Spice Kitchen: Turning a Passion into a Paycheque

0:00Sanjay: I'm really proud that I'm reworking. We've created a culture of conversation. We've been lucky enough to get insights from some of the most interesting and exciting people in the world of business. And deepening the conversation with our bonus episodes where I've been able to talk directly with you guys, answering your questions and helping you succeed on your own terms. So I'm really excited that we've partnered with Tesco Mobile for Business to take the conversation even further. Tesco Mobile's flexible business plans support businesses as they grow. It's not just the great prices. The Help Hub is a genuinely great resource for entrepreneurs too.

0:35Sanjay: It's thanks to Tesco Mobile for Business that we're able to take our bonus episodes even deeper and bring business owners into the studio for a conversation about the highs and lows of pursuing their passions. People who have made success out of the things that matter to them. For our first episode, I'm joined by Shashi and Sanjay from The Spice Kitchen.

1:01Sanjay: Shashi and Sanjay, thank you so much for coming. Listen, everyone who knows me knows that I love food. So the second I had the opportunity to talk about the Spice Kitchen, this was something that was so close to my heart. And more so, as you've seen, my mum's on the wall. I love my mum. So seeing your union really meant a lot to me, right? So talk to me, tell us about what the business is and give us an idea of how it started.

1:23Tim Campbell: We had our business for 38 years. I came to this country when I was only 21.

1:28Sanjay: Where did you come from, Mom?

1:29Tim Campbell: From India. So 38 years, I ran a business with my husband. And after 38 years, he decided he wanted to retire. It wasn't my decision at all.

1:42Sanjay: So you didn't want to do it?

1:43Tim Campbell: No, I didn't want to do it, but it was his decision. I went along with it. And because we were in a business, we didn't do much traveling. And we decided we're going to travel, see the world. And that was it. That's what we had decided. So we did a few years of that. And I really got bored because I had been working 38 years, solid, hard work. And it was, I think, Christmas Day, wasn't it? Yeah, 2012. Christmas Day 2012. Christmas Day, I just, the whole family was sitting there. And I said to the whole family, I said, look, I really need a small hobby to keep me occupied. And I want something which will kill my time.

2:31Tim Campbell: So Sanjay came up with this idea. He said, mom, you've always been so passionate about spices and all the knowledge you've got. Why don't you put your masala de ba, which is a spice tin with all the Indian spices in it. If you want to make a curry, everything is in there. So he took a photo of my spice tin, put it online. And on boxing day, we got our first sale. And that is how it all started. Isn't that so?

3:06Shashi: Yeah, I mean, very well explained. But I think the key thing is, which mom really needs to talk about, not me, is that, you know, when mom came when she was 21, she's always told her this story growing up. She was massively homesick. Obviously, she was married to my dad. That's enough to make anyone homesick. But she also had this tin, which was really a big connection to my grandmother and your mum. And I think it's really special for you, isn't it? That tin itself.

3:31Tim Campbell: Yeah. Yes. When I came from India, my mum gave me this spice tin with all the spices in it, which at that time couldn't understand why she was doing that. And I came here and I was so homesick. I missed mom. I missed her food.

3:53Tim Campbell: So I just took the tin out and the memories just came of her food. And I started cooking with that tin. But when I went to the supermarkets, it wasn't anything like what mom had made.

4:08Sanjay: Not like the original.

4:09Tim Campbell: The original spices. The supermarket stuff was quite stale, overproduced. And I couldn't get that authentic flavors. And I started blending my own blends at home. And Sanjay can explain more. Every few weeks, they had to do all the blending and spicing and grinding.

4:32Sanjay: Before we get to that, because I think that's really powerful, because you went from having an empty tin.

4:37Tim Campbell: No, no, no, the spices were.

4:39Sanjay: But once you'd used that, it was empty. Yes. You had to fill it with new spices. Yes. But now you fill tins for other people all around the world. Yes. How does that feel? Because something that was so precious to you is now in the hands of millions of people.

4:53Tim Campbell: I feel so proud that my tin has gone to thousands of people. People are cooking with them and they're sharing, sharing, cooking and trying new flavours, which are really so close. and I feel like my mum's in all those kitchens.

5:15Shashi: And it's amazing actually, because, you know, mum's always talked about the significance of the tin and how it made her feel. And it's a very traditional thing for also a parent, Indian parent to pass these tins on to their children, basically when they move to home. Jamaicans do. Jamaicans do as well, there you go. And obviously mum gave me a tin when I went to uni in Manchester. So for us, and so when mum came on that day saying, what shall I do? For me, it was obvious. It wasn't for anyone else. I was like, mum, this tin, you've got is so significant to you so special why don't we see if we can replicate this and and yeah for that to now become something which is this lasting legacy which obviously mum talks about and for me to be able to bring it with mum to the world I just think it's really special and obviously you can hear it's emotional for us both but you know super emotional for mum as well so

6:03Sanjay: yeah it's incredible so what do you think mum would say now seeing this everywhere what do

6:09Tim Campbell: you think she would say would you be proud i am really proud of that we've achieved what we were there to start off with what would your mom say oh my mom would be i don't think she would ever believe that i have done this uh yes i don't think she'll ever believe it but she would be really proud of me amen are you proud of you yes i'm proud of him as well we're proud of you of course I did what I could do. Yes. And I think because we ran a shop, which was nine to five kind of a thing. But now with social media and all the digital world going online, I didn't have a clue what to do. And when he's taken over and given that next step ahead.

6:59Tim Campbell: So, yes. Commercialized mom's talent space.

7:02Sanjay: So, you've seen this thing, means a huge amount to your mum. You've stuck it on a social media site. And in a day, it sold out. So, what was the thing that said, I think we've got something here?

7:15Shashi: It was a bit more gradual than that, actually. So, we obviously sold one tin online and we put it on eBay and sold it on eBay.

7:21Sanjay: Wait, hold on a second. That's 100 % sales right now. Yeah, that is 100 % sales.

7:25Shashi: And the funny thing was, actually, Tim, we sold that on Boxing Day and obviously had advertised mum's tin of 50 years. We were running around Birmingham between Christmas and New Year trying to find a tin and then writing these little label bags. That's the story for another day. But what was really interesting was because we started online, we obviously very much a hobby business for about three years, actually. But we definitely sold more than we thought. And having sold online, we started getting customers, as you say, from all over the country and some international orders. But there was definitely these tipping points that we saw in the business, which I guess a lot of small businesses see.

7:57Shashi: we did a big food show in 2015 and we sold like more in four days than we did in a year wow and people were like oh my god this is amazing but probably one of the most significant moments was selling online what we didn't realize we didn't really know how people were consuming the products we didn't know whether they're purchasing for themselves or as gifts and when we did the first event people like oh my god this is such a wonderful gift for x and x and x so when i said this to mom i was like mom people are buying these as gifts not for not for themselves so this is kind of where mum did her thing and like basically started making the gift wraps out of saris which mum could talk about um but that's kind of again one of those tipping points and then obviously when we made the product even better which has been kind of the cycle of our business constantly improving yeah then people went a bit more crazy because it's so handmade and when mum elevated that with the sari gift wraps it kind of gave us more of a usp i guess so i can't wait to hear more

8:53Sanjay: about how the salaries got involved, but your background was actually in recruitment. It wasn't actually in the field of selling spices online. So how do we make the shift for that? Because there'll be people listening who will have a passion about something, but have to pay the bills. And you're paying the bill through one skill, but you've seen this with mum and thought, hold on a second, there's something over here.

9:13Shashi: Well, firstly, mum and dad had their own business, right? So growing up, I helped run that. They've always encouraged me to do my own thing. And I think they kind of knew that was probably -

9:22Tim Campbell: He always wanted to be his own boss.

9:25Sanjay: See, mum knows best.

9:26Shashi: Mum knows best anyway. And to be fair, because of that encouragement, it was probably more natural for me and I did a business degree and so on. But actually when I graduated, I went to Manchester, did a business degree. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I'd obviously learned how to do sales through the shop. So I went to get a graduate sales job actually. And the graduate recruitment company said, hey, forget about doing the sales thing, come work for us. So I looked into recruitment and actually decided to go into accountancy recruitment because I'd done six months at PwC, but being a terrible, terrible accountant.

9:56Sanjay: But I thought, planes must be. Careful, my wife's there now.

9:59Shashi: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no disrespect to her. No, great company, just a terrible employee, which is fine, I'm happy with that. But yeah, I did well in recruitment for a few years. So how do we go from candidates to Cuban? How does that work? I don't know, this is crazy. Well, actually, to be fair, I actually ran them parallel. So I ran my recruitment business and Spice Kitchen. And interestingly, in 2016, September, we did our first trade event. So we knew we had to get ready for retail, which we did. Went to our first trade show. It was amazing. And loads of little independent retailers were like, oh my God, we want to stop this product.

10:30Shashi: I walked out and closed the recruitment business the next day, actually.

10:32Sanjay: So how do you, take us into the moment where you're trying to balance both. You've got mum looking over your shoulders, making sure you get everything right and authentically how she's remembered. And you've also got the pull of recruiting candidates and meeting targets, et cetera. How do you balance all that? Because there'll be people who are at that stage before they make a leap with different pools in their time. What did you do to help you in that?

10:55Shashi: It's a good question. I mean, the hustle is real, basically. You know, I was hustling. I think it's actually harder if you're employed because if you're employed and you've got to commit it to that employer three days, five days a week, and then you've got to try and do it. Please mum. Yeah, exactly. It's a lot harder. And target. Yeah, it's a lot harder actually. But having two businesses which I could sort of run in parallel and being self-employed was actually easier. But it was definitely a point whereby I couldn't do both. I couldn't grow Spice Kitchen. I couldn't have nurtured those retailers and gone full in on it and be like, right, this is where I'm going to spend the rest of my years or, you know, 10 years since then unless I closed that recruitment business.

11:34Shashi: And also I couldn't let those clients down as well. I've got a good reputation with them and everything else.

11:38Sanjay: So what were the factors? What was the metric you went through? Because you're quite logical. You're very smart. So what were the factors that you said, I have to meet this before I make the transition?

11:47Shashi: I'm not sure it was that. logical really i think from my side it was all about spice kitchen if spice kitchen i really believed 100 that this has legs and i need to commit to this 100 that was the day i was going to close recruitment and focus on this it had to be that day yeah but until that point to be honest with you i had to run both in parallel yeah and actually the day that i closed my recruitment business i had the biggest telling off ever from my dad he was like you cannot do this do not do that don't call your clients and i did it and he's still annoyed probably about it now so mom what

12:16Sanjay: were you doing when dad's telling him don't close this don't close this i was i was backing it

12:22Shashi: exactly you gotta remember we're alive we're alive he didn't know this i wasn't supposed to get into dad yeah me and mom he ate the same way so that's why it works but my dad

12:33Sanjay: different kettle of fish he wanted to go a different direction no i didn't want i did

12:38Tim Campbell: want him to join the spice okay yeah but i will say do not do that yet okay but she held me back But yes, for a while I held him back. But when we did, I think, the first BBC food show, that is when the things changed for us. Because when we did the first BBC food show, we had sold, say, 100 times a week or 50 times a week. And this was a stall which we got free of charge because the small businesses, upcoming businesses were coming up. So they gave us a free. And we took our stuff and went there. And in a few hours, we have sold all the tins. And I was ringing my husband home. Can you please pack more for tomorrow?

13:23Tim Campbell: Please do this. And he was packing and he brought the family and friends and said, OK, you know, we've got to quickly do this. And the next day, the same thing happened. The third day, and then Sanjay came up and said, said mom this is not your hobby anymore this is a proper sanjay saw the power signs i did yeah

13:45Shashi: i did see the power signs but also it was the conversion because this has 80 000 people right walking through those doors there's loads of food businesses of course there's definitely an appetite for new as well but the just the feedback and people oh my god we love this and they love the small nature and the handmade nature of what we were doing and just we just couldn't quite believe the love we were getting actually and how much and mum had made the saris at this point on the tins and it was just like mum like there's so much love coming in from this group of people who do not know us we've got to replicate this type of thing this was actually the year before we did the trade show so it was a full year from here getting retail ready doing both business in parallel and then when we switched that retail side on and went to that next show I was like hey we've ticked both sides we've got DTC and we've got retail potential still small Let's go for it.

14:35Sanjay: So would you encourage other people who are thinking of starting a business to test things in that way beforehand?

14:40Shashi: Massively. It's all about testing. Very much, mum's philosophy is more than mine even. Start small. Yes.

14:47Tim Campbell: Do not put too much money. Do not invest too much. You never know if it's going to work or not. We started with 110. Sold 110 online and then slowly progressed. And do not put your eggs in one person.

15:01Sanjay: This is the good mantra as we see. That's right. But so many people do, don't they? They risk the whole ranch on everything. And they've got no backing, no evidence, no information to support that decision. But you did.

15:13Shashi: It's the pressure. Because we've always grown Spice Kitchen without any financial pressure because we've got other things to take that over. We've never taken shortcuts. We've not had to compromise. And we could have made decisions that are long-term decisions rather than trying to make quick money, which is never our business anyway. So I think that not having that pressure, and that's what mum's taught me, has been really, really helpful. But then at the same time, we've taken our time, right? So we're the snail, we're the tortoise, not the hare, shall I say. And other people do things differently.

15:41Shashi: But we've slowly bootstrapped, grown steadily, sustainably, rather than try to grow too big, too fast and fail. And then we're like, oh, let's do the next thing.

15:49Sanjay: So how do we go from this bootstrap, small scale, own what we do, to pitching on the television? How do we go, how does that happen? Because that's a big old leap, right? Because as you rightly said, you wanted to own everything. You wanted to be in situ. But then now we're ready to ask for 5 % for a certain amount of money. How do we do that? I'll be honest with you. I have no idea. I don't even know why. I'm still waiting for the answer. Yeah.

16:14Tim Campbell: I wasn't in favor of that. Okay.

16:17Sanjay: Tell us about it, Mum.

16:18Tim Campbell: So I think it was BBC called in. It wasn't we who applied for it. They reached out to you. They reached out.

16:24Sanjay: That's a good compliment. Yeah, it is. Yes.

16:26Tim Campbell: So they, and Sanjay got the call and he said, Mum, we're going on Dragon's Den. And I said, what? I'm not in favor. I'm not giving my percentage to dragons.

16:38Sanjay: This is my business. This is my business. What do they know? What do they know that I don't know?

16:43Shashi: Tell us the truth, Sanjay. That's right. Tell us the truth. I'm putting words in a mouth. I'm lying in now.

16:47Tim Campbell: Oh, my God. And I wasn't in favor, but he convinced me. And I think it was quite tricky. The first folk he got, he thought it was one of his friends. A joke. A joke, naturally. And then they called him again and said, no, no, this is probably BBC and we are from Dragon's Den. And then he took the call and gave me a ring. And I said, no way. I don't like being behind the camera. I don't like even my photograph. I'm not going in front of Dragons. So he just took over and said, mom, you've got to do that.

17:23Shashi: And I gave up and said, OK. And to be fair, I know quite a lot of businesses have been on. And actually, everyone said, you've got to do it. It doesn't really matter only about the investment. it's all about obviously the PR and publicity.

17:35Sanjay: So you had to weigh up all the different options. Exactly, yeah.

17:37Shashi: We weighed up all the different options and actually there was no real downside to it.

17:40Sanjay: Okay.

17:41Shashi: Now we know what we know. It was pretty nervous being in there. We were in there 90 minutes. I mean, you probably know business had been in. It's pretty grilling. And again, yeah, it was a tough day. Mum was chill. I mean, if you watch it, like mum was so relaxed. I just don't know how she was that relaxed because I was having a panic attack literally. You were having kittens. As I was entering that lift, kittens and a half. Oh my God, he was like that. Couldn't even speak.

18:01Tim Campbell: he couldn't even speak he forgot his speech it's so interesting

18:06Sanjay: because you are quite risk averse you don't want to take the big risk you want to do small things small scale not big but you are willing to take the risk but you're the nervous one you're the nervous one

18:17Shashi: and I'm not normally nervous I'm not nervous at all but that day just got to me I don't know what it was I don't know what it was I've never prepped for anything as much in my life I kept on saying to him

18:26Tim Campbell: to calm him down they're only humans they've just got a little bit more money than us and then you know why are you so afraid but he was just

18:35Shashi: yeah I wasn't he was shaking but it was amazing amazing experience we got really good advice I mean kind of it was kind of amazing actually because afterwards I've done some stuff with Theo actually being one of his case that he's been on stage with him and he interviewed me last week and then won some sport with Sarah Davis last week as well she's been on the pod

18:53Sanjay: she's been on the pod and she was amazing and it was like

18:55Shashi: so inspiring hearing it with you I mean why we're sitting here after her big shoes to fill

19:00Sanjay: Not at all. Listen, you've earned the position. I don't think people realise the power of being an alchemist. Having an idea in your head and then making that real for somebody, that's...

19:12Tim Campbell: I still don't believe that.

19:14Sanjay: I don't either, really.

19:16Tim Campbell: We don't believe it.

19:17Sanjay: But it's beautiful because something that means so much to you, so precious to who you are as a human being, your family life, having your children involved in the business, Because that's something really rare that lots of people can't do. If somebody's sitting there with an idea in their head, mum, what would your advice be to them?

19:36Tim Campbell: Just go with your idea and be very positive about it and just do it. Do not hold back because you'll regret it afterwards.

19:48Sanjay: Go with it. And what about working together as a family? Because there's lots of businesses that are anti-being in a family relationship. and there's lots of people who say yes because it's people you can trust. You obviously have done it. What's made it work? First thing is I think we're quite like-minded. Aha. I thought you were going to say we like each other. That's a good start. Yes, that's good. Like-minded.

20:10Tim Campbell: We're very like-minded. So we go along with each other and we sit and discuss our problems. Yes. And I think talking to each other is the main thing. Do not take your personal life with your professional life. When you're in the business, leave the business where they're in. Do not bring your problems at home. And I think, Sanjay, what have you said?

20:33Shashi: We've just said so many things. I mean, firstly, we've grown up in a business environment. I've grown up running a business with mum, so it's kind of natural. It's never felt unnatural. It felt like normal. We are absolute yes people. Me and mum, we're sitting here, we've said yes to every opportunity that's been thrown at us. As mum said, she doesn't even like a picture being taken. and in 2017 we got a call from the hairy bikers from the BBC then.

20:57Sanjay: Wow, yes, God rest his soul.

20:59Shashi: This was the first big thing we'd ever done. It took me four months to get mum to do it. And actually it was at the point where the BBC said, look, we need to know today, otherwise it's yes or no. And my mum is a yes or no day and she said yes, you know what I mean? And we did it and then we've done other stuff. So we're very much yes people, even if it's massively out of our comfort zone. But also operationally we've taken on orders and retailers that were way too big for us. So we were still handwriting labels at one point and packing everything by hand, us. Like we talked about Good Food Show.

21:28Shashi: And even if it took us through the night, like working, you know, with no sleep, we've done it. And we still do silly things like that. I don't know why. Yeah, still be doing it.

21:35Sanjay: There's some amazing retailers, like everywhere. Like you can find you now literally everywhere from the online store to now you're in lots of shops everywhere. You've given me loads in terms of that. What's some of the things that still keep you up at night? What are the things that worry you most about the business?

21:51Tim Campbell: I don't think it worries me at all because I think I do what I'm good at. We keep to our roles. That's, I think, the main thing. What I am good at, I just carry on doing what I am. And I don't interfere in his part. And he doesn't interfere what I do. He just gives me a responsibility. Do this, mom, and I do it. And I don't interfere where, say, social media comes in or digital sort of all that comes in or all the finance.

22:21Sanjay: You're not running the TikTok channel, Mum. You're not running that? No. Why? That surprises me. I'm probably yours. All you, Mum. Well, I'm not either.

22:30Shashi: No.

22:31Tim Campbell: So I think keeping to our roles.

22:33Shashi: Keeping to our roles. And we certainly know kind of, yeah, what our roles are and responsibilities and how to divide them. I mean, for me, I'm doing most of it. As in, Mum's very focused on the product, the quality, the recipes and stuff like that. But for me, everything we do, we're breaking new ground, even today, right? We're doing new manufacturing overseas. We're trying new retailers. We're trying to break the US a little bit. It's tough. And we have no, I have no knowledge of it. So I guess it's about, I've learned over time, it's all about, again, you're kind of the cliche of the network.

23:03Shashi: People who've been there, done it and asking that advice. But also, thankfully, it's taken us a long time. I've got the most amazing team. Like operations, I had to be involved with that, obviously, you know, through the business, but it's not my strength. So to have an amazing operations person, to have a really great marketing team, to have a great sales team, all who are really passionate about the business as well. It's a game changer. We can't grow this, just me and mum, without the team. We can't do what we want to do without them. So I guess making sure you've got a team who are constantly still passionate, you reward them, you look after them, you know, mum cooks for them, all the little things that kind of keeps them in our business is really important.

23:44Shashi: They're getting bigger now, isn't it? They're getting bigger.

23:46Tim Campbell: And I tell you one thing, every time I'm going from Birmingham because I'm in Birmingham, he's in Liverpool. So every time I'm going to, mum, can you bring food for 15, 20 people? And I'm sitting standing there

23:58Shashi: in the kitchen cooking for the whole... I was like, don't come into the unit without food because literally that's all... There'll be uproar. Yeah, there'll be uproar, exactly.

24:05Sanjay: So with your clear demarcation of responsibility and skills, I like the ownership separation. What's the bit that you think makes this business work? Why do you think it is successful?

24:18Shashi: For me, it's all about the product. You know, we've started from a place of passion. You know, you were asking about, should people go with an idea? You should go with an idea if it's something you're really passionate about, in our opinion, because this is from a passion project. We're still, I would say now more passionate about what we do than even the first day in a way because of where we've got to. So I think that's really important.

24:40Tim Campbell: I think keeping the quality is the main thing. so what we started with was grinding roasting spices and then grinding them and then we keep the quality no compromise on the quality the freshness we make everything in small batches and just send it it's not like something you you find it in a supermarket so if i don't know he hasn't brought the blends with him he forgot to bring them if you smell our spices it will be the whole studio will be smelling

25:12Shashi: I've got one in that box

25:13Tim Campbell: actually okay

25:14Sanjay: so quickly because we're coming towards the end I need to hear about the saris tell me about

25:20Tim Campbell: so when we did our BBC food show I just happened to put three or four because we were selling only Indian tins then so I thought Indian tin with the sari goes together and it was also

25:33Shashi: sorry it was also because people we started to hear that people wanted them as gifts basically so I was like mum we need to make them all gifts yes okay

25:40Tim Campbell: So I had just put a few tins with saris on it as a display kind of a thing.

25:46Sanjay: To stand out.

25:47Tim Campbell: To stand out. And everybody who came to buy the tins, can we have that one there? The one which is with the cover on. So that idea didn't come to sell as thing, but it was the public who demanded that.

26:01Sanjay: So you listened to the audience.

26:03Tim Campbell: So we listened to the customer and he came home and said, Mom, we've got to make them as gift items. We need more saris. Yeah, literally. And I'm still doing them. I'm still making all the sewing things. It's still done by me. Still done by you? Yes.

26:16Shashi: Well, she's got teams. I've got teams. You oversee. Yes. So I design them.

26:21Tim Campbell: I design them and then give it to the ladies to do the sewing. And they will come back. Still done by hand. Everything is done by hand.

26:28Shashi: And also on the retailer shelf, something really special and unique for us is even if you've got the Indian spiced in on the shelf of any of your retailers, they've all got different colored saris on. so the customer can actually choose, okay, I want the Indian tin, but then they can go for a red one or a green one. So, and on a retail...

26:43Sanjay: It stands out on a shelf. Exactly.

26:45Shashi: And it's offering this level of handmade nature that's not available in any other product in a shop.

26:50Sanjay: It makes you unique. It makes you unique. So, if there's somebody in their slightly older years who's sitting around, they're bored of doing whatever they want to do, what's the advice that you would say to them that says, it's not too late?

27:02Tim Campbell: It's never too late. I'm still at my age. I'm 75 now.

27:06Sanjay: Wow, stop lying. Stop lying.

27:09Tim Campbell: No, honestly, I'm 75. You look amazing. And I'm still learning. I'm still learning because I have not got the knowledge which he's got. I'm still learning. I'm learning from my grandkids as well. So they're teaching me, Mom, Grandma, use the phone this way. So I don't even know half the things which the youngsters know. So every day is a learning thing for me. And I think people should just do what they're good at and just get on with their...

27:41Sanjay: I love it. Listen, we've come to the end of the thing, but I need you to let the listeners know, where can they find out more information about your products and the brand?

27:50Shashi: Yeah, so we've got our own website, obviously, which is SpiceKitchenUK.com. We're on social as well, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, again, Spice Kitchen UK. And yeah, you'll find us in lots of shops around the country from farm shops. delis gift shops um so yeah selfridges and whole foods um lakeland now as well so yeah and what's the big next thing on on the agenda that'd be telling uh what is the big next thing this is

28:14Sanjay: the big thing there's nothing after this i wish i wish i know you've got bigger plans come on what's

28:19Shashi: the bit what's what's the plans well to be honest with you now we're going into our christmas season so a lot of our products are bought for christmas so this is our big thing is making sure we get all of our products out on time for all of our customers for christmas it's like make or break every year for us. So to be honest with you, it's actual real focus back on making sure all of those products leave in perfect quality.

28:39Sanjay: Wow, listen, well, I'm very grateful that you've given up your time, particularly in the midst of your business and travelling from Birmingham and Liverpool down to the conversation today. It's been amazing. I've just, I can't wait to smell the authentic nature of what you bring. I just love the authentic bond between the two of you. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you. Thank you, team.

28:57Tim Campbell: Thank you.

28:58Shashi: Thank you, man. Amazing, amazing.

29:03Sanjay: big thanks to tesco mobile for partnering with the show if you're getting started on your business journey and you're looking for partners who are legitimately going to have your back check out tesco mobile for business with flexible business deals that are up to 40 cheaper than the big mobile networks a welcome bonus free access to the help hub and a quick sign up. That's easy as pie. Find out more at tescomobile.com forward slash business.