Q&A: $950K Net Worth Working in Government, Career Burnout, & Ditching a Pension

22:22Robert Croak:Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert, I'll let you kick this one off.

22:25Austin Hankwitz:This is a tricky one. And I feel like you and I are going to be on opposite sides of the fence. My first thought is, Jacob, stick it out to September. You seem like a smart guy. You're going to find another opportunity so you don't have to pay back the 9 ,500. But then the math of it is if you take the new job and all of a sudden you're making $12 ,000 more a year just in year one without any future bonuses or raises, it's going to pay off over the long term. But the number one thing I want to say here, because I've gone down this road with employees in the past, is think about it from this perspective.

22:59Austin Hankwitz:What if I leave now, get the new job because it has a brighter future with more earnings, and then I don't make it at the company and I lose the job in two, three, four months? Then you gave up$9 ,500 of money you've already received and you don't have the new higher paying job. So I just want to make sure you consider both sides of the math equation because long-term, absolutely. If you feel great about the new job, that's the move because within a year, you're going to make that money back at 9 ,500, but there is the risk that you go there. You don't like the environment, they fire you or whatever.

23:33Austin Hankwitz:So make sure you consider both, but either way, you're going to be fine because you're in a great financial situation.

23:39Robert Croak:Jacob, what a situation to be in. And I appreciate Robert laying that out. So we're talking about a$12 ,000 per year increase in compensation here from 51 to 63 pre-tax. That's 24%, 23 % of an increase, which is material when you're making$51 ,000. I mean, I remember making$62 ,000 out of college. You get an extra thousand a month, that is changing your life. It really is. And at 51, I mean, this is a life-changing, it's really going to impact you, especially at 26 years old. You've done a great job, by the way. I've got 70-something thousand dollars here, saved and invested at just 26, working at 51 ,000.

24:19Robert Croak:That's incredible. Good for you. Jacob, I would take the new job. I would use the$17 ,500 in my high-yield savings to pay back the$9 ,500 of student loans. And then over the next 12 to 18 months, after taxes and all the stuff that gets taken out, you will make back that$9 ,500 to replenish your emergency fund with. And now in perpetuity, assuming you get a two or 3 % raise here and there, maybe a little bit of a bonus, but you keep the job. Everything was great. You will make tens of thousands of dollars more. Like you will make so much more money by 30, by taking this new job, then by staying at your existing job until 30.

24:57Robert Croak:But, oh, I got to, you know, they paid off my student loans. Like there's so much more upside by taking this new job, in my opinion. The part that is tricky, I don't know what the new company is related to the old job. So think about it like this. I have someone close to me that works at a very established company that makes like 60 or 65 ,000 a year. They could go get a job making maybe 80 or 85 ,000 a year, but nine times out of 10, when they look for that job, it's a startup that's hiring for that. Or it's, you know, it's some sort of like, not that established company that's hiring for it, which means and they've had this happen to them in the past where they would go work at a startup making 80 90 100 120 ,000 a year.

25:41Robert Croak:But after 9 12 18 months, the startup fails, or they can't get funding, or the business doesn't grow how they thought and they get laid off, right. And so right now, they're in a situation where it's like, yeah, I make a little bit less, but it's super locked in. And I know this company is going to be here for a long time. That could be you right now at this$51 ,000, right? It's a little bit less, but maybe it's an established company and you see that they're going to be there for a while, especially now with all the layoffs that are happening with AI. That could be important to consider here.

26:09Robert Croak:Where now with this$63 ,000 offer that does align more with your interests, is it at a company that you believe is going to be around in five years or 10 years from now, right? Or is it a startup that just raised their Series A funding and they're trying to hire people so they could grow, but the real, like who knows? So that's another thing I would, I would really weigh. But if it's like apples to apples comparison between well-established company A and well-established company B and well-established company A is paying your student loans. If you leave, you got to pay back the 9 ,500 bucks to go make literally so much more money at well-established company B.

26:43Robert Croak:I would pay back the money you owe. You've got the cash. You don't have to go into debt for it. It's in your high yield savings account. I would then start this new job. I would live on the exact same budget I've been living on as if I was making 51. So this extra thousand dollars a month, now you're making pre-tax, let's call it 800 bucks a month post-tax, who knows? That all goes back into replenishing the high yield savings. And once it's back to that 17 ,000, you are going to be in a situation where you are saving and investing almost a thousand dollars a month more now at 26 or 27 years old, depending on, I guess, where you are and where your birthday lies on the calendar when you take this job, you're going to be in a great situation.

27:21Robert Croak:Super, super excited for you. I would take the new job. And then also, Robert, what else should Jacob think about as it relates to like moving jobs? You know, there's a lot that goes into that. It's not just your compensation, but also like 401k match is important. There's also benefits to consider. There's also the commute to consider, the work environment. There's a lot. So maybe, Robert, you should talk about that.

27:46Austin Hankwitz:Yeah, we talked about this earlier when we saw this question, and that is you have to consider everything when you're changing roles in changing companies, because the new company right now might have free parking. And you just pull up and you go into your office and you go to your job and it's great. But did you check the job offer company, the new company that's going to give you more? Do they have free parking? It may sound like nothing, but if you think about it, what if this new parking costs you$50 a week? You have to take that into consideration. Then you have to look at, like Austin alluded to, 401k.

28:18Austin Hankwitz:Does the current company give you a 4 % match and the next company does not? So make sure, just like when buying a home, you understand the total numbers of the decision. Think about gas prices. They're at all-time highs right now. What if your current job is a three-minute drive and the new job is an 18-minute drive with traffic? All of these things have to be in a consideration for your quality of life, but also other external spending that you have to do to get this additional$12 ,000 a year. So just make sure you consider everything about it to make sure it's the right decision.

28:54Robert Croak:And just to reiterate, Jacob, all of this falls apart if you inflate your lifestyle to match your new earnings. You eventually can do some of that, but only after you get the$17 ,000 back in your high yield savings and you are, you know, taking a couple hundred bucks more now a month and investing it. Like, you should inflate your lifestyle as you make more money. Like, I get that. That's cool. But you're not in a situation to do that right now, especially if you have to go pay back$9 ,500 and your emergency fund is depleted. So pay back your emergency fund, weigh all the options here. We've tried to help you think through all the different scenarios, and we're wishing you the best.

29:29Robert Croak:Congrats on the new job offer. That's actually really, really exciting, especially as we hear all the looming, scary headlines of jobs kind of going away because of AI. Now, before we jump to our next question, speaking of AI, did you know that public uses AI to create generated assets, which are essentially strategies that align with your specific investing theses and interests? You can say, I want to invest in companies that are building data centers in 2026, right? What's the infrastructure behind that? And it will find you all the companies of all the value stack of the components, the wiring, the networking, the switches, and it'll find all those companies for you.

30:07Robert Croak:And it'll put your money into data center companies, or maybe something to do with water. A lot going on right now in the Middle East. We've heard about some sanitation stuff, you know, with the Strait of Hormuz and things of that nature. perhaps you want to invest in sanitation companies in the Middle East. Anything, anything you think about, you can just type it in to generated assets on public.com. And you can say, I want to invest in ABC. It's going to use AI to find those things for you and then make it easy and automatic to invest consistently into those strategies. So go to public.com slash rich habits to earn an uncapped 1 % bonus.

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30:47Austin Hankwitz:Yeah, we've been talking about public for years. We've worked with them for a very long time and they just create the best tools out there to help the everyday retail investor figure out what to do with their money and what to invest in. So make sure you check out public.com.

31:02Robert Croak:So David is our next email. David B. David says, hi, Austin and Robert. I'm a new listener after discovering Austin on the Money Guy show. Let's go, David. David, thanks so much. A little collab crossover there. If you've not yet watched my episode with Brian and Bo from The Money Guys, definitely go do that. I think it's on YouTube. Go check that one out. David says, I have thoroughly enjoyed the podcast thus far and the content that you guys provide. My question's related to a rollover. I'm 31 years old. My wife is 29. We live in California, have an estimated net worth of$950 ,000. Holy smokes.

31:35Robert Croak:Good for y 'all. That's a lot of money to have, that 31 and 29. That's incredible. David says, we have a combined salary of$300 ,000. I've worked in government for nine years and my wife works in sales. I plan to leave the public sector at the end of the year to pursue a career in finance. My retirement accounts have the following. $47 ,000 in an IRA,$82 ,000 in a Roth 401k,$91 ,000 in a Roth 457b, and$162 ,000 in a defined benefit plan, the CalPERS pension plan. My pension plan formula is a retirement formula at 2.7 % at 57 years old. I'll have almost 10 years of service when I leave my current job, so I will collect 27 % of my salary once I turn age 57.

32:20Robert Croak:Calculation on this comes out to$3 ,500 a month subject to inflation. My pension plan provides the option to roll over this$162 ,000 to an IRA. With my retirement being 25 years away, am I better rolling over the$162 ,000 into an IRA that I can control and invest in myself? Or should I just leave the money in the pension plan and collect the guaranteed benefits at 57 of 3 ,500 bucks per month? Thank you for your time. And I love the show. What a, first off, just cool situation to be in. 950 ,000 at 31 in 29. I mean, you, as the money guy show would say, you're definitely a financial mutant. Good for you.

33:00Robert Croak:That's a lot of money in your net worth. Awesome salary. You are crushing it right now. So the crux of the question, right? Hey guys, I've got$162 ,000 in this pension plan. I'm guaranteed to make$3 ,500 a month when I retire at$57 ,000. Do I leave it, let it grow however the pension plan might grow to get that$3 ,500 a month? Or do I roll it over into an IRA, an account that I have autonomy over, invest it how I want, and see what happens, see if that's a better outcome. So Robert and I, we actually sat on this one for a little bit and we really wanted to give you a good answer. So we did the math for you.

33:40Robert Croak:I'm sure you've done this math yourself, but we're kind of just, this is important math. And for people listening, like you got to think about the opportunity cost because that's what this is, Robert. It's an opportunity cost question. Do I keep in the pension plan? And if so, what's the opportunity cost of not rolling it over into that IRA? So if you roll over that$162 ,000 into an IRA and you have autonomy over it. And that$162 ,000 from age 31 to 57, because that's the apples to apples comparison here for that 26 years, if it grows at 7 % of a real annual return after inflation, which we think is super doable over the next 26 years, it'll be worth about$950 ,000.

34:20Robert Croak:An 8 % real return, which is also pretty doable with inflation and what the stock market is, right? 1.2 million. And at a 10 % real return, which is pretty aggressive, but still worth mentioning here, $1.9 million. So at a 7%, 8 % rate, we're talking about a million, a million one that's going to be in this IRA at age 57. Now you're saying, okay, cool. So I've got a million bucks, a million one like that. That's exciting at 57. But what does that mean for me? And how do I compare that to the pension? Because the pension pays monthly, the IRA is just a lump sum of money. Well, Robert, that's where the 4 % rule comes in.

34:59Robert Croak:We talk about the Trinity study all the time. This is a very important study that was done at Trinity University where they tried to figure out, assuming a 60-40 split between equities and fixed income, right? So stock market and bonds, how much money do I need to have invested to withdraw 4 % every single year and not run out of money for like 30 years? So the 4 % withdrawal rate is what you want to be thinking about here for that IRA. What does that translate into and how does that compare to the pension? Your pension is$3 ,500 a month at 57, which is about$42 ,000 a year, which means at a 4 % withdrawal rate, you need about a million dollars to withdraw the 42 ,000.

35:40Robert Croak:You see what I did there? 4 % of a million is that 42 ,000 or so. So if you annualize 7 % to 8 % returns between now and the next 26 years, which over a long period of time, I think you certainly will, you will break even against this pension. So anything above that is now gravy. Now, here's why I believe you should roll it over. There's I'm sure a lot of little specific nuances when it comes to pensions in California and like things that I don't know here. So I'm not going to pretend I do. But when somebody dies, and they have an IRA, their heirs, their beneficiaries get that money. They get the total value of that IRA.

36:19Robert Croak:And if your IRA at 57 is worth$1.1 million, and maybe you don't want to withdraw against it, you just want to let it grow, right? It's going to double and triple in value and quadruple in value over your life here. There could be a world where you tragically pass away in your late 50s, early 60s, much of the pension plan is lost, right? Where if it was in an IRA, all of it would go to your beneficiaries. So in my opinion, I think the best way to approach this is to have the autonomy, roll it over to an IRA, park it into index funds and ETFs, let it grow over time. Don't get fancy, right? Just let it grow low cost index funds and you will be 57 with a million or a million two, depending on what the market does.

37:00Robert Croak:You can do your 4 % rule if you want, or can continue to grow over time. And what's going to happen is when you pass away, you will have this account, this massive nest egg that will be then given to someone else in your family, your beneficiaries, if it's your wife, your children, whatever, where when it comes to a pension, I'm sure there's some percentage of it that would go to a wife, you know, a spouse or a child maybe. But I don't think, I truly could be wrong here, but I don't think it's the full 100%.

37:26Austin Hankwitz:That is an incredible breakdown. I'm just going to layer a little bit more on it. I love the fact that you called out the IRA goes directly to the spouse or to the family or whoever is assigned to be the heir if something were to happen, whereas that doesn't happen with the pension. I don't know what percentage of the pension value would go to them, but it's definitely not 100%. But also something else in the math that I really like that you broke down is you were calculating this based on 7 % or 8 % over this 26-year period, whereas traditionally the S &P 500 many, many times is going to be more like 9%, 10%, or 11 % year over year.

38:06Austin Hankwitz:So there is additional funds there. that would outweigh it being a break even between the pension and the Roth and going it alone. But then I think the most important thing for me here is we don't know the long-term funding concerns or issues that could happen with a CalPERS plan, with the government. Things change, they're insolvent, and all of a sudden that money starts to go away or you get way less. So I love it. I agree with Austin 100%. I'd squirrel the money away. I would do the IRA. You have total control and autonomy so you can build it out the way you want, have total control over it, and be able to know you get all of it in the end.

38:50Austin Hankwitz:God forbid if something were to happen.

38:52Robert Croak:Yes, I'm doing a bit of research live here on the pension survivor, what percentage. So there's, I guess, the option to take and offer 100 % of the pension to a spouse if you pass away, but your monthly payments that you're, that you are receiving the 3 ,500 is much less, where if you give them 50 % when you pass away, it's, it's more. So I don't know if you chose the 50 or the a hundred percent with this$3 ,500 example. So I guess you can run some numbers against that as well with the 4 % rule, but regardless, it's like, okay, it goes to your spouse. What about your children? What about your children's children, right?

39:32Robert Croak:Like we're talking about generational wealth here is what we're trying to build. And I think, again, even now knowing this information still, I would still lean toward, very much lean toward rolling that 100 in, I think it was$62 ,000. Yeah,$162 ,000 into an IRA, having it be with an advisor, like whatever is going to just earn 7, 8, 9, 10 % over a long period of time. You don't want to have these knee-jerk reactions, right? It's one thing to say, oh yeah, I got money and a pension, but like I can't touch it. It's another thing to say, I got$162 ,000 here. Technically, I can touch it. I just get, oh, I need to go buy a boat.

40:05Robert Croak:What do we do? Kitchen remodel, right? Whatever, right? Just make sure you don't fall for that. So our last question comes from Ian N on Instagram. Ian says, hi, Austin and Robert. My name's Ian. I'm 18 and I just discovered your show. I love it and I'm learning a ton. I'd recently got a student loan Discover credit card, trying to build some credit, as well as putting money into the stock market like the S &P 500, looking for some of those long-term investments. I'm also working two jobs this summer. I'm attending college in the fall at my state school and I'm majoring in business. However, I'm very worried about the rise of AI in the business field.

40:41Robert Croak:Although I haven't chosen a specific concentration right now, which is broad business, I'm open to anything in the business field. I wanted to get your opinion on AI and the impact on finance and business jobs in the workforce and how it could impact my future, as well as any tips for my major so I can continue to grow wealth through a young age. Robert and I put our heads together before this episode and we looked at, so the state school that I went to, which was the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, go Vols. We looked at their majors and all the different concentrations and stuff. And we came up with what we thought are top three majors that are like AI proof.

41:15Robert Croak:So we'll give you those here at the end. But before we do that, yes, business. Robert, Talk about how AI is just going to continue to disrupt finance, business, all that stuff.

41:27Austin Hankwitz:Yeah, I think it is the most important transition we're making in the next 10 years is right now. Because if people just lay in the weeds and don't get ahead of this and think about what should I be doing different to stay ahead of the curve in AI, it's going to be problematic. And in my opinion, I think finance, I think legal in a lot of these white collar jobs are going to get wrecked over the next two, three, four or five years because all the learning and all of the pass through of learning is going to be negligible and not really have value anymore. And it's going to be the people at the top.

42:06Austin Hankwitz:They're going to be able to maintain their jobs. But most of the people coming out of college in finance and legal and stuff like that, there just isn't going to be a place for them. And I think there's going to be less and less jobs for those people. So I think everyone listening to this podcast, especially if you're younger and you're getting a degree, you should really be looking at, is this degree going to have any value when it's finished in three, four, five years? And if the answer is doubtful or no, then I would pivot right away to a degree that we believe is going to still have tremendous value down the road because AI is here.

42:42Austin Hankwitz:Robotics are here. All of these things are happening. and you just need to get ahead of it. And I think finance is one degree that I would not get moving forward because you can go in and find all the information as if you're getting it from a top level, the best financial people on earth, right in Claude or ChatGPT or any of the AI platforms that are available now. So that's my biggest concern and what I would look at if I were someone like Ian here that's thinking about a finance degree.

43:12Robert Croak:Yeah, so finance, I would not get a finance degree. I agree with you, right? Because finance degrees, you can do essentially three things with. You could work as an investment banker, which I would argue a lot of those analyst and associate roles are now being maybe not augmented, but certainly enhanced with AI. I've seen a lot of Excel. I mean, that's all you're doing is putting data into an Excel spreadsheet and then creating a presentation on PowerPoint or whatever. And I think a lot of that's going to get automated and done with AI, at least enhanced, right? So investment banking, I feel like is something that AI is definitely going to disrupt, especially for those entry level roles.

43:46Robert Croak:Next thing you can do with a finance degree is be a wealth manager, be a financial advisor. I think a lot of the financial advisory roles will definitely be needed, but information is free. Information is abundant. And as you think about the next four, six, 10, 12 years of your life, which is like you're early in your career, you're rocking and rolling. Like I don't think being a wealth manager is going to be that big home run for you. I think a lot of people are going to be able to, if it's with AI and wealth management, robo advisors, like there's going to be a lot of like transformation there.

44:17Robert Croak:So again, wealth manager, I don't think there's really like a crazy cool career with that. I mean, yeah, sure. You can like go work at a Ameriprise or, you know, something like that inherent or buy a book of business, whatever. But I just, it's not that AI proof, if that makes sense. And then the other one is like FP &A, financial planning and analysis you can do, which is what I did out of college. And I would argue that job is going to just be super disrupted. If I was looking for the job that I was hired to do out of college right now, I doubt that anyone would be hiring for it because so much of it could be disrupted by AI.

44:50Robert Croak:So those are like the three main paths for a finance business, right? Major. And I think all of them are super, super disruptible with AI. We just saw Anthropics CEO, actually, this was several months ago, but Anthropics Claude, right? CEO Dario said 50 % of entry-level white-collar jobs within the next one to five years will be completely displaced. Think about that. 50 % between now and 2030, let's call it, they just won't exist because companies will be able to be so much more efficient without human labor and using these AI tools and platforms and things to augment a lot of this white collar work.

45:31Robert Croak:We're seeing that with OpenClaw. We're seeing that with Perplexity Computer. We're seeing that with all the cool things that are going on right now. and it's just 2026, you're 18. You haven't even gone through college yet, right? You got four more years. So Robert and I put our heads together and we thought, okay, what majors, if I was, I literally asked Robert, I said, Robert, if you were going to college, what majors would you be studying right now to be AI proof, right? What would be those specific majors or concentrations that you think are gonna be there in four years, 10 years, 15 years down the road?

46:02Robert Croak:Because who knows what's gonna happen after that. But Robert, I'll let you go with your three and then explain why, and I'll share my three as well, and we'll go from there.

46:09Austin Hankwitz:I just want to say before I answer, this episode is giving me chills because it is so in-depth and so awesome, and these are all questions from our audience, so we just love this. I really do love it. It's very emotional for me because it's so important for people to figure this out. So my three that I told Austin would be nuclear engineering, something because I want to specialize in where I believe energy is going with nuclear and fission and all of that stuff. So nuclear engineering. I think cybersecurity is still going to be really good things that you can be in that field because we're going to need more and more of it.

46:46Austin Hankwitz:And then last for me would be biomedical engineering, like right in the healthcare technology sector, because as we get more and more efficient and medicines become better and better and equipment becomes better, people are going to live longer and we're going to need more and more talent in that field because of how much longer I believe people are going to live in the future.

47:08Robert Croak:There we go. I think all three of those are great. My three AI proof jobs. The first one's nursing. I do not think that humanoid robots, I just don't think we're going to see those in hospitals in the next 10 to 15 years, maybe 20 years from now. Who knows? I genuinely cannot predict that far into the future with how fast things have changed. But I think nurses are definitely going to be needed for the next decade or two. So I think nursing is pretty locked down. Electrical engineering, this kind of complements the nuclear engineering, the data centers, the infrastructure. You know, we've got such an old and dilapidated grid.

47:42Robert Croak:You've heard about the grid here in the United States. I think if we're going to have to upgrade the grid, a lot of electrical engineering is going to take place there. So electrical engineering would be something to study. And then the last one, I'm thinking AI proof, pre-dentistry, go become a dentist, a DDS, right? I don't know about you, but I'd be very surprised if in the next 10 to 20 years, we're going to have humanoid dentists that are poking around in my teeth. Like, I just don't think that's going to be a thing. I truly think that being a dentist, you're pretty good for the next decade or two, just like you are for nursing.

48:12Robert Croak:It's interesting, right? Healthcare. Think about that healthcare side of it and how important it is to humans and just how hard it will be for AI. You know, we think about embodied AI, right? Because right now, if you think about what's going on with Dario's statement of 50 % of all entry level jobs, that's very much a white collar. If you're doing it on the computer, it can get displaced because anything humans are doing on computers right now, open claw just proved this, perplexity just proved this, AI can do it too. Full stop. I don't care what you do on a computer, AI can do your job if you do it on a computer.

48:43Robert Croak:But that's not yet happened with embodied AI. It's getting cute and sexy with the Waymo and the self-driving and like the figure and the Aptronic and the unitry. Like it's cool. It's fun. It's like, I think we're a decade away from having a humanoid robot take care of me bedside if I go to the hospital or, or a humanoid robot poking his fingers in my mouth as a dentist, right? I think we're at least a decade away from that. I could be wrong, but if I was going into college right now and I had to pick a major, those are my three nursing, electrical engineering, because the grid needs upgrading, and dentistry.

49:15Austin Hankwitz:And the only pro tip I would add to this that we didn't really talk about would be maybe there's a world where it makes sense to get ahead of real world assets and tokenization and you could go get like an MBA or degree in cryptology and blockchain. So you understand and you could be one of these advisors for companies that are integrating blockchain and crypto into their ecosystem and into their financial guardrails within their company, if you will. So that's another one as a pro tip that I would throw in.

49:44Robert Croak:Everybody, thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Rich Habits podcast question and answer edition. Do not forget seven day free trial at the Rich Habits Network, seven day free trial for wallstreetfavorites.com. Go see what Wall Street thinks about the stocks in your own portfolio, what hedge funds are buying and selling them, what analysts are upgrading and downgrading them, giving them specific price targets, all that stuff. Wallstreetfavorites.com. A ton of the website's completely free, but if you upgrade to premium, seven-day free trial, no charges to your account for seven days.

50:14Robert Croak:I mean, literally, it's the most no-brainer thing ever. You should go check out Wall Street Favorites. It's awesome. We built it for you guys, and we're super, super grateful.

50:22Austin Hankwitz:I think Wall Street Favorites is the best aggregator cheat code for people to figure out what they should be investing in, what their portfolio looks like. Is it the right balance of what they should own? I really love it. and I think everyone should check it out. And there is that seven day free trial. Thank you guys all for stopping by each and every week. We love all of you. We appreciate the support and we're going to keep bringing you value like this every single week for many, many years to come.

50:51Robert Croak:With that being said, we'll see you guys tomorrow for our Friday episode of the Rich Habits Radar.

51:18We'll see you next time.

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