What will the world look like in 2050?

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29:58That's vanta.com forward slash making money. There's a link in the description though, so you can just click that. The problem is that immigration is seen as a negative thing by many people. And I think the politicians serve that narrative because it helps them, right? Win votes. I think it's perfectly reasonable for any country to choose who it wants. The type of immigrants, yes. It wants to have talented people who will work hard. There's a little worry there, by the way. Are we denuding, wrong word, taking too many talented people from the emerging world? But it's their choice. And money gets sent back.

30:39Did you know, and I discovered a new fact just the other day. Did you know the largest single source of funds from the developed world to the emerging world is not official aid. That's tiny. It's not foreign direct investment, quite big, not portfolio investment. The largest single source, but half the total, is immigrants remittances. Western Union, isn't it? And also, yeah, lots of – there's a whole business on remittance. There's so many different companies like Western Union. It's huge. Just literally posting cash back, basically. It's huge. Anyway, so, and not only does the money go back, skills go back, you know.

31:15Okay, so it's building a house, but that's a house that doesn't require local savings to build. So, yeah. So I think it's possible to manage migration well. You want people who want to be honest about it. You want people to come and work. You want people who you can create good lives for their families. because you don't want people who come and beat us up. You know, like the jobs we need is the point. Because high skill, people say, oh, bring all the engineers here. But actually, we might need care workers or we might need whatever. And I think if the politicians came out and said, here's the list of jobs that we need.

31:55If you want one of these jobs, come and get them. If not, we're going to go and get some people that can do them because otherwise no one's going to look after you down in a care home. That's exactly what I think too. Politicians need to be honest. Give the data. Give people the data and then people make up their own minds. You said that the UK kind of needs to change how it thinks about itself. So what do you mean by that? And how do you think we think about ourselves now? And where do you think we need to go to improve? So look, I think we don't acknowledge our strengths. We have this thing about private schools, which, well, I went to one.

32:33So you could say I would say that. but I was brought up in Ireland and my parents saved every penny they could have to send me a private school. And by the way, that's another thing. If you come to this country with the clothes, I was born here, if you come to this country with the clothes you stand up in, you know, as I did when I was 22, you know, you think it might be all right. They'll give you some opportunities. And I therefore feel grateful to the country for having been given this opportunity. I had a British passport but I hadn't actually been here much until I was hardly at all, until I was 22.

33:08So there. I think we just need to see ourselves not in some sort of stupid post-imperial place or feeling upset about our past. We've done some bad things, done some good things, you know. That says everyone, every country in the world. I think we should just recognise ourselves in what we are, a really interesting place, trying to do the right thing most of the time, and an integral part of the Anglosphere, led by America. We shouldn't have any ideas that we are special to America. We're not at all. Not the special relationship, you mean? No. But we're useful to them, and it'll be transactional, and that's fine.

33:57You know, if they want something from us, we find out what we want from them. It's fine. Who were in the Anglosphere? Oh, gosh. Well, there's two Anglospheres. Okay. There's the narrow Anglosphere, which is us, led by America, us, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. And then there's the wider one, which is Singapore, Scandinavia. English. Very, very importantly, Nigeria and much of Africa. There's India. The Indian subcontinent, actually, is associated with the Anglosphere. And there are other countries which are part of the Commonwealth, which English was more recent additions to it, which are, in a sense, associate members of the Anglican.

34:56But it's a loose concept. It's people who use English and look at the same films and enjoy the fact that wherever they go in the world, there is someone probably who can understand them. I think we should think of the English-speaking world as something special. And I think it will...

35:20there is no we have different aims different prospects different political systems I mean US Australia Canada New Zealand you know we're different but actually if you look at where the people want to migrate to the earlier point it's actually within the English speaking world I was just going to say But in the Anglosphere, do you think that it's your prediction for the future that we start working closer together with the other English-speaking countries? Where it suits us and where it suits them. No formal agreement. Nothing specific. On the other hand, on a sort of ad hoc basis, we get together and say, look, we've got to get together.

36:09and as it was with AUKUS, you know, if Australia wanted nuclear submarines, you know, well, you know, we're American, we've got them and we can help you get them. Is that the kind of collaboration? Can you think of any other ways that you might think these are ways that the Anglosphere could collaborate? I don't think we should try and make it specific. I don't think we need to. I don't think we should have any ambition for it. And the wider Anglosphere, by the way, with the Commonwealth, we should have no ambitions at all, except that actually maybe we should fast-track top-end Indian graduates to come here and work here because actually a closer relationship with Indian high-tech industry would be to our advantage and indeed to theirs.

37:02So that's something that we can perhaps work to. So it's ad hoc. And there's no sentiment. It's just the fact that you talk the same language and most of the time think very broadly in the same way. In the world's largest democracy, India, you know, speaks English. Yeah, and in a world where China is, people are unsure, India has a lot of the same characteristics in terms of a large population base and these kind of things. And that, by the way, raises another really interesting thing. And this is, you know, the pecking order of one, two, three in 2050. We know who the three are. It'll be the US, it'll be China, it'll be India.

37:50I'm not totally sure of the order. I mean, I think, and this is really new, I mean, not in the book at all. I think it's not totally impossible that India could be a larger economy than China by 2050, not 2050, 2070, because China population going down so fast. You said they might have some border disputes. Well, you're absolutely right. That's a good book. They don't get along with each other very well on the eastern border. You're absolutely right. One thing that I found really interesting from the book was you pointing out that actually this idea that the West is the superior part of the world or that it's quite new.

38:29And actually it's bookmarked by Asian dominance. We've always lived in a kind of an Asian world. And, you know, we've emerged for 100 years and we might revert back to that. I think we go some way back to that inevitably. I really do. and that, I hope, counters a bit of our arrogance, actually. Do you think the West is arrogant then? Yeah. Yeah. I don't like it. But do you think the UK has a right to be arrogant? Because we're like a small little island and like you said, we've got the Anglosphere and we've got such impact in the world and we have the whole British Empire. Isn't it, for such a small nation...

39:09You're only as good as your last game, mate. You can't be saying that. If we were American, we did what we'd done. We'd be like, okay, we expected you to. You're huge. But like Little Island, you know, we turn out a lot of doctors. We've got good universities and all these things. My answer to this is the journalist one. You're only as good as your last story, you know. We're very lucky. We're in a very lucky position, but we just need to lift our game. We need to be honest about the things we're not very good at. I don't think we're good enough at the things we're – I don't think we're honest enough at the things we're not good at.

39:40Yeah. And we need to do that too. Who needs to be honest? Politicians, do you think? Is that where that comes from? Oh, gosh. I think the press needs to be honest. Good luck with that. You've got a lot more chance of the politicians being honest in the press. Yeah. I think it starts with politics. And I don't like the partisan nature of politics at all. We've seen the stupidity of partisan nature in the past few months. A new government comes in, says everything is terrible. Actually, some things were not very good and some things were okay, but everybody only said the terrible bits. So then you suddenly, everyone says, oh, Christ, it's awful.

40:26So you're not confident. That's not very clever. You need to be honest. Some things are good, some things are bad. Do you think politicians are less honest today than they were in the past? no i mean not much when we talk about america um yeah sure it's not great uh but you look at the periods of the past of american politics and they've been pretty pretty run presidents they've had in the past you know so what why what changes within that system then to improve it if they're always just dishonest all systems go to swing too far uh and the liberal elite in america swung too far uh and it just got detached from what ordinary people thought um trump was created by the arrogance of the american liberal elite created the space for him to come in from time one.

41:30He behaved appallingly after the election. People said, look, we'd rather have that than the snootiness of the liberal elite. We'd rather have that. We'd rather have people, you know, and we all behave a bit badly at times. So it will pull back. I really am. I'm really confident about America. What about the UK? Do you think the UK has a bit of swings? Well, look, we've had a very difficult time. We had the difficult decision of the split over Europe. We had one prime minister who couldn't do the job. Some might argue we had more than one prime minister who couldn't do it. I was going to say which one.

42:12We had one prime minister. We had the trust episode. We spectacularly couldn't do the job. Got rid of him in less than two months. I mean, that's not bad. So the system held together.

42:27we had one lot that ran out of ideas and we have the other lot in you know the system is is more or less working okay and this lot doesn't work then they'll be got rid of and we have something else i want to talk about another system then i want to talk about finances and the threats there because i think it's hyper relevant to the audience if i sit here now and i say like what of the big concerns on the horizon. One thing for me would be pensions and pension savings and a shift away from defined benefit schemes to auto-enrollment. Is it enough? Have people got enough? And there's a generation of 40, 50-year-olds who have not got either benefit and what are they going to do?

43:07So what do you think your predictions are for people's retirements leading up to 2050? Well, can I just say, first of all, I think what you're doing, focusing on all this, is great. Thank you. I really do. I think what the newspapers do in their personal finance sections is pretty darn good, too. I just think we just need much more education of everybody. You know, and the thing that really bugs me is people saying, well, I can't be bothered with pensions. You know. They're a scam. I hear that a lot. I mean, that's a hangover from probably when you were, like, in the 90s or 80s. When was it? The raiding on corporate pensions and BHS, was it?

43:57Robert Maxwell didn't help much matters either. No, I know. So by the 2050, we'll be pushing, currently we'll be at state pension age. We won't be by then, but we would certainly be within shot of going, okay, state pension. Yeah. So do you think it'll exist? I think state pension continues. I think you can fix it quite well by pushing up the retirement age. And not just the official retirement age, but getting more and more 50-somethings who are thinking of retiring early to keeping them in the workforce. And that's a longevity thing. And there's a lot of work going on about this. You'd be closer to this probably than I am.

44:43Just making sure that people don't fall out of the workforce, have the skills, have the attitudes. And, you know, a 55-year, why should I change? Well, you know, because you will be healthier if you change a bit and have a job. Yeah. You'll be healthy. You'll certainly be wealthier, but you'll also be healthier. You'll have more interest in better of your general views. So I think that that's something that will be a lot of work to go on. And the actual maths are if we manage to push up the state retirement age, another two or three years, along with longevity, then actually all the numbers start to look much more manageable.

45:27Yeah, the people in their 50s that are economically inactive, what you start to then get into is social care, health care. As in like, if you're needing to leave work to look after your parents because it's so expensive to put me in a care home, you've got to fix that problem, haven't you? You've got to make it more affordable to care for people, essentially. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's more affordable care and ways of helping people make decisions that are better both in social and human terms than not just financial terms. Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of finances, then, what about forecast for the market?

46:00Are you willing to sit here and predict where the market will be in 2050? Not financial advice, people.

46:10Well, we know a lot about what's happened to asset prices in the past. We know the returns you get on equities in different markets. We know the returns from property. We know the returns from fixed interest securities and so on. And we've got a run that goes back over 100 years. One of the runs goes back, oh gosh, the old BZW one, Barclays one, goes back I think 150 years. So we know a lot about what happens to asset prices. And we know that through world wars, through the depression of the 30s, through the great inflation of the 70s, through the zero interest rate stuff that we've had. We know a lot about it.

47:04And we know that if you save, the magic of compound interest will, over a 40-year period or a 50-year period, mean that you get a positive return on those savings in real terms. And you can then say, okay, how do you slice it? And I don't know what your view is, but my view is that you don't put all your eggs in one basket.

47:41The best marker, the most positive thing is global equities. Told you, mate. Damo's doing a little internal dance right now. He loves his... Well, just because the S &P's been so dominant, right? But it's eggs in a basket and there's no guarantee. And then you could have a debate. You know, are you half in global equities? You've got to think of your own property. You're in the UK property market. You should own a home. You have exposure through owning a home. You need something there. You may want some short-term fixed interest stuff because you're going to need the income and you may need the money in another year's time or something.

48:22But I think you just don't be clever. And you probably want to play around a bit. And if you're brilliant at some kind of collecting, then sure, do that. If you know Lego inside out kind of thing. Well, exactly. Or if you're into vintage cars. But do you think the forces that have driven global equities up over the last 100 years will persist. Because one thing I see is like, you know, there's a lot of discussion, Goldman Sachs recently, lower expected returns over the next decade, these kind of arguments. And I think this can, people always worry like, oh God, I'm too late. It's, you know, the best is behind us.

49:02So you go down from a 70 allocation to a 45 allocation, 45 allocation, you know, maybe. What else do you do? You know. Yeah, I think this is a key point, like where else you're going to put your money? Where else you're going to put your money? And I think that the key message, I mean, in the book, I worry about we will lose money, we will lose fiat money, and we will go to something else. Well, you talked about broad exposure there a second ago. I mean, you should have some gold probably. Yeah. Probably. Okay. Not now maybe, but, you know, you should have some gold. You said global equities, property, gold.

49:39Why not a bit of Bitcoin then? Why not as part of your broad exposure? 5 % of your money in gold, 1 % in crypto, or 5 % in crypto. But don't be silly. No. Always be aware that - Don't look at me. I don't know what I'm doing. 75%. You know what you're doing when it's up? When it's down, you stay real quiet. Real humble. But I mean, I think the big bet that I make is that the market economy will broadly continue for the next 25 years. The world will keep turning. The world will keep turning. There will be many opportunities in the emerging world because it becomes more important. But you shouldn't be silly about it because there are governance issues and there are all sorts of other issues there.

50:28But it keeps coming back to compound interest and being aware that inflation may be quite a bit higher over the next few years than the markets expect, which tilts one back towards property and equities. And I mean, if you can find a way into it, private equity too. For someone buying, say, like a global equity fund then, where they're just betting on the world turning, market capitalization weighted, so that 65 % of that is going to be in America anyway. Do you think that's the kind of equity investment that is okay for people? Or do you think that going forward now, they need to be a little bit more deliberate about what they buy?

51:12I don't know. I'd love to be able to give you a very clear steer on it, but I can't. I think what I would say is you can have a strategy that is global equities, which I think is broadly the right strategy. You're allowed, however, to say, look, I do think America is overvalued at the moment vis-a-vis other markets, even allowing for everything. And I think the dollar is overvalued vis-a-vis other currencies, even allowing for everything. So, OK, I'm going to shade down that proportion of investment in America a bit. I'm not going to dump it. But, you know, you're allowed to say, I would rather have more in the UK or more in Sterling, given that the footsie is, poor old footsie, is at least, you know, about 80 % of the revenues come from outside the UK.

52:19You can say, at the moment, I would like to have more in Europe, because I believe Europe is underpriced at the moment. You can say, I would like to have more in the emerging world, despite the bumpiness of returns and really very disappointing over the last 10 years. I think there's a decent chance that it's... But you don't diverge too far from the norm. You don't try and be clever. You can tilt a bit. Yeah. Dial it down, dial it up slightly. Yeah. You know. And accept you'll get things wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And still have exposure to everything because you get that broad diversification. But you look at Warren Buffett, you know, who's had, who's not got into some high tech, didn't get into, has done all right.

53:05He bought Apple at a good time, didn't he? He bought Apple at a good time. Even though people said he was late when he got involved. Yeah, I know. You know, but he's not perfect. No. More he's just been consistent in the market for a long period of time. That's probably it. Exactly. And you don't bet against America as he, you know, you don't bet against it. Yeah, I think, you know, for me, the thing I encounter through my audience the most is an obsession with the best. And I think like, no, you know, just be in the market consistently long term and chances are you'll be okay. And go and be the best at what you do in your day job and improve your income, you know.

53:41Exactly. And save. And save in a tax efficient way. Yeah. You know, you're buying, you know, if you're on a 40%, what are you? you're buying 10 apples for the price of six. Yeah, you're getting that return instantly going into your pension. So that's giving you a lot of buffer. The market could drop 50 % and you're still... You're not down very much. You could drop 30 % and you're still ahead. I know exactly. And so I just think that it isn't exactly get rich slow. It's get comfortably off slow.

54:23and probably also find some way, as you get older, of going on contributing to the economy, ideally for money, in some way or other. Stay economically active beyond the age of retirement. Stay economically active. This is not against people who want to play golf. You want to play golf, that's fine. you know, but actually there are ways of being more useful to society. Yeah. And if you can make money out of it, then that's even better. My granddad always used to say to me, my friends all retired and they died, so I'm going to work until the day I die. He worked until he was about 85. Really? Yeah, yeah.

55:07I mean - What was he doing? He was like the local scout leader in an admin role and things. When I say work, the level of like work dropped. Yeah, yeah. But he was still very active. Yeah. And then he was working at his job and he went from, you know, very senior to kind of like an administration role within it. He stopped and he just deteriorated really quickly. Like the kind of the mental, like the cognitive side, his cognition drops really quickly. He was old. He was 89 by the time he died. Yeah. But. You're allowed to retire when you're, you know, approaching 89. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but no, but I mean, you saw it in him instantly.

55:45His fitness and his mental sharpness just declined. And I'm not saying that people shouldn't retire, but I do think this is really important of like, if you want, we know that longevity improves. I mean, we've had a dip because of COVID, but how you measure it, the long-term trend inside this. It's reasonable to expect it'll creep up again. Yeah, but there's this period of very ill health for people and it's like longevity with conditions of bed bound And those who stay fit and active are mentally sharp, tend to have a better... Yeah. And the more that people who can be active are active, the more resources available then for people who really can't, who have to be in a wheelchair for whatever.

56:27So one's actually doing something useful for, not just for oneself, but for society as a whole. I'd like to talk about longevity a bit as well, because I think it's like a stereotypical 36-year-old male. you'd be like oh my god i might die one day and i've become obsessed with health fitness and living forever um because i really don't want to die yeah uh so you know what you mean what does it feel like from uh from the age of 81 are you 81 yeah i'm 81 well look how sharp you are i'm gonna keep going you know come on i'm gonna keep all right i've got it you know when i leave i've got to do a couple hundred words for the eye on on stormer you know what is it a reset yeah but But you're 81, that's blown my mind because you see.

57:08I've got to keep going. Yeah, yeah. But this is the point. So what do you think around longevity in terms of healthcare developments and like, am I going to live forever because I really don't want to die? I think that the great trick will be how do you keep people active for longer? How do you improve general health rather than how do you fix an emergency when it happens. And so much of our healthcare is going into fixing something when it goes wrong. Sick care, not healthcare. Sick care, right. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. I hadn't heard that. Yeah. And how do you stop it going wrong in the first place?

57:54And I think AI will help in that. If you have this mass of data, which we will have, which we are increasingly do have, an AI can sort it out, it may well be that we can actually make a radical improvement to people's health before they start to get ill. Yeah. So, you know, as part of my study into longevity, I look at the kind of things like the levers that people can pull that make a meaningful difference. Sleep, diet, walk 10 ,000 steps. These kinds of things are like, they're like the biggest things that an individual can do to improve their longevity. And like getting enough steps, it can be as simple as I have like a wearable ring and those devices and it just goes get moving do some steps do you mean like those little nudges and that could improve overall health massively and reduce the pressure on the NHS absolutely just by people not well the 10 ,000 step thing is a lovely round number and um and I I try and do it yeah you said within the book that you think within 2040 that the financial system could have another sort of great depression moment yeah I I I think, as an economist, we know there is an economic cycle.

59:06We know it goes up, goes down, goes up, goes down. We've just had a humdinger of a recession, artificially created because of the pandemic. We had another one 10 years earlier, 2009, because of the banking crisis. We had one, well, we had in America, not here, a downturn at 2000.com, one in the early 90s, one in the early 80s. So I say when people say, well, you know, what's going to happen the next few years? I say there will be a downturn in 2030. It won't be in 2030. It might be in 2032. But there will be some sort of downturn happening. Unless you believe we've escaped from the economic cycle.

59:54We definitely haven't. I don't think so. They're part of your feature. So I think what we're doing is I think we've got a mid-cycle pause at the moment. But, you know, I don't. And so I think there will be a downturn. How serious? I have no idea. What will it be? It could be associated with governments being overborrowed and, you know, interest rates jacking up to, you know, 8 % on government debt or something. It could be anything. I don't know what it's going to be. another return of inflate. It could be anything. But I think there is a cycle and we should just accept that and get on with it.

1:00:31It's almost an easy prediction to make, isn't it? It's like there will be a crash or there will be a crash. Yeah. And I can give you a four-year window, 28 to 32. Yeah. And people love hearing that. They don't love it. They're worried about it. So if you predict a crash, you know, like they listen. But it may not be that bad a crash. And if you are, you know, if you are, and it won't be universal, if you're broadly spread, you have assets that your asset numbers go down for two or three years. On a 40-year or even 50-year investment cycle, being down a couple of years is a matter. Yeah. 28 to 32 is very specific.

1:01:15Well, I mean, you know, I'm just saying every 10 years or so. Yeah, but you need to nail the dates, don't you? Because if you're making a book where you predict in 2050, if you go, in the next 20 years, there'll probably be something that happens. You have a bit of luck sometimes. And I think I was lucky saying there would be a populist revolution in America against the liberal elite, Hollywood and all that, probably in the second decade of the century. And it happened in 16. I mean, you sometimes will hit things on the nose. You will sometimes be wrong. You know, you will be wrong. And I think in finance, the comfort I take is this very long view of what's happened to asset prices over the past 150 years.

1:02:10And unless you believe something's going to be really different in the next 25 years than it has been in the past couple of hundred or nearly 200 years, then I think, you know, you can actually take comfort from that and just not worry about the cycle too much. And there'll be times when things go quite mad. And it is possible there will be a madness in American equities in the next 18 months. And if it really gets mad, then perhaps you take a bit of profit, take a bit of money off the table. And are you overall optimistic about the future leading up to 2050?

1:02:54Yes. Yes. I think I'm realistic. I think we have a difficult time to get through now. the next decade or so because of the tensions that are existing, particularly between China and America, but also other tensions, the next tension will probably be in India and China. And, of course, the tensions of what do you do with Russia. So I think those tensions are not going to get better over the next five, ten years.

1:03:40I think we have to get through that period calmly. And if we get through that period, which I think the balance of probability is overwhelmingly we will without something truly dreadful that just makes everything I've written about look ridiculous happening. I think if we get through that period, then I think we can look forward to a calmer period beyond that, where the really big issues will be probably concerning the environment in Africa, sub -Saharan Africa. Does sub-Saharan Africa really start to close the gap with the rest of the world? Can we, within the foreseeable future, I don't say eliminate poverty, but at least crush it down so it only affects a relatively small proportion of the world's population?

1:04:34So I think we have a difficult period to get through and then a calmer one beyond. Now, is this right? No, there'll be information that comes along that is either more positive or more negative over the next few years. that means we have to course correct and say, okay, we were worrying about that. That isn't a worry. We weren't worrying about this. It didn't come on our radar. My word, we have to figure out how to fix it. And there may be something that comes up that is just totally off our radar at the moment. if you say to me what it is I have no idea but I think you always have to keep your ear cocked for

1:05:27look it could be we're not alone in the universe you know I think so but you have to I mentioned the possibility we've got to keep our ear cocked for something that is just just off the scale of our expectations

1:05:43and then deal with it sort of calmly and sensibly. I take quite a lot of comfort with the way the world dealt with the pandemic. Big pharma, governments, the universities. I thought, you know, huge hit. And we're not helped by the fact that it's not still, we don't know exactly what happened. I think we know, don't we? You mentioned in your book that if it comes out that it was created in a lab in China, that might cause a bit of friction. A bit of friction. But what scared me is you also said that Russia might have an environmental disaster, like another Chernobyl. I'm worried about that. Yeah.

1:06:25I'm worried about that. You're worried about that? Yeah. Yeah, slightly terrifying. I know, absolutely. And of course you're worried about the Middle East, worried about India, Pakistan. There are lots of flashpoints. What worries me most of all is something happening that isn't in any of my flashpoints, you know. And if you say, okay, well, you read that book, the hardback, a couple of years ago. I had to clear the page proofs for the hardback three days after Russia invaded Ukraine. and what do you do well you can't do very much at that stage uh but my number three worry i finished with 10 worries 10 positives three was actually russia might do something totally outrageous so what i did was just slip in we don't this has happened we did this my great fear is this this may already be happening already.

1:07:32And then in the paperback, I didn't change it very much because I felt I wasn't being honest. I still didn't know the outcome. I didn't know, wasn't being honest with the reader, if you change your view. And then the Middle East, I mean, I think, I can't remember, number eight worry, number seven worry, was the Middle East would become truly unstable. We lurched towards that. So two of my big worries within the very short life of this book have already burst out, and some of the others will as well. Does that destroy the whole view? Well, no, I come back to where I began. We're on this journey.

1:08:15We can't get off it. We've got to try and, as new information comes in, we've got to try and process that and understand it. and then we have to hope that society pulls well enough together, global society, to cope with it.

1:08:34Please remember, this is not financial advice. Like we say a lot on the podcast, investments can fall and rise. In fact, it's pretty much a guarantee. Past performance is no guarantee of future results. So your money is at risk with investing and other fees may apply. As with everything financial, please do your own research. We really encourage that because no one cares more about your money than you. I'm Damo. Banti. This was an episode of Making Money from Our Company Most. It was filmed and edited by the team at Flow Spire, Jack and Ben. It was produced by Ruth Edwards and brought together by Will Stallman.

1:09:04What about Ruth and Toothless a Dog? Yeah, shout out them too.