Branding truths and tariff myths, with Autodesk’s Dara Treseder & Flexport’s Ryan Petersen

0:00If you're a Y Combinator founder hitting Series A, you could be hearing one phrase that keeps stalling big enterprise deals. We love your product, but we need to see your SOC2 report to make sure our customer data is protected. Compliance becomes a bottleneck. But there's a shortcut, AWS. AWS already maintains SOC2 compliance across more than 100 services, from CloudTrail to Security Hub. Meaning, instead of building it from scratch, you can inherit it and focus on scaling. It's the same playbook startups like Supabase and Substack use to unlock enterprise customers fast. Turn compliance from a roadblock into a competitive advantage.

0:40Get up to$100 ,000 in AWS credits and a free SOC2 consult at startups.aws. The business world moves fast, and you don't have time to wait for your AI to turn into ROI. Because any business can use AI. The real breakthrough is how you use it. IBM helps you turn AI into more than potential. It helps you turn it into smarter ways of working and ultimately scaling. Let's create smarter business, IBM. A brand is the sum of the promises we make and the experiences we deliver. I think Cracker Barrel learned, hey, this is too core. We can't touch this. I give bravery and courage for saying, hey, we messed up this, but they've got to evolve.

1:28As a brand, when you're using AI, you want to be clear with your customers. And with J.Crew, because they weren't transparent, they kind of got called out. So trust was lost. Trust is earned in drops, but it's lost in buckets.

1:50That's Dara Treseder, Chief Marketing Officer of Autodesk, recorded live at the Masters of Scale Summit in San Francisco on October 8th. In today's episode, we've combined two fast-paced segments from the summit. First, I talk with Dara about the highest-profile branding topics of 2025, getting her unvarnished read on Sidney Sweeney, Cracker Barrel, Taylor Swift, and more. Then in the second half of the episode, I talk with Flexport CEO Ryan Peterson about the five biggest myths around global trade and tariffs. Dara and Ryan are both uncommonly candid, including Ryan's advice about avoiding jail and what he calls, quote, dumb competition.

2:29So let's get to it. I'm Bob Safian, and this is Rapid Response.

2:40Please welcome the chief marketing officer of Autodesk, Dara Treseder.

2:51We're going to do this chat in two parts. We're going to kind of play two different games. First, I'm going to take you through four topics in marketing and branding right now. And then we're literally going to play a fast-paced game called Buzzword Bingo. Uh-oh. All right. So are you ready? Don't get me in trouble, Bob. I know. I'll try. I'll try. So we have some visuals for this first four. Okay? So first up, Sidney Sweeney's American Eagle ad. I literally said, don't get me in trouble, Bob. I know. So this ad, it sparked all kinds of controversy and discussion about, you know, genes versus genes.

3:35You and I talked before about what is healthy tension and toxic tension. So was this healthy tension, toxic tension? What does the reaction mean about where we are? Well, first of all, we are here at masses of scale with some of the biggest leaders in the world. And we're talking about American Eagle. I know we're not shopping. So I think they definitely check the tension box. Was it healthy? Was it toxic? Let's talk about it. Let's dissect it. Healthy tension is tension that moves the brand and the business forward. Great work must always have tension. If it doesn't have tension, it's not great.

4:11And it's not causing conversation. Healthy tension, when it moves the brand and business forward, it goes beyond awareness to drive actual acquisition and business results. Sometimes you can have awareness, and instead of acquisition, you end up with alienation. So that is where, instead of it being healthy, it kind of goes into the toxic space. I think that they checked the box on tension, they raised awareness, but was it healthy? There was a lot of alienation. You don't need a focus group to know that in this very polarized world that we are living in, when you use the word genes, and by genes I mean G-E-N-E-S, and then you show only one demographic, they're going to be people with thoughts, right?

4:55And there's going to be a lot of energy around that. You don't need to do a focus group or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on research to get to that point. Now, so there were some people that felt alienated. Did the awareness overall drive acquisition? We don't know yet. I think a good example of a brand that jumped into the conversation and drove awareness and acquisition is Gap, right? They kind of had a counter ad with Cat's Eye, and that drove a lot of acquisition. And Gap sales on TikTok are through the roof. So that's an example of healthy tension. Of using the tension to help. Of using the tension in a healthy way to drive not just awareness but acquisition.

5:34I think Ghana, the days where all publicity is good publicity, that some publicity we just don't need, you know what I mean? All right, let's try it. Let's go to number two.

5:47Bob.

5:52So I know I'm making it difficult for you here, huh? All right, let me, let me, let me. They said we were going to have fun. Let me frame it this way. Let me frame it this way, right? Like when, you know, when Cracker Barrel fans responded to the removal of this old timer from the logo, right? They sort of, they walked it back. And we've seen other brands backtrack like HBO, Walking Back Max, right? So are there situations, do you know in the situations where it's like, this is a cultural conversation that I'm losing? I can't drive this conversation versus like I just made a mistake. First of all, brands have a lot of power.

6:37because when we have brands where we're having commentary from everybody, from the president to your hairdresser, you know you've touched a nerve. And what I will say is, as a brand, Cracker Barrel had been experiencing declining sales, right? That's why they said, what can we do to ignite or spark the next wave of growth for the business? So we have to give them kudos for saying, hey, we can't just keep going down the path we're going. We need to change something. Now, when you're evolving a brand, because you have to either adapt or you die as a brand. You have to evolve. So they got check. We need to evolve.

7:14Now, there's the heart of the brand or the soul of the brand. Because what is a brand at the end of the day? A brand is the sum of the promises we make and the experiences we deliver. That is what it is. It is the sum of the promises we make and the experiences we deliver. The soul of the heart of the brand is at the core of that. For Cracker Barrel, it's around that Southern hospitality and comfort. Okay? That is a non-negotiable. I think with the logo change, I mean, y 'all can see the second logo. It's not exactly screaming Southern hospitality. It's not really screaming anything. It's pretty sanitized, right?

7:53It could be Panera Bread. You know what I mean? And so if you are someone who immediately you see this, you go to, this is changing Southern hospitality and comfort. So all of a sudden, you start to question, what is this brand going to deliver? And so it affects the trust with the customer because you're evolving something that is too core. So I think Cracker Barrel learned, hey, this is too core. We can't touch this. Let's look at other things that we can evolve. So I'm going to give them kudos for actually saying, hey, we listened, and we're going to not touch the heart or the soul of the brand.

8:30We will evolve something else. I don't actually think it's capitulation. I think it's smart. I think it's good stewardship of the brand. We're not in a perfect world. We're all going to make mistakes. I give bravery and courage for saying, hey, we messed up this. We're going to go back. All right. But they've got to evolve. So we're all going to be watching. They've got to make a choice, right? They've got to make a different choice. All right. Let's go to the next one. J.Crew's AI-generated ad. So this also sparked a lot of discussion. I know you're bullish about AI and Autodesk's Flow Studio.

9:06AI is used by a lot of creatives in the ad marketing community. How should folks think about using AI in their brands and their messages? And what are the risks? What are the opportunities? How do you think about that? So at Autodesk, our software is used to design and make anything, right? Whether it's products you use and love, movies and games we all enjoy, or it is used to make buildings we live and work in. Now, we are bullish on AI, but we are also team human. We are AI in service of humanity and not the other way around. And I think that's really important. So I think brands get it right when you are clear about what AI is and what it is not.

9:46AI can help all of us. It lifts the floor, but it's actually human ingenuity that is going to raise the ceiling. So there is still a space for humans in this AI narrative. Now, where J.Crew, I think, got it wrong was they weren't transparent about what AI was driving. And there is fear around AI. And it's not just fear for the sake of fear, but it's fear around being manipulated or being disenfranchised. So as a brand, when you're using AI, you want to be clear with your customers and be transparent so that they understand you're not trying to manipulate them. You're just being clear, and you're also not trying to disenfranchise them.

10:24And with J.Crew, because they weren't transparent, they kind of got called out, and they had to go back and edit the captions to show it was generated by AI. So trust was lost, right? Trust is earned in drops, but it's lost in buckets. So that transparency, I think, is important. And, you know, for example, at Autodesk, with Flow Studio, we are making sure we are clear that our AI is here to help creators, but creators are in control. It's like riding a tandem bike. The creator is deciding what direction we're going to go, how fast we're going to go. AI is simply helping providing that additional horsepower by automating some tedious tasks like scene integration.

11:03All right. We're doing one more, and then we go to the game. This is already hard, so I'm wondering what's happening here. I know. All right. So this is an image of the UK streetwear designer Tega Akinola. It's part of Autodesk's Let There Be Anything campaign. Partnerships are so important for brands right now. So how do brands associate and get the most authentic partnerships with creators, celebrities? How do we think about making sure you get the right choice so you get the right Romy, the right return on marketing investment? Yes, show me the Romy. Everything has to start with business impact.

11:41You know, first of all, you have to figure out how is this going to advance my brand objective and ultimately drive the results that I'm going for. So there are three key things you look at. First of all, is this an ad? It has to be an ad and a build. It should not be a detraction. And honestly, if it's going to be neutral, don't even do it. Do something else with your resources. So that ad and that build is really important. The second thing is you need to be pushing not just for reach, but also resonance. Because reach does not equal resonance. And you cannot compromise resonance for reach. Because if you're not getting both resonance and reach, you're ultimately not reaching that new target audience.

12:19And you're not expanding your demographic to get the needed business results. I think the third thing is you have to make sure that whatever partnership you're doing, it fits into the bigger picture and is a force multiplier, not a force divider. So that's the third thing you need to look at. I think when you check those three boxes, whether you're working with a creator or it's a brand partnership, that's how you get to romance. And if you're thinking, what should the math be? I like to use a one to three ratio. So if I'm spending a dollar, I want to make sure that I'm making at least three dollars.

12:49If I'm not going to make$3, there might be a better investment for those resources. All right. You ready for the game? I'm scared. All right. So these are buzzwords. I'm going to ask you overhyped or underhyped. Okay. You can give me a quick explanation if you want. We'll see how many we can get through in three minutes. Can you put three minutes on the clock? There should be a clock up there. All right. Ready? All right. All right. Number one, return to office mandates. It's appropriately hyped. Appropriately hyped. Good or bad? All right. It's good. It's good. I think we like to spend time in person.

13:26There is a space for in-person intentional gatherings and experiences. TikTok's algorithm. As a marketer, I think it's underhyped because you can reach a lot of people and drive a lot of results. As a mom, it is overhyped. Those kids need to get off TikTok, go outside, drink water, touch the grass.

13:49All right. Apple's brand power. Underhyped. Underhyped. Yes. Many tech brands right now, there is no trust. Apple's one of the few brands that people see. How many people y 'all use an iPhone? Who's using an iPhone? Look at that. Look. A sea of Apple people. There you go. All right. Tilly Norwood and the Velvet Sundown. You guys know them? They're AI artists. They're overhyped. I'm team human, okay? So overhyped. Human ingenuity is still going to be needed. I don't think we're ever going to get to a world where it's just AI taking over. I mean, I don't want to live in that world. Sheehan and Temu.

14:25Overhyped. I'm a sustainability queen. All right. Next year's World Cup in North America. Underhyped. Yay, USA. I'm excited. World Cup LA-28 Autodesk were the official designer make platforms. I do have to say that. All right. Here we go. Taylor Swift's power. so i think appropriately hype everybody's talking about taylor swift look i love my man too and if anyone was going to listen to my music nobody does i would also be writing an ode to him so look appropriately hype tell you who is under hype is tree paint her publicist give it up for tree pain and and also travis kelsey's also under hype we like a man who supports his powerful ambitious wife.

15:11Right on. All right. Ryle Reynolds, business exploit. He's underhyped. That man does everything from whiskey to Deadpool. Underhyped. I also work with him. LaBooBoo love. Overhyped. Too many in my house. I'm like, what is happening? I'm teaching my children about hoarding. We can't hoard LaBooBoo. meta's ar glasses i think today it might be overhyped but i think tomorrow it's going to be underhyped they're still figuring out the use cases but i'm bullish on bullish on it all right uh netflix's dominance underhyped k-pop demon hunters have taken over my we're going up like it's all right we're almost at the end of our time uh late night tv hosts underhyped God bless the late night TV hosts.

16:03All right. I think that's it. All right. Last one. Pumpkin spice. Underhyped. Get your pumpkin spice while you can. Starbucks, let us have it all the time. Dara, thank you. Thank you so much.

16:21I have to thank Dara for being willing to play the buzzword game and to take on some of the trickiest topics in marketing. Dara makes it all sound fun and shares important insights about positioning any business or brand. Coming up next, we're going to switch topics to global trade and tariffs. The mood of candor will persist, courtesy of Flexport CEO Ryan Peterson. That's after the break. Stay with us.

16:52Meet Nicole Nicholas, Capital One business customer and co-owner of Ansett Uncles, a plant-based restaurant and community space in Brooklyn, New York, that got its start from a need for unity. The inspiration, it was born from the desire to create a space that felt like home, where we can connect community culture, good food, and come together with family and friends. That's how we birthed aunts and uncles. Nicole and her husband, Mike, were fulfilling their dream of bringing people together out of their home kitchen. But they soon learned that the demand for community was greater than they knew.

17:23It became overwhelming and we were like, we need home, but not in our actual home. We realized that there was also a need in our community for something bigger in our neighborhood. So we had to find a place. Moving from a home operation into a storefront was a huge next step. But Nicole and Mike were able to take it on with the help of Capital One Business. It's not for the weak. As a small business, finding resources is super important because that's the way you'll be able to manage and scale. We would have never done that without having Capital One to be able to help us along the way. The cashback rewards are very helpful.

17:59You know, it just gave us that runway to be able to breathe a little bit. Then you get to focus on the cooking of the food and making the experience great. To learn more, go to CapitalOne.com slash business cards. Every leader knows this moment. You've got the vision, the strategy, the plan, but somehow the team isn't clicking. Deadlines slip, momentum fades, and here's the kicker. Disengaged employees cost U.S. companies nearly$1.9 trillion every year. At Project Management Institute, teams gain the skills they need to collaborate, deliver, and turn strategy into results because the real cost isn't the training.

18:43It's what happens when you don't. Project Management Institute. Empower your people. Turn potential into performance. Find the answers at PMI.org. Before the break, we heard Autodesk's Dara Treseder live at the Masters of Scale Summit break down the biggest marketing and branding lessons of the year. Now we switch gears to Flexport CEO Ryan Peterson, also recorded live, who assesses five major myths about global trade and tariffs. Let's dive back in.

19:22So, Ryan, I have created five myths for us. These are things that are based on sort of what I'm hearing from different folks in the business community. I'm going to go through them. I'd love your perspective on them. Are you ready? I'm ready. So myth number one is don't act on tariff announcements too quickly. policy could shift again. I remember you telling me about customs border protection, finding out about changes like on Truth Social, like things just keep changing. We have a Supreme Court case that's coming down the pipeline and it may actually, all the tariffs might just get refunded. And we'll find that out in the next couple of months.

19:59And then, by the way, for sure, the administration will claim that as a victory because the stock market's going to go way up. We did it again. But like when you're talking to clients, Do they like, yeah, we got to do things. We don't have to do things. Sometimes the best thing is to do nothing. You might say that's actually an action. It could be a radical action. You say, hey, we're going to stay calm. Some changes in supply chain take many years to play out. Like if you're going to move your production to a new country. We've seen this where people said, oh, OK, China doesn't work. We're going to set up production in India.

20:31And it turns out the tariffs on India are just as high as on China right now. So it's very difficult to make long-term decisions in a policy environment that changes so quickly. Are they looking over their shoulder at each other and saying, like, what's that one doing? Should I be doing that? Like, what can I do differently? Yeah, there's a lot of that. It's been very interesting. So we're a customs brokerage. We help companies figure out what duties they owe and pay them. And it's a really complex world, as you can imagine. There's every variety of product out there. And I'm used to being the expert when I talk to my customers.

21:02but now you know the CEOs they have to know their product at a level that I probably I don't know every single product and every rule and I'm just like a smile and nod like yeah yeah it's been really tough for us to be at that forefront trying to monitor what's happening you know and and interpret it for our customers and figure out give them advice what decision should you make let's move to myth number two uh the government has a plan don't worry they they know what they're doing everything's going to turn out great it's difficult to say i think there's maybe a plan i don't know if it's a good plan the reality is there's actually some pretty good reasons for us to be concerned about the lack of industrial production in the united states and uh and one of the problems in life though is you get a bunch of people in a room and say hey we got this problem we got to do something they're going to do something uh-huh and it doesn't always mean they're going to do the right thing.

21:56Or like, you know, yes, tariffs may actually be an effective way to stimulate manufacturing. The way they've been done so far, actually, I've met more companies that are removing, like shifting production offshore as a result of the tariffs, because you have to pay duties on the components that are coming in and on the machinery that you use. These sort of unintended consequences, second order impact. Difficult. Economies aren't meant to be centrally planned. All right, let's move to number three. Myth number three. China is in a better position to adapt to trade volatility than the U.S. And I'll have to say that I've heard this exactly the opposite way, too.

22:30I almost wrote this the other way, that the U.S. is in a better position to adapt to trade volatility than China is. Which is actually very illustrative that you could have written it both ways. And it does illustrate, yeah, you know, trade is a positive sum scenario. Both parties do trade because they're both made better off by doing it. And this idea that you can win a trade war is sort of inherently is wrong. You win a trade war by just not having one and doing trade in both parties.