The 9 Types of People You Need On Your Team

0:00When someone comes to my door, I know, because I'm using SimpliSafe. I get an alert straight to my phone and I can see, is this someone I should unlock the door for because I know them? Or is it someone I need to tell to get lost? But here's the thing I love most about SimpliSafe. It works when I am not looking at my phone too, because when I'm not keeping an eye out, SimpliSafe is. SimpliSafe is proactive with a double layer of defense that stops crimes before they start. First, AI-powered cameras spot potential threats outside, and then live agents step in, talking to the person through the camera and letting them know they're on video and police will be dispatched if they don't leave.

0:44They can even trigger a loud siren or spotlight. That's how you help stop a crime before it starts. And SimpliSafe makes it easy to use. There are no long-term contracts, no hidden fees. You can cancel at any time. It was named Best Home Security Systems by U.S. News and World Report for five years running. It offers a 60-day money-back guarantee, so you can try it and see the difference for yourself. This month only, take 50 % off any new system. This is one of the best prices you will ever see for SimpliSafe, so don't miss it. Just go to simplisafe.com slash problem solvers. Again, that is SimpliSafe, S-I-M-P-L-I, S-A-F-E, simplisafe.com slash problem solvers and lock in your discount.

1:33There's no safe like SimpliSafe. From Entrepreneur Media, this is Problem Solvers, a show in which entrepreneurs do what entrepreneurs do best, solve unexpected problems in their business. We were completely wrong. And I'm just like, it's not selling. It was like, we have to start from scratch. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, the editor-in-chief of Entrepreneur Magazine.

1:59Building a winning team is really, really simple. All you need to do is follow this formula. There's V, VV, VSVM. Then there's S, SV, SM, SS, SV, SM, and then MV, MS, and MM. Got that? Totally simple. Okay, fine. I'm making light of it because it did sound very complicated, but I want to start that way because even though the thing that you are going to hear today sounds complicated, it is actually pretty simple once you understand it, and it is pretty revelatory. So let me start by telling you about the woman who came up with this. I'm Jen Kem. I am the author of Unicorn Team, the nine leadership types you need to launch your big ideas with speed and success.

2:48She also runs a company called Master Brand Institute. It is a strategy firm that helps personal product and corporate brands bring new ideas to market. And a big part of the work that they do is focused on building the right team to take the best product to market. This real strategic thing to do is to ask yourself not just what you want to do, but who you need to do it with in order to make it fly. Most people talk about who you need on your team as a kind of discipline thing. You need a person who's good at this. You need a person who's good at that. You know, you need a person who fills this role and that role and that title and so on.

3:26But Jen does something different, something that leads to all that letter soup that you just heard a second ago. What Jen says is that there are really three kinds of, let's call them skills. And those skills are vision, strategy, and mobilization. So that is the V, S, and M that she was talking about. Vision, strategy, and mobilization. And everybody in some way or another has some vision, has some strategy, and has some mobilization skills. But the thing is, this is her core insight here, the thing is that we all have them in different weights. You can think of it as everybody has a kind of primary skill and a secondary skill, and they all combine differently.

4:16So you might be primarily a vision person and secondarily a strategy person. So you would be a VS in her language. Or you would be a vision person first and a mobilization person second. So you would be a VM. And then she has names for all these things. So if you're a VS, a visionizing strategizer, basically, then you are a legend. If you are a SV, right, because you could be a person who is primarily a strategist, but also secondarily a visionizer, a visionary person. So if you're a SV, if you're a strategizing visionizer, then you are a mastermind. So it's kind of an interesting way of thinking about it, you know, where you want to identify in every person, what is their mix of being a vision person, a strategy person, and a mobilization person?

5:06And then how can you identify who these people are such that you build a team that is well-balanced so that you've got enough VSs and SVs and MVs and VMs and SMs and so on? You can have all the vision in the world, but without strategy and execution, it doesn't come to life. So today on Problem Solvers, this is what we're doing. We are bringing this to life. And I wanted to start up top by just laying this whole thing out with the V and the S and the M, because as you'll hear in the conversation, Jen throws these letters around and it can sometimes be a little hard to follow. but the insight here is really useful and stay tuned because i have jen interview me and identify which of these i am and then we uh we unpack that it's actually a really fun interesting exercise and we're thinking about yourself uh you know are you a vs are you a vm are you an sv are you an ms there's a lot of combinations but the point is that once you understand it, you know what your strength is and what strengths from other people you must be surrounded with.

6:25All coming up today on Problem Solvers after the break. All right, we're back. Today, I am talking with Jen Kem, author of the new book, Unicorn Team. And let's just dig into it. I started the conversation by making that observation that I made a little earlier, which is that most people talk about teams in terms of discipline, but she's talking about them in a totally different way. And here's why she says that's really important. Yeah. So there's, you know, again, the core pillars are the three. So it's the visionizer, strategizer, and mobilizer. And in those three core pillars are a secondary, almost like a wing, like your secondary energetic, motivational thinking type.

7:12Right. Let me talk about the V, the S and the M first, because at the core, at the end of the day, what the visionizer energy cares about most is motivated by, will push through hard things when they appear is their vision and their ideas. They are obsessed with their ideas almost to the point of like galactic ways. Like they're just thinking of it in like the biggest way possible. They're up in the clouds, but they're very motivated by that. And that's why visionizer energy types are people people love to follow because people want to be inspired by that, you know, by ideas and their worth. Now, strategizer energy, which I am a high S, are people who are motivated by results.

7:58and so they don't care about what it takes to get there. They're more concerned about what are the different pathways to get there and are willing to actually like try on the different pathways to get the result that will get the thing to come true, the idea to come to life. And then the mobilizer types are the type of people who feel energized by doing an accomplishment. They actually don't care even if they like results, but their biggest result is, did I get it done today? That's how they do the metric around results. And so when we look at the different, the nine iterations of the V, the S, and the M, in my case, I'm a strategizing visionizer.

8:45So I'm an S, okay? And therefore, I lead with what's the problem and how are we going to solve it first? And that I think like that first. That's the first thing I see when there's an idea. Like, okay, the reason the idea exists at all is because there was a problem. That's how I have to think. Like, oh, there was something here that needs to be fixed. Great. How am I going to fix it? And because I'm a visionizer second, any vision I have for an idea that I have doesn't even pass muster if I, at the top, don't feel like I can solve the problem to get to the vision. So I easily delete things that I feel like from a vision perspective aren't worth my time, energy, or money.

9:28Now, if you're like an MV, right? So you're a mobilizing visionizer. You're motivated by doing an accomplishment. A great example of that person or leader is like Martha Stewart. I like to use her as a good example for that. Because Martha Stewart has succeeded mainly through demonstration. You know, she wanted to change the way homemaking looked, right? She wanted to show how to make a beautiful table, how to make food, like beautiful food, how to like make your bed and how to tend to your garden. And if you actually follow her story and you even watch her recent thing on Netflix, she gets up every day, 5 a.m.

10:08She tells her staff at her farm exactly what she wants to do. They have a checklist daily of what she wants to get done. um and fun fact fun fact i have been oh to martha stewart's house and i have seen her walk over to like a guy who was watering a tree and give her instruction give him instructions on how to water the tree better so uh yeah she was like i was there because i'm friends with her niece and we were in the area we came by we used the pool and martha came out and she was very nice and she like brought us some kind of fancy lemonade or something. And then she saw the guy watering the tree wrong and she had to go over and like tell him.

10:46So yes, all that tracks. That's high M energy right there. And instead of it, you know, we, again, we live in a society where we think vision is everything. If you're going to be successful or you're, you know, you're going to motivate other people to follow you. But no, Martha has motivated people by being just herself, which is she is high M. She's very detailed. She's precise. And it may rub some people the wrong way, but it hasn't gotten in the way of her success. And so, I mean, I could go through all nine types and give you all the examples, but is that good? Or do you want more of a taste?

11:16Do you want me to go break down every single one? Because I'm happy to do that. No, no. Well, we don't have time for that. That's what the book is for. But I think it's important and valuable for people to hear the core concept here, as I understand it, is basically, you know, I have to say, it's much easier to follow all the letters once you've got it in front of you. In audio, it like kind of flies by. So I want people to not feel like their heads are spinning. But what it sounds like you've really done here is you have identified a kind of small set of ways in which people think, and then you have charted the way in which those ways combine differently for different people, right?

12:01Yes. So it's almost as if we all have some versions of the same materials, but we have them in different orders and we have some more than others. And that's going to combine to create different ways of working and different ways of relating to each other. So that's how you get, and you have nice names here, if I'm correct, right? So some of these things, like the Visionizing Strategizer, which is VS, Yes, but you also just call that person the legend. Totally. And the strategizing visionizer, which is SV, is also just called the mastermind. Yeah. So why don't you zoom out now and tell me, if I have identified what kind of person I am, how on earth do I identify what kind of person other people are such that I can assemble the correct team?

12:53because it is easy to say that person knows marketing. It is much harder to say that person is a mobilizing strategizer. I don't know how to begin to do that. How do you do that? Well, the good thing is, again, no tricks here. I mean, in the book, I actually have the assessment in the book. So you can, with questions that you can ask, there's actually a digital assessment as well if you want to take it, that the book gives you all that information to go take it. but it's such a great way to interview, if you will, if the next person is the right person for the team. So, because usually we're going to interview just on skills and capabilities, which you absolutely should do.

13:33You don't want to just hire somebody who doesn't know what they're doing for the job that you need them for. But this piece is now that extra piece that nobody really talked about, which is like what motivates them to go the extra mile when things are hard? because that's what this is about. There are tons of books and thoughts, pieces on time management. And my book is about actually energy management because we can create time and we can hire great people that have the skills, the resume, et cetera. But it's actually the people who, inside of the time that you have for any project or any initiative that you want to get out there, how do you assemble a team who will, hunker down because energetically it's the right mix of humans to make that idea come alive.

14:24And that's the difference. It's like, so you definitely should always be hiring, even if it's part-time contractor, I even like use this to hire my fitness trainer or like, whoever I need in my personal team so that I'm feeling like when I'm not working my best, there are other people on the team that energetically can lift stuff out because we know that new ideas take energy. They don't just take time. They take energy. And so in the book, again, to answer your question directly, there's an assessment and you can give it to anybody to just find out, hey, like, look, we got this new idea together.

15:01I'm an SV. Again, I'm an SV. I'm an actual mastermind, which is the name of the SV. And I need more high M's to be able to push my ideas through. And so I'm always looking for M's that have an S in them. whether they're an MS or an SM, because I need a strategic thought partner that's doing things. Like I don't want to be the one doing as much. I want to be the one thinking more and visionizing more. And I need somebody who has that bridge. So typically I'll be looking for people who score either SM or MS when I'm hiring for my team because of the kind of leadership type I am. Okay, so it requires a kind of assessment.

15:43Can we role play for a minute? Yeah. Can I be interviewing for a job at your company and you ask me some questions and then you tell me what you have learned about me by asking these questions? Yeah. Great. Let's do it. Okay. Thanks, Jen. I really appreciate you making the time. I'm so interested in this role. Okay, great. So when times get tough and let's say we're encountering like a really annoying person or someone who's blocking our forward progress, how would you handle that situation? with the individual yes with the individual that you had to have conversation with well so my general feeling is that every person is showing up trying to do the best that they can and if they are not doing the best that they can then something is missing either in their knowledge set or something is happening outside of work that is halting them uh i have this uh obsession with a concept called self-determination theory, which says that everyone needs the same three basic psychological needs, which is autonomy, relatedness, and competency.

16:52And so if they're missing something there, I want to understand what it is because my gut tells me that we can probably turn them into a better performer if I understand the thing that is missing right now for them. So that's how I would approach it. Amazing. And when you think about your greatest work output in the role that you're applying for. Let's say you're applying whatever the role you're applying for right now. Sure. Um, what would make you feel complete at the end of the day? Um, most, would it be, you know, getting everything in your task list done? Would it be, um, thinking about the next big move or would it be like envisioning the next 2.0 version of already what you guys are in the middle of building?

17:36I love being able to execute visions. And so the thing that would matter to me most isn't necessarily even breaking down the specific tasks, although I can do that. I'm a strategic enough thinker that I create a little daily to-do list every morning of the things that must get done to move the projects along. But the thing that I hold myself to as a measure of success is over time, have we evolved in the direction in which we believe we need to go to? Good. Okay, great. And then finally, what do you enjoy? When you think about your best project you've ever worked on and you thought about there was somebody on the team, thought partner, play partner, you know, somebody.

18:29Describe that person. Why were they so enjoyable and got things done with you in an easeful slash highly energetic way, even when times were tough? So the people who I love working with the most, and when I'm leading a team, the people who I want on that team, are people who are fast thinkers, full of ideas, are not married to any of those ideas. And also, even if I am above them, technically speaking, even if they report to me, they have the confidence to tell me that my ideas are bad and then back it up with thoughtful feedback or analysis. I mostly value people who are willing to tell me that my idea is bad and are also at the ready with 10 new ideas and then are also totally fine with me telling them that their ideas are bad um I feel like that's those are the people who I enjoy working with the most nice okay well those three questions alone I feel like and you haven't I don't know if you've taken the assessment probably not yet but no do you like to hear what i think you might be leaning toward that is the reason that we just did that whole yeah yeah i mean i feel like you're a strong v and i think you're remind remind remind us and for those who don't have the chart in front of us like yeah so what does that mean v is vision strong visionizer so you have a pulse on what's happening next you can see it.

20:05You're very inspired by it. And I feel like I'm right on this. I think you're a secondary S and a strategizer. So a strategizer is somebody who is, again, motivated by results, but is very good at communicating the bridge between the vision and the execution. And so when you're communicating with people, whether there's a breakdown or it's actually you're in momentum, you're a great translator of the vision. That's what I'm hearing. And that's why you enjoy working with people that when you translate it, that when it lands on them, they know what to do. They can mobilize it and go with you or give you feedback or pushback and say, here's actually how the sausage actually is made.

20:49And maybe you didn't know that, Jason, but here's how the sausage is made. So I want to show you that that's how it's happening. So then does that make you rethink the strategy you're asking us to pursue. And so I feel like you're a VS. And if I was a, I think that that sounds right, but I'm just, I want to test it. So as a reminder, the three concepts you have here is VS and M, so vision, strategy, mobilization. So let's say that I was a, let's say that I was a, you know, primarily a vision person, which I think is correct. What would it mean if I was a vision and mobilization person instead of what you just described, which was a vision and strategy person.

21:27So what would that sound like? You would actually, I think the difference would be, because I think you are naturally strategic too. And remember, these aren't like, sometimes it's radically different. Like you're a very, very high V and a high S or a VM. Sometimes you're very low V or low, you know. So in my mind, even as you've interviewed with me today, I think that if you are an M secondary instead of an S, the difference would be, you would demonstrate, you would create frameworks, you would show at least kind of the meta steps that you see on the pathway as you're describing it. And without, if you're in your healthy V, I call it, like you're in your healthy V where your ego's not as attached to the idea, where it's more like, hey, we're going after this idea together.

22:16I definitely have a vision for it, but I'm not married to the complete formation of it. If you were a high M in your second position, you would go the extra mile of like, I still want to be more detailed in the pathway. I want to show you kind of like these bigger steps. Whereas an S will say to their team, look, these are kind of the campaign ideas or the initiative ideas. This is what we're going after. And I want you to bring me the picture. I want you to develop the prototype, show it to me so then we can have a dialogue. If you're an M, you would actually built the picture first as the first draft so that the team could go after it.

22:56So that's kind of the difference between an S and an M in this scenario. Okay, that's really helpful. Right, and that definitely helps me validate your impression of me. I am not the person who makes the spreadsheet and I am not, like I, you know, I have lived in the, I've made magazines for decades. I also make tons of other kinds of media. I am at any one time under 10 different deadlines. I do not have a content calendar. I've never built one. If I built one, I would never look at it. I just am not that kind of person. I need someone else to build a system and I need them to look at the system and then just tell me what to do.

23:37I don't even want to look at it. So that's right. So now I, like going through that, I now understand like you need people who are good at all these things and you need them in different combinations. And when you are conscious of what these things are and the way in which they combine in different people in different ways, the better you can then intentionally build a team that has all those people so that you don't just have like a team full of visionizing strategizers who all think that they're legends and nobody's actually going to build a spreadsheet about anything. Exactly. I mean, you have the same type as Steve Jobs, right?

24:17And Steve Jobs is definitely like the ultimate VS. And even when entrepreneurs ask me like, oh, well, you know, but I'm not trying to build a big company. I want to build a lean, you know, company. I want to have products that people want to follow. And I'm like, again, size agnostic. Like your dream, this framework is not about size or size even of your vision of like, do you want to build the next Apple or do you want to actually build more of a lifestyle brand where you work 25 hours a week and you make X amount of money? It works all the same. It's more about the question of like, who are you?

24:51What kind of leader do you have to be so that other people who would follow you and help you make that vision come true, make it happen? And the reason I use Steve Jobs and I even used Martha Stewart is I like to use personal brands that we all recognize so we can see like how they did it. They all started in their house across the kitchen table and decided they wanted to create something bigger. So in your case, Steve Jobs being in the same category as you as a VS, he was known not to be like the greatest guy to work for, but yet people would rally because that his ideas were so well thought of and formed as he spoke of it, that he could rally other people, the M's, the coders, the engineers, the Steve Wozniak's who actually like know how to build the machine.

25:41And that's what I mean by using this work in the book to really identify the energy and the motivational energy that people have. And then also capabilities and skills. because I think that speaks to the thing that you're talking about, which I love, is when you can speak to people's motivational energy, that's really their autonomous. They're feeling like autonomous because they're like, oh, you recognize what really makes me tick, what makes me interested in the work or the idea that we're pursuing. And if you understand that, you can get people to do anything with you. And that's the heart of what I think building a legendary brand ultimately is about.

26:23is like these people. And again, they don't have to be visionaries or high Vs because again, Martha Stewart is an M and there's a lot of people who are high S's that are these legendary founders, but they did it in a way that made sense for them. And then they rallied people around that and chose that way. Really, really insightful. Jen Kem, thank you so much for joining me. Can you just let folks know where they can find the book and where they can find you? Yeah, I mean, the book is available everywhere. You can buy books. And I love to hang out on LinkedIn and YouTube. And if you run across me on any of those channels, please feel free to reach out because it's really me responding to you.

27:04Fantastic. Jen, thanks so much. Thank you, Jason. And that's our episode. I would love to hear what you think and maybe even about a problem that you solved. You can find me at my website, jasonfeifer.com. J-A-S-O-N-F-E-I-F-E-R.com. Also, I have some more useful stuff for you. I write a newsletter about how to future-proof yourself and become more adaptable and optimistic. I would love for you to sign up. It is at jasonpfeiffer.bulletin.com. Also, check out my other podcast. It's called Build for Tomorrow. In each episode, I take on some belief that we have that holds us back from progress and show you why it is not as bad as you think.

27:44Problem Solvers is a production of Entrepreneur Media and comes out every Monday morning, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss an episode. Thanks to Deepa Shah for production. My name is Jason Pfeiffer. See you next week.