Why Nostalgia Sells Even For New Brands

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2:18Just go to quickbooks.com slash money. Again, that is quickbooks.com slash money. Terms apply. Money management services are provided by Intuit Payments Inc., licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. From Entrepreneur Media, this is Problem Solvers, a show that solves entrepreneurs' toughest problems. I'm Jason Pfeiffer, Editor-in-Chief of Entrepreneur Magazine, and each week I take a problem that you're probably dealing with and get tactical solutions from people who have been there and solved that. So let's get solving. When we think of nostalgia, we often think of, well, I guess it depends on when you were born.

2:59For me, it's music from the 90s and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and grunge clothing and these very concrete, tangible references to the things I loved as a kid. But there's another way to think about nostalgia, and it's this. To grab people by their emotions and by their heart. That is a guy named Jason Liebig, and he has one of the most fun job titles I've ever heard. Yes, hi, my name is Jason Liebig. I am a brand historian and consultant, archivist, etc., etc., television host on occasion. Maybe you've caught him on The Food That Built America, for example, or other history channel shows where he is an on-camera storyteller who talks about the history of brands we love.

3:46And I'll tell you more about that in a minute. But first, let's get back to nostalgia because to Jason, nostalgia isn't just a warm and fuzzy feeling. It is a tactical branding strategy too. For me, where this particular tool can be especially useful is where your brand, you know, and the thing you're conveying to consumers or customers is just not sticking. It's not breaking through. You know, you're caught in a little bit of static. There's sameness out there. And so what should you do? You do something he calls nostalgia anchoring. Nostalgia anchoring at its most basic is simply using facets of nostalgia to hook people, to be sticky, right?

4:28And maybe this means actually referencing things from the past, or maybe it's just evoking an emotion from childhood or feeling like you're doing things the way they used to be done. And in this episode, we're going to unpack exactly what that looks like and how some brands do it great and how it can give you an entirely new way to think about nostalgia and appealing to people's emotions and rising above the competition as a result. But okay, wait, before we get further into that, let me back up and answer a few questions that you might have, like, to start? Wait a second. Did that guy say he's a brand historian?

5:05And what the heck is that? It's a much longer story than we have time for. Okay, well, let's take the short version. I would say that 25 years ago, an interest in design that was birthed while I was at Marvel Comics, because I was not educated in design, I gained an informal education in design. And I found myself fascinated with brand packaging design. and that sort of was the thing that cracked it open for me. It was, at first, just a note of personal nostalgia. I wanted to revisit a personal nostalgic part of my own past. And then as I got into it, I realized it was sort of a white space that had really been untapped, it had been unexplored, and so I started exploring it, not intending to end up where I am now.

5:52And yet, I always tell people, if someone had already done this, if there was a huge encyclopedia where all this had been talked about, archived, documented, I would have bought that book or bookmarked that website. I'd been like, great, I'm good. And my life would look totally different now. The fact that no one did, I was sort of driven by this curiosity to explore it, to document it and share it. And then that ended up, I ended up documenting more like consumer packaged goods packaging than anyone else online, probably still to this day, I would think, because I think I've archived over 20 ,000 pieces.

6:23And this, in some way, led Jason to be on those History Channel shows. The food that built America, the mega brands that built America, hazardous history with Henry Winkler. And today, most importantly, of course, he is on Problem Solvers, helping you stand out with nostalgia anchoring, which is what we're going to do right after the break. All right, we're back. I am talking with brand historian Jason Liebig about an interesting strategy to stand out and connect better with your customer. It is something he calls nostalgia anchoring. And just a moment ago, he set up the problem for us. It's when you just don't feel like your story is breaking out, which I know a lot of entrepreneurs can relate to.

7:06You have a great product. You know it works or that it's delicious or whatever. You know that if you could just get it into people's hands, they will love it. They will appreciate it. They will buy more of it. But you just can't get the attention that the brand deserves. To which Jason says, to fix that problem, we need to start by looking at the story you're currently telling. You know, I think a lot of brands, especially today, certainly in CPG, they try to come at you with data. You know, they try to come at you with 20 grams of protein. you know, this, we have these ingredients and look, those are all important parts of the puzzle.

7:44But if you're just competing on data, it's going to be hard because also consumers, data, don't get me wrong, people study it. There are some people who are obsessed with it and maybe it'll work with them. But generally, and also if you are obsessed with it, someone can come along and just get a slightly better data point. You're like, oh, okay, I'm going to move that aside. The way you grab people and hold people is by storytelling. And by, and like I said, if you can convince them that their brand is part of your personal story and you adopt that and internalize it, that is how we get over the decades brand loyalty.

8:18I call this brand fandom, which is a, I like to call it a heightened version of brand loyalty. When I was getting my marketing degree a lifetime ago, we talked about brand loyalty in school, but I call it brand fandom because I come from fandom and I think it's a powerful emotive thing. So, okay. Now tell me how a solution to this is something you call nostalgia anchoring. Yeah. So look, on the surface, nostalgia can be, oh, Frosted Flakes, we're going to make the box look like it did in 1975. And that is effective. That's a great tool. If you are a brand that has been around forever, you can call back to that to make your brand sticky.

8:57And so there are lots of different ways you can do that. And I see people doing it. Certainly over the last few years, there has been this thing called dopamine design in packaging, and you see it a lot in the probiotic sodas. And really, dopamine design is nostalgia anchoring. That kind of design throws back to the 70s. It throws back to childhood. It's simple. It's emotive. It's delicious in its visuals. What is dopamine design? Yeah, so dopamine design, you know, in the age of minimalist design, you know, clean lines, not a lot going on. Dopamine design is unabashed in its desire to make typefaces sort of bulbousy and liquid.

9:38It's this very, what I would say the easiest way for me to convey it in layman's terms is imagine a lava lamp is your designer, and that's dopamine design. It's soft, it's fluid, it's motion, and it can also be just very bright colors, very bright, a little Lisa Frank. Lisa Frank isn't really the design thing, but those, that color scheme. So dopamine design is anything that's really going to affect you. And I think dopamine design is a type of nostalgia anchoring because it does, it goes right to that sort of pre that adolescent sort of joy of color and fun and happiness and bounciness. Yeah.

10:16Can you give me some brands that I might be able to instantly think of that illustrate this? So someone can picture something. That's a good question. People play at it. I've seen like Poppy play at it at Dopamine Design, certainly their logo. They just did a special edition flavor. You know, there are a lot of emerging CPG brands that have leaned in on this. But you got onto Dopamine Design as a way of talking about nostalgia anchoring. So we can go back to that. So like what you're, it sounds like what you're talking about here is two things. Number one, what lives in contrast to whatever the very familiar modern aesthetic is?

10:58So most brands are going to lean into a similar style of thing. Whatever that era is right now is certainly a lot of clean lines. and then also number two is what is going to in some way anchor to something that people carry around more emotionally so you know you were saying if you're frosted flakes you can bring back the design from 1975 and it's just for anybody who was eating frosted flakes back then it just evokes a certain experience but of course not everybody is frosted flakes and also you don't want to necessarily be that specific about it. Instead, what you want to do is just create these little moments in design that make people feel something because it's a little pathway back to their past.

11:46Is that right? That's accurate. But I would say this, it doesn't have to be exclusively derived from design. Nostalgia anchoring can be a process. It can be, you know, look, and this sounds, this is going to sound, oh yeah, of course, it can be about sending a handwritten thank you note. That is nostalgia anchoring, things that people used to do. You could have, you know, you could call a sale your bake sale, because even the idea of a bake sale, it's like, ah, man, that reminds me of growing up, right? You know, even if it has nothing to do with bakery, you're selling cookies, right? You could be a plumber.

12:24It's like, oh, we're having our annual bake sale. It's like, come on down, you know, or we'll come out, whatever, we'll make you make you a great deal. So nostalgia anchoring, because I think, again, because I do talk with and talk a lot about big brands, but when I do think about smaller brands, how can you do this? And I've seen people do it through design, certainly, but also through process, through tradition, through the way you do things. And so there are tricks you can do, you know, and there are tools, this tool you can use in different ways. It is anything that's going to make you feel a certain way.

12:55And that's what it is all about. It's about, I think the way you do it is through storytelling and storytelling can be through design, but it can also be through the way you do things, the way you convey your message and the way you interact with your customer, you know, sending handwritten thank you notes. These are interesting things that will trigger people in a way that an email doesn't, right? Or an email, you know, it's like our big, our Black Friday sale doesn't necessarily do. Yeah. Okay. So this is interesting because when we first started talking i was thinking about this more as a design thing but i love you throwing in the idea of a handwritten thank you note is a nostalgic experience so let me tell you the two examples that pop to mind as you were talking one is design one is not you can react to them and maybe add some more examples so the design one and this might be obscure for people so go google it if you uh if you don't know what I'm talking about.

13:48But there is a sort of better for you snack brand called Back to Nature. And the old version of the design, they just updated their packaging in, I'd say, maybe Q2, Q3 of 2025, or at least that's when I started to notice it. So the old version of the packaging was really leaning in on nature. It was Back to Nature, as in that kind of thing from the last 10, 20 years that was very popular in CPG of we're going back to simpler ingredients. We're going back to a more natural, nature-oriented and nature-inspired experience. And so their packaging was very plain and it really leaned in on natural. You could see it in a natural food store.

14:35And we've really, as consumers, moved away from that. And so they did this very interesting thing, which was that they shifted the emphasis away from nature and to the phrase back to, and then reinvented what back to means. And I haven't talked to anybody over there, but that's what I'm seeing because it used to be back to nature as in we're going back to nature, but now it's back to like the seventies and you look at the packaging now and it's got this very retro fun vibe. it has established 1960 very large on it it says keeping it real and everything that it does is now and so it says if you go to the website it says tasty snacks since way back so now it's emphasizing a different kind of way back and not a back to nature but back to a simpler time for you which is very nostalgic in its nature i can see you googling something so maybe you'll see it Yeah, back to nature.

15:29Oh my gosh, yes. So, number one, before I move on to the second example, like, this is a very heavy-handed version of what you're talking about because they're really leaning into a retro kind of look. But I'd love, because you have probably a more robust design vocabulary than I do, if you could describe what you're seeing and what you think might work about it. Yeah, I mean, look, what's great about that is it's very simple. that, you know, the design itself is shaped. There was a thing that was done a lot in design starting in the 60s. They would shape these designs to fit spaces. So if you were a locksmith, you would literally put your name and the name of your business in the shape of a key, you know, and so you would shape it around.

16:13The old Mountain Dew logo, which I think they've revived a little bit, was sort of shaped into a cube, but the mountain was this big shape. Yeah, they actually just changed. Yeah. Fun fact is that, yeah, Mountain Dew. So Mountain Dew used to be Mountain Dew. And then for a while, they went to MTN and they just abandoned that and went back to the forward mountain, which is interesting. Yeah, it is. No, and that's nostalgic, right? People look at that and it's like, ah, yeah, of course. And you've seen those brands, but no. So when you look at that and I see brands doing it in more subtle ways, and this isn't, some of this isn't necessarily nostalgic, nostalgic anchoring, but where you're moving away from some of the effects within logos from a design standpoint, some of the shine, some of the reflectiveness, where they're flattening the logo, which from a design sense just makes it easier to read, but also makes it seem a little throwback-y.

17:05It does make it seem throwback. And yes, Back to Nature are definitely leaning in on their nostalgic anchoring. They have not been around since the 70s, but now they look like, oh yeah, that reminds me of the stuff I used to throw in my lunch bag when I was a kid. Although actually, I think they have been around since the 70s because it says established in 1960s. So who knows? Oh, well, there you go. Okay, maybe they have. I don't know the brand well enough. But so two things there. So by the way, also for people who can't picture it, it's very pastel color palette now on the boxes. You're right that they have flattened that logo.

17:39And you mentioned that logos are being flattened now. And that's totally true. And something that I have heard is that that is not just for the retro feel, but it is also because a flattened logo is easier at multiple scales. So it's easier to shrink it down to a social media icon size. People might notice that the Pringles logo, for example, like that man with the mustache, just got a lot simpler. and the reason Pringles said that they did that was so that it would look good in very small form on digital and social. So that's pretty interesting. But also the shape of text that you mentioned was that jumped right out to me.

18:21So I'm sure everybody can picture that, how you're using text to create a shape. Back to Nature does that in that the words back to are on a top level and then the word nature is underneath it. And you could have that as a big block, but instead what they've done is they've kind of created this curvature through it so that the words kind of, they start, the word back to starts larger and then gets a little smaller and then larger again, and nature starts smaller and then gets larger and then smaller again, so that it has this kind of wavy flow to it, which is really appealing, and then makes text also feel like art, which is also very, not now, but evocative.

19:02Yes. Now, wavy, flowing, make it look like art. I know a lot of type designers, and I love when I see it. So for me, it definitely pops up, but I think it resonates differently. It's funny you talk about people flattening their logos. Rolo, the caramel, the Hershey's caramel little pop. They hadn't changed the logo in 25 years. Five years ago, they updated it, made it more flashy, gave it all this design stuff, And then they just completely redid the whole design language and it's flat. It's clean It's got a very, you know simple background and it's just like oh, yeah, that's gonna pop off the shelf You know, right, right and it's so funny these things just happen so cyclically because yeah Everybody follows into some new trend and then the thing to do is actually to be the inverse of whatever that new thing is And that's how you stand out.

19:50So anyway, so that's my zigzag yeah zigzag and then the then the other one is chewy so chewy is legendary for its customer service and they will do things like commission a painting of your dog and send it to you they'll send flowers when your pet passes away these kinds of things that you just don't get from a big company that you would associate with the care and love of your local mom and pop shop that you've been going to for decades. And they're spending the time and energy to do that at scale. And it is the reason why little moments of chewy customer support will go viral on a regular basis because people are so shocked by it that they immediately post it online.

20:44And then everybody who has a pet who appreciates love for their pet and who has lost a pet or whatever the case is, feels supported, seen, cared for, they pile on. And that I never thought of as something that you would call nostalgia anchoring. I just thought that's really good customer service. But you're right. It is evoking a different time and relationship. And that is nostalgic. Yes, I agree. No, I think and I think it's both. I think it is just great customer service, but it is nostalgic. It is exactly as you said in a day, you know, and look, most adults today probably weren't even around when there were just mom and pop shops in local places where everybody knew your name, but it evokes that feeling.

21:25And that is, you know, when people are overwhelmed by the complexities of modern life, this simple idea that someone would care about you when your pet passes away. That is something you will never forget. And talk about grabbing people by their hearts. That's a brilliant move by Chewie. You literally grab them by the heart. It feels anti-corporate. It feels authentic. It feels true. And, you know, it's incredible. You can be very cynical about it, but why? You know, it's just, you know, yeah, you could ruin it with cynicism. You could say, ah, they're just opportunistic, you know, yeah. But it's like, we are human beings.

22:07we are social creatures, we want to connect. And when we feel that connection, even if it's through a brand, that is something wondrous and valuable. And again, it's probably the most noble part of capitalism is that we can help each other through difficult times. All right. So now I'm sure you have lots of examples in your head of really effective uses of nostalgia anchoring. So I'm curious, I had a minute to think about it, and I came up with those two. But what you know, What are you seeing that other founders, especially on the earlier side, could take inspiration from? Yeah, there's a great brand called True Tone Light Bulbs.

22:47And if you've never seen True Tone, they are literally creating LED-based Christmas bulbs and lighting that looks like the bulbs from the 40s and 50s. They're, I mean, and they are unabashedly, like their whole business is nostalgia, right? Yeah. But everything about them, from the packaging they ship you to, to the notes they leave in there, to the visuals of the product, are incredible. And, you know, it's this very mid-century modern. And again, that's very design. That's the product itself. And that's very much. I'm looking at their website right now, by the way. So it says, for superior LED Christmas bulbs that look just like vintage incandescents.

23:25So they are taking new technology and they are replicating the experience of what people would remember from their childhood. Yeah. But I think, look, if you're a web designer or an aesthetician or, I don't know, a life coach, there are ways you can go and look at the design of the 60s. Instead of something looking very technical and very data-oriented, look at the warm sort of mascots and the sort of old, you know, like the original Culligan Man from the commercials or whatever. They have a little cartoon character. So you can create these things. You know, I know everyone's moving away from business cards, but I know some people have been very effective at bringing back business cards because it feels differently when you're meeting someone.

24:11Because not everyone wants to have you in their phone permanently, right? That's always my pushback to the modern business card replacement. No, you can just put it on this little code, and then suddenly I'm in your phone. But it's like, what if I just want to, I don't want you in my phone, in my contacts. I just want a business card if I want to use it. So I'm very pro-business card. You know what? That's funny. I made myself business cards recently because I was giving a talk in Dubai and my agent said that the Middle East still runs on business cards. So bring business cards. People want to come up to you afterwards.

24:50And I said, all right. So I decided to not make a traditional looking business card, which we can all picture, right? There's like a logo on the top left, and then there's just this kind of stacked small information. But I thought instead, why don't we use the form of the card? So that very familiar size and shape. Some people play with the size and shape, but I actually find that to be annoying because it just becomes hard to, it's like easy to lose or you don't know what it is. And so I said, let's keep the size and shape, but just do something totally different with it. So my business card, it says very large across the top horizontally.

25:26horizontally, it says, Hey, great to meet you, because we met like I'm handing it to you. And then, and then underneath that, I made like a little grid with some information, you know, how to reach me by by email, how to reach me on social or something. And then I think at the end, it says something like, should we connect on LinkedIn? Absolutely, or something. It's just like kind of fun. And it's it functions as a business card, but it doesn't look and it isn't designed in any way like a business card. And I like that kind of thing that I don't have language for, but where you work within the familiar confines of something, but then do something totally new with it.

26:06Oh, yes. No, and I think that's for certain entrepreneurs, where nostalgia anchoring as a tool can come in handy, because it's not about necessarily just, oh, I'm going to do things exactly the way they did in 1985. Or I'm going to design my logo to look like it's from Stranger Things or something, right? Like, I'm going to do something that takes that form and even that function to a point, but re-delivers it in a modern way. And, you know, look, that can mean a lot of different things, you know, depending on your exact circumstance. But it is one of those things I have always said, you know, sometimes, in my experience studying entrepreneurs, studying brands, studying products, sometimes the product does not need to change at all.

26:54Sometimes it's just the delivery system. Yes. And nostalgia anchoring can tweak your delivery system in a way that can change everything. I've always said, you know, when Walt Disney was designing Disneyland, the first Disneyland in the 50s, you know, he created Main Street USA, not because he thought, oh, this will be a provincial neat little way to experience a nostalgic way. That was literally his childhood. That's the way America looked in his childhood. So he was literally, Walt Disney was around today, he'd be creating, Main Street would look like it was 2001 or 1999 or, you know, it's like the Main Street.

27:32And yet what's funny about that is it's like nostalgia has folded in on itself multiple times because now five generations of people visiting the park are now nostalgic for that Main Street USA because it's now part of their childhood in the function of that specific park. But for him, it was just straight nostalgia. Yeah. And then people become nostalgic for a thing that may not have ever existed in the first place and certainly didn't exist in their own time. Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of a conversation I was just having recently with a friend in the fitness space. And she was observing the shifts that have taken place and what was trending and then what has lost favor in fitness, these studios that popped up just for boxing, just for cycling and so on.