Anthony Scaramucci: Elon, DOGE & America’s Fate Under New Leadership (w/ Salim Ismail) | EP #132

27:43But one would hope that that type of near death experience would hopefully transform it. Maybe he'll sit there and say, I've got four years. I'm going to bring Peter in to learn about abundance, I'm going to lean Salimon to learn about entrepreneurship. And I'm going to push an agenda that's healing and unifying to the country. That could happen. But there's another scenario that happens that could be ugly for the country and it would be sad if it happens. What do you think is the worst case scenario? Oh, I mean, unfortunately, the worst case scenario is he takes the project 2025 playbook and he begins a process of deportation.

28:22So the deportation would be cataclysmic. I would hope somebody like Elon Musk is a very smart man would get in his ear and beg him not to do that because the deportation comes with SWAT vehicles, armored vehicles, concentration camps. It's a it would be one of the bloodiest cultural exercises and it would ruin the welcome mat that this society presents. Lee Kwan -yue told Graham Allison the Dean of the Kennedy School of Government. The founder of Singapore said that America will always be preeminent. Why do you feel that way? Because of the welcome mat, you can come to America from any part of the world, rich or poor, you can arrive in America and in five short years, you become an American.

29:10Maybe it's an Indian American, maybe it's a Greek American, maybe it's an Italian American, but you become an American. It's very, very hard to do that in other cultures, a result of which the balance sheet of intellectual capital that can arrive in America is unlimited. If you graphically deport 15 million people from America, and again, don't go by me. That's what he's saying. That's what Tom Homan is saying. Okay, if you do that, you will destroy the fabric of what this thing represents to the rest of the world. So I agree with you, but there are two sides of that equation right now. We, you know, we carefully want to agree with me because I'm, you know, I'm on the Trump enemialist.

29:54And I think Peter, three days ago, Trump's head, I was a major loser on truth social. So how much do you think Trump loves me on a scale of one that's down? I got that to the 9 .5. I agree with you. Why is he talking about that? I agree with you on the mass deportation. I do believe there is a percentage of those individuals who are criminals who should not be in this country, who we should be looking at removing them out of society. I also think, unfortunately, that we send so many people back with a PhD that they earned at MIT, or Harvard, or Stanford, and then they're exited from the country.

30:29It's perverse and in reverse. course. And so how do we stamp a green card, a staple green card on those diplomas? These individuals who come to the US to get the best education, they, you know, there should be in fact not only a welcoming, but like, you know, a requirement for them to stay in country and build their companies. You know, we have our native Indian, Indian here, We have the CEOs of the top tech companies in the US have come from India. It's an incredible engine where we can attract those who have the aspiration and the drive and the willpower to the United States. We should keep those people here for sure.

31:14So listen, we agree, but you have to understand something. When the leader of the free world and the leader of a country that Lincoln called the last best hope for mankind is using the rhetoric of dehumanization on non -white immigrants to the country. Okay, when he's dehumanizing those people and he's talking about those people as us versus them and vermin and they're eating dogs and cats, okay, it's very, very bad symbolism for the United States. It just is. It's not that's not the symbolism. Okay, that we should be projecting in the United States. Okay, you can get Trump policies that you may like without that type of brutal rhetoric That creates Nazis walking around in Columbus, Ohio this weekend Swat stickers getting sprayed on synagogues.

32:05We don't need that Peter We do not need that. I will continually speak out against that. It's totally unnecessary. Yes It's a rough sport politics. I get it but we don't have to go into the realm of hate speech. We just don't have to do that. I want to go into the realm of Bitcoin. So you've got a book coming out on December 4th. The little book of Bitcoin, you just released a revision of the little book of hedge fund. We're gonna put a link in the notes here for your pre -orders, for a little book of Bitcoin. And today, OMG, we're... Thank you for your help on it, by the way. You're welcome by the pleasure to have contributed in a small way.

32:48Today we're at $94 ,000 for Bitcoin and Selene, the bet you took by mortgaging your house and spending it on buying Bitcoin. Good move, buddy. Good move. So $94 ,000, you know? My wife wouldn't let me do all of it, but yeah. Well, okay. Time to mortgage again and put more in. So here's a question, right? So Kathy would is predicting by 2030. We'll see $1 .5 million to $2 million per Bitcoin. I've seen higher and lower estimates. I remember this great cartoon that had Father and the son talking and it said, Dad, do you remember when Bitcoin was under $100 ,000? And we're seeing that. We're seeing this massive increase.

33:36So, Moch, what's your prediction? What are you feeling what you seeing and let's talk about underlying forces here? Well, the first thing I want to say is that I didn't see it. I got it wrong. I went to this wonderful event at Singularity University. And I heard Salim speak and I heard you speak and you may or may not remember this. But I think you wrote actually you contributed to my books. So you do remember I met Al Finney and he was describing to us what Bitcoin was. and I don't know, was it $100 ,000, $200? I don't remember exactly what was. It was about $200 ,000, but I didn't understand it.

34:13Yeah. Okay, about, okay, $300. So I didn't understand it. And so as Selim said, Michael Seller says you get Bitcoin at the price you deserve, it took me a long time. And I finally got it. I started buying it in October of 2020, November, December, and the price for the block. Yeah, at the average price of the block, I bought was 17 ,000. I've held every coin. I bought more coins in the weakness into 2022. But the reason I'm starting with, I didn't understand it, is there might be viewers and listeners to your show that are our age -peter that may not understand it or they may be afraid of it. I appreciate you bringing up my book, because I tried to write a book the way Selene wrote that entrepreneur's book, you know, 10 or so years ago, about what it actually is.

35:04So you could open the book. It's not going to intimidate you. You could read what it actually is. And then maybe at the end of the book, I would make the case, this is the best investment of my lifetime. And I would make the case that this is probably still got a 10x in it. I would think it can get to the market capitalization of gold. And what I would say to people is, I don't know anyone that's done the homework, Peter, Selim, anyone that's done the homework that hasn't gone towards Bitcoin. I've never met somebody who said, you know, Peter, I did a tremendous amount of homework on this, hours and hours and hours.

35:42And I wouldn't touch this with a 10 -foot pole. Paul Tutor Jones, Stan Druckenmiller, Howard Lutnik. I could name allegiance of people. Michael Seller. Michael Seller told me and he'll tell you this. Bitcoin is a joke. As what he said, okay, it was like 2016, 2017. He started. Yeah, early on. He started buying Bitcoin in August of 2020. It's first Bitcoin he bought. 2020. And then he got a new conversation with my partner and says, you guys have to buy some of this Bitcoin. You know what he said? Once I figured it out, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep once I figured it out. I think his framing of do a hundred hours research on it and then see.

36:29And it's really an arbitrage on intellect and studiousness is what it is. That's a huge, huge framing it for me. Yeah, so what I would say to you too, okay, and I would say to your viewers and listeners, Please give Bitcoin a chance. Okay, and recognize, like me, Michael Seller, perhaps the two of you and others, we did start out a skeptics about what it actually was, and until we fully understood it, we didn't gain confidence in it as being part of our investment portfolio. Can I tell you a quick seller story before we go on to something else because you'll enjoy this? I'll be seeing Mike McSquare.

37:06I call Seller. Okay, so I call Seller, and I say, Michael, I need you to write the interview. introduction my book. Happy to do it. But I need the manuscript and I gotta read the book. I don't know wrong. I said him the manuscript. He calls me late August and he says mooch. I said yes sir. He said, you know, I hate the last chapter of your book. I said, oh god, what, what, what, what, what I'm looking through the, he said, yeah, he goes, you say at the end of this book, after you wonderfully explain this thing, and I learned a lot in this thing actually a lot of stories that you put up the amount of distributions, all different types of stories, a lot, learned a lot.

37:43But your last chapter says that someone should put 2 % of their money in Bitcoin. Let me ask you something. How much of your net worth is in Bitcoin? I said, Michael, 55%. It's a 55%, okay, it says you're 55 % in Bitcoin. So why are you recommending 2 %? Let me ask you something. You said this is the best investment you've come across. Yes, Michael, do you have 50 other investments that are as good as this, I said, no, Michael. Then why the hell are you putting 2 %? I said because I have no balls and I'm under great regulatory scrutiny as a registered investment advisor. So we wrote the last chapter, and now the last chapter regals that story.

38:24And I say I'm at 55. I'm supposed to tell you to be at two, but you should pick a number that's good for you. Yeah, it's my largest invest it's my largest asset myself. Seleme. Where is it fair in your portfolio? Yeah, it's in it's not for me. It's in the 40 % range 35 to 40%. What I love about it is as time goes by the percentage of my portfolio represents. It's the amount of your portfolio. So it's moving up the percentages and your portfolio. It's fantastic. For me, the book by Jeff booth the price of tomorrow. Yes, great. What nails it. Okay. Where he says that we're growing the global economy with 4x, the debt per dollar increase in GDP.

39:10And that just tells you everything you could possibly need to know. And I love the back to the technology framing, which is that when they floated off the gold standard, they did not know the technology was deflationary. And so more advanced technologies cost a lot for you could borrow $10 million, build a TV factory, and a year later, those TVs should be worth more or cost more. But no, the TVs are worth half as much a year later. And if you borrow $10 million to chase after a deflationary technology, you're never getting money back. It's a good point. I mean, so there's so many different reasons to own it.

39:46But I'm grateful for the people like Michael Seller who have been great, evangelists of it. Grateful to you, Peter. You introduced me to a grateful to you, Selene. I can fast, I didn't understand it. And again, if you're out there, you don't understand it. Please listen to us and take the time to learn more about it. You know Michael Selen, I were roommates at our fraternity together. Didn't you hear that? MIT, right? Yeah, MIT together, right? Yeah, I'll tell you some fun stories when we're not on there. Yes. So I look forward to that. We hit 94 ,000 per Bitcoin today, pretty amazing. I was like, can I move money fast enough a few days to go to get it at 90?

40:27No. But the question is, if my head of finance is listening, let's still move that money in. When's the best time to buy Bitcoin? Now. Yeah, today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As fast as you can. Yeah. And I have no interest in it other than if enough people buy it, the price goes up. but that's a different story. You know, where is there any risk that you foresee? You know, we've talked about Sleem on previous episodes, quantum computing, breaking various encoding, and whether we can get quantum encryption up, and whether that can work. You know, you've made the point that Satoshi's wallet, which is now worth how many billions now?

41:1370 billion? Is the greatest. It's more because he's got one million tokens and we're at 94 it's 94 billion So, you know, you can do that. So whatever it is 94 When that gets hacked then it's time to work. It's the greatest ex -price ever If you if you can achieve hacking Bitcoin you get 94 million billion dollars, but but hold on This is this is an important distinction here. Yeah, is you could hack the wallet right you can get somebody's private key But that doesn't break Bitcoin right, right? So quantum encryption may solve the encryption issue but it doesn't solve the distributed nature of the token.

41:49So you have resiliency at two levels there. Well, here's what I would say to both of you guys. I would say that one thing that I would worry about, and this is an existential thing, is we, you know, listen, I, you've got people in the Scandinavian region of Northern Europe preparing themselves for nuclear war. Okay, and so we know that Vladimir Putin has changed his rules of engagement in terms of using a nuke. And so, you know, if we're going in that direction, it's going to hurt Bitcoin. It's going to hurt other assets, and it will put us in a situation, an unknown situation. Why? You know, and so what I was saying, here's my question, I understand, if the world was going to hell in the hand basket, I would imagine that for some degree, because you can't eat your Bitcoin, you can't eat your gold.

42:47It's better to have a farm, but to some degree, Bitcoin would seem to be the most protected asset across national boundaries. And why isn't it, why isn't disruption in economies and governments increasing the price of Bitcoin for security purposes? So it's not about increasing or decreasing it. It's about your quality of life and it's about your ability to use it if you need it to use it because if you destabilize the global order to the point where we're irradiating each other on the planet, that is an existential threat to every part of your asset portfolio. And that's an existential threat to your standard of living and your great grandchildren standard to living.

43:33And so we've been able to avoid this since the 1940s because there have been rational actors in control of these warheads. And you can't, you have to pray that a regional conflict, you see that the Europeans see the conflict differently than us guys. When you go to the European capitals, what do they say to you? Well, Hitler walked into Poland in September of 1939, okay, and it took one year, but he ended up in France and he ended up in France in June of 40 and he ended up bombing the UK in September. And what I would say to you guys, Finland and Sweden were not members of NATO for 74 years. Yet in the 75th year, they raised their hand and said, look, we'd like to join NATO.

44:21And so there's a threat going on. And if that thread is nuclear, okay, yes, maybe your Bitcoin would go up because of the instability, Peter, and I accept that, but you're going to have so many problems. And I'm going to have so many problems, Alene, people listening. Okay, we have to get to the world that Peter wants. And you've written some amazing books about this, and I often cite your books, but to get to that world of abundance and get to that world of technological advancement where we're deepening the wealth of everyone and I'm talking about lower middle income people. Uplifting all of humanity.

45:01Uplifting all of humanity. The first thing we have to do is not kill each other. That's the number one priority. We have to be engaged in civil discourse, rational discourse. The bellicosity of Donald Trump's rhetoric is not beneficial. It just isn't. We can pretend that it is and we can make allowances for him, but we can't do that. Any more than we can accept that we're going to lower the threshold for nuclear weaponry deployment in Europe or potentially in the U .S. You've got people on national TV in Russia talking about blowing up a lot. Everybody, I want to take a short break from our episode to talk about a company that's very important to me and could actually save your life or the life of someone that you love.

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47:10And we provide them to you at our centers. So if this is of interest to you, please go and check it out. Go to fountainlife .com, backslash, Peter. When Tony and I wrote our New York Times bestseller life force, we had 30 ,000 people reached out to us for fountain life memberships. If you go to fountainlife .com, backslash, Peter will put you to the top of the list. Really it's something that is, for me, one of the most important things I offer my entire family, the CEOs of my companies, my friends, it's a chance to really add decades onto our healthy life spans. Go to fountainlife .com, backslash, Peter, it's one of the most important things I can offer to you as one of my listeners.

47:57All right, let's go back to our episode. There's this America first approach, Anthony, that is for me a threat to the heck on many of the dollar, right? Because if you stop being the world's policeman, there's a higher chance that people stop using the dollar. Do you see that correlated and do you see that as a real threat? Of course I see that. Of course I see that correlated. I'm going to recommend a book to both you called America First. It's by H .W. Brands. And America first is the first America first movement, which was a hostile movement, sort of by Charles Lindbergh and Father Cofflin, you along.

48:35And anytime you move in that direction, you create legal instability. Okay? And so if we're going with America first and the America first movement challenges the system, this unbelievable legal system that's very predictable in the United States, the property rights of the United States, you know, you have impractical and unpredictable property laws in places like Russia and China because you don't have a dispassionate legal system. Okay, and so you don't have the legal precedent to protect you no matter who the ruler is. And so if you move in that direction, you lose dollar hegemony and let me provide a quote to you from the Leviathan.

49:20350 years ago, Thomas Hobbes wrote the following paragraph, and I'm paraphrasing, but you'll get it, what Hobbes said that the world has its greatest level of peace. When one hegemon, with military superiority over the other nations, uses the force of its military might to put down the inter -nessant conflicts around the world. So in other words, it's a force for good. Pax Romana, Pax Britannia, whatever the vagaries are of the colonialism, stuff like that. I'm just talking about the military suppression. Okay, Pax Americana. And so what Hobbes said three hundred and fifty years ago, they teach at West Point, and they say that we need to be a force for good.

50:05You know, when Trump was talking about the, why aren't they paying their fair share? I was on the campaign plane with him in 2016. I said, Mr. Brennan, I want to provide some historical context. Our military leadership actually did not want them to pay their fair share. Anybody look at me? What the hell are you talking about? Why is that? They wanted military hegemony. They wanted military superiority. They did not want Germany or Japan to rearm after the Second World War. So even though we had that treaty in 49 related to NATO, they allowed them to have that so that we could be a form factor of 10 over the other people because we saw ourselves, right?

50:50We are wrongly as a benevolent democracy. Okay? And so, yes, that whole idea, that rhetoric threatens that position. Okay? And so, that's why I want to be secretary of the Constitution. I think that world, safety and predictability and stability, I think no everybody believes that is key. Let me share this quick video here. This is, so Anthony, you're gonna be on stage with me in March at the Abundance Summit. We have a two hour session on. Big, big honor to be invited there. Thank you. A pleasure, buddy. And in Kathy Woods, gonna be with us as well at the summit in early March. Let me play this quick video of Kathy and let's talk about it.

51:39We have a 2030 target. it. In our base case, it's around $650 ,000. In our bull case, it's between $1 .5 million. Now remember, we were the first public asset manager to gain exposure to Bitcoin in 2015 at $250. And we still at $90 ,000, I think we have a long way to go. All right. Thoughts. Well, you know, I not only agree with her, I admire her because she was shaken to the core by the financial media in 2022 and she was unwavered and I'm also an investor. I will fully disclose you. I'm an ARC investor. And so I have a lot of admiration for her, but I want to point out something to you. What she's talking about is insignificant in terms of the overall global market capitalization of assets.

52:31So let me just explain that. Let's do that. That's important. Let's use the $18 trillion number, which is what the total capitalization is of gold. And let's stipulate for viewers and listeners that gold is perceived as a store of value by people around the world. Okay, but there's, you know, tens, hundreds of trillions of dollars in it. Do you still own gold? Do I own gold? Yes. I don't own gold. I don't own gold. But many people are age, Peter, do own gold. Do you know what I own? Does that an all -time high? Yeah. I went back in 2008. This is pre -myabundance mindset, exponential mindset. 2008, when the economy is being hit by the housing crisis and all, these predators will call you up and say, hey, you need to buy gold.

53:20You need to buy gold and have it available. And so I bought a few ounces of gold just to have them in the safe so that if I ever, if martial law came in, I need to go and trade gold for food, that was available. I went on TV, I forget what it was, CNBC, I think, in 2014 and 2015, say, sell your gold by Bitcoin. I wish I had sold even more and bought only Bitcoin. coin. So $18 trillion. And what's the total market capitalization of Bitcoin today? Also, so it's 1 .9 trillion. Yeah, just 2. Yeah, okay. I'm just under 2. Okay. So we're, you know, forgive me because this thing's updating every moment.

54:08But let's say it's 1 .9 for the sake of this argument. If it goes 10x, it becomes an equivalent in the overall asset tabulations of the global clappable equivalent to gold. And so, you know, we know that technology, the portability, the immutability, the scarcity of Bitcoin, it should trade to a higher multiple than gold. And that's why Kathy saying her bull case, one and a half million, you know, would get you to the $25 trillion number. But here's the thing I would tell listeners. At 18 trillion, and it's not even a pimple on the ass of the global economy. Is everybody understand that? Yeah, gold has a 1, 2, 3 % asset allocation, big deal, central banks own gold.

54:59But we're talking about something at $18 trillion that is a non -event in terms of the overall capital allocation. But let me tell you what's gonna happen because I've spent 35 years on Wall Street, less my 11 day fiasco in Washington. But let me tell you what's gonna happen, okay? These people are going to sell this idea to their investors. The great Wall Street sales machine, we suck at so many things on Wall Street Fellows, but selling is not one of them. And there are legions of financial advisors. There are legions of financial consultants. There are PowerPoint presentations coming out of fidelity and BlackRock and PowerPoint point, the change is coming out of galaxy that are absolutely legendary and you're going to get people off zero.

55:48Okay. Now, before you came on, Peter, Selene told me, and I don't know the answer to this, but Selene told me that he thinks approximately 20 % of the Bitcoin has gone missing as a result of early adoption. Somebody lost their hard drive, somebody lost their laptop. So I don't know, let's say that's three and a half to four million Bitcoin. So you're telling me because we've got to mine it over the next hundred years. Let's say there's 19 million that we think is out there. Four million is gone. We have 60 million global million ares. We have 15 million Bitcoins. So, you know, you tell me what's gonna happen, okay?

56:32I believe that this asset will trade to that million and a half dollar number. And if you get the regulation right in the deepest, most liquid capital market in the world, the United States, we have a very friendly crypto congress coming in and a crypto president. Okay. I think this stuff happens fast. And can I say one last thing is very important. We're at prices right now that we should have been at in January of 22. This got suppressed by Gary Gensler. You had a approval of the Bitcoin futures ETF. The administrative law required you to approve the cash ETF right away. We didn't do that. We had to have a lawsuit with that man.

57:17And here we are now. All right, so let's react to this Washington Post headline here. Trump i's pro crypto candidates for federal financial agencies. Do you know these folks here, Anthony? What do you think of them? I do. I know Hester very well. I know Dan Gallagher. I've been on television with Dan Gallagher. Christian Carla was come to my conferences. I work with the man Gary Gensler at Goldman Sachs. Paul Atkins is actually one of my best friends from high school, went to law school with Paul Atkins. So yes, I know those people very well. We know that Gary is obviously surprising because he did teach a class at your alma mater that was pro crypto, but he decided politically he needed to be anti -crypto.

58:08One will, some day have to ask him why because he knows the promise of that technology, but those other people will be very good for the industry. And here's a Fox News article here is at Pennsylvania, a housing introduces Bill, will implement a strategic Bitcoin reserve. Talk about this one. So this is monumental on so many different levels because what they're basically telling you is that this is gonna be an important strategic asset globally and they are looking at this thing. And if Kathy, what is right? And I believe she is, you're going to buy a dollar at six cents right now. If that thing goes through a million dollars, I predicted well you can buy it at nine cents ninety or point nine four cents.

58:57And so yes, I think that will be the first of many. There will be a avalanche of corporates, an avalanche of sovereigns, an avalanche of states that do exactly that. And by the way, the state of Wisconsin, this is a beautiful story. They put a hundred and fifty million dollars into iBIT, the BlackRock ETF and then the guy was asked, well, why did he do that? He said, hey, listen, if you're not long Bitcoin, you're short Bitcoin. Someday, some consultants come into my office and they're going to tell me that I need to own stocks and bonds and hedge funds and private equity. They're going to say, you know, you need a one or two percent position in Bitcoin and I'm going to be like short Bitcoin.

59:40Why not own it now? And so when they eventually get there, I've already got my position at a lower cost basis. And so that's also happening, guys. Yeah. So where is this going in the long term? The stat I saw that I loved was if you put 1 % of the Fortune 1000 puts your Treasury in Bitcoin, just that drives it to a million dollars of Bitcoin. And I think there's a bigger picture here, which is that there's about 600 trillion and global assets, but half of that is real estate. And so in that, Anthony's absolutely right, this like gold is still a couple of percent on that. It's on it's a dot on that whole picture.

1:00:19I said it was the opportunity for being on the ass of the economists. I'm trying to be graphic for you. I'm trying to be Canadian so I'm a little more polite.

1:00:30It's just got so much range to go. And in the absence of anything else, a true deflationary limited scarcity model like this gives you unbelievable upside. and again, 15 years later, nobody's found a way of hacking it. And even the guys that I know that built Cosmos and built Ethereum and so on are like, you know, we first hated the proof of work thing. So we built proof of stake networks. Now we see the proof of work as a really powerful foundation because the act of doing the work just gives you so much confidence in the foundational aspects of it. So just watching the kind of the dominoes topple everywhere that I can see around this.

1:01:09It's... Unknown to the majority of the people. Okay, I went to a 35 -year reunion at Goldman Sachs. I started there in August of 1989. They gave me five minutes to speak. I said, guys, I just want to do a survey. How many of you in this room own Bitcoin? Nobody. How many of you have kids that own Bitcoin? Maybe three or four and there was 150 people in the room and so it's so early and it's so scarce. Okay, and then when somebody says it's rap poison, Buffett says it's rap poison, it's rap poison, but ask him, has he done any work on it? Does he understand the technical properties that you've described?

1:01:59does he understand where it fits in terms of the Neil Ferguson checklist of how we think about money and stores of value? Okay, this thing is technologically perfect for that. And that's not my quote, that's Michael Sailors. I'm just saying, but people, what you just said, there's only 5 % and global adoption. This is where Web 1 was in 1999. Would you just said 95 % of the available investors does not know? Let me give an example. I'm sorry. No problem. I talk about what I call the 6Ds, which is a way to think about and predict the impact of technology on different industries. Anything you can digitize enters a period of very slow deceptive growth and eventually disrupts.

1:02:49And along the way it dematerializes, it demonetizes, and it democratizes. So we've seen that the first 3D printers were these little cross -slingking with ultraviolet light stereolithography. And it was very slow and very deceptive in the beginning. And now we're 3D printing entire rockets, we're 3D printing homes. You know, it's disrupting industries. You know, the Kodak digital camera that was devised in Kodak Labs was, you know, 0 .01 megapixels originally, then 0 .02, then 0 .04, and 0 .08 all looked like zero. And Kodak ignored the digital camera, and it put them out of business when it digitized and dematerialized and then democratized where these things, we have happy snaps now in the trillions.

1:03:41And so what we're seeing here is that Bitcoin is in the same area. It was deceptive in very beginning, right? When it was going for pennies to dollars, 300 bucks, it was insignificant. Well, guess what? It's now at $100 ,000, almost there. It's becoming disruptive. And it has dematerialized our financial systems, dematerialized banks and traders and exchanges. and it is being, it's democratizing access. So I think this is just one of the normal transitions that we're seeing in this exponential growth curve across industries. Selim, I am curious, a decade from now, is Bitcoin something which is what nations are basing their reserves on, what companies are basing the reserves on how fast are we going to see this transformation?

1:04:42And there is a point at which it flips in which you need to have what you're doing based on a Bitcoin platform. When do you think that's coming? Every treasury secretary in the world is looking at this now, right? And every Fed and every central bank, they can't not look at it. At some point, the braver ones will start over. And then you're right, there'll be a flipping point, and then the whole thing will go. I was asking Jeff Booth about this, right? Because the key questions, when do we hit that little tipping point? He's like, which snowflake creates the final snowflake that has the avalanche come down?

1:05:18It's hard to predict that one. All you know is the avalanche is going to happen. And so you basically bet on the avalanche on that sense. I think this is I would take I would say it takes about another year or two in the middle of some of this uncertainty we're dealing with and people will go, oh my god, I have to be in it and then it'll just start a cascade from there. That's my rough guess. You know, I agree. I guess the only thing I wanted to say from an example point of view is you are going to have a permissionless based transfer of wealth system. And so when I went to Rome for the first time, I was 21.

1:05:56It was 39 years ago. I waited on line at the post office to buy a calling card to call my mom. It was $15 US. Okay, and it gave me five minutes of calling time, $3 a minute. Now I can go to Rome, I can log into any internet cafe, and I can FaceTime my mom for no dollars a minute. Or any Wi -Fi. So to understand what, yeah, so what's going to understand, understand what's going to happen, you have seven trillion dollars that were spending globally to verify transactions, to codify transactions, credit card fees, wire fees, all different types of ancillary third -party verification that ends with this cryptology, that ends with this blockchain, and said differently, two guys came to see me from El Salvador, or economic advisors to the president.

1:06:53They said if we can set up a wallet to wallet transfer, we have 15 million expats in the US. They want to send money to their parents or family. They've got to go to Western Union. $0 .10 on a dollar goes to Western Union. So if a thousand, they're all unbanked guys. They're all unbanked. $0 .10 goes to Western Union. $0 .90 goes to mom and dad. They would say $400 million a year with a wallet to wallet transfer over the blockchain. So you guys know, because your technology's, when it works better, it's more efficient and it saves money, it gets adopted. And even if the government doesn't like it, the government hated Uber, who liked Uber to people like Uber?

1:07:38Yeah, I talk about countries that made Uber illegal as the anti -technology nations, you don't wanna start your startup in.

1:07:49We're seeing a a quick side story on Uber just of course of course. Yeah, I'm gonna by the way I have travel I have I have Travis the the founder Uber is gonna be a speaking at a Bunny in 360 as well and we'll be talking about moonshots so you'll have a chance to ask him or tell these additional stories so so if you're as ago one of my community members says hey can you help me I've got a meeting with the finance minister of France and I would love to have some guidance I'm like, yeah, what's he going to meet about? He says, yeah, he's got one question, which is, how did he shut down Uber? Because the taxis go on strike, the buses go on strike, the airport goes on strike, the President yells at him as life's a mess.

1:08:30So he's like, I need to figure out a way of shutting down Uber. So he's a five minutes research and around Paris, you have the volume of the suburbs of North African horrible, crime -infested neighborhoods. It turns out the French government has spent $40 billion over the decades trying to solve of that problem with zero outcome, except over 18 months previous because of Uber primaries of drop 10X because they're all out driving. So this guy's trying to shut down the thing that's saving him a $40 billion problem. And those are the little ancillary benefits that people don't see when you see this type of systemic change.

1:09:08It's incredible. How do you think about the age curve for Bitcoin adoption, Anthony? I'm, you know, is it something that younger, adopt it faster? Is it a generational issue right now? No question. Are generation me and you, okay? I don't know how old Sleem is, but you're an old bastard as am I. By the way, you look fantastic. What are you? 80, 90. And you know, you don't, I'm 95 years old. I think it'll look great for 95. Yeah, amazing. And by the way, my face is pinned back. So, my face is pinned back like Joan Rivers. Okay, I've got enough Botox in my face to kill a snake. I've all done something.

1:09:55But I am taking the Peter D. Montes cocktail of supplements that he suggested to me about eight years ago, just so you know. But I think our generation is gonna miss it. Frankly, again, like I said, had 6 % adoption globally. If you're 60, you're not buying Bitcoin 20 years from now at 80. And I think our generation is going to miss it. Some people will get it. There are people in our generation. Howard Marks told me he hated Bitcoin. Obviously, the CEO of Oak Tree, multi -billionaire, but his son got him into it. So there will be a group of people from the 30 years junior to us that knock on the melons of their parents and say, hey, I don't know what you're doing, but you have to have some of this in your portfolio.

1:10:41I asked my mom, God bless her, she's 88, and I said, where are you putting your distributions? And, you know, show me your portfolio. I said, you gotta put it into Bitcoin. Mom, please do that. And she calls me back and she says, my financial advisor Morgan Stanley won't allow it. And they don't have a mechanism for doing it. And I'm like, that's immoral. I mean, it pisses me off. I said, change financial advisors. You know, there's something happening in the younger generation that is really fascinating because I've been dragged into this entire NFT world over the last Two three years and you sit in these discord channels where they're trading NFTs and now trading ordinals and whatever and What's fascinating is you never ever ever ever hear the word US dollar?

1:11:25It's all Ethereum or it's all Bitcoin so the unit of account for this next generation is not tied to the dollar But for us and everybody older than us, we only think we ever knew is the dollar. And therefore there's something really big, because a mindset shift is that that state change is going to allow them to be flexible as to what they view as where their stores of value are. I think that's a game changer for the next general. I have a question for both of you guys. I agree with that. You go ahead. So I remember 2017 as Bitcoin was peaking back then. Everybody was buying and trading shit coins 24 hours a day.

1:12:05It was, and I looked in my treasure, you know, hard wallets and said, I have all these coins, half are dead, a few are still sort of like barely alive. What do you think about anything other than Bitcoin? What do you think of Ethereum? What do you think of other cryptocurrencies? is there anything else worth looking at? You know, so listen, I, I, I'm a big believer in Salana as a, as a utility token, as a layer one utility token. It's, it's got properties I like. It's very fast, low gas fees. It's easy to build on. It has a big TVL big community. And I imagine a day to Saleem's point about where he lived in a dollar -based world, but now our kids don't live in that world.

1:12:56I'm gonna imagine a day five years from now where this phone that I'm holding is going to have a tokenized version of my Disney stock, a tokenized version of Walmart, a tokenized version of Starbucks. It'll likely be on Salana. I walk into Starbucks and they say to me, hey, we're having a share of our purchase going on here. And so that $4 coffee we're gonna give it to you for $3 .50, but can we take a sliver of your stock out of your portfolio from your phone. Or the same thing could be happening at Walmart or Home Depot. And I think that stuff is gonna happen on Ethereum or Solana. Okay, but I like Solana better because I just think Solana is a better mouse trap for speed and for cost.

1:13:41Now, you guys know there was SGVs. There was Altavista. There were all kinds of search engines is to get access to the internet before Google showed up. And so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there's something out there that's gonna be a better operating system than them. But I do think that over the next 10 years I think they will do well. Selim, how do you think about Ethereum, Salana? Yeah, I agree. I've got a slight extension to that, which the what I'm hearing right now talking to the various folks in the quick -to -trading world is you're gonna have Bitcoin for being safe. you're going to have meme coins for gambling and the utility tokens become less relevant from a gambling perspective but much more relevant from a a solid bet on certain use cases as Anthony just mentioned.

1:14:31So I think you end up with three categories. meme coins do you know trying to get a hundred X on something the utility tokens where people are excited about file coin because of that use case or salana for payments or whatever and then Bitcoin is a safe place to Yeah, it's worth noting Dogecoin searched 150 % since the election day, right? So, you know, Dogecoin spikes after Trump announces Department of Doge. Yeah. Oh, I mean, you know, that's Elon. I mean, that's his gift. You know, I mean listen I mean the guy is a brilliant guy. He's gonna out AI all the AI people You know, he's gonna he's gonna outboard the tunnel people You know, he's done it over and over again.

1:15:13He's done it over and over again. No, no, he's the man. Listen and he's the man. I guess my only thing with Elon, I'm not a friend of his, but my only thing with Elon, we all have blind spots in life and you are an ancient Greek, Peter, and you know that the gods have gifted us with many different things, but they take certain things too from us and I'm telling you, you gotta be very wary of Donald Trump because he's heard a lot of people, a lot of people, forget about me. There's a lot of people in his wake and Elon has got a great life. He's built some amazing businesses, and I know he wants to help the country.

1:15:51I wanted to help the country, and I wish him well, and I hope he'll be unbelievably successful, but you gotta be careful in the midst of that man. Real quick, I've been getting the most unusual compliments lately on my skin. Truth is, I use a lotion every morning and every night religiously called one skin. It was developed by four PhD women who determined a 10 amino acid sequence that is a syndolytic that kills senile cells in your skin. And this literally reverses the age of your skin. And I think it's one of the most incredible products. I use it all the time. If you're interested, check out the show notes.

1:16:31I've asked my team to link to it below. All right, let's get back to the episode. By the way, I think it is worth noting that Elon's points of view here, I honestly believe them. I don't see these as maybe I'm naive, but I don't see them as manipulations. He honestly believes that X was required to enable truthful conversations. He honestly believes that Tesla is important for a global electric economy that SpaceX is going to make us a multi -planetary species. He's got enough money. He's driven by doing things that he finds meaningful. And so I was surprised by his jumping into the election as much as he did.

1:17:14I mean, he bet everything he went all in. Well, I mean, listen, again, he helped Trump tremendously, particularly in Pennsylvania. And I want him to help Trump. You know, I hope Trump listens to him. You know, the problem with Trump though, if Elon gets a little bit more famous than him, or he's going to hit with the Reagan, that's what happens. You know, Trump said something the other night, and I left. He was at the America first policy institute dinner and he said Bobby Bobby You're getting more famous than me Bobby don't get too famous And that's that that's the sentence before you hit you with the fucking ray gun, you know I mean that's the sentence, you know and I've seen him do it.

1:17:55There's so many people, you know So I hope I hope that doesn't have you know JD Vance Since the election look at me JD are you down there? JD, where are you? JD? Because JD's smart. He's like, this is Trump's show. Let me get the fuck out of here, man. JD, you want to do an interview? No, no, I'm good. JD. Where are you, JD? He's got the fucking Waldo hat on now, Peter. You know what I'm saying? Where's Waldo? Wow. You learned a lot in those 11 days, didn't you? I remember I worked from for nine months, I traveled around on a plane with him. I remember when your son, you know, you know, and I, you know, used to really piss off Ryan's pre, your Greek friend Ryan's pre, she's really piss him off because the way I'm talking to the two of you, I would talk to Trump like that.

1:18:51And pre -piss didn't understand that because he was like a major, you know, DC -S kisser and he was like, how the hell is he talking to Trump like that? And the truth is, we're New Yorkers, you know? I have a framing. I'd love to bounce off your Anthony. You know, in an ideal world, you end up with win -win outcomes. And my concern with, at least the way Trump has been in the past, is there's no win -win, everything's win -lose. And if you play the game, you're going to lose. So best not to play the game would be the outcome there. And that's why lots of very smart people don't want to get involved.

1:19:24Do you agree with that? Don't agree with that? Well, yes. I do agree with that. but I don't agree with that very smart people don't want to get involved because Elon's probably as smart as people more than as far as people on the planet people are intoxicated to get involved and if I will tell you guys and I will confess this to you and again going back to the ancient Greeks right my pride and my ego will be my mortal enemy and so my wife hates Donald Trump almost as much as Molania hates him and that's not way up here okay and that crazy hatred and and she told me not to do it, but I did it because I was my ego talk and I need to go work for the president.

1:20:03I built a business, I went to Harvard, I gotta go work in the White House. And there was a guy, I can't tell you his name, but you would really respect this. He got a big appointment and he called me in December and he said I'm withdrawing my name. I said what? Yeah, I'm withdrawing, yeah, I met with Trump three or four times and it dawned on me that I'm going to get hurt and this is going to hurt my family. And I'm putting my ego in the right place and I'm pulling myself out of the position. And I was like, wow, this guy so stupid. How could he do something like that? He was right, Selim. I was wrong.

1:20:45He was right. And sometimes the big lesson and investing, the big lesson in life gets your pride and your ego out of your decision making. You know, be, be self -aware. You know, my wife said to me, you and Trump on a campaign, no problem. Two Jackass is going back and forth with each other. Him as President of the United States, you work in form. You're gonna be in a nightmare. Okay, because, you know, he wants now sick of it. There's nobody talking to Trump the way we're talking right now. Nobody. Nobody. I tell him, I believe he's like, I know a lot of people that are still working with him.

1:21:20They call me all the time. Nobody sitting there with the straight shot to really have the hash out. All right, I'm going on to next subject here. We've covered this one before and full respect. We've crashed into death. RFK coming in, health and human services, reinventing our food system, our medical system, our healthcare system. I mean, first of all, our food system is killing us. Let me just put that on the record. I think that we are being destroyed, we're being manipulated, the fact that kids' cereals don't have black box warnings on them for the amount of sugars in there is just pathetic.

1:22:01And just cheap, salty, sugary foods for the poorest, it's sinful for us to have that as our baseline. And we need a reinvention of the entire healthcare system. So how do you think RFK is going to going to serve and fare in this. That's the first question. The second question we'll put out there is deregulation. I'm in the health and biotech industry. I invest a lot of biotech companies. I've started a number of biotech companies and it has been just destroyed by regulation. The FDA's thesis is we're not happy to, you're not happy. Doing anything new in novel is effectively illegal or super hard because you're penalized for something you approve that kills one person and you are not penalized for something you don't approve, improve, approve that is killing hundreds of people in that disease category.

1:23:00So let's talk about RFK and deregulation. Who wants to go first? I respect Bobby. Full disclosure like you, he helped me on the Bitcoin book. I've helped Bobby politically. And again, we can talk about the vaccine situation with Bobby, some of the things he's saying makes sense. Perhaps people in the medical community would challenge some of the things he's saying. So I'm gonna lead that to the medical community. I speak as a dad. I believe everything that you just said and I've experienced it, Peter, if I go to Greece and I eat food, I lose weight. If I go to Italy and I eat food or drink coffee, I lose weight.

1:23:41If I eat food here, the same food I gain weight because there's so many preservatives and there's so much nonsense of stuff and this stuff, okay? And we did something in the country which is why I want to be secretary of the Constitution. Citizens United has corrupted the country because if I'm big food or big forma, let me light up everybody in the Congress and then let me tell everybody in the Congress that I need to put fertilizer and additives and preservatives in the food so I can cheapen up the manufacturing of the food, yes, cheapen up the price to your point, but it stays on the shelf for 15 years and it makes everybody fat.

1:24:21Now you know, because you're a scientist and a doctor, if we went back to our obesity levels in 1991, we'd save two, we were talking about two trillion dollars, we would save two trillion dollars in healthcare expenses. If we just went back to the portion sizes and we just cleaned up the food, So by the way, I think that is the biggest savings we can have is in our healthcare costs, right? But yeah, of course. So so so Bobby talking about this and if Bobby can implement this, I want to bronze statue to Bobby in front of the FDA. Okay, and Bobby Bobby, whatever you think of Bobby, Bobby's been on this for three decades, fellas.

1:25:05Yeah, okay. I think he's amazing and he's right about this. So, you tell me, I want Bobby to get that job. I know there's some establishing people that don't want him to get that job, but if Bobby's in that job, but you know what I told you about the grind in Washington, right? They'll find something on them. They're going to grind that guy. We need 20 people going into that department with Bobby that think like Bobby. Do you understand what I'm saying? Because I do. Unfortunately, because I have a 11 day PhD in Washington scumbaggery. Okay, I have a 11 -negged honorary doctorate. What I'm telling you is that he can't do it alone.

1:25:43He needs a legion of Bobby's to help him. So I agree with everything you said, I think Citizens United has been a real nightmare for the country. Terrible. I think the issue is constitutional amendment to reform that. Yeah, that's a huge problem. And the problem I think we have is that it doesn't matter with the Robbie Kennedy or somebody else. Yes, he's got an unbelievable track record of environmental fighting corporate interests, etc. And God help us. We need 10x more of that. But how much can he do to undo the regulatory capture in both healthcare and in food? And we need that. And it may need to happen at a level above.

1:26:21And the best thing we could do is just educate the population that this is really what you're doing today is really bad. and let the market drive change it. So you and I agree, what I would say to Bobby, you gotta go district to district, there's 435 of them. And you gotta do podcasts, local radio, and you gotta do local media. And you gotta get to Peter and Saleem's family in every district and say, please call your congressman. Please call your congresswoman. Knock off the relationship with big food. Michelle Obama made after this. Bobby is listening. Inting, please come on moonshots. I would love to have this.

1:27:00What you're planning to do is an incredible moonshot. I don't know how he's the man. I totally respect him, but I'm just saying to you, Michelle Obama tried this in 2009 and in 2010, they crucified her. They started calling her Michael Obama. They put all kinds of conspiracy theories out on the internet. That was big food and big sugar that went after Michelle Obama. There's a great documentary about this a couple of years ago, I sent you the link, but they crucified her and he wanted to win reelection, so they backed off the food safety standards in the country. But that's why she had a garden in the White House.

1:27:39She was growing her own stuff to feed her children. We shouldn't be doing that in this country. Too rich and too successful in the country. Just use the European playbook on this stuff. Let's talk about deregulation a little bit because right now if I want access to stem cells and various regenerative medicine treatments, I'm flying down to Costa Rica or Mexico or other parts outside the United States to get access to that, which I think is kind of insane. Now, does there more research needed? Sure, but at the end of the day, we have enough data to say there's a reasonable level of safety. And if I'm an intelligent adult, I should have the ability to access these regenerative medical treatments, instead of having to leave the country.

1:28:25I also saw, as we all have, the biotech stocks just going down a whirlpool down the drain over the last few years, which short sellers. So I'm hoping and believing that we're going to see deregulation really ignite a new health dividend for biotech. How do you feel about that, Anthony? Yeah, listen, I mean a couple of couple of things I would say to you that again once again big former because big former is putting pressure on the FDA MDMA which Bobby is a proponent of and and I believe Peter you've held my son with his MDMA projects. Yes, I think MDMA is a incredible. Yeah, if people don't know MDMA is a psychoactive drug it's been used over and over again with people who have severe trauma to overcome that trauma to do it in a beautiful and graceful way.

1:29:23So anyway, please go back to what you were saying. No, I'm just saying that. Hello, FDA. How are you? Yeah, this is Pfizer. Do you guys want a job here at Pfizer in two years? Oh, yes, we do. Okay, stop MDMA. Hello, this is Pfizer. We don't own everything related to stem cells yet. And so we don't want those approved in the United States. You got to go to Costa Rica or Panama. Okay, no problem. And so semi -glute tide, which you know is a peptide Okay, there's always been available once they license it and once they made it a drug. Let's use it But these other peptides like the 157 peptide or others.

1:30:05Sorry. Can't use it because it's too universal. So this is where Bobby's going with all this. And so yeah, I think it's unfair and I think it's wrong and I think it's hurting the country. And we weren't like that, Peter. You know, when Jonas Salk came up with the vaccine, he open -sourced it. They didn't make any money off it. He wasn't like that, okay? And we have to go back to that sort of standard in the country. And so that's why, you know, look, Look, whatever you think of Donald Trump, Bobby Kennedy is not going to be the secretary of health and human services without Donald Trump. So I spent a few moments shitting on him and some of his rhetoric, but as a disruptor, I give him credit in that air.

1:30:54I want to be fair and objective. I want Bobby to succeed. And if Bobby's proven wrong about a vaccine or this, that or the other thing, a merr saw, whatever he's talking about, okay, let's prove that wrong. Let's get the data together. Yes, you see what I'm saying? 100%. I do agree that one of the policies that Trump put forward, and whether it was him or his advisors, that you can't regulate an industry and then jump into that industry after you retire. I mean, that is absolutely, it's a ridiculous farce, you know. I think this goes straight back to the previous conversation on how do you get big corporate interest out of the regulatory and it's a systemic issue.

1:31:36Hopefully if there's somebody that could do it, it would be Body County because he's got a track record of that. Hopefully he has enough of a stick to be able to do it effectively. So, you know, listen, we have overstayed our welcome here, Anthony, on your schedule. But and we haven't covered AI. I'm thrilled to talk to both of you. I want to have you back here on WTF just happen in tech on our moonshots podcast because I love your New York attitude It's like you know and your hair is just amazing. I'm gonna have Peter, you know, I appreciate you to you brother I appreciate you to and you're your son AJ is doing amazing I think you do you gotta have balls you got it you gotta call it you gotta call it as you see it now when you see my son the next time, see AJ when you were walking on the beach at eight eight what did your dad say about your footprints?

1:32:33I will ask him. Do you want to hear what I said? Well sure what do you say? Yeah. Okay he's afraid he's afraid of me to tell you on the podcast. Okay so you ask him you ask him. All right I will ask him. Wait I want to know. When he shuts the recording off I'll tell you all right. Yeah there's so much that's happened in this last month in AI and humanoid robotics and space, it's pretty extraordinary. I think people need to realize we live during the most extraordinary time ever in human history. You know, our ancestors would view us as gods. And I hope that what we're going to see over the next four years is the roaring 20s that we're going to see the amount of capital flowing in, the amount of ease that entrepreneurs have to reinvent, you know, AI and humanoid robotics can truly bring about an age of abundance.

1:33:25And as the secretary of abundance, I'm going to be pushing that as hard as I can. Selim, remind me what your what your cabinet post is here again. I've forgotten now in the richness of this conversation. Yeah. But it would be in the constitutional amendment. Oh, you're on doge. You're going to jump into the into doge. Yeah. You said doge, you said doge before, but yeah, but you're hearing the difficulties. We have to lift up to the higher level to fix it and then you can come back down again. That's the truth and there's two things we need. Number one, we need a constitutional amendment to fix citizens united.

1:34:02We've created a separate but equal democracy. Money matters more than it should in the society. Trump will say, no, I spent less than her and I beat her. It's not that. It's in the Congress. Since January 2010 that decision was rendered. The Congress is all about corporate welfare And Congress is all about doing what big business wants it to do very very bad for our society Gotta get back to the people Second amendment second big amendment that we need so that would be the 28th and the 29th amendment is to end Jerry Mandarin has to be ended. Please sorry. Yes You got to get these congressional districts to look like the geometric shapes that we could recognize from ninth grade geometry, not the jigsaw puzzle nonsense that we have now.

1:34:49And guess what would happen? You would liquidate the extremists and you would liquidate the long tenured servants because, you know, hey man, you got to get in the middle. These are marketing competitions guys. I love the term limits idea for Congress. How about getting rid of the the electoral college and just going to a straight democratic vote of 330 million Americans. Will that ever happen? I don't want that. You don't. I don't want that. No, no, because remember what the system is. It's a republic. And so the system is designed to have representation, but to prevent mob rule. Okay, you have to have things in place to protect minority voters.

1:35:33I'm talking about black or brown people. I'm talking about the election was one 41 to fifth, you know, 51 to 49. You got to protect the 49. And the founders understood that the Electoral College does that masterfully. Now people are upset with it because the last couple elections, the Electoral College was diverging from the popular vote. But that that works. If you don't do that, these candidates will sit in the coastal cities, and they'll go for the popular vote, and the middle of this country will be ignored by those candidates, and I'm telling you guys, you don't want that. We've already got enough strain in the country.

1:36:17Trust the three to 250 year mechanism of the electoral college. It maybe hasn't worked perfectly in the last 20 years, but trust it over the next. Anthony, we're the candidates right now are focusing on five states or Pennsylvania. I mean, how do you do that? I disagree. Donald Trump went to California. Donald Trump did three rallies in New York State. Donald Trump did a rally in New Jersey. Okay. Donald Trump was trying to win the popular vote as well as the electoral college vote. Yes, that was a playbook for 8, 12, 16, and perhaps 20. That wasn't the 24 playbook. By the way, pay attention. You made this like Trump or like Trump.

1:37:07He's a formidable political beast. He was playing to win the popular vote. He went to states that he couldn't win to improve his margins in those states and to help the representatives that were running down ballot from him. Yeah, I could say about Elon. I would never bet against Elon ever, right? What he did with XAI going from raising $6 billion on day one to building out his colossus cluster in 122 days and blowing away the competition and out doubling it again in size. And I think the same thing for Trump. You're not going to bet against him. He's talented, but you got to check his rhetoric, my friend.

1:37:49I'm just telling you, as a citizen that loves the country, and I certainly love the promise of Elon Musk, and I hope Elon Musk lives to be 150, and I hope he's worth $10 trillion because he's adding economic value and economic rent to the society. But you got to check people that speak cruelty to other people. I understand. I can't do it. I'll speak out against it for the rest of my life because I am from a family of immigrants. They told my grandmother to go back to the country she came from. And you can't have the president. I say he's talking like that. Sorry. Without somebody calling him out on it.

1:38:27He's saying, hey, asshole, cut it out. It doesn't help to disrespect this country. Respect is important across the board, especially from our leaders. Respectful dialogue. Selim, you're going to say something. If we're talking about amendments and constitutional stuff, I would go after the second amendment as well just to tweak it a bit, but we don't have to touch on that. That will make it worse. We don't really write on the Constitution. You're our co -secretaries of the Constitution. We're going to tweak it up. We're going to get it refreshed for the next great American century, which makes the system fairer, more plural, and protects people from tyranny.

1:39:07So that's exactly what our founders wanted to do. That's the reason why we're so prosperous. Let's tweak it up again and to prevent an oligarchy. We don't want an oligarch. I want must be worth three, four trillion dollars, but I want there to be a very deep, very broad middle and positive growing aspirational middle class. Yes. One thing that I'm incredibly encouraged by just in the world is that if you went back a couple of hundred years ago, the richest people in the world exclusively had inherited their wealth. And today, the richest people in the world have actually created their wealth. And I think that's incredibly important.

1:39:46I mean, a lot of that has to do with the American model. It's been exported to India and the UK and Europe, but the Americans really came up with that, right? Andrew Carnegie came here, Benningless. Yeah. My venture. It's amazing. One of my venture funds, Expansional Ventures, it's an AI fund investing in MIT and Harvard teams. We have two companies founded by effectively 21 year olds that have gone from zero to $2 billion evaluations in under two years. The ability to create wealth today is insane. And I think it's just beginning. Now, the good news is when that wealth is created, you know, Facebook and Google and OpenAI have created not just a couple of billionaires at the top, but hundreds and thousands of centa millionaires below them that then go and invest in the next generation.

1:40:43And there's this engine, right? I just got back from India, it was in India, Ford cities over the course of two months. And the problem is that that doesn't occur there yet. If you've got a great idea, you leave the country, you go and build the United States, and the wealth is not being created that is flowing to a large percentage of the entrepreneurs, we then reinvest. And so we need to preserve this special sauce that we have here. And I think that we can. Well, and spread it. And spread it. And spread it. And spread it.

1:41:15And spread it. I love it. Remember something. Your freedom of press, the First Amendment Secretary of the Constitution, drives the economic innovation. Do never forget that because we teach our second graders to speak and think freely. They create the ex -price. They create singularity university, Google, Facebook. They develop Bitcoin here in the United States. And remember that. If you teach your second graders they can't talk about dear leader and they got to go into a reeducation camp if they do, they don't innovate. They have to steal our intellectual property. So these sacred ideas that have been in these texts for hundreds of years are there for a reason.

1:42:03That is one of the fountains of our innovation and our creativity is the free press. I mean, don't go away after the free press, okay? I mean, but you know, the last thing I'll say is media in the United States is changing dramatically, right? The old news networks are vaporizing and slowly dematerializing on their own. I mean, this was a podcast election, I would say, for the first time ever. Yeah, totally. They lost the plot, the media. Look, by the way, by the way, I don't agree with what the media is doing, the hard right or the hard left or the nonsense, okay? And so what happened? Great innovation happened.

1:42:41Joe Rogan comes on, I don't know, hundreds of millions of downloads, and people think a Joe is a fair arbiter of trying to get to the truth. Bobby Kennedy has a podcast talking about the Uberman as a podcast. You two guys have a podcast, okay? You know, I'm inspired by your podcast. When I listen to your podcast, I'm like, all right, things are going to be okay. And I will confess to both of you that I have stolen and by the way I don't give either of you too credit for anything. I steal the entire thing full -page rising. Okay, elements of what you guys talk about in terms of exponential abundance and to get people off of thinking linearly while the world is happening around them exponentially.

1:43:23I listen to you guys and I import and incorporate what you guys are saying. And that's not that's that's not legacy media. That's a new media. I think this is a perfect. And so, so, so, so, so the media blows. So now we've got people like you coming in to innovate and they're going to be forced to change. Yeah, if they still exist. So, yeah, but let's have the free press though. They want to act like assholes on the left or assholes on the right. Who cares? New media will come in and knock those guys out. Yeah, I mean, would I love about X? I still, I still call it Twitter, but what I love about X is the fact that anyone can post and that I'm not beholden to some editor who's telling me what they think should be posted.

1:44:12I can see it all. I can follow Skarmucci here. I can follow Selim. Listen, this has been a fun conversation. We still have a lot more to talk about. So let's do this, let's do this trio again. First of all, I'm grateful for all the time. Thank you, I'm huge fans of you guys and and by the way, thank you for introducing me to Hal Finney because it's part of my Lessons and stupidity that I didn't have the insight the judgment or the understanding of what he was saying and God bless him for coming up with it and saying it and Helping it along. So much where can people find you? I just want to remind you the little book of Bitcoin is coming out December 4th We'll put the pre -order link down below or just Google it.

1:45:00Do you have a website up for that already? I do well everything's on scaramucci .net so www scaramucci .net really there are there is a website too for little book of hedge funds little book of Bitcoin But scaramucci .net. I'm at scaramucci on X At scaramucci on Instagram. I'm at scaramucci on blue sky I'm at scarmony, my sons are pissed at me. I took all the at -scarmu cheese on LinkedIn. And what can I tell you? Okay, I got there first. I'm older than you bastards. And listen, I have a podcast on politics. I do it with a woman named Cadi Kay. She's a British journalist. It's called the RESTAS Politics US.

1:45:43And it's a fun podcast because you're involved. It's long form in a month filtered. You know what I'm saying? I know. I love it. I can't wait to go listen to it. I mean, if you appreciate the book recommendations, you know. If you listen to it, last week's podcast starts with Cadi K in her British accent reading the last Trump tweet about me calling me a major loser, a major loser. Of course, I know that's a love message from him because I know exactly how he thinks. You know, you know, they had to call them Hitler. Bobby Kennedy had bad things to say, but everyone gets everyone goes in and out of Trump world He changes his mind sometimes like an imagine the phone call.

1:46:24Hey, Murch come back. I need you It's not gonna do that trust me. I guarantee that he won't do I'm gonna start a betting pool. I'm gonna start a betting pool But I guarantee they'll be I guarantee they'll be peace in the kingdom because you know And he loves moxie and he loves balls. I'm not gonna let him go after my wife without taking a model little come on Man, yeah, man, come on guys come on Peter you grow up out here. Would you want me to you want me to go to these Italian restaurants out here With people thinking that Trump could walk on my wife that any retaliation. I mean come on. That's ridiculous God forbid right.

1:46:54I love you buddy. Good to see you. You're right. This is a real love. This is a real Italian share All right, God bless you guys God bless take gasoline take care mooch