Friday Q&A: How to Take Charge of Your Life with Hermione Olivia

0:00Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's G-O-O dot G-L-E slash workspace with Gemini.

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1:10Hello and welcome to Friday's episode of the podcast. Today, a very special guest to answer your questions. Someone who specializes in empowering women to be the best versions of themselves. Today, we're going to talk about how we hold on to our ambition, our confidence and sense of self whilst raising children and juggling everything else that we have to fucking juggle. It's Hermione Olivia. you sold that episode to me then i thought oh yeah i want to listen along oh no actually i've got to answer the questions um thank you so much for coming on thank you for having me i'm thrilled to be here an aussie yeah i'm an aussie aussie in london i mean i've been here for 15 years what brought you to london um there was definitely a boyfriend of course no but i really wanted to come and like live in the real world i wanted a challenge yeah and i definitely got it you did yeah more than i expected just for those listening who don't know you do you want to just give a little bit of background on who you are like businesses you've set up you know what you're doing now so I was like the definition of a type a workaholic um I feel like I still am but I'm like trying to untangle from that kind of label I guess um I have had a number of businesses I had a consultancy for like 15 years and climbed my way up the ladder to become the CEO of one of Australia's biggest supplement companies and was there for a few years scaling it in the UK and Europe and supporting America, which meant a lot of 6am calls and 10pm calls.

2:30And in the midst of it had my first baby. And it was at that point that I realized there has to be something more, there has to be a better way of doing this. And I, I carried on doing it. I went back to work three weeks after I had her full time. I was like that cliche. I think my whole ego and identity was like intertwined with being, you know, like this bad-ass who worked really hard, who was like unstoppable and actually motherhood just cracked me open in the best possible way as it does you know it has a way of just like forcing you to confront your true self yeah and it was such a gift but it took me a little while to catch up with that and I feel like it's still like a constant evolution but through that I ended up leaving and I started a platform called CEO Yourself because it's obviously a play on having been a CEO yeah but wanting to understand what it feels like to be the CEO of your life like to really feel like you're nailing it like the best version of yourself and um it's been such an amazing experience because I get to talk to amazing women like you do and learn from them about what works and like little tips and tricks that you can adapt in your life to feel better yeah why do we why do we feel as women and as mothers that we kind of forget how to be the CEO of ourselves I think because we put everyone else first like naturally you know my husband's always like you don't need to do that you know like this morning I'm like racing around like a crazy person I'm like yeah but I do because if I don't do it now I'll have to do it later you know what I mean like we're always just like we naturally just make the ship move forward you know and I think it's just like female nature really like as nurturers you know yeah but along the way I think it's very easy to lose yourself yeah yeah what do you hear from you know I know you do lots of like events and um chats and things like that what do you hear from mothers like day to day what are what are we struggling with what are their challenges is it trying to juggle work is it not working like what what's sort of the general I think it's not only that these days we try to do everything and be like all things to all people you know like I want to have I want to have my own career I want to be financially independent I want to be the best mom I want to be a great wife I want to host a dinner party like I want to do everything on like not to mention we're being told we need to get up at like 5am to meditate and we need to exercise and we need to like present beautifully but on top of that I think it's because we live in a social media age you're like watching the highlights reel of everyone else so everyone I think is assuming that everyone else's lives are maybe a little bit more perfect than they really are behind closed doors so I think the main thing like particularly in my mentoring is just saying to people like it's completely normal to feel like that you know like I think we're actually all having the same human experience of wanting to be the best versions of ourselves and like try our hardest but we're up against it in a lot of ways like it's really hard and like we were saying earlier like you can't be all things to all people at the same time no it's like we're carrying around a giant whip and just going shame shame shame why the hell do we continue to do that to ourselves i hear it from so many of my female friends who are just constantly like either thinking that they're not good enough, putting themselves down, thinking that they're not achieving enough or not doing enough or not getting up early enough or not being a good enough mother.

5:42And I just, this is why we started Made by Mummers because we wanted to normalize, like you just said, all of those feelings, all of those aspects. We're also growing and raising humans at the same time, which becomes our number one job, the best job and the most rewarding, but also the hardest. It's like, it's a tumble dry of emotions. It really is. I think it's also looking at who are you doing it for? Like, are you doing it for like to make your parents proud or like to impress someone or like for social media clout? Like when you actually unpack that and what I've realized is no one really cares.

6:18Like no one cares if I'm the CEO or if I'm full-time mom, as long as I'm like the people who really love you will love you no matter what, as long as you're happy and thriving, you know? So when I started to unpack, like, who was I actually doing all of this for and for what end goal yeah that's when things started to shift a lot for me and you know I often think about like the mothers at the school gate and like look at who's truly content because some of them are really content doing the school drop-off or not doing the school drop-off and like going and having their powerhouse careers right but some of them are really content just doing the children and like being totally engaged in fact most of my happiest friends are like just totally engaged in that phase yeah but it's not necessarily the ones like me who were trying to do it all it was like racing and and kind of running and I was never really present because I was trying to do everything you know and you can't do it all yeah so pulling back a bit for me which I've been doing lately has been completely game-changing really yeah I do I think it's so difficult because I have this sort of tussle with myself all the time so before I had kids I had a good job and you know I loved my job and it was very fun and like all that kind of thing then when I had kids I became more ambitious but not just with work with like everything like I was like you said I wanted to be an amazing mum I wanted to be making the food and I wanted to be doing this and I wanted to be doing that and then now I think I feel more guilty going to work than I did then like when I honestly didn't care like I did not worry about She really did not.

7:53I really didn't. I really, really didn't. But now they're older, that's turning again. I think that's the thing, isn't it? You kind of go through these phases where you think, okay, yeah, this is me. Like I can do this. And then something changes. And the different stages of like them and what they need from you. I think that's the real, like the ultimate realization is that it's constantly evolving. Yeah. Like right now for me, my kids are really little and they really need me. like physically it's quite demanding. Yeah. And realizing that like my presence and that need, I just have to adjust my own personal needs.

8:32Like even if it's that I socialize less or I don't exercise as much as I used to, it doesn't even necessarily just have to be career stuff. And knowing that that will continue to evolve. Yeah. But also I am selfish. I don't want to be a full-time mom if I'm honest. That's not selfish. Can we remember that? I know. Yeah, but, you know, sometimes I feel like I could be there more, but I love on a Monday morning, like I loved racing here to see you guys. Like I was really excited to get out and to like have an adult conversation and be part of something that's for me, you know. You're right, it's not selfish, but it is.

9:05I've loved keeping a door wide open for myself and my career and my ambitions whilst being a present mum. I don't, and I think that's going to constantly evolve and change. As you said, like I think when they're older, they emotionally need you more. Like I'm already seeing that with my stepson. Yeah. They need less time, but like more devoted time almost. Yeah. One-on-one time. Doing things rather than just kind of, you know, playing with an ice cream, little ice cream. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you have vanilla? Let's play shop. You're actually like, no, no, can we do stuff together? Yeah, yeah.

9:37Which is great. I love that state. Like you've got a seven-year-old, a stepson and a three-year-old and a one-year-old. Yeah. So you're right. I mean, you're in the thick of it. Yeah, I'm in the thick of it. We'll be right back after this short break. But first, here's a little snippet of what we last chatted about over on Made by Mama's Extra. I think it's quite typical. Usually people who are like super like reckless and out there and all of that are always a yoga instructor or a coach or a Reiki healer. I feel like that as soon as you speak to someone like that, you're like you absolutely caned it about 10 years ago and you're here now.

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12:27Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Okay, well, look, we need to get into the thick of the questions because we've had loads. Do you think confidence is something you naturally have or something you have to consciously work on, particularly as a mother? I do think it's something that some people naturally have, I have to say. But I think it's something you can create. Like I really do. So something that has helped me, for example, like walk out on a stage in front of hundreds of people and not feel nervous was I reframed nerves to excitement. Because they're actually like a really similar emotion.

13:02and they have the same effect on your body. So the first few times I would do big presentations or come on something like this, I would be nervous and the nerves would never really serve me. You know what I mean? In actual fact, like sometimes they would like cloud my brain and I wouldn't be able to recall a word or, you know, I'd like overthink what I was going to say, but reframing it to excitement, like, oh my God, I'm so lucky I get to do this makes it all so much more enjoyable. So I think that can support your confidence is, you know thinking oh I'm so lucky to have a job interview you know rather than like oh what if this happens and what if that happens like actually like shift the mindset it's not catastrophizing it's focusing on excitement rather than fear yeah because fear is such an interesting emotion I wonder if you ever discuss it because I think about it all the time yeah me too because I think fear can be so crippling it's almost more crippling than guilt yeah fear is the one that holds us all back from taking those leaps and those jumps and really believing in ourselves Yeah.

14:01I think like most emotions boil down to like love and fear if you think about it. And if you can like shift from the like mirror emotion that's in like the fear into like love. So like I think about like I was talking to my sister about it the other day like you know when you have to go to a cocktail party or something and you know like next to no one and you're like. A cocktail party? We're so empty. Something like that. You know like you're going to something where you don't know anyone. You don't know anyone. Like an event or something. Yeah. You're like really intimidated by it. changing that emotion into like wow I like how excited like I'm so lucky to have been invited like I wonder who I'm gonna meet like even if you if like for me I always go I'm just gonna like go in and talk to the bartender as like a starting point I always used to go to the bartender like talk to the bartender and it's like I don't know like it's like practice or something I don't know it like makes you feel more relaxed and like ready to take on the night yeah but if you can change it into like I'm gonna tell someone like something really quirky and see what their reaction is or like, you know what I mean?

14:58Like almost like make it a game with yourself. You can like totally shift the whole experience. I love that. I do as well. That's really good. Also, if we get to go and speak to hot bartenders, which I've just added in, I'm all over it. This one is really interesting. And actually this is a kind of the conversation I was having with another one of the mums the other night. I've been a stay at home mum for the last 12 years because my husband didn't want me to work. I'm now going through a separation. I'm at home with the kids, desperately trying to start something myself, but I don't even know where to start.

15:27lot that's a really tough situation yeah I think it's seeing you know as I get older I think we have this assumption that you have to have done things by a certain age and I write about it a lot in my book I write about women like Vera Wang she was like a figure skater she like didn't start her dress brand I think until she was in her 50s obviously she's now one of like the most famous couture wedding dress designers in the world and she's like very well known and that That came much later in life and I think the number one thing that I would say to this audience member is there's no right time or like there's no perfect season.

16:09There's no like requirements that you have to have achieved in order to start anything and do anything, you know what I mean? And I'm sure her experience like wrangling the house and like managing the family, you know, she can apply that to whatever she does. And I also think it's just about like just getting started. Like now with AI as well, you know, you have a built-in team member that can help you and guide you and support you and using those tools to your benefit. Do you have any sort of practical tips as to kind of how to start that process? Like maybe journaling or because I think maybe what I'm seeing is that they don't even know what they want to do.

16:47Yeah. I love journaling. I journal every night. Do you? What do you write down? Like dear diary? That's what people always say to me. Like how do you journal? do you know what I it could even be like a to-do list for that week or like the next day but what I find is I sleep so much better if I put pen to paper just like whatever's on my mind I just put it down and sometimes it is more like oh this made me feel like that or I could do better at this or I'd love to achieve that you know what I mean but yeah I think I actually think jealousy can spark interest so like looking on social media for example if you see someone doing something and you're like it can like make you feel a little bit like oh I wish I'd done that jealousy can spark interest that's so interesting and sometimes it's like a good indication of like that's where you want to go you know if someone's doing something because if someone launches like a pottery shop and you're like oh that's good for them but like carrying on with my day yeah not right for you right whereas like for me I'd always wanted to write a book for example and I wanted it so badly to be honest that I just like hid it away somewhere and like never told anyone or even like, to be honest, actively thought about it.

17:51But I pursued all these other careers and I was like, I had a PR company and a jewelry brand and I launched a rosé brand and I did like all these things. And along the way, I did do a lot of writing. Like I was often in comms and like writing press releases and I had a blog and do you know what I mean? Like I was in the realm of writing, but I never even went there. And then a few people around me wrote books and I was like, wow, I would really, really love to do that. But again, in my mind, I was like, it's probably never even going to be feasible for me but I think actually even just thinking about it yeah opens it up to the universe of like making it more almost like real for you or like possible so maybe even looking at what other people are doing and like her past skills I'd write down like what does she love what makes her feel alive like what is like work that to her wouldn't feel like work like what are people around her doing that she would love to be doing yeah and that will start to kind of like show her or like perhaps like lead her in the direction of where she's going to go.

18:51Listen to what you actually want because I think there is so much pressure to do like the right thing or go for a job that is like this because there's a clear pathway but if you actually listen to what you like then you're going to be way more successful anyway. I agree. But also I do think that you know obviously this situation this has come out of a situation where she's now separating. I do think sometimes a bad situation can give you that. it's such a gift that rocket that's like the universe opening up a hole yeah and i know obviously this i don't know what the situation is but it's you know feels probably quite sad it i do think out of a sad situation it can really again if you can like reframe yeah you know into this is like an amazing opportunity for me exactly katie's written in do you ever struggle with comparing yourself to other women who seem to be doing it all i find it really difficult when I see people having the career, the children, the marriage and the social life at the same time, does it exist?

19:46I think it can exist, but I think just go and talk to people around you. Yeah. Like, I don't know everyone around me, I don't know if it's because I'm Australian, but we're all like very real with each other about like the realities of the day. Like I'm very real about like, even if things like look really perfect online, like it's really hard being married. It's really hard having a family and a career and no one has it like perfectly worked out it's also a really hard time in the world yeah you know like even the introduction of ai which is like so amazing as i said earlier like i love ai and i love trying to adopt it and learn about it but it's really scary yeah yeah what jobs will be left do you know what i mean oh my god i had this conversation this morning because i bumped into um a really good friend of mine who's an agent and she used to look after caroline flack actually and we were just talking about our telly and caroline was a good mate of mine and and she was going the the world of our world our tv world that we that we were raised in essentially doesn't exist in the same traditional way as it does anymore and she was having to diversify and she was talking about this podcast and writing and creating and youtube and digital and it was like jesus christ never have we more had to be like octopuses with all these beautiful brilliant creative tentacles coming off us because we can't just do one one thing anymore we have to move and that feels quite scary really scary so I think to answer her question it's like go and have conversations with people who you think appear like that yeah like wherever you can like have that authentic conversation because I don't know anyone who has it all figured out like I really don't like no one has like a perfect life like you can come close but I think it takes a lot of work like that's what my like I try to talk about in my book is like you can have a lot if you're incredibly intentional and if you work really smart and that it doesn't just apply to career.

21:32Like if you're intentional about like the friendships you keep and like the time you invest in yourself and in your family, and you can really shape a life for yourself that feels amazing. And I really believe that to be true. And, but with that said, I don't know anyone who has it all figured out, you know? Like if there's ever a moment where my kids aren't at home because they're at school and I'm not working i'm quite happy to just sit on the sofa for two hours and watch tell me lies or some other shit program nothing brings me more joy than just i'm obsessed love is blind and sometimes it's so tiring to then when you do have those windows of you know intention to actually find the energy to do it like life is fucking tiring my next life i'm a married like really rich guy and i'm just gonna fucking sit on a yaw.

22:25That's what I'm gonna do guys. You say that but you'd be so bored. Yeah but I'd be like having such a nice time making me food. No like I'm just I think I'm tired. Is anyone else tired? I think you're tired. Are you tired? I think I'm tired but I genuinely you know I can't actually sit up. It's a problem. She makes her own raps right from scratch. It's a real problem. So you actually do have life worked out. No I don't. No she does. I'm with you I'm sitting on the couch like i don't i mean i i have life worked probably to if you ask my friends right oh who's the most like capable person in the group they would always be like you Georgia like she's definitely but for instance this morning everything blew up because i hadn't checked if actually done his homework he's missed like three pieces he hasn't done he's in tears James is fuming like so no we don't do you know what i mean like that i i can present like i do probably quite well but underneath I actually don't but that isn't really blowing up because that's like probably everybody's reality in the households across the world everybody's you nail it and I think you should just take it that that is your superpower you don't cry and that's what's wrong with you no I don't but you are fucking amazing generally that's really nice but also I would love to sit on the sofa that's the problem you never cry you can't cry no I can't cry we need to unpack that yeah because I also struggle with crying do you But I tell you what.

23:50Hang out with me for a few days. I think it's like an emotional flaw. It is. I think we're like holding things in unnecessarily. Yeah. Like I actually, I respect people who are emotional and are able to like let it flow. Really cry, yes. Because I actually think it's really good for you to cry. Yeah. I struggle with it as well unless something's really bad. Same. I've worked out a few things that I do feel the sensation of crying. But it's not, it's not like things that maybe most people would. Give us an example. What's that movie with Cameron Diaz when she's like, oh. Yes, it's like that. I think it's the holiday.

24:23It's the holiday when she's like, her whole life is insane. And she's like, it's so hard to cry. I feel like it's going to happen. And then it doesn't. But it's more like, I would cry over my kids, like if I was proud of them. That sort of thing. That's nice. Prove it. That kind of thing would make me cry. No, honestly, this is a hard relate. But not like, I don't know. This sounds really hard. Do you think that Georgia's got some stuff? No, I think I'm only saying that because I also can't cry and I think it's because I have like a major block where I've like held trauma in so much that it's like my heart is like closed off to some things.

24:56Are you quite stoic? Yeah, unless like something really bad happens and then I'm going to like let it flow. But like day to day or like in a sad movie, no. Oh, see, I cry in a sad movie from on a plane. Yeah, something about planes though makes us all really emotional. It's like close to the God or something. It's the altitude. I'm very sure, but my son said it the other day. He actually mentioned that he can't really cry. And I was like, oh, my God. It's contagious, maybe. He said, it's weird, isn't it? He said, like, when I hurt myself, like, in football, I just can't really cry. And I'm like, but you're hurt?

25:31And he's like, yeah, but I can't cry. And then he said, but if I'm angry, I can cry. And I was like, oh, interesting. That's probably good. Interesting. I don't know, but it's just because, you know, like someone says something and then it's like looking in a mirror and you're like. You need to get like a psychiatrist on the show next time. You've got this and I've got this. Well, my husband's cries. I don't know. Who knows? Don't worry. You guys have got it sorted. It's all good. We'll be right back after this short break.

26:00Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini.

26:34Good news for anyone who's bad at waiting. Black Friday deals at Lowe's are already on. Get up to three free select DeWalt, Craftsman, or Cobalt power tools with the purchase of a select battery kit. Three for free? You better believe it. Plus, select ladders are up to 50 % off. So go ahead, get in there early. Shop Black Friday deals in-store or online now at Lowe's. Valid through 1118, while supplies last. Free tools vary based on battery kit purchase and location. This is Nick and Jack from The Best One Yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart business. Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly.

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27:43welcome back to this episode of made by mommas now where were we how do i stop feeling like a bad mom every time i choose something for myself so when i i had a podcast too and i did an episode a week for a year and whenever the cameras cut i would ask all the mums the same question which was like what's your honest advice to me like off camera tell me because i was a new mom at the time almost every single one of them said to me don't waste your time with guilt oh yeah we talk about that and I have really adopted that like I think guilt is such a wasted emotion like no one it doesn't serve anyone right what fear is actually really powerful right because you know like as a mum you can like I've become like superhuman before like woken up in the night and like grabbed the baby as she's like falling off the bed or whatever you know what I mean like there's something like innate enough that becomes like so powerful as a woman in that connection with our kids but guilt doesn't serve anyone like it's a completely wasted emotion because like you're already going off to do that thing so you might as well enjoy it rather than going to do it and feeling bad about it yeah you know what i mean like it doesn't serve the relationship the family the child and it certainly doesn't serve you so like training yourself to drop that feeling of guilt i think is so important as a mother and because i've done that now like i i guess you can counter it as well by being like super present when you're there like I have a friend and she's like really senior and successful at the Bank of America and she's like when I'm at work I'm completely at work yeah when I'm at home with the kids like Bank of America could burn down and I wouldn't know because I am like completely present like doing Lego or playing Barbies or doing homework or whatever it is like her phone and her computer away and she's like even if that means that once they're in bed I have to be up until 4am working I'll do that but that like hour or two I'm just like with them and I'm dedicated to it and I feel like that allows you to feel less guilty when you're off doing work in the day or when you're off at lunch with a friend or whatever it is you know I do think this is the danger with you know it is women like mainly isn't it where we have got like these flexible jobs and these jobs that mean you know you can work from your your phone a bit more or you can because I like I I know exactly that because when I worked in like in office and like I said I'd never felt guilty dropping like my son off to nursery or actually I'd leave quite often before he even woke up I didn't feel guilty I wanted that hour before work to go and have a coffee go for a walk then get to my desk I wanted it but as soon as I got home I was home and that was it now it's not like that I work for myself you know my office is just outside the back like the back door I can dip in and out like in the half term I'm there but I'm not that that I think induces more guilt where you can't there's not really those it's a much which I do I do have to think I'm like god I'm so grateful for this because when I was you know in an office I would love to have had this and being able to see them and all of that kind of thing but I do think it's so much harder to define like those times also I feel like mentally it's like when you're in a corporate gig it's like much more black and white whereas when you work for yourself like friends will be like oh should we go for lunch on Friday and you're like yeah great and then you're kind of like no i can't do that you know what i mean like or someone will be like oh do you want to go to pilates on thursday at 10 and in your mind you want to be like yeah yeah and then you're like no i can't like you almost have to like fake that you have a corporate job yes yeah it becomes like quite blurred the lines yeah yeah and then like the week gets so short in terms of like the actual hours you have to work yeah because you're spending your entire time like kind of half in oh i'm in that half out don't you yeah that's you've that's really not triggering but but but real and I and I can really relate to that so how I do that as well as I like look at my week and I try to have rules within my week so like Monday Tuesday Wednesday it's like no meeting days or um like Mondays for example like no external meetings at all so it's just a complete focus on the I made an exception for you guys thanks thank you you know like you you have like a day where it's like a desk day yeah emails proactive work like real work you know rather than I think when you work for yourself you can spend a lot of time just like reactively responding to things rather than actually like really getting it done and then for me Fridays are like social days yeah so whether that's like work social or like personal social um because like then you look the part you're already out and about you can try and like manage it to be like even back to back in the same place yeah you know and the amount of time you can save from that alone is amazing get people to come to you yeah yeah exactly but they're putting the hat on as if like almost like you have a fake boss yeah you know what I mean that you have to like check in which is like the hard version of yourself and be like should I really be doing this like no oh that's so good you're the big fake boss yeah yeah in my head yeah no I do exactly this I look at my diary and if across the week I've got like too many like meetings in London and they're like on different days and like I'm wasting four hours traveling basically doing that I won't and then I'll I don't know I was kind of yeah I try and do what you do yeah I'm pretty like hardcore about my scheduling yeah because I feel as if you really need to be like to be strategic and to actually get what you want out of like the day the week the month the year look I mean we're already in November like how did that happen I don't know but it's my birthday month so I'm actually thrilled yay but yeah the year can just like fly away you can actually not achieve as much as you want to unless you're like very proactive so I also like plan if I want to achieve something so like for me writing my book I started writing like just after I had my baby so I was like, oh, my God, how am I going to do this?

33:15I put it in as if it was like a board meeting. So it was like two hours on the strategy section working on like the timeline and it was like in my diary and from like 9.01 until like 11, I would work on that section because otherwise I'd still be writing my book. If I didn't like really schedule time in to proactively work on it, it would never have happened. Yeah, no, I totally get that. I think this sort of leads on from our conversation around guilt. um I'm scared if I don't pursue my dreams now I will never do it but I'm also scared of missing these years with the kids how do I make peace with that I've spent the last like almost four years coming to terms with this yeah and I really believe in seasons like you have seasons in your life for different things and for me like I've been ambitious for such a long season I feel like I'm kind of taking my ambition hat off a bit to be like a more nurturing maternal and like feminine version of myself for a little while.

34:11And do you know what's really interesting? The more I lean into it, the more money I'm making. Oh, interesting. How weird is that? I kind of knew what happened. Like it was like when I was dating and I was like, I give up on men and then I like met the love of my life. You know what I mean? How weird, it's like so weird universally how sometimes you have to like surrender to something for it to work. But once I made the decision of like, the way I look at everything I do is like, is this worth the time away from the kids? Like, is it really worth in it and if you start to be like quite savage in your boundaries and you start to say no a lot your yes becomes really powerful and with that came bigger and better opportunities it was kind of like I was like unintentionally like pushing myself into like the next level up you know by being willing to say no to everything right like amazing opportunities came that like were really worthy of saying yes to yeah what do they say um a quick no is better than a drawn out yes yeah and it's i think about because you told me that i think about that all the time yeah it's much easier just to say no than a half yes and then you're gonna say no in the end anyway yeah because i was like a like lifelong paper placer yeah yes yes person so like you'd be like oh do you want to come to this thing tomorrow and in my head i'd be like like immediately i'd be like yeah yeah yeah and then in my head i'd be like i don't want to do that why did i do that yeah and it wasn't until i got married and my sister and i had a really interesting conversation because obviously like you send out your wedding invitations and you're kind of hoping like 10 to 20 percent can't come right so you can like either move to tier two or like because you literally don't have capacity for like all of those people right and there are people that intuitively you know they're going to say no but they kind of like lead you along because they don't want to say no yeah or they say yes and then like at the last minute they don't they pull out or whatever and it's so much worse by then you've like embroidered their like place mat or whatever and you know yeah my sister and I were like every time someone pulled out, we said no, we were like, yes.

36:00Especially the people who said no early. You were like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. You can't come. Proud of them. Yeah. But it wasn't until I was the one who was inviting people to my wedding that I was like all those times with those weddings where I would like linger on the no to anything. It's just better to say upfront because no one cares. Like, you know, you guys must get invited to a million events. Just like saying no straight away. 90 % is a no. Yeah. And also not giving an excuse as to why you can't come. It's like no one needs an excuse. Oh, God, no, I do do that. Also, you know, it's like, oh, I can't come because I've got, like, Johnny's birthday or whatever.

36:31And then they say on Instagram that day that you're not at Johnny's birthday. Like, you know what I mean? You're out for dinner with your friend because, like, you've made up some lie. It's so weird that everyone, like, lies about whatever. You know what I mean? Just say, I'm really sorry. I can't make it. Thank you for the invitation. Oh, my God. So I worked. I don't know why we do that. I'm really sorry. I can't make it. Thank you for the invitation. I'm going to practice. That's what Jamie does, who I work with. Really? he basically just says no and does not give a reason it's really empowering so we all started digging him out in the studio being like yeah but how can you not come to this it's like you know xyz and he was like i don't want to and i was like yeah but do you not want to go and support and he was like no i i'm not i'm gonna be when you guys are there i'm gonna be already tucked up watching my telly in bed and isn't that a great way to live by the way nice to actually do what you want when you want like i know it can like verge on selfish grumpy boring it's brilliant i love it though yeah if you look at little kids i remember my daughter like in front of me one of her friends said to her do you want to come to my party it's i think it was like football it's football she went no thanks and i was like oh cool like okay because if that'd be me i'd be like oh um no i don't think i can on that day because yeah i would been like yes and i would have gone you would have gone to the bloody football party she was just like no thanks um do you think women sometimes wait until they feel completely ready or qualified before going after something and how have you learned to back yourself what a great question yeah 100 i think it is interesting though because some of the businesses i've started if i'm really honest i probably should have waited longer with right so you know how everyone the answer is always like, just do it.

38:17Like just start. Like there's no perfect time. I actually don't know if I agree with that from personal experience. I think there's something to be said for spending more time on the business plan, you know, like, and think about the business plan, like long after launch. Like it's so easy to focus on. I'm just taking it as like starting a business as an example, but it's so easy to focus on like how I bring it to market and how I launch it and how I market it but then what next like you really have to think about like year two three four five when you have like the clarity and perspective where you can work on the business before you're working in the business yeah I also think like staying in your safe stable job for security is like a really good place to be whilst you're building the brand because everything just takes so much longer than you think like building the website manufacturing perfecting samples like whatever it is that you're doing, it takes a really long time to get it ready.

39:10So yes and no. Like I think, I don't believe in like there being a perfect age or like set of circumstances or whatever, especially these days, like there's so many means for support in everything that you do. Even in terms of funding for businesses, like there's so many avenues. However, really nailing and understanding like what your point of difference is, what you're bringing to market what you have to say I think sometimes I have actually maybe rushed it a bit and it's better to really really really perfect it before you bring it great love that yeah that's yeah and that's a different perspective because lots of people say like like just go for it you know you work it out because sometimes I do think like a lot of the people who have the platform to have these conversations have had a lot of luck as well yeah you know I mean like there is luck involved in businesses working and not working.

39:59Yeah. So it's easy to say like if your business has worked, but I've had a lot of businesses that haven't. So I'm happy to be honest about it. Yeah. No, that's really interesting. Demanding job, five days in the office, but good pay. Is it worth it if you have a young family? That's a really, really, really hard question. It really depends on your set of circumstances and it depends on the flexibility and the team and like the purpose and the mission and everything you're doing. Isn't it, isn't it about Well, isn't it about us though? Isn't it about how it makes us feel? I mean, I guess that's like an idealistic way of looking at it that, you know, perhaps this person has to do it out of necessity.

40:40And that's the only job, even though it's really demanding and it's taking you away for five days a week, five days a week. but I also think that if we feel fulfilled in our careers and we really love it that's the that that for me is kind of like the utopia moment because actually yeah okay you're not having as much time with your kids but your job is so fulfilling and you love it so much and you're progressing and you know it's bringing you all that all that happiness is it a job that you absolutely fucking hate and you're missing time away from your children and that would be a really tough one for me yeah because I really believe like happy mum happy family yeah and so it is about like what it brings for you and then like how you can bring that energy back into the family dynamic you're so right thank you for answering the question better than I could have found out no she's worried about your throat no no okay I do think sometimes when there's a choice it makes things harder because if you don't have the choice you know like if you know you have to work five days a week and you know that you've got to stick at this job because of x y and z i think you just don't question it do you yeah just like i have to but i think when there's a choice that's the tricky bit and i think that's when you can feel like pulled with you know between being at home and being at work because yeah if you have got the choice then that's it's difficult um yeah isn't that funny how like the luxury of choice can actually make it more challenging oh wow yeah A million percent.

42:05Uh-huh. Like in everything actually. Mm-hmm. Whereas if, yeah, if there's no choice, then I don't know, you just get on with it, don't you? Do you? Don't you fucking hate it? You might do, but I don't know if you give it the headspace. No, I agree with you. I think that if you just have to get up and get on with it, which is ironically like the shift in our generation for women is there's like so much choice. Yeah. Like the earlier question about I don't know what I want to do, it is hard because you go online and like everyone's seemingly doing something and doing it so well and like achieving so much.

42:40And like, I don't know about you, but like every business now it's like, oh, I made a million dollars in my first day. I made a million dollars in my first week. And you're just like, what? Who's the Filofax woman? Yeah. Who's the Filofax woman? I mean, it has made me want to buy one. I'm not even going to lie. It has made me want to buy one. Good for her. You are not buying one of those. Well, I might now. No, you're not. You go down to Ryman's and get one. But I love it for her. I half love it that you can do that what was that no I just I just good for her no good for her I'm just I'm just pointing out that I will not let you get one no uh best advice for going back this is the last question best advice for going back to work after mat leave juggling school and nursery pickups drop drop offs that's from Jade for me it's like take a breath and just like slow down like I think for a long time I was just like rushing through everything and actually if you can just like just take a minute like even if it means as I said earlier like doing less you know like okay yeah you you don't get to see that friend or you like it's a season of life where you're like less social you don't do as much exercise I don't know you don't have as many personal pursuits but you like make it enjoyable to like this this morning for example I dropped my daughter at nursery and I like took the time to go and get a coffee with my baby and we like sat there together and like I you know and just even having like 10 minutes but not like running back home you know what I mean like just yeah slowing down a bit and just trying to like do it in an intentional way and like being present with it and like make it fun and enjoyable I think is I don't know for me just I felt like life was just like racing away from me yeah so I was just like always trying to juggle so much yeah and I think just accepting it in this season just can't do it all yeah pockets of calm yeah I mean pockets of calm I think that's all we've got time for yeah i know 43 minutes later that went by in a flash didn't it thank you so much for coming in today and i'm sure the book is oh yeah the book is out now it's called ceo yourself okay and um it's yeah it's been such an interesting journey bringing it to market so far really good feedback which is nice that's amazing i don't know if it helps people in some way i'm sure it has thank you so much come on you everyone loves that

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