Don't Wake Up to Make Rich People Richer

0:00I think we sometimes think that if you win, then I've lost. Like a zero-sum game. Yeah, you're in the business of being you. Just make that the best business possible. What does it take to make it? Timothy Armoo was 27 when he sold his company Fanbytes for tens of millions of pounds. He's written a book, and today he's going to take you through some really practical steps to make a difference in your life. Set your expectations low. Really? Yeah. Use the money and use your effort to end up designing a dope life rather than just having the money for the money. As you guys were talking, I was thinking of a story and I was thinking, am I going to say this story or not?

0:38So I'm going to say it. I want to start by saying thank you because I said this to you in private, but I want to say it online because I think this is like a key reason why I think you're a winner in life. is we've interviewed maybe 120 people, which means I've typically been sent around 100 to 110 books. You're the first person that ever sent me a handwritten note and a present along with the book. And I'm talking like Nobel Prize winners, Deborah Meaden. We've had all kinds of people. And you stand out amongst a crowd of world-class people just for that reason. It's such a low effort thing in a way, just to write the handwritten note.

1:17instantly the most memorable book I've ever received. Oh, well, there you go. I haven't received a handwritten note. This is my book. I got it in the post. I was like, oh, maybe you wrote me a letter inside. I'm like, no, not this page. So what's going on, Tim? And also, what's stopping you? Page 400. But what's stopping you? Page what? Page 400. It's a shout out to T. Yeah, yeah. I dedicate this entire book and my entire life to T. All right. I'd appreciate that. However, what is stopping you from following me on Instagram? That's what I want to know. That's what I want to know. That's a pertinent question for this book.

1:55That's a bar. All right, you know what? By the time this comes out, I follow you on Instagram. My brother. Appreciate it. There you go. Appreciate it. There you go. It means it's a couple months without following you still. You buy some time. Yeah. The first time you came on, you were actually the eighth episode that we did. So brand new. We were a brand new podcast. and you were brand new to kind of being who you are in the modern form. I think you'd exited - Modern form. Yeah, your final state. You'd exited 12 months before. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, yeah. How has things been in the last three years it's been, you know?

2:29Yeah, man, things have been an absolute whirlwind. Everything that I thought would happen didn't happen, and everything that I thought didn't happen, happened. So, for example, I thought right afterwards, I would then go build more companies straight away and that didn't happen um I didn't think I'd write a book uh that happened and it's happened to the extent where last Saturday we announced that it was like an instant number one Sunday Times bestseller and I was just like what the heck is going on I did not realize like the community and audience and almost the love that people had for what we talk about on social i didn't imagine i'd start a pe fund where we buy companies like there's all of these things where i was just like wow the thing that i thought would happen which was let's go again instantly it didn't happen straight away yeah i i had i've not seen fanfare around a short form creator like you had with the book i remember when you were doing the pre-orders and they were just flying that was that was a really cool moment to see but I think um it's a good book it's justified I'm not just saying that I really listened to the whole thing Tomei was salty about you not following him I wanted to see it and then I read like the first chapter and I was like this is an amazing book like not because it's like easy to read I listened to the audio book which you read pretty well yeah um but it's also like it's got really practical tips and yeah really really practical tips so yeah but yeah we tried to make it mad practical like the question that i asked myself was always if the 21 year old version of me who was like growing up in that south under council say picked up this book would he go oh that was really motivational or would he go now i know the stuff to do now i know how to think about my next business now i know how to think about how to network now i know how to uh find investors come up with an idea which i think is a big one for me i spent my whole 20s thinking how do i invent and the next facebook yeah whereas what i should have done is gone how do i invent the uk version of facebook yeah the uk version right you know perfect was it like chico number was a four or five it says originality is overrated because i'm like bro i have not come up with any original idea in my life i just see it's work there all right we're gonna do it here and um it's served me well so there's all these things that i basically wanted people to practically take away whilst also almost having that mental push to say, hey, what is stopping you from doing all of these things?

4:58You said though there a minute ago that everything you thought would happen didn't. Yeah. Yeah, but I think the overarching theme of the book is, or one of them is, the narratives we tell ourselves to kind of shape our lives. Yeah. The voices in our head, yeah. But you just said that everything you thought would happen didn't come true. Yeah. So what's going on? Well, the story I told myself changed. so before we sold fan bites right i had this this just desire to just be like this hard-charging entrepreneur you grow a business sell this business grow a business sell this business right and for a long time after the acquisition probably about three to six months i was just almost in a state of well i know so many people who have built companies and sold and then they go again and they go again but the truth is um and to be very vulnerable with you guys like the same thing that was driving me during fanbites was not the same thing that then drove me afterwards and yes of course a big part of it was like financially i was no longer driven by money but the other thing was that like i i didn't have an enemy right so during fanbites and doing business up until that point.

6:12Like I had an enemy, which was, I do not want to be that poor kid in South London. And like that to me was anything I can do to get away from that. And so I think it's Tony Robbins who talks about this, which is that you either, we are all either pushed away from something or pulled towards something. And for the entirety of my business journey up until 27, up until the exit, I was just like pushed away from this feeling of like being desperate, being poor, not having money, not having options. And now I had to define what was pulling me. And I hadn't done that before the exit. I hadn't done that 12 months in.

6:52I hadn't even done that 18 months in. And then I had to go on this like entire journey of, all right, what is the next thing? What is the source of drive? What is the source of motivation? And it can't come from a push feeling. It has to come from a pull feeling. Probably actually a lot of your audience would probably empathize with this right like it doesn't have to be selling a business it could be they've they've done very well in their career and now suddenly the extra grand or two they make a month even 10 grand a month is like oh okay now what and the advice i'd give here is then to change the source of your motivation which is maybe you've been pushed from anger from a deep desire to prove yourself and it's completely fine to say yeah this doesn't motivate me anymore i now need to find a new source and maybe it's not as harsh it's not as angry and that's also completely fine yeah it's that kind of transition from like a desire to change your life to maybe like a legacy point or something or the impact that you want to have i think about that it's like i i was just scared of being poor yeah i'm not going to be poor anymore yeah what what is why do i get up every day to do what I do.

8:08And then it's like, well, actually, like I enjoy helping people. You know, it shifts, right? But also it can be selfish, right? I think sometimes we go, you start off doing it for the money and then it's about like changing the world. And often it's like, well, no, not really. I don't think a lot of us are like, we really want to impact the world at large. It can be, for example, for me, I was like, I really love building cool stuff with very smart people, with a small group of very smart people. And the way that we measure the results are through the people impacted, but also the money that we make.

8:46That was very different to beforehand, which was like, I just want to make a fuck ton of money. And I don't really care who the people I do it with, whether I like them or not, whether they're smarter than me or not, whether they're idiots, I don't care. I just want to get the back, right? So my new thing is still relatively selfish. It's not about like changing the world, but it's about what are the conditions for me to be really happy and fulfilled. And then I'm like designing my life around that rather than it just being, well, whatever it takes, I'm just going to do it. So where does the book come in if it's not to try and help people?

9:20Because I mean, the book helped me and I'm pretty sure it helps everyone. So this is definitely like giving people guidance and helping them change their lives. So what was the motivation behind the book? So the book was actually a very interesting story because I didn't want to write a book. because my whole thought was i could post something on my socials and it could be seen by millions of people but if i write a book the odds are it's not instantly going to be seen by millions of people because you know a lot of people write books and so my whole thought was well for the 21 year old kid growing up in that south diney council estate who wanted to do big things and always had these ideas of like i know i can but i just need to figure out the map if i gave them this book will they go yeah i've got it like now i've got it and i've got it from someone who looks like me sounds like me talks like me you know as you send a book like i'm quoting jay-z i'm quoting drake and then in the next verse or sorry the next verse in the next like page i'm like oh yeah and here's how you stack your cap table for investors so you're like okay in one thing you see a guy talking about this and that and it's relatable and something that you get and so that was really the source and the drive for the book itself um one of the exercises in the book that i wanted to do or just like to bring to life a bit so i thought it was really interesting was kind of the board of directors thing i thought this was really a really nice way of thinking about it and i think the audience at home could start thinking about theirs i've been racking my brain on who i'd have on mine but you basically ring fenced all the good ones when you were saying oh yeah yeah yeah arnie can you explain what this is and who's on yours yeah so the board of directors is a concept i came up with about 12 months ago which is you know in any company which gets to some sort of scale they have a board of directors and that is a few people with good judgment good decision making where you basically um go to them and say i'm thinking about doing this deal i'm thinking about doing this thing blah blah what do you thing given your experience and given your knowledge set so my thought was why do it just as a company why not you have your own personal board of directors which is in every single facet of your life pick someone who would basically be on your board and say what would that person do and so for me i picked um i picked three different sections i picked in fitness and then I picked in business and then I picked in almost like mental decision making right so my fitness was Arnold right because to me the most transformational thing I've ever done for my fitness was read this book which was called the education of a bodybuilder it was written by Arnold it was like his OG book before um uh total recall and just the way he thought about body build i was like oh this is this is sick and also he has this you know let's fucking go energy right and i love that um then the second one on business i think i said sam ovens you had sam ovens yeah charlie munger who might be like yeah he's like mentality more yeah but some of them's because he got you into kind of that exactly like he got me into into internet marketing i mean he's the guy behind school for people listening yeah that's his modern iteration but he's been successful online for a little while.

12:44He's like the OG of like Russell Brunson and all of those guys. And, you know, Sam's way of thinking about business and thinking about leverage and thinking about constraints was so powerful to me. So each time that I have to make a decision around business, even now I still use it. Like, for example, there's a company that I got involved in and I was like okay this is a great business but the ceo is not great how do we enable the ceo to be in his zone of genius and then we allow the company to do his thing that was a framework that i took from sam ovens when i came to understand that um people are always the constraint in any business and then the third one about mindset was charlie munger because i absolutely love you know every single thing that that guy said i just thought wow it was so profound and i particularly um took his thing around inverting which is this whole idea of like you know um if i didn't if i wanted to get the opposite of the thing that i want what would i do right so what are all the things all the things i shouldn't do or how do i explain invert basically always invert if i want the opposite of the things that i actually want what would i do so it's like right i want a great body what i would not do is i would maybe go to the gym only once a week i will eat a bunch of trash food i'll do all these things and then it's like well just do the opposite of that so that's what i mean by the board directors i think everyone should have one um and even now what's even better is in the age of ai what you can just do is just upload all their books and their frameworks and their youtube videos and then be like hey you are now my board of directors i'm thinking about this particular decision how would they do it and then just do what they say yeah removes it kind of like takes the decision making process off you a bit yeah into their your version of themselves yeah the inversion thing with charlie munger he did that in world war ii because i he was a meteorologist in the war yeah and he was basically scared of killing the pilots yeah so he said hey if i want to kill all the pilots what would i do and he's like i would launch them into bad weather uh when the air pressure was low or whatever and he realized because what he was basically being us to do was clear pilots for takeoff and he didn't want to kill his mates so yeah and he then carried that into the business world with warren yeah he was a true true uh you talking about rapping he he was nothing but bars basically yeah he was just spit out like yeah yeah yeah yeah so good yeah you got your i got three um slightly different type of people but some of mine overarched so for fitness or health um i would have kobe bryant oh yeah but also for business because he could be everything he's got the member mentality just keep working work harder than everyone else work late at night like uh today i tried it i was like before the podcast i'm gonna wake up at 5am and go train i woke up and i was like it's cold i'm not gonna go work out now because i work out i do calisthenics outdoors i'm not going outside at 5am but kobe would have gone outside at 5am worked out and then come and done the podcast so i try and do some of that um just the determination and mentality 50 cent for business oh because obviously as a teenager So we grew up on 50 Cent.

16:01I love like his music. And then he went from there to like the deal with Vitamin Water, made millions from that. From there went to movies. From there went to TV shows, won awards for TV. So he's stepped into lots of different industries. And I'm someone who's worked in lots of different industries. And who does, juggles a few jobs at the same time. So he's always working on this. He's like, what am I working on next? What am I working on at the same time in Tangent? And then finally for, what was it like? What was the third one? Yeah, mentality, like mindset. Deborah Meaden. Interesting. Yeah, I'm talking about you and you're going to guess any of these.

16:34Because she came on the podcast and she said like she, when she's at home, she doesn't have a laptop. She doesn't have a phone. She leaves her work phone and she just like spends family time at home and she locks in. So because I work from home, I'm like, my son's here. She has one of the best marriages I've ever seen as well in terms of like, her husband has fully committed to her career. And she's like, when I'm in the house with him, he's all that matters. I commit to him. You know, like no work ever gets discussed. there's like there's real strength in their relationship and him dealing like a counter intuitive relationship in the sense of obviously the woman is the dominant force and that and he's yeah i think they've really figured that out really happy marriage work-life balance and then i'm not working from home so i'm like my son's here i needed to get my work done like 50 so i've got to work hard but i've got to separate and spend time with my son so yeah those three i would put yeah that's something i wish i wish more people do what's yours i don't know i'm going to think about it long and hard because i think before you put someone on the board you should probably weigh them up but since that i was thinking i need to think of who these people are some people that i'm really inspired by at the minute is you know the the uh the google deep mind founder demis yeah yeah you've seen the documentaries i just think in a world of uh bs around ai this guy seems to cut through and make me feel really positive about the future i want someone that is an optimist about change yeah um maybe naval rabicant's book you know for his wisdom yeah yeah for his wisdom and then fitness yeah i don't know i i don't want to answer yeah i need to kind of think on it yeah because i think it's an important who's going to be on your board is a big choice yeah like i said i would have gone on all done stuff like this because he's just uh he smashed everything he's ever done right arnold's watch oh yeah but i can't be stealing yours he's already on your board and he probably hasn't got the time you know who is a good person actually and i think i mentioned a book or i may not have it's a guy called jesse itzler um he founded a bunch of companies is he the netjet guy yes yeah so he founded netjet big ass year i was literally talking about his calendar and his wife is sarah blake who founded spanks so they're like a power couple but he's just a guy who wants to live a dope life, you know?

18:43And I think at the end of the day, you know, I know this is making money podcast, et cetera, but like the money is a means to live a dope life. And for me, I have like really optimized on just living a dope life. And sometimes that means that you spend more than you would. I mean, a very concrete example of this is actually building out my team, especially for my content. for a while a lot of them were virtual or i'd use people in in the philippines etc and that's so cool but then i realized that the thing that matters a lot to me is community and remember i said working with a small group of highly intellectual people who i'm like let's fucking go so i thought well to do that that would cost me more because i'm talking about hiring people in the uk versus in the philippines but like that marginal difference whether it's five ten grand to me it's like a million because i'm like i love this i'm so enthused by this whereas beforehand i was very much uh oh well do we have enough revenue in this to support it and now having done that my life is like significantly more dope so i think one of the most important things like use the money and use your effort to end up designing a dope life rather than just having the money for the money so one thing that i've become obsessed with is kind of slowing down my life through removing repetition because as a youtuber the tendency is just to sit in script and it all just like is blast squashed into one so looking at that the big ass year or the big ass calendar he's got that idea of the misogy or whatever yeah yeah you do that really challenging thing each year just to what's yours well again i need i need to i need to think i think i want to do ones within within the business yeah so i think for the podcast we might do a live event this year dope yeah like in person yeah and then for like myself maybe like base camp or the arctic circle or some or my uncle used to run triathlons for the uk army maybe i need to pick up that baton um so i think like a personal pardon am i single i might be after i do all this no no i'm not single no no no so like um something like physically challenging in my personal life and then something within the business i think misogues for businesses is a good thing yeah it's like otherwise we kind of get stuck in the motions of also something emotionally demanded yeah like let's say you and your partner went to a place for a week and had no phone no just you just picked a place all right we are now going to finland we don't have any phones we don't have anything and we're just going to explore that could be the thing that it's not physically demanding but like mentally it could be a bit tasking on your brain so you could do therapy like couples therapy or something yeah but that's not hard that's not hard you reckon it's not hard you've got good relationships my dad did a silent retreat following on yeah he does it every year and he just goes no phone no talking and then they'd like meditate for how long like four or five days yeah and like no talk and then he said when you come out and the first conversation is so intense because you haven't opened your mouth to speak for four days that's difficult yeah that's difficult especially you shatterbox damien talks damien talks damien doesn't talk about anything.

22:10David talks a lot. No, I think it's more about like flags in the ground of your life, isn't it? It's like, oh, in 2026, I did that. And I really liked that kind of year defining moment. Tomein, I know you've been setting up your business recently. So how's that been going? Pretty cool. T Unlimited is out and about. One thing I have found, I was looking for a bank account and a lot of the big players in the game, they don't, they're not covered by the financial services compensation scheme. So a little bit worrying because I wanted my money to be safe. So I think I'm going to go with Tide because they cover up to£120 ,000.

22:45It's a little bit worrying to me that you think you're ever going to have

22:47Timothy Armoo:£120 ,000 in your business account, bro. I use Tide's Instant Saver account because I can earn interest on the money in my business account that I don't need day to day. With the Tide Instant Saver account, you can get up to 4 % AER variable. Plus you'll get£100 cash back if you deposit£5 ,000 into your account in the first 30 days. If you want to try it out, you can use the code MAKINGMONEY, or one word, or just use the QR code that's on screen. We've also left a link in the description where you can find the terms as well. Variable rate is correct as of the 15th of January, 2026. So T, tell me the riskiest thing you've ever done.

23:24Mate, the cameras are rolling. I can't do that. You're trying to get me cancelled. I mean, most of my risky things were probably in my teenage years. But one thing I could say about finance risks. Definitely invested in stocks with zero research just because my friend told me to. His research was, trust me, it didn't go well. Wow. So clearly risk affects you in both your personal and business life. And that's why we're really happy today to be partnering with Vanta. They automate a lot of risk processes and help you see the risks in a centralized platform so you know what really needs your attention.

23:54Besides risk, the main thing Vanta does is automate compliance with security protocols that you need if you want to do business with larger companies or grow internationally. This is stuff like GDPR, HIPAA, ISO 27001 and SOC2. The beauty of Vanta is they make it easy to prove you're compliant with these standards, saving up to 90 % of the time it takes and on average half a million dollars. You can get started at vanta.com forward slash making money. There's a link in the description. You're my story as you swam, you learnt to swim. Last time we were here. Last year. Last time you were here, you were telling us you were going to learn to swim.

24:29And I did. You can now, right? How many laps? Laps and laps and laps. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I even talked about that in the book, right? About learning to swim and how the biggest thing for me, learning to swim, was actually the weird... The biggest thing for me, learning to swim, was actually the embarrassment that came when I saw six, seven-year-olds around me who were just gliding through water. and I was struggling to breathe in it. And I literally was like, dude, come on. You are a 30 year old and you can't do this. And I remember thinking to myself, well, that is not the voice that you need.

25:11The voice that you need is, hey, this is a skill. These guys just happen to have learned the skill earlier than you, therefore learn the skill. I actually had the same thing. This podcast has taken a wild turn. It's meant to be talking about making money. We rarely do today. I actually had the same thing when I did my driving test. So I failed my driving test twice. And I remember the second time I failed it, I remember just being in the car and thinking like, Tim, what's wrong with you? Like, just like really being angry. Like, what's wrong with you, dude? And weirdly enough, the thing I did was I started to say to myself all my accomplishments.

25:48I see if like by me being a successful entrepreneur means I'm more likely to learn how to drive. It's like, it doesn't make sense. and so then i went home and i remember just saying to myself this is a skill and i remember walking back and seeing people drive their cars and thinking well at some point these guys didn't know how to drive and it's a skill so therefore i just need to learn the skill of driving and then literally in two weeks i got a another driving lesson passed easy and it was just because of two things one was like the voice i was telling myself was no longer this really harsh negative voice and then the second thing was i didn't see it as a representation of me i saw it as well there is something to be learned here there is something to be done here and therefore i'm going to like apply and learn the thing and then the outcome will come it's a doubt the doubt which is part of the doubt itself yeah it's that kind of and that's i think that's powerful because i i can carry a lot of doubt so one thing for me might be that i might make a mistake in a video which if you do something multiple times you're going to make a mistake and i will instantly go to oh my God no one will ever watch my content again it's over I'm done gonna have to sack everybody like what have I done but then actually the escalation yeah you go actually I've made mistakes before it's never like all you do is you pin a comment you go that's an error or you cut it out you know what I mean and what's um at this point you know the chapter I'm gonna point out I was gonna say it's not that deep yeah it could also be number eight is not that deep but I've been hearing you I've been saying this on Instagram for like ages.

27:19And I'm like, I've been like, my life is like, that's how I move. I'm like, yeah, it's not that deep. But your book clarified for me that I've been using it the wrong way. Cause I'm like, oh, I'm gonna be 10 minutes late. It's not that deep. Like it's not the end of the world. We're still gonna make the episode. It's all gonna be fine. But like, I really liked how you dug into it. Like you can't use this as an excuse. You use it for times when it's like, you said you lost an employee, they were gonna quit. And you thought it was gonna be the end of your company. And you think about all these consequences that will happen that are all in your mind.

27:45When you catastrophize. Yeah. Yeah. Rather than, it's not like an excuse to go, oh, I've just lost all my money on an investment. It's not that deep off we go. It doesn't. But even that. So as you guys were talking, I was thinking of a story and I was thinking, am I going to say this story or not? So I'm going to say it. Right. Two years ago, I lost 550 grand because a friend of mine or someone I knew frauded me. Oh. and i remember how the whole thing came about and i remember just thinking to myself first again was anger i was like literally i thought about hiring hitmen like i was on whatsapp talking to people and saying yo gotta sort this out you know gotta sort this out boys um and then i said to myself which was like okay that is a lot of money but also i'm in control of like what would happen next i'm in control of the amount of money i make in the next two years three years five years etc and so i literally sat down i said all right well what would need to be true well i obviously would need to talk with him and i know he didn't do it intentionally that's the thing it was kind of like one of those things where i lent him something he was meant to then like return it but then he used that to pay another person and he just went over his head so i went do you objectively think that he meant it to harm you no okay that being the case now see if you can work together to recover the money let's assume now that you didn't see any of that money what would happen well okay now you just need to you know you now are 550 grand down Cool.

29:33That's okay. Do you think in the next five years you will make back that 550 grand? Yes. Okay. Then just get on with that plan. And I also spoke to a friend who basically, you know, had also been frauded, not by the same guy, but by, you know, in time, what happens is when you start, you know, investing or loaning out money or something like that, something would happen. And so I think when he then normalized that and I went, okay, cool. i'm glad i learned this now rather than when it was like five million so cool and again that was a perfect example of like it's not that deep because like yeah i could have gone into this deep you know sadness and everything else and i went all right well let's look at it very objectively this too shall pass let's get on with it and yeah it's not that deep how do you know what to like not trivial trivialize how do you know when something is deep in a sense so there's this thing i have in the book which is this chart which is like um will this matter in 48 hours right now i've actually changed that now because i actually think it's more like will this matter in 30 days and for me i found that especially stuff around like family i found that there are certain things which are deep and there's certain things which are not deep like for example you You know, I love my mother.

30:54She's amazing, incredible woman. For a very long time, she and I would have arguments and like that would generally make my week just down. And now when, say, I can see an argument brewing, literally I will text and say something like, thanks, mom. Love you very much. And she'll send me voice notes on voice notes and I would not listen to them. I just say, you know, thanks, mom. Great. Done. Because I know that if we had an argument now, that thing could, you know, that thing could bring it down on my week. It could bring it down on my month. And, you know, when you have an argument and you're in an angry state, then you want to reply to that person.

31:39And then what happens is like the argument just keeps going and going. So something that really could have been two days, ends up being two weeks, ends up being two months. And so in that particular case, I just, I'm like, okay, it's not that deep because do i want this to impact me for the next week or the next 30 days um in some other cases unfortunately especially when it comes to like family um like bereavements that sort of thing or even when it's like someone who's been your friend for a very long time and you realize okay this is not quite gonna work um in those it is that deep and i take a lot of time in saying all right guys let's figure out how to make this um a amicable um difference but generally the phrase is not that deep and actually this is going to be a good thing for your audience which is don't just say it's not that don't just think it's not that deep like say it's not that deep so when things happen like audibly say it's not that deep and a weird thing happens where your brain almost like hears you say it and goes oh okay it's not that deep now and everything changes you just become this calmer person more objective person and it's really powerful yeah i want to touch on the point with your mother there because i think like one thing that your book does well is like it shows that you're not some kind of superhuman person and a lot of people you looked up to as well and i think the story with your mom is like in a is a good way of highlighting that because your mom was that is bipolar is that correct yeah yeah and i remember one of the best pieces of content i think you put out in the last year was when you came out and you basically said i sort of ignored it yeah for years uh and just thought i could throw myself into my company and things and how have you faced into that what has that been like for you you know my mom is my mom is an amazing amazing woman i mean some of the stories as i've gone know that i've come to appreciate you know i lived in ghana for 10 years she would and she lived in london And she would go to Heathrow Airport and just find anyone who was traveling to Ghana, pay them 20 pounds and give them a box of books and just say, when you get to Ghana, just call this number and someone will come and pick up the books so you can give them to my son.

33:56she will call me every Sunday and we'll do book reports where she would pay me 61 pounds to read a book and give her a summary of it now the most amazing thing is as I got older I came to realize the entire time she was on benefits so that was money coming from her benefits money where she said I am going to make sure my son is a winner and what is actually a very recent story is I gave her the book and she was like, you know, thank you for the book, et cetera. And then she was just like, yeah, so when this becomes a Sunday Times bestseller, like she just automatically just assumes, yeah, this is just going to hit.

34:37So in terms of being my champion, in terms of being the person who I know, like almost, she thinks higher of me than I think of myself. And that is just And that is just an invaluable thing to have. So how have I navigated it? For a long time, I saw it as she is doing or saying certain things to antagonize me. And I've just come to appreciate that, like just her lens of the world, because of how she's grown up, is just different. so it's like talking to someone who just i don't know speaks a slightly different language they see the world in a different way i see the world in a different way and that's been the conclusion i've come to so rather than sometimes like trying to convince her about something the way i see the world i just go oh so you see like this i see like this okay cool as long as we have the foundation of loving each other and caring about each other that's all good and that has been a massive transition because i just used to be like why do you keep doing these things or why do i keep reacting to you in this way surely we can have like a harmonious thing and now we have a great thing because i see it very objectively for what it is rather than being too emotional about it i'm interested to know what stories you're telling yourself now then but especially knowing that like the stories that you told yourself when you first came on were wrong and they had to change you know Where are you at at the minute?

36:14You've also just done the book. And I know that probably for the last 12 months, you've probably been really focused in on getting the success with the book. You've got that into orbit now. They're one bestseller. They kind of then tend to go from there, don't they? They snowball a bit. It'll be in airports on the shelves. It's got the momentum. You must have fresh snow in front of you and be like, what the hell am I going to do? Where am I stepping? So I still haven't quite figured that out. I just know the conditions of what I want to do. And now I've just designed my life to do that, right?

36:53I know the type of people I want to be around. I know the type of work I want to do. And I know that it still involves like building companies. And that's kind of it. Um, one of the things we've actually done when we're about to launch is we're launching this program, which is all around helping founders sell their businesses. And that for me ticks all the boxes of fulfillment is I'm working with great founders, sharp founders, those who can be better than me. And then we're helping them achieve an outcome, which is the same outcome that I've been through a few times i'm like oh this is so fulfilling it's great people great outcome great results great environment but the way i came to that was candidly i was just like what makes me happy what do i enjoy and then just do it do you think that's a luxury that you can afford now you've got money yeah do you think people can ask themselves those questions before and and actually like putting that that into place

38:01so i think that my life would have been happier if i'd asked myself this question early on in my journey because the truth is man you know fan bites went from myself to 80 people eight figures of revenue multi-figure exit raised two million from investors i didn't really enjoy it I didn't really enjoy fanbites because I was so driven by negative energy, so driven. I wasn't a nice person during fanbites because I just thought, whatever it takes. You're in some ruthless mode. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that I could have enjoyed myself more and been happier if I said, well, actually, yes, I enjoy building a business, but I also enjoy the people that I do it with.

38:54and I also enjoy the clients that we work with. I also enjoy speaking on stages and talking to people about influencer marketing and then coming in. But every single one I did, it just sucked. I just thought, well, I guess I got to do it so I can, you know, get the deal in. And really all it required was just a change in perspective. And I really wish more people did that. Wherever you are in your career, Can you slightly amend your perspective to say, what are the conditions for this to be amazing? And then you then enable your experiences to match those conditions. Yeah. That I get to do this, not I have to.

39:37Yeah. I get to do this. That's massive for me, right? Because I can get stressed in the, they're just a hamster wheel of content and you think it's all stressful, but actually I'm like, this is my dream job. I'm living the real version of what I set out to do. This is actually a thing. and you know my team are here and one of the things they've probably heard me say a lot like sometimes i'll just be like what a privilege like i just randomly shout like what a privilege what a privilege like the best uncle you know when you're 60 just shout out around the verge sometimes i'm like like i said before today i have slept for some reason i had bad sleep right so i've slept like five hours and i looked at my calendar and i was like oh and then i went hang on what a privilege what a privilege that someone will ask me on the podcast after this i'm doing as i mentioned it's like cnbc thing i'm like what's a privilege like what a privilege to be able to do this right and then mental like it's all mental then i'll go to the gym i'll be like what's a privilege that i am able to like lift a weight yeah like that is insane to me right so again just almost at random points just like saying what a privilege it is your brain just suddenly goes like you are right why the heck am i seeing this as something to be endured my mom shout out to my mom again anytime i did an exam she would say exams are there to be enjoyed not to be endured and i remember every time she say that i'd i'd say to myself before i went into the exam and i'd look at the questions and be like time to show off you know rather than oh man i've got to do this i'm like time to show up let me in fact ask me some more questions you know right yeah just because of that change in the framing and perspective i used yeah i used to dread podcasting and like the night before terrible sleep stress anxiety and now i'm like i get to go on a podcast with one of my best friends and just learn and talk to some of the coolest people in the world bro what am i stressing about this is awesome this is like a dream job what a cool job kobe bryant says the same thing he's like the dream isn't just like making it to the nba or making loads of money.

41:41It's the late nights working in the gym. Like the journey is part of the dream and you should enjoy the journey, not just be like thinking about the end result. But I have a question for you. Hit me. You said you have an, in the book, you said you have an auto, you had an auto ego, really good story about before you were, you had a stutter, which you couldn't tell with the amount of public speaking you do. But you said you were starting out, you're working in a company and then at nine, 10 o 'clock at night, you would go down and practice your pitch and you could see yourself as a great public speaker.

42:10So you made an alter ego from Timothy to Tim. Yeah. And Tim is like a great, like to Eminem. Timmo, yeah. Timmo, yeah. The real Slim Shady is Timmo. Do you still have an alter ego? And yeah, do you still use it? And do you look at your future self still and bring like, who do I want to be in the future and bring that back to today, which is what you said you did before? Now my ego, now my alter ego is Timmo. In fact, you know, I'm actually going to tell a story that happened just before we started this podcast. so i was in the car with a member from my team tochi and i was like man i feel very like tired i feel blah blah right and then i said but what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna bring big energy big energy so you notice the moment that you open the door i say whoa right because like in that moment i said all right new alter ego big energy guy right um so now my alter egos are almost like very circumstantial they're like all right i'm gonna do this talk all right who do i want to become big energy man you know and now for my talks later on today i'm doing a talk at virgin and it's got like 250 people there like people who want to build their business etc i am going to get all of them to stand up and shout and jump up and down before i go because to me i'm like big energy and what does big energy mean it means that you really bring the fire but an hour afterwards I might just be like, oh, cool.

43:32That's great. I'm going to be on my phone, right? So I think the alter ego is not almost like a permanent alter ego. It is a circumstantial one to decide who do I want to be at this point? And then like constantly reinventing yourself for certain moments. We do that anyway, don't we? Like with our friends, there's certain friends where you're like a different version of yourself. I don't think there's like one person that you are. I'm a completely different Damien with my son than I am with anyone else. I'm my partner. no one wants when you're so you're part of watching Netflix you don't want the boys to see that version of you do you know what I mean but I think we do that it's like different faces for different people but they're all still versions of you but yeah dainty Damien dainty Damien is where he's begging for head strokes I like it when he just pull my ear you know dainty Damien with with bae yeah yeah just in his oodie with his little slippers on yeah the blankie little onesie yeah actually that's interesting right you have dainty demon and then when it comes to business like directing yeah you know yeah yeah yeah and and like you know the energy the energy point that you had in here sometimes i can be so kind of focused on the interview that people can walk into here and i can probably seem unwelcoming in the sense of i'm like i want to do this this this and they're sat there and they're a bit like who the fuck is this guy like why so now i do the warm-ups with people because it's just a silly thing the shoulders we did the one with like a face movements with the Will Guy.

44:58And people after that are just like, oh, this is chill. We've all been idiots together. So yeah, I think it's really important that you kind of, when you're walking into rooms with people, you ask like, what version of me am I going to be as I enter this room? And the impression that I give, the first impressions. I mean, you speak about first impressions in the book. Man, this can apply in anything. And like, let's say you're going for a presentation. You are pitching in your work. you need to tell them about how a project went right before you go in there just say to yourself like what version do i want to be all right you start you clap you say all right guys this presentation we're gonna do this not um um yeah or even better and i've seen people do this very well which is let's say you are nervous right start the thing off with well i'm feeling a bit nervous but i'm gonna make a bunch of jokes the jokes don't even have to be good jokes the fact that you've almost been like i'm nervous brings down people's guard and then they will laugh with you just because they want to make you feel comfortable and i've seen so many people do this and i'm like that's so clever you didn't intention do it but what's happened is now everybody wants you to win so even if your presentation is a bit mid it's a bit dead we want you to win anyway so you get the thing anyway right so really thinking about like how you control your states in certain environment is an absolute as my book says an absolute cheat code guys i almost we didn't want to just go through every bit of the book because i wanted to like do other things but it reminds me like do it scared yeah it's that kind of thing and even tell people you're scared yeah i think the perception is that people might think of me and think oh damien is just super chill interviewing all kinds of big people and sitting on youtube and getting 250 000 views i'm popping myself

46:48Timothy Armoo:I've never heard that one before I like it little rabbit dropping just constantly little pellets coming out absolutely popping myself I'm using so much of this for I'm going on a squiggly careers podcast live audience oh yes how are you when does this happen not without you you're my sister bro is this not your boy no he's not your boy he does a lot of stuff without me it's my time to spread my wings oh there you go he sits in London he's not around so I'm going by myself to represent the podcast 5th of February or 6th of February. Okay. In the Curzon Theatre. They emailed them. They were emailed and I was like, this one's for you too.