Raoul is BACK: Has the Banana Zone Thesis Been Right? | Rekt Vision

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1:30to be here and happy to be together. So hopefully see you next time in Singapore. Real Vision will be there. I look forward to seeing you all.

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2:19Hello, everyone. We're back for another episode of Rect Vision. As is tradition, We are close to all-time high on some of the major crypto assets, and Raoul has decided to show his face again, which is always nice to see. Makes me feel good inside when you book it in. I always know we're about to head to a new all-time high. How are you doing, Raoul? I'm good. I'm just hanging around at goal, just to take the glory. You are the Rude Van Nistelrooy of market pundits, it feels like. Exactly. Yeah, well, I think the main thing moving today is ETH. ETH is finally hitting 4K, which I don't think it's hitting since December of last year.

3:03I think we've been calling it pretty well on this show, but it's generally been a pretty positive week across a range of different altcoin assets. Bitcoin dominance has kind of gone down a little bit, but it feels as though ETH has been capturing the main bit of attention. How are you feeling about everything here? everything here i know obviously if we've been slightly lagging i've noticed first like the m2 yeah i'm going to show you that chart actually peter i didn't warn you but i was going to show this chart so but you know me by now there's the m2 chart this was out i think julian put this out a couple of days ago um and it's lagging a bit but it has these leaves and lags we shouldn't expect it to completely follow squiggle for squiggle because in which case it's just doing debasement and not network adoption.

3:49But it's this kind of period here where we should be turning up and seeing the acceleration point. Do we play catch up? Most likely. So it feels that, yes, there's been a slight lag. Is there any major structural issue there? No. Also, this is Bitcoin. And as we know, dominance is going down. So dominance changes this somewhat, because what we're going to see is the other assets doing it. Now, if I can show you, let me stop showing this one, just show you the Bitcoin dominance chart as well, just for completeness. There's the Bitcoin dominance chart. It looks to us like it's forming a head and shoulders top pattern, which would break lower.

4:30That would be very typical of this stage in a bull market. And in which case, things like GlobalM2 Bitcoin won't track as well, but the overall space will track it really well, and you'll see the acceleration of assets. So we've had ETH as the main beneficiary, which makes total sense. A, everybody was massively underweight. And B, suddenly the entire world is building on top of ETH rails, which is what I said would happen is like the financial industry is, you know, they'll choose Microsoft over Apple every time so a quick break in your regular programming if you're serious about your future grab my free report called prepare for 2030 i think you've got five years to make as much money as possible and this guide will help you navigate what's coming the link is in the description download it now because that's what they do you don't get fired for building on e so robin hood could they have chosen solana to build on yeah but they chose an e-flare too i don't know because that's what you know as you and i know going to any single investment bank or hedge fund on earth it's all microsoft and i think also weirdly the l2 narrative is like slightly playing in their favor because it's seen as like right we can own we can own a little bit of our own space here um and something that which i just yeah look i think um everyone i think who's been in crypto has some sort of uh respect for eith or was originally in eith and it was really just an impatience trade you know two years two and a half years of underperformance other altcoins catching up particularly the monolithic chains like solana sui um and it's interesting to see that when trap files come in yeah it is it's microsoft excel that they've come in and decided to use and they've liked the um the l2 narrative because they can build you know their own version well they can accrue value themselves and not just a underlying chain which is nice so they feel like they can come in and like right we're going to put our own um you know we can do robin hood chain it's an it's a it's built on top of arbitrage so like clearly they're going to have some sort of benefit there and i can i can see that happening with other institutions which i which is i guess was just a misread that they would immediately go to the monolithic chains but yeah it's um i think we've we've called it actually okay on this show we've been big not haters but we thought it would underperform and then and then when it moved um that first move we kind of called that shift and we've been holding on personally it's getting a little bit frothy it's getting a little bit consensus here again at 4k it definitely feels like if you're in solana you're suddenly in the underdog trade and that wasn't the case for 12 18 months it was just like right you've got to own solana like east east the trade that's underperforming and now i think what it positions some of these old l ones for a very similar trade in my view early next year where where we kind of see an etf come in we probably see a bit more inflows into like a salon etf or maybe even some of the other or l1s and then treasury companies pick up in the same way that they have um for eth uh but when you have people like tom lee going on blue on cnbc and saying 16 16 000 price target coming in for e this is all the stuff that everyone all the eath maxis have been saying for like years but everyone laughed at them and for some reason now it's catching up and everyone's like right well this is like revolutionary technology that no one has ever said these sort of price targets it's like the best marketing uh rebrand i've ever seen for a chain uh it's it's really remarkable to see did you i know you were mainly in like the the solana and suey did i know your eth trades mainly been by nfts which has become a very interesting trade now too it feels like yeah so i know So look, I've never had an issue with ETH.

8:38And yes, it underperforms over periods of time. But it was like, you know, this is the core foundation stone of Web3 is ETH. And everything else kind of builds around it. You know, Bitcoin being a separate beast. So what I had done is we've talked about this before. The second cycle trade where somebody's got Lindy effect and you buy it, which was Solana at the low in 22 is usually the best trade of all because it's kind of been de-risked and then people have the light bulb moment which they're having again with eith right but eith has gone through that lindy effect in the past this was happening to nfts i talked about this for a while nobody understood what the fuck i was talking about um and i'm like this stuff is survive the lindy effects there's a group of collectors who passionately care about x copy people, whoever it may be, Sam Spratt, all of this stuff.

9:27And that this stuff is likely over time, as the wealth in this space, I think it goes from$3 trillion to$100 trillion over the next eight years. That'll be the largest accumulation of wealth in history. And wealth always flows upstream and art is the top of the pile. Even if you go to an art collecting billionaire, they might have five houses. After that, it's hard to manage. But in those houses, they have 10 times the value of the house in art itself right so it has always been a proven store of value and so what we're seeing is as eth goes higher the prices don't adjust down which is what people thought happens what actually happens is wealth creates demand for this stuff so this stuff is ripping um and you know i think the stuff that i started buying in 2024 early 2024 before is up between three and five x in eth terms and then eth is up another you know whatever x depending where you bought the nft so they become this massive multiplier trade and i'm going to show you a chart on this because i put it on x yesterday uh let's have a look yeah because i think at the time it was seen as a pretty risky trade i have to say like the idea of going when you were started saying look if is you've got to go the max risk bit of eath which is like the our nfts punks um these sort of collections i think people were like well eath may never even come back so like going into that stuff seems even like more risky yeah and people like nfts because everyone got burnt in stupid shit nfts last time but really there was signal in all of that that was my point signal was there's some real stuff that's going to have staying power that didn't lose a lot of value.

11:13And the moment people started realizing, if I think about when I bought GigaChad, the Beeple, I think I paid like nine or 10 ETH for it. And now they're trading at 40 or 50. And ETH has gone up 3X since then. I mean, Christ. I mean, that was a trade. But look, the chart I'm showing now is the chart of punks, which best represents the space in dollars. And I've actually got a longer-term version somewhere. Actually, I've got it here. In fact, I'm going to share that as well. I never knew that you could find CryptoPunk price on TradingView until today. And a GMI, we've built a whole model around it.

11:56It was in RV Pro Macro as well. A whole model about how to value this stuff, how liquidity drives it, how it fits into the business cycle, the whole macro overlay. So here is this chart, as you've never seen from anybody. this is the punks chart long-term in dollars. I mean, you'd be buying that all day, right? In dollars, that must be in K, right? In thousands of dollars. Yeah. So we're currently at$200 ,000 floor. I mean, everyone loves a log chart because you can get very, very frothy in terms of price. But yes, I do think that CryptoPunks, this is some, I mean, I am publicly on the timeline looking for a crypto point right now.

12:41I'm looking to deploy into crypto points because this is the first time in two, three months where it isn't just yourself and Benny talking about buying NFTs again. We've seen real money start to pour into these. We've seen millions of dollars sweeping hoodie crypto points. Including treasury vehicles now. This is the main thing. I'm starting to see a lot of you don't know what's coming you know you don't know what's about to come and people that were peripheral or like still were in the space but were collectors are now already starting to deploy again and it feels as though if ETH is going to be let's say ETH is going to go to all time high 5k maybe 6k who knows you can't really do the same things on ETH that you could do on Solana you know there's not a real like trenching meme coin atmosphere because it's too expensive but nfts can be that thing and as you said nfts if anyone remembers 2021 they are veblin goods they attract the most wealthy people as they start to go higher suddenly hoodie crypto punks at 700 000 seems like one of the coolest flexes in crypto again um and that which just wasn't the case you know when when when crypto punks floor was just a third i mean look at this chart that i'm sharing now this is punks in eath now from last year when was that august 24 when we had that correction started the banana zone these things have outperformed three to four x eath and eath was down and eath is three x from there so it has been the trade really of the cycle it might have even outperformed sui and stuff now i'm not even sure but you know people were saying well do do punks and bitcoin trade one for one but punks are so scarce really and considering a bunch of these are locked up in dows and you know yuga have a bunch mickey malka has a bunch there's very few to be able to buy and if you want them, it's a Veblen good.

15:02You're going to pay up for it. Exactly. So I think, and I think punks will lead this and then I think it will be most probably art collections over one of ones. I think you'll see X copy like editions and and grifters and that sort of stuff move. Grifters look really undervalued by the way for 666 by the most iconic artist in the history of Web 3 and they're like less than 20 ETH. that's cheap i i personally think they've i mean we own some to be clear i'm sure you probably own some too but like um yeah that was the other thing i was looking at as well as punks because i was like the unique owners the issue about punk sometimes is because there's there's a lot of very big owners right and when one of them starts to sell it can be like right we're going to be here for three months of somebody trying to get out like 100 punks um grifters it's not like that it's a very uh i think it's a number yesterday i think it's 78 of them are owned by different people i think it's the distribution of any exactly so you suddenly go there like well if it's like that then they can really run so that was the other thing i was looking at but um and it's just interesting that i just feel that this is the time i think people have kind of gotten a bit brain dead with what's been going on solana and you if you start to see some of these things get announced a treasury company one maybe you know bit mine or one of the bigger ones decides to pivot and create another fund or you see specific funds around just this i think it will start to create a bit of fomo and and things will start to me and the people i mean people keep asking me how do i approach it that's actually a harder question you know and i you know obviously if you've got a lot of money by a punk if you're somewhere in the middle by a grifter and if you don't have that much by dick butt and then there's a whole bunch of others there's the as we've talked about the wreck guy the mfers there's a bunch of these kind of larger collections before you start getting into the art stuff, which is a bit more difficult.

16:59But I think people just need some exposure to this because if wealth gets recycled and it goes to all-time highs, this stuff is going to all outperform. Yeah, I see there's three drivers, really. It's the treasury companies. It's the ETH beta play, sort of. These are some of the best beta plays. And then I also see this kind of revival of... the crypto ip play that kind of wrecked and pudgy have really benefited from like having a consumer product business at the same time as this nft brand but you can see people looking at some of these more these older nft brands have been like right like suddenly you can do quite a lot with the token particularly in the us like suddenly it's maybe an attractive equity story like if you announce something like hey we're gonna if you if art if nike had announced they're going to buy artifact today and that was like i reckon that like stock price would have like soared because right now equity story the equity uh story around crypto is very strong so suddenly if you're doing something with crypto you can see a like a a bump in your stock price and i think you'll see some of those those plays come back as well so like you're seeing dead projects suddenly being like well moonbirds have seen this recently there were 10 grand suddenly just put on this sort of play i think you're starting to see artifact actually got rugs the other day and it's rallying because people are expecting it to get bought out and then they do this sort of rebrand into a new token into a an ip play and i think nfts suddenly just have this coming back i don't know if this is for me it's the art the art thing that i'm more focused on than anything And the reason being is, as Punk6529 talked about and I've written about, these are the apex of all tokens.

18:55They're the scarcest, most valuable tokens that will ever exist. People don't understand this yet. This is Fifth Avenue Central Park real estate. This is Mayfair. This is unbuyable stuff. in a world where these economies become vibrant this is apex tokens but block space the apex of all yeah that's i would agree with that uh that totally i think i think they are more risky in in that like you need everything to kind of come together but it feels like it's now doing that right now if you could own some of those if you're in punks if you don't addition uh hot like uh some of these additions they suddenly seem like very good trade the the issue always is because of the illiquidity works on the way up and it also works on the way down you know like if anything ever if any of those bricks that have come together falls apart suddenly it's like oh we can't get out of these yeah i don't you have to have like you have to have a long-term mindset yeah i don't like these as a trading vehicle you can trade some of this stuff it's liquid enough these larger collections to just about do stuff but really this is just by acquiring and holding the most scarce block space of all that's the game and it's not you know for the next six months or you know 12 months that game i think is too hard because you know good luck as you said trying to get rid of you know five one of ones by x copy in a bear market i mean there's no way because nobody's got the money to pay for it yeah suddenly everyone doesn't they don't look so good the art goes down down with the price um what's your what's your view on the rest of the market here because i think we've spent a little bit of time here being like eth is maybe still the trade like if it breaks the all-time high i think that really picks up and i think nfts coming back also makes eth again looks like a bit more like a currency that you're paying for things with and that was nowhere for the last two years what you think about people who are kind of stuck not stuck but like have been in these all l1s or altcoins that have not bypassed that this rally but like haven't really participated in the same way do you think the time is going to come is you think this is the timing thing that we go down the risk spectrum and and bitcoin dominance breaks down from here yeah i do um i've said this for a long time i mean as you know my main bet has been sui for a while and before that was solana those rotations have done well sui still generally outperforming Solana over a longer term basis.

21:30I think the next phase of Bitcoin dominance, we've seen the ETH rotation trade. That's good. The catch up is happening. Okay. Once it gets into kind of mid value versus Bitcoin again, then I think we'll see the rest of the space utterly ignite. And as we know, once you throw in a lot of liquidity into lower free float things, they go up more. And that's how it always plays out. And that's where we are in the cycle. Now, one of the things on the macro side that we look at is the influence of the business cycle on that particular trade. And it's the same trade you and I have grown up with in markets is earnings have to go up for people to go further out the risk curve.

22:11So when the ISM picks up properly, the business cycle picks up, corporates and people earn more. And what we find is, In the bond market, it goes out to junk, then out to emerging market junk, then then out to private credit. We see small caps outperforming big caps in equity markets. We see all of this, and it's the same with the altcoins. The issue is everybody thinks their altcoin should go up. That's the issue. Everyone's like, well, mine hasn't gone up, so therefore this is all wrong. it's like you need to have the right altcoins and i think people mid-curve it they get so involved in the value benefits of their particular token when really there's one simple thing is go on to coin gecko or coin market cap or and look at crypto and we've talked about this it's like i'm sorry but people are going to buy xrp and doge and cadano whether you like it or not because they're cheap in the absolute term of how much you pay for a token.

23:19So people will do that. The alt layer ones that are getting absolute network adoption, Solana, Sui, a few others, great. And then somewhere in the middle, we'll see what happens. But I think the middle part is the harder play. Hey, I've got this DeFi token that could be amazing. That's pretty hard. there's some idiot proof ones which is big layer ones that get adoption go up a lot and they're less risky and um and the moron trade which is always a good one which is just buy the cheapest thing and the top 10 the moron trade i like well look at it in fact i'm going to show you the moron trade now and i'm not saying that these are moronic and people are moronic for owning them I'm talking about when retail come in, what do they look at?

24:08Hold on. What do I get? Okay, I'm just going to share this.

24:15Okay, so you're new to crypto. Welcome to crypto. Oh, my God, Bitcoin. I can't buy that. It's$116 ,000. I can barely afford lunch. Ethereum, well, that's pretty expensive. Oh, the XRP. I've heard about that. I saw some videos on YouTube. It's$3. bmb well i don't really know what that one is solana 175 dollars oh but doge elon likes doge it's 22 cents and kadana's in tons of videos it's 78 you can see what happens because we've all done it too so that's my general thesis that the anchoring bias of price is a real thing and look at the top 10 because you think you've derisked it yeah i think i saw there was like a there was like a quote i think on tom lee's desk did you see this over the week which over this week but i think you went on like bankless and in the background it was like never underestimate the uh the power of uninformed people and it was something like um it just points to the idea that like yeah when when if retail really comes in here you know all bets are off things are just starting to go great.

25:29And it feels like that broadly and macro again suddenly, right? You've seen meme stocks have a bit of a comeback. Obviously, stocks are all closed at all times, but it's starting to feel like 2021 a bit again. Yeah, so when you speak to friends now, some people got bored in crypto over that period of sideways consolidation. They're all punting options on tech stocks. Right, so the speculative fervor and the confidence that I can make money in this because everything's trending because of the debasement and everything else and we've got some mega narratives like AI makes it pretty easy game to make money in and you're starting to see it sucking more and more people in do you see any risks on the horizon for macro no no I mean I honestly don't I mean I've been trying to go through it myself I feel the only one would be in my eyes if it was seen as like a Trump overstretch against the Fed, that may wobble us.

26:27But other than that, it's probably for a few days, and then you probably just bounce straight back. That probably just means more capital. What's very interesting is, I've had this everything code thesis for quite a while now, but generally speaking, the crypto space has understood debasement of currency versus inflation, which is what TradFi thought of. And we've been on this trade saying they need to refinance the debt. That's the whole everything code thesis. And here is Scott Besson coming out saying publicly, we need stable coins to refi the debt. Trump saying, we need the Fed to cut rates because we need to refi the debt.

27:06The whole game is now open. They're telling you what the game is. And there's still a lot of tradfire people who don't want to understand it because debasement is not a thing that was taught at university. Yeah, look, I think that's very true. And And I like that you've been pretty reductive, I think, in your analysis as in like you've narrowed it down. And then you've also been promoting like throughout diversification, like just focus on a couple of assets. Right. That's been the general thesis that you've kind of pushed towards. And that's really been crypto. Is there anything else you find is an investable asset class right now?

27:48Like I know AI and robotics and these other things also have like not dissimilar return profiles. Is crypto just the only thing that you're looking at? Well, so very simply, what beats the debasement? The basement's about 8 % plus a bit of inflation, whatever. So call it 10%, 11%, 12%. Well, the S &P does that. So that doesn't help. Gold does a little bit less. So that doesn't help. So you've only got actually two assets in the world that outperform the debasement of currency. One is technology stocks and one is crypto. When you divide the NASDAQ by Bitcoin, it's down 99.997%. So it's like, okay, then when you put the correlations of the long-term drivers of the asset prices, 97.5 % of the NASDAQ is explained by debasement liquidity and 90 % of crypto.

28:39So you've got the largest dominant factor in the history of macro markets over the longest persistent period of time since 2008. So you basically only need to care about one thing, that. and the other side is how fast is being adopted which is why outperforms the debasement so in which case you've got only one macro factor that matters which is why i keep saying to everybody it's all noise whatever it is fucking israel china nobody nobody cares nobody cares because it's a 90 of all price movement is explained by one factor and then so just you must you must that's the case just buy one asset you must be really bored going on these podcasts for out it's the same it's like right okay yeah ignore everything ignore everything uh it's it's oh yeah this news has come out this week no not important not important um and this is weird to me right i was never that guy i was like the diversify we need a bit of this on some emerging market call options and it's like none of it fucking matters if it's crypto then all you need to do is look at what is the strongest performing chart let's say on a weekly basis and that happens to be suey um so i just own that but you could just own bitcoin or you could probably just own or you could own spilana and you'll be fine yeah i think that the the issue is always that like you come on these show come on obviously various different shows and everyone everyone believes in the past performance but they're just like okay but this might this time might be a little bit different that's gonna change it like maybe what about tariff what about tariff and even me like i'm not fully all in like obviously i what i have always been is this ever since kind of before covid actually is that i always keep a slice in in um in stable coins which i just put some sort of year because i know that although i believe in this the volatility of crypto is a feature and there's always a day where you can get massive outsized gains probably once every month once every two or three months it's like you wish you had more stables and i always trade around a bit of the volatility with that uh but i make sure that i always like when it when it goes back up to what i consider to be an okay level like i'll i'll take some profits in it but um and i'm a bit more diversified than i own a few different other assets but the um it does feel as when you when you this reductive kind of just own one thing it's going to outperform um it it's it's almost quite calming that's what i think i would say well one and then once you so you own one asset so you're going to have to watch this whole basket of shit.

31:15And we've all run portfolios. And before you know it, you've got 10 positions that are losing money because you don't focus on them. So it's like, get rid of all of that noise. Then look, look what Bitcoiners did. The early adopters did nothing. And they compounded more wealth than anybody else in the shortest period of time, pretty much, apart from a few startup founders. So the signal's there. And then if it is one factor, then all you need to worry about is liquidity. That's it. What do you think of these? because the other thing I've been thinking that might suit this sort of thesis is like these new crypto ETS, which kind of try and mimic like the S &P, you know, like, yes, for example, if you'd own the S &P 500 over the last however many years, you could get 12%.

31:56And the great thing about those indexes is like, when things drop out, you know, you don't hold on to them. You're not just holding that same basket stocks in 1980, right? It changes. And that can be the same with crypto here, They're going to create indexes which track, let's say, the top 10. And then as things drop out, they'll drop out. And as things come in, they'll drop in. Do you think those are going to be interesting as well, just to set and forget? I don't have to worry about ETH versus Solana versus Sui versus Bitcoin. I can just own something that basically is like a tracker of Bitcoin.

32:27Yeah, I know Bitwise is doing this, and those guys are great. Yeah, it makes total sense. It makes total sense. It still feels like the market, if I look at the top 20, it still feels like it's not mature enough, really. So you've kind of got some weird stuff in there. But generally speaking, it should work. It should work fine. The issue is Bitcoin's a bit too large percentage. It's large in a good way sometimes. Yeah, it doesn't feel that good right now. But I would agree that I would want to keep it to the top five because unlike the top five tech stocks, Maybe sometimes the top five tech stocks, the number 6L1 can just die.

33:10It can just go to zero in three years. It should just drop out of the index. It should be fine. I'd still want to keep it just the top top because I agree it's not mature enough as a product. No, I'd probably take top 10. I think that's fine for now. Keep some doge. You've got the issue. Yeah. You've got the issue of Bitcoin being a bit large, like MSCI World used to have this massive weighting of Japan, and everyone had to produce an ex-Japan version of it. So do you have an ex-Bitcoin version? So you can buy Bitcoin via an ETF and then have everything else ex-Bitcoin? Yeah, that's an interesting one.

33:54Because Bitcoin is a different beast, right? It's a network adoption model of a new collateral asset. Let's call it that. Well, the rest is really a technology that's being used for other stuff. Because I think a lot of people who are like medium-term investors in crypto, they maybe watch this show once a week or they check their portfolio once a week. They just get annoyed by the rotations in the L1s. That's the main thing I see at the moment is like, oh, I should have gone to ETH or I should have gone to Sui or I should have gone to Solana. And I feel like these sort of products would, for the person who just wants to have a crypto and believes in smart contracts and wants a crypto portfolio, I feel like these might actually be better than just like I'm a Solana person or I'm an East person or I'm a Suri person.

34:39There's not an ETF yet, is there, on a basket? We're getting there. I think we're like, if we haven't got one yet, they're being approved as we speak. Because that, I think, is a big deal. Yeah, I would agree. I would invest in that for a large bit of the portfolio, which I just want to have as like a passive investment in this space. Yeah, because my thesis, my overall thesis is space is going from three and a half trillion to 100 trillion. What's the easiest way to capture it? Well, I built an asset management firm, XPAM, because we invest in hedge funds, a basket of hedge funds. So it's a fund of funds to be able to capture that in the best way possible.

35:17But you also, there's a dumb way of doing it as well, which is own the index. And you'll capture that trend just fine. Right. But, you know, looking at the hedge funds to outperform or manage volatility risk, fine. But, you know, it still works. Yeah, I kind of just feel like once we have that sort of S &P style product for crypto, it will do very well. And I think a lot of money will flow into that rather than other things. So I'm kind of looking for that for like a passive investment sort of thing. but yeah just going back to the um to the other point it feels like crypto is just going to be the thing now like it's not you're not really getting drawn into other ai narrative i know you're very big in ai is more like a macro play but you're not right now you don't feel like that's you want to shift the portfolio no i've got i've had some trades in you know robin hood tesla rocket lab a few things here and there because it's intellectually interesting they've gone up a lot.

36:19So you can make some really good money out of some of those tech plays. And so we've had some really good ones. But the bulk of my own personal capital, I'll just keep it in this. It's just easy. I know that's weird. It's easy. The most volatile asset class I've ever invested. And it's like, well, I don't need to do anything. I just need to hold it. So maybe let's help the viewers a little bit. I don't know if I can share my screen. but it's i guess people probably have only started to look again at crypt at nfts um sure i don't know if i can share my screen but other than i mean i'm looking now crypto punk's 210k floor um grift is 75k floor 70k floor uh what other things i guess moonbers are now 10k wreck guy yeah let me just pull up that because there's a mix that people don't just have like 100 200 gay to get in and i feel like no that's right so you can so if you're looking at the cheaper end of the market if you're looking for the cheaper end of the art market just to get started but it's not cheap but mid-range is chromie squiggles right there yeah og space If you're looking at PFP collections, which are not my most favorite, unless they're super kind of culturally relevant, obviously you've got Crypto Dickbutts, you've got RecGuy, you've got MFers, you've got MeBits.

37:56You know, those are all kind of culturally relevant that have big fan bases and broad ownership. um i don't know if i can you can see this now i mean rec guys are at one eighth floor right now it's not expensive records are at one eighth obviously that's that's interesting but like there will be some here and i think what's interesting is trying to see some of these like brand these nft collections that people think and get bought back out again but i do think that stick to additions of the top artists that's always a good way to to yeah i I mean, XCopy's got this great hierarchy of stuff. So you can start with Max Payne and Friends, which is cheap, or you can go up to a one-of-one.

38:35There's tons in the middle as well that are trading a lot. Mibits, obviously. Sergito, we've got to give him a shout-out for now running that. I think they've got a good chance. But the interesting thing about this, they are rallying and they're holding their gains. So if you've been in meme coins for the last two years, things rally and then they just drop 70%. Because this is where the illiquidity works for you because they get locked up and they don't trade again. So they don't get puked. The other one interesting I've talked about before is I think something that's really underpriced, potentially, but riskier is Bored Ape at 12.

39:19Yeah, so this is the interesting one, because what I just said is this whole equity play could come back. And I do think that Ford 8 suddenly become an interesting trade again, if that was to be the case. Like if a gaming firm looked at them and being like, hey, this could be good for our stock price if we bought this out or took this brand. Adam Weitzman, who's a very big collector, I'm sure you know him, came out and bought 5 ,000 of the other deeds the other day, which is their gaming play but but there's just a bit more positive center around nfts and i'd be surprised if this if they don't take part in this a bit more um at 50k they've also got a coin as well obviously which which allows for this more um yeah this like more dynamic uh i mean they pioneered this whole ip play thing of you know integrating gaming merch allowing networks to build stuff on top of it um then have their own coin now it's not all worked out perfectly but let's see that's that's one for me uh i mean they're not cheap but but you know considering what outrageous price i paid for mine in the peak of the bull market they can go further I've always got a soft spot for Bored Apes as you probably know they've obviously the collection that we kind of made our name on but yeah there's other you can do Mutants and you can do Bored Apes so I think there's I would agree with you I'm just going to share this one just so people know where to start there's an easy website called nftfloorprice.com I think it is nftpricerricefloor.com really easy you can click on punks it'll give you the chart of punks in dollars or in crypto and you can start just looking through at the prices the volumes traded how much supplies that's just a really simple way um to have a look through this collection so there's me bits you know how's um our friend sergey have been doing well let's check it out the last three months since he's been involved now needs to load let's see if he's actually adding value or destroying value you never know with Sergio incredible time actually to have bought uh like him and Spencer both bought these back from you so look here's the Sergio effect it went from half an e to basically an e um in spite of him in spite of in spite of having a mad Mexican running the thing it it does feel as though that was the trade like I said like it was a good time to buy ip and i think it's really ironic actually that so many of these changed hands at that time like if you kind of kept hold of them suddenly i think they they probably could have sold them for a bit more this exact stage but mickey bought punks for like 20 something 24 22 million what for the most legendary ip in the entire space he paid nothing for it i think they also liked it because he's putting into a foundation it's not going to fuck with it versus selling it to Microsoft These transactions went through at the actual lows it feels like and I mean Yuga Labs I think the issue is and because obviously Yuga Labs stayed open some of these other ones have actually fully shut down you know like you've seen a few collections over the last couple of months just kind of be like right we can't continue and Yuga Labs I think decided they need to divest and they did it uh maybe because they had to at that time but yeah these could be very interesting plays very very interesting plays i think me bits is a good one let me go too so um if you can share the screen so here's the long-term chart of me bits i love charts like this because you've got this rounded bottom pattern inverse head and shoulders low you've seen that it can actively trade big volume at four and five and it's currently at 0.86 we've got change of ownership we've got a new story it's like that's a pretty bloody good chart have you got any wrecked ral yeah yeah well i got it from from originally yes claimed it originally and have not done anything just held on to it much like i did with my wreck guy as well yeah it's been i think that's that's what people are looking at um the wreck token has is done like many multiples.

43:59I think it's the top performing token out of the top 300 over the last month. And they're looking at that for things like MiBits, Moonbirds, and been like, right, if we launch a token and we create some sort of flywheel here around the product, I know Moonbirds is going to do trading cards. I'm sure Sergito is thinking about different things when it comes to gaming or merch. It seems interesting. I still think dot, dot, dot, yet to be proven with ecosystem tokens and maintaining value over time. It's been really hard for almost everybody. So that's my happy app with it all. The Pengu has been the one that's worked.

44:39Yeah, but that was only this cycle, right? Anything from last cycle went down 99.9%, including ApeCoin. Yeah, Ape has been the one that didn't. And now we see if you can hold on to some sort of a game. So we'll see. Can I go through some questions towards the end of the show now? So Francisco Munoz from Real Vision says, hey, guys, can I get your thoughts on Maple Finance and JITO? What potential, if any, do you see any significant roadblocks that need to be addressed? Thank you for your amazing work. I'll take the first one of these, which is Maple Finance. I think it's a very interesting coin here because they have a coin called Syrup.

45:15It's kind of a proxy for their stable coin play. they have like a protocol called syrup where you can get around 10 interest on on a stable coin and the tvl on that has soared over the last uh of so far this year it trades around 500 million i think i think that's a very interesting play um in terms of altcoins because one of the best performing coins of the last month has been athena which is now the third biggest stable coin by market cap. It's just around 10 billion now. And I think these sort of stable coin proxies are interesting trades here. JITO less so because it's more just a staking protocol, but I like Maple Finance.