Reflections: If There Is No Magic Pill, Then What?

26:26So I want to show a real short clip of me actually using Sonya so you can get a feel for it. I'm here. What's on your mind right now? Oh, I'm just feeling a little stressed about things right now because I feel like I've got so much going on. I really don't know how to prioritize it. When everything stacks up at once, it can blur what actually matters and make that old not enough story get louder. Let's slow this down by picking one thread to start with what feels most pressing in this moment. The important reframe is this. The projects did not cure the depression. They arrived because you healed.

27:01And when you overwork to prevent relapse, you actually undermine the things that keep you well, like sleep, presence, movement, and connection. When that edge shows up, it is a signal to reduce load and restore choice, not to push harder. Kristen also talked about this idea of compassion, self-compassion, that can be tender, which is of accepting yourself. And she had another way of talking about it, that it can be fierce. Yes. And the fierce is this type of self-compassion, which isn't passive. It isn't saying, oh, I made a mistake. That's okay. I'm just going to sit here and do nothing. But instead it asks, is there anything I can do differently?

27:47So how did those two qualities of self-compassion show up in your life in real time? I mean, I'll show you a great example of that is in parenting. You know, when I was really depressed and going through a hard time, I was just not there for my kids in the way that I wanted to be. And as I started to feel better and starting to repair those relationships, I had to be tender with myself because I had to accept the fact that, you know, I was on four different pharmaceuticals. I was in a really challenging situation. There was a lot of things that were happening that just made it almost impossible to be present with them.

28:27And that was the tender compassion. Now, as I started to feel better, I had to have fierce compassion, which came actually in this interview with Gabor Mate, that episode I think is going to air very soon. and I'm telling you if that was one of the most intense interviews I've done on No Magic Pill because he called me out on it. And you've done a lot of work on yourself. Now, I would say, Blake, though, that it's not what you told him that made the difference, but how you showed up that made the difference. He's like, look, you're feeling better. You now have the opportunity to really show up for them.

29:02And even though you have this passion around the Enough Movement and this show and you're helping people, like, do not let that distract you from your number one goal. And that is making sure that you're there for these kids at this time. And so I've had to have fierce compassion of like, hey, you get a hall pass. This happened. So don't beat yourself up with shame. But also, like, make sure that you don't miss that basketball game. Or make sure that, you know, you really, you know, put the time in, you know, after dinner and not just let the kids numb out on their devices. Another thing that helped you rewrite that story was connection.

29:42Yeah. And that sometimes the inner critic in our voice is just too loud. It's too much to handle on our own. Yes. In Chip's episode, he talked about driving to the Golden Gate Bridge. I was on my way driving to the Golden Gate Bridge to jump. I was at that point 48. So this was actually after my flatline experience, but it was my relationship had ended. My son, who had been in jail and now is in San Quentin. I just was feeling like a failure. I know in your life, you've often talked about our mutual friend, Mark Fujiwara. Yeah. And you reached out to him. Yeah. We had another friend you just shared just today who shared with you about something hard.

30:31but there are some things we just can't handle on our own. So sometimes, yes, go on a date by yourself, but sometimes that's the wrong idea. It's the wrong idea. And when the inner critic is that loud and that strong, we desperately, desperately need connection. Yeah. And I love how Chip talks about friendship, and maybe we'll talk about that in a second. But with that connection, talk to me about your own experience or your reflection on Chip sharing his when he made that call or you calling Mark. And then help us understand how we can take that step if we really need to. Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up because it's probably the most, from a research perspective, It is the greatest reduction in self-harm comes from someone just acknowledging that those thoughts are in their head to at least one more person.

31:36Yeah. So like right there, if you hear nothing else in this episode, if you're listening or watching and you're struggling, like there's not a magic pill, but the closest thing to a magic pill, if you are really, really deeply suffering, is talking to one person about it. because the minute you talk to them, the minute you connect, the minute they can reflect back and you can start to see, you know, kind of, you know, the trees within the forest. And so I think that for me, every time I shared how bad it was with someone and especially those who allowed me to feel that way, Tyler Ramsey, our good friend, was one of them.

32:23it lost some of its power. It really did. And so whether you are a person from potentially suffering or you know someone that's suffering, I think having that ability to be there for someone or to the confidence or the courage to share with someone is so important. And again, like we said at the beginning of the episode, it's not easy. So I'm not pretending that if you've never shared with someone that you're having suicidal thoughts and you're going to share that, that's going to be an easy thing to do. Right. It's very hard. It's very scary. You don't know if you'll be judged or if they'll try to lock you up somewhere.

33:05I mean, there's all kinds of stigma that causes people to not share. Right. But I do know from the research that I've done and from every kind of person that I've ever talked to in this space, it's so vitally important that you can connect with someone and share, and then that person can help carry the load so you're not just carrying it yourself. Sometimes I think we carry things, and we think, well, I'll be stoic. I'll just repress this. I'll just stuff this down. It'll go away. But I think back to what Kevin Love's whole message was about, it doesn't disappear. It accumulates. It almost grows a little bit.

33:45I always say nothing haunts us like the things we don't say. Yeah. That's the quote he said in that episode, and it really stuck with me. Another part of this whole mental health thing and all we're doing with enough is being that person for other people. Sure. And one of the biggest things we can do is presence. It's not fix. It's not lecture, not all that, but just be present. Which I would say is harder for men than women, number one. Just my observation, men typically want to fix, change, find a solution and move to that. you know, much quicker than women. Yeah. So it's something that I'm having to learn, you know, like oftentimes even with my kids, I want, whenever they're upset, I want to stop them from being upset.

34:29Yes. But sometimes you just got to be present and allow the emotion of them being upset to pass. Yes, yes. And it will take care of itself. And this might sound crazy at first, but this year I met some engineers from Nike who invented a new type of office chair that has not only changed my life, but actually saved my back, especially because I am on about five hours of Zoom calls every day. The MoveLab chair has two different pivot points under the seat, which keeps your body in continuous micro-movements all day. The founders told me it is the equivalent of taking 3 ,000 steps and all the lubrication of your joints and the blood flow is why my back no longer hurts and I can focus on my work so much better.

35:12I loved it so much that I actually joined the team as a co-founder. and I will be sending one to every person I know when we launch this fall. If you're interested in learning more or pre-ordering one, we only have 500 in the first run. You can check us out at movelab.com and that's spelled M-O-O-V-L-A-B.com. I decided not to take advertising for the first season of No Magic Pill so I could actually use these moments to talk about something I'm super passionate about. Now, one of those things is my morning routine. And every morning it starts the same way. I drink morning water. I take this packet, I pour it into this bottle, and I drink it.

35:53Now, what's in this packet? It has creatine, L-theanine, magnesium, many other supplements, electrolytes, basically all the things that I used to have to take so many supplements for. My kitchen counter, it looked like a pharmacy. I mean, it had bottles of pills and pills and pills, and half the time I would even forget to take them. So now it's all in this simple formula that my friend Austin created. and I do it every day. And this month, I'm inviting everyone to do it with me. We're having this thing called the Morning Water Challenge. Now, basically you can sign up between now and June 17th.

36:26We'll all do it in July and everyone that completes it will get a free month of Morning Water. If you wanna be part of it with me, and I promise you, you are gonna feel amazing. I did when I tried it the first time. Just go to morningwater.co forward slash challenge. I love how in the episode, Alexi talks about friends and how she had these friends that just showed up. My friend, and I wrote about in the book, like knew I needed to buy a wedding dress. And she was like, we're going to go buy that dress. Like I ended up like postponing the wedding and everything. But she didn't say like, hey, crazy girl.

37:03Like she was just like, I'm going to pick you up at 10. We're going to Portland and we're going to go dress shopping and I will bring you a juice. And I feel like you had friends like that too. Like I want to say Andrew was like, we're going on a bike ride. Yeah. And so I think there's benefit to kind of learn more about how to be that friend to someone who is struggling. So what advice would you give to someone who has a friend who's struggling? Yeah. So I'm glad you brought this up. So one of the, I've learned a lot from my friends and I have some really great friends. But one of my friends is a guy named Pat Dossett.

37:36He was a Navy SEAL, one of the brightest guys I know, incredibly loyal, and he really knows how to be a great friend. And one of the things that Pat told me that he learned by being on the teams is you don't ask someone that's suffering how you can help them. You just start helping them. Because someone who is suffering will almost always say, I'm good, I don't need help, I'm doing fine. I mean, that's just how we're, especially men. And so he says, you just show up. You just, like Alexi, you know, in my episode of Alexi Pappas, she talks about the friends that just said, we're going dress shopping.

38:14You know, so I think the most important thing I can say there, I learned from Pat, and that is literally when you see someone that's having a hard time, you just act. You just show up. You just help with the groceries. You just take them to a doctor's appointment. You just whatever. Because if you ask them, they're often going to say, I'm fine. Yeah. And it seems like with your friends that did that for you, they didn't necessarily say, let's go on a bike ride and let's talk about your deepest, darkest feelings and emotions and all that kind of stuff. They just said, let's go ride. Yeah. In a way, you know, Chip talks about this, you're a shoulder to shoulder friend at that point.

38:50And guys really thrive in that situation. Guys love to go do stuff together. Yeah. Well, and also I just think when you're struggling, you know, moving your body can be, you know, one thing that can get you some momentum. You know, McConaughey talks about this idea of one in a row on the show, right? And I love that episode of McConaughey when he talks about that because it really is. Sometimes you just need a tiny bit of momentum to get that one in a row. And oftentimes, especially for guys, but for all people, it can be a physical movement. Like literally by moving, you start building some momentum.

39:23Yes, yes. Let's go into the other side of friendship. One of the things I admire about you is you are really good at cultivating friendships. And I remember we were on a surf trip and I said, Blake, okay, give me the wisdom on how to develop and cultivate friendships. Because you have these friendships you've had for years and years, in particular with guys. What, from your perspective, are ways that all of us can practice being a better friend, cultivate friendships. Chip called us to do that in that episode. He said, you know, being a friend is like a muscle. And by the time we hit middle age, that muscle is atrophied.

40:01And a lot of guys don't know how to make friends. To build it, yeah. So how do we do that? Yeah, so one thing that I think I encourage people to do in the episode with Chip, because I got several men that did it to me after the episode came out, is make a video note and send it to someone. You know, If you're thinking of someone and they've made a difference in your life, don't just file that away. I'll tell it to them next time I see them. Or don't just send them a text. Literally, open your phone. Look the camera straight in the eyes, which will be in their eyes. And tell that person, hey, you really mean something to me.

40:37You really have been there for me. That is amazing what it does to really foster a deeper relationship and friendship. And so that's just like one little hack that came in that episode. There were several others. I think one of the things that has led me to having such deep friendships is vulnerability. I have been really vulnerable, and not often with the whole group of my friends. You've met my kind of group. We call it the Rugged Adventure Club. We've been doing these trips and friends for now over 19 years. You know, I'm often not super vulnerable with the entire group, but I'm very vulnerable one-on-one.

41:22And so I think that also creates a deeper friendship because when I'm vulnerable, then it gives them permission to be vulnerable. And when two people are vulnerable, I don't know what the science says, but I guarantee they have a deeper relationship. And so that's been really important. And then the other thing that I do is, and this is specifically if, like, let's say you have a group of guys or if you're a woman, you have a group of girls that you guys, you know, do your things as a group. And that's great. And there's some real beauty in that. What I've always done, and thankfully I've had the ability and the time to do it, is I've really invested a lot in one-on-one time within the group.

41:59So I have, like, you know, John I go on a surf trip with. Yes. Newton I go play golf with. You know, like it's different for each one. So while the group and I have a deep relationship, I have a special relationship with each one of them. And that might not be like I do something one-on-one with them every week, every month, maybe just even once a year or maybe every two years. But we have that deep relationship. So making those special memories one-on-one is super important. Yeah. And then when you say vulnerable, what do you mean? Well, I think the thing is, is a lot of guys, it's not just about admitting when you're wrong or the fears you have.

42:37These are obviously ways of being vulnerable. I think that the ways that have had the biggest impact on my friendships is really explaining when I feel like I'm an imposter. You know, when I feel like all the things that you talked about earlier that are deep inside that you're afraid you don't want anyone else to see, like when you tell those things, the things that you wouldn't want anyone to know, that's the key to the vulnerability. You know, if you tell the easy things, then it just kind of gets glossed over. But it's like, what's the thing that if this person knew about me, I don't think they would want to be my friend anymore?

43:20Yeah. You tell them that. Yeah. And if they steal your friend, then it's great. And if they're not, then you just save yourself a lot of time. Right. But that's the thing that can really, really take a friendship to the next level. Yeah. That and also what Pat said, just showing up for people. Showing up. Yeah, like just really showing up. Another thing that I think is great, I think our friend Ian, our friend Chris Tuff, there's a lot of people I'm thinking of, Mark Fujiwama, that do this extremely well. Yeah. And that is, if you can help a friend, help them. Like, I have all kinds of relationships and contacts.

43:57Like, write down your 10 friends or five friends or one friend. Yeah. And what is the thing that are there? It's just, say, from a vocation perspective or from, you know, some kind of goal. What is the thing they're really working on? Right. And is there any way with your resources, help, you know, relationships, you can help them? Yes. And just spend five minutes. Yeah. But I do think this is something that everyone can take away. Make that list, whether it's one friend, two friends, 20 friends, whatever. And it could be family members too. And like, what's just one thing you could do this week to help them out?

44:28Yeah, yeah. It's the best. I love that. It's not only great for them, it feels so good. Yeah. Yeah. And it creates a connection. And I think just to distill what you're saying, maybe send someone a video. Or what I'm hearing you say too is just be cool. Like be cool. Be a friend to the friend. Like think about like, is there some way I could help, reach out, do something? It doesn't have to be elaborate. Yeah. It doesn't have to be when they're going through a hard time. Right. You know, it also could be like really helping them when they have momentum. Yeah. You know, so like one of the episodes in the last seven, I think it was the last one, was Paul Conte.

45:01Yeah. And his whole book is about, you know, focusing on the things that are going right. Right, yeah. Not the things that are going wrong. Right. And so I think that's also is like sometimes we think about, oh, let's focus on the friend that's really suffering. Right. You know, and that takes energy and that's fine. Yeah. But also like what are the friends that are like really kicking ass and you're like, oh, I can help it even more. Yes. I can get them even more momentum. Yes, yes. I love that. And then another thing that you talked about is you talked about intention, doing things with groups, but then one-on-one time.

45:30Yeah. Being vulnerable. Yeah. Being vulnerable with the hard stuff, not just the good victory stuff. I think for guys, we tend to go there easier. And so in those friendship moments, being sure to be open, honest, real, authentic, I mean, that's how we build the deep connections. Totally. I love that. You had two guests that talked about caterpillars, chrysalis, and butterflies. Yes. People think about midlife, midlife being a chrysalis. You have this caterpillar in our 20s and 30s and early 40s. We're toiling away. What happens with a caterpillar before it goes into the chrysalis is it's eating more.

46:09It's plumping up. It's consuming. It's consuming. And it's doing. And it's going out there and being a good trooper and being an achiever, a striver. Chip talked about it in this state of like eating a lot and achieving and like, you know, it's like this growth, you know, thriving state. And then of course, then eventually it turns, you know, it goes through a process, a transformation. And Alexi talked about that as well. Do you know that when a caterpillar becomes a butterfly, it doesn't just go into the chrysalis and become a butterfly. It becomes total liquid. Gooey mess. Gooey, gooey mess, right?

46:45The middle stage is this liquefaction goop kind of stage. And in a way, it's like a death. Yeah, of course it does. Yeah. It's no longer the caterpillar. Yeah, literally. It's just gooey mess. Yeah. In the cocoon, in the chrysalis, yeah. And the gooey mess then somehow transforms and has to fight its way out of the cocoon, which is hard. Yeah. But the fight gives it the strength. and this makes me think of you and we've talked about this before but in a lot of ways you're this alchemist of like converting challenging situations into something more or where the crisis becomes the opportunity to grow or I think I was writing or reflecting about Kevin Love I like how he realized that the panic attack that he wanted to hide became the thing that gave his life this deeper purpose and suddenly he's doing all these amazing things, right?

47:43So I'm curious in your own journey, we've heard you talk about this, but I want to hear a little bit more from you and then also help us understand how we can make it through the liquefaction, the death, and then somehow convert that into something more. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing, the part about this process of a caterpillar to a butterfly that I think is the most important piece is realizing that when the butterfly is starting to develop wings, that it is extremely difficult. And it almost kills them because of the amount of energy they have to exert to use those wings to break the cocoon.

48:29And if it was easy to get out of the cocoon, the wings would not develop the strength and then they would get out of the cocoon, and they wouldn't be able to fly, and they'd die. And so, literally, the thing that seems the hardest, like Kevin loves panic attack, or my seven years of depression, and year and a half of suicidality, was the thing that then allowed me to, when I got out, to be able to do all the things that I'm doing now. And so, I think that's so important because we can think about, oh, I'm no longer a gooey mess. I'm a butterfly. You know, I just want to get out. But that actually is just one step.

49:10Building the muscle, going through the pain of reinvention, you know, is what allows you to then, you know, fly or walk or whatever analogy you want to use. And so, I think that, you know, Alexi talks about this. Chip spends his whole life basically helping people through what he calls this liminal state where you're not one thing, but you're not another. And so you don't know really what you are. They don't talk about the nature. The butterfly eventually dies. It doesn't just become the caterpillar again. But I kind of think if I looked at my life, I kind of see a few of these cycles. Obviously, this last one, the biggest, and hopefully I don't go through that again in that level of severity.

49:51But I do think it's really important that just because you turn the corner doesn't mean that you're out of the way. Yeah, it's easy street. Yeah. And you have this quote in the gym, you have it in the sauna, don't skip the struggle. Yeah. But it's interesting, the quote is not don't skip the struggle. It's stop trying to skip the struggle, which is really important because what that's telling me and the affirmation reason I have in the gym and it's like, no, the struggle is where the juices. So stop trying to avoid it. Stop trying to numb it. Stop trying to not look inside. You know, stop trying to skip the struggle.

50:28That's where we get ourselves into trouble. Yes. So stop trying to skip the struggle. In a way, you know, McConaughey talked a lot about this. It's embracing the struggle. It's shaking hands with the struggle. It's welcoming the struggle. It's saying it's okay to not be okay. To get to where we want to be bright and brilliant and strong, it's a difficult path. And I think that's part of this podcast series and theme. All these guests, none of them said, oh, no problem. Here's a quick solution. Here's a magic pill. No magic pill. No one brought one yet. Yeah, no one has. I mean, there's a lot of different ideas, different for all of us.

51:07Alexi talks about the crock pot. We haven't talked about that yet. I came to think of myself as a slow cooker. I had to throw a lot of things into it and then wait a very long time. If I looked inside mid-cook, it might not appear as though anything was happening. It would have been frustrating to peek into the pot too often, which is why it was important not to evaluate myself based on how I felt on any one day. Yeah. And she talks about these many different things that come together for healing. Yeah. And that it's not one and done. Yeah. But there's a lot to it. Totally. And some people, I think, when they hear that, they're discouraged.

51:45Because I remember you saying when you got your bipolar diagnosis, you were like, great, now I know what the problem is. Now I know the solution. But when you don't have the quick solution, when you don't have the diagnosis, when you're stuck and you're like, great, there's no magic pill. Because sometimes we say it like, no magic pill. Like, yay. But I think some people say, really? Yeah. There's no magic pill? Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. What do you say to that person? I would say I'm sorry and I'm not. And the reason is I'm sorry because you're probably, it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

52:21You're probably going to have to dig deeper than you've ever had to dig before. And if you can just stick with it, you know, if you can just start implementing some of these simple tools and practices that we talk about on the show or our guests have shared, you can build that one in a row. You can build that momentum and you will get through it. And you will look back and see that that was all some way divinely created for your growth and evolution. And so I'm sorry because I've been there and it's not fun, it's hard and it can potentially take your life away. And I'm not because I know what's on the other side.

53:09And even though I know what's on the other side, I would say within that, it is never a destination. Like I am still on this healing journey. Today, I am feeling great. Last week, I had some tough days. You know, some days I'm like holding on to this enough bracelet, like my life depends on it. Other days, I forget that it's there. And so there is no magic pill, and yet there are a lot of tools, and there's a lot of people that have gone down this path before us. There's a lot of lessons to be learned, and there's a lot of support if you can get the courage to ask for it. Love that. As we near the close, what are three of those tools or tips or bits of wisdom that you have gained from these episodes, what really stands out to you?

54:08Two of the things that really stand out are in some ways diabolically opposed. So one is really invest some time in spending time alone. Get to know yourself. Ask yourself with every thought, is this true? How do I know this is true? you know and if this is true how does it change or not change things like really really take the time to slow down so much so that you can really know yourself and I would say when you're in that quiet space by yourself really get clear with what your vision for your life is because there's no way whether you believe in God the universe quantum energy whatever whatever you believe could help you on this journey, it can't help you unless you're not first extremely clear with where you want to go and what you want to do.

55:04So number one, get that time alone. Number two is invest in friendships. By far, the greatest investment in my life have been relationships. The one like ours, like all my other friends, the people who helped me get through the hard time, the Mark Fujiwamas of the world, the Tyler Ramseys. I mean, these were lifelines. And I I would say especially, not really at any age, but I would say especially if you're younger, invest in them now because you will need them. Life is not easy. There will come a time, I mean, where you will be depressed. You will be having a panic attack or something like your parents are going to pass and that's going to be really hard.

55:46And you're going to need that friend to lean on when you're grieving. And so invest in those friendships, be vulnerable, be a good friend, and really cultivate that time. And I would say those are the two themes that really came up in several different episodes, but I think really are the things that, at least in these first seven episodes, I would say that I'm going to continue to put my attention on. I love that. I love that. And then I asked you for three. Can I add a third in? Sure, please. The third thing that comes to mind for me as I really, you know, I got to be at the episodes and listen to them and write about them is this idea of the commonality that you are not alone.

56:31Yeah. And remember that. That is really deeply, deeply important. Yeah. That whatever you're going through, you're not alone. Part of the reason you're doing this, we're doing this. Yeah. Is to share that message and to share that we are all in this together. Yeah. And part of that means, I think, just taking a breath and realizing that no matter how hard it is, people have been here. They've been through this. And maybe I would add that there's, like you said, there is a path forward. Yeah. And that, I mean, maybe this sounds kind of cheesy, but our hope or my hope is that we are there for whoever's listening.

57:11Yeah. As a community, as a resource, and that this, you know, I think maybe it might be interesting to hear from you as a last question is, why the heck do the podcast? You don't have to do this. You don't have to do anything. So why are you doing it? I think there's this amazing, you used the word alchemy earlier. I think there's this amazing opportunity to transform your mess into your message, your suffering into your meaning. You know, Kevin Love talked about it. I feel like it's so much easier on my, or even just on my personal healing journey, to make sense of everything that I went through if I can attach a purpose to it.

57:57And I think the purpose is helping everyone, to what you said, realize we're not alone and that we can all learn from each other. There's no magic pill. But if we share these practices, if we do these things together, we can help each other heal and we can do what my favorite quote. You've had some great quotes today. But I think my favorite quote, maybe of all time, is from Ram Dass. And I'll end this first conversation that we're going to have of hopefully many about this. He says the whole point of this experience, the whole point of this journey is we're just walking each other home. And I think in some ways, this is my way of helping some people walk home.

58:39If this episode spoke to you, please share it with a friend, family member, or someone you love. Because No Magic Pill is not just a podcast. It's a resource to help us all live better lives. Hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode and let us know what you think by leaving a comment. A quick note that this episode is for informational and entertainment purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Always consult a qualified healthcare professional regarding any medical questions or concerns you may have.