Gyles's diary, episode 19

0:00They say that less is more, so I'll be brief. Ah, you want more? You're getting it. This is More Rosebud. Welcome to it. Cue the music.

0:26Welcome to More Rosebud. I'm Giles. And because it's More Rosebud, we have more of the Rosebud team. In fact, we have the other half of the Rosebud team. That's Harriet Jane. How do things mean for you, Harriet? yes jolly good thanks jiles i've been down in my basement room which you visited where i keep all my material associated with my diary i keep all my my bits and pieces in memoirs boxes and the reason i've been down there this week is because i've been finding material to be part of the illustrations for my new biography of a.a milne you know i'm i've written this book about alan Alexander Milne, who famously wrote Winnie the Pooh.

1:11It's Winnie the Pooh centenary coming up next year. And I had some lovely correspondence with Christopher Robin, the real Christopher Robin. And I hadn't sort of dug it out or looked at it for years. And the picture editor for the book said, well, maybe we should have some of these letters in the book, maybe as end papers or something like that. So we went down into the basement and fortunately she was young and strong because she was able, inevitably, you've seen, these are boxes, one pile on top of the other. The box we needed for 1981, I think it was, was at the bottom of a pile. So there were about six boxes.

1:49Anyway, she, strapping girl, managed to lift the boxes off. And we found three really lovely and interesting letters from Christopher Robin that were encouraging from my point of view because I was writing a play at that time about him, Christopher Robin, and his family and his father and the creation of Winnie the Pooh. And these letters were very reassuring because they said, I think you've got my father about right. I think what you're... Yeah. So that was good. And then the next day, then she piled the boxes all back up. The next day, some people came from the Oxford Union, the debating society at Oxford University, which will feature in the diaries we're going to be reading over the next week or two.

2:33And they were wanting to make a video about the Oxford Union. And they've been talking to various former presidents of the Oxford Union, people like Michael Heseltine, who was president in the 1950s, politicians mostly. So I had to go down again and move all these boxes to find pictures and memorabilia from the Oxford Union, including some very funny correspondence with Fanny Craddock. Oh, yeah. The television chef. Anyway, these may all feature in the diaries. So I've been down in that room. But while I was down there, I didn't do what we have promised listeners we would do, was go back to my school days and find that file of letters.

3:15What I know, I filed every letter I received in the 1960s, mostly from these lovely girls who were writing, I don't get lost letters to me. Please cease and desist. Care of my solicitor. Yes. All writing very lovely, loving letters. Well, you read some of them out, didn't you? The letters that Sal sent you. Yeah. And I probably censored them because they were too... No, I didn't read... Oh, did you send... Are you being serious? No. I hope you didn't. No, I didn't. What we haven't read out was the intimate diary. I don't think we need to read that out. Was it called the secret diary? Yeah. I haven't looked at that.

3:55You can decide when we get down to look at those boxes whether it's suitable for broadcasting or whether it isn't. but I think we will want anyway to maybe share some of the letters because they might be quite fun yeah get a flavor of how young people wrote have you kept any of the letters from your teenage years yes I found loads of them during this house move yeah by the way how's the house move gone because you're now living in a b &b airbnb airbnb yes you know it's it's it's a lot of work isn't But being in the Airbnb is quite relaxing because it's a simple life, you know. Because moving house is supposed to be one of the great traumas, like a divorce or a bereavement.

4:37I know. That's what they say. I mean, are you feeling traumatised? You're not looking at it. Aren't I? No. It was hard work the week we did it, yeah. I probably am a bit traumatised, but, you know. So in the fullness of time. Almost and upwards, John. Almost and upwards. I shall read some of my teenage letters. Yeah. And you will read some of yours. Okay. The ones we've received. Because we didn't keep. I didn't keep carbon copies. I didn't know that 50 years, 60 years after the event, I would be sharing my childhood with the listening millions. No, but I found a letter I'd written, which I'd obviously written not to send.

5:10You know when you write letters as a sort of way of getting out some anger? Or maybe as a draft, in case you weren't able to send it. Yes, I can't remember. Was this to a boy? It was, and when I read it, I sort of remembered the fact that I had written this letter and that I wasn't sure whether I should send it. Anyway, I still have it, so I obviously never did send it. What was the setup? What was the situation? Well, it was during a protracted breakup with my big boyfriend at university. Oh, so you're 20, 21. Yeah, yeah. And he was the same sort of age. Yeah. And basically, what are you saying?

5:43Get lost? Or are you saying it's not working? How did you couch on this? Why are you angry with him? Because obviously we've been together, then we've broken up, then we've got back together, then we've broken up. We're trying to kind of extricate ourselves. But these things happen. Think of Prince William and Catherine. But I'm angry in this letter with the whole relationship. You know, I'm looking back over things. I'm saying, you never did this. You never did that. You know, there's a lot of that. It's not a very pleasant read. Anyway, so I was quite glad I didn't have loads of the letters I'd written.

6:14I was just reading things people had written to me. I'm quite intrigued. I think we do want to hear more about this. In the voice of time, we will. and indeed maybe today in today's episode i don't pre-read them before coming here so i don't know what's going to happen i know we're in 1968 yes so i'm going to be turning 20 this particular year meanwhile we've been getting some letters haven't we at rosebud towers yeah rosebud towers and um rosebud towers also known as grosvenor house yeah in park lane yeah where we're recording this or you can email it's just probably easier than fine sending letters to us here i'm only mentioning that because people occasionally send us presents it's nice actually when you get posts isn't it it's lovely when you get posts anyway it's grovel house park lane london is it sw1 or w1 it's w1 tea or something like that i can't remember well i'm drinking my tea so this is an email from someone called lindsay wilson which i thought i'd share because i know lots of people out there are dog lovers and i thought this would strike a chord with all the dog lovers this was oh because linda la plant it was very moving it was a wonderful episode it was a really good episode if you haven't heard it it's what it's a really highly recommended episode no wonder was she the person who created prime suspect yes what a page turner she i mean it was an amazing episode the way she tells the story is extraordinary yeah but we were all moved when i we're talking about sadness yeah when you talked about the death of her dog so please do do share So Lindsay Wilson was inspired to write to us after she heard that episode in which Linda, if you've heard it, she gets really moved when she speaks about this lovely dog she had that died quite suddenly.

7:52And Lindsay wrote to us about the death of her own dog. Dear Harriet and Giles, when I heard Linda LaPlante talking about her grief for her beloved dog, it moved me to tears as I know how this feels. I lost my beautiful boy Casper just over two years ago on May the 21st, 2023. He died in my arms on a beautiful sunny day, sitting in the garden he loved in the grounds of my cottage. He was 14 years old and had been my love, my shadow and my confidant for all those years. He just knew my feelings, my emotions of happy and sad and everything in between. And I knew his. It was unconditional love, without a doubt.

8:31He was an astute, clever collie with unbelievable intuition. We had 14 years of heavenly walks and runs in the Surrey Hills and his spirit lives on because when I walk along those paths now alone, I feel him with me. I know he's there as he is now in my heart and head. on the day he died we two friends Casper and I sat on the lawn he was in my arms we opened a bottle of champagne and toasted his life I called my children and held the phone to his ear so he could hear them and then everyone but me left I held him close to me whispered my words to him as he peacefully left this world I felt a surge of energy and I swear I saw his spirit rise and whoosh past me into the bluebell woods beyond the garden.

9:19Casper loved playing with yellow tennis balls. The next day I gathered his tennis balls up and took them into the woods. I threw them for him and I knew he was there watching me. Since then everywhere I go I see yellow tennis balls in incredibly random places. Secreted in walls I pass, rolling along a quiet country lane. literally everywhere I go they pop up they make me smile I'd like to think it's Casper watching out for me we now have a Casper day on May the 21st we celebrate him and his beautiful sweet soul it seemed fitting to write this email as silly as it may sound to some if you ever get the opportunity to send Linda my love please do as I truly know how she feels kind regards lindsay wilson what a lovely moving touching email we must forward that to lindsay please yes yes she'd love to read that and i know you know jaz because you've got a cat haven't you that you and michelle are very very fond we had a dog years ago that was really michelle's dog called ross a smooth head fox terrier oh did you i didn't know you had a dog i don't think of you as a dog person well it was michelle's dog but no i loved it i love i love dogs london where i live is not a good place for dogs that's the long and the short of because of taking them for walks and things but it wasn't realistic we were living then in the very center of london so um anyway he died and it was a very very emotional i mean it was particularly for michelle it was heartbreaking now she is so attached to nala our cat who was the cat of the name belonged to the neighbors and came over the garden wall and essentially adopted Michelle.

11:00And eventually, it's the neighbor's cat. But they gave the cat to us, and she's been with us now for several years. She's quite old. I mean, she's a Maine Coon, beautiful, but about 19. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I've had to make a decision that, for example, we won't go to, we're not going to Edinburgh this year, because I can't stand the competition from Oasis who are up there. but next year when I've been asked to go to Edinburgh to be on the fringe I've had to say no now because I don't think Michelle could be parted for a month from Nala so I don't think to be honest we shall be leaving home while Nala is still alive so I hope Nala lives another 30 years and we never leave home but we'll see what happens we've created little steps so that Nala can actually climb up onto the bed because she used to be able to jump up onto the bed because she sleeps on Michelle's tummy every night.

11:54And she used to be able to jump up and jump off. Now she can't make it. She can't jump up. So we have created some steps, a little stairway, carpeted, carpeted steps. That's lovely. So she can climb up the bottom at the end of the bed. Like a little Fred Astaire dance routine. Well, it is because she's very nimble. Yeah. But this is, I mean, I've been told, don't you think cats can see in the dark? Yeah. And it's never totally dark in the house, is it, anyway? No, they can see, yeah. But Michelle feels, because she's old, she must be loud. So we have to have the light on. So we have, it's not a very bright light.

12:28We've got dimmer switches. But we have a light on all night. So for me, when I go to sleep now, I always think I'm actually on an aeroplane. When you're sleeping on an aeroplane, you can see, even when they've turned the lights down, it's like, you can see the hostess as well. I actually quite like sleeping with a bit of a light. It's quite exciting. I've now, now I'm thinking I'm on the airplane. I'm quite enjoying having the light on. Yeah, I think I like it. And I can, in the light, I can see Nala coming into the room. And she potters around the room. She maybe has some water. A few of her little nuts that she likes.

13:01They're not actually nuts. It's food that looks a bit nut-like. And then she comes up the stairs. And you can't see the stairs because they're at the end of the bed. And suddenly her head appears over the bottom of the bed. That's so sweet. And she comes over and she looks at me in a slightly disparaging way. Sniffs. and then go straight to Michelle. Yeah, she loves Michelle, doesn't she? She does. So I know how important an animal is. That's lovely. Have we got time for one more? One more and then I think we should, just a really quick one and no chat because we haven't got time and then we'll start on the diaries.

13:33Which one do you want to read? All right, I'll do this one because it's from Mark Shepard. Mark Shepard. I think it's a shepherd. Shepard, it is Shepard. It's got two Ps and of course I've been writing about A.A. Milne for my book that comes out in September though feel free to pre-order now. I don't like that word. They call it pre-order. It's just ordering. It's just ordering. Yeah. They call it pre-order because it's pre-publication. But you can order it now if you go to Amazon. What I think is to let people know it's not going to arrive tomorrow. It's going to arrive in September. In September.

14:04If you can bear to wait. The famous, you have to wait because I'm still correcting the proofs. The illustrator, the famous illustrator, there were several people who illustrated Winnie the Pooh in the early days including a man called Dowd, D-O-W-D, who did the first drawing of Winnie the Pooh, which we've decided to put on the cover of the book. But the famous illustrator was E.H. Shepard, Ernest Shepard. And this name is the same name, but I said Shepard because I think E.H. Shepard is one P and this is two Ps. Anyway, Mark writes, Dear Giles and Harriet, I felt compelled to write to you about a dream I had last night.

14:38It was very strange. It was lunchtime and I was sitting opposite Giles in the Grosvenor House Hotel. I've never actually been there So I can only imagine this is what it looked like Oddly, Dame Maggie Smith was sitting at a table nearby Also eating lunch This went on in total silence And I was starting to think I must have said something rude Everyone was totally quiet Dame Maggie glowered at me Giles continued to eat his lunch silently And then got up and walked away All without a word I woke up with a start And a feeling of discombobulation It felt like I was in an episode of the Rosebud X-Files.

15:19Thank you for reading this far, and more importantly, thank you for Rosebud. Best wishes, Mark Shepard. P.S. As first memories go, mine is quite simple. I remember looking up out of my pram as a baby in 1968. It was the bluest of blue skies in Yorkshire. A shade I've only seen rarely since. Well, it's a lovely evocation of your childhood view of the sky. But what an extraordinary dream. I love featuring in somebody else's dream. I know. And interestingly, I did have lunch. And in fact, I think I've had dinner here at Grosvenor House Hotel with Dame Maggie Smith. And she was a fun person. Fun and amusing.

16:05People, because she played those characters. Particularly, you know, the Dowager in Downton Abbey. people think she must have been very fierce and she wasn't. No. She was a fun person. But I was thinking you can tell it's a dream because you're completely silent in it Giles which has almost certainly never happened in real life You think you're funny do you? Oh it's not very funny that. That was a cheap gag I don't mind. Also it wouldn't be much good for a podcast if you were completely silent would it? So I shouldn't make fun of you. And I'm not going to be silent now on the episodes I have to tell you one of the great pleasures for me This work I do with you, call it work, is ridiculous.

16:43The privilege you and I have each week of meeting truly remarkable people, you know, from people who either become prime minister or aspire to become prime minister through to actors of the calibre of Dame Judi Dench and Sir Gary Oldman. It's wonderful for us. So it's not surprising that this has been the most enjoyable work I have ever done, if you call it work. But also... Is that true, Giles? Yeah, of course you know it's true. Most enjoyable work you've ever done. You know that. I've told you that privately. Oh, that's brilliant. And I think you are the best colleague, professional colleague, I have ever had, which may upset some of the colleagues who may be listening.

17:24But there you are. The technical quality of what we do is key to me, doing it well. Well, I'm actually about to change a microphone cable because I can hear a funny buzz on my mic. Sometimes it happens. So you just keep talking while I do that. We were recording somebody hugely distinguished. This is a treat for September. I won't tell you who it is. The other day, an Oscar-winning performer, international star, literally known all over the world, and at the end of the recording, we did it in front of an audience, Ariat came up looking very bleak indeed, saying, oh, I don't know what we're going to do.

17:59We're going to edit around this. Oh, my goodness. Your voice, it kept coming and going. It couldn't hear you. Oh, dear. Some of the stories were okay, but oh, my. And so I went away. quite depressed at a bad night only four to five hours sleep worrying about this then I get a jolly text in the morning from her saying oh by the way I listened to the recording last night it's fine it's actually good it's good good recording but I do think it's important to maintain standards so yes I like that but the point is yes I can't stop talking but I've really enjoyed learning to listen and i suppose i've done it before because i've been interviewing people off and on often for newspapers over very many years but it is actually quite rewarding listening so i quite like the silence in episodes when i'm not saying much and they're saying everything but i'm praying this episode you're going to hear quite a bit of me because i'm going to read more from my dad is we we are now at oxford university it's october 1967 and is this me beginning is this my first year yeah oh my gosh so you just finished your gap year oh my gosh this is me arriving at university yes these are three years i think that define my life what even more than bdales well B-Dells was my school and no well I think maybe these years consolidated what has become my professional life yeah but the person I am really was formed at B-Dells and before yeah I think I am still all the things that I was at school yes with my projects putting on the school plays editing the school magazine doing the interviews that's where I began interviewing people.

19:50Yes. As you know. Yeah. The vicar, the president of Switzerland. I interviewed. We must get him on. If he's still alive. I interviewed, just think about this, with a school magazine, a head of state. Yeah. That doesn't often happen, does it? No, no. I mean. Did you, who did you interview when you were at school? Probably the geography teacher or something. Did you do the school magazine? Were you involved in the school magazine? I did. Our school didn't really have a very good school magazine, but I was involved in things at university. So, here I am. And this is the beginning of my first term.

20:22Wednesday, the 11th of October, 1967. The city of dreaming spire stuff will have to wait. No time for purple prose. Cutting to the chase. I arrived at 4 p.m. I found my room and my staircase in the back quad by the library. I was at New College, incidentally. It's a plain rectangular room overlooking the street, but that's fine. I met my scout, Jack. old boy but very friendly he'll make the bed wash up sort the laundry etc the chaplain's room is next door that's not a problem according to jack and the home secretary's son is going to be on this staircase too this is a mother boy called charles jenkins who was the son of roy jenkins who obviously was a labor mp and later i think a social democrat mp anyway he was home secretary between 1965 and 1967 and then home secretary again later.

21:20Very influential politician. Anyway, his son was going to be on my staircase. So you're already getting to know the celebrities. Isn't that funny? The first paragraph. And also this notion of Jack, who I remember vividly, that we had these people called scouts. I think at Cambridge they were called bedders, who actually looked after you. It's like having your own manservant. He made the bed. He did the washing up. He sorted your laundry for you. I know. I mean, that's pretty amazing. yeah she did your laundry yeah fantastic anyway hall is grand high ceiling oak paneled adorned with oil paintings of former wardens and the like the food however is unremarkable had post-supper coffee with assorted other freshmen then drinks at 11 with barnabas and friends barnabas and friends these were two boys david creamer nicknamed barnabas and another friend of mine from bedales Peter Harris, and they'd arrived at New College Oxford the year before.

22:18I remember you talking about David Kramer. So far, so good. And my kettle works.

22:33Thursday, 12th October 1967. Quick question, Giles. It was all boys, all men only. Oh yes, in those days there were no co-educational colleges at all. There were a small number, four or five women's colleges, but the other 30 colleges were all men's colleges. So if you were a girl there, you were done remarkably well. You know, five to ten percent of the students at Oxford in those days were women. Bear in mind that at Cambridge, I don't think women could get degrees at Cambridge. They could study, but couldn't take their degrees until after the Second World War. Wow. Extraordinary, isn't it? Thursday, the 12th of October, 1967.

23:13Meeting with a moral tutor, Dr. Merlin Thomas, at Savile House. He is round, smooth, amusing, teaches French, makes jokes, but doesn't give a lot away. I think he thought I talked too much. I think I thought I talked too much. Lunch with Zan Smiley. Amusing, fair-haired, old Etonian. His father is a sort of latter-day Lawrence of Arabia. Get gown from Jack. Because I'm a scholar, I get a longer, fuller gown than the commoners. Tour the Union. Wonderful building. Especially the debating chamber and the library with murals by Rossetti, William Morris and Edward Byrne Jones. Chaplin's Sherry. Dry.

24:02Both the event and the sherry. Friday the 13th of October 1967. Addressed in hall by Warden, Dean and Domestic Bursar. The essence of the warden's message, look up while you are here. Look around at the buildings. Unless you choose to live in Venice, you are unlikely to live in such a beautiful city again. That's good advice. Interesting, isn't it? I really like that. And I think it's stayed with me all my life. I do look up a lot. In London, I look up. Tops of buildings, fantastic. Addressed on PPE, that was the subject I was doing, philosophy, politics and economics, by Quinton, Nicholas and Opie.

24:42Those are the names of the Dons, the teachers. Have I chosen the right subject in brackets? Question mark, question mark, exclamation, exclamation. Chat and lunch with Peter Torrey. Coffee with Mark Cadell. Call on Peter Adamson, editor of ISIS. Discuss article possibilities. Not discouraging. Now, this is intriguing to me, Harriet. This is my first weekend. Your third day. My third day. And you're already having meetings. I've already visited the union. Yeah. And I'm now meeting the editor of the university magazine, ISIS, to discuss article possibilities. Oh, bless me, bless me, bless me. Well, it's not surprising, Giles, is it?

25:26Oh, dear. You hit the ground running. Were you still walking around with your briefcase? Oh, what a ridiculous figure I was. No, no, no. Saturday, 14th October, 1967. Coffee with Peter Harris. he has returned from his travels in the east with dysentery and worse poor fellow change for inauguration of freshmen signing the register mumbling latin phrases shaking hands with the warden the warden there was a man called sir william hater and i think he'd been the british ambassador to moscow anyway sherry afterwards plus chat with sir william the amiable and gossipy talk of kim philby there was always something slightly doubtful about him you know and harold mcmillan he's the university chancellor sir william had favored clement antley anyway chinese lunch with parents and ben they'd obviously come up to see me chinese lunch with parents and ben that was my brother special fried rice as always and sweet and sour pork freshman's fair sup and coffee Look at papers in Junior Common Room Letters Including long letter to Sal She worries that I tell lies Not to her, but to the world I don't tell her lies She knows that She worries that my only real world Is the world inside our heads Visit from Kevin Pakenham Lord Longford's son Who wants me to write an article on prisons for the new magazine he's editing.

26:58It's all going to be fine. So are you still together with Sal at this point? Yes, you may remember. I mean, at school, we were proper boyfriend, girlfriend. And during the gap year when I was in England, we were very close. And then I went away to America for six months. We kept in touch. We promised to be faithful. We wrote these very intimate letters to one another. I came back. It was all, you know, wonderful again. and I think we thought it's ongoing. This is the love of our lives. But let's see what happens. Monday, 23rd October, 1967. It's 1am. So it's Tuesday, in fact. I've just come from a mystical experience.

27:40A group of freshmen gathered around a table with a wine glass to communicate with the other side. Quite amusing. The line was mostly busy. This must be brief because seven hours from now, Jack will wake me. In eight hours, matriculation in the Sheldonian Theatre. In ten, a lecture, my first. In thirteen, I shall be deep in the study of consumer equilibrium. Alexis de Tocqueville and the complexities of the 1905 Russian Revolution. Meanwhile, I need to report on the major event of my Oxford career to date. My speech at the Union Freshman's Debate on Sunday night. In short, it was a resounding success.

28:27Oh, I should have checked this before letting us read this. It's so embarrassing. Anyway, true, the other paper speakers were fearful. But nonetheless, I am bound to say, at least I put in brackets, exclamation, exclamation, close brackets. It was cheers and laughter all the way. I spoke for 10 minutes and was received by the 300 or so present with very long and gratifying applause. I haven't changed have I because last night I won't tell you the detail of this I won't tell the listeners the detail of this but I'm now embarrassed to realise I sent a text at midnight to Harriet saying I just got in from whatever event I was doing and how I got a standing ovation so this is pathetic actually 16 years old I'm still boasting oh darling I'm so sorry it must be a nice feeling though as someone who's never had a standing ovation you get one I hope twice a week from me Oh, that's so lovely.

29:23But it must be a nice feeling when you get one. There is, we've had lots of people on Rosebud tell us this. There is no, I mean, many performers are really only alive on stage and in performance. And laughter is the easiest way of communicating, you know, that it's going well. You can also actually, when you're being emotional, you can hear the pin drop. You can hear the held breath. It's fantastic. But obviously, it went well. cheers and laughter all the way i spoke for 10 minutes and was received by the 300 or so present with very long and gratifying applause as i sat down the president passed me this note splendid a churchill tank fitted with flails doubling as a semaphore machine robert jackson the word semaphore isn't that but i can't decipher it semaphore machine anyway least ways i sense i'm off to a good start of the union of course preparing the wretched thing took most of my thinking time at the weekend together with lengthy discussions with my opposite number in the debate william viscount lewisham son of lady dartmouth grandson of barbara cartland this is ridiculous here i am 60 years later still name dropping in this diary entry but it's my sort of second week at oxford i'm doing what i was too not too nonsense anyway William Viscount Lewisham.

30:46Oh, I say, not too bright. A slight stammer. Not a good speaker, but well-intentioned. Oh, Charles, this is shaming. Ah, he has a refrigerator in his rooms. Yeah, he was at Christchurch. And his buddies are caricatures of the Christchurch aristocracy. I don't know if it was like that when you were at Oxford. Christchurch, in those days, was full of aristotypes, Hooray Henrys, that sort of thing. Anyway, he had a refrigerator in his room. Wow. I mean, there was the only refrigerator in any student's room in the hall of Oxford. Now they've all got refrigerators and microwaves. Then it was completely extraordinary.

31:22It must have been enormous, because fridges were big, weren't they? It was a huge refrigerator, and I don't think the microwave had yet been invented. Anyway, I called in for claret, ha, on Thursday, and enjoyed, ha, again, the company of a... Oh, dear. I'm not sure that I should be naming these people, the things I'm saying about them. Anyway, I will go through with it. I called in for claret, ha, on Thursday, and enjoyed, ha, again, the company of a pretentious idiot, though very brilliant, they assure me, Charles Cecil, pronounced Sissel, and one Max Wyndham, milder and nicer, the son of Harold Macmillan's former private secretary, Lord Egremont.

32:01went to my first crime society meeting i'm now the new college rep and had pleasant chit chat with brigadier mansell inspector general of prisons auditioned for the new college play and rather hope i don't get anything because i'm already horribly busy my first piece of oxford writing appears on wednesday it's called oh charles this is too embarrassing for words i don't think i can read this out oh you should you should have read this before you let me read this. Giles, but I can always cut things out. Well, no, we better go with it because it's in the public domain. Oh, dear. My first piece of Oxford writing appears on Wednesday.

32:40It's called The Breast. Oh! I thought I should be a bit outrageous to ensure they noticed and used it. I'm rather dreading its appearance now. On Saturday afternoon, I christened my new crockery by giving tea to a gaggle of bedalions and a lonely old Etonian. In the evening, I joined Barnabas and his parents and their elder sister at the Elizabeth Restaurant, Oxford's finest restaurant, for a super dinner on the occasion of Barnabas's 21st birthday. Needless to say, he didn't mention anything about it being his birthday beforehand. It was a very grand, but rather a sad and lonely affair. Bed. I have my own washbasin, etc.

33:25here, but the baths are in the basement down two flights which is a ball the water is hot and I usually time my bath to coincide with the 10 o 'clock news I'm feeling a little bit shame faced about this diary because obviously it is an intimate private diary not necessarily for publication but it's a long time ago and I apologise about my teenage views So what was your article The article on the breast? What was that about? Well, let's see if I write more about it. It was. I must have kept it somewhere. At least it wasn't on the breasts, plural. That sounds worse. But it was about a female breast.

34:06Oh, gosh. Exactly. And I suppose I wrote it for it to be shocking and noticeable. And, well, we can find it. It'll be in the box in the basement if you want to. And we can see what I wrote. I'm embarrassed. Sunday the 29th of October, 1967. just in from meeting with the editor of ISIS. My piece on the breast appears to have gone down well, provoking a little controversy, some disgust and some amusement, as it should be. He has plenty more he wants me to do, starting with something on death row. You remember when I was in America, I went on death row and I wrote about it. No, I mean, that's really good.

34:44Just to clarify for people listening, ISIS... Is a magazine? Yeah. It's a weekly magazine. It was started in Victorian times. It was established as the University Magazine. And this guy, Peter Adamson, I'd only just met. He was the editor. And I was clearly persuading him to do stuff. So he took the breast because it was shocking and racy. And it was like a prose essay on the breast. What did I know? What were you saying about it, Charles? What on earth was I saying? Please, please. Oh, it's so... I mean, oh, anyway. so I was glad to get to death row I think anyway once it's done you can't deny it no yeah rehearsals for the new college play have now begun Pinter A Night Out I've got a predictable part a Bain middle-aged businessman the only interesting member of the cast appears to be Eliza Manningham Buller daughter of our former Lord Chancellor she's jolly and I like her most of these characters that I'm writing about including some of the ones I'm slightly disparaging of I'm pleased to say are still friends of mine and Eliza Manningham Buller who I met on that day in the play later, well she joined I think MI5 possibly while we were still at university and she eventually became the head of MI5 Yes, I thought I recognised the name None of us knew it at that time and is now a lady of the garter well of course none of us knew it until it was announced she kept it close to her chest but anyway she was marvellous Lucky she didn't tell you, Charles.

36:22Life here is beginning to take on a definite shape, except when it comes to the matter of work. However, I do have plans. The schedule to take me through from now until prelims on the 14th of March. They were the first examinations you took. As soon as I finish tapping this, I'm off to discover the charms of the demand curve, its shape, constraints and elasticity. I have to say I don't see you studying these things, Giles Why weren't you doing English? Economics Well, I thought English I can read, I can write And also I thought I wasn't going to be very interested in Middle English Which I had to be part of it Though I did love Chaucer Because my teacher at school, Mr Gardner, you may remember Read Chaucer so beautifully Anyway, see what happens with the politics, philosophy and economics See what happens there Saturday the 4th of November 1967 Durham What a nightmare 4 hours and 25 minutes on the train to get here For what?

37:22A truly hideous evening The President of the Oxford Union Was invited to speak at the Durham Union And sent me instead Toady that I am I came The debate This house believes it has the answer To who we think we are That was the motion A pointless motion a silly speech a lukewarm reception i can't wait to leave the only high spot has been meeting john wells do you remember the name john wells he wrote for a program called that was a week that was on television he was a performer an actor i think he'd been a teacher at eton he was a really delightful person oh it says here the only high spot has been meeting john wells schoolmaster turned professional satirist who also spoke and he was very nice waspish in debate charming privately.

38:13The other consolation Sally is here. B-Dale's half turn. So at least I have a shoulder to cry on. Monday, 20th November 1967 High drama. The pound has been devalued. I'm an economist. I should know what this means. Harold Wilson has explained it to the nation but we're none the wiser. Perhaps when I see my economics tutor Roger Opie he will take me through it. Whenever I go into his room, he's always just coming off the phone to number 10. He makes that very clear. I assumed it was 10 Downing Street, and perhaps sometimes it is. Usually, I now realise, it is number 10, Great Turnstile, the offices of the new statesman.

38:56Roger Opie is a regular contributor. Play rehearsal tonight. Dire. No lines learnt. My focus is now on Thursday. I'm tellering, that means being a teller, for the nose in the debate that the Roman Catholic Church has no place in the 20th century. The Reverend Dr. Ian Paisley versus Norman Synton-Stevens, MP. Do I need to tell you who these people were and how famous they were? Well, I know Ian Paisley. Ian Paisley, founding member of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, Democratic Unionist MP from 1970, first minister of Northern Ireland later, a real firebrand norman cindran stevas leading catholic a conservative mp cabinet minister under margaret thatcher so two powerful people normally nobody would stay to hear the teller's speeches but this debate is being broadcast on bbc2 live and in color from 9 0 5 p.m to the close at 11 30 p.m.

40:01so the audience will stay and i should be heard robert jackson the union president a good man a lonely man right i think for the academic life he plans tells me i must be serious serious written in capitals thursday 23rd november 1967 it went well it went wonderfully well Being last up helped. Having the hall full to bursting helped. The lights, the cameras, the sense of occasion, they all helped. Ian Paisley was the star turn. His argument is monstrous. His theatricality alarming. He produced a communion wafer and snapped it in two, saying, They dare to call this biscuit the body of Christ. This biscuit.

40:53But he has a power and a presence that cannot be denied. stevas was silky smooth amusing it was a tremendous evening at dinner lobster mornay rose pheasant marron glacé i sat with dick francis from the bbc afterwards i had a drink with desmond o'donovan and giles playfair who were commentating there was much congratulation and happy prognostication a good night one of the best it was amazing it was amazing actually i'm saying that you now yeah it was amazing i know i'm ridiculous but it was amazing i can't believe they put this debate on tv well the oxford union had a special place in british life english life and became famous notorious i mean the presidency of people associated with it from victorian times often were leading statesmen you know and because there was a debate in the 1930s about this house will not fight for kin and country um where it was much reported in the newspapers debates were occasionally well they were often reported in the newspapers in the national newspapers and cameras came down and you as you'll see during my time there several debates were televised.

42:15Yeah. I mean, things have changed. Obviously, they do sometimes, if there's a controversial debate in Oxford or Cambridge, it does get in the news because there have been a few of those in recent times. But the idea that you would televise an Oxford union debate now, you know, I think that... And stay on until this 19-year-old boy gets up and makes this speech. But this speech that I made on television in 1967 in a way changed and defined my life. This is one of the reasons I still work in television. I don't think television was something that occurred to me to be doing. No.

43:01Friday, 1st December, 1967. Another lovely review for my speech just in Another rave, in fact Last night at the Union was less enjoyable But possibly more historic Miss Geraldine Jones has just been elected The first woman president in the 144-year history of the Union I like her She doesn't inspire me But she has made a little bit of history And you can't argue with that Well done, her Not so well done The New College Drama Society The play was not A banging, smashing, walloping hit Actually, it was something of a mitigated disaster Mitigated because all the others Were quite as bad as I was Work improved slightly Opie's one-word comment On the 13 sides I did for him last week On money supply was Good Wednesday, 6 December 1967 AM OP Tutorial Work on speech Meet Harold Gardner for Chinese lunch Not inspired Mustn't look back Afternoon Sharon Church's Tea Party At LMH Lady Margaret Hall, one of the women's colleges Not inspired Got soaked in snow Ugh PM Party at the Adamson's flat in Walton Street Peter, that was the editor of ISIS is a good man, rough but dignified and very straightforward.

44:31I arrived at 8 and left at 3am, mostly talking to Leslie, Peter's wife. She's 21, I think. Married undergraduates are very unusual. Also talked to Philip Maxwell, the ISIS business manager. I like him. He's an odd mix, shy and bombastic at the same time. He arrived with two bottles of champagne, which some thought a bit show-off. But why not? His father is helping fund the magazine. So he's a power in the land. His father was Robert Maxwell, you know, then the MP, I think, for Buckingham. And he was a publisher, a newspaper proprietor. Later, as you may remember, fell from grace and fell from his yacht.

45:15Notorious. Notorious. Quite a figure. This was his son, who I liked. Thursday, 7th December, 1967. Union farewell debate. Quales artifices perimus. That was the subject of the debate. In Latin, can you believe it? The dying words of the Emperor Nero when he had fled from Rome and was making preparations for his own suicide. What does that mean, Giles? I don't know. Quales artifices perimus. I've no idea. Really? No. Oh, I'm disappointed. At the time, I would have known. I would have looked it up. Shall we look it up now? Well, I mean, it seems crazy to have three Latin words and not know what they mean.

45:54We have, I mean, at the time. What a funny group we were. Qualies, the famous last words of Qualies. And Prenero. It is Perimus. What an artist dies in me. Ah, Qualies. Yes, you see, artist, artifices, quales, water, perimus, perishes in me. What an artist dies in me, the dying words of the Emperor Nero, who had fled from Rome and was making preparations for his own death, his own suicide. I think the idea was to celebrate the genius of our outgoing president. I did my best, it seemed to work. Opposite me was a very strange fellow, Leo Frank Holford Strevens, a sort of genius marquet, a union fixture.

46:44He has a wonderful mind and a mad, uncoordinated body. When he gets excited, his arms flail and he froths at the mouth. This is no exaggeration. He would be a fellow of all souls, but for his table manners. Robert Jackson will be a fellow of all souls. His table manners are impeccable. The visitors, the visiting speakers, were Basil Boothroyd of Punch magazine and Robin Day, ex-president. And he was a famous television journalist. Do you remember him at all? Mm-hmm. sort of pioneer of the abrasive political interview. Big bow tie man, yeah. And Robin Day, ex-president, who you know, who was the best by far.

47:22We got on well. He went out of his way to be friendly and kindly agreed to let me interview him next term for ISIS. After the debate, there were unexciting eats on offer. I didn't linger. It's best not to linger. Friday, the 8th of December, letter published in The Times on BOAC and their pricing policy. See separate scrapbook. Oh, please. Oh, can't wait for that, Giles. I kept, oh dear, I kept, I sort of published letters to newspapers in one set of scrapbooks and articles by me in a second set of scrapbooks and articles about me in a third lot of scrapbooks. And as well as this daily diary, there was a secret diary and there were journals covering certain special subjects and projects.

48:11Well, I mean, there's a whole diary covering the Canadian Expo of 1967 that we must hear about. Oh, dearie me. And as you know, I kept all the correspondence filed alphabetically by surname of correspondence in the series of ring binders, all of which I will show you as your special summer treat. Oh, child. Okay. Well, Rosebub would be very boring without all this material, so we're grateful. I'll just finish this entry because this is the end of the year. coffee with jeff lean amiable and balding though he's not much older than me he is still an undergraduate but he wants to be a journalist and sells stories to the times diary for five pounds a time we cooked up something together met up with peter adamson at the union for a drink discussed an isis column he's going to give me one next term and leslie is that his wife that was his wife lunch at merton a beautiful college with dennis matiashek one of the isis editorial team he later dennis matiashek changed his name to dennis mcshane and became a member of parliament labor member of parliament actually he was a foreign office minister under tony blair and i think got into some trouble over expenses spent a short time in prison oh dear but a lot of these characters i'm mentioning here do later turn up if we get that far when i become an mp people like Robert Jackson and others also become MPs.

49:34Anyway. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord. Lunch at Merton, a beautiful cottage with Dennis Matiaschek. Leslie was there. Am I falling in love with her? Tea with Barnabas. Dull, though the anchovy toast of the Union is very, very tasty. Bought a copy of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations as a present for the Adamsons. Failed to go to the Union Ball. I had a ticket, but I didn't go. I've decided that it's best to stay away. Don't let them get to know you too well. They may see through you if they do. Oh, Giles. Wow. That's a very Felix Krul line, isn't it? I'm not sure I'm liking this character. I know. I'm falling in love with somebody else's wife.

50:26Don't let them get to know you. I don't think that's you at all. I think you're quite open. Well, I hope I've changed and improved since this person. Don't linger. But I think that was good advice because, well, you will see if I progress up the greasy pole of union life. But now at the Oxford Union, if you want to be a president or the treasurer or the librarian or any of the posts, you form a kind of slate and you get people to support you. A bit like trying to be an MP, I guess. In my day, that wasn't done at all. You did no canvassing. People just voted for you. Right. So I think I got it into my head.

51:08I can be a star turn at the dispatch box, be amusing, be the novelty, and be a character like that. Don't let them get to know who I really am. So will we discover who I really am in next fortnight's thrilling installment of the Teenage Diaries of Giles Brandreth? Oh, it's so embarrassing. Brilliant. I want you to read the article on the breast. I mean, I just can't imagine what you wrote. I may get you to read it. We'll go into the basement. When you're next at my house, when you're next coming to the house, let's make time, come early and come into the basement and let's look, because we keep talking about these file of letters.

51:49They may be very uninteresting. Let's see if we want to use them, because we can then get out the file and keep it out for a while and just occasionally dip into a letter. and I definitely, we can look at the article on the breast and you can then say, Giles, it's not too late to be cancelled. You may have written this when you were 19 and you're no longer 19. You should be ashamed of yourself. You can still be cancelled and I wouldn't want that. No. But you might think, oh, this is quite amusing in its own way. I mean, can you imagine? The mind boggles. The mind boggles. Okay. Is that it for this week?

52:22It is. If people want to write in, share their experiences of their time at university. Or their descriptions of breasts they've known and not. Singular. Please, yes. Or plural. Oh dear, don't, don't, don't. Anyway, feel free to get in touch. Remind us of our address. It's hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. So that's it. There'll be a normal... Oh, I just remembered something, Giles. Yes. People want to meet us. there's still a few tickets left not many though we're nearly sold out in broadstairs no i just remember something really important oh yes that we have to do oh before we go an important shout out to marie unsworth mimi who's having surgery this week and we're saying get well soon aren't we mimi we are genuinely thinking of you we know you've had the surgery we know you're in recovery get as well as you can as soon as you can we want you back on your bike yes get well soon mimi and what is harriet saying to me now giles on your bike cue the music cue oh cue the music i love the music and i still love leslie oh god and i love sally too life is complicated when you're 19

53:47Thank you.

54:21That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth. Thank you for listening.