Your Worst Mistake Doesn't Define You: A Story of Accountability and Redemption with Michael V. Crismali

0:00If you've ever worked with someone who creates chaos, plays the victim, and blames everyone else, then this podcast is for you. So here's your host, Adam Holbrook.

0:19Welcome to the Managing Difficult People podcast. I am your host, Adam Holbrook. The reason I started the Managing Difficult People podcast, I was noticing that there's so much conflict and divide in this country. I was noticing that there's so many people throwing themselves under the bus and self-sabotaging themselves. And I'm noticing that the mental health crisis in this country is growing. And I said, maybe I can create a place, a safe place where people can come and listen to my story, listen to my guest stories, and maybe, just maybe, they can gain some awareness of what's holding them back in their own lives and how to move forward.

1:03My guest today is Michael Chris Molle. I met Michael about two months ago at a public speaking Toastmasters club meeting. And he was a speaker. And I got to tell you, he blew me away. He's a phenomenal speaker. And I found out he had just released his book, My Name Is. So I decided to purchase the book. And oh my, this book, you got to get your hands on this book, is the most vulnerable book that I have ever read. No kidding. Michael has been a respected person of the community for many, many years. And then there was a major public fallout where Michael was the treasurer of his fire department.

1:51And he started stealing money from the fire department, tens of thousands of dollars. And he writes about it in his book. Now, before you have a judgment here, listen to this. We all have skeletons in our closet. We all have things that we've buried deep, deep in the closet in a box that's sealed up. And then we just try to move through the motions of life. Or we come forward and we tell people about what happened. And then all of a sudden we're trying to rebuild our character. Well, Michael turned himself into the authorities. He isn't denying that this happened. He isn't taking the rap and saying that I'm a better person and this wasn't who I was.

2:38He's saying I publicly messed up for a very, very long time. I'm going to reclaim myself and rebuild my life. That's what his book is about. It's about we are not the person that we were of the past, but we are who we are moving forward. Michael Krismali is an author, speaker, and mental health advocate whose work centers on identity, accountability, and redemption. Beyond his professional work, he's a proud father, son, brother, and friend who places deep value on family, connection, and the people who have stood beside him through every season of life. After a deeply public fallout forced him to confront the difference between reputation and character, Michael began rebuilding with greater honesty, vulnerability, and self-awareness.

3:33His book, My Name Is, reclaims that journey and introduces the Reclaim Framework, a practical path for moving beyond the shame and rebuilding a meaningful life. Today, he uses this story to help others speak openly about their struggles, seek support, and understand that the past does not have to determine what happens next. Please welcome to the Managing Difficult People podcast, Michael Chris Molle. Wow. Adam, what an intro. Thank you so much for having me. I've been looking forward to this, and I can't wait to dig in. Thank you so much. Michael, the audience is on the edge of their seats right now.

4:14They want to hear that story, how it started. You stole this money from the fire department. How did that take place? Why did it take place? Be vulnerable with us. Oh man, where to begin? So first of all, the thing to understand is that the person that I was at that time was definitely someone who I was respected in the community. I had a wife and a child and basically I wanted to be someone that people could depend on. And that was very important to me. It's sort of like where I built my identity. What ended up happening in very plain terms was, yes, I was sitting as the treasurer for my department.

5:00I had been the treasurer for many years. No incident whatsoever. And then, what's the term they say? Life got lifey. Because what ultimately ended up happening was, I started to have very significant personal issues. My world was quite literally crumbling around me. My marriage was falling apart. My daughter was dealing with some fairly significant issues, medical issues that were really weighing heavy on me. The other thing is I was working, as I always had, as a 100 % commissioned employee doing in the financial arena, in the mortgage arena. And here's the thing you need to know, for anyone that's working in that type of environment, is you really have to stay laser focused on separating the personal from the business.

5:46Because when you're 100 % commissioned, if you don't produce, you don't get paid. and I was dealing with such trauma, if you will, that that line became blurred and I was no longer successful as I had been before in terms of separating the two. And so ultimately, that's where the financial burden started to come in. Now, I want to stress something as I tell this, though. None of this excuses what I did, and I want to make sure that's really, really clear. In fact, the only reason that I ever started telling this part of the story about the troubles that I was going on was because when the story hit the news cycle, it reduced me to a headline and frankly made me sound like a monster.

6:28And eventually what I decided was that the fuller story needed to be told. And it wasn't to erase the accountability, but it was to provide a little context. And again, no excuse for what I did, but I think the point that I was trying to make to people was it didn't happen because I was buying vacations and diamond rings. It happened because in my mind, I was trying to keep the walls from closing in. So the context didn't cancel the accountability, but accountability shouldn't require to erase someone's entire humanity, which is one of the reasons I started, you know, giving some of the context and some of the circumstances.

7:10I can relate to the straight commission positions. It is a lot on your mental health, the ups and the downs in life. And you're in a situation where your marriage is crumbling. You have a lot going on with your family. So now you're sitting there as the treasurer of the fire department. What was the first thing, the first step that you did? Because this doesn't just come up one day and say, I'm going to do this. How did that first time happen? Because I'm sure reading the book, I know it happens multiple times through. What was that first time like? Did you think that you were doing something wrong?

7:48Where were you at? Yeah. So obviously dealing, you know, dealing with a tremendous, tremendous amount of pressure. And it's one of those things, right? When you start having chaos with that sort of message with opportunity and the story is really quite simple and it's funny and that's not funny it's interesting that it almost really happened by accident so let me set the scene for you normally as the treasurer for the department what I would do I had an office there and I would go and I would take care of fire company business whether it's paying bills or preparing purchase orders etc the normal stuff that a treasurer would do and on one particular night sort of when I was in the throes of all this chaos, I was doing fire department business, and I had put that aside, and then I started to do some of my own personal business.

8:40And try to imagine, so because I'm so sidetracked with everything that's going on, I wasn't fully present in the moment, and I went to go pay one of my bills, which by the way was no easy chore because again, finances were tough. I went to go do it and I started typing in the account number and it was the account number for the fire department, which I had on like a separate sheet of paper. And I, again, not fully present in the moment. I was just kind of like on autopilot almost. Now, here's the thing. In that moment, I caught it. I caught it. I didn't actually do it. I caught it. I was, oh, my God, what am I doing?

9:15But here's the interesting thing about that. That sparked this idea in my mind. What if I hadn't caught it? Like, what if I had actually gone through with that? It clearly would have been a mistake. And so I started to then rationalize a little bit to myself. Like, well, that could have easily been explained and then I just would have paid it back and it wouldn't have been an issue. So you can see where that little sort of a twinge of an idea, you know, started to fester into something more sinister, but not sinister in a way where I was trying to get one over on people because I just thought to myself, well, that could have been very easily, you know, easily explained away.

9:55And that's kind of where the idea came from, and it started to weigh on me a little bit. And it wasn't long after, probably only a couple of days, where I sort of rationalized to myself, well, let me just bridge the gap a little bit. You know what I mean? I'll just pay a couple of these bills. And here's the crazy thing, Adam. This is the thing that I think people, I've explained this to a couple people before, and I think people are a little, like, not sure how to process this. Do you know the amount of relief that I felt when I originally did it? Wow. Yeah, think about it. I mean, I had done it.

10:26I knew, understand this, I'm a smart individual. I fully understood that there was something wrong with it. But I was in such a state of mind where almost being smart about it made me rationalize it even easier. And so what ended up happening was the first couple of times or the first couple of bills that I paid, and that's what I was doing, I was trying to keep the lights on and stuff like that, which by the way, a lot of people go through that and don't do what I did. So no excuse, it's just what happened. But in the aftermath, the immediate aftermath, the overwhelming experience that I felt was one of relief.

11:04I finally felt like this, I could exhale a little bit. And isn't it ironic? That's the same feeling that I would have many years later when I would eventually tell the story and start to, you know, tell people what I had done. That same sense of relief, but obviously for a different reason. So that was the thing. And then once you feel like, wow, okay, this is good and I can like breathe a little bit, that part almost became intoxicating. And that line that I would never cross, I started to move that line. and you know ultimately each time became a little bit easier because the feeling was one of some relief amidst all of the chaos and the hurt that I was feeling because of what was going on.

11:46And this was taking place over the course of years correct? Yeah so yes the approximate time it was just about a two-year period of time and it was like periodically it would be like okay we'll pick because initially the idea or the thought process was we'll just do this once or twice and then and we'll pay it back. Right, you thought you were almost like borrowing the money. Right, exactly. And that's kind of how I rationalized it to myself. And then it just became easier and easier to do, and it just became almost a habit. And so, yeah, this took place over the course of about, say, a two-year period of time.

12:19And then you snap back into reality, and you're like, whoa, okay. Now we see what this added up to. And the other thing I always told myself was I'll pay it back. And the ironic thing is I did start doing that. I did because after that period of time, that's exactly what I did. I started putting the money back and that made me keep the secret even further. But, Michael, you could have kept doing this for years and years and years and maybe not even be on this podcast today. What changed? Yeah, that's a great question and I have been asked this before. Here's the best way for me to describe it.

12:58at a certain point the hiding was no longer protecting me right it was really destroying me every day that I kept the truth buried I had to live with the fear that it might eventually come out now it might not have but I had to live with that fear and also the knowledge that I was continuing to betray the people who trusted me understand this the members of my fire department They were my family. I absolutely loved them. And even though my initial thought process was that nothing was hurting them directly, when I started to get a little more clarity in my life, I realized I was betraying these people and they trusted me.

13:43and so you know that feeling of basically bringing it out and I had to do it and I was terrified to do it but honestly I just reached a point where I was no longer willing to keep living in conflict with my own values you know I don't know I wouldn't necessarily call it strength because I knew there'd be consequences and I was afraid of them but I had this realization that I could never truly move forward if I was still protecting this lie, even though it had stopped. And even though I was paying the money back and I knew that telling the truth might cost me everything, but continuing to hide was already costing me who I was.

14:25And you have a family, you have all of every, all these pieces to come together. Yes. When you finally turned yourself in. And the only reason I know this was because I read the book, but I want the audience to know this. you met with the chief. Am I correct? Correct. Can you talk to us about that day? Oh, yeah. So January 1st, 2022. January 1st. It's funny because throughout the course of my journey, there's certain dates that I can cite. January 1st, 2022, which is obviously New Year's Day, a decision was made because I had reached the point where carrying the secret was completely unbearable for me.

15:06I was really exhausted. I was managing two realities, right? I was managing the person that everyone believed me to be and then the truth I was hiding. So again, New Year's is kind of an interesting, right? You think about what's been passed, you think about moving forward. So I finally understood that there was no way to meaningfully move forward in my life while continuing to protect what I had done. So what I did, to answer your question, this was about a week later, I believe it was January 7th. What I did was over the course of that time from the 1st to the 7th, I sat down and I wrote a four page letter.

15:40And the four page letter wasn't to send to him. It was to read to him. And the reason that I did it that way was because I was so emotional about this. I mean, I'm a writer, I'm a speaker, and I can do that. But I was so emotional here that I needed to make sure that I didn't forget anything. Yes. So for a period of about a week, I sat down and I wrote one of the most painful letters I've ever written in my life. And it was all in preparation to sit with him. He was going to be the first person that I spoke with to tell him. And I was scared. But there was a, again, there was this sort of strange sense of clarity.

16:15And for the first time in a long time, I was no longer trying to escape what I had done. But now I had, you know, this, this task. So I got to the firehouse, I had asked him to meet me there. He had no clue why. And then he gets there and we go into his office and he and I had always had a fabulous relationship. So he was more than willing to sit with me, sat down and I said, listen, I need to talk to you about something. And then I pulled out the letter and I read it word for word from the first to the last. And you said in the book that he didn't react the way that you thought he was going to react.

16:49You know, it's funny, Adam. And I think anyone listening can relate to this. I think we all come up with conclusions as to what we think is going to happen. I could have given you 100 different scenarios and I definitely wouldn't have come up with what actually happened. And here's what it was. I read the letter and there was a range of emotions that came from him, but he didn't in the immediacy say anything. But I could see his eyes welling up. Right. And then he shocked me. because he stood up, he walked over to me, and he gave me a hug. Are you kidding me? Wow. Are you kidding me? Wow. He didn't see that coming.

17:28Wow. Did not see that coming. And here's what it ultimately came down to after a little bit of conversation. He was obviously upset. He was, in his own right, he was scared because what did this mean for the department, the whole thing. but he ultimately understood that I had family and he understood what it took for me to come and tell him this. He understood that, you know, there might be consequences and he understood the situation that I had been in, which caused me to do it in the first place. And he felt all of those emotions at the same time and expressed them to me. And in a weird way, and I think I say this in the book, in a weird way that actually made the whole thing even more difficult.

18:07I almost wanted him to just be pissed right you said it yeah i say that you know but the fact that he showed the caring and everything and at the same time i saw the hurt man that was tough it was tough but what a day that was i'll never ever forget it all right so now you tell the chief he was the first one you told before your family you talked about your daughter and how you talked to about her about this and i want the audience to hear that so explain that timeline to us yeah okay so I'll lay it out for you. First conversation took place with the chief, as I mentioned. About a week later, and for anyone that's ever been part of a fire department, there's usually an executive board, which is the people that run the business side of the house.

18:49And that's what I was. I was part of that as the treasurer. After sitting with the chief and only him, then the plan was he put together an executive board meeting, like an emergency one, for a couple days later. It might have been like five or six days later. In which case, and this is crazy, then I had to go back to the firehouse and I sat with all the people that I served with on the executive board and told them the story. Good lord, good lord. So there was that. Now, here's where we get to the family. In the immediacy after telling the fire department, and then I went and spoke to the police and, you know, talked to them about it.

19:26It took about a month for the story to hit the news cycle. Now, in that time, I still hadn't said anything to my family and part of that came from fear part of it came from the fact that I didn't know how they were going to accept or receive the news and because it wasn't out there publicly at this point I kind of kicked the can down the road a little bit a whole month from the time you told the police chief before you heard a phone call or anything back and you're like wondering when is this gonna hit I think that the stress of that month would have probably given me a heart attack. I got news for you.

20:02It was actually two months because what happened was I spoke to the chief on January 7th. I didn't actually speak to the police and get officially charged until February 7th. So that was a month. And then it was a month after that, ironically enough, on my birthday, March 9th, when the news story hit the, when it hit the news cycle. Now the day that it hit the news cycle the day that day I contacted my first there was I had I contacted my family and I said listen and they're in different parts we couldn't actually physically get together so we did a FaceTime call and I sat with them and I said and I told them what happened so there was that but the hardest conversation of this whole thing was my children yeah my children understand this and that and by the way that happened that also happened the same day once the news cycle hit, I felt it imperative to make sure that I was the one that broke the news before they did, before they heard it.

20:57How old are your kids at this time? At this time, so this was, so let's see there, right now they're 20 and 14. So this was, my goodness, 26. This was 22. So 15 and nine, roughly. They're right in the school and it's going to come out and they're going to need to know how to handle themselves. That, in the immediacy, that's where my mind went because remember, we were a very respected family in the community. You know, firefighter dad, kids coming up in the school system, great kids, by the way, like really lovable, likable kids. And so there was that fear that as things started to spread like wildfire, as it typically does, there was the fear that they would, you know, hear things.

21:39And it wasn't really my intent to keep it from them. I just, I kind of was biding my time a little bit and this forced my hand. So I had spent my children's entire lives trying to be an example for them, as all parents can understand. And I had taught them to tell the truth, right, to own their mistakes and accept the consequences of their choices. And then I had to sit down in front of them and explain to them that their father had made a serious mistake and that our lives were about to change because of it. I didn't know if I was going to be able to get through the conversation and it was a hard one.

22:17And I remember looking at them as they sat on the couch in my apartment and I realized before I ever said a word that there was going to be a before and an after. There was going to be before they knew about this and there was going to be after what I was about to tell them. And that devastated me. Because part of me believed that the version of their father that they had always looked up to was about to disappear. And then as kids often... And what's that going to do to your relationship? You talked about before and after, before the relationship and after the fallout. I really genuinely worried about it.

22:55And you know what they did? As kids often do, man, they surprised me because they responded with more grace and more maturity than I frankly deserved in that moment. Wow. And you know what? That didn't really make the conversation easier. Just like I had mentioned with the chief, I almost wanted people to beat me up because I felt like I deserved it. But I wasn't only telling them what I had done. I was watching the image that they had of me change in real time. And yet they still treated me with that grace. So yeah, the hardest part for me wasn't admitting the failure. I was really just wondering in the moment, would my children still believe that I was someone worth looking up to?

23:32And that's a hard thing to... So now the time passes and the police come to your house and arrest you? Is that how it worked? No, I went to the police station. Actually, yeah, I went to there and I sat down with someone. And here's the interesting thing. It's funny, I've caught some flack for this, or I did in the immediacy. Like, we're past all this now. But I went and sat with them. And, of course, they did the thing where they were like, well, you know, you have the right to an attorney, et cetera, et cetera. And at this point in my mindset, I was like, no, I don't want an attorney. Because I'm thinking an attorney is going to tell me not to say anything.

24:06and I was in the mood now where it was like, no, let me tell you everything. I need to free myself. Even though this isn't in the best interest, I need to free myself. I need to put it all out there because I can't live with myself by telling bits and pieces or having my attorney take what I'm saying and give it in this lawyer language which is going to help me get off the hook. You're just like, I need to throw this out there. I need to be completely clean so I can repair my life. And in a weird way, that's all 100 % true. And the other thing, in a weird way, and remember, think of the things I told you about the reactions that people had and how that made it harder.

24:44I wanted the pain, Adam. I wanted to, I was so angry with myself that I was like, you know what, I'm not having an attorney because whatever the consequences are, I earned them. So bring it on. I'm going to tell the story. I'm going to get it out there because I'm tired of hiding. And that's what was my mindset. So I sat there for an hour and a half and told him everything. And then what happened was the officer, he was very kind. And he was like, look, I give you a lot of credit. I give you a lot of credit for sitting here telling the story. They don't see that that often. He steps out of the room and he goes and he calls the district attorney, right, the prosecutor.

25:22And I couldn't hear the conversation, but I was sitting there alone with myself at this moment, just like spent because of what was going on. Like, my life was just, like, what was this going to be? He comes back in and he says, listen, he says, it should come as no surprise. They're going to file charges. And I was actually charged with three felonies on the same case. And then what happened was, this is remarkable. They process me, you know, which is they go in, they do the fingerprints, the whole thing. They take pictures of the tattoos and everything. And then they let me go. And I didn't expect that.

25:54I kind of expected I was going to get thrown in jail, to be honest. But he let me go. He knew that I had to go pick my son up from soccer. And he was like, look, he goes, no one thinks you're a threat here. They said, you're going to have to appear, of course. But he let me go. And so that's how it happened. The book doesn't talk about the end. And I'm starting to get the clarity on that because I was like, all right, maybe there's a part two that's going to be coming out because you left me hanging. I'm like, well, where were we going? Did he have to serve time in jail or is it just, you know, that he's still going through the case?

26:27And I wasn't sure. So, yeah, let me clarify that. So I did not go to prison for this. As I mentioned a moment ago, I was charged with three felonies initially. And at one point, when you add up the potential punishment for those three, it added up to about 10 years. 10 years in prison is really what I was facing. Hard thing, by the way, for someone who had never been through anything like this before, hard thing for someone to tell you in a very matter-of-fact way, yeah, there's a possibility of getting 10 years in prison for this. I mean, it was like, you know, okay, wow, really? You know, you just don't fathom it.

27:02But because I had no prior criminal history, because I came forward on my own, because I cooperated, and because, of course, I accepted full responsibility, what ended up happening was, and I'm very grateful, by the way, I'm grateful to my attorney. I'm grateful to the prosecutor. I'm grateful to the judge because they saw that I was remorseful. And, you know, and they took all those things into consideration. And I ended up getting convicted of one felony. I pled on one. So I have that. And I was sentenced to supervised probation, which is ongoing. That's currently the process that I'm in. Now, I want to say this, though, because we're talking about punishment.

27:39I want to make sure this is really clear for anyone listening. This does not mean that the consequences weren't significant. Because let me tell you, probation is not that bad, but it is still an obligation that I earned. But also, think about this outside the legal realm. I lost relationships. There are still people to this day, even with all the work that I'm doing now, who have never spoken to me again after reading the story that was put out in the public. My fire department, completely gone. I lost that. parts of my reputation, of course, and for a long time. And this is really where the basis of the book for a long time, my sense of identity.

28:18Michael, I have to stop you there because here's what I'm noticing. So I, first of all, I'm so proud of you. I think for being able to, I'm proud to know you. I think this story coming forward is, like I said earlier, vulnerable. And I think it really is going to help a lot of other people who are struggling in that fight in life. I believe and I could be wrong that I saw a cross around your neck and I didn't know that a cross it is It is a cross. Okay. So I would love to know. I mean, God God Jesus forgives right and but I would love to know and I think the listeners would want to know too is Who is God during this struggle and who is God now?

29:01Yeah, this is a great question and I am a very spiritual person. I kind of always have been And I'll say this. So before everything happened, I think my relationship with God was often connected to, you know, asking for help, protection, maybe a way out of difficult circumstances. And I think that's the case for a lot of people. But afterward, that relationship became a lot more honest, I think I would say, because I stopped approaching faith as a way to avoid consequences. and I began to understand it as a place where I could kind of face the truth about myself without believing that I was beyond grace.

29:43Because there was a lot of self-judgment during this time. And so my faith became very important. There were moments, honestly, if I'm being honest, which I always am, when I questioned why God would allow my life to fall apart. But over time, I started to ask a different question and that's, what am I supposed to learn from this? What is the lesson? Yeah, what am I supposed to learn? What am I supposed to change? What do I do with whatever? How can I serve more? Exactly. My faith really also taught me that grace and accountability are not opposites. Right? Grace doesn't pretend that the mistake didn't happen.

30:21And it doesn't remove the responsibility to make things right. But it reminds you that failure doesn't have to be the end of your usefulness or your purpose. So, yeah, the experience, it did have an impact on my relationship with God. but it just made me talk to him in a different way. All right. So now your life. So, all right. Thank you for giving that clarity. So now let's go back. Your life is spiraling. Like it seems like the legal ramifications are done. People are distancing themselves to you. I know that in the book says that your girlfriend, this drew you guys closer together and she stood by your side.

30:56And there was some people that stood by your side, but people that you thought that were going to stand by your side, they kind of vanished and understandably. Right. And we're not going to deny that. But when that is all happening, at what point do you realize your life isn't over and you can rebuild? Yeah. So I think, let's see. I don't think that there was one single day, of course, when suddenly everything changed. It was more of a, this was a gradual process for me. This gradual realization, you know, I knew that my life hadn't ended. And when I go through the reclaim framework in the book, I talk about this.

31:34The R is recognize, right? Recognize that you're still here. So that was big for me. And at first, I think I was focused, and I think this is reasonable, I think I was focused almost entirely on what I had lost. My reputation, the fire department, the relationships, and obviously the version of myself that I had spent years building. But what happened was over time, again, I began to notice that I'm still here, that I'm still a father. And because of those people who stood by me, I'm still loved. And I'm still capable of making choices that actually mattered. You know, the past definitely changed my life, but it didn't remove my ability to shape what comes next.

32:16So I think the real turning point for me came when I stopped asking whether I could get my old life back. because there was a lot of that in the early going. And I started to ask, what kind of life could I build from where I was now? And so that shift is really what eventually led to the book, the type of speaking that I do now, and the purpose that I now find in helping others who feel defined by their worst moment realize that they can have a purpose. So you wrote this book for people that maybe hiding something in the closet or maybe came forward and their life is spiraling because of that decision and saying that you can rebuild your life.

33:00I'd like to take a moment and talk about this, who I wrote the book for. Absolutely, because I've thought a lot about this. And yes, I definitely wrote it for anyone who's ever felt defined by the worst thing they've done. I mean, that's the one sort of sentence I would say. But it's not it, because it's for the person who carries shame quietly. I often talk about in the early going before everything became public, or actually right after everything became public, the reason it's called my name is because for a long time I wouldn't tell anyone my name because I was afraid that they would Google my name and the first thing they'd see is the news story.

33:34That is a horrendously, a horrendous way to live, and I was effectively living anonymously. And I'm the person who was like the mayor. I'd walk into crowds, I'd walk out with 15 new friends because I'd get along with everyone. So I was a shell of myself. so this book is for the person carrying that shame quietly and the ones who believe that they disqualified themselves from a meaningful future it's for the person who may have made a serious mistake who faces consequences and here's the big one who does not know how to separate accountability from self-destruction that was a huge lesson for me i wrote it for people who maybe they didn't experience a public fall, but maybe they understand what it feels like to not know who they are.

34:19Because shame comes from a lot of places. It can come from addiction, failure, broken relationships, poor decisions, of course, or how about just not feeling like you don't know who you are anymore because this world is insane. So, ultimately, I wrote the book for the person who needs to hear that owning your past doesn't require surrendering the future. Michael, I've got to ask you. If someone's hiding a secret, it could be a severe secret that's been there for years, and it's eating them alive. What advice would you have for them? Again, from experience, I would tell them that the secret is already costing them something, even if no one else knows about it yet.

35:03It's not going to go away? No, it's costing them peace. It's costing them honesty and connection. and it's really costing them the ability to be fully present in their own life. And those things are beautiful. And I am living proof of this. Now, I think it's important to say, though, as I say that, because I do want to be responsible with any advice I'm giving to someone, that does not mean that they should necessarily reveal everything recklessly or without considering the consequences first. But it does mean that they really need to stop carrying it alone. So I might say, hey, speak with someone, speak with a trusted person, a counselor, maybe a faith leader or someone who's equipped to help them face it safely and responsibly.

35:46I actually have a whole group of people. I do a lot of promotion and stuff on TikTok. I have people who reach out to me on a regular basis for this type of thing where they want to tell their stories because they know that I understand. So it could be anyone. I love this. You know, so the bottom line is you don't have to necessarily, you know, confess everything to everyone, but you have to stop protecting the secret more than you're protecting your life. And Michael, if you could go back that day, that first day, right, you wrote that check, ripped it up and a few days went back and you said, you know what, I could do this.

36:21And you wrote that first check. What would you say to that person? well okay so i would tell him to stop but not in the way you might think i would tell him to stop and tell the truth about how overwhelmed he really was if i'm just me talking to myself i'd remind him that asking for help might feel humiliating in the moment but it will never cost as much as pretending you can carry everything alone and it's funny i got a lot of interesting comments about the following because I'm going to make a statement that might seem controversial, but hear it out for what it is. As strange as this may sound, I don't think that I would erase this entire journey, meaning I don't know that I would go back and change what happened.

37:06I'll tell you why. First of all, I would absolutely make a different decision, right, if I had that same decision to make. That's no question. But I know that going through everything that followed what happened, it forced me to become more honest, vulnerable, self-aware, and intentional than I have ever been before. And it didn't make, that doesn't make the decision right, and obviously doesn't change the hurt that came with it, because there was a lot. It just means that I have chosen now to not waste what the experience taught me. So I can't change the road, but I can decide what kind of man I am moving forward on it.

37:40And that's why, in many ways, I'm the best version of myself that I've ever been. I'm so proud of you. And I'm grateful to call you my friend. I really am. I think that you are going to change a lot of lives. I really do. And I'm grateful that you came onto the podcast to share your story today. The book is called My Name Is. It's Michael Chris Molle. Chris Molle is spelled, and there's a V in there, Michael V. Chris Molle, and it's C-R-I-S-M-A-L-I. And the book is My Name Is. They can get it on Amazon. if our audience wants to hear more about you, what your speaking is, how to get in contact with you.

38:25How can they do that? Yeah, a couple of different ways. First of all, I am on Facebook. So social media is a great way. I am on Facebook and it's just my name, Michael V. Chrismali. As I mentioned before, I'm on TikTok as well. And you'd be able to find me there. My handle on TikTok, ironically, is fireguy. But I've developed a really nice following there and I have a lot of people that I communicate on. I do a lot of videos that are like, you know, minute, minute and a half motivational type things that sort of coincide with my journey. Also on LinkedIn. So social media is a great place. Also my website, Legacy Word Services, three words all together, legacywordservices.com.

39:02All my contact information is there as well. And I would urge anyone who might be hearing this that if you don't know who to go to, I want to stress, you can come to me. You can come to me because if I can't help you directly, I might be able to put you in touch with someone who can, but his number is 8 6 7 5 3 0 9. No, there you go. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, the underlying message here is whatever else you don't go at it alone. I've learned to lean on my circle has shrunk because there's been people who have walked away and that's okay. I had to get comfortable with that, but the people who remain, they're my rock.

39:39They're the people that I lean on when I'm having a bad day. And so just know you can reach out to me. You can reach out, like lead, reach out to someone. Don't do it alone because a better life is out there waiting for you. A hundred percent. So you can write Michael a message on social media. You can go to his website. You can actually get to contact him and you can start that conversation if you need to reach him. Definitely. Michael, I want to, go ahead. No, I would say I have a lot of people that do that and I'm more than happy to help. And again, if I can't help you directly, I can give you some advice that put you in the right way.

40:11And I do it from experience. This is stuff I've gone through. This has been an incredible interview. I want to thank you for your time. Thank you for being here. This is the Managing Difficult People podcast. Until next time. Thanks, Adam. Take care.

40:29So that's it for today's episode of the Managing Difficult People podcast. Head on over to Apple Podcasts or iTunes wherever you listen and subscribe to the show. One lucky listener every single week that posts a review on Apple Podcasts or iTunes will win a chance in the grand prize drawing to win a$10 ,000 private VIP day with Adam Holbrook himself. Be sure to head on over to managingdifficultpeoplepodcast.com and pick up a free copy of Adam's gift and join us on the next episode.

41:08Hey, how was this?