Fed at Jackson Hole: The Message for Crypto | Rekt Vision

25:39This whole IP play, Rekt obviously has been part of that, Pengu. Do you think that has legs as well? Do you think... Because right now we had Kanye West launch a token this week. Everyone lost money. The number of traders on the chain, on pretty much every single chain, but particularly Solana, is down 70-80%. now. It's not a good period. And suddenly everyone's going like, well, maybe we'll go back more trades and amenities. What do you think about that, the business side of stuff coming back? I think if you, I mean, Rekt obviously is just an overall ecosystem that has been around a long time.

26:19But you and OSF have been around a long time and you're extremely present and people, you know, NFT buyers love active founders who are out there pounding on the ground or pounding the panel just making it clear that they are here and they you know and and that they're drawing attention and if you look at the three projects right now that i say are performing you have wrecked you have these aren't just the only three but if you'll get three of them i mean moonbirds is the obvious example because spencer is like a new person new hope new dreams like not what the sky's the limit when you have something new uh and spencer is you know on twitter every day kind of bullposting in like the best possible way with a little bit of mystery.

27:03Like he's doing all the right things for prices to go higher. And then, you know, Luka is a permanent presence right now. And he's just so extremely talented at this game that we are all playing. So I think when you put that all together, you know, in Pengu, you know, you got people outside of crypto tweeting about it. Like it's just becoming much more of like the brand, you know, kind of in a way that apes were in the last cycle. Like I feel like Pengu is starting to reach places outside that I don't know if that gets people we don't know buying it, but it gets people within our community saying, whoa, these guys are actually making a lot of noise.

27:34Like, because there's always money in our community to go around. So like, I think, but that vocal founder effect is so impactful. And no, and also the dream factor, which is what Spencer brings is not just a vocal founder, but a new founder, and then anything's possible. So he kind of has a little bit of that magic that a lot of the other projects had during the last cycle. I agree. I think a lot of that stuff ended up being a bit hollow, didn't it? And then it really bites you. But do you think this time can actually be... Is there like this whole idea of, oh, maybe this IP is valuable on the stock market.

28:13Maybe these companies can get bought. Maybe there's a bigger play here for IP, crypto. You can do anything with crypto now. Is that bit of it... I get the hype bit of it, what you're saying. People are coming in and they're saying the right things and the mystery. And it's like, I remember all of this. This is all the stuff from 2031. But do you actually think there's some substance that this time can be different for NFTs and that sort of stuff can happen? I haven't quite seen that validation yet. I still think we're repeating old patterns more than we're seeing new things defined. Especially with NFTs.

28:49like i mean one of the interesting things about pudgy penguins is like you know the pengu the launch of pengu and the launch the future launch of abstract did more for those nft prices than huge deals with walmart like all my kids have pudgy penguin stuffed animals and my kids know what pudgy penguins are they love it and like during that like blur farming period around that walmart stuff pudgy penguins were like going back and forth between four and six each like no one cared about walmart when i should say no one cared but that's like a very slow drip build when pengu was announced we were looking at like 35 you know like so i haven't seen the validation yet that and that nfts like sustain long-term value on a lot of on the non-hype the non um airdrop kind of narratives i i don't think we're at a point yet in the cycle where we've seen that but maybe it's a non it's a non they don't sustain value in the non crypto landscape maybe we will just have very valuable crypto brands here you know like pengu feels like a very valuable crypto brand if pengu were to do a ton of different things layered to crypto i'm sure it would go quite well as you just said with the abstract right like it's it's kind of like okay they can do an l2 they can do a thing and i think i think that's something that we will may see that some of these brands come back and they, because of this, like you said, this relentless founders, great communication, good community, like they end up, you kind of seen this kind of with the bonk community, right?

30:19Like where they're like, they're kind of involved in everything on Solana and they're probably much more of a crypto native brand than outside of crypto. But whatever they touch, it feels like, okay, they're allowed to do. And you kind of get that it might be a success. Well, how do you think about this? I mean, one thing that I saw at Proof that was a huge liability to us was over time, we had Proof Collective passes. We had Moonbirds. We had oddities. We had all the individual art pieces we dropped. We launched an entirely new project with individual artists. And eventually, there was just too many assets to feed.

30:57And I think I see this at a lot of places. You have NFTs to feed. You have coins to feed. You have kind of the other product-based coins that you feel like you have to feed. And sometimes it just gets to be too much. I mean, I know at REC, you guys have both an NFT and a coin. How do you think about trying to feed everybody and making sure that that doesn't become a problem? You know, that's a really good point. I think one of the main things that NFT companies got wrong was the proliferation of assets rather than maybe the proliferation of businesses. you know like you you wanted to create a new asset to define the business and sometimes sometimes you can just create another business like let's go back to bonk here like bonk has one coin and yet they then created a a launch pad they've created a bonk bot they've created some things in defi some other partnerships they've only really kept the one asset hengu obviously has probably got another asset coming in abstract but but it doesn't feel that and i guess it already had the the little pudgies but i don't know if that was before luca i think it was right before luca that they did the little pudgies that's kind of what they got annoyed about i think in the start but um what rect has done is i think it's kind of just kept to the coin and the nft and for better or for worse the the coin is definitely the thing that seems the thing that's going a bit more broad in terms of its appeal because it's been more tied to maybe the drinks business.

32:28Although obviously there's like the IP has got to play there with the IP. But I think that there is a case there that you can get into other businesses within crypto and not have to dilute the number of holders or the assets. I think that's how I would hope Spence is probably thinking about it too and some of the others. Because I agree with you. When you have like five different floor prices, I remember D-God's had this issue too, but they felt like, oh, we've got to have a different strategy for everything. And then what ends up happening is they try and do it for a bit and then they go, you know, we're just going to have one asset.

33:03Yuga Labs essentially are trying to do that right now. Like they're basically trying to just cut everything and go like, right, that was the wrong move. They even cut punks, which is like very valuable because they've gone like, right, we just need to return to the one asset and then we can do different things, I think with it. And I think that... I try to do it at MemeLand. At MemeLand, I always try to figure out how can we kind of focus things on MemeQuint? Because that is an easier thing as a team for us to communicate. And then the NFTs have gotten token over time. And the team really wants...

33:36Part of the issue is the NFT holders are your most loyal people. The NFT people are the ones who put your brand as their platform, who are your biggest advertisers. They're the ones who are most vocal. They're the ones whose identities are most tied to you. And even though I think fundamentally it's easier to funnel everything into the token, you also want to make sure that your biggest brand advocates, the people who put their identity on the line for you, also are treated well. So it becomes a bit of a, yeah, I think that's one of the big challenges in crypto. That is it. That is it. You have to thread the needle, so to speak, between that.

34:11We have two assets. Sometimes the NFT does better, sometimes the coin does better. recently the coins and better and like it has been slightly disappointing i think for some of the holders of the nft because it's like oh you know we were the we were the originals and some people are just getting involved in this coin now and you you have to think right how can we how can we think about things slightly different how can we make sure that they benefit but i don't think we would proliferate basically from here um yeah i mean i just don't think that that kind of makes sense um it'd be more tying in with some of the other stuff we do like obviously I'm involved with Yeet as well, but we can think about different things to tie in on the business side rather than the asset side.

34:51Do you think, just going back to the meme coin side of stuff, I know you were never really a meme coin guy either, right? That whole thing passed you by, or not passed you by, but you purposely did not want to get involved in it. Are you still of that view or do you think it's not coming back now? Like it's been a pretty horrific period here. And the Yeezy coin this week was kind of, I would say the nail in the coffin, but it definitely didn't make people happy. I think there's a lot of mirror with NFTs, right? Like with NFTs, you started with CryptoPunks, then you got Bored Apes. And it just became clear that JPEGs could make you a ton of money.

35:31So then there became a lot more supply that followed suit. You know, you had these huge rallies and then kind of everyone ended up losing money in almost everything with some exceptions. and that pain from having lost money, like the engine, the adrenaline behind these rallies is people's belief that it could be the next punks, that it could be the next board apes. And when that stops to be something that feels very real, just the rallies aren't as strong. And if the rallies aren't as strong, you just don't get as many buyers, more people that get out of this as quickly as you can. And that was what happened with NFTs.

36:01And I think three years later, we're still kind of feeling that hurt. I mean, even look at Moonbirds, like Moonbirds has been on fire, but it's at 3.6 ETH. You know, it got up to 35 ETH. And even in the bear market of NFTs, I still remember it was at 6 ETH. And we were like, what the fuck? Now it's at 3.5 ETH. So the rallies just don't have the force because there's too much pain that people have felt from losing money by trying to catch these rallies. I think meme coins have the exact same trajectory. Like, obviously, you know, the OGs like Doge or SHIB or other ones like that. But then we got Pepe just a couple years ago that went to$8 billion.

36:35Then you got WIF. And then you had stuff like Bonk that completely blew up in one day. And you had this idea that if you got onto the right meme coin, you could actually make millions of dollars. And tons of supply came out. And the same thing happened with NFTs. People just started losing a ton of money. And as people started losing a ton of money, the pumps became less forceful. You had more people come in and extract. Obviously, you have stuff like Hakua. You have Kanye right now. You have more and more people who came and said they wanted to get there. It kind of reminds people a little bit of the NFT cycle.

37:07So just the overall oxygen behind these rallies is the view I could be the next Pepe. But right now, the oxygen is, holy shit, I lost a ton of money. And then it just loses the energy because none of these assets have fundamental value outside of real cultural takeover. And that's the other thing. Manufactured culture is so much harder than something that happens spontaneously. So Pepe just happened out of nowhere. Nothing had been rallying. And then suddenly Farouk's like, holy shit, my Pepe bag went from 10 million. The market went from 10 to 100. And the next thing you know, it's 6 billion.

37:41And that was just like, no one expected it because you hadn't had a meme coin rally. And you get these spontaneous pumps. That's where the real energy is. And then when you get into the manufactured stage, it just has less ability to take over culture. And I think all those things feel like big headwinds in the meme coin space right now. Yeah, I think there is, it very much mimics the NFT cycle for me. I think you're very right on that. I actually think there will be a time in about a year where a lot of the projects which have sustained communities or some sort of mimetic value will actually come back.

38:19I really do think that. There's been a few coins already this year, which are more like 20, 24 coins that should come back. And we'll see similar sort of moves I've just seen with Rekt and Pengu and Moonbirds even. There'll be people around there. The fact is there's a ton of money in this space. And not only like even in bear markets, there's a lot of money in the space. And right now in a bull market. So people want to find things to believe in. And I think rec has this totally new narrative of the drink business. Like, it's like, holy shit, there is an on the ground business that I'm investing in.

38:50I have a founder who is banging the drum on what he's up to. Like, there will be money for that. It has to feel a little bit different from the areas that people have lost money in. You need something that makes it people think this is actually something totally different. and it's not like muscle memory of losing money. And I think that Rekt has that. Like it has a totally new concept. So it makes sense that that's working because there is enormous amounts of liquidity out there. Like people have been making tons of money in the majors and want to turbocharge that P &L while not triggering their PTSD from losses they had in prior cycles.

39:24I'm going to change track a little bit here and talk about what you said at the start because I know you are a bit, you have like a more professional TradFi style background as well. You obviously speak to a lot of people who are probably, they have their one eye on crypto and the one eye on what they're currently doing. How many of those people are now speaking to about crypto and what are they asking about? Is it just Ether? Are they delving into like some of the DeFi stuff or stable coins? What are you getting asked about? I like these questions because I think the anecdotes are interesting.

40:00I think sometimes as people who are active on X, we blow up holy shit someone like a 70 year old just asked me about solana you know and i think that i think those anecdotes only have limited i agree with that i agree with that um the stuff i hear yeah like my friends in finance asking about ethereum people uh who are worried about excessive money printing and extremely loose u.s government policy like who hated bitcoin talking about bitcoin i had a i did have a 65 year old guy say he bought solana because he was tired of people telling him he should just last night. Really? Yeah, just last night.

40:36I went to a guy I met at a dinner about psychedelics. So take that for what it's worth. But he's a very successful finance guy, though, very successful finance guy. I was not really into psychedelics, but he said he started buying Solana. So you hear it more and more. I think the idea, I'm much more comfortable telling people that they need to own Bitcoin, whereas it used to feel like a contentious thing. Now, I feel like it's something people agree on, even if they're not involved themselves. Like the narrative, I think, is really quite simple that you have a government that really wants Bitcoin to go higher.

41:04You have a government that's about to get extremely loose monetary policy with a new Fed share coming in. You have a president that wants nothing more than for interest rates to be zero. He'll hide inflation if he has to to make it happen. And he'll pick his own Fed chair who will do whatever he says. Like there are a lot of reasons right now. I think that Bitcoin feels like a great asset. So I think like that narrative is getting bigger. No one asking about DeFi. Like I haven't heard a single person outside the space talking about how you make money kind of as an LP on Uniswap or, you know, like, I mean, but DeFi means different things to different people.

41:35I ask these questions quite simply because we've just got, my personal view is that, and I continue to think this, is that crypto Twitter is just kind of looking in the wrong places often. And the people who've really made money over the last couple of years have been TrapFi, they go into Bitcoin. and now Trapfire is getting into ETH. Or just mainstream is getting into these things. We're still dancing around with meme coins often in terms of what you see on crypto Twitter. And you miss the sheer amount of wealth that's been made. The crypto market went to$4 trillion. It's from two-ish earlier this year, at one point earlier this year.

42:19And I feel as if that has left behind a lot of people. So that's why I like to ask, what are the people who are coming in now to crypto wanting to buy? And I do think it will keep going because of this. Because of this, that's the main thing that people are looking at. I think Bitcoin will probably keep going too. I've seen, obviously, XRP gets mentioned. Link, I bought Link over the last few weeks. is like a more of a normie, let's say, or like outside of crypto play. I think people are buying, but I'm definitely going to pay attention to more of to that. Let me put it that way. It does feel as though people who are now peripherally looking at crypto, those are the things that are going to drive.

43:05I don't think they're going to come in and buy any meme coin. It feels like that trade is kind of, it will come back in a year. And NFT, Raul's done a good job of trying to onboard people to the NFT art trade. So maybe we're going to start to see some money flow back into that sort of stuff. But I do still think it's like stick to the majors and it's tough to go wrong. It's just what is the cycle here? What is the fundamental trend? Is it that, you know, I think there was a time where the fundamental trend was that my golf caddy was getting a Robinhood account. And you had all these like 25 to 35 year old men who are like hearing about their friends making money and wanted to get involved in the gambling.

43:44Or whereas the past few years, it feels much more like Donald Trump's talking a lot about Bitcoin. We got David Sachs with a pretty serious role there. Lutnick clearly is a big bag holder and he's making big decisions. Like kind of got to be involved, you know, more and more investment banks building up crypto teams. OK, like when that's the trend, yeah, you do not want to be involved in shit coins. You want to be involved in the stuff that those guys are buying and that are part of these big macro trends. And I think like that's Bitcoin, Ethereum, increasingly Solana. Like and what I wonder about because, you know, is is is is there a time where NFTs start getting that attention again, where the idea of digital art as like a future kind of collectible asset class gets on the radar screen?

44:27And I mean, I've heard numbers that, you know, you had eight figures of dollars kind of in treasury companies that did want to buy punks. and it's just a matter of time. If that's true, do NFTs kind of become a new entrant into that market? But I think it becomes harder to try to go double down on Whiff or on Flog or some of the stuff that is much more niche, much more kind of embedded in crypto culture, aside from the fact that rising tides clearly lift all ships. Yeah. Is there anything else in the chats that you're reading? Because I know you're in a chat with very, very smart traders that they're farming at the moment?

45:04Is it abstract? I don't know if abstract's got quite a lot of interest more recently. Is there anything else you think that people should be looking at? I told you this earlier. This summer, I have not been as deep in the trenches. I've been much less active in Twitter. Stuff I noticed is, yeah, I mean, abstract is a good point. Like abstract just pops up a lot. Like, you know, it feels like, you know, I mean, obviously, I see obese is always an interesting guy to follow because I think there are a few people who have their pulse on how do you make money day in, day out passively? like i feel like polka dot comes up a lot of these guys like they're still in title game for farming um yeah obviously monad right now feels like it has a new resurgence but that's only because of that's only because they recently released their cards mega e is one that a couple guys i'm friends with and who seem to do a good job making money i put big bets on um yeah legendary gains like is a good friend yeah he's done well but that's run a lot of them well he's done well but that hasn't that hasn't like he hasn't got the liquidity yet there right so it's like is this is this mega e thing going to turn into a thing um those are just a few of the things that i'd say i'm about as passive in kind of the trenches as i've been in the past couple years but just being a passive observer those are some of the things that pop up yeah i would agree i think the ones that i see the most are probably mega eth and uh an abstract interestingly both eth adjacent i would say and abstract's the one that really feels like it's it's it's gained some momentum like i see people trading even meme coins now over there and i see people trading nft projects and they've just got quite a lot of momentum um behind various various other things they're doing because of pangu so i think that luca really is a genius like you know and he and when i say genius it's like who has just very special finger on the pulse of what actually drives these markets.

46:55And I think no one gets that better than Luca. No one understands the levers of this market better. No one is better at keeping attention on what he is doing in the way he is at staying consistently relevant over long periods of time. Like he really is fantastic at what he does. And he also hires very good people who can build good products. And I think I think abstract is just over time, it's just grinding higher and higher when it comes to the amount of attention it gets. So yeah, I think he's really kind of a special talent when it comes to the game we're playing here. Yeah, he's one of the few people in crypto that over-promises and manages to deliver, I tend to find.

47:34Do you know what I mean? He definitely backs up the statements that he makes. Normally that's risky. That's a risky move in crypto when you do that sort of stuff. People come for you. You're telling someone who worked for Kevin Rose that. So say no more. yeah exactly that's that's probably what you think will offer too much in crypto it feels like you need a leader who's going to um who's gonna use if they're gonna go that strategy it's it's it's it's bloody risky it is hard because this game is all about hype and you have to be able to deliver hype but then hype over time decays trust if you don't deliver uh so yeah i think like there you have someone who both is incredible at the hype game and is incredible at just continuing to feed big events, big news stories, understanding what's going to make prices move.

48:20And he kind of doesn't. Okay, maybe we'll move to some live questions because we have questions normally from the audience at this stage. If you have any questions, please put them in now. I'm going to be talking through a few of them. We have one from Dan Anderson. When, if at all, do you plan, do you, any of you in the chat, I'm taking profit this cycle, Bitcoin Eve, Sol Sui. Do you look at things like that? Do you think about where levels you would take off your ETH, for example? I own most of my... I bought three Bitcoin in 2013 and haven't sold them since. I'm like, I'm just... I think that this trend...

49:00I guess a time I might do it is if... It's hard not to want to do it with Donald Trump as president. It is. I think he really wants Bitcoin prices to go higher. I think he feels like the people who helped him get where he is are people who want Bitcoin to go higher. And I think he's surrounded by people who believe in it. And I think he really believes in loose monetary policy. And I don't think the dollar's kind of strength is something that matters that much to him. So if we were to get a reverse in those trends, I don't know. I mean, Bitcoin's on such a multi-year bull market. I have a hard time knowing when you'd want to take profits.

49:37And I think that that tugs ETH along with it. So I don't know. Those are my biggest holdings are Bitcoin, Ethan Punk's. And I got no interest right now in kind of thinking about when I want to take the positions off. But I'm a boomer. You know, I'm 43 years old. Yeah, I had taken off some of my Ethan, put it into Bitcoin. And then this week, I basically took that Bitcoin and bought Link with it. So I'm kind of those three on my three because I just feel like I just like them at this stage alongside, obviously. similar to you like you kind of have decent altcoin bags with mean land and i kind of have it with rect and and uh epic and a couple of other things that we do so i never forgot to say amando one thing i want to say when you ask like what are people hyped about is he like i completely forgot that but like the amount of love that yeet is getting right now is is i'd say kind of front of mind for me when i think about my time that's an airdrop that's an airdrop we are sponsoring a lot of i think pretty cool people in the state well the great thing about uh you know being involved in a project which has been pretty successful is you get to then sponsor all of your friends so if you're doing your because you famously used to do daily um daily podcasts like daily summaries which were like incredible i remember for proof i remember you came to me in the early days of it you were like oh can i can you know how is this going to be i was like you know if you can continue to do this for a year i'd be very very very impressed and then i think you It was about a year and you were like, yeah, I'm done doing this.

51:09Here's what happened. I did it for a full year and I would have loved to keep going, but Kevin fired half our team. And that day he came to me. He's like, I just fired half the team and I need you to take on a wider role at the company. And that probably means sunsetting the show. And I was like, all right, well, I'm not going to keep doing the show if the CEO of the company says that this is like that simply running the show is going to get me on the next block. So I had to start thinking about my own longevity at the company. And in the end, it didn't matter because we sold to Yuga three months later.

51:38But I did not stop because I wanted to stop. I stopped because the person who was paying my paycheck told me that he didn't value it. Do it again. I'll get you. I'll sponsor you for sure. That's not that everyone that I like in this space, I'm like, yeah, why not? Let's get out there. But yeah, that's obviously another airdrop I think people are getting more excited to as well. Francisco Munoz. I think I'm saying that right. Can you discuss Bitcoin and Bored Elon? Now, Bitcoin is an abstract meme coin, I'm pretty sure. So I have not seen the price of it today, though somebody did say, whoa, Bitcoin in one of the chats I'm in.

52:16So clearly it's moving quite a lot. I think in general, there is something... Yeah, wow. It's at 20 million. It's called Bitcoin. B-I-G-C-O-I-N. it's probably one of the most popular meme points on abstract. But I'm not going to talk about individual points, particularly not individual meme coins at$20 million. But what I would say is that there are incentives for, obviously, points for doing different things in abstract, and they have expanded it to certain meme coins. So I think you get incentives for either holding meme coins or being one of the early buyers. I'm not sure exactly how the points work, but there's definitely incentives right now for meme coins and abstract.

53:02So it's having this sort of resurgence, let's say, of meme coins just in that one place because abstract is going to have an upcoming TGE at some point, maybe Q4 or Q1 next year. And there's money flowing into abstract right now. So if I were to look for 100x gains, like I really need to turn 100 bucks into 10 ,000 bucks, then I would be looking on abstract meme coins right now. So a big point might be up there. I'm sure you have people in the chat who are involved in your chat who are involved in the abstract meme coins stats. Yeah, I feel like you got to get Tyler on the show for these questions.

53:44Like anything goes to$20 million. He's got to bring in the, can you talk about parentheses, my bag, and parentheses is like a tough question for me as someone who's mainly just in the majors and kind of focus on company level stuff more than the meme coins right now. So it is being discussed in my chat, but when I look at my telegram, I see 587 messages you haven't read, 67. That's just kind of the state I'm in right now in the trenches. And I apologize to you in the audience that I'm not quite as into the trenches right now. No, Tyler did it, by the way, another good follow. I think we're in many similar sort of chats of people to follow.

54:22They're often news-based accounts as well. Okay, final question here is, will we see a meaningful strategic reserve during Trump's term? Personally, I think we kind of already have. But my view, just from the recent comments and actually consistent comments from Besson and the rest of the administration, is that they're not interested in buying Bitcoin. They're looking at basically taking over confiscated Bitcoin or looking at budget neutral ways of owning it, Of which the only real way I can see is partnering with miners. What do you think about all this? I don't know. They must have over$10 billion they have right now in Bitcoin with confiscated amounts.

55:06So is there even a path to get like$50 billion of Bitcoin for the US, you think?

55:16um i i i remember in the early days we were really focused on how much bitcoin the government would buy this whole budget neutral thing doesn't make sense to me because any revenue for the government is like tech is like can pay off the deficit it's not like there to buy bitcoin you know it's like it's like if i pay if i pay you know 20 grand of taxes and you buy bitcoin with it is that budget neutral no it's like that's taking your revenue and putting it into bitcoin as opposed to other things that, you know, because the government's in massive debt that it could go to. So the whole concept of budget neutral to me doesn't make sense because any action that brings in money could go to anything and moving that to Bitcoin is whatever.

55:55But yeah, I don't know. I haven't followed this conversation as much. I think that what you're quoting is stuff that was being said all the way back in like April, from what I remember, when they were discussing what would happen. And I don't know if there's been tons of progress with that yet. I wouldn't, again, I think that pretty much every big player in the government does want Bitcoin to go higher. So I wouldn't be surprised if you start to get some random tailwinds from them, especially if the market gets weak, maybe you have a little bit of a put option there from that. But I think it was clear that if they say they're using taxpayer money to buy Bitcoin, there is a lot of backlash from that.

56:31And our timelines do nothing but love it. But I have a lot of timelines that are not in crypto. And they're saying you're using taxpayer money to buy Bitcoin. And to the majority of people, that feels corrupt. And it feels like you are using money to buy someone who you like or know or are related to his bag. And every now and then, the administration can be sensitive to that. So I think from our perspective, it's just diversification of assets. We own a lot of dollars. We own a lot of gold. You should own some Bitcoin too. But there is a backlash, not just in the liberal wings, but also in a lot of the tech guys who are big into tech and not that big into crypto and who are like, we're very impactful in the rise of Trump.

57:10So it's something that our community doesn't see very much, but I do just because I, you know, I live in a place where there's a lot of wealth and most people don't have Bitcoin and like are forwarding me how corrupt and ridiculous, like when that type of stuff happens. So I think that's just the side that to balance. I think that's very fair. I think I also kind of because I think it will there could be a backlash if that sort of stuff happens I've always thought it'd be politically unfeasible to do like we're going to print money to buy Bitcoin or we're going to use the tariffs to buy Bitcoin like those sort of things have seemed like climb in the sky sort of stuff I don't think it's that bad either like I don't know what happened to us that we want the government to own as much Bitcoin as possible but it's suddenly it just seems kind of funny that like that's like one of the number one aims of crypto here is like, we want governments to own Bitcoin.

58:00It's like, I don't know. At the end of the day, we just want any incremental buyer. That is what everyone is here for. And maybe you get the occasional purist who mined Bitcoin in 2012 and cares about the vision more than the idea of number go up. But I think there is this idea that if Bitcoin replaces gold as an asset that all governments need to own, we got way ahead of that trend. And you can wrap it up in intellectual arguments for why it is something that's great. But I think at the end of the day, that's just like a massive, massive boon for the price. U.S. government buys it. Then EU feels the need to buy it.

58:39Then China feels the need to buy it. And then we were the guys that got in in 2025 when you can still get in at$110 ,000. And I think that that's just like such a dream scenario that people here are going to relentlessly push for it. And right now you have an administration that's actually going to listen. because the Bitcoin lobby has been so incredibly strong in forming the government we have right now. I think that's it then. I think this is a really good conversation. We touched on a lot of different things across macro, NFTs, Bitcoin reserves, who knows it? We'd love to have you back on the show maybe at some point in the next few weeks.

59:15For all listeners, go check out realvision.com forward slash ready, set, connect. This is for the current promotion. You'll be able to see some content between me and OSF as well as brought up Real Vision content there. You can go follow stats at Punk9059 on X. That's where you mainly are. Do you still have a newsletter of any sorts? Right now, I'm just at Punk9059 on X. Even with me being slow, I still probably post like three times a day. I've gone from like 15 times a day to three times a day. Okay, well, we'll definitely have you back on. I'll be back on next week as usual. I think we're going to have another potential guest co-host come in.

1:00:00So we'll see you next Friday, 11 a.m. Eastern, 4.30 p.m. British summertime. Have a great weekend, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. So here we are, Token 2049. It really is one of the most energetic, incredible events. Speakers from all around the world and visitors from every country you can ever imagine all kind of learn something together. something new, this exciting world of crypto and technology. It's where you go and make friends, lifelong friends. And what's so nice is to see people with big smiles on their faces, happy to be here and happy to be together. So hopefully see you next time in Singapore.

1:00:36Real Vision will be there. I look forward to seeing you all.

1:00:45You obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end. But listen, Don't forget to go to realvision.com forward slash join and grab a free membership. It's an incredible community packed with alpha, great investment ideas, and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future. So get started now. Go to realvision.com forward slash join. Have you ever wanted to trade Bitcoin but haven't dared try? With Plus 500 Futures, you can trade crypto without the hassle of opening a wallet. With just a few clicks, you can register and start practicing with their free and unlimited demo.

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