Q&A: Our New Credit Card Benefit Matrix, Investing a Windfall, and Margin Loans

0:00Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Rich Habits Podcast, the number one business podcast. on Spotify. That is as of today, February 6th, we were at number one. I think it was on Saturday. We hit number one and we've sustained it throughout the weekend and now into this new week. We are super grateful to be back at the number one spot. Robert, how does it make you feel knowing that you're the co-host of a number one business podcast? Well, it was perfect timing because I was in Southern California for the hundred million mastermind this weekend. I was a guest speaker and I got to brag it up and I did it in a way that was so funny.

0:35I was asked the question of what am I most excited about right now and what am I working on? I told them the two or three things and I said, oh, and by the way, I have the number one podcast in all the land on Spotify called Rich Habits. And everyone was like, no way. And it was just exciting. So definitely just a testament to the fact that people just really love how we present the information, how we break it down in a way where there's no gatekeeping. And we're really just trying to bring as much value as we can to everyone that listens. So very, very big weekend for us. And so excited. Super, super grateful to each and every one of the 75 ,000 of you that come back every week to listen to what Robert and I have to say.

1:19And Robert, I don't know if you remember this, but our one year birthday anniversary episodes coming up here at the end of February. So we're going to have to scheme on some fun way to celebrate that here with our audience. Maybe we do another$1 ,000 giveaway. Who knows? Ooh, that sounds fun. Yeah, we definitely have to celebrate that. I'm very grateful for everyone that has followed along on this journey. And I'm really appreciative because we try really hard to bring great value to all of you. Absolutely. And if you want to continue to receive that great value, there's a link in the description below to a Google form.

1:53You just have to add your email address, your first name, and you get an email. about every week throughout the month of February, we'll be talking about optimizing your credit card spend. We're going to be talking about what card to use, what to buy with the card, how to get the cash back, the points, the free vacations, all that fun stuff. So be sure to share your email with us and opt in. Now, before we jump into this episode of the Rich Habits podcast, let's take a minute to hear from our title sponsor, Public.com. As you all might know, Public.com is the all-in-one investing platform, but now they've launched options trading.

2:26And with it, they're doing something no other brokerage has ever done before. Public is sharing 50 % of their options trading revenue directly with you, the customer. So whenever you trade options on Public, you get something back. And of course, there are no commissions or per contract fees. By sharing 50 % of their options revenue, you'll know exactly how much they make from your options trades, because Public is literally giving you half of it. In other words, it's a more transparent approach to options with no fees, and you'll get something back on every single trade. So go to public.com, activate the options trading by March 31st to lock in your lifetime rebate.

3:06There's going to be a link in the show notes below to go check out public.com slash rich habits. It is our specific landing page. You can learn more all about the different products there. So definitely go check that out. And just as a quick reminder, this was paid for by public investing. You must activate an options account by March 31st for that revenue share. And of course, options are not suitable for all investors and do carry significant risk. If you want to read the full disclosure, it's going to be in the podcast description. And as always, this is for US members only. Now, with that being said, let's jump into our first question from K-Ton.

3:38K-Ton says, hey, y 'all, I got a question for the podcast. I have a 30 year time horizon until my retirement and I'm very bullish on US index funds. Why not go ultra levered on TQQQ to maximize my potential returns knowing I have a long investment horizon? What am I missing here? This is a really good question, Robert. And let's kind of break things down here just to make sure everyone's on the same page because when I first read this, I was also kind of confused here. So what's going on here is TQQQ is the name of an ETF that this person wants to invest in because this ETF uses leverage or debt to get three times the upside potential in stock price against the NASDAQ while also receiving three times the downside potential if we do have a red day or a big downdraft like we saw in 2022.

4:28So the question here from Catan is very much focused on, listen guys, I'm okay to see that up and down. I've got a 30-year investment horizon. Shouldn't I have all my leverage in these big, big potential home run opportunities? And to that, I give you the answer of, well, kinda. I mean, I could understand adding some exposure of TQQQ to someone's portfolio if they are super excited about the NASDAQ and they are okay with the big ups as well as the big downs. I mean, just for perspective here, the stock went from 80 down to 20 during that spare market we saw in 2022, while the NASDAQ only went down about 25 % there.

5:06So you're really losing about 80 % of your portfolio if we do see a downdraft. But again, Catan, if you want that volatility, be my guest. Just please be careful, know what you're getting yourself into. And again, this is not something I have in my own portfolio. However, I think I might add a little bit to one of my retirement accounts. Yeah, I love this question. And we always say in the Rich Habits podcast and on our lives and in our content, when in doubt, zoom out. So Austin's already shared with you the ups and the downs. You're getting it three times on the performance upside and the performance downside.

5:38And because you're 30 years old, you do have a long time horizon for retirement. So adding some additional risk can sometimes just be a great move. So the way to look at it is if you were to zoom out right now, QQQ has had a return of about 150 % in the last five years. Then if you zoom out to TQQQ, they're at around 364 % for the last five years. So over double. So if you believe we're going to continue to go into this bull market in the next year, two, three years and continue up into the right, it can be a great strategy. I just wouldn't recommend it for those faint at heart or that are more risk averse than you are.

6:20That's my take on it. I love the sentiment, but just be careful. Really good question, Katan. And just to remind everyone, we're getting these questions from the public.com application. Robert and I both post over there pretty consistently. And if you want to ask us a question that's definitely going to make it onto the podcast, go to public.com, check out our posts, follow us, of course, and be sure to comment your questions over there as well. Now, our next question comes from Matt B. Matt says, hey, guys, I love the podcast. I've got a question regarding my 401k and my employer's match. My employer matches 3.5 % of my contribution, which requires me to contribute around 6 % to get the full match from them.

6:59Are you all suggesting that I should stop getting a match from my employer? I'm already maxing out my Roth IRA. I have my 401k and I also have a brokerage account full of the index funds you all talk about. I guess I'm asking, should I contribute more to my 401k or keep the additional money and put it in my traditional brokerage account? Matt, what a really good question here, man. And here's again, just for everyone to better understand what we talk about and what we think the priority should be for invested capital. Match beats Roth beats taxable, right? So match. If you can get free money from your employer, which to you, you're saying you can contribute 6%, you get the free money and that gets you that three and a half percent.

7:37Great. 6 % goes over here to the 401k. You get the free money. Next, you're maxing out the Roth IRA. You're doing that already, which is awesome, Matt. And then finally, what we say here is if you have autonomy over your 401k and you're able to choose your investments specifically, then it is okay to go back to the 401k and max that out before putting extra funds into the taxable brokerage account on public.com. The reason why we say autonomy is because a lot of people, unfortunately, are pigeonholed into these underperforming target date funds that they don't even know what are inside of them, or they're putting these weird mutual funds or whatever the heck is going on in these funds, right?

8:16And when they zoom out and look to what Robert's saying here, zoom out and see what it's done in relation to the S &P 500, it's underperformed year after year after year after year. And people then look at their 401k and say, wait, I only made a 6 % return the last five years. What's going on? And it's like, oh my goodness. So people think, you know, oh, I'm going to invest all this money into my 401ks. Therefore, I'm going to have a great retirement, but in actuality, by taking that same money and putting it into an index fund like VOO or QQQ on a taxable brokerage account, they're way outperforming what they think would be in a 401k here.

8:50So Matt, just want to help you understand that it's cool to max out the 401k. It's not cool to max out the 401k and underperform the market throughout your investing career. Yeah, Austin, you killed that answer. And I just want to add a little bit more to it. And basically, Matt is that and anyone listening is to understand, know what you have in your 401k, understand your ability to have any kind of autonomy in your 401k before you put any additional funds in it. We always want you to get the free money, but we also want you to be aware that if it's underperforming, then you just want to get that match of the free money and everything else is going to go elsewhere because we don't want you to have more percentage of your money and your net worth in these underperforming assets.

9:36So that is why Austin broke it down the way he did and did a tremendous job. It's very important for everyone listening to take notes on this part because it'll make a huge, huge difference in your retirement portfolio as years go by. Yeah, I mean, here's something people should be doing every quarter, but I mean, it's a new year here in February. Go look at your 401k performance. If you've been employed at X employer here for the last couple of years, go log into that Wells Fargo, Bank of America, whatever they got going on, click total performance and compare that now to the performance of the S &P 500.

10:10Now, of course, if you're older in your 50s or 60s, you might have a less aggressive investing style, which is totally okay to underperform the S &P if that's the case, but our average listener is in their 30s and 40s. So if that's you, you've got another 20, 30, 40 years ahead of you here to invest. So I'm assuming you want to perform in standard with the S &P 500. So log into your account and go check that out. So our next question comes from RM. He says, Hi, Austin and Robert. I really enjoy the podcast because it's very educational. It's the single source for all the information that I need to start my wealth building journey.

10:41RM, thank you so much, man. So RM essentially goes on to say that I've been saving over$50 ,000 now in a high yield savings account, but I want to move that money now into the stock market by investing into the index funds that you all preach. However, I'm not sure if I should invest that in small increments every week or put the whole lump sum into these indices all at once. In the beginning, I started to invest into these small increments. However, I realized that as the stock market started creeping up, I kind of got a little bit of FOMO and I wanted to put more and more in. So please let me know your approach on this situation.

11:13Robert, you want to kick this off? I would love to. Aram, great question. Thanks for all the detail. So how I would look at this is as follows. $50 ,000, I'm glad you have it in high yield savings, but you're also missing out on a lot of opportunity by having that much put aside. So the first move I would do is to understand the difference between having a windfall and chunking it all into the market at once versus dollar cost averaging, which we speak about all the time. So in your situation, I would probably do a hybrid. I would look at maybe leaving 10 ,000, 15 ,000 in the high yield savings, maybe take 25 ,000 and immediately get it in through a Roth IRA and I would get the Roth IRA maxed out.

11:56And then with the additional, I would have a traditional brokerage account to buy those baskets of funds that you mentioned. And then you could dollar cost average the rest of the 50K to get it out there and get it working and making money. So as you look at that, it's great to have that 5 % from a high yield savings account, but you also don't want to leave money on the table if you have the opportunity to maximize those earnings, which you likely will with the VOOs and the QQQs and the SCHDs of the world. So there's a lot of funds out there that are performing well right now. And I would just like to see you get more of it in there.

12:34So the way I look at it is this. Dollar cost average is meant for people that are taking monthly amounts that they earn and putting it into their investment accounts. If you have a larger sum that is a windfall or an inheritance or something like that, it's okay to chunk it all into the markets quickly because we want to understand that we want to maximize the earnings from that money. And just some additional color here too as well, Robert, something I do personally is every year, right when we start the new year, right? I already did this in 2024. I max out my Roth IRA and I invest all of it all in once right into the markets, right?

13:12Because this is not money I need until well into the future. And if I had made the mistake of instead maxing it out with that 7 ,000 in cash and maybe only investing 600 bucks a month throughout all of 2023, well, I wouldn't be fully invested to realize the total 26 % return the S &P 500 delivered last year, right? So I think just, especially if you have a long investment horizon here, RM, it's very simple. I love what Robert said, drop a bunch of money in there, forget about it, let it roll with the index funds. And if you want to do a little bit of hybrid model, maybe drop half in there and dollar costs average of the half in case you're scared.

13:45So that's how I approach things, it allows me to always see the total upside return throughout that year, especially again, if it's a long-term investment horizon. If I don't need the money for several years, I'm good. And another thing I'd like to add, because as these episodes grow bigger and bigger, the Q &A episodes, always remember it helps us analyze and give you the best educated information we can when you include your age. Keep that in mind because it helps us understand the time horizons better when asking these questions. What a wonderful call out. Yeah. I mean, RM, like, dude, if you're in your sixties, maybe you shouldn't throw, you know what I'm saying?

14:25Like maybe it's a different approach here. So what a good call out there, Robert. Yeah. There's just not a one size fits all. I know a lot of the fake gurus out there want to say that you can just do X, Y, Z in their course and become rich. And it really isn't a one size fits all. And that's why the more information you can provide us in your questions, the better off we can serve you in answering them. Now, our next question comes from Key S. This is actually a really good question, Robert. I'm excited to dive in. Key says he has two questions. First, what is your general opinion on margin loans and if or when to use them?

15:01So let's start by answering that one, Robert. What is a margin loan? A margin loan is using your taxable brokerage account as collateral, borrowing money against that to then go and invest into other assets, right? So it's like, let's say you have$100 ,000 in your taxable brokerage account, you borrow$30 ,000 against that, and you take that$30 ,000 to go all in on a specific stock or ETF or something else. It's essentially going into debt to invest. For me, it's not something I would do personally, I would rather just invest and not be in debt to invest. I know some people do it as a way to make levered bets, like these big, crazy bets.

15:39We talked about TQQQ, right? It's a levered bet on the NASDAQ. So margin loans are something I don't think that 99 % of the investing Americans here need to be worried about. It's something hedge funds do. It's something these professional investors do. And it's not something that I would tell my mom to go out and do for sure. But Robert, did you have an opinion on margin loans? Great answer, Austin. And I will just add one more piece of information to this. I don't use margin loans either, unless there is an emergency situation. What does that mean? So for me, let's say I see something in the markets that happens overnight or first thing in the morning, and I need to make a bet and I want to make an investment into something, but I don't have the cash sitting to get into the account.

16:21I will sometimes use margin in that instance, because what I don't want to do is miss an opportunity, knowing that I'm in a good position cash wise, it just may take a few days to get it in there. So that's the only time I will use margin. And I suggest that would be for other people because I see so many people using margin loans on bad investments. They get wrecked and then their accounts get shut down. They end up owing money that they end up putting on credit cards and all sorts of other bad things. So just be careful when using margin. 100 % again, I wouldn't tell my mom to do it. And she's a nice 71 year old lady.

16:57There's no reason that all these people should be using margin to invest, right? Take real cash, invest it that way. And if you're like Robert, where you have multi trillion dollar investment opportunities, then maybe a little bit of margins on a bad idea, right, Robert? I hear you. I'm not at that level yet, but we're working on it. Now, Key's second question is I'm considering taking out additional margin to pay off high interest credit card debt. I use M1 Finance. I currently have$160 ,000 in assets and$30 ,000 in margin debt. I would prefer to not sell my assets. I followed your advice and I invested $20 ,000 into SPYI.

17:34And I figure if I bump up that amount, I could use the dividend return to pay off my M1 Finance 7 % interest margin loan. What do you guys think? What a great kind of like puzzle that this guy has pulled together, right? Like, okay, you're in$30 ,000 in margin debt. Let's assume that you're in margin debt for other high interests. Like it was a good reason why, right? Let's just assume that you're not silly here and that margin debt is legit. Now going further into margin debt to consolidate 30 % high interest credit card debt, I think is a really good idea because again, you have this 7 % interest rate.

18:08Let's say you have, I don't know,$30 ,000 more of credit card debt that you're trying to consolidate. Well, at 30 % interest, that's nearly$10 ,000 a year in interest just to keep the debt around, where at 7%, it's only$2 ,100. So way less than that$10 ,000, allowing you to take that$8 ,000 and chuck it at the principal to get out of debt. I think this is a solid strategy as a debt consolidation perspective. Now, to your point of using SPYI to pay off the margin debt, so$20 ,000 in SPYI is going to yield you about$2 ,000 a year in dividend distributions, and you're alluding to using that$2 ,000 to pay off the debt here as the price of SPYI begins to tick higher.

18:52Listen, dude, I would do it. I mean, that's not a bad idea, right? I've heard worse ideas. And you're in this situation because you've kind of done this crazy, you know, kind of puzzling together of weird situations. Like, That's fine. I like this way, though, of getting out of the situation because it allows you to do two things. Lower your interest rate on your debt dramatically from 30 % to 7%. And two, not have to sell your assets, right? We always want to make sure our money is working for us. And so by keeping invested, by staying invested into these assets, your money will continue to tick higher in value as you pay off this margin debt with money afforded to you by your assets.

19:33I get it, man. It's not that bad of an idea. So let me take a shot at this. Everyone listening and following along knows I talk about positive arbitrage on a daily basis. And in this instance, assuming these debts are 30 percent and the M1 finance interest rate is only seven and a half percent. So you have this large margin of positive arbitrage in your favor. I love it. This is thinking out of the box and thinking smart. But also something to think about here in this strategy for everyone listening is by keeping the assets, you're also not dealing with a taxable event by selling them to pay off these debts.

20:08So that is another portion of this that adds to the benefit side of you and the positive arbitrage. So there is a lot to this puzzle that you've created in this question. And I like every bit of it because you're really thinking hard about making your money work as hard for you as you work to get it. and I wish more people did that. So everyone following along, I love this question and take notes. Yeah. Couldn't have said it better myself. I mean, seriously, this guy is going to be able to lower his interest rate. He's not going to have a taxable event and he's going to be able to use his assets, right?

20:41Not have to sell them, use his assets to pay off his debt. I mean, God, what a good job by keys. Now, before we jump into our next question, Robert, we got this really nice DM from a woman named Liz S. And I just wanted to share it real quick with our audience to kind of act as encouragement and to let people know that there are other people in your similar situations and shoes that are beginning to take notes and take action because of the Rich Habits podcast. Liz says, good afternoon. I'm 36 years old and I've been saving in a traditional savings account my whole life. But because I started listening to your podcast, I finally feel comfortable and decided to take the leap to start investing.

21:18I've invested$20 ,000 so far on public.com, and I'm so excited for my future. Robert, I just got goosebumps. I mean, dude, this is so fun. It was just so cool when we get these types of letters where people allude to what they've learned from us, how it has changed their lives and their careers and their business lives. And it's just so rewarding that we get to do this every single day as our own careers by educating and enlightening others. So thank you so much, Liz S. It means a lot, and I appreciate all of you. Oh my goodness. I'm so excited, Robert. 2024 is going to be so much fun. Before we jump into our next question, I just want to remind everyone that public is officially the cheapest way to trade options.

22:02That's because they're doing something that no other brokerages have done before. They're sharing 50 % of their options revenue directly with you, the customer. Whenever you trade options on public, you get something back minimizing your transaction costs. So go to public.com and activate options trading before March 31st to lock in your lifetime rebate. Public.com, the cheapest way to trade options. Our next question comes from Brianne T. Brianne says, hi Austin and Robert, I love the podcast and you've been so, so helpful. I was wondering if you could speak about municipal bonds. I'm not even sure what questions to ask about them, but any and all information would be appreciated.

22:44And she even sent us a heart emoji. Oh, that's so sweet. Brianne T., that is a great question. And we don't talk about municipal bonds as much as we probably should. I think most of the people that own them own them for the tax benefits because you're tax exempt from federal and state taxes on your investment. The reason we don't talk about them a lot, Brianne, is because the returns on them are just much lower than many of the other vehicles we educate people on. So the average return right now in a municipal bond is like 4.3, 4.5 percent. So they're just not something that we look at as much because we're always trying to optimize our investment strategies for ourselves, our families and everyone that follows us along.

23:28So that's my take on muni bonds. It's not a bad thing because of the tax benefits, but it's not a great thing because of the lack of return on them. So that's my takeaway. Great question. And there's just not a lot more to it, but I hope that helps. Yeah. And just as a quick reminder too, I think public.com, yeah, I'm pretty sure actually, they actually released like a bonds product. I've not played around on it. Not going to pretend I have. Can't speak toward the bonds product here, but they released a bonds product that I believe allows people to invest into muni bonds, into corporate bonds, things like that.

24:02I'm again, only have T-bills. I'm not on the corporate bond, municipal bond rollercoaster here. So if you do jump on that, definitely keep Robert and I posted, which by the way, Robert, did I tell you my music royalty investment is up like 80 %? You remember that? We talked about that on episode like six months ago. Yeah. A couple of people in my private community, in the Money Mindset private community reached out to me recently and like, where do you guys find this? It was a couple of people that have followed me for a couple of years now and they're in the private community. And they were like, you guys just pull out these investment strategies that no one else is talking about.

24:38And we always win. And I'm like, that's because we actually do what we say. And we know what we're talking about. We're just not reading from Google or some other wannabe investment educator on TikTok or Instagram. So it's always great when we're right in a big way. And that's what I love about it. So yeah, that was a great investment. Yeah. I mean, public.com's got some crazy stuff over there in a good way. Obviously, we love public. But our last question here comes from Keys P. Keys says, I love your guys' podcast, capital L-O-V-E. Well, Keys, we love you back. Thank you so much for the support, my friend.