holmes. In today's episode, Jenny and I chat about how she bootstrapped her business from the ground up, her goal of designing luxury bags at an affordable price point, and the exciting new category that she is going to tackle next.

1:17If you guys want to shop Freya, head to the website and use my code LIVE20. The website is linked in the description of this episode. If you use LIVE20, you'll get$20 off. Again, I love this brand. I've been living in the mini Christy lately. I wear it all the time. I have espresso color, and it just works so well with my wardrobe. Let's go get dressed with Jenny Lay of Freya, New York. Jenny, welcome to the pod. Thanks, Liv. Thanks for having me. Of course. I'm so excited to have you. But you know, I'm a huge fan of your brand. I wear it all the time. I think it's so chic and also hits a market that really needs elevated classic handbags.

1:52and I'd love to hear the origin story of Freya. Sure. So I like to say I was in grad school. I was interviewing for a very important interview. So I think I thought it was going to be like my last shot to get a job and to stay in the country. So I was pripping all night. And then at 1 a.m., I was looking through all my bags to find one that I could bring to this interview. And I couldn't find one that had, that was like low key and still looked nice and had room for my laptop and change of clothes because I always have to go down to New York City for the interview. So I ended up picking one up from a convenience store, like a$20 plasticky tote.

2:31I walk in there with my new heels that I can't walk in. They let me go. So I was supposed to be there for the whole day. They let me go after three people talked to me. Oh, wow. No one told me anything. I was just in the room by myself. And they're like, you can go now. So I left. New York interviews are a brutal experience. Brutal. But they didn't even tell me. So I hobbled down, changed into my shoes, went to Bryan Park and decided, you know what? I don't think I'm going to get the job. However, I do blame it on the bag. And I'm sure there are more people out there who have this same experience.

3:00So what if I started a bag brand? Blame it on the bag. Always. Yeah. You're like, it just wasn't right. As long as it's not a Freya bag. Blame it on the bag. That is crazy. So you had no prior design experience. What were you interviewing for? No design experience. So there is more backstory to that. Okay. But I was interviewing, I don't even know. I think it was some kind of analyst position at a hedge fund. Okay, so you were in like nowhere near fashion. No. How old were you at the time? I was, I think, 22. Okay. At the time. I feel like I often get asked the question of like, hey, I'm in my mid-20s.

3:33I didn't go to school for fashion. I have no background in it. How do I start? And I'm curious for you as someone who had no design experience and now designing what I would like to say like very high-end designed bags. So sweet. Well, they have great... It took a long time to get here. There's a specific shape to them and there's a specific style to them. So where did you start? Yeah. So the one thing I kept telling myself was no one's born a designer. Okay. And... I believe that. If I were to do this for a couple of years, why couldn't I maybe become a designer? I'm still not sure if I would consider myself like a designer designer, but I think we're getting better.

4:11and so our first year my philosophy wasn't like oh I need to make it super beautiful I was like I want to make it really functional so that was kind of the angle that I took I was like okay I know I want long straps I know I want the pockets in this way I need it to fit a laptop I need it to be soft but structured so I kind of designed it from the inside out so it's like let me put all of these elements into a bag and then just kind of make a bag around it I love that so that's kind of what we did the first year and it took it a whole year wow to get the first design off the ground because I was just didn't know what I was doing.

4:42The long straps are a very specific choice. And I think they obviously like ooze that functionality. But tell me a little bit about how that came to be because the staple of your bags is the long strap. I think so. You'll see a common thread through some of our bags now just because we've kind of found our stride. But for me, I know something that's really annoying is when a bag doesn't fit over a coat. And like we were discussing, it's very cold here. You can't be coatless. And I don't want to pick between a bag and a coat. And I don't like to carry handheld bags. It's very distracting. Yes. And you're missing a hand.

5:15Yes. This whole weekend I was carrying like a big pouch clutch that I love. They're so chic. But yeah, I was like at a party on Friday night holding this bag. And it's like two in the morning. And I'm like, why am I still holding this thing? And you need two hands to open it because one hand is holding it. Yeah. But like then I have like a drink in another hand. Exactly. So you can't. Yeah. Hi, can you hold my drink? I need to get into my bag. Yeah, it's really an antiquated thing. It's really just for me, like the clutch bag like that is a bag for LA people. They have their moments. They're good for the car.

5:47You pop in and out. But besides that, it is the least functional thing on planet Earth. I actually got, do you remember when Bottega pouches were so big? Of course. It was when I was in college. I got one. And I'm like, Jenny, are you going to wear this to class? Yeah. Where are you wearing this to? What size did you get? The big one. Oh, wow. Where did you wear it to? I had returning. So I'm like, this is a one I have a car or a driver kind of bag and I don't have either. Yeah. Okay. So the long straps, not wanting to sacrifice coat versus a bag. I think it's just easy. I like a soft strap so you can kind of tuck it in.

6:18I don't like straps that are super stiff because then if you're trying to store it, you need to make room for the handles. And I feel like I like it when they can lay down. I love hearing all these kind of functional moments of your bags that just make sense. And when I was learning more about you and the brand. I think my favorite part of your website is the blog section where, and I went like all the way to the beginning. You were showing the various steps of you starting to put together your original tote bag. Talk to me through your test process. Like how many bags did you test? What was that experience like to kind of get to the perfect thing?

6:53It was, I want to say, almost 20 samples over the course of a year. Okay. Wow. The first sample I designed, we had made in Brooklyn. It was terrible. There's a picture of it on the website. I saw it. I was distraught. I was heading back to China anyway. So I found a sourcing agent and I asked her like, hey, these are the parameters I'm looking for for a factory. Could you help me find a factory that would make 100 bags for me? That summer I went back and we visited five or so factories. I took my dad with me on our first little business trip. And then we had three of them kind of March Madness style make the bags for me.

7:28and I just kept going down until I found the factory that I liked the most. And there's still the ones that we're working with today. Were you out like in the market, like testing other things that were there? I did do market research. Okay. So I, AKA, I went to expensive stores and tried that because I couldn't afford. Yeah. So I think that helped me hone down like what I really wanted. Yeah. And I think for that was a structured base, some kind of closure. I'm not a huge zipper person. Yeah. So we decided on a magnet, had to fit a laptop, long straps, obviously. And I like having a key leash.

8:02So we added a key leash inside the bag. I do too. That's cute. It's interesting. I would say in the top three most asked questions I get on my Instagram, it's what is the perfect work tote? And no one can seem to, at this point, I feel like there's no way to identify like where all the bag brands are getting it wrong. Obviously your tote is perfect and is the one I always recommend. But at the time, like, where were they getting it wrong for you? It's funny, even my agent moved here at the end of last year and she came to me and was like, I need a tote. And I was like, okay, well, give me like your amount, like, what are your guidelines?

8:36Like, what do you want in a tote? And she was like, I don't want a zipper and I don't want it to be wide. I want it to be slender so that it can fit under my arm when I'm on the subway because I don't want a zipper. But it's interesting how everyone kind of has their own specifications for a tote. So where do you think during that time it just like wasn't working for the industry and I agree everyone does need something around we even have a tote guide I'm like you know the linea might not be for you the paloma would be for you if you are like this kind of person that's fun we have kind of a choose your own adventure for our totes but for me I think where what I was looking for was something really understated and timeless like very classic I didn't want any logos I didn't want too much hardware because it's kind of hard to match hardware and even to today like we're not a big on hardware.

9:19I wanted, same as your friend, I wanted something really slim, but still roomy. And I think that really depends on how the shape of the bag is made. Like some of our most, some of our biggest bags actually don't hold the most just because of the design. And I think that's something you don't know until you test it. So one thing that we do is I do test every single design that we make for at least a month post every sample. So I'm using it every day. Taking it out in the world. Yes. And then I think you discover so many issues when you do that. Is there one that's coming to mind where you're just like, oh, I thought it would be this, but it actually wasn't?

9:53I can't remember for the linea, but I remember our newest bag, like the magnet would kind of pop open at a certain length on the shoulder strap. So we made the cover on top of the magnet a lot thinner. So it would be stronger. Like the material that, like the lining almost. Yeah, because I don't like magnets showing either. So we always like put a leather of layer over it. I mean, I think of my bag collection now and how many times I reach for a bag, but the hardware doesn't work with what I'm wearing. And in a dream world, recently I've been like, oh, I love this bag, but I just want to take that big silver buckle off of it.

10:27And I think that's like a huge thing with your brand. It's like the hardware is kind of insignificant. I can wear it with anything. What was the choice of being like, okay, we're not doing no, we're doing zero hardware here. Okay. Well, Liv, I'm not a designer. Hardware is like one more thing I need to design. and also in the beginning there's minimum quantities for everything and we don't have money to make a mold for new hardware especially if I wasn't sold on it so right now we have custom zippers and everything but we're still not huge on hardware and also I want the bag I want to work with every outfit I want it to be like a no-brainer effortless I know this is the bag it's going to be comfortable I don't need to fuss with it it's going to fit a lot of stuff I know exactly where my keys are I don't need to worry about the hardware and the material is resilient you can take it out in the cold you can take it out in the rain you can take a beating I think that's, those are the important qualities for actually reaching for a bag.

11:18Like I have so many bags that are gorgeous. I'm so in love with them, but I never reach for them. And I think that's the difference. It's so interesting to hear you talk about all of this because at the end of the day, like I feel like I'm surrounded or hear stories frequently of, you know, people who love fashion and want to be designers and want to build like a full collection with, you know, a storyboard and a whole thing. But for you, you came from a totally different background and you wanted something that was just like functional and you could use every day. And a lot of your pain points are just things that like you either didn't know how to do or like couldn't afford.

11:50Yeah. And at the end of the day, it ended up being a product that like really worked for everyone. It's working for some people and I'm really grateful for that. It's definitely working. I mean, even your Forbes article said that you guys had, you know, close to 5 million in revenue to your 2023. I can imagine it's only grown since then because I see it literally everywhere. At the end of last year, I remember seeing a TikTok that was like this is the it bag it was a video of the larger christy i think that i was wearing the one that's in i have it in like the camel brown but it was like this is the it bag that everyone's been wearing it is going to be the bag of 2025 no way i feel like the christy the christy put us on the map ish do you feel like it's like the it bag i think our newest bag is gonna be the bag but i think right now the mini christy is like one of our best sellers for sure Is this new bag not out yet?

12:36It's coming out this week. Oh, sneak preview. So this is our newest bag. It's called the Hudson. I'm obsessed with it. Help. I love her. Yeah, that is like the perfect everyday. Because we do so much East West. I want to do something a little bit more North South. Literally. I don't even know what to call this, but like round. Yeah, yeah. More North South. Yeah. I also really like I'm loving bags right now that feel like an envelope closed almost. and that to me feels kind of like the envelope closure. It's just easy. It's easy and I think the roundness adds a chicness to any outfit versus kind of the hard, again, the hardware, hard edges.

13:15I'm really loving, like that kind of reminds me of the Totem T-Lock shape and that bag to me I absolutely love and I think there's a reason why it's like a bestseller. It's the shape that I think everybody really loves right now. It's like a universal. Yes. Kind of soft. I think that envelope shape. It's kind of like a little dumpling. It's so cute. I think the bag of 2025 is an envelope full just like that. Really? It's your new bag. All right. Yeah. We're launching right in time. That's so exciting. Any other colors? Any other stitching? Tell me more. So many colors. Oat Espresso Black at first.

13:47Exotics, which we will have our first foray into around May. Okay. What is that like? Like jumping into a whole new category as a brand that's like kind of worked with your consistent color since you've launched? Yeah. So my philosophy, at least for design in the beginning, I don't, we don't do collections. I release a bag when I think there's a need for it or when our community wants something. So we've never had like anything really, really consistent. But this year, I think, Liv, I decided last year that I was going to take this as my career. Like this is going to be my career. Just last year?

14:25Last year. I wasn't sure before. What was the shift? Like what was the moment for you where you were just like, yeah, this could be it. This is it. I'm diving in like headfirst. I thought I saw some potential. Yeah. Like long-term potential. And people were telling me that. So I'm like, okay, what if I invested my whole whatever foreseeable future into this? And that's why I also hired PR. Like I was like, okay, let me become the face of the brand. Because even before then there was not a single picture of me on the website, not a single mention, because I wasn't sure if this was something I wanted to do long term.

14:55But now it is. So now I'm like, okay, I think we can start playing around with designs and colors and making it a real brand. Like you said, I'm so much in the functional. Like I, the design is not my favorite part. I like the operations. I like the business side. So I think that comes to me naturally. But the actual design and the product and the branding, I need a lot of help for that. So I also bring on amazing people to help me out with product development and the branding and just making it all really, really cohesive and thinking really strategically about where we want to take the brand and what it's going to look like in the next couple of years.

15:29And I think having people got me really excited and it's infused like a new air into the brand. Whereas the first couple of years, it was just me in myself and I in my own head, which is not the most fun. Yeah. I think with any business, but especially in a fashion business where there's just so many different points you have to hit, outsourcing the things you're bad at is crucial. Yeah. Like, okay, design might not be your thing, but you know how to run a good accessories business. And there's a world for you to do that and thrive and succeed. I'm pro outsource all the things. Me too. All the time.

16:02Delegate. There's so many people who are better at the thing that I need to get done. Yep. I'm going to find them. And I think also, like, I remember when I was living here, it was kind of the era of girl boss. It was the glossiers and the aways, et cetera. And I think during that time, a lot of people thought they kind of needed to do things on their own, start things on their own. But it sounds like with you, like finding those right partners made you see the full vision of your brand. Whereas sometimes when you're, at least in my opinion, there have been ideas that I've thought about or friends that I've seen bring ideas to life and kind of sitting on the bench alone, trying to figure out all the things is a very scary prospect.

16:37So anytime someone comes to me and is like, hey, I have this idea. Do you think I should do it? I'm like, yeah, of course. Step one needs to be like build your team of people that are going to make you feel supported and like you can execute on your vision. Yeah, I agree. I think after I had proof of concept, my next step was let me build out a team. And it's made everything so much more fun. Talk to me a little bit about this idea of proof of concept, because again, we talked about like revenue kind of earlier. Is there one thing that you think was the biggest indicator or most helpful in growth for your brand last year?

17:10Like I wonder, especially for fashion brands right now, like what's moving the needle for a fashion brand? Honestly, every year it's different. I feel like I'm running a different business every now it's like every couple months like the problems that we have the the people that we're hiring like everything is so different but I think for me proof of concept means does this thing have legs so my for my first year I'm like I don't need to worry about branding I don't need to make it super polished I just want to know is this a product that people actually want like can I sell these bags and I think that's just been my philosophy ever since my our first year we only I made 300 pieces.

17:43It took us a year. It took you a year to sell them or make them? Both. There you go. It took us a year to sell them. Our launch strategy, if you can call it that, was me running Facebook ads to collect emails. We collected 2 ,000 emails, sent out the email. Not a single order. Not a single order. That was Feb in 2020. And then we also, the world shut down. And then I was trying to sell a work bag. So I'm like, how do I market this work bag to people who aren't going to work? Yeah. But that was the whole first year. And then after that, every year, I would try to launch like one or two new products.

18:15And then I would just see, can I sell out these products? If I can sell out, we'll keep going. But that's just been the philosophy ever since. Like I'm not going to make product that if I don't know for sure that it's going to move. I think that's genius. And I don't have money too. I wouldn't have capital to invest in inventory. No, I mean, look, I think being able to kind of temper it out and not go full force is a blessing to be able to say, okay, you know what? I have a job. I want to try this out. let's see if a few move is a great way to see if you even have an audience and if people even like your product versus like investing a bunch of money and potentially failing and having to start all over.

18:47Scary. Yeah. And I think that's the, I think I'm blessed to not have the whole fashion design brain. Yeah. You're in a different category that is so fascinating to me. Like I would, you're not, you don't have to operate within the rules of quote unquote fashion, but you've also somehow attracted every single person in the fashion industry. I think that is the work of our social team. Yeah. Yeah. So we started as a work bag brand and I think, you know, we ran a lot of ads to sell those. So I have a kind of a background in ads. We can get into that later, but it's easier to sell a work bag through ads because you're giving people a reason because there's like a functional purpose to it.

19:27Makes sense. And you can make an ad around that. And then after I hired my first social girl, Mia. Hi, Mia. Yeah, she's the best. We also launched the more smaller products. And I think the influencers and the content creators, they really gravitated towards their smaller bags. So right now, even now, like our strategy is social media and content for, to move the smaller bags and then the bigger bags, we still run all of ads. I mean, social media is positioning completely. Like you can have a$250,$350 bag, but your content can market you as a luxury brand. You can completely change the narrative of your brand via social.

20:05That's something I'm learning now, you know? And I think it's still niche enough where you don't see it everywhere. Yes. It's like, oh, I have something special. And even if you do, it's not a trendy bag. So it doesn't matter that I've seen it on Hailey Bieber and I've seen it on a million other celebrities. Like it's styled so differently in my wardrobe because it's not trendy. And I feel like it's not marked by a time period, I feel like. Yeah. Especially our bigger toes. You're like, oh, that's not, you don't look at it and you're like, oh, that's from 2000. Right. I can kind of be from any time.

20:31Yeah, it's the goal. I was just on vacation over the holidays and a friend of mine who's in branding, the two of us were having a really interesting conversation about the future of handbags and how we're kind of a weird spot right now. I feel like I do an AMA on my Instagram every week. So I see a lot of market research on what people are shopping and what they're looking for. And I noticed with bags specifically, people are either asking me for a luxury$3 ,000 bag recommendation, or they're asking me for a bag under$250. And it makes me wonder about the future of kind of that mid-tier bag. Maybe five years ago, if you asked me, I'd say, oh, Montsergavrielle.

21:11I would say you fall into the category of people looking for like the$250 to$350 bags. But I couldn't tell you right now if you were like, oh, I'm looking for like a black bag that's like$650 or$700. I couldn't tell you one. And so I've been thinking a lot about the future of those mid-tier bags. And I wonder if they're going to exist in a decade, especially post like Walmart duping the Birkin. It's like, are people just going to either go for, you know, something inexpensive and classic or maybe something inexpensive and a dupe of something that's more expensive that they can't get but want? Or are they just going to go luxury?

21:43What do you think? I feel like, I mean, for me personally, if there's something I really, really want, nothing is going to stop you. Right. Like nothing, like no dupe is going to satisfy that craving. Right. So I'm like, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go big. But then otherwise, if I'm not going to go big, I'm not going to go like halfway. Right. So I think it makes sense. I think some feedback I've gotten is like, they like the price point because if they like a bag, they can grab a couple of them. Exactly. And it's not crazy. Right. And it's a perfect, simple silhouette that like, I would be like, like that bag, for example, I should have that in every color in my closet.

22:18Why would I not have that in every color in my closet? It's a bag that's going to last me for a decade plus. And we'll look good with literally everything. Hey guys, Liv said it here first. You heard it here first. But it's true. It's like at this point, why would I invest in a bag that's, you know,$750,$800 and not just maybe save up for something a bit more designer focused, like the dream bag. It's interesting. I really don't know if in the next decade we're going to see that mid-tier. I honestly, I think they've been disappearing too. Like the mid-tiers have got, they're like pushing past the four-figure mark.

22:51I feel like back in the day, I could say like, oh, the Proenza bags were somewhere in that price range, but not anymore. Everything's either gone one way or the other. Everything's expensive now. Everything's expensive. It's wild. When shifting gears a little bit to styling Freya bags, you and I are similar size and height. And something that I talk a lot about is that your height should define what kind of, what size bag you're carrying. Oh, I've never heard that, but I like that. I think about it a lot. I have friends who will carry like really oversized bags. But if I carry them, they completely overwhelm me, take up my whole body.

23:22So since you've never heard that, maybe it's not the question for you. I was going to ask a few style bags and look at like your height as part of it. Oh, I, I don't think about that too much because I make my bags and I make them to me, to my size. You're like, it's my own thing. But we do have, I think one of the best performing posts we've ever did on Instagram was a height comparison of our different bags on different heights models. See? Especially because work bags, it makes a difference. Like you don't want to be overwhelmed by your bag. Huge difference. Sometimes there are totes that are just too big on my frame and I can't be wearing them.

23:57Whereas like, you know, I could use the example of like a bucket bag, like a middle size bucket bag would kind of fit my body frame. Whereas if I was 5 '9", 5 '10", like I could use the actual big size. But I don't like feeling like the bag is my entire, size of my torso. Yeah. I hate that feeling. I agree. I always pay attention to that. I think you should start paying attention to that. Well, you make the bag. So you're making them like to your fit. But for people listening who are like, how do I find my perfect bag? I think that that's a good. A lot of it is about the proportions of the bag too.

24:29Like sometimes it'll be the perfect size, but it'll be so thick and your arm is just, it's like you're carrying a football. I hate that. I don't like that either. I hate that feeling. It's the same thing with the pouch. It's like if it infringes on my function for the day, I have a hard time. It's usually not something I'll reach for in my closet. Yeah. See, that's the whole reach for because like reaching for it's not just this that it's like, am I actually going to want to be carrying this? Yeah. I feel like last year we saw the rise of what I like to call is the Dachshund bag, like long skinny bags.

25:03And I feel like obviously from the Aliyah bag that came out, people were loving it. But I had not seen a bag like that before. And now I see them everywhere. It's funny. So we, I would say we launched our Caroline bag a couple years ago. And then everyone last year was like, oh, how did you know to hop on the East West? I was like, I don't know. We just got caught up in it. We were lucky. Yep. We were lucky. Hopefully the East West bag stick around for a while. I think so. I mean, East West. They're so classic. Well, I also think East West is like penetrating a lot of different things. Like I have never seen more East West engagement rings in the past three months than I have in the past three months.

25:38Like I've seen so many East-West engagement rings where the diamond is switched. Three of my friends got engaged at the end of last year and had East-West engagement rings. Wow. Zendaya's engagement ring is an East-West ring. That's what I thought. So I don't know. I think we're just in an East-West era. Directionally challenged. I love that. Trying something new. I'm going to put it in the pod description. Your favorite directionally challenged bag. Yep. My new favorite directionally challenged bag. It's so funny. Okay, so what are you focusing on for 2025, new year? What are you hoping to invest in more of as a fashion brand?

26:12Yeah, so now that we're an official fashion brand. You're like, as of one year ago. As of one year ago. I really want to expand our collection. So I do want to focus on bags, but I want to do some more colorways. We'll do exotics. I want to do men's. Cool. Oh my God. I want to do men's. I could not co-sign that more. Okay. Men, they need. They need, but also. That's not a backpack. Oh girl, you just opened a can of worms. for me and Lydia who's sitting in the corner over there. And my husband and her boyfriend wear backpacks to the office and it makes us want it to die. Not for long. So it's interesting.

26:45My birthday just happened. I went to La Ropiana because I wanted to get a pair of shoes for my birthday. And there's a new bag from the brand that they just released. It's called the Loom Bag. And I've been wearing the small version of it. They made a large duffel version of it for men. And it's kind of like that classic medicine bag where like it magnetizes at the top and you can open it and then there's a zipper. Okay. And the way that both my husband and I drooled, swooned over this bag, and I've been thinking about it since I saw it. Okay. They also have Laura Piana. I'm going right after this.

27:16You absolutely should. Okay. You absolutely should. But beyond that, to me, Laura Piana has also like quietly been doing great men's bags for a long time. I just think it's a very specific audience, but I do think there needs to be like a revolution of men's wear bags where any guy can wear this to the office and feel like they are themselves and not wearing something that's too fashionable. Because there have been so many times where I've been to my husband like, hey, can I get you a nice briefcase? And he's like, what am I going to wear like a Louis Vuitton briefcase? And it's so not him. So yes, do it.

27:49Especially if he's wearing a backpack. Like his friends are going to give him crap. So like, are you thinking like chic backpacks? What are you thinking? I don't really want to do a backpack. Please don't do a backpack. I don't think it's hard to make it cheap. This is like, you can tell I'm very passionate about this. I don't, I don't like backpacks. Don't do it. Like I want to see, like, I want to see what a modern version of a men's briefcase could look like. Because we don't make backpacks for women. Right. So why would you make them for men? Exactly. I want to see what a modern men's briefcase looks like that doesn't remind them of their dad going to the office in the 80s and 90s.

28:18Like, give me something updated. Challenge accepted. You'll have it by October. Okay, I can't wait. But before that, we'll do some suede. Perfect for October because when I started to realize this. And I was like, really, there's not that much out there. And they're all so very expensive. It's a big investment. Not even that. I was looking at like Metier, for example. I think they have one for men's, but it's like two grand. No way. And I was looking at this holiday last season. It's a great gift for maybe a partner or like a guy friend in your life. So yeah, girl, I'm counting down the days till October on that one.

28:52Freya men's. Freya men's is a great idea. Yeah. Duffel for gym or travel, a briefcase for work, an everyday hands-free bag for like when they're just bopping around. I don't know what men do. And then maybe some smaller accessories. The, my favorite bag from Laura Piana is the L19, which is the tiny one that has the handle. And then there's a strap and they make it for men's. And I think it's like a great silhouette for hands-free, sleek, kind of unisex. And I'm sure you'll make something equally as epic. I have so much research. There's like my to-do list. Like, Loro Piano, this bag. Loro Piano, that bag.

29:28Matier, this bag. Let's go do some market research. They're my favorite for accessories, like high-end accessories. I love Matier. I feel like it's so under the radar. I went to their store in London a couple years ago. But the designer, she used to design for, I want to say, Audi? Like a car. Oh, wow. A car. Function. Exactly. Pockets. Space in the car. You can tell. Yeah. And you can really tell. You need all those things. To close out, if there's someone listening right now who wants to start a brand and maybe has no experience, what's your piece of advice? To start, honestly, you're going to learn everything you need to along the way.

29:59And I think a lot of people, what they do is, so I'm naively optimistic. I don't think three steps ahead. I'm just like, that's the next step I need to do. So just one step at a time. And I think you get so overwhelmed if you think way too far ahead. And remember, like the you that'll be tackling that problem down the line is not the you that's sitting in this chair right now. So you today, you might not have the experience or the know-how to do that. But the you down the line, you know, at step two, will know exactly what to do and just trust. If I can do it, you can. That is such a great point of like the you five steps from now might have like a smaller chance of actually knowing how to do that because you've gotten through the five steps.

30:40Yeah. That's a very great kind of mental activity or exercise to think of if you're ever overwhelmed. Yeah. And I think I heard this on a podcast, but the way he described it was you're holding a flashlight and you can only see the next step forward. But once you take that step, you'll illuminate the next step forward. Yes, 100%. So just one step at a time and just go for it. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on. This was a really fun chat. I'm such a big fan and can't wait to see all the things that you build. I can't wait to send you guys bags for your husbands. I'll be waiting, babe.

31:11I'll be waiting. I can't wait. Thank you.

31:19Thank you.