Kelly Somers on Living with PMOS

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0:43To learn more, go to mod.com. Fill out your intake form, meet with a licensed provider, and if approved, ModAlert ships straight to your door. Go to mod.com to get started. That's M-O-D dot com.

1:24to book your first visit. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Hello and welcome to Made by Mamas, the podcast. I'm Zoe Hardman. And I'm Georgia Dayton. And this is your parenting safe space where no conversation is off limits. With five kids between G and I, we have seen a lot. We really have. Each week, we'll be joined by some famous faces and experts, and we'll chat about the brands and products that have saved us along the way. In short, we're the parenting podcast for you. Before we get started, hit subscribe or follow so you're the first to know when each episode lands.

2:00And they're on Tuesdays and Fridays. And it really helps if you leave a rating and a review. You can also find us on Instagram. We're on at Made by Mummers. But for now, George, should we get into it? Joining us on the podcast today, we have got a presenter and I know that Zoe would be gutted to be missing this one today um sports presenter first time mom soon to be mom of two it's kelly solvers i'm still not used to people saying that like i'm heavily pregnant but it's still like oh my gosh two little people are gonna be my problem yeah no not my problem my responsibility it's a blessing but it's it's getting real now yeah i know i think when people start referring to you is like seeing to be mother too you're like oh yeah oh yeah no this isn't pretend no it's happening I've still got a little while but yeah it's ramping up now the baby's true at the end of the year and all of a sudden like people talking to me about Christmas and stuff makes me go normally I'm like yeah I love Christmas whereas now I'm like yeah it's gonna look a bit different this year but anyway no it's really it is a really exciting time as well oh just for people who listening who don't know what you do do you want to just give us a little bit of background yeah so I I mainly work for BBC in the Premier League, but I'm a freelance, mainly football presenter.

3:14Yeah. I was with England at the World Cup this summer. And if you saw, this is the easiest way to like the mainstream people that maybe aren't your diehard football fans. If you saw the Harry Kane interview where he lost his voice this summer, that was me that did that interview, which was nothing to do with me. It was pure luck in that instance where he came over and yeah, he'd just not got a voice and we went viral kind of between us, I suppose. So yeah, that's why I do. I interview footballers. I work heavily on fantasy Premier League, which I've actually realized now, like people nod along, but a lot of people's partners play that.

3:52I was in Mallorca a couple of weeks ago and my daughter started playing with another little boy and the dad was like, not doing a podcast, a fantasy pod this week. And I was like, oh, I was like, yeah, I did one in my hotel room yesterday morning, actually. So yeah, I do a lot of interviewing. I've got a football interview series on the BBC. So I go around and interview current and ex-footballers, go to games. Yeah, that kind of thing. How did you get into it? Were you always into football? So I was and still am really. I clarify, I like say I'm a girly girl. I am. I like makeup, all of that kind of thing.

4:22But my mum always went to football. Oh, right. So that's why it's always been normal for me. Yeah. So my mum went to football. Sorry, I've had a cough this whole pregnancy. When you get ill when you're pregnant, you can't take it. No. And I just, so sorry if I'm going to keep doing that. Yeah, my mum went to football and it was just normal. And I wasn't interested. And then we're Watford fans in our house for our sins. And they got to a playoff final and I just wanted to go. And my mum was a bit like, a waste of money. She won't like this. And I fell in love with it. You loved it. And I think I was eight.

4:55Oh, wow. So I was really young. And like, I know it now from like being around friends with kids. A lot of kids when you talk to football, they're more interested in the noise, the colour and everything. Yeah. But my mum says straight away she could tell I was a bit more like asking why things were happening. And from then on, I then went through, I think the inevitable phase everyone goes through with a tomboy. I want to like football. I'm going to wear a football kit all the time. And then I kind of realized you didn't need to do that. Yeah. Then I won a journalism competition to go in the press box at Watford.

5:23Realized I could kind of combine it both. And yeah, all these years later. That's so exciting. It is really cool. And I think it's so nice as well. Like for, you know, you had your mum who loved football. but for girls now you know being able to turn on the screen and see more women it's great there was people I often think like people say to me oh you're like little girls look up to you and they do they message me and stuff on Instagram younger girls and younger boys too but there were like people like Gabby Logan who is still on our tv screens now yeah of course she was someone that I looked up to then um so I think people like that are like the real trailblazers but the good thing now is there is more of us there's still not enough but there's more yeah and tell us a little a bit about your home life you've got a little girl and one on the way how how's your morning been what's what's the normal day this morning's been okay at the moment we're going through trying to get her to sleep in our own bed so she's three in a few weeks and do you know what I cannot complain she's she's not easy no child is easy yeah but as she's very she's not really boisterous yeah she's been a early talker so she's always been able to tell us what's wrong she's very articulate like I don't think she always knows what she's saying but like yesterday she said mummy this dinner is unbelievable it took her ages to get unbelievable but she's very good at talking and she's so good in so many ways but sleep was a bit of an issue she slept till she was six months then didn't sleep from six to 18 months and given the job I do in some early mornings oh she ended up co-sleeping because it was the only way we could get her to sleep yeah and then this summer when we're like we're gonna have another baby soon this we've got to get her in our own room her room's ready and so she was the one that said yeah I want to sleep in my own bed because I got like a cute little floor bed there's like a house yeah made it all really lovely in there she loves her room but getting her to stay in there through the night is is tough um and so last night it was a lot of wakes between seven and midnight which I can deal with because i'm still awake pretty much and then my partner my partner went in and eventually got her to stay the night before it was three three wake-ups like two three four oh and then it's that whole thing isn't it of like i think as a parent you're constantly compromising between i need i know the long-term thing to do yes right is to keep putting her back in her bed but it's also being tossed up with i need sleep i need to look after myself here i'm heavily pregnant i can't keep getting up yeah um so I think half five in the morning I gave up but last night she did the earlier wake-ups and then slept so I feel like I probably had eight hours sleep do you think you would be doing it if you didn't have a baby on the way or is that like the motivation yeah I think probably for an easy time yeah because I feel like everything else that she's done she's done at her own pace and she's I breastfed for a lot longer than I expected and I was so scared to stop for her but she just kind of stopped right it just I was away a little bit for work and she just kind of didn't ask because she was speaking buzz and I stopped she wasn't interested and I just kept giving bottle and it just became and I think I would have just hoped that sleep would have become the same thing but yeah this is definitely accelerated it and that's probably what my partner would say is one of the good things about us having another baby is because he for ages was like Kelly we need to get her out of our bed which we do we did why still because it's it's funny because when Zoe and I had our first, like co-sleeping was like this bad thing.

8:53I can't even describe it to you. It changed a bit, hasn't it? Everyone you spoke to would be like, oh my God, you can't do that. Basically, it would be like, your relationship will be over. You know, you're going to squash the baby. It was like this real scaremongering thing. So it was something that we didn't even consider doing because it felt so scary. And then obviously we've been doing this podcast for 10 years or whatever. and the narrative has changed so much when it comes to co-sleeping and now I'm like oh my god I think I need another baby so I can co-sleep you know I flip between the constant and I think this is a constant motherhood thing where I flip between the they're only young for so yeah one hour long for her to want to be in my bed yeah and there is something really lovely about like she does I know when she wakes in the night she just snuggles up to me but she's bigger now we've got a king-sized bed and it's just not always practical and the amount of mornings we wake up where I'm here, my partner's here, and she's there.

9:48Across, yeah. And we're both clinging to the edge, and we aren't sleeping well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only person sleeping well here is the two-year-old who would sleep well, like, when she's asleep, I think you could hang her upside down, we don't. Yeah. And she would sleep, so it's like, actually, for our own well-being. But then there is mornings, like this morning when she, because she came in at like half five in the end. No, no, this morning, this is how tired I am. You can't remember, this morning, actually, once she went to sleep, sleep she didn't come in till seven and so then I pull her in and she's fine and then it's really lovely she kind of nestles in for a bit and then she starts like and the first thing you hear is her going mommy and it's really sweet and I know one hour long for that so I'm I guess I want a happy medium really yeah you're in that but I constantly have that thing of in a couple of months there's going to be a baby there that is going to be waking every few hours that will then wake the then three-year-old we might never sleep yeah that could that could so so it I get it that's what I keep every time I'm like oh it's lovely having her in bed I have to remember it's lovely now but come January I'm gonna be demented yeah honestly yeah totally yeah that started by you asking me how my morning was and I've just given you a whole history of how I can't get my child to sleep in her own bed.

11:04That's handy for a podcast because it's awkward when people come on and answer yes or no. We don't want that. We never want that. I think the answer to your question, how was your morning, is actually because I had more sleep than usual, not too bad. Not too bad. And I got up. She got up fine. She got ready. You know those mornings where they just listen to you and get ready? She was excited because she's gone to swimming. Mummy was excited because I do like going swimming with her once I'm in but she's at the age where I have to get in and I have to dunk my head under to show her that it's fine.

11:34Yeah. And some Monday mornings, it's just not. So this morning, actually, I was like, I'm quite happy that's not me. Yeah, not there. Do you take a dressing gown to the swimming pool? Do you know what? Myself, because my partner's taken her this morning, we had the whole, we're still, because she's only restarted recently. She went when she was really little. Then we moved to kind of a warm enough pool. I know that sounds really blue. No, no, no, no. I get that. I think when they're that little as well. Yeah. And also, you don't want them to be put off. That's what I think. On holiday, in the summer when we went, it was too cold for her.

12:00Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But we had it this morning where, you know, like the constant, how does a dad parent, how does the mum parent? So I packed her bag and he's like, oh, you've not put a towel in? I was like, well, last time the towels I put in were dry. So I just thought I'd let you pick what towels you want. And he was like, oh, yeah, we just take one and share it. And I was like, oh, rogue. And he was like, well, I just get her out, wrap her up in it and then it's quick. And then I get in there and then she's small so I can still use the rest of the towel. And I was like, why are you being so tight with towels?

12:31but there must have been some method whereas I I leave you know like the hooded one yeah for her I leave that by the pool so as soon as she comes out I wrap her in that and then I don't want to be cold so I just wrap myself in a towel but there's no showers at these pools so there is a case of like just get yourself dry and get out there as soon as possible yeah get the car really warm get home as soon as possible and then I'm sure then it's all right I think she'll be in the bath around now actually so but yeah it was interesting where I was like we then started having you know those conversations you never think you're going to have as parents like we're talking about what towel you should be taking to a swimming lesson and getting into night wasn't an argument but like a little debate I was like this is so boring just take whatever towel yeah it doesn't matter as long as she doesn't get ill I don't care I remember saying to my husband like exactly the same situation we I actually second time around I didn't want to do any of the swimming stuff because I didn't want to get into the pool and so I'd be like take a dressing gown for you right because I was like it was like the biggest game changer for me because then I just like be warm in a dressing gown and not standing because you sort them out first yeah sort them all out like then they're all happy and then I could sort myself out and he was like I'm taking a dressing gown like literally he was like horrified he was like I'm not taking a dressing gown are you joking what do you think I am I was like what do you mean it's just a dressing gown and then I remember having a big argument over taking a dressing gown and how over the top he thought that was and how like it was really like I don't know I just yeah the conversation maybe don't take a dressing out it's not a good idea I sometimes think like some of the conversations you have as parents if someone could have told you yeah if anyone else could hear yeah yeah it's ridiculous like later like even this morning I was thinking why was I moaning that he wasn't taking two towels if anything he saved me a bit of washing yeah yeah like it's so silly it is no it is you're right we'll be right back after this short break

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16:30Midlife needs MIDI. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit today. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage. Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? Just before we get back on to today's parenting, talk to us a little bit about your fertility journey. I know you've spoken about PCOS. Just, yeah, just take us back. I think journey is the word. Yeah. Because obviously I'm incredibly fortunate to have one, nearly two children. I was put on the pill very, very young. And no judgment to my mum for doing this because I think 20 odd years ago when, like, if there was, I had really bad acne.

17:13Yeah, I was on the pill really young. And I started my period really young. But when the acne was there, there was no connection that it could be hormonal because I started my period young. So it was like, what do we do? We treat the acne in isolation. Whereas I think now we're getting better as a society at looking at things more holistically, so to speak. So I was just put on the pill. Not the really serious. There was like, I remember there was various ones. But it was a pill that essentially regulated my periods from when I was 13, 14. Yeah, I think I was the same. kind of have your body altered, I suppose, go against what it was trying to do.

17:51And looking back, the skin was just caused by hormonal imbalance because that's what PCOS is. It's not actually called PCOS now. It's called P... I don't want to say this wrong because you get a lot of pushback. I call it PCOS because that was what it was called when I was diagnosed, but I now know that I think it might be called PMOS. Thank you. Yes. There we go. Yeah. So PMOS is now what it's called. I think, cause I think they've added in, why am I going to try and guess? Menstrual. I would guess that too. But I can't remember what the rest of it is. Anyway. Metabolic. There we go. So yeah, I went on the pill and then when I was 18, I was, I think it was my first time at uni came back for Christmas and I obviously overdid it.

18:38And uni came back. I was getting really bad headaches, but just thought, I was just not looking after ourselves. Like all of us were a bit unwell. Came back and then went Christmas tree shopping with my mum. Felt really ill and that's like my favourite thing to do. And then I came back and basically lost all feeling. And like, I remember being on a laptop, got home. My mum was, I couldn't like help putting the tree up, which is really not me. I was on a laptop like typing away and then all of a sudden I dropped the laptop and like I lost all feeling. And our automatic reaction was, it's a stroke.

19:06Stroke, yeah. So mum called an ambulance, must have been really scary for her. within 15 minutes it all came back and it was fine and so they investigated for a stroke but it was called sensory aura but I had to have loads of tests and like brain scans and stuff for them to realize that obviously as soon as they do that they take you straight off the pill and then there was my body basically unregulated for the first time and my body was probably like so that was probably like four or five years after I've been on the pill my body was like trying to refine recalibrate I suppose yeah and um I'd read up and I knew that after coming off the pill it can take a couple of years to go back to normal cycles so I was having like really big cycles but didn't think anything of it because I was just my body and then I realized I was like 26 27 and it was still happening and then I started to get the pain and the acne was back and I think as you get older you want to know more about your body yeah yeah and so I started to go to the doctors and there wasn't really answers and then I think I was about 28 when they said right we think you've got endometriosis and I was like it didn't add up because I had friends with endometriosis and I feel like I was around a lot of people with it so I had a more of an understanding of it and I was literally one appointment away from having the operation to remove it and the lady that I saw I just got really lucky the last person I saw and she said if you're not sure you're not trying for a baby now and you're not in excruciating pain don't have the if you and my daughter should I'm not she said I'm not allowed to give you advice but the one thing I would say is if you're my daughter I'd tell you not to have it and I was like yeah that's what my gut's saying and I got lucky because she was just being a nice human yeah and then I moved back to London around that point and I went and I paid to go privately and very quickly they as soon as they scanned did all the tests they were like yeah it's PCOS because that's what it's called then and that felt amazing to know but also was really scary but everyone always flits at you don't worry Victoria Beckham's got it and she's got four kids yeah and it's like yeah but I can give you a hundred examples of people who yeah don't so when they gave you the diagnosis was that instantly at that age where your mind went to fertility yeah yeah because I could never I always wanted to be a mom yeah but because I was so hell-bent I look back on my 20s and I was just I left uni I was going to do a post-grad in journalism I didn't because I got a job working at Bournemouth I worked in the press department there and kind of did my training on the job so to speak yeah then got kind of spotted and got a job working for the premier league as a junior presenter but all of this time even when I was doing those jobs I was going out and like at weekends I was doing work experience at talk sport and working for free at all these places to get experience so my whole 20s were dedicated to working and carving out my career yeah but then as this fertility stuff in the background was going on and some of my friends were starting to have children I was like am I I've been really foolish here and I'm going to get to my mid thirties and then it's too late.

21:58Yes. There's been a big problem that I didn't know about. Yeah, totally. So that's why I needed the answers. And then when I got the answer, then you go, okay, I've got a bit of a decision here now. Do I, and I'm a worrier and overthinker. And it just, I think it reframed my partners in the same industry and we wanted children, but it wasn't immediate thing. And I just said to him, I think maybe we've, we've got to rethink this. um and he didn't know much about it why should he yeah and I just did a lot more research and tried the lifestyle changes and things but even when you get diagnosed with this there's different types of PMOS you can have the insulin resistant one and I was never really sure which one I had so I started to get my cycles monitored and they said you are ovulating but I never knew when like right a normal cycle is 28 days you ovulate around day 14 I would ovulate I would have a cycle that would some months I'd have cycles that would be 35 days and I'd ovulate on like day 28 which is very late and then I'd be worried well in that seven days is that enough the body to do what it wants it needs to do some months I would like I remember during the euro 2021 because I was stressed I had a 65 day cycle and you feel horrible when you're having so it was I think it just reframed how I thought about it and made me go okay I don't have all the time in the world now like I've I've got to prioritize different things yeah and so so you obviously You tried diet, you tried like all the different things.

23:23How did you come to fall pregnant? Do you know what? And this is the thing where we can go back to the Victoria Beckham example. Maybe you can use me as one. I fell pregnant pretty easily, naturally in the end. With my daughter, I did do the whole diet. I did a few months of like, I think I'm not very good. I've got a real sweet tooth. I'm not a huge drinker, but I like a glass of wine. and I just didn't drink did all the healthy eating stuff just got my body into a good place and we fell pregnant really really quickly and I felt it was really weird once I fell pregnant I felt released like I was like yeah I've been worrying about this probably since I came off the pill really and actually my body can do it but I did have to go and get my cycles monitored right I had to go private and had to pay so each month someone basically go now because right i normal ovulation test didn't work so you couldn't have used the sticks or any of that that said i i did in the end i did use the sticks because he would say to me the man he's an incredible he's based in harley street and in hartfordshire he's called bill smith and he's like the godfather of pregnancy he's helped so many famous people like i'm not not putting myself in that bracket but i know he's he's really old now but he does it for the love he's he's been like night and stuff and he's he's amazing I was just really lucky that I was introduced to him through an acupuncturist because again I went down the acupuncture route yeah down through every route and he's yeah he's absolutely amazing and he he would he could literally honestly he could literally scan you and go give you a full diagnosis he's amazing um and he would say don't go get those expensive tests he's like but I think from looking at this Monday Tuesday or Wednesday use just the really cheap ones and even like during my first pregnancy I remember like five days after ovulation on conception he could tell from the scan he was I think this is gonna be a successful pregnancy I was like nah you can't see that and he was right so I had a combination of the sticks did work in the end but only because he had yeah it wouldn't have been the right time I wouldn't have known it was that time of the month so it's so interesting because my hormones are completely off balance yeah and then how about after you had your daughter did like were your cycles still complete so I so I write down all of my cycles right I've got I've literally got a note on my iPhone probably since 2019 I reckon 2020 I know it's that far back because I remember there's COVID within that yeah and it's like and I'll often I'll just write down my symptoms like anything slightly out of the ordinary just so that I can track it is it's a a way of having control over something really I had very little control of.

26:11And yeah, after my daughter, so my daughter was born in November 2023, and I was fuming actually because I had a period in January. What? And I breastfed. And I was like, that means I've not even had a whole year of not having periods. That's not fair. Yeah. And at first, if I look back, they were like 28 days, and I was like, I'm cured. Yeah. I wasn't six months later. like and I actually are because I ended up in a c-section with my daughter I've ended up with adenomyosis as well which is like endometriosis but just slightly different and the tissue lining grows on the I think it's on the uterus I can't remember to be honest I haven't looked into that one too much because I found it quite overwhelming when they said to me oh there's there's like tissue and stuff in the wrong place and I was like no I don't need anything else yeah yeah yeah totally and so now obviously you're pregnant again which is amazing I had to go through the same process again you did okay fine so it was exactly the same again so looking back and say if your daughter came to you with these symptoms what would you suggest to her?

27:18say she's 20 I hope when I look at the changes even when I was diagnosed in 28 so that's six years, seven years ago now I always think I'm older than I am um I think society has changed even since then and I think the research and the awareness and people talking about and that was why it's quite important for me to talk about it because you only ever hear the people like and it everyone only cares about the end journey the end result and that's what I feel like as a society it's like oh she's got two children no one cares about the journey going back yeah exactly yeah and like the stress and the mental toll that it can take on kind of take on you and I think I would just say to her keep pushing you have to be your own advocate no one else cares if you have a baby or not yeah you do yeah and if you know something's not right like so I had some problems at the beginning of this year um well after my c-section with my daughter the pain it just wasn't quite right and again I went back to Bill and he was the one that in the end was like I think you've got anomyosis but I went through the NHS and they said that I'd got a cyst and they wanted to operate on the cyst and that's why I went back to Bill because I was like I don't want to have an operation I don't need to have and I went back to Bill and he was like you haven't got a cyst but where I was having a period each month all of the stuff from the C-section was like building up and right my body almost has to clear it out every month I think I think that's basically what he meant that's the way I interpreted it yeah yeah yeah and so I I was very fortunate there that because I could have just had an unnecessary operation again on the NHS and I chose not to but I think it's like go with your gut and push but I also feel very fortunate that I can afford to go privately when I need to because what scares me is there are so many people that must be misdiagnosed yeah I was I was gonna say I think what's so important about having all these conversations is just like it's not even someone listening to this might be like oh my friend says that they've got those sorts of symptoms oh maybe they should do this and having the information is amazing but equally I can imagine when you're told you have something like that the worry with not being able to have a child can just it's also I think there was like an element of when you're told it everyone's like well you've got that move on now like you deal with that it's it's not it's not life-threatening although PMOS can actually have longer term problems further down the line in terms of like high risk of diabetes and things like that yeah so we shouldn't isolate it to just a fertility problem because it's not like I don't know how it can affect me later in life hopefully it won't it hasn't affected my fertility but you just don't know and I think there is there's so many symptoms also there's so many overlapping symptoms I don't almost don't blame some of the doctors that thought it was endometriosis yeah but I went with my gut and that's what I'd say to my daughter I think it's just like go for you trust your gut advocate for yourself and keep pushing like the beginning of this year when I had some problems again the NHS were just like no no no everything's fine and it's like it's not and it wasn't and it got solved and it was all fine in the end but had I not gone back to Bill again it wouldn't have been yeah and I guess as well like you don't you never know like if you find out in your early 20s that you have something like this does that then change your whole trajectory and you think to yourself oh I'm gonna have kids earlier because I don't know how I've got and I guess just having all of the the answers and yeah resources the other thing I would say is don't google too much yeah exactly yeah yeah and I think that's what's quite scary in that sometimes there's a dismissal from health people and that is not any slight on the NHS at all by the way because I think women's health is it's just underfunded it's just underfunded and I think the more people that have conversations about it will hopefully hopefully change that but you can kind of be just dismissed and that that is it's the mental side of things yeah because it's not just having that thing in isolation it's what that means for your life yeah I guess yeah in so many ways because if probably had I been I often think about this had I been diagnosed like 23 24 would I have like thought okay I'm not gonna prioritize my career as much yeah and maybe have children I don't know yeah I'm glad I didn't like it's all worked out incredibly well I'm very very lucky but yeah it's actually mad that fertility can have such an impact on a woman's life because you said like yeah I think I had my my first at 26 which is quite young I guess like to have younger now isn't it yeah it's younger now and I think to myself if I'd have thought I had something like that I could have even done that even earlier because I would have thought well you know I've got a partner we're you know we live together and that would have been the main focus but yeah is that it's wild that that's such a consideration I've been with my partner now for it'll be 12 and a half yeah 12 and a half years yeah and so we could have we met when we were or we start we got together when I was like 22 23 but I don't think either of us like financially or career-wise were in the right place but maybe that would have changed yeah it is what and that was what when we did get the diagnosis um it was just before COVID then COVID happened and then we got engaged and then it was like okay this is something to really think about now we haven't really got an excuse like we'd bought a place together we were more settled I mean both of us work in an industry that's not very settled but we're more settled than we have been yeah so it was like okay now this is the time and I think he also knew and particularly with the second actually because we'd always said that we wanted like a bigger age gap yeah um I'm actually really happy that the age gap is literally going to be three years now I'm really pleased with that but I'd always thought oh it'll be four or five years to enable like so that my daughter's in school before the next one comes along to make it easier with my work but actually once I found out about the ademiosis I had some problems at the beginning of this year again and I was like what am I waiting for yeah and I think my partner my partner in particular I don't think he might be saying this would have was the one that was like let's wait let's wait and I was like I can't because this is consuming me all the time yeah that's a bad personality trait of mine in that something does take over my head but I think he saw the effect it was having on me yeah but it does and I think it's so natural we'll be right back after this short break

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36:14Welcome back to this episode of Made by Mamas. Now, where were we? so let's talk about the imminent arrival no no I don't mean to sound like my life's ending no how are you feeling how how do you feel about giving your daughter a sibling do you know what she is so excited like we didn't tell her I mean we told everyone quite late because I was pregnant at the world cup but I didn't really want the world I didn't want people to know at that point I just wanted to go and do a job yeah just get on with it um you don't want people to ask you about No, I just didn't want to be the pregnant presenter, the pregnant reporter.

36:50I just wanted to be the, like, I was just doing a job. I also didn't want to worry all my colleagues because I think when you're around a pregnant person, I've worked with some lovely people that I know would just worry about me. And I didn't want that. I knew I was fine. I knew what I needed to do to be fine. I'm also very much of the mindset during my pregnancies. I think maybe because I work with a lot of men and in an industry where pregnant people aren't the most common. Although it's becoming more. I just wanted to get on with it. but um we i can't remember the question now that is baby brain what did you ask me just how you're feeling oh yeah giving you a drink so it was so we didn't tell her until we got back and she was so excited and she has been like every morning she wakes up and says can i kiss the baby um she talks to it now because i've said well he or she can hear you um she talks a lot when we're out can i buy that for the baby and when we meet new people she says i'm getting another baby it's very much her baby it's her baby this is not my baby I should correct myself here um so she seems very excited but of course she doesn't know the reality yeah yeah yeah I feel I feel really positive about it because she is so positive about it but obviously I am nervous because you do hear of and my Instagram algorithm at the moment is very much like oh baby number two's on the way but your relationship with baby number one will never be the same and it's like or like i don't know it's yeah there's loads of like and it's and it's talking about like all the brain changes she'll go through and like all the ways you can stop this being like a obviously i think that's really not helpful no but i think that's not yeah because i i'm an only child and so oh are you oh interesting so i was quite happy having one child and see i I was the opposite because I was the only child and it's and my partner was one of three and he's got two half sisters as well yeah and he would have been probably quite happy just with one oh see I was happy with having one and so when I I actually we didn't plan to have a second it wasn't like I definitely don't want but you know just did it just happened don't go on record happened but for the pregnancy I really worried like and I'm not actually a worrier but I'm really worried about like oh my god have I ruined my son's life like I haven't had those thoughts yet yeah but I I didn't know why but had I started reading all that brain stuff I think I would have been like I think it's because my daughter my daughter is she's I mean she's she's not even three yet she's about to turn three as I said I'm not going to pretend she's a child genius she's not like I'm not one of those mums that thinks my child's really clever but she does tend to articulate how she feels we've had one thing when she was crying one day and she said I don't want the baby to come and I was like okay well too late yeah um but on the whole we could talk to her a lot about it like we've got we got books when we told her I did a lot of reading into how to tell her yes and I don't who knows if it's actually right yeah but like we got her a balloon she loves balloons and to be honest at first she was more excited about the balloon than the baby but we got like books that and there's like one and the little girl in it no little boy I can't which way around it is goes he's he's gonna become a big is it kind of I think big yeah she's gonna become a big sister and the mummy goes into hospital she goes to granny's house mummy goes to hospital in the car so she I my little girl knows that that's what's gonna happen like she'll go to my mum's and she like every time she goes my mum's at the moment she goes oh you're going to hospital no not yet so I think I've tried to help her understand what's coming and she knows that it's going to be Halloween or it's her dad's birthday this weekend she knows it's going to be Halloween then her birthday then mommy's birthday because I'm a Christmas baby too then Christmas and then around Christmas time baby's going to come yeah so she kind of knows you don't know how much they know do you really no no no no you don't all I can do is try and give her the information yeah and I feel like I've done all I can at the moment and things like Like people said to me, get her a present from the baby.

40:51Yeah, I did that to be fair. Yeah, and all that kind of thing. Like I'm going to do the best I can. She's really close to my mum. So, and I know my mum will be around a lot. Yeah. My son actually now still, maybe he doesn't believe this anymore, but maybe last year he said to me, you know when Gigi bought me that Hot Wheels thing? And I was like, yeah, you know, like, no, no. Yeah. Is it here? Yeah. how did how did she do that oh no he's at the age of his ask for logistics how did she do that it was in the hospital she had and I'm thinking to myself mate surely you know how old is he he's nearly 10 he was like at the time when he said it he was nearly 10 he's over 10 now but he still remembered that she'd bought him a Hot Wheels thing when she was born and he couldn't quite like that shows it's important I must not forget this present then cross together that she'd done that because I think for ages he's always like oh my baby sister got me this and then obviously as he got older he's like oh that's what Gigi got me when she okay and then like you know the penny starts to drop like hang on a minute you fooled me there like you bought that I'm hoping I've got a few years before she yeah no she's not going to but the fact that your son still talks about age 10 I'm not gonna forget he still does and I really do think that was like I don't know just what he was used to we had a three-year age gap and I think he was used to being an only child for those three years and that was almost like oh my god how amazing oh no he was he was fine was he yeah yeah absolutely like no worries at all because she's really good with like other babies and really kind with them and really gentle and she's seen a couple of her other friends yeah have siblings and she talks about brothers and sisters a lot so I think she gets it I'm I am worried about like a week after the baby comes when the reality hits and if she's like this baby's not going anywhere yeah yeah that's that's the bit but I feel quite positive about how we're preparing and how she's reacted so far I honestly I think I had all of these work like I had all the worries before and then it was totally fine I mean now sometimes we have like I don't know like for instance there'll be nights where Gigi will stay at my mum's because she's got something on the next day or whatever and um it'd be just me my husband and my son he's like like the good old days you know like he really plays on that.

43:11I think that's important though isn't it? I've read that as well like you have to give them one on one time and yes because he's only he'd only ever had one on one time before they met my daughter and so you can't their life has changed overnight so you need to almost like ease them into it or give them snippets of the older. We took him to like Diggerland a couple of weeks after she was born and he had like a day on his own. Oh my gosh postpartum going to Diggerland? You're a hero. No but I swear it's really different when it's like the second time I mean I wouldn't have done that the first time but yeah we did really make those those days where he was just on his own with us and like my mum was around and could that's the thing my at the moment my daughter goes to my mum on a Thursday night because I work Friday mornings in central London and um I'll be taking a couple of months off from that but she still will go to my mum's on a Thursday night because my mum takes her to a dance class on a Friday morning and she needs that bit of normality yeah and we'll probably need that bit of time just to have one and it's like she's she only goes to preschool a couple of mornings a week at the moment um but in january her funding kicks in which is amazing so we can send her a little bit more yeah um but we're going to test her on a couple of full days over the next few weeks so that she doesn't feel like in january she's just being sent off kind of thing yeah um but she loves preschool and she keeps asking to stay longer so i'm like okay it feels i mean you can never plan as a parent it feels like Everything's coming together at the right time.

44:34But yeah. No, we had exactly the same. Gigi was born in June. And then in the September, Axel went to preschool full time, like five days a week, nine till three or whatever it was then. And it was like, oh my God, I could, this plan was so good. Yeah. It feels like it's going to work well, but. With no plan. I don't think you can ever really plan anything as a parent. That's what scares me. I'm like, it all feels like it's going quite well at the moment. And it's scary to say it out loud. Yeah, so she'll go to two and a half days because that's what we'll be entitled to. But they're incredibly flexible, her preschool.

45:05The only thing that's really annoying about preschools is that they don't open during summer holidays and kids holidays. But she loves going there. So I'll deal with the holidays when they come. Just before we wrap up, is there anything that's really surprised you about being a mum? Like how you've changed or things that you've actually really liked? I became a cliche. Did you? I think I was so focused on my work before. And I still am. I really, I am focused, but in a completely different way. Like, I remember saying to everyone when I had my daughter, so it was in the November, and there was a men's international break.

45:41So it's where basically the league season pauses so that England can play. And I worked on the England games back then. And I was like, well, I'll miss that international break. But then I'll be back a few weeks later and I'll do this. And everyone was like, okay. But to their credit, no one said you can't do that. But I think I had my daughter and then straight away you become that, oh my gosh, like, your world just changes. And I don't think you get it. And I became what I saw all my friends become. And I always swore I wouldn't. And I remember saying to my mom, oh, hundreds, thousands of people have babies every day.

46:20Like, I can just get a nanny. I can just, there's loads of, we'll have a nanny for when the nursery hours don't work. We'll do this. and then I found handing my baby over really really hard my daughter only started preschool when she was two and a half you didn't want any I found it really really hard but I did have to continue to work because the industry I'm in and like my mum is like honestly an angel and she retired shortly after and she's because I work weird hours football's often in evenings weekends nursery and preschool can't help me yeah and she's enabled me to keep going as I did but I didn't realize how how your whole it's a cliche isn't it and someone listens to this isn't a parent you know whatever your whole priorities change yeah like you can't even you're needed in a way that you I think I think I put too much pressure on myself as well to do too much yeah because I didn't want to breastfeed and I was adamant I wasn't really yeah and then you did two and a oh wow that's amazing but I think I'm quite a defiant person I was like I'm gonna show that you can work I'm gonna do that I can do all of these things at once and I probably to my own detriment like we all do as parents there was a lot I yeah I just pushed myself too too far with it but not with the breastfeeding I don't regret that at all um but yeah I've just waffled around that I just when I look back on it's funny because I've thought about it a lot recently I've gone back to this point three years ago where I'm like I don't even recognize that person now wow I don't I I thought completely differently I it's maybe value my relationships more like I'm so much closer with my mom even my friends and like I know a lot of people say it but I've apologized to friends that have babies yeah I'm the same because I didn't get it and someone that was so hell-bent on their career and so hell-bent on being successful I couldn't understand how people I can say it now how to took time out to have children I didn't I was like you can do both and if like why would you but now I get it I completely get it and yeah nothing's more important than being a parent that's so that's really interesting because I do I think there are really guilty saying it no no no I think there are so many people who think like I don't mean this in this way but like you know you'll have a baby like tick and then you don't actually think of the emotional side of that all you think of is like the logistical side like right I'll have a baby how long roughly will I be to recover a month okay cool then I can outsource this this this and this and that will then life goes back to normal I'm the same person yeah I still do this this and this yeah but you don't and even if you have the time to do those other things you feel guilty for doing it like yeah I don't know it's your brain just changes like when she goes to preschool if I'm not doing something when she's at preschool still now I'm like well she should be with me yeah I know I get that like that's really bad that I'm shipping my child off the reality is she's learning like she came home and told me all about autumn the other day I was like I wouldn't have like the way they taught I was like and then I looked on the notes on her preschool app I was like that's amazing like these teachers are incredible that they're teaching her that and she's not even three so going there is actually really good for her and I'm now just about coming to the point of going it's okay I've got a massage booked on Wednesday when she's at preschool yeah like whoa but I'm like that's she's really excited to go she's really happy to go yeah and she's learning I'm getting something back and then Wednesday afternoon we'll have a lovely afternoon together yeah but I just think you're so right in terms of as we think we can outsource everything and you're just going to go back to normal.

50:00Some people do, I think. Some people can do that, and I think everyone's experience is different. I was the opposite to you. So I had a career before having kids. I had a really good job and all things like that. But my husband used to play football, actually, and so everything was always focused on him. That's the only way to describe it. The world revolved around him. It just did. And I think I'd just always known that, and so that's just the way it was. I didn't know. I didn't question it. And so then when I had my first, I genuinely thought I wouldn't go back to work, I think. Yeah, because I thought, how will I?

50:38Because we focus on him and everything he's doing. And then I quite mean, I enjoy all the home things. Like I love cooking and I love all those things. And I always did. And so I was like, oh, that's what I'll do. But then having him weirdly made me not want to rely on my husband, which is so odd. No, I get that. Because then I was like, what? I can't rely on you. Like, even though I can. But I just had this change in, like, I thought my whole year off I had. I was like, right, what am I going to do? I need to be successful on my own because something happens to him. Then it's my whole, everything changed.

51:17And now I think I'm way more ambitious than I was before. Because now I feel the responsibility. yeah I think I think the responsibility is what changes you it's huge yeah because I'm still incredibly ambitious like I'm saying there that now my daughter's my priority obviously she is but I had ambition before but now I channel it comes in a different way completely different way and I'm better with my time in terms of like when I do things and I say no to things which is so empowering when I look back I used to say yes to everything yeah because I enjoyed it and that was my sole focus whereas now I can go oh I'll go to work for that because that's I don't know financially career-wise or gonna fulfill me in another way I still need my work but what I need from my work is completely different yes like it gives me something completely different and she's given me something completely different yeah that I didn't know I needed and they both feed into each other yeah no no no I and that's what that's what I like I've said it to a few of my friends since that have kind of had children or found out they're pregnant or wanted to have children don't and people said it to me and you you can't you can't plan for anything when you've got a child like logistically in any way but you cannot plan how you'll feel no you don't know you don't know how to go with it and so the best laid plans because maybe it won't change you but I genuinely believe it changes everyone to some degree in some way yeah to some degree it's just to which degree and I would like to think that like my colleagues listening to this would still be like because even with with this child I'm working right up until it and I've said there's certain things that it will depend on the birth and everything I've also realized this I was so scared of having a c-section last time right but that was mainly because of work if I'm honest because I was like I don't want to be not able to drive for six weeks because I really thought I was still going to be able to work it's wild whereas this time I still don't quite know what's going to happen with my birth um but I'm a bit more laid back about it because I'm like whatever will happen will happen and I will deal with what happens after that also goes back to me having really understanding colleagues and family and people around me to help and I know not everyone has that but I just don't think you know what parenthood is going to do to you no don't try and predict it I actually also think it's a biological thing I think your brain changes and you don't like the hormones and everything changes and I don't think you even know you're changing it's only like when you come out of it a couple of years later that you look back and go oh my gosh and it's recently where I've really reflected on it more because I'm going through it all again yeah and I think I'm I wonder if I'll change again yeah yes yeah yeah I don't know I just I look at like my friendship group from like being at school and I do that a lot yeah and we're like you know it's really funny how we there's only one of one who isn't isn't a parent yet um and although she's got a dog and so we're all like oh my god she's gonna be an absolute nightmare when she has kids because now we've seen how she is with the dog but she might I mean she might not be but it is funny how all of our characters have changed massively um but we've always you know with your schoolmates you still have yeah you've got common grounds yeah but there's like one person who still wants to go to Vegas and like do all of this and like we're like you've got the wrong group of friends now it's just it's just I don't know everyone talks so much about being a parent changing you but I think it's just everyone changes to a point and I think you just go with it and I think it can feel quite scary beforehand but I just think your body takes over your body knows and your brain knows how to ensure you cope postpartum eventually I think I love that and how life will change I don't think it will change as much this time but who knows well yeah you don't know just before we wrap up we always like to ask our guests what the best piece of advice that they've been given or that they would give some you know like if your friend was having a baby what would you say don't and I apply this in every aspect of life don't be afraid to make mistakes because we all make mistakes no one is a perfect parent yeah and you learn from every mistake you make in parenthood very fast yeah obviously I'm not saying like mistakes in terms of like leaving the baby in the bath or like something yeah yeah like the little things like sometimes yeah you will I don't know given the bottle at slightly the wrong time get your nap schedule slightly wrong yeah ruin your whole day yeah but every day is a new day and you learn from every mistake you make I don't know anyone that doesn't make mistakes as a parent of course and I think that's all kind of part of the life like no one is a perfect parent and the other thing probably even more important is I've spoken to a lot of people like mum guilt recently mum guilt is I don't think this will make anyone feel better everyone has mum guilt and it's really healthy in terms of it means you're a good parent yeah because if you don't care I've tried to reframe yeah I agree with you actually because you know what yeah it means you really care and it means you're desperate to make the right decision and it goes it goes back to don't make mistakes I had this so much because of being freelance and I know you've had lots of people on this show say similar like it's very different you you don't I I don't get yeah you don't get to work so I can't have the full year off and I that does mean that particularly in that first year I felt terrible every time and I used to write down the pros and cons of everything I still do to a point do you and you just have to I write it down that makes me feel better and you just have to go in the end okay the pros slightly outweigh that or I always try and feel think how I feel after the job or being away but actually the fact that I am I've tried to reframe it in my brain the fact that I think so intently and I worry so much is a good sign it means I'm a good mom so when you get mom guilt try and reframe it because I don't think it's a bad thing but that that said it's still a horrible feeling no of course it is and I think it evolves as well as you get old you know as the kids get older and everything like right now I have like I was way more chill when the kids were younger than I am now oh does that mean I'm gonna get less no no no because you might be the other way around you know what I mean like I'm I feel guilty about things that I didn't expect to feel guilty about.

57:26Like, it's just really, it's an odd, it's really, yeah. I just think as a parent, we just worry too much. Yeah, we do. But worrying is normal, and that's what I mean, like the two bits I've said there about. And it's good, because if you didn't. Your kids would just be on the street feral. Yeah, having the thought and the worry is, yeah, you're right. I really try, because I'm a worrier, I'm an anxious person, that's my disposition. But I've really tried to every time I have a worry. and it sometimes takes me a day or so don't get me wrong I still get lost in the fog and the heavy thinking and the overthinking and it's sometimes I now don't make a decision quickly and I'll say to my agent sometimes just give me give me let me talk to my partner about this because he's much more black and white than me give me a day or so let me talk it through with him let me my brain process it and then I will decide on things and I think that's the same with like mistakes as well it goes back they all link in in terms of mum guilt we all feel guilty but ultimately I think it's good.

58:19I love that. Thank you so much. Thank you. Sorry, I've waffled a lot. That's amazing. Thank you.

58:48This is a production of the Red Cross.

59:20That sound could mean a lot of things. And when something's going wrong at home, the hardest part can be figuring out what the problem actually is. At Thumbtack, you can upload a voice message or a photo, and our AI-powered search will help diagnose your project. Plus, the pros we know have over 14 million five-star reviews, so you can hire with confidence. Thumbtack. We know homes. Hire the right pro today. Hello, I'm Giovanna Fletcher. And I'm Marco Borcella. And this is Boots Off. We are friends who have spent a decade together, walking up mountains, across deserts and along coastlines with some seriously awesome groups of humans.

1:00:03And something happens when you're out there, feet on the ground, surrounded by nature. The conversations just spill out of you. This series is about the adversities that lead to adventure. The adventures that lead to adversity. And how life can be one big adventure in itself. Listen every Thursday. Just search for Boots Off.