Matthew McConaughey’s Guide to Life

27:38And I'm down to 142 pounds and I'm not a healthy vegetarian. I got the sniffles, but I'm going. If something during this time, I'm feeling like, you know, when you're going through hell, there comes a click where you're like, you start to take a bit of pride in it. Ooh. In honor of like, oh, this penance that I'm on. Yeah. The longer I go through it, the greater the reward on the other side will be. Now, that may have been a complete bullshit trick I was playing on myself to survive. And I don't care if it was. I'm all for manipulating ourselves if it's for constructive good. And in that position where I was, where I did not give myself the option to pull the parachute and go home, which I'm told most people would have done.

28:21Totally. I said, I'm staying the full year. There's something if I stick this out. Even though I'm going through hell, I feel like there's a greater treasure on the other side of it. So each day of hell became a little, almost got like, here we go. Yeah. And so I was relying on myself. So then that's where my self-curiosity and introspection and finding my own identity started to come from. Because I didn't have anyone else to bounce any shit off of. Yeah. I didn't have my best friend Rob Bendler to go, hey, does this make sense to you? You notice this in life? Yeah. And it was a scary place. It was a lonely place.

28:57A hilarious place in hindsight. Yeah, always is. But I don't think I'd be sitting here with the life I have if I didn't have that year. So let's talk about that. Does that mean if things are going well, we need to create? Drama? Drama? No. I don't think so. It will find us. It will. Right. It's found you. It has found me. It's definitely finding people if they're tuning into this podcast. Yeah. We don't ever need to search it out. It will find us. But when it finds us, I think it's just, it's like, you know, you just have to carry on. You have to, you have to know that it will pass. You know that you'll look back at it and it will be hilarious.

29:36Or I'll look back at it and say, thank God for that depression. Trusting that. Yeah. Because there is, this is a journey. It's a beautiful, beautiful play that we're on. Like if I think about life, I think it's just like this play. And there's, there's tragedy and there's comedy and there's all these parts. And if you want it to be an amazing play or amazing movie, it's got to have all these elements. So if you want to have an amazing life, it's got to have all these elements. And part of that will be suffering. And that's the thing that I think we have. We need to admit that. Yeah. And I think and like you said, it goes back to what you said earlier about the duration of it.

30:08If you if you can kind of say to yourself, this might last for a year. Yeah. You know, and I'm going to be OK. I think that's a message that I definitely want people to hear is that when you're in it, you just, you know, like you said, put your helmet on your chin strap. and know that it's part of life and part of what makes life beautiful. Because the light, you can't have the light without the dark. No. You can't have the sweetness without the sour. I mean, life is built. However this incredible journey was planned for us, it was built to have all of this. Your life has had it, my life has had it, and everyone's life has it.

30:43And I agree. You don't look for it. It'll come on its own. Yeah. But here you bring up something that I think is real important at the base of all this. when we talk about this too shall pass or hey, prepare for it being hell for longer. Is that a bit of a luxury for someone like you and I who have the means? Yeah. To someone in misery. Yeah. The idea of projecting, oh, it'll be, it's what religions, fate. Yeah. No, the poor, the meek will be in heaven because they're going like, I don't have it here. Yeah. but I'm trusting I will have it there in the next time. If someone's in misery, trying to go, I don't know how I'm going to get food on the table tomorrow for my kids.

31:33To ask them to project, no, trust this. Stick with it. You'll get your crown on the other side somewhere later in life. I'm not saying it's wrong, but to sell that and help them understand that. But it is harder. It's so much harder. And I'm curious about it. I always want to like, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you distill this? Yeah. And how do you distill it to someone who's in maybe misery? It doesn't have the, if we're going to call it a privilege to project that far. Totally. I mean, we have to learn and whether it's someone who's been, you know, like you said, really struggling, like we have to be able to learn to find little joys in the present moments.

32:13Yeah. No matter what, because this is what we've been given. And I mean, I think, you know, one way that you found a lot of joy, I found a lot of joy in my life has been service. And, you know, one of my favorite things, you know, Shannon, who we're our mutual friend, what she says about you, one of my favorites, she goes, you know, Matthew will be on set in New Orleans or on some set somewhere. And all of a sudden we know the call is coming and the call is always this. I love these people. These people are amazing. We have to help these people. And the next thing you know, your foundation, JK Living, is figuring out how to add a new school to your program.

32:51And when I hear that, I love it. And I didn't want this to pass. I really want to talk about service because I think service is – one of my teachers told me that suffering is obsessive, self-centric thinking. And you think about that for a second. So it's not selfishness. It's not narcissistic. Right. Obsessive self-centric thinking is when you to feel better or to feel good in life or constantly think, what can I do to myself or for myself or how do I do this for myself? But when you when you when you start really looking to others like you referenced just a minute ago and you've done this through service and with your foundation, you you get a type of joy that's different.

33:30And I would love to you to unpack that a little bit. Well, let me say what the foundation does first. then I want to come back to how it is or is not self-centric to serve. Jessica Cleveland Foundation, we're in Title I schools, which are kids with usually food stamps, a lot of higher dropout rate, etc. And we have an after-school program where kids go, they set a physical goal, whether that's, oh, I'm not in shape, but I want to be able to make the soccer team next year. Oh, I want to lose three pounds so I can fit my prom dress. Whatever that is, we're going to help you reach it. Beautiful. They all have to give community service.

34:05love it which i didn't think it was gonna be popular turns out 100 they love it and what the lesson i learned is no one wants to be well no one wants to just be on the receiving end high five you know what that's what i learned at tom's wow the best moment i ever had at tom's was when we gave shoes not to kids in like indores or guatemala cambodia but we gave them to go out into the community to give to others you see what happens the shoulders go back oh yeah they get a dignity, a sense of ownership. I love that. That exchange. And let's remember that. Yeah. Because that's where we can misplace charities or misplaced in the world.

34:39A hundred percent. So that's what we do. And we're in over 50 schools in the United States and still expanding when we can qualitatively. Great. On the, is that how a service not self-centric? Yeah. look i think ultimately it is self-centric i knew you were going here great and this theory that i'm still working out i feel like i clearly fully understand it but i haven't cracked it on how to communicate it maybe as well and my pastor says i'm pushing a large square rock up a very steep hill with my trying to keep the prescriptive definition of what i believe true selfishness is okay i believe it's very selfish to serve that feeling on a very just emotional level that feeling you get from seeing someone show say real real thanks yeah or seeing someone actually helped out feels really good it does to me yeah religion is extremely selfish do unto others as you would have them do to you treat love thy neighbor as you would love yourself oh if i live this way yeah in this mortal time in this life on earth i have a better chance of getting to heaven life ever yeah so is it more selfish if you're say a believer Let's go on the, okay.

36:15Is it more selfish to lie, cheat, and steal and get everything from me right now and hoard it? And if I believe that that's going to be in the debit section of my chance of getting it, or is it more selfish to go, no, I'm going to do my best to act as God-like as possible or as more my better self or more transcendent because I believe I got a better chance of making it. What's more selfish? I would say the second is more selfish. But is there anything wrong with being selfish? Because that's what I think I'm hearing is like, what if this beautiful life was designed so that we would have self-interest?

36:50Because if we have self-interest, as you're saying, we're actually, it's guiding us to a more full life. Yes. Yeah. And we got to have our monologue to have a dialogue. We got to know, I wish we were more curious about ourselves. Yeah. I wish we, to go further and go, oh, actually, you know what? I paused back there in that traffic jam to let that lady in when everyone behind me was honking. And only to find out 15 minutes later when we got home that she pulled in next door to me and was my neighbor. And got out of the car and goes, thank you for letting me in back there. And now when I leave my house, I've got somebody with an eye on it.

37:37which I didn't have before. Now, was that a selfish act of mine? Did I do that? I won't let this lady in because maybe she can do something for me. No, no. But the outcome means I got a bit of a soldier on my side. I got a bit of an army on my side. Someone looking out for me. Yeah. So as we go through life and how we go through it, we're constantly building an army that has our back. Yeah. And we're constantly becoming somebody else's army through the exchange of how we deal with them and how they deal with us. I think that counts. And it's extremely, in my mind, selfish, meaning it's good for the self.

38:17So there's a place where the most selfish idea and choice is the most selfless idea and choice. And instead of seeing those as a contradiction, which we do, I'm just trying to push it. Go, no, they're not. It's all gotta be personal. If we do, I know, and I've done it, man. And you try charity because you think it's going to get our soul to rest. Yeah. It doesn't. It's so true. It doesn't. You know this. I know it. Extremely well. As well as anyone. Yeah. How do you come out of what you've done with Tom's going through an identity crisis of thinking you're not enough? Yeah. Where did that narrative come from?

39:00Did the giving fill up that void? No, it doesn't fill the void up. I tried to. I mean, that's what I thought. If there's anything that was going to make me feel enough, it was helping all these other people. But it has to come from within. Right. Yeah. It's got to be personal. Yeah. You can do the same thing, but it's got to be personal. Totally. And I think we should challenge ourselves, everybody, to go, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's also the false modesty of charity. It can be overdone. Yeah, totally. You know the person you pull up to the stop sign and they were there first.

39:38Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you pull up and they're like, no, you go ahead. And you're like, why? And all of a sudden you're back and forth going, or the person that sits there and goes, let's everybody go. And you're like, you're screwing up traffic. Like take your turn and go, look after yourself first. Or the old, you know, my wife's father who's a farmer says, well, you got to take care of the family before you take care of the cows. Yeah. because if the family ain't fed, they can't feed the cows. Totally. But that doesn't mean you're disregarding what your neighbor needs. I agree. Okay, you might have heard me talk about this when I had Michael Pollan on the show.

40:16But since then, I've become even more enamored with this AI therapy app called Sonia. I met the founders at a mental health conference and started using it with some skepticism at first. But it now has been six months and it is helping me in ways I could never have imagined. Honestly, I feel like I got a therapist and a life coach available to me 24 hours a day. And here's a clip from one of my recent sessions so you can see what the experience is actually like. Hi, Blake. I'm here. What's on your mind right now? Oh, I'm just feeling a little stressed about things right now because I feel like I've got so much going on and I really don't know how to prioritize it.

40:57When everything stacks up at once, it can blur what actually matters and make that old not enough story get louder. Let's slow this down by picking one thread to start with what feels most pressing in this moment. The important reframe is this. The projects did not cure the depression. They arrived because you healed. And when you overwork to prevent relapse, you actually undermine the things that keep you well, like sleep, presence, movement, and connection. When that edge shows up, it is a signal to reduce load and restore choice, not to push harder. Most of my friends who've tried just one session, including my dad, are now using it several times a week.

41:34The Sony app is still in beta, but they have opened it up for anyone to try now for free on the Apple App Store. Okay, here's another project I'm involved in that might sound crazy at first. But this year, I met some engineers from Nike who invented a new type of office chair that has not only changed my life, but saved my back, especially because I'm on about five hours of Zoom calls every single day. The MoveLab chair has two different pivot points under the seat, which keeps your body in continuous micro movements all day. The founders told me it is the equivalent of taking 3 ,000 steps, and all the lubrication of your joints and the blood flow is why my back no longer hurts, and I can focus on my work so much better.

42:20I loved it so much that I actually joined the team as a co-founder and I will be sending one to every person I know when we launch this fall. If you're interested in learning more or pre-ordering one, we only have 500 in the first run. You can check us out at movelab.com and that's spelled M-O-O-V-L-A-B.com. One of the things that I'm a dad, you're a dad. One of the things that I was excited in since we last saw each other, we've had our kids grow up. And as you talk about this, is this these initiations you've done? Yeah. That's why I see these. I see these times in your life. We've gone alone.

43:03You've really gotten to know yourself. You've found a true confidence in yourself, not in what the headlines are saying. How have you taught? You have three kids, two boys and a girl. Yeah. with your boys, how have you transferred this knowledge? Because this is amazing for people listening. But as a dad, my son's 11. So I'm really asking for me, because these are big ideas. Well, I'm definitely still in process of it. I mean, the first thing that Camilla and I are trying to do as parents that is so important to us and definitely to me in particular is we've had many of those conversations of, hey, sometimes reservations need to be for one.

43:55Talking to my son Levi now, you know. Get a reservation at your favorite sushi restaurant. For you. Just go people watch, bro. Take your diary. Take a book. Take some music. I remember even in college, I started to like, I'd go see a movie on my own or I got to eat on my own. And then, you know, you get back on Monday. What did you do? You tell people like, oh, I'm so sorry. Why didn't you call me? I remember the first time I went to go, I'm not trying to be rude, but I was really just wanted to, I needed to go, I wanted to go on my own. I remember people like, weirdo. But it was like, sometimes people have trouble spending time with ourselves, alone with ourselves, even 30 seconds or five minutes.

44:40Well, that is the first sign that you need to go spend some more time on yourself. Amen. That is the sign. Note to self. That's 100 % lead pipe sense. If you have trouble spending time alone and you're listening to this, that is the first sign that you need to make that a practice. Yes. There's a great lesson in getting bored. Oh, man. Our kids, I'm trying to teach my kids. It's so fun. I took my son, now he's 11. I took him to Argentina for the first time when he was five, just me and him. That's where I started Tom's is Argentina. And I wanted to take him back to the place and show him where he handmade the shoes in the garage and everything.

45:16And we got there and there was a two and a half hour line for customs. This was a five-year-old, just me and him. And it's so funny. To this day, you ask him about, say, hey, Summit, where did you learn how to be bored? He goes, Argentina. but that's because it's so hard it's hard for kids to learn to be bored because of all the tablet all the screens all the things all the friends it's everywhere so it's great that that's something and I agree 100 % and I don't have it licked I'm still I'm still I'm not gonna say concerned it's still a challenge yeah you know because there is a quick fix anywhere and I'm susceptible to it I gotta I gotta check in with myself on that yeah you don't learn these lessons once right well yeah yeah you know whatever it is even and you can even so i try to pick that the healthier ones no screens but you can listen to music yeah no you can't have any social media on your phone yeah but you can have spotify just because i don't know i'm a fan of music and you still have to put the phone put your own pictures in your head in the head right totally they don't give you the pictures yeah yeah um and i think it's a pure really pure more pure form yeah and i'm like all right if you get if you tell me you can do your homework better with music on i'll let you go with that but not with the tv on yeah yeah but they younger people these days are love they love to do three things at once yeah doing my nails i'm watching the tube i'm doing my homework of poems they're one of my favorite poem in this book and it's so funny i've sent to all my friends and i sent them i was like here you go motherfuckers is see if i can find it you might be able to recite it for me basically it's about the genius only does one thing at once.

47:00Only genius can do anything. Yeah. All right? And can be anybody. Yeah. But they're always just one at a time. Yeah. Yeah. That I heard, I've rearranged it, but I heard it from this philosopher in Nevis. Okay. And it was in a conversation where we were talking about, if you get one, sunrise or sunset and his answer was great he goes oh sunrise as any primate would that's great and in that conversation we got into something and i came away from it and and i wrote that one it's a good it's a good one for i use it for acting yeah it's how i understood acting better but it's also for life totally as well you can be so many things but know your zone yeah what i gotta be here and does that go, does someone go, does that go against the antithesis of, no, you're just who you are and you're that person all the time.

48:02No, it doesn't go against that. Yeah. But it does steal from Bob Dylan saying, what do you mean, man? Just be the creation. Yeah. Be whatever you want to create. So where are you? Yeah. You have to remind yourself, I have to do it all the time. If I'm going to give a speech or talk to people. Yeah. I'll write something I think is great and all of a sudden, I've given many a speech where I sit there and I say it and the whole room's looking at me. It's gone over their head because I just gave a speech that would have been great at Harvard, but went way over the head of this classroom of sixth graders.

48:29You know what I mean? I'm guilty of that too. You know what I mean? I'm guilty of that too. I mean, the thing about that poem that I love and the reason I sent, and I specifically sent it to my friend Tyler Ramsey. And this is a good friend of mine. He has a podcast as well called Painful Lessons and he's an artist. And he always says to people, he makes a joke. He says, if I'm texting or doing something on my phone and someone starts to talk to me, I really can't do two things at once. It's like, I'm either going to really focus on sending a thoughtful response to someone or I'm going to listen.

48:56And he always comes to me and goes, whatever you guys do, don't talk to Blake while he's texting. This might really like, hey, he'll lose it. Like I'm sensitive. But it's true. Like one thing at a time. I think that's a good practice if more of us could do it. Yeah. And to not get anxious, especially now with AI coming on. Oh, my gosh. We all want more than 24 hours in a day and they ain't giving them. No. So we're multitasking our asses and we're being more productive. What's the point? Well, we're going to see because it's coming. We better figure out a point because it's coming with or without us, bro.

49:31But we don't know. Are we wiser? I wouldn't say we're wiser. Do we know more? Are we more knowledgeable? Arguably not. I heard this thing recently. Everyone now with AI knows they don't know the answer, but they know where to find it. Ooh. You know what I mean? Yeah. They're not any smarter, but they go, just a second. I know. It's a tool. Like, for instance, I thought it was crazy to my, you know, my kid's school the other day. He was, I was helping with this project and it was about, he was having to do math about building a business. And we both are surfers. And so he wanted to do a surfboard company.

50:08And so I was with him and he was Googling it. And that's what they've teaching him is how to Google to find out all this stuff about how to make a surfboard. And I was thinking, this is crazy. Like this tool exists. chat gtp i would never go to google anymore for this i would go to chat so why are we teaching our kids to use a tool that is no longer the best tool yeah so how are you like with your kids yeah you know they're a little bit older so they're definitely using ai for stuff i'm probably teaching you stuff on ai we're in a major dynamic flux right now things changing probably as much as since the industrial revolution yet we're yet schools are kind of the same yeah and we brought in this thing about, yeah, you can use AI for this thing.

50:50I think they're all using it, man. But yeah, we got an AI tracker to see if that paper that you turned in, if you used that, they have things on AI that can humanize your AI to get past the teachers checking it. I mean, I think they're all using it. Yeah, totally. Totally. So, but is that something we need to go, uh-uh, stop. AI is bad. No, I don't think so. Cause it's coming. It's coming. Yeah. It's coming. Yeah. And it's, it's already here. It's here. In ways that we don't even understand. Yesterday I posted a video. It's so funny. I got to the airport last night kind of late and there was a robotic barista.

51:22Yeah. I had a coffee made because I was prepping more for today and I had a coffee made by a robot. How was it? It was amazing. It was perfect. It was so perfect. So anyways, I mean. It's awesome. Yeah. But we're going to have to learn how to work with it. And at the same time, what do you tell? Look, eight years ago, what did everyone say? Every kid needs to go get a major in because it's absolute job security. Yeah. Computer programming. Yeah. That's out the door. There's no more of those jobs. I was doing that. So we're going to learn what jobs. But I do find a consistency in some people who are creating on this, saying for themselves, and if they could raise their own children, what would they have them do?

52:05they all say lean into emotional maturity great critical thinking the more human liberal art skills are going to be bespoke and necessary right because we still have to teach the tool and the tool is not yet a tastemaker yeah it can tell you most popular but not but it doesn't have an ear for the really good man it can tell you the most popular on sixth street but it can't tell you the really good band on second street exactly you know i love it i think that is a good place to to wrap up this amazing conversation that was quick um but before we go i want to give you a gift um a poem actually please yeah because um i created this this little bracelet in india i went on a little walkabout um after i started to feel better and when i was sitting in a at an ashram for two weeks by myself in India I got a very clear message and that is that Blake you're not the only person that maybe doesn't feel enough every day and so I've started this nonprofit and we're giving people bracelets and we're raising money to help people and I'd love to give you one but it comes with a poem so I thought you would appreciate it so I give you one here and see here it says there you go put that on slide that right over that wrist turn that over okay and so this is the ritual of giving the enough bracelet comes with this poem matthew i see you the you behind the you not for anything you've done or anything you're gonna do I might not stop to say it enough, but I believe in you.

53:46And if you could see yourself from my view, you'd believe it too. That's why I'm giving you the gift that I'm receiving too. A message to remind you when you're lost or feeling blue. A mantra to repeat when times are tough. Because no matter who we are, we are always enough. It's a silent prayer I'm sending for the world's mental health. I wear this symbol for myself and now as a bond to someone else. It's a blessing and a gentle push to never give up because no matter who you are, you are enough. And thank you for being on the show. Amen. Thank you. There's one for you to give to someone else.

54:33It always comes with two. I'll think of who that is. Here's the other one right here. I will give that wisely when it's time yeah thank you thank you and as we I guess one last thing is before we finish is do we have if you had one final note to self we had one note to self to give to everyone that's listening and watching and has enjoyed this conversation I think as much as I have what's the note to self today

55:04there's nobody more important to be curious about

55:12than yourself stay curious stay curious matthew mcconaughey what a pleasure enjoyed it thank you so much that was matthew mcconaughey you probably came here expecting a celebrity interview what I hope you got instead was a human one. That is what No Magic Pill is all about. We're about real people, real conversations, and most importantly, real paths toward healing. And if you felt something today, if this conversation, you know, gave you even a thread to follow, don't let it fade. Pull it. Sit with it. Share it. And keep going, because we're just getting started. If this episode spoke to you, please share it with a friend, family member, or someone you love.

56:00Because No Magic Pill is not just a podcast. It's a resource to help us all live better lives. Hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode and let us know what you think by leaving a comment. A quick note that this episode is for informational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare professional regarding any medical questions or concerns you may have.

56:48Spread this important message out into the world. I am enough. You are enough. And we are enough.

56:59There's more No Magic Pill with Lemonada Premium. You can listen to every episode ad-free. Plus, subscribers also get access to exclusive bonus interview excerpts from select guests and special behind-the-scenes content. Just tap that subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to LemonadaPremium.com to subscribe on any other app. You can also listen ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. No Magic Pill is a production of Lemonada Media and the Enough Foundation. This show is produced by Wubatu Shimalash, Catherine Barnes, and Keegan Zema. Additional production by Ivan Karayev and Kristen Lepore.

57:45Post-production by Oranda Studio. Jackie Danziger is Head of Content at Lemonada Media. Executive producers are me, Blake Mycoskie, Jessica Cordova-Kramer, and Stephanie Whittles-Wax. Special thanks to Jillian Delorio, Jennifer Song, Maggie Wertz, Andrew Fine, James Johnson, Devin Robbins, Emily Ledbetter, Chris Orwig, Sean McGurk, Jasmine Burgess, and the entire Enough Foundation team. The Enough Foundation's mission is to spread reminders in every form, bracelets, messages, actions, and community until feeling enough becomes the cultural default. To learn more, visit weareenough.co. If this episode spoke to you, please share it with a friend, family member, or someone you love.

58:38You can help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Thanks so much for listening and watching. See you next week.