Super Bowl marketing lessons for CMOs with Dhani Jones

12:52Question Everything Hosts:And I think in a similar fashion in the boardroom, much like the locker room during the halftime, you have to decide whether you want to believe it or not. People always say, you know, like God will keep throwing all these different things at you. It's not like he doesn't care about you. He's sending these messages to you. You got to decide whether you want to take the boat because you're sitting on top of the house and you swear God is coming to you know to he'll save you right get in the boat get in the boat right most brands most people don't get into the boat most brands most people they ignore what people are saying now i will say this sometimes you'll be right yeah and that's fair just as well but don't be upset if things don't go the right way and those that have known like and trusted you gave you the advice and you decide not to take it.

13:46Dhani Jones:Yeah. We say here all the time, feedback is a gift. Kelly Leonard, he was on the show. He's the creative director over at second city. He worked with Tina Fey, Steve Carell. They have a running philosophy that feedback is a gift and without it improv dies basically.

14:02Question Everything Hosts:And now you can also take those gifts and just throw it in the recycling bin.

14:05Dhani Jones:That's right.

14:06Question Everything Hosts:But you know, at least, at least receive the gift, receive the gift and give it

14:10Dhani Jones:like a gift. Right. Right. Yeah. If the intentions are good on both sides, it can be life changing. so with the story of your dad like what happened did you take it to heart did you make changes or

14:20Question Everything Hosts:was it like no i don't believe that made changes yeah refocused ended up at the greatest university in the world and you know the rest is history i might do that with my daughters i gotta figure out where i'm gonna take them but i like that idea hey uh with my dad it was like 3 30 in the morning so i was really tired and that was key that's probably key yeah oh yeah okay dad whatever Yeah, yeah. Keep talking.

14:44Dhani Jones:Yeah, okay. I like that. I mean, my 10-year-old will say to me, Mom, can you give me feedback on that? And I'm like, I love it so much. I don't think at that young age you're really looking for it.

14:53Question Everything Hosts:Your child asks you for feedback?

14:54Dhani Jones:Yeah, yeah. Wow. I mean, it's been a learned skill.

14:58Question Everything Hosts:You know what my kids look at me and say?

15:01Dhani Jones:Six, seven. Six, seven. All right, let's go back to the board.

15:04Question Everything Hosts:Might as well go to the best one, number one.

15:07Dhani Jones:Number one. All right, so you started two creative agencies. these tell us what drew you to the advertising and creative space after the nfl there's a couple

15:18Question Everything Hosts:different reasons i was drawn to advertising and creative i think on one side it was it still is it's been sort of like a passion of of mine i've never really seen straight lines you know there's

15:36Dhani Jones:no straight lines in nature i mean i'm trying to think of one and there's no straight lines in

15:40Question Everything Hosts:nature none i believe you it's actually exhausting to be around straight edges straight lines there's none trees rocks sea sand sky clouds leaves pick them there's no straight lines right so inherently even if you think about your children the young age what do they all want to be they all want to be artists we refine and define and sculpt our kids and our people to be these straight lines yeah like creativity is really at the core of who we are as people as individuals as collectives as a society as a community and so as an athlete we're kind of forced into this bucket of just being a player too when for me stripping away that space of like what box i'm supposed to go into was sort of my creative expression of playing the game and to be able to realize that in a business and help other marketers, help other influencers, help other brands and people realize and see outside of the space.

16:57Question Everything Hosts:That's just a great and wonderful place for me to find flexibility even in the world and the game of which I play. So that's why creative was and is and has always been sort of a piece of who I am.

17:14Dhani Jones:I mean, I even loved hearing that you wanted to be an art major in some capacity in college.

17:20Question Everything Hosts:Well, I did art in college, too. I mean, my final year project in my major is called self-representation. My final project, I did a happening. And happening, I basically had my head coach. I had most of my teachers. I had some administrators from the school. I had those that were in heads. I don't know. Was Damon in that? No. Maybe he was. There was a lot of people in the school that were all a part of it. My parents were in it. I mean, it was crazy. But my happening in my play was sort of a creative expression of how my brain works. And so there was stuff happening on the stage and in the audience and in the back room and up in the balcony.

18:03Question Everything Hosts:I mean there was stuff happening all over the place and you know it's interesting to this day some of the people that were in that room and where they are what they're doing amazing like phenomenal I'm just like I mean it's more of a testament to the University of Michigan more so than anything else but just like amazing concentration of talent in that in that one room But I also, you know, I just also look upon, I also look upon that moment of creativity as just who I am. And from that senior project to being able to be the co-founder of creative agencies is just, I think it's just like, I mean, even though it may not have seemed like a natural progression to me in real time, you know, by divine appointment, it occurred.

18:57Dhani Jones:I mean, and I love I mean, obviously, I work with Jeff Warman. He's one of the partners here. And you and Jeff were partners in Proclamation, one of your agencies. And I love how you let you translated some of your football relationships into advertising. I know Jeff would be like, yeah, I'm up at Under Armour. and you worked with the Muhammad Ali Foundation and Livestrong and like really, really incredible, purpose-driven, meaningful work you guys were doing. I think that's really cool.

19:23Question Everything Hosts:And to be honest, it was really at the edge of what people, you know, before proclamation, this is one of my challenges in life. I'm oftentimes early. Yeah. That's the problem. now some would say it's a gift but some would say it's a gift but sometimes if you're early and you're right you're still wrong but Tom's Shoes Bomba Socks Bowtie Cause you know you can go down the line in terms of so many of these different brands that have a certain level of cause behind it and they were at a sort of a unique turning point when brands started to recognize that people actually were starting to develop a certain level of consciousness around what products actually were i mean what's amazing is like ben and jerry's never talked about their cause right okay patagonia never talked about their cause right now maybe there was a stigma associated with the cause and it was more just like we just came to work and if you talked about it people would just like shut you down because they just wanted to hear what the product is but then we kind of came through this phase of which proclamation was was a part of where we started talking about the value of the brand and the consumer and the relationship between that person and whatever that might be.

21:03Question Everything Hosts:I mean, even now, you know, we're thinking about, okay, what is the environmental impact of such and such? You know, how does it affect us health-wise with such and such, right? Whether you're talking about a vitamin company, whether you're talking about a car company, whether you're talking about a food company, whether you're talking about an electronics company. I mean, do you remember when, I don't know if people probably remember, it but remember when headphones got shut down for talking about like radiation now we all have headphones we don't even talk you know what i mean it's like crazy right so you know maybe maybe that moment helped refine and define the product so that it didn't have so much an impact on your health and now the headphones that we use now are that much better right so there is a positive there's a there's a there's a positive interaction between understanding the real value of what you're creating and its relationship between you and whether it be the environment or whatever because the most important thing is to inform the audience and to inform the consumer about what they're buying into.

22:27Question Everything Hosts:And as a marketer, that's what you want. You buy this ice cream, not only because it tastes good, but also because of what it represents. You buy this piece of clothing, not only because of, you know, where it came from and you want to support that, but also how it makes you feel. You buy these pair of shoes, you buy this watch, you buy this piece of jewelry, you buy this hair product, you buy whatever, You buy this bedding, you buy this bed because not only is it going to give you great night's rest, but you know that maybe somebody else got another mattress too. Right. So we were at that critical point in time.

23:01Question Everything Hosts:And I and I think we were early. But even now, as I see through curiosity and as I see through not only agencies, but also see through brands, people are not afraid anymore to kind of talk about the things that they're passionate about. the reason why they created the business because at the core of it all it's about a human centric story telling opportunity that's how you get committed consumers to stick with your product for the lifetime

23:29Dhani Jones:that's how you make it through the halftime that's right okay we have a little halftime report here that we've got to do

23:39Question Everything Hosts:what is this

23:40Dhani Jones:we've got a guest who has flown in all the way from LA who has been a guest on this show. And I hear maybe, speaking of Michigan, you went to school with him. Damien Journey is in the house, and he's got a question for you.

23:54Question Everything Hosts:All right.

23:55Dhani Jones:All right. Are we going to have a mic? Yeah, let's go. Okay, awesome, awesome, awesome.

23:59Question Everything Hosts:I love these setups. I love these setups. Go blue. Go blue. Good to see you, Dahani. It's a halftime show,

24:08Dhani Jones:so I came to ask you some questions. This guy and I go back, I don't know, almost 30 years.

24:15Question Everything Hosts:Oh, man.

24:15Dhani Jones:He was a big man on campus. I was a little guy just trying to get through the great University of Michigan. Wow. And you started an organization, if you recall, that led to our introduction. Tell us about Heads.

24:31Question Everything Hosts:Man, this is hilarious. So I was, some people know I wanted to become a pediatric neuroplastic surgeon. I wanted to become an artist I knew I couldn't become an artist but I thought there was something really amazing about how one would take care of young kids when they were conjoined as young people and Dr. Ben Carson wrote this book called Gifted Hands which is an interesting other intersection because of Michigan

25:03Dhani Jones:totally absolutely from Detroit but his nephew

25:08Question Everything Hosts:was in school with us absolutely which is crazy and he was in heads exactly right so i wanted to become this pediatric neuroplastic surgeon you know i went to go see him speak you know he spoke at eastern michigan university and i just remember him talking illustrating how the neurosynaptic neurological or neurosynaptic fibers allow your you know your hands to communicate you've touched something and I just remember this whole moment, and I just was thinking about how people, through connectivity and through touch and through interaction, oftentimes don't get those moments to really spend in deep thought and consideration with one another.

25:54Question Everything Hosts:And so after hearing him speak, I called up a couple folks on Michigan's campus. I was like, you know what? the black male experience on Michigan's campus is about as separated as one could be. That's right. All right. I'm in East Quad. Sure, I got a couple of brothers that are in East Quad. You know, North Campus, engineers, right? You know, West Quad, South Quad. You know, people are over, Markley in different places. And, you know, you see people in the fall. and then wintertime is cold outside okay okay keep it moving january it was cold february it's cold march is cold the first day of spring whoo everybody's out and then everybody and then everybody scatters right because everybody's trying to find their space yeah and so heads was a great opportunity for all of us to come together and it was just really built around the principle of that neurosynaptic interaction black men being able to have conversations with one another to be able to experience the university of michigan atmosphere together by not being a part but discussing books and by having high level discussions about the challenges that we faced on campus and you know it's interesting even to this day it still exists it's like one largest black male organizations on campus and people are still having conversations every monday night see we're like hanging out and that's how that's how heads came to exist and how it ultimately led to our connection but then so many other of our friends on michigan's campus

27:38Dhani Jones:exactly it's interesting head stands for here earning a destiny with honesty eagerness and determination of self that's right and almost 30 years later i remember that we didn't know each other you were a big time athlete i was an engineer stuck on north campus but i helped to i was running or helping to run the national society of black engineers wow and so through nesb nesb which is the largest student-run organization in the country and you got connected to me somehow and said hey you guys have a structure around your bylaws and constitution you built something that's lasted for at that time uh 25 years how do we institutionalize something like heads It's what can you bring to the table to help us learn?

28:21Dhani Jones:And so it was the first time I ever felt like a consultant. I was like, I'm consulting with the Honey Jones about building a thing on campus that can last for some time.

28:29Question Everything Hosts:But we knew it wasn't for me and your organization. It wasn't for you, but it was for the collective. Exactly. And for those behind us. Yeah. I mean, it's like 25 years before that, even 25 years up until now. And heads being around for almost 25 years. It's just amazing the duration and the legacy and the discussions.

28:51Dhani Jones:Well, you know, you played so many games. You played first halves. You played second halves. You played overtimes. Both of the great University of Michigan and the Bengals and other cool places. But rarely have you been a part of a halftime show. And I just want to say thank you that I'm happy to be your first halftime show. And I'll turn the mic back over to the main event. Thanks, brother. Good to see you. That's awesome. All right. Let's go back to the board. Where do you want to go?

29:17Question Everything Hosts:Uh, let's go to 11.

29:19Dhani Jones:11. All right. So I was told that you were arrested in Miami for dancing in the street.

29:28Question Everything Hosts:No, I was detained. I was just detained. Did you actually go to jail?

29:33Dhani Jones:Just detained. All right.

29:34Question Everything Hosts:I was just detained.

29:35Dhani Jones:The copywriter in Jeff said arrested. Um, so my take on this, you're obviously down to take some risks. Uh, has there been a risk in your life after you defend yourself clearly? that's paid off wow I mean in my mind you were handcuffed and taken to the Miami prison but

29:57Question Everything Hosts:oh wow thank god for the internet or else maybe we'd forget some things

30:07Question Everything Hosts:risks what is life without risk it's just hanging around in a padded room with socks and t-shirt with no windows.

30:20Dhani Jones:Boring.

30:21Question Everything Hosts:Boring. That's not life, right? Everything is a risk. Every moment is a risk. Every time you drive, fly, talk, every time you open your mouth, it's a risk. Every discussion you have, every dinner that you have, every idea that you put out there, every idea that you don't put out there, everything is a risk. all the children that you have all the loves that you have and all the loves that you lost it's it's all a risk I mean life is but a risk so I would say that you know we're surrounded by it and if you if you don't take them then you really haven't lived so I can outline a dozen of risks that I've taken both on and off the field and businesses that I've you know put capital with or not and money that I've made or money that I've lost, but they're all essentially worth it because they sort of frame and contextualize the moment of which I sit.

31:17Question Everything Hosts:And you're reminded every day about the things that you've done, but also more importantly, the things you haven't done.

31:24Dhani Jones:What do you say to a CMO who's afraid to take a risk?

31:27Question Everything Hosts:You need to get a new job. Any CMO that won't take a risk, I mean, you might as well be at a 150-year-old brand that hasn't done anything different so i mean that's fine uh you just might be okay making white sheets of paper but you're really not going to be remembered for anything because you never took a chance i mean even parchment has been innovated upon okay right so like blue lines red lines you know little flakes of like pulp from you know poplar trees versus pine trees okay you You can take chances even in a boring business, just as much you can take chances in a vitamin company as much you can take in a watch company or CPG.

32:14Question Everything Hosts:But it doesn't matter. If you don't have the ability to take a chance as a CMO, then you're really not a marketer. Marketers take chances. Marketers see something from a different perspective that they believe is needed. otherwise they just might as well just throw the job title away you know like if you're marketing a company you're doing the same thing that you're not really a marketer you're just a placeholder yeah right you're a chief placeholder operator okay nothing if you're a cmo and you're marketing you got to figure out what your market is and if you already have that market sure hold onto that market go get new market share as a as a stockholder in a business i don't want someone

33:02Dhani Jones:that's just all of a sudden just like okay with status quo yeah you can also say well i don't

33:07Question Everything Hosts:want to take that risk well that's just about as banal as that white sheet of paper that you're

33:15Dhani Jones:scribbling on right now taking these notes great advice just saying just saying 41 yeah

33:21Question Everything Hosts:all right all right let's go back to the board okay how about number seven how about nine nine

33:29Dhani Jones:well that's my favorite number all right so you played oh this is funny you've played with him you've played against him what can you tell us anything that we don't know about tom brady

33:38Question Everything Hosts:i mean his whole life is public there's nothing you don't know about the guy i i will tell you one thing about tom brady but also as it relates to me which is interesting no actually no that's not true um let's see one thing people don't know about tom brady you know i i i would reframe it and say one thing that probably people don't realize about tom brady tom brady is as competitive as he seems tom brady no matter how high he gets he's still got a chip on his shoulder and he feels as though he's not that high. He's always working on himself. He's always pushing himself. He's always taking the feedback from those that are around him.

34:28Question Everything Hosts:He's always investing in himself. He's always looking to find ways of being uncomfortable as to sort of developing a better comfort in where he would like to be, even though he's never comfortable in where he is because he's always trying to figure out how to become better and get himself out of that uncomfortableness into the comfort, right? So he's always working. And I think when people reach a certain level of superstardom or even you could talk about a brand reaching a certain level of superstardom. And I remember Tom and I's coach, Lloyd Carr. And Coach Carr would always talk about the story about Wally Pip.

35:14Question Everything Hosts:Wally Pip was a baseball player. And Wally Pip, you know, I forgot. I'm trying to remember who the baseball player is that ultimately took his job because Wally Pip was just feeling too good about himself, right? Who was it? Who's Wally? Someone look it up. Right? Somebody. Our fact checker. Lou Gehrig. I think it's Lou Gehrig. I think it's Lou Gehrig. Right? So like Wally Pip just got complacent. Got complacent. Right? Got comfortable. And then Wally Pip got his job taken. Right? So think about all the different people, situations where you feel comfortable.

35:58Dhani Jones:Yeah.

35:58Question Everything Hosts:You know, you can even quote from like Wakanda. Right. Y 'all real comfortable up there on your chairs, you know, like feeling good about yourself. Right. And so Tom is a kind of guy that never really wants to feel comfortable. So he's always pushing himself and then pressing the ceiling and pushing the limits and going to the outer edges to keep, you know, by the way, I said that while we're growing, we need to be able to find our edges. doesn't mean that the edges are finite doesn't mean those edges are 90 degrees doesn't mean those edges are shaped down or shaped up right imagine if the edge is shaped up you can sort of keep climbing you might find yourself slipping back and then you might go over the edge and there might be more edge because that edge might be rippled right so there's a lot of different ways that people look at edges they might say well edge is just a box i saw this um discussion about how an ant or a spider or something like that you can draw a circle around it with a black marker have you seen this no and they won't go outside the lines even though it's on a piece of paper even though the piece of paper is on a table and even that table doesn't have any legs it's just on the ground you know on the ground is think about it

37:18Dhani Jones:yeah right so we create our own same thing in marketing we create our own edges yeah yeah and

37:24Question Everything Hosts:sometimes people put a circle around it. As a marketer, your job is to remove the circle, to remove the paper, remove the table and make it infinite.

37:34Dhani Jones:Yeah. I love the thought too about not getting too comfortable. I mean, we work with a lot of challenger brands. That's kind of our sweet spot. And we talk a lot about waking the sleeping giants because I do think a lot of brands can get really comfortable having sat at that number one spot for so long. They don't, they feel like they don't have to innovate. They don't have to do anything differently because they've been sitting there forever.

37:55Question Everything Hosts:Go to the S &P. Go to the NASDAQ. Go to the Dow, and I'll show you the businesses over the last 30 years who got comfortable and who died.

38:04Dhani Jones:That's right. That's right. All right. I'm going to call an audible. We're going to do a little overtime question, if you will. I'm going to pick one if you're cool.

38:15Question Everything Hosts:We're not going for a tie, are we?

38:17Dhani Jones:We're not going for a tie. No. This is for the win. Okay, go. All right. All right. Number seven. All right, so you know the Super Bowl is the, I would say, like the pinnacle of advertising, right? Advertising agencies really bring their best work forward during the Super Bowl. So I'm curious, one, do you watch Super Bowl ads? And then two, what's your advice to brands and agencies on what makes a Super Bowl ad great?

38:44Question Everything Hosts:That's a tough question. Because you're on a stage of which billions of people are much like these cameras, just evaluating every single pixel.

38:56Dhani Jones:Every word.

38:57Question Everything Hosts:They're not just examining one eye. They're looking at your entire facial structures and hair and earrings. They're looking at my shirt. They're looking at my glasses. They're looking at everything. So it is the single solitary moment of which you can make or break your business. Period. That's the Super Bowl ad. It is one of the greatest opportunities to make a mark or to be marked off. You know, it's interesting over the last couple of years, and I watch the Super Bowl every year. I watch the ads before they come out. and I love conversing with my friends about ones that are really good and ones that are not.

39:46Question Everything Hosts:But it's a place to really make a statement. And I wonder in this day and age when people have a short memory how long people do recall certain things and if that mark is dry erase or if it's actually permanent. but if you have an opportunity and you have a budget to do so you better get the best agency to just come up with some amazing um copy that people will remember for their lifetime yeah is

40:22Dhani Jones:there one that like has stuck with you for a long time i don't know if there's one in particular that

40:27Question Everything Hosts:stuck with me i can't remember which car company did one maybe with buzz aldrin and he was driving I think that was amazing. I tend to like the ones that really allow me to recall something. I think there was maybe a toothpaste company that did something about water. I think that was really, really beautifully done. There was another father-daughter or mother-daughter competition. I just like the ones that tug on the heartstrings. I mean, who doesn't like the horses? okay we all we all love the horses one right what about the frogs i mean that's one of the most one of the most iconic commercials um i don't even think i was old enough to drink when it came out yeah i mean there's just there's just so many and then there's ones that you're like why did

41:21Dhani Jones:you even do that that's just such a waste of time i agree i watch all the super bowl ads i watch the

41:27Question Everything Hosts:ones that are just buying time and streaming ones that are buying time and broadcast and ones that are just sort of taking advantage of the moment and i think that as a brand first you have to decide whether you want to take advantage of that moment who and how you're going to live up to the moment and who and how and what you're going to do to really capitalize on the moment and to be honest some brands i don't think they're thinking about capitalization they're just thinking about making a moment that people will not forget. My favorite halftime commercial is not a commercial. It was when Prince sang Purple Rain, and it was raining.

42:11Question Everything Hosts:That's my favorite, hands down. And in my book, that's one of the greatest performances ever. So you have to give some credence to good luck and good fortune and good timing. But also give deference to those that have had amazing experiences that just want to be able to express themselves. Because in truth, as humans, we'll believe you.

42:43Dhani Jones:Well, speaking of great performances, this was a great performance. Did you have fun? Great time. All right. So we always end our podcast with a little this or that. Are you game?

42:54Question Everything Hosts:Game.

42:55Dhani Jones:Okay. So the first thing that comes to mind, don't overthink it. So I just say this or that. You're going to say six, seven. Okay, ready? Here we go. Football or Lucha Libre?

43:07Question Everything Hosts:Football.

43:08Dhani Jones:Football.

43:09Question Everything Hosts:Even though I'd love to own Lucha Libre.

43:12Dhani Jones:All right, let's go. Investing or advising?

43:17Question Everything Hosts:Golly, investing.

43:18Dhani Jones:Playing or commentating?

43:20Question Everything Hosts:Playing.

43:22Dhani Jones:Okay, a self-tie or a pre-tied bow tie?

43:25Question Everything Hosts:Come on. It's not going to fucking get a question.

43:28Dhani Jones:Self-tie?

43:29Question Everything Hosts:Self-tie.

43:30Dhani Jones:Always self-tie. All right. Jeff Warman or Courtney Frank?

43:34Question Everything Hosts:Oh, without Courtney, there would be no Jeff.

43:37Dhani Jones:That is so true.

43:38Question Everything Hosts:Courtney. Oh, we love Courtney.

43:41Dhani Jones:All right. Tahani tackles the globe or a ton of cash?

43:47Question Everything Hosts:Tackles the globe.

43:48Dhani Jones:Tackles the globe. All right, my friend. This was amazing. Thank you. Thanks for coming on the show.

43:53Question Everything Hosts:I appreciate it.

43:54Dhani Jones:All right. I small it off.