How to Stand Out From Your Competitors

17 Jun 2024 · 54 min

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In short

Problem Solvers Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title

How to Stand Out From Your Competitors

Host

  • Jason Feifer, Editor in Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine

Key Discussion Points

  • The challenge of standing out in a crowded market
  • The importance of understanding your business framework and brand plan
  • Insights from branding expert Carrie Harris
  • A live consulting session with executive mentor David Letterman

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Introduction

  • The episode focuses on how entrepreneurs can differentiate themselves from competitors.
  • It addresses the common struggle of succinctly communicating unique value propositions in a competitive landscape.

The Problem

  • Many entrepreneurs feel overwhelmed and unsure about how to effectively market services that are complex or paradigm-shifting, like David Letterman’s approach to executive mentorship.
  • David expresses frustration about being mischaracterized as just another executive coach when his work is more complex and integrative.

Key Insights from Carrie Harris

  • Carrie, a branding expert, emphasizes the necessity of having a clear business framework before diving into marketing strategies.
  • She outlines five critical questions entrepreneurs should address:
  • What is the marketplace opportunity or problem you are solving?
  • How will you solve it or take advantage of it?
  • What makes you uniquely qualified to do this?
  • What does your business model look like?
  • Who is your ideal client?

Brand Plan Development

  • After establishing a business framework, Carrie suggests developing a brand plan that includes:
  • Unique Selling Proposition (USP): What do you do better than anyone else?
  • Consumer Value Proposition (CVP): How do you want your ideal client to perceive your brand?
  • Brand Promise: What can clients expect from your brand consistently?
  • Why: The emotional reason behind your work.

Red Ocean vs. Blue Ocean Strategy

  • Carrie introduces the concepts of Red Oceans (highly competitive markets) and Blue Oceans (new, untapped markets).
  • The necessity of creating a unique brand identity to avoid being just another "me too" in the marketplace.

The Live Consulting Session

  • David and Carrie engage in a live consulting session where David articulates his struggles with effectively communicating his unique approach to potential clients.
  • Carrie critiques David's website and messaging, advising him to focus on specific pain points and define his ideal client more narrowly.

Recommendations for David

  • Clarify Messaging: Ensure that the pain points directly resonate with the potential clients’ experiences.
  • Narrow Down Target Audience: Focus on specific psychographic traits rather than broad demographics.
  • Simplify Website Content: Reduce complexity and ensure that the primary message is clear and compelling.

Key Takeaways

  • Understand your audience's pain points deeply to create compelling messaging.
  • Focus on the emotional aspects of your brand that can resonate with clients.
  • Avoid assumption-based messaging – let the clients define their own pain points.
  • Effective branding requires a clear identity and strategy that differentiates from competitors.

Conclusion

  • Carrie emphasizes that successful branding is about being the 'wise sage' in a client's story, guiding them toward solutions.
  • The episode wraps up highlighting the importance of community and continuous learning for entrepreneurs.

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Additional Resources

  • Host Jason Feifer encourages listeners to sign up for his newsletter for more insights and community engagement.
  • The episode can be listened to on various podcast platforms.

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Closing Note

  • This episode serves as a valuable resource for entrepreneurs looking to refine their brand positioning and effectively communicate their unique value in a crowded market.

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Transcript

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1:33There's no safe like SimpliSafe. From Entrepreneur Media, this is Problem Solvers, a show in which entrepreneurs do what entrepreneurs do best, solve unexpected problems in their business. We were completely wrong. And I'm just like, it's not selling. It was like, we have to start from scratch. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine.

2:21to others, and people don't have the time for it anyway. To explain exactly why you are unique is to explain nuances, and people don't always have time for nuances, and so you just feel stuck. Does that sound familiar to you? It sounds familiar to many entrepreneurs that I know. I'm going to capture it in a message that I recently received from a guy named David Letterman. He is a executive mentor. I guess you could call it a coach, but don't call it a coach for reasons you'll hear in a second because it's far more than that to him. But he had written me. He wrote, how do you effectively market a paradigm shifting service that doesn't fit neatly into a quick soundbite?

3:05And here, by the way, David is referencing the way in which he works with people because it is multidimensional. It's not straightforward. Anyway, I'm going to go back to what he writes. He writes, the work I do is layered. People understandably have a short attention span. And most people quickly assume that what I do is just better tactics for work-life balance when I actually dismantle the work-life balance paradigm completely. In other words, what David is saying is that he works with people in a special way, and it's really hard for him to help. People appreciate that and understand it, and so he gets lost in a sea of people who are just marketing themselves as executive coaches and stuff like that.

3:42How do you stand out? That's the question. How do you stand out? And I really wanted to answer that question because I've heard it from so many people. So I found someone who specializes in answering this exact question. I've been working with brands and doing brand strategy since about 2005. This is Carrie Harris. She's worked in so many capacities across so many brands, including as the president of the Canadian arm of Weber Shandwick, which is an enormous PR firm. Now she has a consulting practice helping large brands and also small businesses and solopreneurs. And that question that David had, that question about how to stand out, how to differentiate yourself in a crowded market, how to be seen for the fullness of what you have to offer, Carrie says that's one of the most common problems she hears about.

4:36And it's very solvable, but it means approaching business differently. The first thing that I say to entrepreneurs is that way too much energy and attention is spent on what I call strategic implementation or customer acquisition or marketing before a founder actually understands clearly there are two things, their business framework and then their brand plan. So on the business framework side, there's five questions that I would encourage everyone to really get clear on. What is the marketplace opportunity or problem you're going to solve? How are you going to solve it or take advantage of it?

5:15What makes you uniquely qualified to do? What does your business model look like? And who is your ideal client? You got to get really clear on your business framework. You got that? You remember it all? Don't worry, we're going to explore those ideas and many more in detail and then apply it to real life. Because here's what you're about to hear. I brought Kerry and David together. Kerry, the branding expert. David, the executive mentor who asked how he can stand out. I brought them together for a kind of public consulting session. They spoke in a community that I have, and Kerry did a deep dive into David's work and showed what's working about his presentation and branding and what is not.

5:58Other members in the community joined in too and then started asking their own questions. And in this episode of Problem Solvers, you get to listen in on it all. You'll hear what it sounds like when your branding is reviewed and clarified. You will understand some of the big things you are missing too, and you'll learn how to stand out. By the way, if you want to join in on things like this, the first step is signing up for my newsletter. It is called One Thing Better. That's the web address, actually. It's called One Thing Better. The web address is onethingbetter.email. So just go to the web address, onethingbetter.email.

6:38And from there, you'll see a way to join the community once you sign up. Okay, with that, we're going to take a short break here on Problem Solvers. And when we're back, It is a real life session helping an entrepreneur and you stand out. I lost my job in 2008, right before my wedding, actually. Getting let go would turn out to be my first step toward passive income, a fluid and dynamic way of earning income while changing lives at the same time. I found that online businesses are the best way to do that. It completely changed my life. My name is Pat Flynn. I created the Smart Passive Income podcast back in 2010 for anyone who's ever felt even a little bit like I did when I got let go.

7:22People who want to create and sustain a passive income stream online so they can spend more time with the ones they love, achieve the lifestyle they desire, and turn their passion into a thriving business. Whether you have a side hustle already in the works or you don't even know where to begin, or you just want to crush it with what you got, this show has it all. Wherever you're at in your journey as an online entrepreneur, you're not alone in your quest. Hit subscribe so you don't miss a beat. There's a new episode of the Smart Passive Income Podcast coming your way every Wednesday and Friday, wherever you'd like to listen to podcasts.

7:53Let's get started. All right, we're back. So here's where I'm gonna bring you in on the conversation that happened in this community. I had just introduced David and Carrie, as I have just done for you in the earlier part of this podcast. And I turned it over to Carrie who said, before we dive into David specifically, we need to zoom out and take a broader view of how entrepreneurs establish themselves in a marketplace. She'd listed off those five questions. I'm going to play them again. You just heard them a minute ago, but I know they fly by. So I'm going to play them again, and then she's just going to go.

8:29From there, you'll hear me moderating the conversation between Kerry and David, bringing in questions from some of the other folks who were watching. This all took place on a Zoom. And you'll hear the occasional other actual voice as well. It was really illuminating. I so appreciate Carrie, and especially David, who really laid it all out and was willing to be such an incredible sport in having his work picked apart here. But I think everyone was better for it. All right, let's bring it back to Carrie Harris. On the business framework side, there's five questions that I would encourage everyone to really get clear on.

9:08What is the marketplace opportunity or problem you're going to solve? How are you going to solve it or take advantage of it? What makes you uniquely qualified to do? What does your business model look like? And who is your ideal client? You got to get really clear on your business framework. Once you've done that work, then I move my clients to a brand plan. And that's where we're talking about the CBP, USP, all of those different brand building blocks. So that process is a little bit more in-depth in that understanding your brand building blocks is really critical to actually moving to customer acquisition.

9:45If you don't do this heavy lifting, you're going to run into a challenge that you're going to look like everyone else. And that's a real big challenge for most entrepreneurs is they're working in red oceans, veritable red oceans. If you've read Blue Ocean Strategy, you know what that is. it's a sector or a marketplace that's so crowded that being me too or looking like everyone else will actually kill you. You won't get out of year one or you won't generate any revenue. So being really clear on your ground building blocks is what will allow you to stand up, to stand out, to be that tall poppy.

10:22So most of the time, if I'm working with a smallie entrepreneur or a small business person, I say, let's focus in on those three critical brand building blocks, plus the one, which is the Y we talked about. So the first one is USP, your unique selling proposition. What do you do better than anyone else? You have to be really clear on that. The second one is your CVP. That's your consumer value proposition or client value proposition. And a lot of people use this term wrong. And I always cringe when they use it wrong. But your CVP is how you want your ideal client. And remember, you know a lot about your ideal client because we talked about them in the business framework, but how you want your ideal client to describe you both functionally and emotionally.

11:13So I'll back this up a little bit. A lot of people will say to me, what's a brand? And I always say to them, it's very simple. A brand is a promise delivered consistently across all consumer touchpoints or all stakeholder touchpoints. That's what a brand is, nothing more than that. But brands are both functional and emotional. Functional is, and we have a lot of examples of functional brands. So Microsoft is a functional brand. Apple is an emotional brand. Where we win is when you understand the emotional components of your brand. So how do you want your ideal client to describe your brand, both functionally and emotionally?

11:54Charles Satchi, who was a really famous advertising guy, said that as human beings, we like to think we make decisions based on functionality. In other words, the brand delivers what it says it's going to do functionally, but it doesn't deliver emotionally. And where you win is when you deliver emotionally. Because as human beings, we make decisions based on emotional. and we can see that's why Apple is so popular for the vast majority of people because if you're looking at the brand's functionality, Apple's not a functional brand. Microsoft is a functional brand. Apple's an emotionally-based brand.

12:32Nike, great example of an emotionally-based brand. So that's a little digression into brand. And we could talk about brand for a long time, but maybe for another day. So CVP is how you want your ideal client to describe your brand functionally and emotionally. And you need to be very aware of that. You cannot be all things to all people. And that's the second mistake I see, particularly coaches making, is they just say, I appeal to women, stressed women, but it's not going to be good enough because then that's a veritable red ocean. You have to be really clear on who your ideal client is, who your avatar is in another way, shape or form.

13:13So you have to really get clear because your CVP, your consumer value proposition, is really what you're aiming for when you're creating your brand building blocks. The next one is your brand promise. What does your ideal client or your ideal consumer get from you every single time they interact with your brand? What's the brand promise? So I'll give you an example. So Starbucks, everyone knows, Starbucks brand promises, they're going to be the third place in your day. Most people say to me when I ask that question, what's Starbucks brand promise? And they say great coffee, good pastries, whatever.

13:51Starbucks brand promises that they will be the third place in your day. There's home, work, and Starbucks. That's the brand promise. Disney, their brand promise is making family memories. Notice they don't define family. They just say making family memories. Your families might be your friend. That's the brand promise. seem to be clear on your brand promise. So what do I get when I interact with you as a brand? And then the fourth component we're talking about is your why. So we know what you do and how you do it. Most people know that, but most people don't know why. So why do you do what you do?

14:28And that's important too. Again, there's that emotional. So those are the brand building blocks. Once you have your business framework down and your brand plan down, then you can move to customer requisition because you will have created a brand that's that is anchored in a marketplace understands your ideal client and the brand components or the brand building blocks make you stand out so i always say that if you want to persuade someone to buy your product or service then what you need to do is communicate from the overlap your client has a pain point you can answer that pain point? What is that overlap?

15:06And that's why it's really critical that you understand your algeal client because you need to understand what is their pain point. So I realized this is a lot. I'm just throwing a lot. No, I appreciate that. That was great. So the reason I wanted to carry that having you start was a little bit of an experiment for me because last time we did a hot seat call, we started with the person in the hot seat who was Birna because what I wanted to try here was hearing theory and then let it hit the road. So you gave us a really good broad overview of the tactics that are required. And now let's have David walk right into that.

15:42David, I think your role here is that you're going to be speaking for I think many people on this call who are having very similar experiences. So I'd love to hear about what you've been struggling with as you try to get people to understand how unique you are and where you feel like you're just getting lost in the sea of other people who do at least a somewhat similar thing to you. So I spent 20 years in the tech field as a leader, in particular in user experience. And when I had a personal journey that led me to rock bottom, I started to notice that all the wisdoms of our day, the best practices of our day around high performance, being in fulfillment, all at the root contradicted one another.

16:28When you had to apply it day to day, stay the course to grow stronger. Don't ignore when life is nudging you to change. Say yes to giving to others, being a servant leader, say no and set more boundaries and take time for yourself. And I struggled with that. I landed right in the middle of that. And so I became obsessed in a way with trying to figure out why is nobody noticing this? And is there a way to actually make this sane? And that led me on a wild journey that totally transformed my life, changed my career and so forth. And let me just see that there's this monumentally different way that you can go about your day where you can feel way more alive, way more aligned and way more fulfilled right now.

17:11You don't have to get to some finish line. And it's very different than how we're going about this very crowded space of, okay, how do you be more performant? How do you have a little bit more wellbeing and how do you feel fulfilled at the end of the day? And so I've struggled primarily with everything I read was like, like Carrie said, you don't want to be something to everybody. So I'm like, okay, do I sit here and say, all right, I'm going to, I spend time trying to go, okay, I'll do the burnout thing and I'll focus on wellbeing and I'll focus on this little piece. But at the core, the people that I work with all say that it's like what you do best and what's been most helpful is it's a complete paradigm shift that truly integrates all three that allows this huge transformation to occur.

17:55And to say all that very quickly is a little bit, I found challenging. Maybe there's an easier way to do. And when I try to do it in a short amount of time, oftentimes people just take their spin on it and go, okay, oh yeah, you just do well-being. Oh, okay. You just are a performance coach or whatever else. And it's not really. So that's probably the quickest way I could explain it. Okay. Do you want me to jump in for you? Yeah, please. Carrie. So what are you hearing there? Actually, so David, let me just put a fine point on it. And then Carrie, I want you to take over. So David, you've described basically having a revelation about a very useful, complex thought that can be incredibly helpful to people.

18:37You devoted yourself to understanding it and to helping others with it. But the problem is that when you present it to people, you can't figure out exactly how to present it because if you're too small about it, then people confuse you with other things. If you're too big about it, then you're going on and on forever. So the challenge that you're experiencing, I just want you to hear you articulate it, is that it's hard to find clients or it's hard to explain to people what it is that you do such that they can really appreciate it. Where would you say is the, just the, where does this problem manifest the worst?

19:11I'd say the latter point in terms of how to communicate it effectively. Most of my client base is all word of mouth. And I want to move beyond that because the pain point is really large. There's not a person who doesn't always resonate with, oh, wow, yeah. How do you deal with this or that aspect? Because it does touch different things. the other part of it is not just the what is innovative but how I do it because my journey has led me to explore all these different bodies of wisdom to find a way to solve this and so I integrate things that most people look at and say those can't integrate but that's my special sauce is doing that finding that way and so it's neuroscience it's psychology it's mindfulness it's ancient wisdom when people hear that last part often they're like how does it all fit together.

20:01And so it does. But again, it's how do you communicate that or how do you convey on it? That's been mine. All right, Carrie, those are the questions. Oh, okay. So I, David, I actually spent some time on your website today. So I just had an opportunity to do a bit of a deep dive. And I would say there's a couple of points that I would put on the table for you to think about. And the first one would be exactly, there we go. Okay, so exactly what is it that you want to accomplish with this website? So your website is your most valuable real estate from a marketing toolbox point of view. And the landing page is the most valuable real estate that you can.

20:43And unfortunately, your landing page doesn't actually, isn't actually being utilized the way that it should be utilized. If I'm coming to your website, probably I've either heard you speak or it's a referral or someone said to me, you have to go and check this guy out. And the first thing that I want you to communicate to me is that you understand my pain point because I'm probably pretty much in pain by the time I'm actually coming to your website. I want to know that you understand my pain point and that you can actually help me solve my pain point. So there's that communicate from the overlap point of view.

21:23So I have a pain point. I'm burnt out. I'm stressed. And what you've done here on your landing page is you've gone like all the way to the end benefit without actually telling me, yeah, I get your pain point. So that's not helpful to me because I'm in pain and I actually can't imagine the end point or the end benefit already. So that's the first thing I would say. So your brand building blocks probably need to be really sharpened. And I would recommend to your business framework be sharpened because the problem that you're solving, you articulate it really well to us. You're really clear on that, but it's actually not being articulated on your brand.

22:09marketing toolbox. So remember we said a brand is a promise consistently communicated across all stakeholder touch points. So the next thing I would probably encourage you to do is if we go past the landing page and we go down to who you actually say is your ideal client, you need to be way more specific because you are everything to everyone and that's actually not going to be affected. So you need to choose your avatar. I think you probably want to narrow in on your avatar and be a lot more specific about who you work with. So I'm working with a coach now, actually a lot. He's a lot like you.

22:51Sorry, Carrie, I just want to make, connect what you're saying there, because I bet some people when they look at David's website and see, he asks these questions. Are you a high achieving, accomplished professional who who is considering a big life challenge and unsure whether to stay the course or pivot, sick of how much you spend each day feeling stressed, restless, or uncertain, tired of being successful in many parts of your life, but not able to fix that one nagging area, and so on. It goes on. So in some ways, I would look at that and think, but wait a second, Kerry, you just said that David needs to point out the pain points, but here is a whole list of pain points.

23:26But then I'm hearing you say, but wait a second, the problem is that the pain points that you're describing here are so broad that individuals actually won't find themselves in it. Is that the point that you're making there? Yeah. So if you go up a little bit and we talk about the professional so that the kind of lead into that, you need to be, or I would recommend you be a lot more specific. I have a coach, executive coach, client I'm working with right now. And when we started working together, he just said, I'm going to do executive coaching for everyone. By the end of the work that we did together, it's very clear on it.

24:00His sweet spot is working with technical professionals, specifically in mining. So when you go from professionals, which is a huge broad field to very specific, so it's either psychographically driven or demographically driven, so sector driven, it allows you to tailor your messaging architecture and then your customer acquisition in a much more focused manner. So if you're a sweet spot because you spent 20 years in the tech space and then you've walked in their shoes, you understand them, I would recommend maybe you consider my sweet spot are high performing type A technical professionals at this level.

24:45Now, it doesn't mean that's where you have to stay, but you really want to narrow in on who's your sweet spot, who's that ideal client for you, so that you can test your messaging, you can test your marketing, you can see, okay, is there enough of a total available market in that space? Because once you hone in, then you can expand, but you have to be super narrow and you need to micro focus on one group and get some depth and become a subject matter expert in that group. So once you have that expertise, then you can actually move out. So my executive coach client, he now is looking at, because he's been doing it for about 18 months, super stuck in with the mining field.

25:33Now he's actually moving to engineering. So it's a vertical group that he can actually expand to. Same psychographic overlay. they speak the same language there's lots of referral opportunities from a marketing point of view he can triple dip on his marketing so to speak so that's my first recommendation is get really clear on on that then you can get much more refined on your pain points because you're going to speak specific language to your ideal client so those are really generic pain points That could be anyone. We all actually feel like that. But I want to know, because I have a pain point, I want to know that you're talking to me.

26:14I always say this to clients. You are not the hero of your own brand story. You are not. The client is the hero of your brand story. You are not. You are the wise sage. This is for coaches. You're the wise sage. So it's critical to understand that and put yourself in that mindset. So you want to lead with that very specific pain point, whether it's, and I'm just pulling this out of the air. So let's say the ideal client is a professional in a tech space. There are certain pain points that are super specific to those professionals. That's where you want to hone in on. Because then you'll have people nodding, going, oh my God, this guy gets me.

26:55So that's the important thing is to clip it on its head and say, because kind of like baking a chocolate cake. We all have a secret, like every recipe that you see all has like a secret ingredient, secret sauce. But up front, I'm not really all that interested in the secret sauce. I just want to know you can solve my problem. So I'm going to get really technical here, so bear with me. In order to get someone to buy your products or services, you have to be able to press what's called a demand driver. So as human beings, we all have three levels of demand drivers. We have a primary demand driver, a secondary demand driver, and a tertiary demand driver.

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27:37If you know your ideal client really well, that's part of that process is understanding the demand drivers. What do I have to press in my marketing materials or in my speaking or what are those demand drivers I have to press in order to get them to start nodding and going, oh, I have to get some of this. So that's getting down to the lower. But we've all, as consumers, because we're all consumers, we've all experienced that when people press our demand drivers. So it's a bit more complex, but that factors in. And you can then, through your messaging architecture, once you have your brand building block set, you can actually understand, okay, I'm going to lean on those demand drivers.

28:20I'm going to lean and lean. And eventually, if you do that, because word of mouth is a great way to attract clients initially. but your Rolodex will get old. And so then you have to put in more what I call traditional customer client engagement, traditional channel neutral marketing activities in order to attract clients. And there's a whole bunch of them that you can do that. So that would be the first thing. Before you move on, I'm just curious to hear how this is landing with David. Yeah, is any of this making sense or resonating? It does, because I did a lot with story brands. So for example, the top, it was the aspirational vision of where they're going to end up.

29:03And I've tried going super focused when it comes to sectors. And I think I've got to play with it a little bit because I did lean on the tech thing and I did the burnout thing, but it wasn't my mojo in a way. My mojo is more a pain point. I put this, usually people between 35 and 55, they've tried a bunch of things. They're at a particular turning point and they've dipped their toes in things and it hasn't been enough. I can go a little even more fine-tuned on that. But it's so I get the I could pick tech people within that sub that larger subgroup. But I'm almost wondering if it's more there's a lot of tech people who won't who won't resonate with how I do it.

29:49They will not at all. They'll be turned off the moment they hear ancient wisdom, for example, or even just talking about fulfillment. and I'm just being in it for 20 years. To what extent do you blend in terms of, because when you were going through the list of things, like the why and so forth, I know I probably have a sequence out of play, but I do have that part I feel is there. The part that I've always struggled with is, who do I hone in on? Who will? Without making it seem like it's just not, because I'm not out to save everybody. It's not that. I'm not out to cater to everybody at the same time.

30:19It's not how to phrase it, but there's some part of me that feels like it's more than just saying, okay, I'm focusing on this particular segment of a particular market, such as tech people or miners or so forth. Does that make sense? Absolutely. It's interesting. I just started working with a coach here in Canada. I'm in Toronto. He's dealing with the exact same challenge. So his particular lane really is more in that sort of mindset space, and that's where he wants to work. And so the interesting overlay here is, and I hear what you're saying, so it's not a specific demographic play. It's a psychographic play.

30:58And so what you're really probably wanting to do is to more clearly define your ideal client around an individual driven by purpose or driven by curiosity or something that actually, then you could go across all sectors, but then that qualifier is because you are not for everyone you're it's interesting you're you have one foot in each cap which is can be a unique selling that can be a usb you are a unique blend of the structure and the purpose the philosophical which is the lovely combination so you know it could be that you really want to say up front that your sweet spot is working with professionals driven by driven by purpose or driven by a desire to know more or to learn more or to expand then what will happen is the good news is that you will actually not you'll attract people who go oh my god that's me i'm on a different path i they'll their path will mimic yours so that then should be moved up to the top of your messaging architecture.

32:12And maybe that becomes your USP, your unique selling proposition. So I think that... Sorry, go ahead. Oh, no, finish that thought. And then there's so many questions that I want to start bringing some people's questions in. Yeah. Yeah. So your USP then could be really... The one thing you do best is working with professionals, high-performing professionals who want the next stage of their journey to be driven by purpose or driven by learning or whatever that language is that you want to use, but be really clear on that. And then you will be honing in. So it's a psychographic overlay. That makes sense.

32:57Yeah, totally. That resonates a lot more and feel that. Yeah. Okay, cool. Thank you. Yeah, Carrie, actually, I was, there's a ton of questions and I'm actually just going to start with one of the most recent because I thought it built off what you're describing, but also I feel like you maybe just answered a little bit of it, but I'd love to just hear you think a little bit more, which is that Alicia had asked that she'd love to hear what you would share as suggestions for alternate copy for the website that's above the fold. It will be helpful to bring to life some of her recommendations with examples.

33:27What you just said there was like a good light bulb for me where you said you described David's possible audience as, I can't remember the exact language, which were high achieving professionals who want the next stage to be purpose-driven because that really does it. It establishes the base of who you're talking to and then it narrows it down with the people who want this next thing. And I can instantly see how a whole lot of people, their hands go up and they're like, high achieving professionals. And they're like, and when you're in the next phase, you're like, maybe, I don't know. But then there are some people who are like, yes, exactly.

33:59And that's where you want. Can you maybe dig in a little deeper on what that kind of copy could or should look like? Absolutely. So I think we talked about the top of the fold of the website or the landing page being your most important real estate is, again, going back to that notion that persuasion is about communicating from the overlap. And so that space on your website, I call it messaging architecture. So when you develop your brand plan, part of that is developing your messaging architecture, which hits on all of the points, your brand story, all your brand building blocks. but the important thing would be to actually put yourself in the shoes of the your ideal client and have a really bold statement right on your landing page so some things you can actually use are i like to use data or a research point or a great quote depending on the brand voice how you want to be seen or you can actually then just say can actually articulate the pain point or your or the profile of your ideal client are you a technical or are you a professional who who is looking for the next stage of your journey to be driven by purpose whatever that statement is just put it right up there don't be afraid to chase people off don't be afraid like you you I see way too many websites that are way too copy heavy because they're trying to be all things to all people.

35:31They're all me too. You're not going to persuade me if it is me too. So just, oh, big, bold statement. And here's the other thing. This is so hard for people to do. Rule of thumb, best practices on websites, on all marketing materials should be 70 % visual, 30 % copy. Write that down. It's opposite. it's 70 % copy, 30 % visual. Uh-uh. People love visuals. You can convey so much in a picture. So use them. Craft, iconography, use them. Can I ask a quick thing? Because the statement I have at the top, I thought was pretty bold. So I'm trying to get the nuance of bold here because most people look at me like, really?

36:19And that the people who work with me realize that can happen. and that is the way that forward. So help me understand that because I'm resonating with the way you were saying to the psychographic focus there. Then I heard you say or understood it that make it bold, but it could be a pain point. It could speak to something that they're inspired by. And so I'm confused about that because I feel like I have that latter form. Yeah, no, absolutely. Here's really what comes to me is that this is, I think I touched on this earlier, is that this is the end goal. And right now, I'm so much, I'm so confused and I'm looking for guidance.

37:02I can't even imagine this. I really can't. What I want you to articulate is that you get my pain points and you can help me. This is jumping all the way to the end of the line. So this is how you can feel. But right now, I can't relate to that because I'm like, seriously, I'm like, I'm so looking for something. I need to know that this individual can help me with what I'm looking for. So I want you to articulate that you get that. I want to be able to say, oh my God, that's me. Because that statement actually doesn't say, oh my God, that's me because that's not how I feel right now. Carrie, can you give an example?

37:43Christina just asked this. Can you give an example of something that just that really hits a pain point, something that you've seen that works really well, that articulates that pain point in a way that just filters almost everyone out and nails the person you're trying to reach? Yeah. So let's see. Okay. So I'll, sorry about that. That's my phone. My contractor. Does the contractor have a pain point? Yeah. He, my contractor has a big, he's going to have a big pain point. He was supposed to start this morning on my backband. Anyway. Oh, sorry. Okay. So let me just give you an example. I actually just created a microsite for my website.

38:22And the pain point that I'm going to deal with is if you're a founder or a solopreneur or a small business owner and you've hit a revenue ceiling, I can help you move beyond that revenue ceiling. So really the pain point is I'm so freaking frustrated because I have so many sunk costs into my business. I can't go back. I can't year into it. Things were going really well. I don't know what happened. And typically what the diagnostics is that your business framework is off or your brand plan is off. So that's typically what that does. Honestly, it's super pragmatic on the top of my website. It's my site.

39:00It says, have you hit a revenue ceiling? That is the most frustrating thing for a small business owner or a founder or a coach to hit. So be really specific. So in your case, David, it would be more around, I'm lost. Are you lost? Or are you like, just be really simple and blunt because you want them to nod. You want them to say, oh my God, yeah, I'm lost. Or are you feeling, is it hard to get out of bed in the morning? Think about what was going through your head because you've experienced this journey. That's what makes you qualified to help people on this journey because you've been there, done that.

39:41So think about that, the most painful thing that was going through your head when you actually were thinking about making a change. That's the pain point that'll resonate and just be really blunt about it. Feeling numb, feeling whatever. However, I've had clients say to me that they just, they have contemplated driving off a bridge because they're not going to do that. And if they actually were serious about that, I'd have to refer them to a professional on that front, that frustration. And we're too often, we don't get, we don't get real about that. We try and mask it in nice corporate language and stuff.

40:21Someone who's in pain doesn't want it masked. So I don't know if that answers the question. Yeah. Carrie, we've got, I'm just being mindful of time. We've got 14 minutes, a lot of questions. So I'm just going to turn us into fast answer mode here. Lisa's had her hand up and I'd love for just bringing another voice here. Lisa, you want to welcome and what's the question? Actually, not a question. What I want to say to David, what you're doing, I understand the difficulty in the messaging. So I am a former coach who is now a copywriter and the majority of my clients and then the company that I work for now, it's everything from that health and wellness to what everybody would consider like the woo and the metaphysical.

40:59So I completely understand sometimes I'm trying to market that to people that maybe it's not their bag, right? But from a sloppy writing perspective, to looking at your website. Although you lead with pain points, the overall feel that I get from this home page is it's way more about you than it is about them. You do talk to them a little bit and talk to their pain points, but at the same time, you're like, oh, by the way, here's a meditation, core grind dynamic. I have no idea what that is. Instead of throwing all of these things at them and then, oh, by the way, can get this 52 week sign up for 52 weeks.

41:39I don't even know what you do yet. And you want me to sign up for 52 weeks email. So I think you could scale this homepage back and probably almost a third of what you have here and just speak immediately to this is where you're at. This is where you want to be. This is how we're going to get there. It's you just need to like, because it's copy heavy, but not really, but I think you could get people to a bull call a lock quicker. You could. And the other thing I would add to that, and that's, those are great points, is that, is that if you're, if this is a, again, I started off this by, you really need to be clear on what this website needs to do for you.

42:22So if this is the website to sell your coaching services, then you need to take everything else off that, or you need to add on the nav bar, you need to add sort of speaker profile or workshops or whatever, but the core focus really needs to be on, I'm a coach. So there are parts of your website where you don't even say you're a coach. You say you're an inspirational speaker. And that muddies it for me because if I'm coming and I'm looking for a coach, I don't care you're an inspirational speaker. Sorry, I'm being here, but I'm putting myself in the shoes. So you need to strip it all back and say, I'm a coach and this is my website for coaching, I often will recommend from a personal brand point of view is that you actually create a microsite or another site.

43:10If you really focused on your speaking, you want to actually separate the two because I'm coming to you with a pain point. Now, an event organizer or a conference organizer or a community group, they're going to come at you and they have a need for a speaker. But right now it's really mucky. You have to choose a lane with this website and then the really clear on it. So I agree with Lisa. It's you are. And remember I said earlier, you're not the hero of your own brand story. So you need to actually you need to actually stop because there's too much on there. And I'm the only thing I want to know is I'm intrigued by the work this this guy gets me.

43:51I'm intrigued by the work that he does. And I want to book a call. That's it. Gary, I want to pick up David. I'm going to take I'm going to I'm going to cool your seat for a second so we could just take some questions without it just being a reflection on you. Although I really appreciate your willingness to let people just dig into the work. Carrie, you just said phone call. That reminded me of a question that Ramona had asked a while ago. So let me ask it. At what point do we need to get people on the phone to explain deeper, where maybe the copy alone is not enough? This, I think, is a big point for a lot of folks because the thing that they do is so complex and it's hard to just communicate it in that simple way.

44:27So what's your advice there? How do we, where do you think about that line of hooking people and then getting them on a call to be able to explain deeper? That's the art of selling without selling. There are two things actually, is that if your website is compelling enough and you answer what I'm gonna call that tire kicker questions, i.e. does this website resonate with me? Because remember, we all curate our lives. and that means everything down to coaches. We curate our lives. So your website needs to be a front facing component of your brand voice and that's the critical thing to start with.

45:10So I go, I think this resonates with me. And so what you wanna do is you want to get rid of the tire kickers, qualify them and then give them just enough information that they're confident that you can help them and that them jumping on a call with you will be worthwhile. We talk a lot about funnel strategy and building passive income streams and lead magnets and all that good stuff like that. For coaches, I actually like the first part of a funnel strategy from a marketing point of view. Now, keep in mind, you have to build a tech stack to do that, but it's not a difficult thing to do. and that your lead magnet or i.e.

45:54the content that you send out after someone signs up with you is of such high quality that you further intrigue them because it's a lot to go from i'm just i'm looking at your website to oh i want to i want to allocate 45 minutes with this person because no one likes to be sold to if you warm them up the rule of thumb is it takes eight separate encounters with someone or a company before you can sell them something. Eight. So now that doesn't mean eight conversations. That means eight touch points. I see you speak. I see your website. I sign up. You send me a really great piece of content. You follow up on that content.

46:42You send me some more content. You see what I mean? You're warming someone up and you're moving them down the funnel. You don't have to be creating passive income product. You can just be moving people into a place where they're nodding and they're saying, you know what, I feel comfortable enough that this individual is not going to hard sell me, that they understand me. That's getting to another level from a customer acquisition point of view. Carrie, that was great. Christina, I'm just, I'm like, I want to throw as much as I can at you in the next six minutes. But Christina had asked, I noticed people often don't like to identify with certain pain points or maybe even before that level of awareness, any ways to work around that or spin a more positive way to resonate with their pain points?

47:29Here's the interesting thing. And then the psychology behind a website is that people will do that. They don't do it in a public forum. They do it in a private forum. And they are always willing to acknowledge their pain points. If they're there, they have come to the realization, I need help. So I don't worry about that. You just want to articulate it and get them. Now, there has to be a redemptive arc to this story. Remember, we talked about a brand story. There has to be a redemptive arc. And your redemptive arc is what is the quote you have on your landing page. So in other words, there's five components to a brand story.

48:09There's the hero, which is your client. There's the villain, which is a life not well lived. There's the prize, which is a life well lived or a life with purpose. There's the wise sage, which is you. And then there's the journey and the redemptive art. So that redemptive art, you want to say to people, if you work with me, this is the outcome. And then you demonstrate that with testimonials because you don't want to be telling people that. Here's what my clients say. and then you load on the testimonials. And that's where people will say, oh, hey, it's worked for other people. But that's really how you want to do that.

48:51Katie had asked for resources to help suss out the demand drivers from the sweet spot. Maybe you have some resources to drive people to or maybe you can just spend a minute or two just unpacking the demand drivers a little bit more. That was really interesting. Yeah, it's a complex question. in. So how to suss out the demand drivers. I'll give you an example. So I worked with the Ontario Colleges and Secondary, and I'll make this fast, Ontario Colleges and Secondary Schools Association about three years back. And they were trying to figure out how to make, get more kids into college. And we, it's really, you suss them out through doing research.

49:29So category and consumer research, understanding your ideal client. We found out that the tertiary demand driver for not sending students to college was parents didn't want to be embarrassed and say that their kids went to college. They would never say that. We sussed that out through research. And again, that's why the grand plan process, and it's a heavy lifting, it's you've got to stop and sharpen the axe as opposed to shopping wood, that susses that out. The DIY trick to do that is really to do a really deep dive into your ideal client, like a really deep dive. You know, what's keeping them up at night, what's trending up and trending down in their space, what are the market momentum factors that are affecting them?

50:19It's really just doing your homework, doing some research and don't make assumptions. Do the research. And that's a really simplified answer to a complicated question. So I don't know if that helps. Does that give you something to go on? Carrie, this has been so helpful. We're two minutes out. I'd love for you to just share how people can reach out if they're interested in work with you or just ask them some questions. Yeah, and listen, feel free to send me a note. Or you're just dropping it in the... I'm dropping it in the... Okay, great. Carrie does that. It's funny. something that I thought of during this conversation about pain points, which I'll just share a pretty interesting little accidental experiment by me, which is that as I've told many of you in our conversations, I realized that a pattern of people who joined this community is that everyone is in some way or another going through some kind of transition.

51:12Sometimes that transition is literal, like they left or sold a company or whatever, and they're figuring out the next thing. Sometimes it's just that they're trying to figure out the next phase of their business. So they're not making any major change, but they're trying to figure out how do I go from this to that? Or how do I go from this amount of clients to that amount of clients? And I kept saying that in one-on-one conversations that I had. Transition, everyone seems to be going through a transition and everyone was like, yeah, that's exactly right. I am doing all this. Right. Yeah. Christina says, yes, we talked about this.

51:38Yes, we did. But here's the thing. I changed the language on the sales page for the community to be oriented around transition because it had come up so often and signups slowed down. And then I took it away and that slowdown disappeared. And I was trying to think about why that was. Why did I notice this thing, this pain point? But when I articulated it, people stopped. And I think the reason, I'll throw this out as a hypothesis, we're at time, but maybe Carrie, if you want to offer something and then we'll just wrap, is my hypothesis is, and I think this is probably a useful lesson for everybody, is that the pain point that you identify may not be the pain point that people identify with.

52:19So when I said transition in phone calls with everyone, everyone's like open to it because you're having a conversation with me and you're like, oh, yeah, that's totally right. But that's not the way that they're thinking about their pain point. So when they saw that language, they're like, oh, that's not me. And so the difference between the pain point people identify with and the pain point that you have identified might be different. And in there is also a question of success or failure. Carrie, what do you think? No, I absolutely agree with you. And so what that is, the lesson to be learned is never make assumptions about what's going on in your ideal client's head.

52:55Never. Just let them tell you and let them define what their pain point is. And you will actually get some common threads, common narratives, and then you can use that, build on that. Harry, thank you so much for your time. David, thank you so much for your time and being willing to just be picked apart in public. That was really A plus work there. Really valuable. Thank you to everyone for being here and for the questions. I hope this was really useful. I will post within 20 minutes a link to the video version of this with all the AI notes in the LinkedIn group. And then the May calls, call dates are going to come out later this week.

53:34And we'll do another call next month that's more small group oriented so people can chat more. And this was fantastic. Thank you so much to everybody. And again, Carrie and David, this was so great. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much. And that's our episode. I would love to hear what you think and maybe even about a problem that you solved. You can find me at my website, jasonfeifer.com. J-A-S-O-N-F-E-I-F-E-R.com. Also, I have some more useful stuff for you. I write a newsletter about how to future-proof yourself and become more adaptable and optimistic. I would love for you to sign up.

54:11It is at jasonpfeiffer.bulletin.com. Also, check out my other podcast. It's called Build for Tomorrow. In each episode, I take on some belief that we have that holds us back from progress and show you why it is not as bad as you think. Problem Solvers is a production of Entrepreneur Media and comes out every Monday morning. So make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss an episode. Thanks to Deepa Shah for production. My name is Jason Pfeiffer. See you next week.

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