War in Iran Is Redrawing the Map for Natural Gas

22:26Tracy Alloway:One of the controversies with export terminals, as you mentioned, not that long ago, we're absolutely swimming in free gas. And there was this concern that, well, if you start exporting it, it raises the domestic price because then you don't have these gluts anymore. Has the rise of LNG exports meaningfully raised the price of domestic gas consumption? I wish. As an E &P investor, that's the dream of all E &P investors. We're sitting here entering the shoulder season in Henry Hub's$3. It got to$5. It got to$6 during the winter where the seasonal demand was the highest. There is no strong evidence that that extra 10 going to 20 % of the demand wedge has changed price, right?

23:08What changes price is where supply equals demand. And up until now, the supply side has been perfectly willing to hand the market as much gas as the world wants, as the US wants at 350. We think that's changed. I think that's changed. I think ultimately, certainly on shale oil, we're approaching a world where oil, your shale oil inventory five to 10 years from now looks pretty lean. You're starting to see oil and gas companies say, well, what do we do in a post shale world, shale oil world? Now, what can we do? We can go international, right? So you've got, you can go to the Middle East and certainly there are people there looking for shale oil and or conventional oil, like the Shaw gas field today.

23:51People are looking at M &A, I'll just acquire my partners. Some people are looking at gas. But yeah, there is a sense that it's always been a finite resource. It had been a growing resource and one where this learning curve had taken cost out every year. You know, that chapter has kind of passed. And now it's a world, if you're in a planning cycle of five to 10 years and you look out five to 10 years, you got to go replace that stuff.

24:15Tracy Alloway:How elastic is demand for something like NatGas? Because I'm used to thinking about it as someone with a house in the Northeast and something that I have to buy every year unless I actually get really good at chopping firewood or something like that. But I imagine there must be some marginal source of demand that actually depends on the price. So there's the demand for that which gas gives you, which electricity, and so there's substitution. So one thing to watch is bubbling behind the scenes, global thermal coal prices are starting to take off. They're up 30 % year to date. What happened when Russia invaded Ukraine, Europe bought every LNG cargo they could, sucked it all the way into Europe.

24:58Asia was left saying, well, we're short electricity. Let's go burn some more coal. Let's consume more. And so thermal coal prices back in Russia, Ukraine, 300 bucks a ton. Started the year at 100 bucks a ton, we're up to 130. And so there's always going to be, there's some demand destruction, but people really like electricity and air conditioning and the things that it gives. And so the answer is you'll start to look for, certainly coal is an obvious place. And then eventually some demand destruction, but that's at kind of much higher levels.

25:30Tracy Alloway:Do you have a read on, Tracy mentioned in the beginning, setting aside the Strait of Hormuz, just pure infrastructure destruction. Do you have a read on like how much sort of Qatari production is going to be impaired in the medium the long term here? So we know LNG terminals have a bit of momentum associated with them. And we've got pretty good experience in the Gulf Coast where hurricanes come through, you bring down your LNG facility, and you bring it back up. Same with oil platforms in the Gulf of America, Gulf of Mexico. Hurricane comes through, you shut in, you come back. And so in general, oil and gas assets are built.

26:06They're built for turnarounds, right? They're built to go down and come back up, especially when you can plan ahead. So you'll get whipsaws on the order of weeks. And so if this is over in weeks, we'll kind of have a big wedge of a month of chaos that'll filter through the economy. And if it goes on for months and months, it's something like if we talk about the big three LNG, the US, Qatar, and Australia, they're kind of each a fifth, a fifth, a fifth of global supply. So something like 20 % of the LNG would be knocked out. And that needs a lot of coal to replace or a lot of demand destruction.

26:43Tracy Alloway:So just on this point, I think commodity markets in particular are very used to fading Middle East flare-ups very quickly. Is there any reason to believe that this time is going to be different? You have decades of experience in this space. Does it feel different to you? As a geologist and not a geopolitician, I'm not sure I'm the perfect guest for that answer. What the market is saying is that we're returning to normal. And so is the market right or wrong? I have a few signposts. And so one of the ones, I'll use oil as an example. When you take the price of oil and you add in the crack spread, which is effectively what does the consumer pay for diesel, for gasoline, et cetera.

27:28When the cost of that gets to 7 % of global GDP, the world says that's too much and you stop using it. And that's where we got in 2022. Today, that'd be about$120 crude, call it about a$60 crack spread. So on my screen, I can show you oil never works a year forward when the cost of oil is 6 % of GDP. And so that's kind of that. Wait, where are we right now? So today we're 100 plus 40. So crack spreads are around 40. And these things are moving by the minute. But yeah, call it about 140. So we're not quite there. But there would be an exit alarm ringing if we did get to kind of 180 crude plus crack spreads.

28:15And then you'd say, I don't need to be a geopolitician. I just know every time this has happened, the global economy has gone blah. Geopolitics is a fake field, isn't it?

28:25Tracy Alloway:No, I don't know about that. But geology feels, sorry, I think geology is more of a science than geopolitics, right? Anyone can fake being a geopolitical expert. Geology doesn't change when you talk about it, but geopolitics changes when you talk about it. So the experimenter influences the experiment. You know, here's something I've wondered about, you know, again, Ned Gass, there's not a global market. But with the rise of LNG, have global markets become somewhat more correlated over time? Are we trending towards a global price of gas? Yes. And in fact, if you think of the role that Saudi Aramco plays when they're setting their official selling prices, they will look east and they'll look west.

29:11And they'll see what are Atlantic Basin prices for oil and what are Pacific Basin. And they're not going to let anybody arb them away, right? So kind of they help set a law of one price. The Qataris that not only are sort of a fifth of LNG today, but growing, right, serve two markets. They can look east and they can look west. And so the idea would be we used to have J-Cam and you'd have LNG market over here and you'd have TTF over here. The Qataris role in the market is to say, no one's going to arm me. We're smarter. We've got more customers than anybody. and they were going to kind of link the price of LNG in Europe to the one in Asia.

29:47So we have kind of the law of one seaborne price of gas. And then you can compete against that. And then I can say, okay, if I build an import terminal here and the shipping is this much and the liquefaction to regas is this much, I can do this project.

30:01Tracy Alloway:What's actually going on with Russian LNG in Europe? Because you hear these very different stories. One is they're phasing out Russian imports. And And then the other story is, well, Russian imports are at a record high. If Russian crude is getting a free pass on this conflict, then Russian LNG will likely get a free pass. And so, yeah, the answer is the longer this conflict takes. If you are a buyer, and who are the big buyers of LNG? Think about Europe, and they're buying it for electricity. Think about Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and China. And one of the strategies is diversity of supply is security of supply.

30:40That's kind of been a mantra when you look at the various utilities. And that's been proven absolutely correct. If anyone said, well, the Qataris are giving me the best deal, I'm going to be 100 % linked to them. That was a terrible, in hindsight, choice. And so diversity of supply means Russia has boatloads of gas. They've got pipe loads of gas now. They've got a customer that they're not friendly with anymore. And so their ability to build LNG and eventually, right? The problem with the pipeline is it goes from point A to point B. And so it is a marriage between the person putting stuff in one end of the pipe and the person taking stuff out of the other end.

31:22You can't move that pipe. The beauty of LNG is you don't have to get married. You can kind of have lots of customers with benefits.

31:30Tracy Alloway:You mentioned that, and I remember these stories after the invasion of Ukraine and Europe going around and trying to buy every LNG tanker that it could on the market and that there were poorer countries that essentially just got shut out. What was the next chapter there? What happened? What did they do? Yeah. And so the challenge is there is probably there are two tons of demand for every LNG cargo, right? So there are twice as many tons of regas as there are liquefaction. And the way to think about that is a liquefaction terminal costs$1 ,000 a ton. And the ones in the Gulf Coast are big, 10 million tons.

32:11So you're spending$10 billion for this terminal. Regas terminals are a tenth of that cost. So you invest in liquefaction as a business. Liquefaction is the way out. Yep, exactly.

32:23Tracy Alloway:And regas is the way in. Exactly. So the supplier does the liquefaction. Yep. The buyer does the regas. So you can build regas terminals as an option, right? And therefore, there are twice as many options. And so when the market is tight, you can have two people fighting for every cargo, which brings us back to the person that pays the most gets it. And then the answer is you need another form of source of electricity. And it's developing economies are generally going to have access to coal, right? They'll have coal and power plants, and that's going to be their choice. That's right. So, yeah, the second place in fighting for an LNG cargo is to go buy coal.

33:18Tracy Alloway:Hello, hello. I'm Malcolm Gladwell, host of the podcast Smart Talks with IBM. I recently sat down with IBM's chairman and CEO, Arvind Krishna, and I asked him, how can companies use AI to its fullest potential to create smarter business? My one advice to them, pick areas you can scale. Don't pick the shiny little toys on the side. For example? If anybody has more than 10 % of what they had for customer service 10 years ago, they're already five years behind. If anybody is not using AI to make their developers who write software 30 % more productive today, with the goal of being 70 % more productive.

34:05Yeah. Wow. So we are not asking our clients to be the first experiment on it. We say, you can leverage what we did. We're happy to bring out all our learnings, including what needs to change in the process, because the biggest change is not technology. It's getting people to accept that there's a different way to do things. To listen to the full conversation, visit ibm.com slash smarttalks.

34:36Tracy Alloway:comes from Publik. Publik is an investing platform that offers access to stocks, options, bonds, and crypto. And they've also integrated AI with tools that can assist investors in building customized portfolios. One of these tools is called Generated Assets. It allows you to turn your ideas into investable indexes. So let's say you're interested in something specific like biotech companies with high R &D spend, small cap stocks with improving operating margins, or the S &P 500 minus high-debt companies, chances are there isn't an ETF that fits your exact criteria. But on public, you just type in a prompt and their AI screens thousands of stocks and build a one-of-a-kind index.

35:15Tracy Alloway:You can even backtest it against the S &P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Go to public.com slash market and earn an uncapped 1 % bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com slash market. And paid for by Public Holdings. Brokered services by Public Investing, member FINRA SIPC. Advisory services by Public Advisors, SEC Registered Advisor. Crypto services by ZeroHash. Sample prompts are for illustrative purposes only, not investment advice. All investing involves risk of loss. See complete disclosures at public.com slash disclosures. Small businesses are the pulse of every community.

35:50Tracy Alloway:They bring people together, create opportunities, and drive growth. With a widespread presence in communities across the country, Chase for Business supports small business owners at a local level. That makes it possible for you to connect, learn from each other, and grow together. There's a real commitment to seeing small businesses succeed. The Chase for Business team has knowledge and expertise that span a wide range of financial areas. They can help you make more informed decisions as you navigate the complexities of running your business. They'll help your business grow with individual guidance and convenient digital tools all in one place.

36:24Tracy Alloway:With that guidance and your determination, you can take your business farther and help build a brighter future for your community. Learn more at chase.com slash business. Chase for business. Make more of what's yours. The Chase mobile app is available for select mobile devices. Message and data rates may apply. JPMorgan Chase Bank N.A. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026. JPMorgan Chase and Company. I'm going to change the subject slightly. In the grand tradition of us interviewing Bob, I'm just going to throw out a random commodity. So anyone who came to our live show last year will know we had a segment with Bob where we just had the audience basically throw out random things and ask him to talk knowledgeably on each of them for five minutes.

37:07Tracy Alloway:So I'm going to do the same right now with sulfur and sulfuric acid. And the reason I ask is because, you know, I was in Abu Dhabi for a while and I remember Adnok, the big energy giant over there, striking some offtake deals for its sulfur. And I was very used to thinking of sulfur as a byproduct of crude oil, like this thing that is kind of useless. But to my surprise, it turns out it is in fact very useful because you can make sulfuric acid out of it. And sulfuric acid is needed for things like etching of microchips. So I'm very curious what's happening to sulfur right now. Yeah. So the craziest thing happening to sulfur right now is this Shaw gas field in UAE is on fire.

37:50That gas field, 25 % of the gas is H2S. They call it a sour gas field. In the old days, if you ever went out to a well site that was H2S, Joe would have to shave. Because the equipment to cover, you need protective gear. You would have to shave too, right? I'd have to shave too. This is the whole oil will kill you thing. It would take you longer to shave than me. And so you could always see the folks coming back from a sour gas field because they'd gone clean shaven. And so here we have one of the largest sources of H2S, and also it's about 10 % CO2. Hopefully it's controlled, but that's an environmental huge safety risk, right?

38:32So that's worrying. Now, sulfur in general is not scarce at all. We got sulfur all over the place. This field produces sulfur. You can see if you ever go to Western Kazakhstan, the big Tengiz chevrolet field, big piles of sulfur. Also, every copper smelter in the world generates sulfur because you'll take a mineral, you'll take something like a chalcopyrite, kind of the copper version of fool's gold, and it's a copper sulfide. And so if you ever visited a smelter, you've got this big tower where you're in the old days, you just burn off the sulfur dioxide. You make the tower tall enough so that that acid rain spreads across a large area.

39:12Or you can capture the sulfur. So around the world today, copper smelters lose money. You don't make money running a copper smelter. They call them treatment charges, refining charges. They're kind of zero and they're sometimes negative. So a copper smelter will ring me up as a copper miner and say, I want your copper concentrate. You can take that copper concentrate and normally you'll get the precious metals out of it. So I'll squeeze all the gold out of your copper ore and I'll make some money or I'll get an efficiency uplift. I'll pay for 95 % conversion and I'll squeeze some out. The other product I get is sulfuric acid.

39:47So right now, copper smelters are looking and saying, hey, we're getting a revenue stream off of sulfuric acid. Most sulfur is going to go into agriculture. So ammonium sulfate, for example, is an explosive, but it's also a great fertilizer. And so, for example, in Kazakhstan, the leading producer of uranium uses sulfuric acid in the operations. They compete with agriculture. And so when the market is tight sulfuric acid, you might say, hey, I got to let the people making food win. So you can have areas where you're short sulfuric acid. We're taking sulfur off of the market. It's pretty abundant and there will be sources and there are lots and lots of copper smelters that can help convert it.

40:33So we'll find a way. So it's not clear to me that we've run out of sulfur. I think it's the fifth most abundant element in the crust.

40:39Tracy Alloway:I love asking Bob just like random things. Let's just do this. I know you basically know all commodities, but you're not a soft sky, right? Didn't you like caveat that? So you're not a... Things that were once... Yeah. If it comes from the earth, I'm more comfortable than if it was... Right, the things that are grown. Yes. From the earth. Got it. When we think about particularly the war right now, and we've obviously oil and gas and sulfur, are there any... What else should we be watching? Any other weird... I think I saw there was a good headline in Bloomberg about zinc prices have surged, but anything else going up and to the right these days?

41:12Yeah. So if you think about aluminum is one. So if you went back to when Russia invaded Ukraine, everyone went and said, okay, what portion of which element does Russia produce? And at the time, a lot of nickel out of Russia, a lot of PGMs, platinum group metals and palladium. And so people were like, oh, we're going to run out of those things. This time around the Middle East, from a mining perspective, doesn't mine a lot west of the Straits of Hormuz, but they process a lot. So smelters are basically an aluminum. People talk about aluminum as solid electricity. Most of the cost to make aluminum is the electricity to make it in the smelter.

41:52And so therefore you put aluminum smelters where you have cheap energy. And so we have some of the, Certainly in Bahrain, we've got these very large aluminum smelters running off cheap local feedstock, natural gas. And you've seen aluminum price take off as a result. Zinc smelters are similar, not quite as energy intensive. And so to the extent that the Middle East was both a local and a global source of cheap energy. And so those that invested locally are seeing some of those consequences.

42:23Tracy Alloway:All those zinc bar tops in danger. Why did that become a thing? Zinc bar top? Yeah. Is this not a thing in America? In London, it used to be like if a bar had a zinc bar top, it was like a thing. Oh, it was like a nice? Classy. Yeah. Yeah. And I never really understood why people were really into zinc bar tops, but maybe we can start ripping them out and converting them now. Yeah, they probably will. Yeah. You know, whether we're talking about domestic American gas or whether we're talking about oil, et cetera, I'm curious, like over the last year since Liberation Day, one of the stories, Tracy and I were up in Alaska.

42:57Tracy Alloway:We were at a little manufacturer of oil country tubular goods, and they were talking about, you know, the fluctuating price of steel and how this was creating all kinds of issues. What has been the effect in terms of domestic energy infrastructure from the tariffs and just the sheer cost of, you know, building out the infrastructure? For the most part, energy has been somewhat exempt from the tariffs. The metal. So what did we have? We had aluminum tariffs in the US and we'd steel tariffs. We've had this threat of copper tariffs that I think is distorting copper price. The oil patch, the gas patch, the energy patch, mostly been left alone.

43:33So that flow through of things like the domestic content of steel, that's shown up. But yeah, to first order, if you think about how the oil industry set their budgets this year, it wasn't based on tariffs. It wasn't a big factor. It was based on what was the price of oil on their screen when we started the year.

43:51Tracy Alloway:Actually, related to this, one of the things we heard from the Trump administration coming in was that they were going to be very energy friendly, you know, friendly to all the molecules, whether it's coal or gas or whatever. Have we actually seen policies that have helped those industries? Do people feel good about it right now? I would argue bombing Iran is a pro-oil price policy. Fair, fair. That took a year and a bit. Okay, but ex-war, domestic policies, I guess. there's this tension between the fact that one of Trump's mantras seems to be low oil price, low gasoline price. He's extremely sensitive to that.

44:31And at the same time, he's sort of pro the oil industry. That's a very narrow path to tread. The oil industry makes money when oil prices are reasonable. Now, I would argue that a good mid-cycle price of oil,$75,$80, right? And that's where marginal producers can earn a return. We haven't really had that, right? And undisturbed, we haven't had that since Trump took office or much before. We've been bouncing below 75. We've had a glut. The shale industry has been remarkably resilient amidst$60 oil. We haven't seen shale oil give up very much. And OPEC has been adding barrels to the market amidst kind of tepid demand.

45:14So we've kind of been under mid-cycle prices for oil through most of the Trump administration, Biden post the solution in Russia, Ukraine. So yeah, there is no policy. So the question is, how do you get somebody to drill more in Texas? And first and foremost, it's the returns, right? So clarity of policy, permitting has improved. You'll hear folks in the oil patch say, right, some of the time you would spend to get things approved, permitted has improved. But that hasn't changed the input, which is how many rigs are running, how many horizontal rigs, how many frack spreads are out there.

45:52Tracy Alloway:One of the big themes of the last several years, kind of since we've been doing the podcast, but really since COVID, has been one thing after another that encourages basically every country in the world to think about sovereignty, resource security, and so forth. And so, obviously, COVID, major impetus to make sure you have stuff. then the trade war, then Ukraine, now that war in Iran, et cetera. Like big structurally, when you think about, I guess, the last six years now, are we going to be living with the ramifications of this six-year period for years in terms of global commodity markets? So if you went back to the first world, second world, you had the West and you had the Soviet Union, and you had sort of two complete supply chains of all the commodities, right?

46:37There were Soviet smelters and there were Western smelters. And there was just a lot of redundant capacity. Yeah. Then you sort of got into the 90s and you had the collapse of the Soviet Union. And you had, at the same time that China rose, you were lucky enough. So the China super cycle, the China demand super cycle came at a point in time where you had all of this excess capacity under managed, right? So all you needed was a bit of capitalism applied to Soviet assets and that was sort of the only reason China could feed on consuming half of the world's copper and half of the world's steel and half of the world's et cetera.

47:16Now we're almost flipping that and we'll say, well, you know what? China has a bunch of rare earth processing, but now Japan and Malaysia will have it. Now the US is going to have it. And tariffs on copper, well, the US needs to be self-sufficient in copper. So we're entering sort of this long cycle of globalization where are we going to recapitalize the end of globalization? Are we going to go out and build two smelters or five or however we're going to divide the planet? It's very capital intensive. It's inefficient. It would be powerful for... It's inflationary. And then someday in the next cycle, we release it all.

47:54So that's, again, a geopolitician's view. Is globalization over? Or if a geopolitician convinces you of that, then there's going to be a lot of asset investment in the physical economy.

48:07Tracy Alloway:All right, I have one tiny question. Trace is going to love it. Do you watch Landman? I have watched. I tend to binge watch when I get a chance. So I binge watched the first season. I have not binge watched the second. Does it feel realistic to you? Is that a real? My lived experience has very little. Okay. Yeah, versus Landman. I would just like to say a significant portion of my life right now is listening to Joe talk about Landman. I'm obsessed with the show. I love Landman so much. Anyway. Bob Brackett. Landman is the Moby Dick of our times. Bob Brackett, thank you so much for coming back on OpBot.

48:45Tracy Alloway:It's always a true, true pleasure. Thank you so much, Joe. Thanks, Tracy. Thanks so much, Bob. That was great, as always. Yeah.

49:04Tracy Alloway:God, I love talking to Bob so much. One thing with a lot of energy episodes is that, and I've mentioned it, we both mentioned it, energy math is not intuitive to me. You know, like I have a very hard time conceptualizing, like, what is a billion cubic feet or whatever? But in that gas, especially with all the conversions that happen between the liquefaction, it's like, I find it really difficult. It's really hard. No, I sympathize. I was one of those like toddlers that was trying to stick like triangle pieces into round holes. I've always struggled to sort of visualize shapes and sizes. So absolutely.

49:40Tracy Alloway:We're word cells and we're not shape rotators. Yeah, that's exactly it. But there is a bunch of stuff that stood out from that episode. One thing I should just clarify, because I don't mean to make light of, you know, I asked about the Trump administration being energy friendly to domestic U.S. energy producers. and Bob was like, well, the war is very friendly. And I kind of waved it off. Like, it is a huge giveaway to U.S. energy. And, you know, Isabella Weber, another great Odd Lots guest, had a paper about, like, where the value of these higher oil prices actually flows to. And it's all the U.S.

50:16Tracy Alloway:energy companies. Trump said it himself. Yeah, no, absolutely. He said it in one of his Truth Social posts, something like that. He's like, we're actually going to make more money. Yeah. You know, because most people are not, oil producers. Most people are oil consumers. And so people are not happy that gas prices, but he like sort of spun it. He's like, oh, look, we're going to make a lot of money because we're a net oil exporter and energy exporter now between LNG and crude. So yes, clearly domestic energy has benefited, obviously benefiting, you know, quite a wave that it's riding because obviously the demand for LNG after the invasion of Ukraine, that's a very big story.

50:58Tracy Alloway:Yeah. And I also think this brings us back to the episode we recorded on the impact of the Strait of Hormuz closure on China's economy. And this idea that, well, the more disruptions to commodity supply you have like this, the more you have governments sort of worried about choke points materializing, the more you're going to see a hastened shift to renewables that might be more immune from these types of disruptions. I hadn't appreciated at all until Bob said it at the very end that, you know, like when we think of the early 2000s, you know, the commodity super cycle driven by China, but that for the first several years of Chinese opening up, they really benefited from the fact that there was just a glut of capacity, that the combining of global, which I hadn't really thought about at all.

51:48Tracy Alloway:That is like from an economic perspective, there was a lot of capacity to supply China with raw commodities, particularly in the mid 90s, simply due to the fact that, you know, as he said, apply a little bit of capitalism to those Soviet assets. And suddenly you have a lot of production brought online. The 90s were a special time. Everything was just working out. Peak humanity. Peak humanity. I really believe so. All right. Shall we leave it there? Let's leave it there. This has been another episode of the Odd Thoughts podcast. I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway. And I'm Joe Weisenthal.

52:20Tracy Alloway:You can follow me at The Stalwart. Follow our producers, Carmen Rodriguez at CarmenArmond, Dashiell Bennett at Dashbot, and Kale Brooks at Kale Brooks. And for more Odd Thoughts content, go to Bloomberg.com slash OddLots. We have a daily newsletter on all of our episodes. And you can chat about all of these topics 24-7 in our Discord, discord.gg slash OddLots. And if you enjoy Odd Lots, if you like it when we get Bob Brackett on to answer random commodity questions, then please leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember, if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to all of our episodes absolutely ad free.

52:55Tracy Alloway:All you need to do is find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the instructions there. Thanks for listening.

53:32This is Jacob Goldstein from What's Your Problem? Business software is expensive, And when you buy software from lots of different companies, it's not only expensive, it gets confusing, slow to use, hard to integrate. Odoo solves that because all Odoo software is connected on a single affordable platform. Save money without missing out on the features you need. Odoo has no hidden costs and no limit on features or data. Odoo has over 60 apps available for any needs your business might have, all at no additional charge.

54:04Tracy Alloway:Everything from websites to sales to inventory to accounting, all linked and talking to each other. Check out Odoo at O-D-O-O dot com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. You ever wonder how far an EV can take you on one charge? Well, most people drive about 40 miles a day, which means you can do all daily stuff no problem. Go to work, grab the kids at school, get the groceries, and still have enough charge to visit your in-laws in the next county. But they don't need to know that. And the best part, you won't have to buy gas at all. The way forward is electric. Explore EVs that fit your life at electricforall.org.

54:46Tracy Alloway:Do you ever feel like you're drinking from a firehouse? PayCore's intelligent HR solution empowers leaders to turn down the pressure. Their unified platform includes payroll, talent management, compliance software, and a lot more. connecting you to the people, data, and expertise you need to drive long-term business results. Visit pacor.com slash leaders and go from workflow to workflow. That's pacor.com slash leaders.