How Marcus Lemonis Pushes People to Greatness

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2:16Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com slash solversfree. From Entrepreneur Media, this is Problem Solvers, a show that solves entrepreneurs' toughest problems. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, and each week I take a problem that you're probably dealing with and get tactical solutions from people who have been there and solved that. So let's get solving. Let me tell you where I want to start. I'm going to show you a photo. That's audio of me, and I am sitting on a couch in Marcus Limonis' home, and I am pulling out my phone to show him a photo, a photo of us on a stage.

2:59I am exiting the stage. He is entering the stage. We are shaking hands. It was the last time that I saw him, and it was a long time ago, and I had absolutely no expectation that he would have any memory of this. Take a listen. See if I can get it. See if I can tell you where it's from. I mean, if you could, you would have the greatest memory in the world. This was not a significant moment for you, but it was for me. So here it is. So this is, um, this is 2016 or 15. Am I good so far? Yes, you are. This looks like it's in Arizona. Yes, very good. And it looks like it's like at an Inc. 5000 event.

3:44I mean, really damn close. Really, really damn close. So not an Inc. event. It was an entrepreneur event. And it was in Scottsdale, Arizona. And it was the very first time that I ever gave a keynote on stage in front of an audience of entrepreneurs. because I was brand new at Entrepreneur Magazine, where I have now been editor-in-chief for nearly a decade, and Marcus was the headliner. I, in my very first talk, was opening up for Marcus. And as you'll hear in a little bit, I'll describe some of it a little later in this episode, but it was a big moment for me. I've gone on to build a career in speaking and made a place for myself in the entrepreneurial ecosystem, but I felt so new back then.

4:36And Marcus was such an established and confident voice. And I really remember on that day, standing back after giving my rambling, probably B-minus talk, and watching him deliver with such excellence. and it really set a bar for me. It set a bar for me as a presenter, but also just as a thinker, as someone who understands business. And so it was an incredible delight so many years later in the year 2025 to walk into Marcus's home and interview him for the cover of Entrepreneur Magazine. He's on the cover right now. If you're listening to this episode when it came out, run to the stands and you can pick it up.

5:22And what I found about Marcus in person is the same as what I saw from him on stage. Incredibly thoughtful, incredibly insightful, willing to use himself as an example of evolution, of mistakes and lessons learned. Marcus is known publicly for fixing businesses. He did that on The Prophet, his show on CNBC, and now on The Fixer, his show on Fox. And he does it for himself as he is constantly reevaluating himself as a leader. And that is what I'm going to share with you today. I'm not going to play the audio of our actual conversation. That audio is a mess. You heard just a bit of it a minute ago.

6:03It was just recorded on my phone. We were in his house. We moved around a lot of rooms. We were in a car at some point. That's garbage. Instead, I'm just going to play for you. Well, I'm going to read for you, really, my story and the lesson that I took from Marcus, it was really powerful. And I still think about it. And I'm really proud to have put it in the magazine. And I hope that you love it. So today on Problem Solvers, it is my profile of Marcus Limonis from Entrepreneur Magazine, the cover story, and it is coming up right after the break.

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7:25All right, we're back. I am reading the cover story that I wrote about Marcus Limonis in the July-August issue of Entrepreneur Magazine. It is titled, No More Mr. Nice Guy. Marcus Limonis used to pour on the love. Now it's time for straight talk. Is this the evolution of leadership? By me, Jason Pfeiffer. Marcus Limonis came home feeling crummy. After eight years of hosting his hit TV show, The Prophet, in which he helped turn around struggling businesses, he'd just finished taping a show for HGTV called The Renovator, where he helped families with their home renovations. I didn't really like that, Limonis told his wife.

8:08Then he asked her, why didn't I like that? Because people don't need you for that, she replied. They could renovate their own home, or they could get somebody else to do it. The world wants you to help them make more money, or fix their business, or crack the code to something inside them. And absent that, the world doesn't really need you, she said to him. This was 2022, and she was right. The show only ran for four episodes. Lamonis is recalling this to me as we sit in his living room in an elegant townhouse in Manhattan. It was a pretty harsh thing to say, he says of his wife's words, but she was telling me, don't do something everybody else can do.

8:51Do what only you can do. When Lamonis said that, something hit me. So I said to him, what she was really telling you was, you have a function. Lean into that function. Leaders love having a mission, but they rarely think about having a function. Consider the difference in those words. Mission is grand, noble, self-imposed. Great humans have missions, and those missions animate them. LeBron James said, my whole mission in life is to speak for my people. Maya Angelou wrote, My mission in life is not merely to survive, but to thrive. Mission, mission, mission. Function feels different. It is flat and structural and unsexy.

9:37Just one part of a larger system. Machines, tools, teams, these things have functions. They are needed now, but replaceable tomorrow. LeBron James and Maya Angelou do not speak of functions. No great human wakes up in the morning aspiring toward a function. But what if function is exactly what great leaders need? And what if, like every great leader, Limonis needed that reminder of what makes him useful and what does not, and how that might change? To the general public, Limonis is best known for being on TV. The Prophet ran on CNBC for eight seasons, and he is now returning for a Fox show called The Fixer.

10:19But his true bona fides occur off-camera, where he leads two big companies. Camping World Holdings, which he co-founded and grew into a$6 billion-plus business, and where he serves as CEO and chairman. And Beyond, the recently renamed fusion of ByeByeBaby, Overstock.com, and Bed Bath & Beyond, where he became executive chairman last year. As Limonis will readily tell you, he has no children, his parents have died, and he spends his waking hours obsessing over operational excellence. Business is literally his life. And he admits he tends to forget that other people live differently. Which brings us back to the whole function thing.

11:01What is Marcus Limonis' function? Limonis thinks about it for a moment. I used to function as a therapist, he says. As both a TV host and a business leader, he would ask thoughtful questions and deliver regular affirmations. He really likes people. He is warm and engaging. He wants people to feel good. He wants them to succeed. But in the past few years, his approach has changed. The way he treats people now surprises him. I am very difficult to work with, he admits. Like, how? Well, he says, have you ever been in a meeting that doesn't end on the highest note, and then you leave the room, and you know everybody's now talking about you, and they're all like, fuck him.

11:44Yes, I say, I do know that. That happens a lot more now, he says. Limonis turned 50 in late 2023, and like many people who hit that milestone, his own mortality has started to come into view. He now feels time pass ever faster. I know that my time in certain businesses isn't forever, he says to me, so I've come to a conclusion. In the past, people would see me as a successful business person based on today's results. But I don't believe that to be as true as I used to. What I believe now is, if the business can be successful without me, that is the determiner of whether I was a good leader. It's like, what happens when I'm gone?

12:27That is how I will be judged. This is now his function, he's decided. Unlike before, it is not to profit or to renovate or to fix. It is to prepare, to prepare others to succeed without him. I first met Lomonas in 2016 when I just started working at Entrepreneur. I'm now the editor-in-chief. We'd hosted an event at a fancy hotel in Scottsdale, Arizona. I was the opener and Lomonas was the headliner. It was the first time I'd ever keynoted a room full of entrepreneurs, and I was deeply nervous. I dressed in a suit, even though I hate suits, to mask the feeling of being an imposter. I tried to talk myself up to prove to the audience that I belonged.

13:09Then I watched Limonis casually stroll on stage after me and do the exact opposite. He began with a short version of his bio. He was born in Beirut during the run-up to the Civil War and was left at an orphanage at four days old. He was adopted by a couple in Miami, Florida. He was an only child who struggled to fit in. An awkward child who turned into an awkward adult, as he often says. Business became his refuge, the only thing that made sense to him. Then he basically told the audience, look, I'm flawed, but I'm here to help. What's on your mind? People opened up. For the next hour or so, he basically ran a group therapy session.

13:49I have followed Lamonis' work ever since. I've heard him on many podcasts, seen him on TV, and noticed that he always does that same thing. He starts with his biography. So now, nearly a decade later, as we sit together in his home, I ask him why. The more I reveal about myself, the more you'll reveal too, he says. I try to make it as extreme as I can so that people almost think to themselves, well, my life's fucked up just like his. And then people are less judgy and they're more open to talk. This isn't just a good presentation trick, he says. It's also a good leadership strategy. To get the best out of people, you must connect as people.

14:33Great leadership, he believes, quote, starts with the acknowledgement of what you're not good at. A leader must recognize those things and then surround themselves with people who are better. Once you can accept your deficiencies, he says, it will allow you to home in on your strengths and double down on them. I ask Limonis what he's good and bad at. He gives me a list. He is bad at details, at waiting for things to evolve, at giving people space, and at testing. His instincts are always to go all in on ideas, not to sit around waiting for preliminary results. So I need people around me who are strong enough to say, that's a terrible idea, or we could try that, but not today, he says.

15:17And what's he good at? Driving hard, ideas, vision, finding people, promoting them, and making them better. When Limonis talks to people about leadership, whether it's from a stage or in a more intimate meeting, he often invites them to draw a mountain. Try it for yourself right now. Grab a piece of paper and draw a mountain. Doesn't matter what it looks like. Maybe it's a round hill or jagged with peaks and valleys or whatever. Now, here's the point. Draw yourself where you see yourself on the mountain. Lamona says people draw themselves in the middle or at the top. He asks them why. If they're in the middle, they'll often say, I'm not where I want to be.

16:00And if they're at the top, they'll say, I achieved everything I want. to which he then replies, what if you just thought about yourself at the bottom of the mountain? And what if you thought that your role at your company, in your business, in your family, or in your community was to help everybody else get to the top? And that your job is to ensure that everything down at the base is safe. And that when shit rolls downhill, it rolls on you. and that when the flag gets posted at the top, you see other people do it. You don't need to be at the top of the mountain anymore. And maybe the best leaders are the ones that want to get everybody else to the top of the mountain.

16:43This is not how Limonis always thought. It's not how most people think. He became the CEO of his first public company at age 25 and thought he needed to stay at the peak where leaders belonged. That was all wrong, he now says. What matters is how everybody else gets there. Does the company get there? Do the employees get there? Here's another metaphor that he likes. The army. If you're going into battle, where is the leader? Many leaders think that they should be at the front, leading the charge. But you know what? You could die first and then everyone's screwed, Limonis says. A great leader is actually behind the troops, keeping them safe, observing their speed, making the adjustments.

17:27I've convinced myself that my role in life is to get the best version of everybody out of themselves, he says. And if I don't get to the heart of the problem fast, the chances of me being able to extract the best version of them is limited. And that has created a conflict. Because sometimes getting to the heart of a problem means hurting some feelings. Limonis doesn't want to be a jerk, but increasingly, he's willing to. For a man as busy and successful as Limonis, he has surprisingly few barriers around him. He has no big publicity team, no entourage. His phone buzzes constantly because everybody seems to have his number.

18:07He gave it to me, too. And this is his way. He is disarming. At some point, he walks us into his kitchen, opens a cabinet, and there is a world-class collection of snacks in there, all neatly organized in glass jars. Have whatever, he says. He starts eating gummy worms. I love people. I love learning from people, he tells me. And this is why, as he turned 50, he was surprised at how differently he interacts with people. He now keeps conversations shorter. He has less tolerance for slowness or bad ideas or people's feelings. It's the balance between light and dark, he explains. The what, I say?

18:46The proper balancing of light and dark, he says, is something that I've learned over the years, where there's a necessity to tell people how shit really is, but to also give them credit for the stuff that's really right. If he's speaking to a direct report, for example, he might need to explain how they're failing at something, and in the past, he would first spend a lot of time complimenting them, or hearing them out, or asking gentle and thoughtful questions. But since turning 50, his balance has shifted. Less light, more dark. I spent too much time in the past fluffing people up, and in some cases embellishing, before I got to the point, he says.

19:23But I've noticed that, in the last 12 months, my impatience for whiners versus winners has elevated to a new level, to a level that I think I probably need to temper a bit. I get to the point quicker, and that is a lot for people. For example, let's say that Limonis is in a meeting at Beyond. Something isn't working. Someone starts explaining why they're doing it this way or how it used to be done, and Limonis will stop them. If it's not working today, then no matter what happened yesterday, that is irrelevant to him. He wants to know what drives results now. No time for light, only darkness. He grapples with how contradictory this feels.

20:01He's always pushed people, yes, but with love and care. He is a people person, but mortality is inarguable. I started to recognize, and this is going to sound crazy, that my time on earth is limited, he says, and my ability to influence the outcome is limited, and my time with them, because I'm busy, is limited, and I just need to get to the fucking point. Even if it makes him a jerk, even if someone dislikes him for it, even if they never talk to him again, because I don't think people will ever push themselves as hard as I'll push them, he says. I've accepted the fact that I may never have an ongoing relationship with them, but when they achieve what I knew they could, that they didn't think they could, will they look back and have a morsel that's like, that guy's a giant asshole, but I never want to see his face again, but I am here for the but, Lamonis concludes.

20:58Remember earlier when I said that Lamonis is walking out of more meetings knowing that everyone in the room is pissed at him, that they're all basically thinking, fuck Marcus. Truth be told, he's enjoying that. Like in any comic book, he says, they all band together against evil. I am the common enemy. So I can help my team band together and build a fortress around themselves and learn how to stick together and learn how to be better together and make the team. They don't realize there's a strategy here. I ask Limonis, if this is now part of his function, Does he view it as the sacrifice of leadership?

21:35And here's why I ask that. Leaders often frame leadership through the lens of sacrifice. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with Whole Foods co-founder John Mackey, who was CEO for 44 years. He says he attributes his longevity to one primary thing. He kept asking himself, what does the company most need me to do now? This meant constantly reinventing himself, taking on roles that he did not love for the betterment of the company. I heard a similar thing from Sean Trezvant, who became CEO of Taco Bell. His background is in marketing. So when he became CEO, he said, Much to my chagrin, I wasn't in charge of marketing anymore.

22:17And I had to learn that. I had to appreciate that. And he had to let it go. In these views, leadership is about doing what's needed of you, even if it runs counter to what's comfortable for you. It is also the central tension of Batman, Spider-Man, and basically every hero story. And isn't that sacrifice? I wouldn't use that word, Limonis says. I don't see myself ever sacrificing. I see myself looking for fulfillment. Sacrifices are for people who want one thing but must settle for another. Fulfillment is for people who identify their function and who give everything to it. Lomonas has to go. He's due downtown at a TV studio where he's filming some final shots for his new Fox show.

23:05So we leave his townhouse and hop in an Uber where he catches up on some work. He calls a guy at Beyond and starts talking about their upcoming Memorial Day marketing strategies. Lomonas gets granular. He's talking about what products to feature, suggesting how to style the O in a memorial, tweaking the language they use to promote watches. He says, I could help you guys with this if you'll just actually set up the time and they'll execute, he says. Like every idea is not going to be a good one, but most of them are going to work. I can hear the other guy on the line who seems to be furiously taking notes.

23:38Limonis puts him on mute for a moment, then turns to me. So this is a young guy that nobody wanted to push, he says. We fight all the time because I push him. Now he's exhausted by me. Limonis says this like it's a good thing, which by his logic, it is. His function is to push. To be pushed is to be exhausted. To be exhausted is to be on the path to excellence. That path is good for this young guy and good for the company and therefore good for Limonis too because it means that one day this guy and this company won't need Limonis, which is good because one day Limonis will be gone. But for now, at least, we are all here, him and me and you.

24:22We go up a mountain and we come back down. We lead an army from the front, then we revert to the back. We spend a lifetime searching for where we belong and how we are most useful and why we matter to others, only to realize that the answer was always ours to define. Again, that was my profile of Marcus Limonis in the July-August issue of Entrepreneur Magazine. And that's our episode. Now let's keep the conversation going. I write a newsletter called One Thing Better, where each week I offer one new way to be successful and satisfied and build a career or company you love. You can find it at onethingbetter.email.

25:05That's a web address, just plug it into a browser, onethingbetter.email. And if you get one of those emails and reply, it goes straight to my inbox and I will get back to you. Problem Solvers comes out every Monday morning, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss an episode. The show is produced by Emily Holmes and Money News Network. My name is Jason Pfeiffer. See you next week.