298: Exploring Massachusetts' Aerospace & Defense Industry, LIVE in Canton, MA

0:00I think if we go back far enough, you really say it started here, right? The revolution started here. You needed the weapons to be able to fight the British. Welcome to Manufacturing Happy Hour, the podcast where we get real about the latest trends and technologies impacting modern manufacturers. Manufacturing Happy Hour. Each week, we interview industry experts that are at the top of their craft and give you the tools, tactics, and strategies you need to take your career and your business to the next level. And now, your host, Chris Lukey. Made in Massachusetts. This live episode of Manufacturing Happy Hour focuses on Massachusetts' industrial strengths by way of the region's rich aerospace and defense manufacturing heritage.

0:53We're joined by Michael Tomasi, owner and CEO of AccuRounds, Megan Glidden, CFO of Web Industries, and Joe McAdden, president of Globe Composite Solutions. We'll cover what makes Massachusetts a strategic location for defense manufacturing with a significant focus on a variety of talent programs, institutions, and best practices they're leveraging to be successful. So let's head to one of my personal favorite breweries in the world, Trillium Brewing in Canton, Massachusetts, just outside of Boston. to meet up with Joe, Megan, and Michael.

1:34Canton, Massachusetts, greater Boston area, the hub of New England in many ways. Welcome to Manufacturing Happy Hour. There we go. I didn't need to prompt you to give a clap there. Hey, seriously, thank you for being here. This is the first stop on our all-American manufacturing summer tour. We're going across the Northeast, going across the Midwest. And by the way, this is the first ever Manufacturing Happy Hour live show where we sold over 100 tickets. I would say, I mean, this was a sellout. I had to add more spots. We moved to a bigger space. I mean, this is incredible. So thank you all for being here.

2:16Thank you all for everything you do here in the manufacturing space. I am excited to introduce our topic for the night as well as our panelists. So tonight's topic, these tours are a little different. If you listen to Manufacturing Happy Hour, if you're not familiar with it, if you're familiar with it, normally it's one-on-one interviews done over a beer, remotely, but done candidly, right? Talking about the issues that impact our industry, the way you would have a conversation is if you're having a beer. When we do these live shows, we get to have a little more fun, maybe make it a little more informal because we get to bring a crew of folks up on stage.

2:53And this group is absolutely representative, not only of Massachusetts manufacturing, but of what it takes to continue to build our defense industrial base here in the U.S. So I'm excited to go through some introductions. So Megan, we'll start at the end with you. If you can introduce yourself and describe what you do as if you're having beers at Trillium Brewing with someone, we'll start there. So I thought if I sat here, I could go last. So part of being a professional podcaster is I know how to rotate who goes first and who bats cleanup on these questions. So you'll all get an opportunity tonight.

3:30So I'm Megan Glidden. I'm the CFO of Web Industries. We are a global manufacturing company. We have five manufacturing plants here in the U.S. We have three in Europe. We are really spread amongst many different industries, but about half of our business is in aerospace and defense, which is pretty relevant to today's conversation. And I've been with the web just under three years. Awesome. Michael, you're up next. Sure. Michael Tomasi, president and CEO of Acheron, second generation family business owner right down the road in Avon, Massachusetts. We are an advanced manufacturer that provides contract precision machining services for a variety of industries, including aerospace and defense, medical, semiconductor, robotics, and more.

4:20All high-end mechanical components, shafts, pins, and valves that you all rely on every day, but you probably don't realize it. All right. And Joe, wrap us up on our intros. I'm a neighbor in Stoughton, Mass. So we are 88 % defense. Joe McCadden, president of Globe Manufacturing, where 88 % defense, primarily urethanes, rubber. They're strong products. They don't corrode. They tend to absorb sound, which makes them really good for submarines. And then we also produce syntactic foam, which is primarily used for buoyancy. We're going to get into submarines a little bit later in the conversation.

5:00But as we get started, one of my first questions is, I'd love for all of you to tell us in your own words about, you know, the greater Boston area as a defense manufacturing hub. So how would you characterize it? How would you describe it? Not only to this audience, but there are going to be people across the country and in some cases the world that listen to this episode when it comes out. So how would you describe it again as if you're having a beverage with someone? Michael, maybe you kick us off on this one. Sure. What's unique about Massachusetts, it's a small state, right? So you have your major OEMs, your Raytheons, your General Dynamics, but they need companies like ours, SMEs, small and medium-sized enterprises.

5:42So the ecosystem, the advanced manufacturing ecosystem here is very unique. You can get things done right down the street if you need to. So quick turn, quick to market is very important. and in recognizing the dollars that are coming in and the need for defense in aerospace with everything going on in the world macroeconomically, our state launched what's called SHIELD, the strategic hub for innovation, innovation and exchange and leadership and defense. I'm not sure if I got that totally right, but a lot of dollars are focused around how can we capitalize on the federal funds that are available to put the work in this state to continue to promote and produce the defensive components that we need to protect our country.

6:27All right. Joe, how about you go this time? Well, I think if we go back far enough, you really say it started here, right? The revolution started here. You needed the weapons to be able to fight the British. I knew someone was going to do that tonight. And thank you, Joe, for doing that so early in the conversation. But then, you know, you also look at the educational base that's around here. You You know, you've got all the institutions, BU, Northeastern, Harvard, MIT. They provide the education and we've got the workforce to help produce the product. So we've got innovation in the workforce.

7:01Yeah, and I would say you have one of the most unique workforces, a lot of that accredited just to your mix of education that you have here. When the rest of the world thinks of Massachusetts, I think education is one of the things that comes front of mind for many reasons that I think a lot of people would expect, but also for reasons I think other people wouldn't expect, because there's a lot of depth in the trade schools and the unique workforce programs. We're going to get into those later in the conversation as well. But to wrap up this round, Megan, how would you describe this place as a hub for defense manufacturing, maybe to someone that's not familiar with it?

7:35Yeah, so my situation is a little bit unique because we have several manufacturing locations beyond just Massachusetts. but Massachusetts is our hub. It's our headquarters. And we intentionally choose Massachusetts because we, I kind of echoed the same comments. We have, you know, such significant engineering experience in Massachusetts. We also, the depth of experience within defense, medical, and aerospace is so, you know, and what we can take to our other organizations. So it just allows us to tap talent that doesn't exist in other parts of the U.S. Yeah, and I appreciate you all giving this overview here to kick off the conversation, because I'm going to actually dive into a bit more of a pointed story.

8:23And Joe, this goes back to your comment around submarines, etc., because you were just involved in commissioning the USS Massachusetts, I think, back in March of this year. And I'm just very curious. Give us a little background on that. I think it's worth describing what a submarine like this means to folks that aren't as familiar with it. But I mean, how did that make you feel to know that you were a part of that? Because I think that's a great way to really illustrate what that type of manufacturing means to this region. Sure, the Massachusetts was commissioned in March, the boat 798. I will say we gave a gift that I think is very Boston-centric.

9:04So if anyone knows the numbers in the Green Monster, we gave SSN 798 to the boat right out of the Green Monster from the Red Sox. So that was really kind of a cool gift. But the boat itself, submarines are the apex predator within the Navy's arsenal. And you think about threats around the world and their ability to help defend us and protect our freedom. The other thing about submarines, it's the silent service, so no one talks about it. But as far as the importance, it was a wonderful opportunity to get the employees engaged. We had two buses that left from Globe. We brought all the employees and their families to the commissioning ceremony.

9:48It just makes everyone proud for the work that they put into the boat to know that it is out there at sea, is safe. And part of what we provide helps provide the stealth that allows our sailors and our warfighters to stay safe. Yeah, and I think one thing that's no secret to a lot of the industry right now, and this is something I know we're going to cover in other cities on this tour, is that the submarine industrial base needs people right now. I think our audience generally understands that submarines are a very high-tech application. But Joe, can you go a step further and maybe share what you wish more people knew about the submarine industrial base?

10:33Yeah, I think that just to kind of the extent of the problem, which really comes down to people. We need 100 ,000 people over the next five to 10 years just to build submarines. This is not for the military or the Navy. This is just to build submarines. And it's across all facets, be it purchasing, finance, manufacturing, welders, additive manufacturing. It's everything. And it's all based right here on the East Coast. So there's a lot that's happening right here in New England. We're 90 minutes from Groton. We're a day's drive for Newport News where every submarine the U.S. has is built. We're 60 minutes from Portsmouth Naval Shipyard.

11:18So it is a huge opportunity. And they're jobs that are not going to go away. These are not jobs that are going to be replaced by AI. We need people and we need skills. And it's really not just a job, it's a career. Yeah. I'm going to go a slightly different direction, Megan, with my question for you. because you were just highlighting, Joe, about how this is such a strategic location for the submarine industrial base. Megan, I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on how is this a strategic location for leading five manufacturing facilities across the U.S. as well as across the globe as well? Maybe even answering this from a more general standpoint, what makes Massachusetts a strategic spot to lead a global manufacturing company?

12:03And then, Michael, we'll have you back cleanup on this one and kind of wrap some of these thoughts together? Yeah. So the manufacturing we're doing is in the construction of airplanes, helicopters, and even rocket ships that are going to space. And what makes Massachusetts attractive to us is that the depth of experience around aerospace and defense and medical, these are highly regulated industries. These are industries that you can't take this work off seas to do. And it requires a lot of experience, both from someone who's a machine operator all the way through our engineering. And a lot of it is based around process.

12:50And so Massachusetts just provides a talent and provides innovation that a lot of other parts of the country can't support to allow us to continue to be competitive and have that competitive advantage against our, you know, competitors. And then, you know, I think kind of to wrap that up, Massachusetts, you know, also is a place that's close to a lot of our customers. So while we're, you know, a tier supplier and there's an OEM and we might be closer to one of their factories, a lot of them have a significant presence here in Massachusetts are on the East Coast that allows us quick access to them.

13:28So I'm hearing a lot around the location, both, you know, location from the defense industrial base from a general standpoint, also the talent that's here. We're going to get there in just a second. But Michael, we've been talking about Massachusetts from a talent standpoint, from a location standpoint. What would you add? What's maybe something we haven't highlighted about manufacturing in Massachusetts that makes this such a strong place to build? So I'm going to make an analogy going back to COVID. And I think it could play very well in the defense industry if and when needed. But during COVID, I coached you the Massachusetts Advanced Manufacturing Collaborative for the state and everything shut down.

14:11And we took our group of talented people from educators to government leaders to manufacturers. And we pivoted companies to make gowns and masks and ventilators. and days and weeks instead of months and years. And our medical system thanked us because they said without that effort, they probably would not have survived and wouldn't have had so many saved lives because of what we were able to do. And what that points to is that tight ecosystem from beginning to end, from innovation to production, the ability to put minds together and get things done quick. And God forbid we get into a situation defense-wise, national security-wise, where we need that effort.

14:51Well, we can go back to that. We've experienced it. We could we could spin it a dime and make that happen again. So Massachusetts is a state that, if I heard you correctly, can rally quickly and answer the call. And that's something to celebrate here, as well as folks that are listening to this after this comes out on the pod waves that they can figure out ways. Hey, how can we be more agile like Massachusetts? Right. That's the goal of this show is to help folks across the country learn from three great folks like Megan and Michael and Joe in conversations like this. So, Michael, I'm going to stick with you for this next question.

15:29We're going to pivot to talking more specifically about workforce and the great things that you're doing here. You already highlighted S.H.I.E.L.D., which in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is its own acronym. I wasn't sure if anyone picked that up. But you've also there's an organization here called MAP that you've leveraged. the Massachusetts Manufacturing Accelerator Program. Explain that to us. Sure. That's a grant program run out of the Mass Tech Collaborative and the Center for Advanced Manufacturing. We have our team right here. If you're interested in learning more in detail, Austin runs that program with Lily and Megan and Rich.

16:06It's primed for small and medium-sized enterprises to lever up through technology, be it robotics, automation, digital transformation. They provide support through the grant program. You get a partner that comes in and does an analysis of your business, looks at your long-term plan. It's all around CapEx dollars to invest back. I was an award winner. Acura Islands was an award winner in round one. We were able to purchase a robot that we used to load and unload shafts that were being made in our lathe that went into a robot, ironically. but that gave us the ability to add that new technology to lever up, introduce automation.

16:46We're currently around nine. I think there's a couple of days left Friday, Thursday or Friday. Friday is the last day of round nine. Hopefully there'll be more rounds after that. So if you're interested, see Austin, but it's a tremendous effort and the support the state shows among many other grant programs that's really focused on SMEs to help them remain competitive. Yeah. Yeah, it's nice being able to shout out folks in the front row at these live shows. We don't normally get to do that on the podcast, and we're just recording in a studio. So thank you for that, Michael. One other thing I should mention, you were talking about how you leveraged it to invest in automation.

17:21I mean, from what you've seen, maybe you don't have context as what some other winners have done with it, but is it usually a technology investment that it goes to, or are there lots of other ways that manufacturers can invest back into their business? I'm curious what your perspective on that is. It's typically technology, but there's some flexibility. I mean, there's been certain guidelines in prior rounds, and they've expanded that. The whole focus is to provide funds to help companies that can't afford or wouldn't be able to accelerate as fast without the funds to invest and remain competitive and introduce new technology.

17:55So, yeah, mostly technology focused. But it's not just equipment. It could be digital software, inspection tools, things like that. So that's a great example of a program in the state of Massachusetts that you've leveraged to invest in technology. Megan, I'm going to ask you a different style for this question because you mentioned when we were chatting before this conversation that at your company, you've retired machine operators as millionaires. I think I'm quoting that correctly. Aside from grants, how has being an employee-owned company helped you at Web Industries? Yeah. So as an employee-owned company, all of our equity gets distributed to our employees.

18:39So it's true, we do retire people, operators as millionaires. We call it the millionaire club and we love celebrating those individuals. And, you know, what it does for us is that every single person, every worker shares in the success of the business. And what that does from an employee standpoint, it drives engagement. It drives accountability. And it's not just accountability from the leadership to our, you know, our team members. It's with one another. It drives, you know, Kaizen events. It drives being lean as an organization. because every single person says, if you're wasteful, that's a dollar out of my pocket that you're taking.

19:22And because of that, you know, it's really just a retention tool that can't be replicated by other type of, you know, other types of ownership structure. So, you know, kind of with all that being said, those that join web and then they start to understand what it means to be an employee owner, get locked in. And then regardless of where you are within the organization, your expertise and your understanding of what it takes to build our products changes. Because if you have a lot of turnover, your training and that development comes and it goes. But when you have people who have been with your organization for 10, 20, 30 years, not only are they driving continuous improvement within your business, but they're also working towards their own generational wealth.

20:09And it just creates a different type of culture. Yeah, I have a follow-up question, but the first part of this question is an audience participation activity. From time to time on this podcast, we have a rule where if someone says AI, everyone has to drink. And since we're at a brewery, I think that's what we're going to do for this question. Because, Megan, another thing we covered when we were chatting in advance, you've mentioned you're very focused on AI right now. Can you tell us a bit more about this and how you're enabling your workforce when it comes to artificial intelligence? So we could have a whole podcast on just this topic.

20:51So I'll try to keep it brief. Cut me off if you need to. But as an organization, I mean, a lot of us are rolling it out. You have your AI governance committee. They're establishing the rules of engagement. And once we kind of had that framework laid out, we're really encouraging all of our employee owners to experiment with AI. At the same time, what we're also doing is we're building out these data warehouses. So we're extracting every piece of data out of our ERP systems, out of our quality systems, our LMS systems, everything you can imagine, cleaning it up, organizing it. sure, you can use that for power of BI, but what we're working towards is how do we use that and layer in AI and agents on top of that data?

21:40And a hot topic within our organization is Industry 4.0. And what we see as a leadership team is that AI is the brains behind Industry 4.0. I'm getting some nods of yes right in front of me here. You also should be getting some people taking drinks of their beverages as well, based on that answer. And, you know, and the reality is if we're moving towards like digital factories, we have to figure out how to embrace AI. How do we use it to remove redundant tasks and allow our people to actually drive greater value and speed and keep our competitive advantage? All right. Joe, you've been sitting patiently here for a while.

22:27So we We were talking to Michael about grant programs. We were talking about employee ownerships and empowerment through AI with Megan. Slightly different question for you. Feel free to piggyback off any of these things, right? If any of you have picked up something that you want to add from one of the other panelists, by all means. But, Joe, I want to ask you about leveraging trade schools in the region as well, because I think when a lot of people out in the world think about Massachusetts and they think about education, it's boom, Harvard, boom, MIT. First things to come to mind, not surprisingly.

22:56but you're leveraging trade schools. Tell us about that, how that ecosystem is here, and what you're doing it to be successful at your organization. Sure, but I don't know if we need to take a break so everyone can refill their beer after all the AI discussion. We're coming to the end of our conversation, so we'll get our refills in a second. We just got a few more questions here. So we do use the trade schools, and they've actually worked both ways. So we've sent people to trade schools to help increase their skills, but we've also pulled people out of the trade skills schools so we're typically using the local high schools our votech votech schools um there's um blue hills there's southeastern there's south shore so we pull from all of the schools we typically pull in about six kids a year we'll have them it's typically around the senior year or junior year have them work through a semester, which typically ends in June, and then we keep them on through the rest of the summer.

23:58And then as they graduate, then we can hire them after they come out. So yeah, it's been a great feeder program. And I'll also mention, just not to leave off the universities, Northeastern, we've always got three co-ops there. We've got two interns now from UNH. So it's, and we've hired people coming out of those programs. Those kids have been great. It's always dangerous when I start lifting off universities because inevitably I leave off a key one or someone's alma mater. So thank you for adding UNH and Northeastern into the mix there. you know we've we've been talking about a number of different things so far from a workforce standpoint let's go into one that you know at least I didn't expect when we started this conversation Michael can you tell us a little bit more about the uniquely abled program because I I don't know how many other you know folks are familiar with this especially across the country I think that's a really great one that you're using out here and I'd love to hear a bit more about what that program looks like.

24:58Sure, happy to. I had a parent come to me in 2019 that found this Uniquely Able program in California. Ironically started from somebody who grew up in Eastern Massachusetts, which is 15 minutes away. I'll make a long story short. After a lot of starts in education, COVID hit, we got stopped in our tracks. And thanks to Jay Ash, one of my first actually co-chair of the AMC, who kept in touch and said, you know, what can I do? and I said, you know, I'd really like to give this program one more shot. He contacted Vinny DiMocito at Bridgewater State University, and we gathered a bunch of people together, launched what now is known as the Uniquely Able Academy at Excel at Bridgewater State University.

25:42We have three representatives from that program right there. We are currently recruiting for our fourth cohort, and the program revolves around adults, high-functioning adults that are on the spectrum. We took the 14-week Uniquely Able program and married it with the Excel program and made it a college year. So not only do they get the technical training at South Shore of Oak Tech, thanks to Paul Bellow, they get the life skills on campus, and several of the students live on campus. So they really can form the beginnings of a career. And I was really happy to learn just this week the initial cohort.

26:20There was three companies, Acherons being one of them, that hired the first three graduates. The person that we hired, the very first hire, went back to the program. We have since hired somebody from the second cohort who's a standout. But the other two hires, I talked to the owners this week via email, and both of them are still employed and doing quite well at Evans Machine and Bending Gear. And that speaks volumes. These individuals have the talents that assimilate quite nicely to advanced manufacturing. attention to detail, focused. They show up every day. They like repetitive tasks. They want to do good work.

26:56They're wonderful, wonderful students. And to take that population and take that unique pipeline with these unique individuals, it's truly a win-win. And one of the most incredible days of my life was the first cohort graduation when I had parents and grandparents coming up to me with tears in their eyes, telling them that we have given them and their families hope for the first time in their lives. And to me, it's a tremendous opportunity. We're recruiting for our fourth cohort right now. There are cohorts across the country. I believe there's a really strong one in Milwaukee, California, and a couple of other areas.

27:31But it's gaining traction, so much so that other areas in the state want to prop up a program that we've – they want to take that model and start to plop it in other parts of the state. So it's huge. Thank you.

27:48Awesome program. I love the holistic focus of it. I think that's the thing that stuck out the most. Plays to people, strengths, incredible things you're doing here with all the programs that you talked about. I basically have two questions left for all our panelists. And Megan, you will get to be our final finalist on this one. We'll be back in a moment. But first, a quick word from our sponsor.

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29:38So, Joe, we're going to start with you again on this one. This is kind of one of the summary questions, because as someone that is not from Massachusetts, one of the things that really stuck out as I've gotten to know this industrial community as we were preparing for this podcast is, you know, this is a state that really does seem to have a unique mix of blue-collar and white-collar talent. And I'd be very curious to hear from your perspective, you know, how does having that strong mix help this region? So Joe, Michael, Megan will go in that order. Well, I think from a manufacturing perspective, you need people with all different skill sets.

30:19And we're blessed to be where we are in Stoughton, that we have a great mix of people. We're able to draw from all walks of life. And what we do is we provide people opportunities for careers, not just a job. I mean, that's really what it's about is how do you provide a career of a well-paying job that can allow the person to start a family, raise a family, and stay with the company throughout the entire term. And that's ideally where we want to be. Awesome. Michael, what would you add? Well, just to piggyback on Joe's comment, you have the education, you have the talent, you have the lifestyle of ocean, mountains.

31:05The western part of the state is beautiful. So there's so much to offer. And you need high school graduates, you need college graduates, you need all sorts of talent. So there's so many different opportunities. I think our challenge continues to be, and I think we've done a better job at it, but it's the promotion of our industry. For too long and still in many places, people look at, and I'm going to use Bill Berrien's 3Ds and 3Ss term, they look at manufacturing as dark, dirty, and dangerous, when in fact it's safe, smart, and sustainable. And I'll even add two more Ss. Safe, smart, sustainable.

31:45I forgot the fourth, but the fifth one is it's – sustainable, safe, smart safe, smart, sustainable it's sexy and why do I say it's sexy? it's sexy because if you look at all the technology that we have gamers could assimilate all the gaming that's going on, these e-gamers they'd love to come work at a company like us and program the type of technology that we have, but they don't know that and making that link is so important opportunities like this, and thank you Chris for hosting this year and getting this out to the public because these are the types of events that can get the word out and change the image and get the parents and educators and guidance counselors.

32:25It's so, so important. All the work that we all do, Meg and Joe, myself, and others that are in attendance here, it's either to promote our industry or get around workforce development. Those are the two areas that we've got to continue to focus on and move forward. Yeah, I mean, Massachusetts, this is an outsider's perspective, but Massachusetts is a state that shows up. And I think it's indicative that we're talking about that here tonight, where this is the largest live show we have ever done. So thank you. The fourth S was stable. That was the one that was missing. But think about that. It's a stable.

32:59You know, when we have slowdowns, we don't get rid of people because we can't get them back. So we figure out how to keep them employed. So that was important. Excellent point. Megan, a lot of great points have been made so far. What have we missed? What would you add? I guess for me, the diversity of talent in manufacturing, everyone has a role. We all have to make something. We have to build a strategy. We have to execute to it. But the differentiator is an employee ownership. Everyone wins. It's not just a couple. Like I said, we're retiring operators as millionaires. So everyone in the organization feels like they have value to contribute, and they're also going to receive value with the success of the organization.

33:42So it doesn't matter where you sit within the hierarchy of a manufacturing company because every role is critical to the success and that's how the culture of an employee-owned company operates. Awesome. All right. One of the questions that I ask at the end of almost every Manufacturing Happy Hour interview is, what's something you wish I would have asked that hasn't come up yet? And this could be related to manufacturing. It could also be like, Chris, why haven't you asked me about Tom Brady's legacy yet? And what that means to us is folks from Massachusetts. So this is a choose-your-own-adventure.

34:19You know, Michael, I like that you highlighted, you know, the beauty of the state from West all the way out to Cape Cod. You know, what did we miss, right? And we will go the order that we started. Megan, you can lead off on this one. And then Michael and Joe, you'll wrap us up on this. So anything you wish we would have highlighted about the state that not only this audience here in Canton can learn tonight, but for the rest of the audience listening around the country and around the world? You didn't give me this question in advance. No, well, there's an opportunity. I'll jump in. I'll say Megan.

34:52Michael, you go first and then Megan, you can jump in. Apprenticeships. Our state has done a tremendous job investing in apprenticeship programs. Acting Rounds has an apprenticeship program. We've had, Diane, eight, nine graduates somewhere, and we have Sam, the graduate from the Unique Label Academy, actually is in an apprenticeship program now. And thanks to Jennifer Clifton-Larkson for reminding me that there's a federal tax credit of$5 ,000 when you have somebody graduate from that apprenticeship. $3 ,500, I'm sorry,$3 ,500. Does Mass have one too? Maybe I'm getting mixed up. I think Mass has one as well.

35:33There's a Mass and a federal. So the state's done a tremendous job there. And again, it's all around STEM manufacturing and promoting the work that we do. Awesome. All right, Joe or Megan, you can feel free to jump in on this. I think the biggest challenge that we face is people and how do you get good people? I think that events like this help highlight the importance of manufacturing to our state, to our country. I think the defense industry, it's incredibly important, but there's lots of important industries out there. And we all need good people. And I think that to the extent events like this can raise awareness and help with that pipeline of people, I think this is tremendously important.

36:22So thank you for hosting and thank you for having us. Thank you all for being a part of this. We're going to thank everyone up here in just a second. But Megan, I might help out with this one, because one thing that I wish we would have talked about that we haven't yet is you're talking about the great people that are here in Massachusetts. And your hospitality shined through when Scotland showed up a month ago to drink your entire town dry, which I'm glad we're doing this now because otherwise Trillium might be out of beer had we not done that. But as again, as someone that's not from here that got to watch the state from afar, that was just delightful watching folks from around the world come here.

37:07Enjoy the Red Sox. Enjoy your bar scene. It looked fantastic. So, Megan, any anything else you want to add here? It's OK to bypass on this one or you can just thank everyone for coming out or share a piece of advice for the audience. I was going to say that we probably didn't really talk a lot about succession planning and how do we stay competitive with manufacturing that continues to move overseas. So I'll kind of open it up to you two to hear what your thoughts are on that as president and owner of your organization. Yeah, put me on the spot, huh? I got my director of human resources out here.

37:53That's a great way to answer that question, Megan, by just asking another question to your fellow panelists. Jesus, you pivot fast. My hope, and I'm a second-generation business owner. I have three kids. I don't think they're going to come into the business. You never put out full hope. 50-year anniversary of AccuRounds, by the way. Give it up. But my ultimate goal is to run the company as a people-centric, focused company long after I'm gone. And however that moves on, that will be the focus and make sure that if any type of change takes place, that our team gets taken care of. Because they're the ones that do the work and they deserve to be recognized.

38:36You should totally look into employee ownership. That's a great call to action, Megan. Joe, take us home. Thank you. Well, it's funny. I do think ESOPs are underlooked. They were so popular a long time ago. They've fallen out of a little bit of favor, but still tremendous tax advantages to doing them. But we're part of a public company, so that's not our path. But we're always looking at succession planning, and you're always trying to think about who can move up, who's showing initiative, who you can give new tasks to and challenge. Because I think it's those challenges that kind of motivate people.

39:16And I think a little bit about the parts that we make, and something sticks with me. It was a quote from Captain Perella who said that we need to realize that the parts you're making go on a boat that your grandchildren could serve on. These parts are going to be around for 40-something years. And the pressures of the ocean, everything's trying to get you on a submarine. You've got a nuclear power plant. You've got weapons. You've got the oceans trying to crush you. Everything's got to work. so I think that's an awesome way to put into perspective what we're doing in manufacturing and the impact it can have on our kids on our grandkids thank you to all three of you for the conversation tonight hey everyone out there give it up for Megan Michael Joe and with that we're going to wrap this the way we do all our manufacturing happy hour interviews raise your glasses stay innovative stay thirsty thanks for coming out cheers massachusetts

40:31hey everyone thank you for listening thank you michael megan and joe for jumping on stage and thank you to our tour partners for making live shows like this possible hey thank you to you for listening as well. If you want to connect with any of our guests, make sure to go to the show notes page at manufacturinghappyhour.com and subscribe to Manufacturing Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts. If you ever want to catch a Manufacturing Happy Hour live show, if you want to find us on tour, go to manufacturinghappyhour.com slash tour to get the latest updates on where we are heading next. With that, thanks for sticking around, and we'll see you again next week.

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