Taylor Swift Style: Decoding Eras, Iconic Looks, and Showgirl Glam with Kirbie Johnson

0:01Hey, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Let's Get Dressed. It's your host, Liv Perez. I hope you're all having an amazing start to your week. As always, thank you so much for kicking off the week with us. Today, I am so excited to be deep diving into somebody who I believe is a fashion and beauty marketing mastermind, and that is the one and only Taylor Swift. In honor of her new album that came out last week, The Life of a Showgirl, I really wanted to do an episode talking about her impact on fashion, beauty, the marketing industry, and her genius approach to marketing her new albums and eras.

0:36So today I'm joined by Beauty and Red Carpet reporter and the co-host of the Gloss Angeles podcast, Kirby Johnson, to decode how Taylor uses clothes, color, and makeup to build her world and how relatability has become one of her strongest fashion statements. We break down some of her most iconic style moments from that red Vivian Westwood mini dress, to the beauty and fashion brands that she aligns herself with, and how she's completely rewritten the rulebook when it comes to celebrity branding. Plus, we chat orange. Is it trending right now because of the new album? Cartier watches, friendship bracelets, and what we would love to see her wear on tour, and of course, at her wedding.

1:15I hope you guys love this episode. Let's go get dressed with Kirby Johnson. Hey, Kirby. Hi, Boo. I'm so happy you're here. I can't believe we're doing this for the first time. It's weird that we're doing this for the first time. I know. And then I was at the Clé de Poe event and you were too. We didn't even see each other. We were feet away from each other. Did I reach out to you that day or was it the next day? I think it was like. I think it was the next day. Which is so funny because I saw your content and I was like, we were right there. I should have just IRLed her, but I didn't even know.

1:44I loved. What was that blue dress you were wearing? It was Katie Mae. It's beautiful on you. And I I met Katie Mae many years ago through a friend, and she was just starting out. And now I look at her. She's like on Revolve. What is your color? Thank you. It really like – I almost could have thought that you had blue eyes. Wow. Thank you. Growing up, I always wanted blue eyes. If you have brown eyes, you grow up wanting blue eyes. Yes, 100%. It's just the way it goes. You have beautiful eyes. Thank you. So do you. I love the glam today. Thank you. Of course. I wanted to do a little wing in honor of our queen, Taylor Swift.

2:16Happy Taylor Swift Day. Happy Taylor Swift Day, October 3rd. I can't believe it's finally here. So we've never done an episode like this on the pod, like a full deep dive of a person. And I'm really excited about it. You are someone who I was like, anytime I think of Taylor Swift commentary, I think of you because I think you have such a one pointed opinion and a great point of view. But also you've been writing about Taylor for almost two decades now. Yes. In my research, I think I was finding blog posts from you from like 2008. Yes. Like a long time. Yeah, since like her early days. Yes. What was your first introduction to Taylor?

2:51So she, it was debut, her debut album, Country Girl. I grew up in Texas. So country music was a big part of my upbringing. And I remember just seeing like this curly haired blonde chick when I was in college. It was 2007. And my friend Molly, who is from Kansas City, was like, hey, there's this girl, Taylor Swift. And I really like her music. And I think you will too. and we like physically had the CD, you know, and she was adorable. And we were like, great, this is cool. And I mean, I truly feel like we've grown up together in a way. I am like, if Taylor is a freshman, I'm a senior. So like we have like similar to the similar kind of like college, high school, if you want to call it that trajectories.

3:40And it's really interesting to hear her music and how it's evolved. And then also how she went from one genre to another. Because I was a pop girl too, right? Like Britney Spears is my queen to this day. No one will speak ill of my girl. Like I'm obsessed with her. And she influenced so many girls back in the late nineties, early two thousands. And of course loved NSYNC. Like they, it was Britney and NSYNC for me. But I remember, you know, obviously loving country music. And then when 1989 came out, I have to give her credit because she could have just completely flopped and people have been like, this doesn't work.

4:18And she could have been completely shunned by the country music genre in general. But I think people see her fondly and still love and respect her because I think she started with them. But I think with Taylor being a massive superstar, they were like, well, she paid her dues. She was a country musician. I think if she wanted to go back to country, they would let her with open arms. So you have been covering fashion and beauty on red carpets in popular culture for so long now. Yes. And obviously, as I mentioned before, Taylor Swift has been such a poignant part of that for you. What makes her so interesting to you specifically, especially as someone who I love reading your writing, especially on Substack where the adults are, because you have such an analytical point of view paired with years of experience.

5:05So you've seen it all. You've seen the marketing. You've seen the industry shifts. So what is it for you about her that has made it stick? I like that she doesn't do, from a fashion and beauty standpoint, I like that she doesn't do what we all think she should be doing, in my opinion. I don't love a lot of her makeup looks. I don't love a lot of her fashion decisions. But that's all intentional. And it's to keep herself relatable to her fan base. yes she knows how to turn it up and of course she knows how to look beautiful she knows how to like really turn it out but at the same time I'll be like what was why are we wearing those shoes with this dress like you why are you committed to not serving right now like and in my head I'm like there has to be a reason for it she is a mastermind and it really is because she has a vision of what she wants each particular era of her life to emulate and to represent every good pop star does this, but she does it in a way where she keeps it attainable for her fan base.

6:07And that's what I think, like, that's, it's not why she endures. Her music is why she endures. And obviously people, she's beloved. But from the fashion and beauty standpoint, I think that that's why people continue to talk about her. And she continues to be a think piece for people like me or for people on the internet that just want to commentate. There is that Instagram account that's like, have you seen it? It's like things I wish Taylor Swift would wear. Yes. I actually am on the opposite team of that. Like I actually, I haven't actually deep dived into it. So what is it? So it's just an account that has like her photoshopped on like the most current or maybe most popular looks from the runway.

6:46And it's funny. It doesn't resonate with me. And I'm a fashion girl. Yeah. I've always, you know, anytime, you know, there's so much critique around what her street style is. And I've never been in that camp because for me, first of all, I'm not someone who likes to critique what people are wearing anyways. I'm like, wear what you love. That's the camp I'm in. Yes. But I also will say that when I look at that account and I see her photoshopped onto these other like high fashion outfits, I'm like, that doesn't make sense to me. Totally. Like, that's just not what the brand has been. And I completely agree with you that I think it would make her feel out of touch.

7:24And for me as a consumer, as someone who's been listening to her since I was in the eighth grade, like I like that she feels like a friend. Like I like that she feels like my neighbor or somebody who is emulating what is being worn and showed in real life. This is such a good point because I agree with you. I don't like critiquing how people look. It's like one of my things, like fashion police. Of course, Joan Rivers, may she rest in peace. She's the only person that could like really ever pull that off in a funny way. But my whole thing is when you see somebody on a red carpet, either they feel their best and you're critiquing them and taking them down, or they're already insecure and nervous.

7:59And then you're kind of validating that for them. Totally. So I really don't resonate with that at all. When it comes to Taylor, my perspective is this, I may not like everything that she wears or some of the decisions behind. I'm like, I'm constantly in my head. I'm thinking, why did she like, where was the strategy? What was the strategy with this? But I give her credit for it because she sticks to the era, the theme, like we know what we're getting. It's like, yes, when it was folklore and evermore, like you got this like fall coziness, even though like, you know, folklore or folklore was released in July.

8:38Like, why do I remember this? July 24th. Like we're in the throes of the pandemic. I know it's crazy. I don't know. I kind of really love this for you. Like, why do I remember this day? Anytime coming to you for the factoids. I'm like, this is crazy. Like JLo's birthday. What? Okay. So I know, I know this. You're good at your job. I just don't understand how I remember these things. I love that for you. But like, it was this cozy moment. Obviously we were like cozy in our homes because it was the pandemic, but you know, the coats, the fall, like the, her little tundrals with her hair, like the more clean makeup, like she wasn't wearing like the red lip.

9:10It was very just like natural earthy fall. You get the show girl, obviously now it's like the glitz and the glamour. She's got the wing. She got the red lip. We've even gotten like an orange lip and a nude lip from her. You know, her bejeweled eyes that she did with Pat McGrath for Midnight's and that Elson 4 lipstick that like keeps selling out because like Pat mentioned that that was what was used on her from her makeup artist, Lori Turk. So. So it works. It works. It works. It wouldn't be selling out if it didn't work. It works. Like if she walked out tomorrow in something that Schiaparelli showed on the runway yesterday, I'd be like, that's confusing.

9:46Because we don't see her as a high fashion girl. No. And I think that that's intentional. And we never see her at fashion shows. I've never. I don't think she's ever been to a fashion. I truly, if she has, I cannot tell you. And like almost 20 years of reporting on her. I do not think I've ever seen her attend a fashion show, be a part of a fashion show. This actually kind of leads me to another topic that I'm so passionate about when it comes to her. And she is very, very strategic about who and what she lets promote her and who and what she represents. She did a cover girl ambassadorship when, I mean, I think it was 2013.

10:21It was like very early aughts. I had just started at PopSugar and she wasn't wearing red. She was wearing like a nude lip and she had really dark black smoky eyes going. And ever since then, she will maybe mention a product here and there. Like when she was doing her secret sessions where she had fans at her actual house to release like 1989 and you know a few other albums I think someone happened to ask her like what her favorite red lip was and she mentioned NARS Dragon Girl the matte pencil and people have mentioned in the past that like on a cover she's worn red lipstick like MAC Ruby Woo and then really since then all you have is Pat McGrath, you know, obviously being in her bejeweled video, doing the makeup for that video, and then mentioning that they use the Elson for liquid lip to be exact.

11:15Exact guys. But she does not, you don't see her glam team, Jenna and Lori posting like you see Sabrina Carpenter's glam team or Olivia Rodrigo's glam team. Do you think that that's calculated? 100%. I think that Taylor Swift, first of all, she's got more money than God. But let's take it back 10 years from now when that financial number wasn't the epicenter of everything you think about when it comes to her. If we're talking about fashion shows and we're talking about fashion campaigns and beauty campaigns, I know you just mentioned the Cover Girl one, but even now you see, if we're going to keep talking about Olivia Rodrigo and Sabrina Carpenter, like you see Sabrina Carpenter at Dior.

11:57You see them engaging in - And working with Redken. And working with Redken. And Prada. Exactly. Like you see this crossover between music, entertainment, fashion, and beauty. And that does put them in this very different category for me. Yes. And I wonder what you think that is about Taylor, that she won't touch that and what it means for her career in general. I think that she is just meticulous about who she aligns herself with. She doesn't want to be aligned with a brand that could get canceled for something because she has no control over that. Right. And the people that work at that brand or the founder of that brand, right?

12:35I think she has taken a page out of Beyonce's playbook in a way. And like, let's remind everybody that Taylor born in 1989, Beyonce born in 1981. So, you know, I do not want to say the word elder, but she is like the older sister in this scenario. And Beyonce did work with L 'Oreal at one point, but that was like mid-2010s. I would say around like 2015, 2016, you were only seeing Beyonce promote Ivy Park and then now Sacred, her haircare line, which I always say is Miss Tina's line and Beyonce is the face of that. But they want to be in charge of the narrative around them specifically. and Taylor is like, I will pay Lori.

13:25This is all speculatory, but I believe she's like, I will pay Lori and Jenna handsomely so that they don't have to depend on getting these outside brand partnerships in order to sustain a life that they deserve to live. And I don't shade anybody for getting their bag or for any of these brand partnerships. It's just the way of the world now. But I think that that is, you're exactly right. It's what separates people like Beyonce and like Taylor Swift. In the grand scheme of things, Taylor Swift is, I think, the only major superstar that doesn't have a beauty line at this point. And people keep asking me, do you want her to have a beauty line?

14:05And I say, no, I actually, I don't. I don't want her to do that. It doesn't seem like a passion for her. Deep cut. But that fragrance back in the day was amazing. Yes. I wore it in high school. 100%. What was it? It was in the Speak Now era. Yeah. And was it purple? It was purple. Yeah. I can't remember the name of it. It was fantastic. Yes. I wore it. That's so crazy. And I wonder, was that Elizabeth Arden fragrances? I can't remember. I'm like, I wonder if it still exists or if that licensing has now probably died. Well, now I'm going to go on a deep dive and find it. I'm curious if you think that she, because obviously of her style being something that is, there's a lot of critique around it.

14:39Of course. Do you think that she is actually driving fashion and beauty trends? Where do you think that she has found her strength in driving those moments? That's such an interesting question, Liv, because I don't know. I got a ton of pitches. I'll put it this way. I got a ton of pitches once Life of a Showgirl was announced about orange. It was like the next day. Like, orange lipsticks, orange blushes to keep on your radar. And I thought to myself, does anybody really care? Like, do people want to wear orange on their face? I don't know. But then, I mean, I use an orange blush from Glossier and an orange blush from Fenty that I think are stunning.

15:19Orange lipstick, maybe not so much. Before you carry on, can you elaborate on the orange blush a little bit? Because I'm curious, is that shading orange or is that just giving you this like peachy glow? It gives you this peachy, almost bronze. It's a mix of like, I feel like peach and bronze. So like if you're tan, it's beautiful. Okay. Because it just looks like the sun kissed your cheeks a little bit. We love that. Yeah. So that's a lot. I love wearing that, especially during the summer and spring. But I remember thinking, okay, I'm getting these pitches for Orange. And I even got reached out to by a writer saying, hey, I'm writing a story about Taylor Swift's impact on different shades in the beauty industry.

15:58What are your thoughts on the Orange thing? And I was just like, I don't think I have anything to offer of interest here because I don't see it happening. She literally just announced the album, right? But then sure enough, when I was doing research before I came on this podcast, there's like a million, like Architectural Digest has a story about how Taylor Swift has influenced colors within the interior design world. With data behind it? Yes. Wow. And also a story from them as well that's like orange, like what you need to know about Taylor Swift's new era color, which is crazy that Architectural Digest has something like that.

16:39So it's not just fashion and beauty. It's touching all. Taylor Swift drives clicks. So now every single media company wants to know, okay, how can we get on? What does this look like for us? Okay, we can't talk about lipstick. We can't talk about fashion, but we can talk about a couch or rug design, which is kind of crazy to think about. Because we both work in media and we know this, people are just going to talk about what's going to get them clicks, whether it's true, whether it's false, whether it makes a lot of sense or it doesn't. It's just the name of the game these days because everybody's fighting for ad revenue.

17:15It determines how many people are visiting your website. So what are people going to do to get you to their website or their social platforms? They're going to talk about people like Taylor Swift and Blake Lively and Beyonce and Sabrina Carpenter or whoever is at the top of the totem pole at that given moment. I think she could sell orange beauty. Really? So you might be right. If there's anything she sells me on, it's great beauty. Like no one convinces me to do a winged eyeliner more than Taylor Swift. Yes. Even today, you know, I was watching clips of her doing the radio show promotions last night.

17:52Yeah. And she was wearing this gorgeous like orange Saint Laurent sweater, V-neck, cashmere. It was really nice. And with like kind of a muted orangey lip. And look, I'm not sitting here saying that orange is going to be on my lips anytime soon. But am I tempted to maybe do something that feels a bit lighter than a red? You know, mixing things up a little bit. Yeah. For me, I love it because it's not red. Right. And you're like anything but. She does red specifically. Yes. It's eye-catching, especially on stage. Like you need to be seen by the people that are in the cheap seats in the back. and at a Taylor Swift show, nothing is cheap, right?

18:31So like you want to make sure every person in that stadium can see at least something on your face and it's going to be the red lips. And that's the life of a showgirl baby. That is the life of a showgirl baby. So she's thinking strategically in that way. And also I talk to people about this because I enjoy talking about stuff like this. Like people think like, oh, it's your job. I'm like, yeah, but I love it. That's why I do it. When you become a Halloween costume, you know you've made it. Absolutely. You have made an imprint on the people. We know Taylor Swift, and there's a few ways to do it.

19:04You can do curly-haired Taylor with a sparkly dress and a guitar. You can do 22-era Taylor. What would you do? I would do, if I was doing Taylor Swift, I'd probably do the cute bejeweled bodysuit with the red lip, the straight hair, and a guitar like I was on Aero's tour. What do you think has been most iconic in terms of what's made an impression on fashion and beauty? it's it's most of them which are the wing liner with the red lip but like red lip red lip is a key part of like all these halloween costumes i think is the point i'm trying to make like if you're doing taylor swift and you don't have a red lip you're doing it wrong you're doing it wrong even if you're doing debut when she doesn't have a red lip like people are throwing on red lips because that's just what you associate with taylor you know yeah i think about it like hairstyles.

19:53So that would be Tina Turner's hair, like iconic. Cher has a variety of different hairstyles that you can look to and say, okay, if you're wearing a certain Bob Mackie inspired outfit with the long black hair, you know that someone is attempting to be Cher, right? So with Taylor, it's like, if you do Taylor without a red lip, is it really Taylor? So there's that aspect of it, the red lips. But I love that now with Life of a Showgirl, that like muted orange, it's almost coral in a way, but I consider it a nude on her because it is so close almost to her undertone. And I think, I don't know if it's been confirmed, but her makeup artist Lori has mentioned that she has used a very similar shade and it's NARS Morocco.

20:40And so we're like, is that is that what she's wearing? I mean, the day it's revealed, people will be running to the store to pick it up, obviously. Will we ever find out? We don't know. Because again, that's just promo for something that is not under Taylor's jurisdiction. So this is where the fashion girl in me comes in. I was kind of excited about orange because there is a high fashion texture aspect to it. So I was like, oh, is she going to lean in a little bit? And even listening to the album, she was in this custom orange sequin Gucci dress. And I was like, oh, that is like beyond stunning.

21:15So fashion, so perfectly orange. She pulls off orange. So many people cannot. One thing that she had told us, I think it was during the New Heights podcast because it was the only promo she did basically besides the countdowns on her website, was that orange is exuberant. It's happy. It's positive. And like, even though behind the curtain, some things were going down and they weren't the best, she was happy. It was positive. Like she, things that were normally bad to her were becoming positives. Like in Honey, it's obviously about Travis, but she says that when people called her sweetheart, it was dismissive and, you know, patronizing.

21:57when they called her, you know, honey, they, you know, were like, that dress doesn't fit you, honey. But he calls her honey, calls her sweetheart. And now those negative things are now a positive thing for her. So I understand why she went with orange. And also like, again, the mastermind of it all, she walked through the orange door at the last Eras tour show. From a fashion marketing perspective, thinking about that when Travis was on stage with her, changing her out of the tortured poets department and into the showgirl, I was like, this is genius. Like, I love the way that she uses clothes to tell her story.

22:35And whether people like it or not, it is all part of a master plan. And I even think back to the question I asked you earlier, like, does she indicate trends? Is she a trendsetter? And while I'm sitting here saying like, you know, she might not be like a Dua Lipa, for example, who sold me that Chanel 25 bag this summer, like no other. I know. Like while she might not be that, was I walking around for the last two summers and saw stacks of friendship bracelets on people's wrists for over a year? Absolutely. 100%. So it might just, to me, it's just kind of this new form of fashion marketing that I think is really different than what anybody else is doing.

23:13She's advertising without it throwing it in your face. Absolutely. And if anything, what I think is great about it is she's not advertising anything but her. Right. She's not selling me anything but her. Yep. And that's rare. I can't think of anybody else who does that. That's so, so rare for somebody at her caliber because I'm sure plenty of brands would try to figure out ways to get the money to throw at her, to mention one thing or another. And she doesn't have to. You don't see product placement with her. You don't see like random inclusions of brands in a song where you're like, why is she mentioning Chips Ahoy?

23:51You know? I will say the one fashion flex that I loved of hers and it stood out to me because it was the first time I've ever seen anything like this was the Cartier watch. Okay. The Cartier watch. I was like, whoa. No, the Cartier watch. What's that? The Cartier watch. I have dreams about this watch. I'm like, that is such a flex that I can't even begin to compute like how amazing it is that she she is like a watch connoisseur I was like yes show me your watch collection no I'm like I would die to see your watch collection show me more I'm like that is like a taste level that like I think people don't associate with her sometimes right and like that's not just like I'm rich so I bought the most expensive thing I could find I mean that's a thing that like everybody covets that's like this is so stunning and only a certain amount of people can like acquire that particular thing, you know?

24:45Can I tell you what I love about Taylor Swift? Yes. She's in on the bit. For example, the Cartier watch is a good one. Yep. The Tank has been trending for two, three years now. It's probably the most desired watch. You see it all over the RealReal right now. Everybody wants a Tank. I also think about the Vivian Westwood dress that she wore to the Grammys earlier this year. And she also wore it on tour for Tortured Poets Department. that dress is the most popular bridal dress in the game and has been for the last five years. That the version of that dress that is the bridal dress has been everywhere.

25:19I mean, I was obsessed with that dress before like I saw her wearing it. And so I think that she just took it to the next level without again, having to say a word. Like, I don't think that she, I don't think I ever saw an interview with her being like, this was Vivian Westwood. I think it It was just like you knew. But like more so, I just love that she's, she loves to be one of us. She loves to be one of the girls. Like the most coveted watch, I'm wearing it too. Like I'm not going to pretend like I'm better than any of you and wear something different. Right. The hottest dress that everyone's wearing to get married in.

25:49Yeah, I want to wear it on tour too. Like I love that she doesn't ever try to seem like she's out of touch in that sense. And I think that from a fashion perspective, for me, that's really meaningful. I like that you say that she's in on the bit because that's, I think, my exact point is that she knows exactly what she's doing. I think a lot of people just see her still as like this little blonde curly haired chick. You know, she writes pop songs. You read some of her lyrics that of course are never going to translate like when you read them versus like listening to them, right? Like because pop music in general, people don't take pop music as seriously as they should.

26:24Right. Like it's fun. It's frivolous. It's euphoric. It's, you know, exuberant, but it's kind of like almost how people think of comedy in a certain way versus a drama at the Oscars, right? Like pop music isn't supposed to be serious, but like she takes serious things and makes them into really good, catchy pop songs. And it's all intentional. She's in on everything. That's what I, when people say they don't like her, I'm like, that's fine. You don't have to, like, I'm not going to push anything on anybody, but you cannot judge somebody because you read a lyric on an Instagram post, you have to listen to the music and actually like listen to her catalog because she's an amazing storyteller.

27:04And some of the best songwriters in the world have written praise for how amazing she is as a songwriter. I'd be remiss if we wrapped up this episode and didn't talk about some wedding things, especially from your POV, from a beauty perspective, from a fashion perspective. What do you anticipate? What are you excited about? I don't know. Will she wear Vivian Westwood? Like that's like, I want to know what her gown is going to look like. I, I have a very, I don't want, I just, I'm like, okay, I see her in her eras, right? Like her different types of dresses. I don't want her to be in a big like speak now moment.

27:42So that's always my first thought of her because that's what I grew up on. Like the Zuhair Murads, like that era for her. I think something that I found really interesting is in her engagement, they both were in Ralph. And then Selena for her wedding just wore Ralph. So Ralph is having a fantastic year all around. But I wonder if that will be integrated in any way because it does feel all American, which is so tied intrinsically to her brand. And I don't know. We mentioned this on Los Angeles where I was like, I would love to see her in almost like a Carolyn Bessette moment. Understated, maybe something silk.

28:17look like she has this amazing tall lanky figure right she could throw us for a loop right I'd love to see her hair straight with the bangs like a curtain bang yep maybe just like a low soft pony like I don't want it to look too fussy I think that's my where I want to keep going back to I just want it to look like this is me I don't want a red lip I don't want a red lip I don't want it here first. I really don't want it. But like if she does it, I will be fine. Not like my opinion matters at all. It's her wedding day. She needs to look like herself. So what does, what does, I just want to know, I would love to talk to her and be like, when you look at yourself, what is your signature look?

28:58You have your signature look for the public. What is your signature look just with Travis or just hanging out? I think we will never know that. And I think that that's the mastermind of Taylor Swift. Yep. You're so right. Thank you for coming on the pod. Thank you for it. This is so fun. I could do this for hours. We could have gone on for like three more hours. Guys, go listen to Los Angeles. It's such a good beauty show. Thank you. I am so glad to have had you here and talk about this. Thank you for having me, Liv. Thank you. Of course.

29:41Thank you.