174: Burnham Would, Wesley Snipes

20:58Saba Salman:Can I finish? Can I finish? Can I finish? You're all right, Rob. All right, calm down. Now, let's turn to someone who does seem like they might enjoy public life, who's Andy Burnham. Yeah, I mean, for some of us, the whole episode is bringing back sort of memories of the long 2010s when Andy Burnham hovered on the periphery of my vision for all of that at that time. Actually, I was on a panel with him in Labour Party conference in 2021. God, I'm getting nostalgic for Labour Party conferences that pass. This is worse than nostalgia for Rishi Sinek. He has enjoyed being mayor of Manchester. I think people generally find the mayoralties to be the right size of job, where you can actually do things and people see them in their everyday lives in a way that at prime ministerial level has become much more a struggle.

21:42Saba Salman:Sadiq Khan has been, well, he's in his third term as mayor of London now. He's majored mostly on clean air and things like that. And he's written books about it. And that's something he really likes talking about and going into Batfor. You, Les, is another example of it. And he loves doing cross-religious stuff. That man has been to a lot of synagogues. He can't keep him out. But he sees the ambassadorial role of being London's voice as well as being really important. And again, does seem to be enjoying it more. But yeah, so Andy Burnham's Path to Glory is... There's a selection meeting at the NEC this week.

22:13technically Starmer has got the votes on the NEC to block it but I think there would be an actual riot if he did. You know candidate selection again quite a brave person in the rest of Labour to run against him for that selection so we'll see how that goes but then he's got a really difficult challenge to win that seat and it's chances looking pretty good but the specific so it's Makerfield on the outskirts of Wigan and it just returned all reform councillors in the latest group of local elections.

22:43Saba Salman:So why do you think his chances look pretty good then? Because he is popular in that area he's got incredibly good public profile. Who are Reform going to run that's going to have an equivalent profile to him? Matt Goodwin. It could be good Matt with. Matt Goodwin in a beard but you know what I mean like if Reform could find somebody with his popularity and name recognition and the other thing is it's a by-election it's not the general election. Reform's voter base is more people who left school at 18 more low information voters, people who aren't massively engaged by politics, those people don't tend to turn out in by-elections in the way that college graduates, I'm so American now, university graduates, people who read a newspaper consistently, all of those kind of people are much more likely, like the conditions in a by-election are more favourable to Labour.

23:29Saba Salman:They said that about local elections, didn't they? And then a lot of reform voters did turn up this time. Well, it might just be that people, my main fear for Andy Burnham in this is what I think of as the Boaty McBoatface problem, which is I think there might be a lot of people who think, you really want to be Prime Minister. This is essentially a by-election to be Prime Minister. Wouldn't it be funny if we just voted against you and stopped you? Much like voting for the ship to be named Boaty McBoatface. That's the banter outcome. There is a tradition, isn't there, of people in constituencies not liking being used this way.

24:01Saba Salman:I mean, there was the late by-election in 1964 when Herb Wilson was trying to get someone in. You're laughing at me. Oh, yeah, no, later in 64. Yeah, 64, yeah. I was thinking it was 63, but it was 64, yeah, yeah. With my Professor Sir John Curtis hat on. 64. Harold Wilson tried to parachute in someone who he wanted to make his foreign secretary, and the voters just kind of went, no, we're not having that, we're not doing that at all. And then, all right, this is one you have heard of, same year, I think, when Alec Douglas Hume was appointed as leader of the Conservative Party without a seat in Parliament.

24:32Saba Salman:He was parachuted into a seat up in Scotland, and famously Private Eye put up a candidate against him for exactly this reason because they objected to some sort of coronation and Willie Rushton ran against him. He didn't get a huge number of votes. 37 votes, so it wasn't brilliantly successful. But it does tell you something about the kind of mood on occasions when people feel that people are being parachuted in like that. One last solution. Surely Farage resigns his Clacton seat, stands in this by-election. Whoever wins becomes PM. Easy. And then Josh Simons could take over in Clacton, couldn't he?

25:01Saba Salman:They could all just musical chairs around the country. That's a good idea, except that it's the first time Farage won in a by-election. I do not think he's going to give up Clangton easily. Who's going to buy him a house in Makerfield? His partner. His partner with her family. His partner, that's so true. That's a good point. He probably won't need a donation. He doesn't declare. Aren't there canals there? Could he live on a boat for a reason? The last point I said is, when I read these resignation letters, all of them say I did a fantastic job as Manchester Mayor I did a fantastic job as Health Secretary I think well why don't you just stay there then and then you could all do this brilliant job and we could carry on That's what I've been trying to say Because it's the only time that anyone is ever going to listen to you talk about how hard it's been and how much you've done in your job without interrupting right You just have to try very hard and I won the 50 metre swimming medal and no one cared I'm going to write a letter resigning as host to page 94 but saying I've driven us to new metrics and new global audiences.

26:00Saba Salman:Yeah, I'm excited. Okay. Great. Well, can you do that after this quiz? Because I spent time writing this. Right, we come now to the quiz. Helen, give us the name of the quiz. Okay, you wrote, this is like your resignation. I was one of the things I was proud of was writing the name of this quiz. Faction or fiction? Ooh. Thank you very much. It is, of course, about the different people vying for the Labour leadership and past candidates for Labour leadership. Okay. With what hashtag did Angela Rayner announce that she'd become a grandmother at the age of 37? A grandula. Very good. Oh, that's good.

26:31In 2015, Andy Burnham wore a T-shirt declaring that he had never done what to a Tory?

26:37Saba Salman:Kissed. Tentatively. Very tentatively. No, I remember that phase of people going around wearing never kissed a Tory T-shirts. It is correct. The update to it was that when the Evening Standard cornered him late night at a Labour Party conference, he said he had in fact kissed a Tory snogging a Tory her name was Octavia and she went to Trinity College Oh I thought he was going to say William Hay Which of the following people has Andy Burnham received fewer votes than in a Labour leadership election A. Ed Miliband B. David Miliband C. Ed Balls or D. Jeremy Corbyn It's all of them isn't it It is Ian you saw through my rooms It's a trick question yes In 2010, he placed behind both Milibans and TV favourite Ed Balls in the first round.

27:26He did beat Diane Abbott, though. Who, you remember, was lent the votes to get in the contest because David Miliband thought, this is quite embarrassing, we're all white men. Right. Establishing a precedent that Labour MPs then followed by letting a left candidate in 2015. His name was Jeremy Corbyn. That went badly for them. OK, in 2016, Owen Smith challenged Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour leadership and the Labour left successfully painted him as a big pharma shill because of his previous life as a lobbyist for Pfizer. But which drug was he forced to deny having used?

27:59Saba Salman:Viagra. Correct. It was Viagra. He told Piers Morgan, who asked about it somewhat inevitably, that's for me and Mrs Smith to know about. Wow. Last Labour candidate who could claim to have achieved growth. It didn't give him a bump in the polls? Now stop it. Okay, all of you, think about what you've done. Also in 2016, Anjali Eagle's Labour leadership campaign, yeah, okay, remember this, was blighted by what technical difficulty? A, she had lost her voice and had to use gestures to indicate her issues with Jeremy Corbyn. Think to yourself. B, one of the Tory leadership candidates at the same time pulled out of their contest during her speech, causing all the journos to flee.

28:46C, the day before BBC News had accidentally booked her twin, Maria Eagle, to talk about the contest on Newsnight. Or D, one of the banners at the front of the hall collapsed, revealing Tom Watson hiding behind it. God, that's brilliant.

29:00Saba Salman:I was going to say B, but I remember it being interrupted, not by Boris Johnson dropping out, but by him being appointed Foreign Secretary, wasn't it? No, you're smashing things together in your mind. I think it was B. I think it was the same speech at the same time. I like the one where the BBC books the wrong person. Her twin, Maria Eagle. They're both in Parliament at the same time. It was Bea. It was Andrea Leadsom who pulled out. Okay. She went for a question saying, can I take a question from Robert Peston? He wasn't there. He'd left. And it never recovered. Her whole, basically, her leadership campaign.

29:35Saba Salman:If you've lost Peston, you've lost the leadership. Did Andrea Leadsom drop out because of a CV issue? No. She dropped out because she said Theresa May won't be able to understand the country because she doesn't have children. An incredible Times front page with that interview with Andrea Leadsom. And then Stephen Crabb had been sexting a young person inappropriately. And just one day the Times just nuked two of them at the same time. For any younger viewers, maybe the people on YouTube, just ask your parents about all this. Stephen Crabb was. Just to specify quite what a brilliant media operator Andrea Leadsom was, the full quote was something along the lines of, I wouldn't want to say this in public because it's really, really nasty, but Theresa wouldn't be a good Prime Minister because she hasn't got children, she said to a journalist with a tape recorder.

30:19Saba Salman:For the young people you just referred to, it does suggest that politics doesn't just get worse. It sometimes stays quite the same. I feel sad for anyone who can't remember that, because that was also surely the one where Boris Johnson was going to stand and in the morning of his campaign launch, Michael Gove knifed him and then he had to go and give a speech saying, I'm not going to stand. Yes. And gloriously, the camera was on Nadine Dorries, who reacted, who'd been expecting him to say, I will be your next prime minister. And there's the, I'll find it on YouTube, the look of devastation that creeps across the face as she grabs the man next to his arm.

30:52Saba Salman:Michael Gove's finest hour. Yeah, definitely. Okay. Riffing on Gerard Kaufman's famous description of Michael Foot's 1983 manifesto, how did the journalist Chris Deeren once described the Ed Stone, Ed Miliband's obelisk of electoral pledges. The tallest suicide note in history? Nearly, so nearly. The hardest? Yeah, that's where I was going. I've come back to Owen Smith on the live. It was the heaviest suicide note in history. He described the 1983 Manifesto of Labour as the longest suicide note in history. I don't know who's winning, but I'm going to give you the tiebreaker anyway. It's Adam who's winning.

31:30Yeah, it's Adam who's winning. He knew about the 1964... In what year should the Leighton Bartley are here? When pictured out running in very short shorts, Andy Burnham was wearing a replica vintage Everton shirt from which period of the club's history did it come?

31:45Saba Salman:Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, 1980. Oh, my God. I got a football question right. Even though I'm still trying to understand the terms of reference. Can I suggest that that's a sackable effect? It won't happen again, boss. Thank you. I would like to say also, have you seen he's gone out jogging again today on day of recording in rather longer shorts? Yeah, I think he decided that was a mistake. I think Mrs Burnham's had a word about putting away the 1970s hot pants. Yes. Can I just ask the assembled, and this is a serious political question, do you think on the day he knew he was going to be photographed running about, the shorts were an error, carelessness, deliberate?

32:26I think he's got quite nice legs. I thought you looked good.

32:29Saba Salman:I'm sorry, but I'm a fan of the short-shorted Burnham. There we go. Right, well, that's the answer I was hoping for. New dress code for the comments. There's your focus group.

32:42Saba Salman:Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing As A Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes, how about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious, wonderful. The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs. So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are no such thing as a fish.

33:22Saba Salman:Right, now for part two, Adam, you have reincarnated as Sabah Salman. And hello, Sabah. Hello. Sabah of Rottenboroughs. You were last on a couple of episodes ago when we were doing a pre-mortem for the local elections. And now it's time, inevitably, for the post-mortem. How did you do? How were your predictions? Was there anything you were right or wrong about? Well, I think my favourite bit was when one of the election experts, and we had many, Professor Sir John Curtis, said, really, no one's very popular. And that, for me, kind of summed up a lot of what was going on. Nobody seemed very happy apart from a lot of reform candidates who obviously got in.

34:02So I think largely our predictions were pretty spot on. We talked about fragmentation. We talked about the multi-parties standing. The fact that a lot of new candidates are coming in with no experience.

34:17Saba Salman:That was one of your points. That was one of the points and not just restricted to a single party. So I think, you know, if you look at the map of England, I suppose, if you're looking at England, Down the right-hand side, you've got the teal, a chonky teal bit, which is reform. Down in the boot on the left, south-west sort of side, you've got the orange segment. Moving up, it's no longer a red wall, sort of more like a red windowsill. Trellis, maybe. Trellis, veranda, patio, windowsill, something like that. And then in London, you come to London and it's just a complete mess. so it's sort of a bit more Jackson Pollock-y, I think, there.

35:01That's London for you. Yeah, so around the outside of London, you've got some blue, you've still got some Tory boroughs. The donut, as I believe they used to call it. Yes, I like that analogy. Yes, it's more down-to-earth than the Jackson Pollock, but I like that, yes. And you've got Havering in the east that's gone to reform, some green action going on. And then other boroughs, Croydon, for example, that we feature a lot in the boroughs, which has suddenly got five different parties. So you've got Labour, Tory, Independent, Reform, Green, no overall control, but a Conservative mayor who just scraped in, who we've just covered in the boroughs, which means that although there's no overall control, the swing is with the Tories.

35:45So effectively, it's Conservative run.

35:48Saba Salman:Can I ask about the phenomenon you described of people with very little experience getting in, what is a more common route for people who are thinking about putting their hat in the ring to become a councillor? What's the normal route which is being deviated from here? I think most of the people who've proved they can do the job come up through the community network, so they might be particularly active residents, they've lived in the area locally, but what we've seen with this surge of 1 ,500, particularly the reform councillors, is people coming in with not much clue and that literally extends to not knowing which council you've just been elected to so there's there's somebody a shout out to kids grove news um uh local independent news site which reported that a a councillor who was um elected to newcastle under lime borough council rocked up at kids grove town council which is a parish uh because she got confused about the name of the ward in Newcastle, Town Ward.

36:52I'm confused. You're confused. Well, there you go. Let's give us some credit.

36:56Saba Salman:But I wasn't standing to be elected there. So, you know. Yeah. I thought it was going to be Newcastle upon Tyne and Newcastle under Lyme situation. Yes. I mean, admittedly, it is confusing. Although I would like to think that, you know, most people who put themselves forward for this would probably have checked where they were standing and why and no. And the backdrop to this is that the election agent was a certain Jonathan Gullis, who eagle-eyed readers, eye readers might remember. I think he was appointed as an under-secretary by Liz Truss. So whether or not, you know, his latest protege lasts longer than the lettuce, I don't know.

37:30Saba Salman:The trust magic lives on. I know, doesn't it? And then over in Suffolk, we've got a situation where the new reform leader has come in and said, we need some training to sort of get up to speed. So we think we need about six months of training and then an intensive day. for our raft of councillors. And I think to most people who don't know a lot about local government or public sector, you know, most of us hire people for a job that know how to do it, as opposed to turning up and going, where do I start? You know, we're not talking about internships. We're talking about directly elected officials who have a job to do and are controlling budgets.

38:09Saba Salman:But there is some training and briefing if you're newly elected as a councillor, I presume. Well, there's all sorts of things. There's, you know, you have your political group in a council. You know, you might want to do your own research, perhaps, you know, look at the council handbook, download it. There's also something called the Local Government Association, for example, which is a membership body that most councils belong to. And within that, each political party has a presence. So at the LGA, Local Government Association, you have your own little group office. And interestingly, I have been checking, and the Green Party does not appear to be represented at the LGA with its own political office, which is interesting.

38:50I mean, they may have chosen not to, but considering they've come in with a bunch of councillors and now control four councils and they've got these mayors, they might want to have a presence there. Whether the website's not been updated, I don't know, but it's just interesting. One of the interesting things about Hannah Spencer running for that seat in Gorton Dentist, she's got a family who lots of them have worked in politics and that was just completely never mentioned, right? It was all about she's a plumber. She's got a normal job and she's just happened. This is, you know, she's stumbled into politics almost because that would seem to be a much more appealing message to people.

39:20And that seems to be what you're talking about, right? That actually there's a sort of love for the fact that you're a quote-unquote ordinary person, not a career politician. I think it's difficult. I absolutely agree that, you know, if you're a bit edgy, you've got no experience, well, let's give it a go and learning on the job. I think where a lot of people who vote have a problem with it is that you are trusting in somebody who has absolutely no idea what they're doing. I don't mean Hannah Spencer. I mean, there are exceptions. There are people who've been rumbling around their communities, doing great work, painting the community centre or whatever it is, being a teaching assistant, whatever it may be.

39:58They're really embedded in their communities and they've got no political career. They don't want to climb the greasy pole. But then on the flip side, you've got people like, you know, we talked about the Warwickshire, teenage Warwickshire leader before in the last podcast I was in, George Finch, who clearly has his eyes set firmly on Westminster.

40:19Saba Salman:Is the argument that the officers are meant to know how to do this stuff so that you're not completely saying, well, it's hopeless, none of these people had to do anything. There are there is a group of non-political people there already. Absolutely. So if you use the analogy, I suppose, in a way of, you know, central government, you've got the elected member and then you've got the civil servants who know what they're doing. And I think what's interesting about what's happening now, which I'm sure what happens in central government, is that you've got all of these many officers, paid officials who are non-political going, oh, my God, what is going on here?

40:59because all of a sudden you've got a bunch of new people coming in. Suddenly maybe your council's gone into no control. So that means, as we said last time on the podcast, that decisions may take longer to get through. And certainly, you know, on Rotten Boroughs, we have had communications from people who work in councils whose name shall not be revealed who are saying, you know, in all seriousness, we're really worried. We're really worried because we've had these policies. we've got you know kids with special needs we've got housing crisis we've got bankrupt council and we've suddenly got people who have never represented a local uh community before

41:40Saba Salman:some people as you've said have applied and they've got no experience and that there's a slightly different phenomenon which is where you've got as we say paper candidates who didn't expect to win at all didn't think they would are really just there to be a name to represent their party or the party they support and then they end up winning. That's right. And I think we saw some of this with the last local elections, particularly, you know, again with reform. But I think also there are reports that this happened amongst Green candidates as well. And so what you have is a few days after the election results were announced, you know, you had stories of certain councillors.

42:18I believe there were reform councillors going off on holiday because they didn't really think they'd get in and quite fancied a break. And I think, according to Mark Pack, who's a Lib Dem peer, who has a very good tracker, keeps track of the amount of councillors from reform who've departed for various reasons. I think we've had about 10 who've left since May the 7th this year. That's quite a lot. It's quite a lot. In addition to the 70 or so that had left, you know, sort of from last May, the last Lord of Local elections to now. And that's money, right? Because you can't just appoint new people to those positions.

42:57They'll have to rerun those elections. Given that reform in particular is about efficiency, and let's not single out reform here. It happens with other parties as well. But if you're trying to save money and the average by-election, an award costs about 20 grand, there's not a great use of funds, is it? And I mean, we mentioned Croydon, for example, as an example there at the moment where the Green candidate was suspended shortly before the election, but too late to be taken off the ballot paper. Now, this has happened. This happened with an Aspire candidate in Tower Hamlets. It's happened with other candidates elsewhere.

43:31And so he remained on the ballot. He got elected. And he's currently under investigation for allegedly making anti-Semitic, sorry, sort of perpetuating posts online.

43:42Saba Salman:Can I say that the reaction to the lack of experience from my reading of the Burroughs is they come in and they say, right, it's day one. We're going to eliminate all the waste. We're going to free Palestine. We're going to stop woke nonsense, whatever the agenda is. And then day four, they say, I think we're going to have to put the rates up. Yes. And they come in exactly that. They come in and say, we're going to stop the boats. We're going to fix the NHS. We're going to get rid of, you know, the climate change nonsense. We're going to get rid of net zero. And what they fail to realise is, number one, local authorities have no duty, no responsibility, no power to do that.

44:21But number two, there are sort of processes you have to go through. So, for example, you come in, you have to wait for the full council meeting to be elected. You know, for example, it's the leader. You have different committees. There's all sorts of machinations that people don't know about.

44:37Saba Salman:The point you always make is there really isn't any money. No, absolutely. They're not pretending there's no money. No. There isn't any money. But we didn't hear much of that during the election, did we? No. And I think that, you know, there is no money. And that money has not been there for a long, long time. So it's successive years where there's less and less money coming in from local government. So obviously you're having to raise the council tax. So one of the areas we've talked about in the past is Worcestershire County Council, where they've had to put up council tax by 9%. Now, that's a reform council that was voted in last year, and it inherited massive financial difficulty.

45:19So coming in saying, you know, generally the party sort of approaches council tax low, they've obviously been unable to do that. Worcestershire in particular, if we want to, sort of we talked about the predictions. so one interesting thing is to look at the councils that have been run by reform in the last surge a year ago they came in so worcestershire that's completely imploded the leader of the council has been ousted by a coalition of other parties she's been suspended and her son who's also a reform councillor in a borough council just on lower tier has also been suspended what do you say

45:58Saba Salman:there, Sabah, about people not realising there's no money and then councillors being voted in and then discovering there's no money. This is just a smaller version of the entire national condition, isn't it? I mean, there's no money. We all want there to be more money, but there isn't any. And we keep voting for people who say, don't worry, we'll sort out more money. I think you've summarised Rotten Boroughs up really well there. So I think we just, yeah, cancel the next edition and just put that quote on. But yes, effectively. But that's interesting because Worcestershire is where I'm from and it's not a place that's doing badly right, it went Labour in the 2024 general election having had a Tory election throughout that time, that's the city centre this is the regional, but there are much more deprived places in England than Worcestershire, so that to me, I don't know if you've looked at the figures but I would have thought that's a social care I mean one of our great themes in this is that adult social care has just blown no matter if you've got a fairly stable council base of taxpayers you just can't meet your obligations, right No, you can't.

46:57And it's not getting any easier. People are living longer. And there's no way out for any council.

47:04Saba Salman:And so I suppose, Sam, you've been looking at the local elections from a year ago and seeing where they've ended up today. Worcestershire's imploded. Worcestershire's imploded, that's right. But it was quite split, wasn't it? It didn't have some reform and some green and some this and some that. There was no coherent message from the voters of Worcestershire about what they wanted. No. And I think that's, you know, just just I guess going back to Sir John Curtis quote about nobody's very popular, that this is that fragmentation that, you know, on one hand, isn't it fantastic that we've got all this choice?

47:37And so I can be represented and two doors down, there's my neighbor who's voting in a sort of different way, also has representation. But in one sense, you can say, well, that's great, it's democratic. but in another it leads to deadlock and some very interesting characters getting elected. Well, that'll keep Rotten Burrows full. I don't think there's any danger of you running out of stories. I can safely say that we are well served for colour, intrigue, corruption and dodgy political characters.

48:08Saba Salman:You mentioned last time that the reform campaign was launched in Sunderland. Nigel Farage went himself and did a 2 ,000-seat venue and it was a big raspet house because he was very optimistic about their chances there. How did that turn out? Well, it turned out well in terms of they've got the council. However, not long after they did that, there were allegations of racism, sexism and then the usual stuff from several candidates, including one who wanted to melt down Nigerian people and fill potholes with them. Richard Tice was asked about that comment and essentially really low-balled it and sort of slightly dismissed it, I think, which was, you know, I found that quite shocking.

48:49And James Cleverley, or I think his background is Ghanaian, British, was like, come on, it was presented as this kind of, you know, he said Nigerians get out. And it was like, he explicitly made a remark where he's like, Nigerians are good for nothing apart from melting down to fill potholes. That's right. Most obvious racism, like clang. And I think that in itself was astonishing. But what was even more shocking was, as you say, Richard Tice going on to talk to Laura Kunzberg about this. And she said, well, what do you think? And he said, no, we're just here to celebrate the success.

49:16Saba Salman:that is racism with a local twist isn't it right that is it for this episode of page 94 thank you so much to helen sabbath slash adam ian uh we'll be back soon with our paul foot award specials i'm going to be interviewing all the shortlistees for this year's uh paul foot award it's a brilliant raft of stories that have been nominated and we'll be back uh after another fortnight with a regular episode but before then if you'd like more rotten borough stories if you'd like more stories about what's going on at the national level. There may even be more quizzes. I don't know, Ian, that's up to you.

49:49Saba Salman:In the next issue of Private Eye, they are available on newsstands. If you want to subscribe, subscriptions are available as well. Just go to private-eye.co.uk. Until then, thanks to you for listening and to Matt Hill of Rethink Audio for producing. Bye for now. Andy and Anna here from your new favourite podcast, No Such Thing as a Fish. Yes, we are two of the four hosts of the podcast that stuffs fascinating, amazing, weird, mad facts into your ears on a weekly basis. You got any good facts, Andy? Yes. How about this one? Anteaters have evolved on 12 separate occasions. Wow. Mysterious. Wonderful.

50:30The world really wants them to exist. What about this one? When Ronald Reagan left office, he left a note on the White House lawn for the squirrels, warning them to beware of George Bush's dogs.

50:41Saba Salman:So there you go. If you like fascinating facts and much more besides, we are No Such Thing As A Fish.