How to future proof your career and earn more money

31:28So I was talking to someone about this today, actually. So I remember there was a job of like brand innovation director, I think it was at Amazon that I was looking at this morning. And I'm just going through it and I'm highlighting, oh, rapid growth, that sounds really appealing, leading innovation team, just highlighting the statements. You want to do that for about five jobs, because when you've done it for five jobs, what you can see is some consistencies over the stuff that you are quite interested in. And then that insight can inform your progression priorities. So if you're my manager and you're like, Helen, what do you want to do in the future?

32:00I don't know, because I don't know exactly what job I want to do. And that's okay. What I could say to you is, actually, there are a few possibilities I'm interested in exploring. What's common across all of them is they've got like rapid growth, really enjoy working innovation, have the opportunity to lead a team, I'd love to talk to you about where in the business those projects or positions are and suddenly we've opened up a conversation and you as a manager you now have the opportunity to keep me because you can go okay I get what Helen's interested in all right well why doesn't she why doesn't she keep this project off over here and even if the perfect role isn't there the fact that you have been a manager that has listened to me and made it safe for me to talk about what I want to do not what my job current job title says i should do is a much better way to engage people when managers do talent hoarding which is you're good you're my best salesperson you need to stay here because you you make me look good what the result of that is you are more likely to leave yeah and talent hoarding backfires for businesses i've experienced that the best sales people don't don't get become sales managers because you know we need you to sell yeah we'll promote the person who's crap and and they leave i've also experienced though that managers someone's left and the manager is like he wanted more money elsewhere but he never asked us for more money and we would have paid him more you know he's already quit by the time you know it comes around to that yeah but i think that's because sometimes you feel like you especially if you're in sales you're like you can see how much numbers you're putting on the board you know how well you perform and like what it does to the company and you're like why have you guys not offered me a bonus why do you do not appreciate me but again you have to ask for it but sometimes when you feel like you're that valuable to the company they should just be like this guy's really important we need to look after them but I feel like most companies don't they're just like if they ask us we'll deal with it then but otherwise we'll just keep ticking along because yeah and I think confidence of the work that we do I think confidence is the thing that I see all the time as a block of people in terms of their growth and I think you know I've worked in sales too and you can I think you can make assumptions that if you work in sales that person is 100 confident and they might be in some aspects they might be quite confident negotiating or something that's removed from them but when it comes to them and their career and their identity i think sometimes there's quite a lot of vulnerabilities there like it can break you so you feel really unconfident yeah and people do it because it feels validating but if they've not got that sense of achievement they don't feel valuable and so you've got a lot of that psychology going on that affects people's confidence in you know i can ask for more from that customer but can i ask for more for my career it's a you know i think making assumptions about people who look confident are confident i think is a bit of a problem i think we have to we see that we call them confidence gremlins so these beliefs that hold them back and there are very few people who don't have some beliefs that hold them back in their career you you say get get the talent to do the talking how do you do that so so talents are these are the things that you want to be known for these are things that give you energy at work and the more that we use our talents the more impactful we are in our role so that's kind of that's what we mean by talents and one of the most useful things to do so your talents do talking for you is to start to think about how you can stretch your strengths beyond where you are today so for a lot of people they either don't know what they want to be known for honestly lots of people cannot answer that question um and that's quite risky for the development so you've got to know what you want to be known for and then we need to make sure that it's used more.

35:20Basically, that's the real trick here. So the first stretch in the job that you already do is the easiest place to start to stretch your strengths. So in meetings and conversations, whatever this thing you want to be known for, how could I just make it show up a little bit more, be a bit more intentional? So for example, I used to kind of be a manager in marketing. I decided that the thing that I most want to be known for was career development. So the easiest stretch for me was in as a manager, I just started to use a few more tools with my team. It was the easiest thing. They didn't really realize I was doing it.

35:51I just got a bit better at what I was already doing. Second stretch is in the department that you're in. So is there a project that you could put your hand up for? Could you buddy up with somebody in the department, but outside of your day job? That is a bit of a stretch, but it still feels quite safe because it's quite familiar. You know the context, you know the people. Third stretch is in the organization more broadly. Is there a moment in time, an event, a project, a cross-functional group, like an employee resource group that you could get involved in that might benefit from what you want to be known for.

36:22And then the fourth stretch is outside the company. So could you mentor someone? Could you volunteer? I used to work for a charity, for example. But the point is, in all these opportunities, you are using that strength you want to be known for. And what happens is it gets bigger because you're more experienced and it gets better and when that happens people see you using that strength they associate you with it and it pulls opportunities towards you so that's that's the the way really we want to take our talents and make them do the talking for us so if you're sat there now and you're thinking my job is one that i think might become irrelevant or this space that i'm in is not going anywhere but you know first of all how do people identify that's the case and then how do they go this is where i should move to.

37:07Yeah. So how do I identify that my role is going to become irrelevant? I mean, I'm not, I do not have a crystal ball. What I can kind of cite is lots of the research that's done around this. So you mentioned the World Economic Forum. So their report, 2023, which is kind of later than the one that we talked about in our TED talk, and then they said something like 87 million jobs will be displaced by AI, but I think 95 million will be created. So I think the likelihood is that most of our roles are going to change in some way some perhaps more significantly than others so manufacturing for example lots of stuff in retail AI is having a very significant data entry and typist yeah I think there are some potentially obvious ones but I honestly think the safer assumption is to think my role is likely to be disrupted by AI in the next couple of years I think that is a safer way for people to think and so I think thinking about well what skills are going to support me to create my career in the future and proactively investing in those.

38:06Now, that depends very much on what you want to do. If someone wants to stay in data, there are different skills that I would suggest that they start investing in versus someone who wants to stay in marketing. I think the point is you're scanning further forward. If people just look at the bubble of where their job is today, they won't be able to see the skills they need to invest in. So I think you need to look beyond, be proactive with your career, but build the relationships that's the thing that will help people get to where they want to go i asked chat gpt for some jobs that had been displaced in the past and there was like some crazy ones have you ever heard of a knocker-upper it sounds it sounds pretty nice setting me up no so i mean it's yeah it's not what you think they they were displaced by the alarm clock and their job was to knock on people's windows to wait them up before alarm clocks existed yeah yeah the knocker-upper and there's like images of them and they have like a like a stick with a thing on that was like wrapped something bang on the windows to wake them up yeah yeah i wonder if they love their jobs who woke up the knocker upper though and how did they get them um there's there's no lift operators yeah bowling pin stackers so yeah one of the first things stack up yeah yeah there's just a guy back there just like putting it off comes out of the tunnel but you know that's automation isn't it yeah and it's not it's not new i think we talk about it and it's scary and it will it will transform the way people do their jobs, but technology impacting people's work and what jobs exist and what new ones are created, that is not new.

39:33The thing we need to do is make sure that we are resilient and so that we don't make our development dependent on what we do today or, you know, one company or even one person. A lot of people will make their development dependent on their manager. So you're my manager and I expect you to tell me what to do, what to learn, what my next opportunity is and every time we introduce that dependency we we bring in risk so we're just trying to help people have more choices i think you can get caught um unaware though because you know with the ai what what came out was within the first early iterations it was coding and and i think instantly all these people that have been told their whole lives if you learn how to code you'll have a job for life we're like oh crap you know this this this thing here is coding at an okay level yeah what's it going to be like in 10 years and that means and that's a skill that we've been force-fed to set you up for life that's now actually might be displaced by technology it's like we don't see it coming yeah i mean i'm worried because i think like sales skills are like oh it'll be fine it's sales skills but then people mate people buy from yeah people skills as well but then what if they make the like elon musk little tesla robots what if they make them more and more lifelike and they become more so that if you call up someone for service you don't know if it's a human or if it's an ai because they're so good at selling and they're so like lifelike so he might go back to face to face then another one was door-to-door salesman before before the inter before adverts so they were walking adverts and this is what i learned they were displaced by tv ads because you could sell to many yeah but like knocking on doors was like the original this is a vacuum here's an encyclopedia or a bible yeah i think design skills as well you know you've got people that have heavily invested in design skills and then you've got things like computers yeah mid journey and dali that can quite quickly and that's where it is today.

41:14I mean, we don't quite know how many things are going to come from AI and how it's going to affect careers. But what we do know is that if we don't keep investing in ourselves and we don't keep exploring, we don't keep trying to evolve our roles before the choice is taken away from us, that's going to be problematic. So I think that's the thing. We want to create learners. There's a difference between know-it-all when knowledge is actually going out of date quite quickly and learn-it-alls where people are constantly thinking about, well, how could I learn? Who could I help? Who could help me? That's the sort of thinking we're trying to create for people in their career.

41:47How can people learn? That's a good question, because what does it mean to learn? Yeah, so it's actually the subject of our next book, which I'm not really allowed to talk about. We're just literally today, it's handed over to Penguin. The thing, I guess, the idea for the book is this whole kind of thing that I've been talking about, about the importance of learning, but also the recognition that most people find it hard to do. So I'm here saying, oh, the thing that's going to help you to stay relevant, the thing that's going to help you to have opportunities as if you learn and someone's thinking well that's great but I spend all day on calls and emails like how how am I supposed to find time to learn so what we are trying to do is help people add learning into their day rather than it being something that always has to be added on you know like I have to go on a course or I have to find a free Friday which like which never happens you never have the free Friday so what what we're trying to do is help people to learn through things like experiments like experiments in meetings and conversations that you are already in and how people can use data that they've already got around their job to then make sort of tweaks and changes that can improve their development.

42:49The quality of the questions we ask. Questions are an amazing way that we learn from other people. But very often people have quite a limited question range. They always ask the same kinds of questions. And so there are small things that we can do that help people to learn a lot more at work. And given that that's where we spend most of our time that's where we have the biggest opportunity to grow so that's that's what we're trying to do small everyday things you can add into what you're already doing i mean i just want to hammer this point about the learning stuff you know because not everyone works for an employer that will support their learning and you know they want to learn whilst on the job rather than going okay i've got to go home and i've got to study for two hours yeah how are they doing that when they might have an employer that is not supportive and their ambition is to leave that employer yeah so one of the one of the things again you've got to go back to let's not let's take away some of the assumptions about what learning what learning looks like so learning has to go on a course like let's take away that assumption it doesn't have to do that learning can be something you do every day um learning has to be something that my manager endorses so they have to say here's you know here's your thing no you don't have to no one needs to give you permission to learn you can choose choose to learn learning has to come with a qualification.

44:01Some of it might do, but definitely not all of it. Most learning doesn't come with a qualification. What it does require is a bit of commitment. But going back to this is your career, not your manager's career, what we are trying to do is help people to take ownership. Now, that to one side, so we're taking ownership, we're creating opportunities, and we're not making our development dependent. That aside, someone doesn't have a lot of time. Someone doesn't have a lot of time to learn. One of the things that we've seen most effective for learning is the concept of a sprint. So, and we've been trialing this with our community.

44:30We've had over 8 ,000 people sprinting with us this summer. So this is the idea of small bits of daily learning. So you take a skill like, I don't know, you'd know this more than me, some kind of YouTube thing that you want to get better at. And every day you are designing like a 15 minute window into your day where you're going to learn about that thing. So maybe you do a bit of an experiment, and get some feedback. Maybe you try a quick, quick tool, maybe look at somebody who you might consider, I don't know, a competitor who's doing it a bit better so you can learn from them. But what we want to do is over, say, a week, you accumulate your learning in small, accessible ways.

45:07So we run month long sprints. We do it with companies. We do it with our community, where every day it's a small, it's a very small amount of learning. I've done one with a client today, for example, it's a month long sprint. And they have half an hour once a week for a month. But this idea of taking quite a big skill, becoming proficient at some YouTube tech and breaking it down to small segments and then almost creating like a learning streak. So you're borrowing from stuff like Duolingo or Peloton or Java, that idea of not wanting to lose the streak. But we are creating a learning streak. And it works even better if you do it with someone else.

45:43So when you build in the accountability of a buddy or a community, then it makes it easier to stick to a sprint. but it's that smaller more frequent learning is easier for people to fit into a day when we if I said to you oh can you find five hours this week you you might say no maybe I mean an hour a day is quite a lot but it's that idea of let's not look at the the total time and try and fit that in let's break it down to something that's more achievable 15 minutes is achievable as well and it might even be on your commute or in your lunch break you know or you know how many people work eight hours a day there's a couple of hours there isn't there we've seen sprints we in the summer ours was seven minutes a day so we're sort of experimenting with like i'm doing one at the moment i did one today that was half an hour with a company the community one we did was seven minutes a day for a month but um i wouldn't want to do more than 30 minutes i think the idea is it's got to be short yeah yeah and what what is the types of learning that you find that are effective and sticky for people well i guess the learning that we are doing with our sprints is very focused on career development.

46:47So, but I think you could easily do it on a technical thing. So for example, I use Canva a lot for a lot of the things that we create. I don't think I'm that skilled on Canva. I think I'm doing the same things over and over again, but they've released loads of new tech and loads of different things. I could spend, I could do a Canva skill sprint. It's a platform that I use that I'm probably using in the same way. Over 15 minutes a day for a week, I could say, do you know what? I'm going to try out a new tool on Canva every day so that I can experiment by the end of that week I'd be much more proficient in using that platform than I currently am so most of the things that I do around career development communications leadership creating trust developing confidence those sorts of things but that's just because that's my work I think most things you could break into a sprint so it's much it's much more achievable but my top tips would be don't do more than half an hour a day because then I think you'll it'll start that time will start competing with other things and don't do it for longer than a month because I you'll get, you'll lose that energy.

47:44I was about to ask if you were doing something like a degree or diploma or something, you don't think it would be like, if you had like a year long course or like a three month course and you don't think that would be the best. It's something that you can deal with. It's a specific skill. And I think month, we see this after a month, people just start to lose a bit of that energy. So again, we are, this is what we're experimenting with. What's the optimum length of a sprint and what's the optimum amount of time a day for people to sprint. but whilst we're working out the answer to that i think people can experiment with it themselves yeah so when i started youtube i had no video production experience so it's like all these tasks that are like super alien to me i'd never picked up a camera and how how do i get better at those over time and it was just like one percent improvements every time of like oh let's learn a little bit about lighting and then with the editing you've got a whole suite of software that looks it looks crazy it's almost like a trading setup it's all these buttons you just follow people online step by step button click of like this is how to edit this effect and you do that and you do it like 10 times and before you know it I could watch an edit and pull it apart myself and go oh they're using these kind of things I remember one time sitting there watching Netflix going I could make this documentary I can't believe that these guys are on Netflix where all they're doing is sitting doing a mic and doing a simple edits you know and I think what tends to happen is we have that when we start something particularly if it's something we're passionate about we have that energy to experiment but then what happens is we become competent and we don't necessarily go back to being a beginner you get stuck in a rut yeah you kind of settle on the skill set and don't push yourself so this idea of sort of unlearning and relearning is really important so very often with learning it's always about the next skill the new thing but actually if most of your time is spent video editing, going back to basics and going, what's actually changed in the last two years?

49:36Sometimes that's often the learning that people don't look for because they're so attracted to new shiny skills that they dismiss the value of being a beginner on the things that they are already doing. Yeah. So I'm obsessed with continuous improvement within the content space. And I've hired an editor now who's better than me. So I went back to the thing, the most valuable task I do is script writing. So I went back to that and said, how can I improve that? And I went and found this like storytelling coach from Hollywood and I pay him for sessions and within the education. Cause I'm like, who else is going to be paying a guy who writes scripts for Hollywood to try and I've only done one session.

50:11And on the first session, we just talked about ancient Greek thoughts on storytelling, pathos, logos, ethos. And you know, it's just anything that gives me an edge because I know that my competitors won't be able to do that and it's like how do i continually lift the bar to the point where people look at me and go he's so far ahead there's no point even trying but that idea of almost like creating your own curriculum is really powerful so kind of old school learning was i'd go on a course where someone had designed that for me and everyone would be learning the same thing and it might not actually be that relevant to what you want to do anyway but this idea of you going well if this is what i want to learn how can i design my own development that's really unique to me so much more powerful because a you will feel more ownership of it because it's your it's your idea you've kind of gone after those things it's going to be much more personalized to what you what you want to know and therefore much more likely that you will apply that learning and the one little other thing for you to maybe do is is the best way to make your learning last um is to teach it to other people yeah so that building that in to your learning loop is a really effective way of you consolidating your knowledge and making it stick yeah i think for like someone like you you look at something you're good at and then go how can i get amazing at that elite at it something that people always said is you have this storytelling element to your content okay let's actually explore that from a skill set perspective rather than being like i'm highly unorganized as an individual i hired someone to be organized for me you know i don't because i hate this whole thing of you should get better at the things you're bad at yeah i think you should get world class at the things you're good at and get rid of everything else agreed you know how if you're someone that doesn't know what you're good at or what skills to build how do you identify those things um i think they are two different questions so i'm someone that doesn't know what i'm good at how do i work that out and then i'm someone who doesn't know what skills to build how do i do that so let's take them separately um if you don't know what you're good at we see that quite a lot with people sometimes it's because of confidence gremlins so they're like oh i don't know if i should say i'm good at that because you're better at it me than that kind of a thing but let's just imagine they just genuinely don't know what they're good at ask other people ask people for some strength based feedback.

52:16Simplest question to ask someone is what three words would you use to describe me at my best? And go and ask quite a few people because then you'll start to see is there some similarities in the skills that they are spotting or actually are my strengths showing up very differently with different people? Ideally for your brand we need consistency in your strengths so if 10 different people say different things that's not brilliant for our development but I would just start there what three words would you describe me at my best is the first one that will help you to get some insight about your impact.

52:48You need to work out whether that is your intent. That is actually what I want to be known for, but that's a slightly different conversation. Second one, I have no idea what skills I should be focusing on. I would go and look at some jobs that you are interested in. It might not feel like the next job for you. It might just be, this is a kind of a few possibilities that I'm curious about. Look for the skills that they want in those job descriptions. There's so much data in them. I do this for my role, so I don't want to stagnate in the job that I'm in. So I will often look at LinkedIn, other job descriptions, and I will look at what skills are they asking for?

53:20Because that is the way that you future-proof your career. You look at those skills and you invest in them now. You don't wait to feel like you're falling behind with them. And on this point of mobility around an organization, what has your research shown about that in terms of earning money? Yeah, it's interesting. So there's not loads of research directly about how does mobility result in more money. There's some that has been done around squiggling at different points in your career, like squiggling earlier on increases your opportunities so that you can specialise later, and specialising later in your career can result in more money.

53:57But there's not kind of direct research that I could cite now about mobility drives more money. What we do know is when organisations encourage mobility, it makes people consider staying for longer. What we do know is when organisations make it easier for people to, what we call, try before they apply, they are more likely to consider roles in an organisation. So we did a big piece of research we call the squiggle and stay research. We had 15 organisations, 7 ,000 employees, which were all experimenting with different ways to squiggle and stay, different ways to have mobility in the organisation.

54:34And there's some really interesting and simple things that organisations can do. So one of the things that Specsavers trialled was changing an internal job advert, just putting at the top of the job advert, this role is open to career change. they had a 26 % uplift in applications where they had made it just they'd given people permission to basically apply for a job that they don't do today so we've not got the pay but what we do see is much higher consideration when organizations make it easier for people to move across functions that not get stuck in a silo do you think employers understand that people are more mobile are likely to change quicker yeah yeah I definitely do and I think that's why they need to show value to the employee in terms of what do we provide i mean i'm talking beyond you know ping pong tables and those sort of things but actually we are investing in you that we we want you to stay we want you to create an impact we are going to invest in you and your skills and your learning and your employability um so that they are more likely they're more likely to stay but i think all what we definitely see is when managers have conversations with people about their career they are more likely to stay.

55:45It's that point I told you about consideration. So there is an assumption I think for some managers that if I talk to you about your career you're going to be more likely to leave because we're going to talk about other things that you would want to do. But actually if we talk to people about their possibilities, if we help them to move around a business they are more likely to stay. Silos and not having career conversations result in talented people who want to take their talents elsewhere. So we need to invest in people but actually you know have lots of career conversations with them how how do um how do you have that conversation with your company if they're not forthcoming with as an individual say you go that you listen to this now and go oh yeah okay i want to have that conversation yeah but your boss isn't gonna do that because they've never done it yeah what they do do the standard quarterly check-in that's you know just means nothing yeah what how do you have that conversation in a meaningful way so in in an organization again ladder like career manages the gateway to your growth you're pretty stuck if they don't talk to you or they do it once a year a squiggly career you need a community so we do not want to make our development dependent on any one person now sometimes you get a manager who's open and proactive and you know you mentioned someone that you had in sales that was wanted you to do well and they were investing in you we don't always get that so we need to invest in a community outside of that individual so mentors are really important.

57:06A mentor, simplest definition, just someone who has done what you would like to do. So they do not have to be more senior than you. They could be someone new to a business, but if they've done what you want to do, you can talk about your career, you can learn through them. Second role, a sponsor. So this is someone who's got access and influence over an area you're interested in. So let's say there's a project or a position or I don't know, an event. I think that I would like to work on that. Sponsors are often the people who will advocate for you and make that that possibility kind of a reality but you you earn sponsorship so i couldn't just ask you to say some nice things about me i need to show up with my strengths i probably need to help you solve some problems or work on a priority with you so you see me at my best and the third role that i think is really useful um is to have somebody who can kind of play the role of a coach for you so it doesn't have to be an actual coach they tend to be a bit expensive and not available to everybody so great if you've got one but if you think about the capability of a coach is somebody who asks questions that make you think and that creates the space um so they'll do a lot of listening and asking questions you you do the thinking and those people are really useful for you to think through well if that didn't work then what would i do and who else could i talk to and those sort of prompts are really useful so we're always helping people to think yes your manager will be able to provide some insight and access to opportunities but don't make your development dependent on that person back to curious career conversations and build in your community that's often how you you unlock some of these things that I'm talking about what are some practical ways for people to build relationships at work so the first thing to do is know that there are different types of relationships will do different things for your development so there are strong ties these are quite deep connections so these are people that you work with quite closely.

58:52They know you, they know what you do. So let's say that's you, you're a strong tie, we've worked with each other for a while. I could ask you for your advice. You might make recommendations because you get me. These kind of relationships are really good for support. So if I'm going through a hard time, I'm struggling a bit, I would come to you and I would feel probably more confident as a result of that conversation. We all need a bit of that. Then there are what's called weak ties. These are people that we don't work very closely and we don't know each other very well, but there tends to be a point of connection.

59:22So we've both got a podcast, or maybe we've both worked in sales, or we both went to the same university. There is some point of connection, but it's not particularly strong. These are the opportunities that are most likely to create possibilities for our careers, because these people are working in worlds that we are not in, they can see things that we can't. And these relationships are the ones that are particularly useful for your future possibilities. Now, the fact that I already have a connection, even though it might not be, well, it's a weak tie, it's not a particularly strong one, it gives me a way in.

59:56So I might say, oh, we've both got a podcast. I'd love to have a chat with you about your experience. I've got a couple of questions. And we're more likely to get a yes in that situation because of that connection. The skill really is to have a bit of both. Now, some people say, I know how to get you because I see you, I know what you do. I don't I don't know how to get you. So a couple of ways that you can do it. A, you can ask for an introduction. So strong ties can make introductions to weak ties. So I might say, oh, I'm thinking about growing my podcast. Do you know anybody who I could talk to?

1:00:26And you could be a bit of bridge for me. You can also make a cold connection. So I could go on LinkedIn and write a message to you. Now that's got a lower conversion rate because you might be thinking, I don't know who this person is that's messaging me. So I always recommend if people are going to take that approach, they warm it up first so maybe i comment on a few of your posts i might share some of it so that when i do reach out to connect with you i'm more than just a random name i'm somebody that is kind of familiar to you but yet the skill really is to work both of those different types of connections because they they do different things for development we'll ask this to everyone around the table if you like if you could go back to 25 year olds your old self yeah um and give a piece of career advice what would it be do you want to start with you two so you don't steal someone else is yeah i was actually gonna steal one you already gave yeah quit early quit early and move move frequency frequently and yeah experience as many things as possible in all aspects of life but yeah experience as much as possible in the work life um i would have run your own race and by that i mean don't try to compete with other people or compare yourself to them like think about what motivates you what you want to be known for and let that drive your development I'd just say chill out um it takes time to gather experience that's worthwhile not many people figure things out in their early 20s and at 25 you can feel like you should have figured things out it took me until I was about 30 and then within a few years my whole life changed and I think you know overnight success 10 12 years in the making yeah you know like that kind of thing um yeah so just just relax and enjoy your 20s because once they're gone they're gone yeah be a mess in your 20s yeah I definitely did that yeah I wish I could go back and be even messier even squigglier get proper squiffy it's never too late to squiggle no no that's it i love how you i love the word squiggle it's great it's great isn't it um what about then if someone's listening to this now and they feel a bit overwhelmed because they they want to be squiggly or whatever but they don't know where to start what do you say to them i think i would just work through um one kind of one piece of this at a time because to your point like careers along.

1:02:31There's a lot going on. If we try and do all this at once, it will feel quite overwhelming. So I think the first thing that I would always say to people is values, which we've talked about. So really think about what really motivates you. When you get up in the morning, what is driving you? And there's no judgment on what the answer is to that, but you work that out for you, because that should be kind of your compass really for your career. Then I would do that. Then I would think about what do I actually want to be known for? So what are the talents that I want to stand out and try then to think about how do I use them a bit more how do I stretch them a bit more because that will pull possibilities towards you and then I think that the third thing I would say is about the community we talked about a little bit um conversations and communities go beyond the role and relationship you have with your manager on your career so many people just start and stop there and they are missing out on learning and opportunities and connections that will create opportunities for their career.

1:03:26But I would start in that order. Values, your strengths and talents, and then the career conversations. Amazing, thank you.

1:03:37Please remember, this is not financial advice. Like we say a lot on the podcast, investments can fall and rise. In fact, it's pretty much a guarantee. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. So your money is at risk with investing and other fees may apply. As with everything financial, please do your own research. We really encourage that because no one cares more about your money than you. I'm Damo. Banti. This was an episode of Making Money from Our Company Most. It was filmed and edited by the team at Flow Spire, Jack and Ben. It was produced by Ruth Edwards and brought together by Will Stollerman.

1:04:07What about Ruth and Toothless the Dog? Yeah, shout out them too.