This is how you build wealth - The Plain Bagel

27:32And having kids definitely didn't help. We started having kids in the middle of the pandemic. So it's a lot harder to find time to go to the gym. No, it's something I'm slowly getting back into. Not quite at the prime I used to do it, but yeah, occasionally I do it, try to get to the gym and get back to things. Do you see a lot of similarities between the habits that it takes to be good in the gym and the habits it takes to be a good investor? Oh, yeah. I don't know if I can speak to that. I feel like I'm maybe putting myself out there is a bit more experience in the gym than I am. But sure, I mean, like in terms of slow and steady, I think so.

28:08And what I will say is I think habit's kind of everyone's best tool in both arenas where, and I found this even with studying for exams and things of that sort, where inspiration's really great for kind of in the moment activity and pushing yourself to do something, but it's not really sustainable. And I think the best way to do something consistently to do it well is through habit, where you do it enough that it becomes part of your routine and becomes less of a it gets to a point where it requires less effort to do so. I think that applies with money management. I think it applies with learning about investing and things like that, where if you get into the habit of, say, doing something on the daily or the weekly where it's just part of your routine, you can cover a lot of ground in whatever arena it'd be.

29:00I guess that's one benefit of a professional manager is they enforce that habit, right? You just kind of hand the money over and then they do that day to day, whereas you might not if you're a professional, especially a high net worth individual who's probably got a lot on their plate already. Yeah, and that's kind of the biggest thing with higher net worth individuals as well is they, some of the time, like at times you're dealing with executives and doctors, especially family doctors in Canada have ridiculous schedules. And, you know, at the end of the day, they just have such, their time just isn't worth it, quite frankly, in terms of the amount of money they can make by just focusing on their careers.

29:40you know and there's always a passive approach so mind you there is it's not to say that they couldn't say save fees by taking a different approach but to them it's it's they want someone to keep an eye on their portfolio to keep them updated on things while handing off the the process and making sure things are being done well there'll be some doctors in the UK listening to this thinking they need to move to Canada because the NHS probably doesn't pay well enough to be a high net worth individual. That's for sure. Well, you know, it depends what kind of doctor you are in Canada. So, you know, we have our public health care service and there's been a lot of concern recently actually about doctors leaving Canada for similar issues where especially with the US right across the border where doctors are paid substantially more for basically the same work.

30:27You mentioned the US is just across the border. You're obviously Canadian, but most of your... Yes. Your content, and I imagine your research, focuses on America. I want to put your brains on America a little bit, if that's okay. As someone who lives in the UK, I think the UK's got a lot of issues, but it's got a lot going for it as well. And often the narrative is like, you know, the world revolves around America and America is all you need. Do you believe in American exceptionalism? Do you think it's the only market that really matters and will always only matter long term? That's a tough question.

31:01I definitely don't think it's the only market that matters. I definitely think they're going to maintain dominance for quite some time. I think, you know, when you just look at the, I mean, like their stock market alone represents over half of the global stock market. So you have to pay it regardless of where you live. If you're an investor, you have to pay attention to the U.S. stock market. That being said, that comes with its own drawbacks that are worth being aware of. And one of those drawbacks being valuation, for example, it's very hard to find a good stock deal in the stock market. Whereas you can find cheaper positions that, you know, maybe their valuation doesn't see any expansion in the near term, but maybe they pay a better dividend or return more capital to their investors and earn you a return that way.

31:49You know, and I'm not one for, you know, no one knows what's going to happen in 10 years if the US is still going to be dominant. But they have a pretty cemented position for the near term. Just when you look at the dominance of the dollar, when you look at the just insurmountable amount of U.S. debt that needs to be paid off over time from different countries. There's so much in circulation that revolves around the U.S. dollar. Well, the U.S. and by extension, the U.S. dollar, for example, that while things might move in inches, it's going to take a long time before we see. I think there's often predictions of a flip and something that's going to happen and the empire is going to fall in two years or something along those lines.

32:32And I'm more of a skeptic of those kind of narratives. I think you need to pay attention to it. I think, you know, things might change. We might see a changing of the guard eventually, but it's questionable whether it will be within our lifetime. Do you not believe that some Saudi prince has just signed a contract to eliminate the petrodollar or whatever the conspiracy is that emerged? I think you debunked it quite well, but this is the narrative that circulates a lot. Yeah. I think a lot of people, especially in that kind of group, which I think you see a lot of crypto communities and a lot of gold communities, precious metal communities, they present the US dollar's dominance as again sort of this thing that's on the cusp of being cut off or an agreement that's going to fall through.

33:22I think what's not often well represented is that the US dollar is still a currency of choice for many countries. It's not something that's being you know you could argue it's been forced by market factors onto people but the reason why a lot of, you know, why 90 % of foreign exchange transactions involve the US dollar is because it's a currency of choice for many countries, for trade, for things of that sort. Now, it's not to say there's not real considerations when it comes to, you know, back with the initial invasion of Ukraine and kind of the fallout with Russia. There's a lot of discussion about the weaponization of the dollar and how that is going to push people away because all of a sudden the US could say to this adversary, well, we're kicking you off of our systems and you can no longer use our SWIFT platform and things of that sort.

34:13And I think there are valid concerns around that. But by and large, the US dollar still remains kind of the currency of choice for many, many countries. And kind of similar to the statement around empires falling, I think, yes, things might change eventually, but I don't see it as sort of a trigger event or even possibly something that we might, it might not be something we see in our lifetime. Do you think there are any risks that you see within the American market that you could point to that you would be worried about or that you think should be talked about? I mean, I think there's lots of risks that you could talk about.

34:50It's, you know, I always focus on the long term, so I try not to emphasize too much on the risks. But there's, of course, a lot of things. Commercial real estate is one that's still struggling quite significantly. where we just haven't seen and we may never see the demand return back to commercial real estate. And we have a lot of institutions who have lent money to sell these properties or to help people buy these properties, sorry, who are now stuck with failing loans. I think that's one area for concern and to keep an eye on. But I do often try to avoid, you know, there's no predicting whether that leads to, say, a massive one-day sell-off or if it's more of a slow bleed or if it's something that resolves itself.

35:37So it's worth considering those risks and being aware of them. But I don't lose any sleep over it, is how I would frame it. I think I read like Russia and China were talking about not using the dollar to trade anymore because of like war. So do you not think it's an actual risk? I think there's risk of the dollar devaluing or inflating. The question is whether there's something that will flip the demand from the dollar to something else. And I think a lot of people as well, they sort of associate any sort of decrease in the US dollar's global use as something that's going to lead to the toppling of the dollar as a whole.

36:20You know, there's often this idea that if other countries stop using the US dollar, we're going to see inflation skyrocket. And the thing is, is that's a very it seems like a very simple concept, but there's a lot of complexities hidden in there that don't make it such a simple relationship. The US, for example, takes on a lot of there are a lot of burdens that come with being the world reserve currency. And that doesn't mean they haven't benefited from that position when it comes to trade negotiation and things of that sort. but i i think you know it's it's an area and quite frankly it's not an area that i would consider i'm not a geopolitical expert so if you were to say you know do you think china and russia are going to overtake the u.s i don't know uh it could me who knows uh it's more so about the timing and how likely it is to occur within an instant and i think those risks do often get um over represented, whereas you don't often, you hear a lot of noise about this concern, this risk, and it seems time and time again, we don't really see the follow through of actual consequences to what's being talked about.

37:28Do you think then AI is a similar narrative that where the risk is overblown?

37:37You know, again, I wouldn't want to present myself as an expert in the area. I would. You know nothing about it as well and pretend he's an expert. No, I mean, crypto, crypto and AI, they go hand in hand. Yeah, they're basically the same thing. Yeah, they're basically the same thing. Yeah, crypto and a bit of AI. All right, well then, you want some stats? Go on. Bank of America, they did a poll. They said 40 % of fund managers believe that AI was a bubble and that it would, like AI stocks were a bubble currently. So they're thinking it might not go through. However, lots of people do think that the AI might be a bubble, but the technology underneath it will continue to evolve and be there in the future.

38:19So although some of these companies may not be here in 10 years, so you should be cautious if you're picking AI stocks. But the technology, everyone loves AI. The technology is really good. And that's what's going to grow over in the future. Maybe like a dot-com bubble kind of vibe. Yeah. That's what they do. Dot-com bubble. A bit like crypto. That's a really good comparison. Yeah, because I think, you know, with the dot-com bubble, it's something I've, there's another guy, Ben Felix, who is another Canadian performance manager slash YouTuber. And he's kind of talked about before how a lot of research highlights that technological revolutions are not really great for stock market returns.

38:56And it's because of the attrition of going through startups and the number of companies that fail in the process of developing this technology. You look at the dot-com bubble, I mean, we had like the globe.com was the first or one of the first social media sites, and it's something that does not exist anymore. You know, just the amount of attrition, and there are hundreds of startups and companies that many people thought were the future of these industries and that don't exist today. You know, Amazon and Google, people often highlight them, but they really are rarities in the space of companies that survived and flourished after the dot-com bubble.

39:34Nonetheless, if you were to base the success on the technology off of the stock market, you would assume the Internet died. And yet here we are today, you know, we're conferencing over the Internet. So I think that's a fair statement that the underlying technology can have very real implications and will matter. And we'll have, you know, I think it's clear to see that with AI capabilities, like they're getting tremendously better by the day. But in terms of whether that's going to lead to a meaningful stock market return, it's hard to say. Do you know Amara's Law? I think it's, you know, we tend to overestimate the impact of tech in the short term and underestimate it in the long run.

40:13I believe I've heard that. Yeah, I wouldn't have been able to say the name for it. I read it yesterday. It's my only one. You know, I whip it out of the pocket. No, but I think a good example of that is, say, like the iPhone, right? In terms of that is probably the biggest tech shift in our lives. That's the thing that if we go back 20 years ago, I'd say that's the one, right? That's like entered our lives. And I don't think anyone really saw it come in. And it's, you know, people might have thought all these other things flying cars say, whereas it can kind of creep into your life and embed itself over a long period of time rather than flick a switch and everything changes.

40:52And I think that's what the difficulty of stock market investing can really be is trying to predict. It's not just trying to understand the company. You have to keep in mind there's so many unpredictable factors that are likewise influencing the stocks you're investing in. So you can do all the research in the world to understand a company that you want to invest in. And regardless, something external or a consumer shift in sentiment or changes in consumer tastes will revolutionize how this company performs or how it does. So, you know, you have to in investing. I think that's why it's important to diversify.

41:30I know there's a debate in the active community about over diversification versus concentration. But I think one of the reasons you diversify is you have to acknowledge there is no there's known unknowns and then there's unknown unknowns, meaning that there are risks that you aren't even aware of that can devastate your portfolio. And to the upside, you know, as well, where who knew that Apple, one of their biggest products today would be the iPhone. At the time, I think people made fun of the product and compared it to Nokia, which was much more cheaper and things like that. So, you know, I think you have to have those considerations when you take the route of investing to really acknowledge the limitations we have in forecasting these kind of things.

42:13Do you see things come along, though, and you think, oh, crap, I'm going to need to consider this across my portfolio? Does something like AI pose like a big moment to you at all, or is it? i mean we so quite frankly we don't often like and this comes down to to our type of approach um i would say we don't often play themes too heavily and what i mean by that is is themes are companies that will do well simply because they're associated with something whether it be ai in canada we had a big weed stock boom a while back uh where when marijuana became was getting ready and became legalized in Canada, there are all these companies that were producing marijuana and their stock prices were skyrocketing.

42:58And it's something that we didn't even touch with our portfolios. And thankfully, because all of them are down like 80 to 90 % since. And so when it comes to this, so we do have moments, yes, where a stock comes up and say there's a correction. and it's actually one area we like to play is when there's say bad news about a company that we think is a good business with solid fundamentals we'll have moments where we go and enter this position but for the most part if we like a company assuming that the valuation is within a reasonable range because we've come to appreciate you come to appreciate over time that good businesses don't always go on sale.

43:41And so long as you're content with the price you're paying for what you're getting, we'll end up investing for a lot of the companies that we like. There's some companies that we like that we deem too expensive. So it's not like there's, there is a limit on how much we're willing to pay for the underlying profits of a company. But for the most part, you know, if the business ends up being a good business, in the long term you're not going to care much whether you paid a 15 or say 25 times for multiple it's going to mean a lot less if the business ends up truly being a really strong performer over the long term why do you think individuals or the market or even the news cycle becomes obsessed then with you know these explosive companies and things that change very quickly when what you're saying is that rarely happens or it's not sustainable or it's the wrong thing to do I think it's just availability bias or recency bias where I think we're just programmed to pay more attention to those flashy stories, right?

44:42Like I think it's the same reason why people still gamble when we all know mathematically the odds are against us. It's because there's excitement and there's the sort of almost primal sort of reaction to seeing stocks do really well. And so when it comes to and I find this is especially a tough thing with people who are starting off investing is there's usually this focus for, you know, I just need to find the one that's going to take off. And so a lot of people take on excessive risk in search for those types of companies where when a lot of people start picking stocks, they focus on penny stocks or, you know, those positions that kind of promise that potential to just skyrocket in value.

45:29But when, you know, there's not a whole lot of data to support the idea that that pans out over the long term that, you know, when we see positions like NVIDIA, for example, with its skyrocketing return, in hindsight, it appears like an obvious thing. You know, we say, oh, well, of course, you know, they're the shovel sellers during the gold rush, right? They're selling picks during a gold rush, but instead of, you know, they're selling chips during an AI gold rush. but it's all hindsight it's all you know it gives this false sense that that's a common occurrence in the market when if you were to compare all the companies side by side and you were to have all the data you really wouldn't see that same number so it's kind of the difficult thing that investors have to deal with and that's when I was talking about money management I think advisors add a lot of value with the behavioral side of money management especially if you find that you struggle with that aspect of finance is, you know, humans kind of have those two sides to their brain, to their thinking.

46:30They have the primal reactionary side and they have the slower thinking, critical and thoughtful side. And usually the primal, you know, I think it's called the reptile brain or what caveman side of our brain that people call it, that it can overpower the more thoughtful side with reactions and gut feelings when that's not really appropriate when it comes to stock market investing. How much do you think then to, you're a YouTuber, right? And I know, you know, what, what, what sells, what clicks, what gets clicks is sensational stuff. How much do you think Finfluencers feed into this, this problem of people focusing on the sexy stuff?

47:09Yeah, I think it's, it's an issue I've, I've talked about a lot on the channel and it's kind of a gripe I have with, with the space. And it's not to say, you know, I think um i i you know at the end of the day youtube is a business for a lot of people and i understand especially if you're you're a smaller creator competing in a sea of content i understand the motivations um and there's i think it's a charlie munger quote of show me the incentives and i'll tell you the outcomes um so i think it's it's definitely um

47:44when i i try not to be too harsh on the space because i recognize that a lot of it is an issue of platform versus character um you know if you are trying to get a presence on youtube it's difficult to do so when the to do so in a way that doesn't that avoids sensationalizing stuff uh when there's a sea of content you have to compete with uh but i do think finance is maybe one of the worst areas for sensationalism. I think them and maybe prank channels are kind of up there in terms of what they sensationalize content with. And I think it's a detriment to a lot of investors because, you know, when you read books about the psychology of managing your finances, of money, you read about, you know, it's good to ignore the noise and look through the short term and focus on the long term.

48:36Whereas these creators are often incentivized to highlight the short term and to doom posts and highlight the concern and risks. And it's something that I've seen firsthand where my own videos, probably more recently, especially the ones I've done the best are the ones that focus on near-term crises. So when you have the Silicon Valley bank collapse in March of 2023, I think, um that was my best performing video for the year um and mind you the video was trying to explain what had happened but it's it gets people's attention and and because the viewers on youtube they're more drawn to those um those videos that talk about a crisis coming more than their interest in videos that talk about calm seas ahead um you know there's kind of this incentive structure in place.

49:26And I do think finance is kind of one of the worst perpetrators out there of that kind of stuff. How does that shape your, like, you know, you're making a piece of content, you know that it does well if it's negative or it's around a crisis. You also know that your audience want your view on that. How do you feel about that? Well, that's the balance, right? I think it's not to say we shouldn't talk about issues and stuff. And I think what I will say is kind of a saving grace for a lot of creators is even, you know, the ones that are really popular who will highlight these crises, they often end on the same note, which is like, you know, it's not something you should be trading on.

50:07It's likely something that's going to pass. You should focus on the long term. So the videos do eventually tend to get there. But sort of upfront, you know, how they hook you in is they take advantage of that. With my own videos, you You know, I'd love to say that I've steered away from that stuff because I just, you know, I'm I have that ability to not care about channel success and things like that. I wouldn't say it's that it's in part because I because I work in the field. I have to keep in mind that I have clients who will watch the videos. I have fellow employees and even my boss, to an extent, I don't think he I don't think he actually watches my videos.

50:47But, you know, there's a chance that there are people who in my professional career will be watching a plain bagel video. So I need to consider that when I'm putting together the framing of a crisis. You know, if I'm working as a portfolio manager and saying to a client, look, there's higher risk at the moment. But overall, we don't think there's reason for long term concern. We think it's going to blow over. but I'm going on YouTube and I'm saying, you know, bringing the alarm bell and talking about how this crisis is going to crash the whole US market. You know, there's a conflict there. So my strategy with YouTube is really just to align what I'm saying professionally with what I do on YouTube.

51:28And YouTube's always been an extension of my job in finance to an extent where I sometimes cover topics just out of interest on the YouTube side. But a lot of what I cover on YouTube is stuff that I've looked into regardless from a career side. So because of that, I have benefited in that way in terms of reining in the sensationalism and stuff. Not everyone's as morally sound or has the professional world like holding them accountable. And your series where you look through TikToks is probably the best example of some of the more extreme opinions that are out there. Sure. And do you think overall that financial influencers are a net positive or Or do you think that the world would be a better place without them?

52:10We lose a plain bagel, but we get rid of all the shite. Yeah, I think if it would be a net benefit to get rid of them, I don't believe so. I think there are a lot of issues in the space, as there are with any kind of social media space. But I do think there are benefits. And, you know, I think people laugh at the idea of getting information from TikTok on how to invest or even YouTube on what stocks look into. But there was a CFA study that showed that, like, for Gen Z, especially younger generations, half of Gen Z individuals roughly, at least in North America, get their information on investing from social media or inform part of their decisions from social media.

52:56and I think it was around a third of Gen Z investors started investing because of social media. So to me, that stands out as a clear benefit. And really, the only reason why there's demand, I would say, for this type of content in finance on social media is because there have been failings on the other side in traditional finance. And I think that's kind of the nuanced perspective on it is there are issues in social media finance, but there are also a lot of issues with traditional finance. And so the benefits do sort of complement the failings of the other side in a way where I think, say we don't have social media, I think you have less information that's freely available.

53:42You have more stuff that call it pay gated in a way where you only learn about ETFs and things like that by paying a professional versus being able to research that kind of stuff and learn more about it. And it's an accessibility thing as well, right? If you could only get financial advice or information through a professional, well, all of a sudden, a lot of people just can't afford that and will no longer have access to that. So there's a lot of room for improvement on the social media side. And I think, you know, especially when it comes to like crypto scams and stuff, it's pretty blatant at times how bad it can get.

54:17And I think that unfortunately paints the whole area with a broad brush and makes everyone else look pretty bad. But I do think there are clear benefits. And I think if we can find that right balance of, you know, the free share, you know, freedom of information and sharing information while either holding people accountable for what they say or otherwise aligning incentives so that the best information is what gets circulated, I think we can take what's been a benefit to some extent for investors and make it much better. My partner, I asked her, what's the hardest part about getting started investing?

54:56She's only done property before, not the stock market. And she said the knowledge, not having the knowledge and then fear of losing money. But then my other friend to invest and watch all these finance YouTubers, he's like, the hardest part is, like he said, not jumping on the hype train, but knowing which of these jokers to trust. He didn't use the word jokers, but I'm trying to not swear on the podcast. So he said, I don't know which of these YouTube jokers to trust. How can you tell what's a good Finfluencer and a bad Finfluencer? Are there any tips you would recommend? Yeah, I think there's a few things you can look at.

55:30One is considering the incentives. Um, so, you know, are they trying to sell something that is shady when they're giving you information? Um, are they saying stuff that, that is going to get them a lot of views versus necessarily being good information? Uh, so considering incentives is one and how the person gets paid for the information they give you, um, considering someone's experience and education in the space and whether you can verify that education and experience, you know, it's funny how many TikTokers you come across who will say, you know, as an ex hedge fund manager, and they look like they're 20, like 20 years old.

56:06And it's like, okay, well, I don't know how verifiable that is. But, you know, it's easy to verify the information. And the third thing is, and actually, I think I'm borrowing this from the CFA study that I talked about earlier, because they highlight some recommendations for the space. But the third one is, is the information easy to see elsewhere? Is it consistent with other sources? Basically saying, can you cross check the information to verify it? And, you know, I think the biggest benefit of social media is to learn about the concepts of investing rather than to use social media to get your stock picks.

56:44You know, it's like the teach a man to fish versus giving him a fish. And I think there are a lot of issues with kind of just getting stock picks from social media. But if you're someone who wants to invest in individual stocks, there's a common saying of do your own research. And I take that quite literally. I think you should not invest in individual stocks that you're pulling from recommendations of whether it be a Finfluencer or even someone on CNBC who's talking about the next big AI stock or whatever. I think you see the same issues with stock picks in newer methods of media versus older channels.

57:18So I think what's more important is focusing on people who teach the concepts rather than the stock picks. I think there's room to talk about stock research and stuff. And I even highlight to a lot of people, I talk to a lot of students in finance. And I say, like, if you're comfortable doing so, I say post your amateur research online and get feedback on it. so long as you highlight that's amateur research. So I think there's a benefit to sharing information and getting feedback and using social media to do research in some avenues. But when you find someone who's saying that this position's, giving these promises of a position that's going to 10X or has the potential to 10X and kind of giving, essentially what's a get-rich-quick scheme, but stock version, I think that's a red flag that you should be looking elsewhere.

58:10You know, it's a nice thought that the cream will rise to the top, that people will ignore the sensationalism and they'll cut through things. But you talk about incentives. We know the incentives are so high for people who scam people. Do you think the regulators need to step in? Do you think there's a world where it can be regulated or should be regulated in any way? It's tough because I think there's room for regulation. I think it has to be done properly. And I wouldn't say I'm the expert to consult on that. I think there's room for some regulation in terms of marketing. You know, when it comes to, and I think we've seen a bit of a crackdown in some areas.

58:51I know there have been some courses that have been charged, at least in the United States, for over-promising and things like that. But, you know, I think there needs to be, again, an alignment of incentives or some form of putting accountability on people for the things they claim online, where if someone claims that their course is going to make you rich or something like that, that there's a tangible form of accountability for that. Because I think the issue is that a lot of people use sort of general terms to kind of beat around the bush and dodge whatever laws do exist. And I think the laws we currently have also give a lot of exemptions based on historical cases that aren't really applicable to today.

59:38So in the United States, for example, the whole financial advice regulation, you know, you see a lot of people, they'll post, here are my top 10 stocks to pick, hashtag not financial advice. What's funny in the United States is that the law, seemingly the precedent that's ruling over whether people like that allows people to effectively post online and share any sort of financial advice they want is an old case that revolved around a newsletter that someone was disseminating. And basically, they argued that a newsletter is not a form of financial advice, because it's too general. It's not considering an individual.

1:00:14It's not going up to John and saying, John, I think you should buy this stock. You're sending out a general recommendation. But that set the precedent where you might not be able to tell one person to buy stock, But technically, telling a whole crowd of people to buy a stock is not considered financial advice in the United States. So I think there needs to be sort of a fine tuning of laws to consider those gaps that have existed based on old precedent. But it's tough to say what the right approach is, right? And I think it has to be a gradual movement towards figuring out what the right balance there is.

1:00:47Because I think if you go too far, you crack down a bit too intensely. and I was speaking to there's a channel new money in Australia and Australia has been an area where there's been more of a crackdown in terms of requiring finfluencers to actually get a degree of registration before they post any sort of finance content online so I don't know if that's the right approach but I think it's an area that shows kind of the dichotomy of less regulation like you see in the United States for example versus a more intense regulatory framework and then comparing, well, how does that affect the areas that we're observing?

1:01:23Yeah. And it's also, how do you, you said that the traditional world has issues because it's regulated and that creates incentives and needs to have clients with certain levels of capital. And then on the other hand, you've got someone like Kramer or some, you know, like you've got CNBC say, where people are literally talking about individual companies all the time. So I don't think it's just an influencer or influencer in the sense of, you know, YouTubers and TikTokers. It's a whole financial media question, I would say, you know, broadly. I agree with that. I think, you know, the exact same laws we look to apply to Finfluencers need to apply to the oldest Finfluencers we have, which are the, you know, the CNBC talking heads and things of that sort.

1:02:03And, you know, especially when it comes to that, like you have issues with conflicts of interest and things like that. So I think part of it is cracking down on disclosures and enforcing disclosures as well, where if you have a position, like if you're going to talk about finances, there's more clear disclosure about where your interests are. And if there's regulation around, if you're a part owner in a business, you should disclose that if you're giving stock picks about that position. So yeah, it's definitely something that needs to be applied on all fronts fairly. I think, or if you're taking like a backhand, or you're like, buy this stock or buy this crypto and they're paying you, they're giving you that crypto, you should have to declare it.

1:02:44I've seen that, right? I see it all the time. On YouTubers, they talk about, they're like, it's sponsored by this oil company. And then there's an SEC declaration that they got paid 10 grand to mention it. I'm like, this is super odd. You know, they're like literally talking about a random oil miner or oil discovery business and then declaring how much they got paid. So yeah, it does exist. You know, what's interesting is in Canada too, the few times I've seen a YouTube video sponsored by a publicly traded stock, meaning that they're quite literally saying this video is brought to you by ticker whatever like here's why you should invest uh had been for oil gas and mining companies yeah it's very bizarre it's always the exploration stuff as well which is kind of like a coin right you know they've got some good leads yeah that's it it's a high risk industry very capital intensive and high risk which to me, whether you would call it fraudulent is questionable, but it's definitely very sketchy in the sense of, it's similar to cryptocurrency marketing where it's like, well, we have the potential to do really well and here's why you should invest.

1:03:53But they don't often have a solid business, which is probably why they're advertising on YouTube. A pump and dump in every sense of the word, but they might not actually find the oil. They just try and boost the price. Oh, we didn't find any. Look, I'm fully aware that first of all, you're on your lunch break and that Tamayn has a train to catch. So I don't want to keep you much longer. But I just wanted to say thank you so much for your time and for being the voice that you are within finance, because I think you are the example. You set the example and have raised the bar across the board. There was an old guard that I think you've replaced.

1:04:27And like I said, you've raised the standard in terms of quality and information and just being balanced, which is lovely. I appreciate that. And thank you. It was a fun conversation. And yeah, thanks for having me on.

1:04:59money is at risk with investing and other fees may apply as with everything financial please do your own research we really encourage that because no one cares more about your money than you i'm damo i'm t this was an episode of making money from our company most it was filmed and edited by the team at flow spire jack and ben it was produced by ruth edwards and brought together by will stoloman what about ruth and toothless a dog yeah shout out them too

1:05:29Thank you.