In short
Geopolitics and markets—whether the Iran conflict restart threatens oil flows and inflation, plus positioning for memory stocks/semiconductors, and whether US-China “decoupling” in strategic metals is easing.
Guests
Mikl Rosemol (host) and Andres Denno (guest/analyst). Andres is a macro/markets commentator focused on oil, inflation, and semiconductors; he references Real Vision research and tracks oil flows (e.g., via Rory Johnston) and semiconductor/export data (Micron/Hynix/TSMC/ASML).
Key claims
Trump wants the US to “run Hormuz,” but oil flow may be “OK-ish” (not fully closed); the bigger risk is products (jet fuel/diesel) due to refinery constraints and record US crack spreads. Inflation likely rolls over: forecast June headline 3.7% and core 2.7%, ~0.2pp below consensus, which could reprice US rates. Memory stocks likely haven’t peaked; spot semiconductor prices and company guidance suggest demand into 2027–2031. China–US metals decoupling remains frosty despite a Beijing ceasefire; data through June shows no rebound.
Notable examples
Dark tanker transits via Omani route; strategic reserve usage; US bank earnings starting Tuesday; ASML as AI bellwether; TSMC export “bizarre” June; hyperscalers funding semiconductor capex; China metals exports to US via third countries.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOGeopolitical Tensions and Oil Concerns
0:45 to 2:20
Discussion on the implications of geopolitical tensions on the oil market.
“Well, I don't think you should ask me that question, whether the war is over.”
Market Reactions and Oil Flow Analysis
2:20 to 8:00
Analysis of the current oil market flow and potential impacts of U.S. actions.
“We had this message from Donald Trump just an hour and a half ago, I think, that Donald Trump wants the U.S.”
Inflation and Economic Forecasts
10:06 to 14:00
Examining inflation rates and their potential impacts on economic policy.
“I have a feeling, Andreas, looking at the numbers in your analysis, that we were getting very, very close to the price of the pump finally dropping.”
Humorous AC Discussions
14:15 to 16:48
The hosts discuss humorous anecdotes related to air conditioning in Europe and share personal experiences.
“Let's get to a few of our laughs of the week.”
Hyperscalers and Semiconductor Spending
16:48 to 18:09
Exploration of hyperscalers' investments in semiconductors and market trends.
“It was possibly the story of 2025 as well.”
Price Trends of Semiconductors
18:09 to 20:10
Discussion on the ongoing trends in semiconductor prices and market expectations.
“And one of the smaller players, Taiwanese semiconductor player, last week was quoted for saying that they expected the big players within that space to hike prices 30 % to 40 % in Q3.”
July Export Data Analysis
20:10 to 21:36
Analysis of July's semiconductor export data and its implications for the market.
“We're obviously covering that in a lot of our publications on Real Vision if we want to dive into all these charts and even more on that.”
Memory Trade Insights
21:36 to 23:12
Insights on the memory trade's current state and its future potential in the market.
“on Friday on why memory is probably not as cyclical anymore.”
Upcoming Earnings and CPI Focus
23:12 to 25:31
Focus on upcoming earnings reports and CPI data that will impact market trends.
“Again, I cannot put it more transparently than what I do.”
China-U.S. Trade Relations and Metals
25:31 to 28:00
Discussion on U.S.-China trade relations regarding strategic metals and the implications of recent ceasefires.
“We have time for just one more topic that I know you're very, very anxious.”
Show all 13 chapters
Trade Relationships and Strategic Rivalries
28:00 to 29:49
Explore the complexities of trade relationships influenced by strategic rivalries, particularly between the US and China.
“And nothing, nothing points in the direction of this trade relationship rebounding, nothing.”
Market Dynamics and Inflation Insights
29:50 to 31:03
Discuss the impact of inflation reports on market strategies and the challenges of navigating economic data.
“The EU is finally getting to grips with this problem as well, has essentially taken over the Trump playbook, as we talked about a few weeks back.”
Future Outlook for July
31:04 to 32:09
Anticipate upcoming market changes and the importance of acknowledging economic indicators.
“this is one of the, this is one of the, you know, timings where it gets really tricky as a strategist and a PM because our data is screaming in one direction, right?”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Andreas Steno:Summertime is maybe good, summertime is maybe shit. It's Macro Mondays, big picture, clear place, stocks, bonds, FX, crypto on the way. Get context, strategy right now on your screen. Macro Mondays, level up your week, oh yeah.
0:21Mikkel Rosenvold:Hello out there, welcome to Real Vision, welcome to Macro Mondays. My name is Mikl Rosemol, your usual host, and as usual, I'm joined by Andres Denno. And while I'm sending to you from rainy Copenhagen, Andres, you're live with us from the warmth of Corsica. Andres, before I get to ask you about the elephant in the room behind you, let's start with the other elephant. Do we need to worry about oil again? I thought the war was over.
0:48Andreas Steno:Well, I don't think you should ask me that question, whether the war is over. I think I've called it over like three or four times, but I actually don't think the oil math looks that bad compared to, say, March or April. So I'm not worried as we speak. But of course, we cannot live with a closed rate for the rest of the year. So it depends on your time horizon, Mikkel. That's the long answer to the short question.
1:13Mikkel Rosenvold:And what's the big trade you're looking at right now, Andreas?
1:17Andreas Steno:I think the big trade that everybody's looking at is the memory stocks. You know, we've had bizarre volatility on Friday and on a Monday here again in some of the names that everybody's involved in. So, you know, I think we're approaching a point where it looks incredibly tempting to buy the dip here in memory.
1:37Mikkel Rosenvold:Absolutely. We'll dive much more into this, including a look ahead at the prints this week and all the news that we're going to be getting on the inflation picture. They're obviously heavily influenced by oil. Remember, this is our free show on Real Vision that is published across platforms. We publish a number of articles and exclusive shows on Real Vision as well. So do check out your options on realvision.com for even more content, including, Andres, your Oil Flash update. We will be digging a little bit into it, but if you want the full picture, the full analysis and all, you need to sign up for Real Vision's Pro Cheer for that.
2:16Mikkel Rosenvold:Andres, let's dive straight into it. We had this message from Donald Trump just an hour and a half ago, I think, that Donald Trump wants the U.S. to run Hormuz. And we're essentially in a position addressed where for the past week or so, we've had increasing attacks from both sides, leading up to the point where Donald Trump, first of all, declared the ceasefire for over, initiated heavy attacks on the IRGC over the weekend. And we didn't really get any hope here, Andreas. We didn't really get any talk about returning to the negotiation table. And now there's news that the U.S. wants to run the Strait of Hormuz.
3:00Mikkel Rosenvold:Now, let's start with geopolitics here, Andreas. I wrote a piece last week, and you can check it out on Real Vision on why we got to this point, why the U.S. miscalculated in the Memorandum of Understanding. It's actually, there are some logic steps you can follow game theory wise as to why the Iranian Republican Guard ended up essentially disrupting the memorandum and the peace process. But now we're at this point, Andreas, the U.S. wants to run the Strait of Hormuz. I don't know what that means. How do you run a block of water? Do you run the coastlines on each side? Possibly. Do you take some of the islands within?
3:38Mikkel Rosenvold:Do you blockade it navally? We don't know. In any case, this speaks to further disturbances to the flow of oil. How do you gauge the market reaction to all this address? And have we seen the worst yet?
3:53Andreas Steno:I mean, if we look at the oil price live, we're not even above Thursday's peak. So, I mean, it's not that bad. And speaking of the flow, I mean, we're not talking about a closed straight, at least. I borrowed a chart from our good friend, Rory Johnston. So a big shout out to him. He's really, really good follow when it comes to the flows in and out of the Strait of Hormuz. And it's been clear to me for a while that the flow was better than reported everywhere, basically. So if you look at the left-hand side here, we have the west to east flow out of the Strait of Hormuz of tanker ships, right?
4:33Andreas Steno:And we had a lot of unaccounted dark transits basically through June, most of July. We still have those. Still waiting for the point where Donald Trump admits to Abu Dhabi being behind these dark transits. And I still think that it remains the case that the flow is actually OK-ish. I mean, there is at least the flow. So having said that, I think basically the beige bar here, the Omani route, is what triggered the response from the military side of the Iranian leadership. So the U.S. effectively managed to create a transit together with the administration in Oman. It is now not used again. And so, I mean, they have at least effectively managed to officially close that part with the attacks that they've made, the ERJTC over the past days here.
5:38Andreas Steno:So, I mean, there is a flow. It is incredibly difficult to gauge it in real time. As I've said over and over, I think the best way of gauging it is to look at a lot of very technical price spreads in oil markets. I can show you a couple of them in just a second. But having said that, Mikkel, I don't think the market response points us in a direction where we should be overly worried about the oil flow, especially since we had a pretty massive flow out, say, over the first two weeks of this ceasefire. And those ships are basically in transit now, right? So we know that a lot of oil will arrive over the next four weeks, both in Asia and elsewhere.
6:22Andreas Steno:And if we look at the current setup, I've tried to calculate backwards, if you know what I mean, on page 14, how close are we to some sort of normalized oil flow out of the region? And my best assessment is that we lack 4 million barrels a day. Is that manageable for the US and China in cooperation? Well, they managed to fill a void of, say, 8 million barrels through April and May. So we're basically talking about half the damage of when it peaked. And we still have time, but, you know, we're still using strategic reserves, both in China and in the U.S., to fill this gap. And there is obviously an end date to such a policy mix, right?
7:13Andreas Steno:So having said that, that end date is not anywhere near. we're talking three, four, five months from here. So there's still time.
7:21Mikkel Rosenvold:And, you know, that is the true long-term picture of this, Andres, because obviously the Iranians, the Republican guard essentially, especially they're really trying to push their leverage on this. They feel like this is their chip to both make a lot of money, but obviously also to secure their position in the future. But there's a limit to how much they can push this. We've discussed this a lot, Andres. And not only are they pushing the patients of the Americans, they're also pushing the patients of China. And the rest of the world has learned by now how to address this. So if the strait gets closed, yes, it's a problem.
7:57Mikkel Rosenvold:We know how to fix it. China just stops buying oil. And in the future, we're going to have a lot more ways to fix this. We already heard talks about the U.S. investing massively in shortcuts around or in alternative routes to get both oil and other commodities out of the Gulf and rest. So, so far, not overly worried, it seems to me. Also, you know, Andres, once we hit$100 in oil, if we get there, people begin to get very, very, very creative. And that's not even accounted for here.
8:28Andreas Steno:No, but my best guess would be that we won't even get close to$100 again. I think the equilibrium right now is probably$80. And having said that, Miguel, the issue is not oil. The issue is products. So, you know, jet fuel, diesel, et cetera. We're talking about a situation where we've managed to bypass the straight of amuse on oil, but we haven't managed to bypass the straight-over moves on jet fuel products because we cannot move the refiners. And that's still an issue. We're talking record-high crack spreads in the U.S. because refiners have moved marginal capacities of jet fuel instead of gasoline and diesel, etc.
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10:16Andreas Steno:It's still an issue that the trade is closed, especially when it comes to the consumer inflation, because as long as the trade is closed, you cannot pass on the full price disinflation from the barrels of oil because of a lack of refinance capacity, basically.
10:32Mikkel Rosenvold:I have a feeling, Andreas, looking at the numbers in your analysis, that we were getting very, very close to the price of the pump finally dropping. And now it's probably been postponed a few weeks at least here. I'm not overly confident that we're going to have an improvement on the political situation here, But the fallout from markets seems to be a little bit more compressed this time around, not perhaps as dramatic as we saw earlier this year. But let's have a look at inflation. Obviously, we have inflation rates coming out this week, the big prints. We've talked a lot about your expectation that inflation will roll over.
11:12Mikkel Rosenvold:We're seeing it in our now casting. Will we get evidence of that already now? Or do we need to wait another month for this to kick in?
11:22Andreas Steno:So if we look at the June inflation from Europe to begin with, we already have some evidence from Europe a couple of weeks back. And it looked pretty benign outside of energy. And so it wasn't really an energy story that surprised the market. And my best guess, you know, we run our now costing across all of the subcategories in the inflation index is that we get a pretty soft report, broadly speaking. It's not an energy story. Of course, it's partially an energy story, but it's not a standalone story. And my best guess is that we get a report that prints 0.2 % points below the consensus tomorrow, which should be a pretty big deal, especially given the chart that you just put on the screen here, Michael, right?
12:05Andreas Steno:Because we had the FOMC meeting minutes out. It was Wednesday or Thursday last week. And it was probably the most hawkish message from the Federal Reserve since 2022, where they had this hiking cycle, right? So a lot of members are clearly concerned about the inflation outlook, but it's still an outlook thing. If the outlook improves, then my best guess is that they'll wait and see. So, you know, I cannot put enough emphasis on this inflation report. If it prints soft, it should massively reprice the front end of the curve in the US because everyone is so concerned about inflation within that committee.
12:48Andreas Steno:So they'll probably change their mind if inflation comes down right. It's not like they've changed their reaction function. They've changed their outlook, and that outlook is probably wrong, if you ask me. So I see it more as a forecasting error than a policy error, if that makes sense.
13:03Mikkel Rosenvold:Yeah, and a matter of time lag of when these reports are sampled and counted together. Okay, so we had the last print at 4.2%, consensus around 3.9%. What's your bet to make this very, very specific so we can hold you up on this next week?
13:17Andreas Steno:3.7 % for headline and 2.7 % for core. So yeah, it's a little bit less than 0.2 % points below consensus. A big surprise in case we're right.
13:28Mikkel Rosenvold:An ice cold print, if that's what we're about to get. Very, very interesting address. Maybe the Iran story still, the restart sort of of the war in Iran, maybe that gives Kevin Walsh a bit more breathing space before the pressure mounts on him to begin a new cutting season. I still think the political pressure will emerge at some point, but right now, obviously, he has the best excuse of them all, which is disturbances to oil and the energy market address. So very, very interesting. So a quick break in your regular programming. If you're serious about your future, grab my free report called Prepare for 2030.
14:06Mikkel Rosenvold:I think you've got five years to make as much money as possible. And this guide will help you navigate what's coming. The link is in the description. Download it now. Let's get to a few of our laughs of the week. We like to throw in a few of them on the show, Andreas. First of all, you posted this picture. You sent it to me yesterday because we've been talking a lot about AC this year. Obviously, we're both living in Europe. We're living in the part of Europe where it's only really hot for a few weeks every year. But it's been exceptionally hot this year. And a lot of Europeans have been traveling to the U.S.
14:39Mikkel Rosenvold:for the World Cup and experiencing what AC is. It's like they've crossed the river into Narnia and seen what's over there. And you seem to be really enjoying your AC down in France, Andreas. How's it working out?
14:54Andreas Steno:Yeah, I just posted this picture because when I started talking about a lack of AC in Copenhagen, you know, my inbox was full of these, oh, you're just a Europe poor messages, right? And this is a heat pump slash an AC in the house here in France. So it is possible here in Europe. I just wanted to confirm that. It's from just outside. So we can actually figure stuff out here. I think you put it very well when we had this discussion on AC here in Europe, Wregel, that it's actually because the demand hasn't really been there to launch extended Northern Europe that the solutions are not pretty good.
15:41Andreas Steno:So in that sense, I guess it's a matter of time before enough people will demand AC for us to get there. But let's see.
15:53Mikkel Rosenvold:Absolutely. Just to confirm all the notions about Europoros, I went to an open house on a house builder over the weekend. I asked them about what's it going to take here in Denmark to build a complete AC covered house. Not going to happen. if you apply for permit to build, that is just going to be turned down. So still a bit of work to do here in the north of Europe, but happy to hear that you're enjoying it, Andreas. And I know you've been enjoying this chart as well, the complete K-curve of hyperscalers and semiconductor companies that's really making rounds on Twitter right now and really got you agitated from the poolside there, Andreas.
16:35Mikkel Rosenvold:What are we looking at here?
16:37Andreas Steno:Well, I think the chart is pretty interesting in itself, right? You know, hyperscalers are spending all of their free cash flows to buy semiconductors. That is essentially the story of 2026. It was possibly the story of 2025 as well. And I think it will be the story of 2027 as well. The guy here, Puro, is a decent fund manager, but he's a part of the very vocal crowd right now. admittedly sort of having the upper hand in price action on these things at the moment, calling for mean reversion, say this cannot continue. Fair enough. And then he explicitly states that you should never buy cyclicals, in this case, semiconductor companies around peak earnings.
17:23Andreas Steno:And I'm like, should you ever buy anything around peak earnings? Right. It's like water is wet, that statement. Having said that, Miguel. Don't buy the peak. That's yeah. No shit, Sherlock. Right. But having said that, the discussion is not whether to buy a cyclical at peak or not. I mean, that's just a silly part of that discussion. The discussion is whether we've peaked or not, or whether this will continue to accelerate. And I simply don't see anything that points in the direction that we've peaked. If you look at the underlying spot price of semiconductors, for example, we're still accelerating.
17:59Andreas Steno:If you look, it's on page 22. So even since we've got the updates from Micron, Hynix, etc., we're probably up another 20 % or so. And one of the smaller players, Taiwanese semiconductor player, last week was quoted for saying that they expected the big players within that space to hike prices 30 % to 40 % in Q3. And, I mean, that's certainly not discounted. If you look at the forward earnings, most market participants expect the semiconductor companies to peak in Q1 next year or something like that. So that's the discussion. Will the cycle run for longer than Q1 next year? If you look at the communication from the hyperscalers, it will run far further.
18:50Andreas Steno:If you look at the communication from Hynix, for example, itself, they say we basically have a solid orders book until 2031. So, I mean, there's a huge divergence between what most of these bearish PMs currently expect and what the companies involved in this free cash flow transfer from hyperscalers to semiconductors say about it, because they communicate that 2027 will be wilder, way wilder than 2026. 2026. So I'm of the view that, you know, we're currently in a setback for a lot of momentum trades, basically all of the trades that have worked so far this year. But it's very driven by this shot from the policy slash forecasting era from the Fed Reserve earlier in June.
19:39Andreas Steno:You know, we've had higher dollar real rates for a while. A lot of people are a little bit scared whether we'll get interest rate hikes, et cetera, right? So if we get that off the table again, then I think people will start staring at these spot prices for memory chips once again and conclude that we're far from peaking. My best guess is that we peak maybe late 2027, early 2028, if I should give a guess right now. But there's just nothing pointing to peak right now if you look at the underlying price trends.
20:10Mikkel Rosenvold:Very interesting, Andreas. We're obviously covering that in a lot of our publications on Real Vision if we want to dive into all these charts and even more on that. Let's go to your favorite number, Andreas, the export numbers out of South Korea. People love it when we bring this on, also because it's such a high-frequency number. Are we seeing a rollover right now?
Read the full transcript
20:32Andreas Steno:Well, we've had data from the first 10 days of July, and it looks a little weaker than June. June was extraordinary on all scores. We had the results from TSMC early this morning, also showing that June was probably the most bizarre month in financial history in terms of exports of everything semiconductor-related. So, sure, are we seeing a slight rollover in July? Yeah, but is it a big surprise? I mean, half of the globe is on vacation. I mean, I'd like to see more. to state that this is a chart that rolls over. But obviously, it's one of the charts that we have to watch on a running basis here because when this chart rolls over, the memory trade is done.
21:21Andreas Steno:We all know that. So again, the question here is whether we've peaked in terms of sales, in terms of earnings, in terms of margins, et cetera. The question is not whether the sector is cyclical or not. And I wrote a long, long story on Friday on why memory is probably not as cyclical anymore. For those of you interested in that, I actually spent the time investigating, researching on the underlying trends hardware-wise while Michael Burry and his crew, they just say mean reversion, mean reversion, mean reversion, mean reversion. They've said it two years in a row. I consider that analysis lazy, to be honest.
22:04Andreas Steno:And I've been stuck in a Twitter battle with Michael Burry for a while. At least I'm spending my vacation on something fruitful here, right? Am I?
22:15Mikkel Rosenvold:At least you're arguing with him and not your wife. That's a positive, Andreas.
22:20Andreas Steno:I've told her a lot of times during the past week that the memory trade has not peaked.
22:26Mikkel Rosenvold:That's good to hear. That's good to hear, Andreas. So just to compress this a bit, Andreas, still confident about the inflation picture? We'll have to see what happens in the Strait of Hormuz, if that can disrupt that. I'm sure it's going to be used as an excuse to postpone that, but still very bullish on the inflation picture, still bullish on the memory picture. The question we get a lot here, is it too late to enter the memory trade in Rares?
22:54Andreas Steno:I get why it's difficult to enter it if you haven't been in it. I get that, especially since the momentum trade has really suffered for, two weeks running. So I'm not speaking from a strong position right now because my book is suffering. I have to admit to that. Again, I cannot put it more transparently than what I do. I think everything spot-wise points in the direction of the further acceleration of prices. To me, that's still strong evidence that there is more to go on these trades. And I don't consider the memory trade to be as cyclical as it once was. So I have 9%, 10 % of my portfolio in memory stocks, something like that.
23:40Andreas Steno:If you include other semiconductor companies where we're past 25 % of my portfolio, that is the most transparent way of saying it. I mean, I have my money in the trade. So I think it will go up.
23:55Mikkel Rosenvold:Looking ahead to next week, Andreas, that's also something we like to do in this show. Obviously, we're heavily focused on the CPI print. Any earnings, anything else to gauge the memory trade or other momentums that you're watching?
24:10Andreas Steno:So, I mean, we got some numbers from TSMC, right? And we have the earnings season opening with all of the banks tomorrow, Tuesday, alongside the CPI. So, you know, Citibank and Goldman and all of those. Then on Wednesday, we have our good friends in the Netherlands, the ASML reporting. ASML is probably the only gauge you have in Europe on the AI momentum, right? More or less. But of course, an important global bellwether as well. Also, since they, you know, it's always tricky to figure out how much they're, you know, truly selling to Asia. And, you know, they're always at risk of China getting hold of their technology and all of that.
25:01Andreas Steno:So, I mean, there are kind of two sides to that report. Both will obviously look at the earnings trends, but will also look at the orders book and where it goes. And on top of that, you know, it's earnings season now. So, you know, we cannot hide anymore. All of the discussions on whether we've peaked. I mean, we'll get the evidence over the coming month or two, right? So the expectations are much higher than in Q1, but for good reasons. I still think that we'll see a beat across the board.
25:34Mikkel Rosenvold:Okay, Andreas. We have time for just one more topic that I know you're very, very anxious. It's a bit unfair to leave it to you with five minutes to go. But this is a chart we've been talking about a lot for the past few years. a basket of the most critical and strategic metals exports out of China, or US imports from China as a percentage of total imports. We had a few weeks back a seemingly positive, productive meeting in Beijing, Trump and Xi. There was talks of trade ceasefire, a detour even in the relations. What are you seeing in these markets, Andreas? Is the decoupling that we've had as a trading bet not working anymore as a consequence of this?
26:19Mikkel Rosenvold:What are you seeing?
26:21Andreas Steno:Well, quite clearly, a couple of the decoupling bets we had in our portfolio have suffered from this ceasefire. And you actually had that right at the time. I was a little bit more skeptical. But, you know, sometimes markets, they trade off narratives instead of what's actually going on beneath the hood. The trade relationship is as frosty as it's ever been. Every single data point points you in that direction from the standpoint of making a conclusion. So this data is updated until 1st of June. So it lacks a little bit because it's export data. But, you know, the three, four weeks that followed the ceasefire in Beijing basically didn't lead to any whatsoever reversal of that trade relationship.
27:13Andreas Steno:I know that the U.S. will probably just buy these medals via third party, right? It's not like, remember when we were all not allowed to trade with Russia all of a sudden because of the invasion, right? And I mostly agreed with that conclusion, by the way. But in any case, we started trading with Russia via third-party countries, right? It's probably the same that happens here, right? That China sells these things to Malaysia or another party that holds good relationships with the US. So it's not like I'm overly scared of a scarcity within that space. But it still goes to show that the US needs to sort of retain control of its supply chain.
27:57Andreas Steno:and Europe for that matter. We're just waiting for the U.S. to do this for us. And nothing, nothing points in the direction of this trade relationship rebounding, nothing. I think they had to sort of agree on a ceasefire because they had a common issue with the Strait of Hormuz that they had to deal with. If we move on the other side of that Strait of Hormuz issue, probably take a while, then this could probably resurface, right? But right now, and I'm very curious to hear your thoughts on that, it seems like both Xi and Trump agree that they have to take it a bit easy given that they're both dependent on ensuring that the oil market is balanced.
28:48Andreas Steno:But I can assure you that the Chinese, they hold a pretty decent card if they start buying a lot of oil just before the midterms, right? Because they can move the needle now. They can really move the needle if they want to on oil prices ahead of that election date, which is something that they have to account for that risk at the White House. I mean, I haven't really heard them talking about it, but probably since they're scared of talking about it.
29:15Mikkel Rosenvold:Yeah, absolutely. And there's a limit to how much the U.S. can do to counteract that. So I agree with you. It seems like the U.S. and China found a common problem. And that's often what you need to get to terms and to set aside your crawls. But it's still right there underneath the surface. This is the big strategic rivalry. The big strategic problem is the dependence on China and especially these metals. So that decoupling bet is going nowhere. It's a long-term bet, but it's going nowhere. We're going to see, no matter who's elected in both the EU and the US, we're going to see enormous investments in solving this problem.
29:52Mikkel Rosenvold:The EU is finally getting to grips with this problem as well, has essentially taken over the Trump playbook, as we talked about a few weeks back. And yeah, maybe at some point this will be the common problem that unites the EU and the US again. That's always been my idea, that both the EU and the US have this problem in common. So why don't we work together on it instead of waging separate trade wars against China on and off? So, yeah, maybe we'll see that in the coming years.
30:22Andreas Steno:Yeah, but Michael, one thing I'll add here, and that's basically the thing that we've been waiting for maybe, say, two, three, four weeks in a row, is that this trade, this decoupling trade in metals, it won't work as long as we have a strong dollar and as long as we have high energy costs. So, you know, maybe the inflation report tomorrow is basically the timing to get into all of these metals trades. We started trading that theme a little bit last week, but we're a bit cautious in terms of adding a lot to it until we see a weaker price action in the US dollar. And it basically requires a softer inflation picture and a turnaround of the current rhetoric from the Federal Reserve.
31:03Andreas Steno:And, you know, this is one of the, this is one of the, you know, timings where it gets really tricky as a strategist and a PM because our data is screaming in one direction, right? Inflation down, softer dollar, everything related to that. But those in charge, they haven't really acknowledged that, right? And we need them to acknowledge what our data is telling us for it to work. So, you know, I'm an eager beaver, but I'm really trying to be patient here because we need Kevin Warsh to play ball before we can get into this short dollar trade and all of that. And I still think it's a little early, but we'll see tomorrow.
31:45Andreas Steno:Hopefully the inflation report is sufficiently solved for this to gain some momentum.
31:50Mikkel Rosenvold:Yeah, you could argue that this is where you're supposed to be when you're doing your own data research. You should be ahead of the official acknowledgement, but sometimes it's a bit of a patience issue. But let's see what happens tomorrow. Absolutely. Let's see what happens tomorrow, and let's see where everything heads, Andreas. We're in for a very, very interesting July. No rest for the wicked here. Have a great final days of your journey to Corsica, Andreas. We will be back with a lot of content on Real Vision, even though you're down there, Andreas. we're still producing a lot of content on there we have my weekly The Drill geopolitical article out on Wednesday later today we have the Oil Flash article and then we have our weekly portfolio update out on Friday as well so lots of good stuff to look out for that's all we had for you this week but remember to tune in to Macro Mondays every Monday live on Real Vision X, YouTube and wherever you might elsewhere find it so thanks for today see you next week you obviously enjoyed the episode because you're here with me at the end but listen don't forget to go to realvision.com forward slash join and grab a free membership it's an incredible community packed with alpha great investment ideas and the research that you need to help you unfuck your future so get started now go to realvision.com forward slash join .
From the publisher
Andreas Steno and Mikkel Rosenvold are back with the latest Macro Mondays to discuss the latest escalation in the Middle East and what the impact might be; a slowdown in Korean chip exports and what it tells us about the health of the AI trade; and a worrying new trend in the U.S.-China rivalry.
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