Gyles's diary, episode 21

0:20Hello and welcome to Rosebud. This is the podcast all about memories. On a Friday we meet a remarkable individual and I ask them what is your very first memory and they share that memory and then we unpack their story from there but on Tuesday we try to do something a little bit different we call it more rosebud because well actually usually there's less of me and more of Harriet you don't get Harriet on a Friday but we keep her in a little bottle and then we uncork the bottle on a Tuesday and here she is full of zest I love that metaphor Giles I mean if only were a metaphor and you didn't actually put me in a bottle.

0:58Yeah, I know what you're finding. Which is very uncomfortable. Because you're a bit claustrophobic. You don't really like it. I don't like being in the bottle. No. I'm very claustrophobic. Are you? Well, actually... Do you say claustrophobic? Or do you say claustrophobic? Yeah. I think I'd say claustrophobic. I don't know. Do you think you're not frightened of a man called claustrophobic? What about Dahlia and Dahlia? I say Dahlia. Yes, but it was named after somebody called Dahl, D-A-H-L. Yes, I think it is Dahl. Americans say dahlia, don't they? They say dahlia for the flower. Yeah, I think so.

1:29I think you could say that that was right. I don't know. We've ended up saying dahlia. So what are your phobias? Don't like spiders. Oh, my wife doesn't like spiders. I'm quite comfortable with spiders. It's one of the few sort of male type things that I can do. I can actually put the upturned glass over the spider. Oh, I can do that. I just couldn't pick it up and I don't really want to look at it. No, I don't think I want to do either of those things, but I'm capable of doing them. I can do the glass, but I don't like a big one. Anything else? I don't think I'm brilliant with heights. I wouldn't say I've got a phobia, really, not a proper phobia.

2:13I'm terrified of heights. I loathe heights. I wasn't so bad when young. We may find, when we're looking for photographs of me during the years of the diaries we're talking about, of me clambering over the roofs of Notre Dame. Yes, I remember you saying. There may be a photograph of that. But quite soon, almost the first television programme I did in the early 1970s, I had to go high up onto the roof of Canterbury Cathedral. And I found that terrifying. And now I'm really bad at heights. I was in the commentary box with our friend Claire Balding the other week doing the commentary at Trooping the Colour in Oscar's Parade.

2:50and the BBC place where you watch from is built really high up. Oh, is it? And I had to climb up a sort of ladder, a metal ladder. And I really was pretty terrified of that. But there was no alternative. I had to get up there. So I don't like heights. Maybe I'm not too bad. Actually, I'm not too – I quite like a cupboard. And I think I've told you I've lain in a coffin now and again. Oh, yeah. And I found that quite reassuring. So that's okay. Quite relaxing. I'm not good at speed. No, you're a terrible passenger. I've experienced that. I'm a terrible passenger. Slow down, Harriet. Just stay in the slow lane.

3:28That's all I want. I want life in the slow lane. Yeah. And I'm not wonderful on aeroplanes. No. Oh, you've got quite a lot of little phobies, Giles. Yeah, I'm not wonderful on aeroplanes. It must be said. I've got better. Yeah. I always say the Lord's Prayer during takeoff. I mean, I literally always close my eyes. Yeah. Father, I'm not in heaven. I always do. And I repeat it until we get up and start going on an even keel. Because they haven't done, they didn't get around to doing a prayer for plane passengers, did they? They did one for people at sea. I mean, there's a whole section. Yes, there is.

4:01For people at sea. But for plane travel, Jesus and God didn't get around to that. Because I think they died before that happened. I've told you about being on that aeroplane going from Spain to the south of France, haven't I? A small, not a private plane, but a small plane. The worst, the small one. And I was sitting in the front seat. There were only about eight people on the plane. It was a very small plane. And there wasn't an air steward or anything. No. There was just the, you know, the captain. So they put you in charge. Just the captain. Charles Brandreth's here, everyone. Clear the front seat.

4:32She's coming through. So I sat in the front seat with a young woman, youngish woman, rather attractive, I noticed. And she was clearly a businesswoman. She was wearing a dark suit. Who was flying this plane, Charles? You, this woman. Is there anyone in charge? We were the passengers. and we were going from somewhere like Madrid to somewhere like Nice. Yeah. I had been booked to be on a yacht called the Christina, had been owned by the Onassis family. Wow. And I was being paid a lot of money as a corporate entertainer to go and do a turn at a dinner on this yacht. And the people really were wealthy.

5:08I remember when I got onto the yacht, they were reading the bedtime story to their children who were back somewhere near Oxford. and the children were lying on the bed in Oxford and the mother was lying on her bunk in the yacht side by side reading the story on camera so that the children felt she was actually there. Oh, but this is a while ago, so that must have been quite cutting edge. It was very cutting edge. Technology. Wow. But to get to this gig, I had to go from, maybe it was Barcelona, I had to go from somewhere in Spain to the south of France, small aeroplane. So I'm in a small aeroplane with, in the front seat, with this attractive businesswoman on my right and the plane lifts off.

5:49Okay. And there's a lot of rattling and juggling and things rolling around. And there are just six or eight of us passengers. And I'm afraid I grab the woman. Yeah, fair enough. And she says, it is all right. It is all right. And we hold on to each other because it's clear I'm terrified. And we're really holding on to each other. And up we go. And it keeps going up and then dropping a bit. Oh, gosh, Giles. And then, and then, I smell burning. No. I smell burning. And I'm doing this and I said, can you smell it? She said, I can smell it. And then she's now hugging me. And the pair of us are hugging each other.

6:24Good, no. And curiously, what I think is so curious, I think I'm about to die. Yeah. But I have time to think, oh, this is charming. I'm actually, I'm hugging it. And she's finding it acceptable that this younger, a businesswoman, are getting on quite well. And so it's going, oh, and then we hug each other again. And then, not only is there the smell of burning, but suddenly, smoke. No. Smoke begins to emerge from the captain's cubicle under the door. Smoke billowing. What? And we are still trying to take off. I am terrified. Wait, so you're not in the air yet? We're in the air. We are in the air.

7:00We're going up, up, up. We're getting up, and then it lurches downwards. We still give up again. So the woman and I, we are hugging each other. Why do you ask out of flying, by the way? There's a smell of smoke. there's smoke coming out from under the door leading through to where the crew is and then we get up to where we're supposed to be on a safe plane going straight ahead and as we hit that top spot the door bangs open and we see the captain of the plane chatting to the co-pilot while smoking his cigarillo oh my goodness that was fine he was just having a fag having a fag and i probably in those days we would have been allowed to have fags too i remember once going into the cockpit you remember they don't allow it anymore but if you were young i wasn't even that young i was on my own with my sister i was let's say i was 18 and she was 16 or whatever but we cheekily asked one of the air hostesses can we go up to the front and she said yeah so we did and it was so fun and they let us sit at the back but they were smoking and drinking well that's my memory these um air olympic greek pilots they were having such a laugh yeah and i remember thinking this is the life but also being slightly concerned that these people were in charge of a large passenger beware of greeks flying planes yeah it's a well-known saying they were smoking they were yeah it was all it was um it really was the old days i loved it wonderful now speaking of the old days we're going back half a century because we're reading more to my diaries in a moment But should we first have some emails because people get in touch from around the world with different thoughts.

8:38And who have we heard from this week? We've heard from Gemma O 'Connor. We've got two emails this week and the first one's from Gemma. And she says, Hello, Giles and Harriet. I just wanted to write in to tell you that I'm going through my Giles Brandreth era. This entails injecting moments of Giles Brandreth into my life at any given opportunity. For context, I started listening to Rosebud at the beginning of this year, and I've been so taken with the way Giles speaks and with his use of language that I've decided it was about time I also started to try to speak like Giles. Goodness. In particular, his use of the word contemporaries.

9:24I love hearing Giles ask guests the question, and who... Wait, you do it, Giles. And who are your contemporaries? Yes, for it is a word very rarely heard today. Goodness. I believe more people should be asking this question. It stirs up images in my head of professors and students walking up and down in robes at Hogwarts. So I decided to challenge myself to inject as many Giles-isms into each day as I possibly could. Contemporaries, I've ticked off my list. I teach dance at York College and I sometimes do workshops with primary school children. Last week, during one of my workshops, I was asked a question that I didn't know the answer to.

10:09This gave me a perfect opportunity. I said, great question, not one I know the answer to, but let me pass this over to one of my contemporaries. My joy at saying the word shone through for all to see. And now my contemporaries have asked me which Giles-ism I shall be using next. And that's easy. It's... That's by the by. Say that again, John. That's by the by. I haven't quite figured out where this will be used, but the joy will be allowing it to sporadically and spontaneously appear when the moment takes me. i'm thoroughly enjoying my giles brandreth era and also the diaries these are my favorites as i get to collect more giles isms next step will be to start wearing more knitted jumpers love you both very much jemma o 'connor well i love jemma o 'connor very much isn't that charming and she's in york now next year i'm going to be doing a tour in april may june and i think the theater Royal York is on the list.

11:21Great. So when we know when it is, and I'm hoping you're going to be coming to some of the shows, Harriet, we must get Gemma involved and maybe some dance students from York College. Yeah. And they could create a dance number. Yeah, called That's By the By Contemporaries. Yeah, absolutely. Well, there is a dance company called the London Contemporary dance company, I think. Oh, there will be. So this can be the York contemporaries. Anyway, it's an idea, isn't it? Yeah, great. So look, Gemma, keep in touch. Keep watching when we're coming and we'll do something with you. But that's charming. Yeah, and let us know the next Gilesism.

11:59Obviously lets us know how that's by the by goes, but what's next? Well, people find your voice very attractive. I don't think I have as many turns of phrase as you do, Giles. I mean, you've got quite a few. I didn't realise that at all. I think I My father was born in 1910, at the end of the Edwardian era. And I think I sound like him, and I think I've picked up, I think, his vocabulary and his way of speaking. So in a way, when you're listening to me, you're listening to somebody whose vocabulary and way of speaking was formed more than a century ago. Wow. That's saying something, John. It is.

12:40Exactly. Exactly. Whereas you are, well, you're one of my contemporaries in terms of, yes. Okay. Is there another letter? There's one more, which I think you're going to love. Because it's one of our international letters. We do get a lot of, I call them letters. I know they're emails. No, no, I know. Because you're from the Edwardian era and they didn't have email back then. So this has been sent from Melba. That's a great name place. From Melly Melba, presumably. How interesting. Melba, Australian Capital Territory. Melbourne but Melbourne is named after Lord Melbourne I think one of Queen Victoria's Prime Ministers right so where does I mean I don't know about Melbourne Toast and Peach Melbourne but they are named after Dame Nellie Melba who was an Australian opera singer so this must be named after her not Nellie Melba Nellie Melba yeah oh so you think the place was named after I'm With You yeah after the great opera singer yeah I would have thought so Melba he's called Tony Beck yeah Melba okay what's he Why is he writing?

13:42Dear Giles and Harriet, I'm writing to you about a Brandreth coincidence. Last night I caught up with episode 17 of the diaries, in which Giles describes his family history in America, and in particular, the success of Brandreth's pills. When the episode finished, I picked up the novel I'm currently reading, Melville's 1851 classic, Moby Dick, and on the very next page, page 386, When describing how sperm whales sometimes suffer with dyspepsia, Melville writes, How to cure such a dyspepsia, it is hard to say, unless by administering three or four boatloads of Brandreth's pills and then running out of harm's way, as labourers do in blasting rocks.

14:29I could hardly believe this coincidence, Tony writes, and felt I should let you know how the Brandreth story is echoing across time and space. Kind regards, Tony Beck. P.S. Incidentally, the chapter in Moby Dick prior to the passage I've quoted above is titled The Pequod. Is that how you say that? Yes, I think it is. It's the name of the boat. Oh, yeah. I haven't read Moby Dick, I'm afraid to say. The Pequod meets the rosebud. It's funny, isn't it? Very good. Wow. Well, isn't that extraordinary? Herman Melville's great classic Moby Dick. And there he is. Well, this is a reminder. People sometimes think I exaggerate when I say my forebear, my great, great, great grandfather, this man, Dr.

15:14Benjamin Brandreth, left Liverpool, went to America, made a fortune, conquered the world with Brandreth's bills. People think it's just one of my stories. But it's true. And it was so popular, so current that Herman Melville makes this joke about Brandreth's bills. It was part of the culture of the time. I love that. That's fascinating. Did you know that, Giles? You must have known that. I think I did know. I didn't know the exact reference, but I knew it popped up. There's quite, from Victorian writing, there are quite a few places where Brandreth's pills are mentioned. How brilliant. Because they were like, you know, aspirin or whatever.

15:50Yeah, a brand name. They were a brand name. A Brandreth name. They were a brand name of the day. Wow, that's brilliant. But you, for goodness sake, the other day, and it's quite funny for our listeners because they're not living quite the world we are. To be honest, I'm not living in this world. It sounds like I am, but I'm not in the same league as Giles Brandreth. No, no, you are. We are both in the Rosebud world. We are in the Rosebud garden. I know that normal listeners have real lives. They listen to us going to sleep, on the drive, doing a run. We are living this 24-7. And the other night, I turned off the electric toothbrush for a moment because I can't stand the noise.

16:29I can't listen at the same time. And suddenly I remembered that your forebear was, say it again? Sir Roland Hill. Sir Roland Hill. Yeah, my great, great, great, great, great uncle. I mean, that is extraordinary. Now, he was the head of the post office. Did he devise the first stamp? Did he conceive the original stamps? He did, yeah. He is the man who gave the world the penny back. Yeah, he was the inventor of the idea of paying for post. Now, the difference between you and me is that Branford's bills were fun and made a fortune, millions, even in Victorian times. But they're no longer there. I mean, I've got a few, and there's talk of maybe reviving them, but it's gone.

17:17Let's face it, it's gone. The postage stamp has conquered the world. And even in this age of electronic communication, billions of poster stamps are still produced in countries around the world. And it's thanks to Harriet Jane's forebear. But you're not directly descended. I think I'm very distant. No, he is an uncle. Yeah. Several times removed. Did he not have children? No, I think he did. I think he did. So are you descended from his brother or his sister? My knowledge is going to get... I need to bring in this, the family tree, because it's on there. Frankly, listeners, you're honoured to be listening to us both, because here I am with my extraordinary four bears, and here is Harriet Jane, kinswoman of the person who gave you the postage stamp.

18:08I could be at home just living it up with the Royal Mail millions. Unfortunately, they blew it. I think they blew it all. I don't know why it's called Royal Mail any longer. I don't think it's not owned by royalty. And he's owned by some foreign company, isn't it? Probably, isn't it? It's a bit depressing. I don't think you should call it Royal Mail. I think Sir Roland Hill would be pretty depressed. He'd be turning his grave. And they're charging so much for a stamp now, Charles. I just only use second class now. Can't afford first class. No, but I do still use first class. I wrote a letter of condolence this week.

18:38I still write letters of condolence. I still write thank you letters. And they pay off. You know, I wrote a nice thank you letter because I really was thrilled to Sir James Dyson thanking him. And we're of the same vintage. And he wrote me a letter back, a handwritten letter back, saying I was so startled to get a handwritten thank you letter that I'm sending you a handwritten thank you letter to thank you for your handwritten thank you letter. That can go on forever. Yeah, and then he sent us some strawberries, which was very nice. So I do thank you letters, condolence letters, and special letters by hand because I think it's nice to do that.

19:16but mostly and i put a first-year stamp on but mostly i'm afraid it's email now yeah i know and i know because i've looked at your phone there are at least 475 emails unopened no i've deleted them they were junk mail they're not i don't unopen important email i get a lot of junk but the emails that come you always do these the emails that come to us i know you open that's in a separate these are emails that were going to you personally they're they're things you know when you sign up for stuff you probably don't do things like i do like internet shopping you sign up you have to sign up and then suddenly next thing you know you're getting emails from sports direct for the next 27 years and some of them i'm afraid i don't open sorry sports direct that's okay that's good but you do open all the ones from our listeners i do and i have to say they're lovely lovely ones what is the address people write to if they want to get in touch Hello at rosebudpodcast.com.

20:10Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. If you happen to be a direct descendant of Sir Roland Hill, and you could trump Harriet Jane, who is, her forebear was merely the brother or sister of Sir Roland Hill, do feel free to get in touch. No, wait. So someone did. Giles, I'm sorry. I can't believe I didn't mention this. I got an email from someone called Isabella Warren. Dear Harriet and Giles, I'm a keen follower of your podcast. I was listening today to your discussion about families and pricked up my ears when I heard Harriet saying one of her ancestors was Sir Roland Hill. He was also one of mine. I couldn't quite remember the connection, so I did a little research on the family tree I have at home and found I'm related to him through the Simons and Mial, M-I-A-L-L, it's an interesting name, families.

20:59I was wondering how Harriet is connected to him. We're probably extremely distant cousins. my son is called roland without the w as this name has recurred in further generations down the line best wishes isabella warren we want to find out more about this i know you must do a little bit of research find out whether it was a brother or a sister of roland hill that you are and let's have a get together let's find a direct descendant of roland hill and maybe we can discover what their first memories were. Oh, that would be good. I hope it's got to do with stamps. I think so. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah.

21:38Okay. Is it time for Diaries? It is. We're still in 1968. Yeah. I'm at Oxford University and well, let's see what happens. People maybe can remember what's been happening so we won't do too much of a resume. It's the spring. Friday the 26th of April 1968. Lunch with William Waldergrave at Five Folly Bridge. It's very comfortable, but then he is the son of an earl and an old Etonian, effortlessly courteous and unselfconsciously charming. I am self-consciously charming. There is a difference, alas. He's also highly intelligent. I like him, and we agree that Enoch Powell's river of foaming blood speech on immigration was unacceptable and that Heath had no choice but to sack him from the shadow cabinet.

22:30What Powell says may be what half the population thinks, but it doesn't make it right. Are you familiar with this? Does this story ring a bell with you at all? Well, no, I'm just constantly struck by how much your diary resonates today. You know, how many, well, what good eye you had back then for spotting the things, I think. That's part of it. You know, the things you mention are the things which still resonate because you have a good eye for what's current. Well, I was interested in politics. This was a front page story. But this, you know, this speech obviously is still very relevant today and is referred to often.

23:07And, you know, with Nigel Farage and everything that's going on with immigration, people still remember it. Sir Keir Starmer, our present prime minister, made a speech in which he had a phrase about people feeling strangers in their own country. Yes. And he later came to say he hadn't actually read the speech. Somebody had written it for him. And on reflection, it's not a phrase he would have used. It's a bit much if you actually speak the speech. I know. But anyway, but people said there were echoes of this speech. And the background to it is that earlier that week on the 21st of April in Birmingham, Enoch Powell, he had said that Britain must be literally mad as a nation to allow 50 ,000 dependents of immigrants into the country each year.

23:48And this was the phrase that upset people. I am filled with foreboding, he said. Like the Roman, I see the Tiber foaming with much blood. he was a classical scholar that's how he justified that phrase but edward heath who was then the leader of the opposition later became prime minister immediately sacked him relieved from his post he was shadow defense secretary um and both william and i we were you know bless us young conservatives and we were heath supporters and we obviously felt that heath was right um so Interesting. Very interesting. On we go. Thursday the 2nd of May in 1968, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II visited the Oxford Union today.

24:34As a consequence, Trinity term at the Union should have begun with a bang. In fact, the event was such a damp squib that was barely a whimper. Her Majesty came in to wild applause and happy cheering, Harold Macmillan twinkling at her side. But when the cheering stopped, a sudden chill filled the atmosphere. There was a silence and a palpable awkwardness in the hall. There were 800 of us there, I suppose, and because of the presence of the Queen, none of us could be normal. The debate itself was dismal, dull as ditch water, so restrained everyone on best behaviour. It was actually rather a dreadful evening.

25:14Once the excitement of seeing the Queen at close quarters had worn off, tedium set in. Afterwards, I reprimanded William for not carrying Her Majesty's umbrella for her as he escorted her across the courtyard. He told me the Queen insists on holding her own umbrella, always. If someone else holds it, the rain trickles down her neck. Is there anything she didn't think of? Yes. Brilliant. But interestingly, as you know, later I came to meet the Queen and I eventually wrote a big biography of her. And what I described there, I came to become very familiar with. Whenever the Queen was there, there was a kind of invisible moat around her.

25:58Nobody was quite normal. And this was a group of people doing it. I know. It's so well observed. And it must have been rather awful for her, don't you think? That feeling that whenever you went into a room, no one could relax and nothing fun would happen. Poor her. Years later, but not that long ago, oh, I'm only just remembering this. I met with Lady Susan Hussey. Yeah. Who is actually the sister of William Waltergrave. Oh, really? And was the lady-in-waiting to the Queen on this particular day. That may be why it all happened. Yeah. And she told me, oh, we had such fun afterwards. I said, she said, because the Queen said to Harold Macmillan, how are you getting home?

26:43and he said I don't know I'm going to go in a car and the queen said would you like to come in the royal train and so Harold McMillan had been prime minister and was then chancellor of the University of Oxford but was an old man and Lady Susan Hussey said to me we took Harold McMillan the queen the queen took Harold McMillan and I was there too said Lady Susan Hussey on this train back to London from Oxford and he she said he was so funny he just sat there and he told us wonderful stories and the Queen laughed and I laughed. We were just, the three of us, on the train with Harold Macmillan hearing these amazing stories beautifully told.

27:21So the day ended happily for the Queen. Good, I'm glad she had a bit of fun. It sounds like it could have been quite tedious being the Queen sometimes.

27:37Thursday the 9th of May 1968. My day in Paris has been memorable. I landed at Le Bourget at 8.50am. As I emerged first off the plane, I was gratified to find a crowd of several hundred well-wishers. A crowd of several hundred well-wishers corralled on the other side of the tarmac, waving and cheering. Whistles blew, flashbulbs popped, and then the noise subsided. It turned out they were not waiting for me on my way to interview the Aga Khan, They were waiting for Ho Chi Minh due to arrive from North Vietnam today for the Paris peace talks. Oh, wow. Isn't that amazing? Amazing. This is the beginning of the end of the Vietnam War.

28:21And I, for the university, for the magazine ISIS, I've gone to Paris to interview the Argo Khan. It's all happening here. Forrest Gump. Forrest Gump. It's all happening here. There are armed police on every street corner. but north of the Seine, it is relatively calm and much as normal. Go south of the river, though, and you're suddenly in a city in the middle of a revolution. Burnt out cars, pulled up paving stones, streets closed off. These are les événements of 1968. I'd forgotten this. There was student revolt around the world. We talked about this with Tariq Ali, didn't we, when we did a podcast with him.

28:59And you talk about being in a taxi and it's shaking. I think we're going to come to this. around the Sorbonne there are barricades and tanks and armoured vehicles everywhere you turn at the start of the week there was full-scale rioting i saw no fighting but for safety's sake i took a taxi and crossing the boulevard saint germain we had to negotiate our way through a throng of protesting students on the march the taxi proceeded quite slowly and at first all was well then suddenly our car seemed to catch the attention of a group of the protesters and they turned on the vehicle and chanting and jeering began to rocket to and fro.

29:35I looked out of the window desperately trying to show them that I was a student too. The driver pressed on honking his horn and eventually the students let us pass. It was an alarming few minutes. The Ile de la Cité appeared deserted. You'd never have known that les événements were taking place half a mile away. At 6.20pm, as instructed by Miss Bishop, secretary to His Highness Shah Karim Aga Khan IV, I made my way down a squalid back street to 10 rue Chanouinesse. I rang a bell, climbed to the third floor, and was admitted to a plush suite of offices. I waited, and Miss Bishop appeared. You haven't brought a tape recorder, have you?

30:22No, I said. She looked relieved. His Highness won't want you to have a tape recorder, she smiled He will only ask the questions we agreed Of course, I said She took me down into the street and showed me a little alleyway leading to the Rue des Ursin When I get there, do I ring the doorbell? I asked There's no need, she said Good luck When I reached the house, I couldn't see a doorbell or a knocker The front door was wooden, covered with heavy metal studs As I climbed the steps, it swung slowly open. A servant in a white jacket stood within. Monsieur Brandreth, son Altesse vous attend. The house was entirely lit by candlelight, a blaze of candlelight.

31:12Wow. I followed the servant along a corridor, up a winding staircase along another corridor to a double door. Without knocking, the flunky pushed open the doors and bowed low, murmuring as he did so, Altesse, Monsieur Bradouette, Altesse. The Aga Khan is thirty-one, slim, lithe, handsome, although the hairline is receding. He was sitting on a chaise longue, facing the door. He got to his feet at once and bounded towards me, smiling, hand outstretched, Giles, welcome, come in, so good to meet you. he is a direct descendant of muhammad the prophet through muhammad's daughter fatima i was very pleased to shake his hand i was very pleased to meet him at once he said what would you like to drink i couldn't think what to say my mind went blank then i blurted out an orange juice he didn't respond i thought i'd said the wrong thing until five minutes later when from behind a tapestry in the far corner of the room, another white-jacketed flunky emerged carrying a silver salver with on it a huge glass of freshly squeezed blood-red orange juice.

32:25The Aga Khan definitely did not order the drink. The man must have been hovering behind the arras, listening. His Highness showed me around the room. We looked at family photographs. We stopped by a huge globe and I asked him to show me some of the countries where his people live. He's the leader of 15 million Ismaili Muslims around the world and what he says goes. Because they were in danger of persecution, 3 ,000 Muslims left South Africa at his command. My interview was about his life and work as a spiritual leader. I said that in the West, fewer are committing themselves to religion. he said the reverse was true in the muslim world there is now more attendance at mosque and equal devotion he was softly spoken very gentle earnest and sincere he was frequently self-deprecating he talked several times about his lack of self-assurance i stayed with him until gone eight o 'clock knowing that this was his first ever interview i asked him why he agreed to see me because you are a student he said and you wrote a very persuasive letter i left feeling that i'd been in the presence of a special human being writing up the interview won't be easy that is a brilliant extract of diary can i just say well you're very kind i was on the edge of my seat this actually happened to you i'm listening to it like it's a story it's so good this happened And this happened, and somewhere, of course, I've got all the notes.

34:03And somewhere, of course, I've got the printed interview that I eventually did. And this Aga Khan only died quite recently. He died the other year or so ago. So I know you explain a bit in that, but I'm afraid I don't really know who the Aga Khan or what the Aga Khan is. Well, he is a religious leader. He is the leader. But he's not the leader of a country or anything. No, because they're spread all over the world. The Ismaili Muslims. Exactly. they have them all over the world they have a big center in london opposite the museums in kensington and oh yeah uh he was a he was a good man and what is interesting about this to me now is i'm sharing with him that like me people are fewer people are committing to faith in our part of the world and he is telling me the reverse is true in the muslim world and this is 55 60 years ago and it's interesting that all this was happening and anyway we have seen manifestations of this he also was relatively serious he came from a playboy family he had a famous i think his predecessor was actually his grandfather and there was his father maybe was called ali khan and was famous of being rather large and having a lot of resources the family was enormously rich.

35:20He spent a lot of time on race courses. So they weren't pious? No, they weren't pious. They weren't pious. They were quite westernised. But he was quite young. And at that time, I don't know where he was married. He did marry once and then I'm afraid he got divorced and married a second time. So there was, over the years, there was a bit of form. What kind of spiritual leader is this person? But that's the impression I got of him on that day. So it's a little like meeting the Dalai Lama, is it? It's very like meeting the Dalai Lama. Yeah. And clearly, I'd written him a good letter. Clearly? And I dared to write.

35:59I wrote to a lot of interesting people. Where did you get his address? There was a publication this year. It's called Who's Who. Oh, yeah. And people in those days, they weren't so security-minded. People put their addresses in Who's Who. I've been writing this biography, as you know, of A.A. Milne, and I've got copies of Who's Who from the 1930s. And in there, you'll find all the leading people of the day, people in the government, people who become prime minister, etc., people like Winston Churchill. They put their home address and their telephone number. Amazing. In Who's Who. Yeah. It was a different world.

36:33Wow. I mean, the phone directory, you could just look people up, couldn't you? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dear. Oh. Thursday, the 16th of May, 1968. Diana Quick is 21. dark beautiful pouting and the first female president in the history of the oxford university dramatic society when i went to meet her for the first time she was wearing a leather miniskirt that's in italics by the way leather and the exclamation mark after miniskirt we had a drink in a pub she was both exciting to be with and a bit alarming but she encouraged me in my ambition to direct an OUDS production at the Playhouse, and today I went for the audition.

37:19And got the job. I'm quite surprised. I had to rehearse a scene in front of the OUDS committee. Diana played the girl in the scene. I think it was asking her to suggest desire by putting her top teeth over her lower lip that clinched it. Anyway, I'm delighted. They want me to do a traditional Victorian pandemonium. should be fun lunch at the Taj Mahal restaurant with Fred Burnley BBC TV director I liked him at once though I'm not sure what he made of me he's making a TV film with Kenneth Tynan Kenneth Tynan was really the most famous theatre critic of his generation and famously he'd become the first person to say fuck on television in 1965 though I think our friend Miriam Margulies on our podcast disputed that and said when she had been on University Challenge, she'd been heard muttering fuck.

38:18And that had been the first time. Of course she had. Come on. Anyway, and he was the creator of an erotic review called Oh Calcutta. So we're going to discover a bit more about him in these diaries. It's for a series called One Pair of Eyes and will be about Oxford 20 years ago when Tynan was here and the Wunderkind and Oxford now. Apparently, I'm to feature in the film as the Tynan of my generation. I sent out my letters in bright orange envelopes. Tynan used Peacock Blue. Union debate. This house regrets the invention of television. I joined the speakers for dinner. John Wells, good to see him, and David Frost.

39:01Friendly, unctuous, very bad skin. Letter in response to mine from the director of the Department of Public Safety in the state of Illinois. The executions of Cannon and Cochran have been stayed pending appeal. These were teenagers, and I got very exercised by this. They were murderers. They belonged to a gang called the Dell Vikings, and they were due for execution. And I was one of many people, I'm sure, who wrote. And I'm interested that I got a reply. They were granted a reprieve. Friday the 24th of May 1968. Yesterday, lunch with Diana Quick. Great name, great girl. And Michael Coveney. He is to be my choreographer on the pantomime.

39:50Tiny, slight, very pleasant. I've settled on Cinderella. Byron's Cinderella. No, not Lord Byron. H.J. Byron, Victorian playwright and humorist. The man who observed that life is too short for chess. tea with venicia thomas at somerville she is lovely i'm sorry harriet i have not seen that name i mean i must have seen it once or twice but i haven't thought about her in 60 years i can actually picture the room wow union chat with tarik ali i can understand why he might me a touch ridiculous, but he has no idea why I might think the same of him. The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.

40:39Midnight, 4am, write history essay. And you know, when we invited him to join us on Rosebud, Terragali, it was the first time I'd seen him probably since 1968. Yes, yeah. I don't think he remembered, did he? No. But you'd had anchovy toast. Anchovy toast with him. Yeah. I liked him. It was a very interesting podcast wasn't it? I think judging by what you say there that he must have softened quite a lot because he didn't feel like someone that was raging with passionate intensity. No. He felt a really fun and interesting person who could have a laugh at himself and at the world. Thursday the 30th of May 1968.

41:20Day working on speech. Genial lunch with Clive Siddle, a nice man and generous. Not something we see a lot of in Oxford. 7pm, to Union for Eight's Week, funny debate. A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, but a great deal of it is absolutely fatal. The speakers, me, Viscount Lewisham, the Earl of Arran, boofuls to his friends, James Robertson Justice, Michael Beloff and Christopher Hollis. A nice dinner. I sat next to James Robertson Justice, a wonderful companion, and opposite Diana Quick. The debate was something else. Both the BBC and German TV filmed my speech. The house was appalling, so sticky, refusing to laugh.

42:06The speech was not a total flop, but a great disappointment, though the others fared no better. I suppose, hope, that once edited, it'll look okay. I saw Venetia there. I was pleased she'd come, but I'm sorry it was such a dead affair. At least it's over now. Soon forgotten too, one hopes. Saturday, 1st of June, 1968. In France, de Gaulle is standing firm. He will concede nothing to the protesting students, nor anyone else. He has been elected. He is in command. L 'état, c 'est moi. In England, Brandreth is down by the river, affecting to enjoy Eights Week for the benefit of a BBC and German film crews.

42:53Boating and quaffing pims are not really for me, and it probably shows. Brecht is not really for me either. I rehearsed my scene for Tim Mabey's show, Bert Lives, devised from Bert O 'Brick's writing. It's a pretentious shambles. Tuesday, the 4th of June, 1968 The fourth day of the Cinderella auditions I'm holding them in New College cloisters in the music room It's a wearying process I'm looking for the girl of my dreams, a fairy tale princess

43:30And perhaps at last I've found her Michelle Brown, St Anne's, came today 21, dark hair, beautiful she could be a perfect cinders she has the look but does she have the voice or technique sally has sent me a lock of her hair well this is intriguing for a number of reasons one i always thought the date was the 6th of june so if you'd ask me i thought it was the 6th of june the day we met clearly i've got it wrong by two days um and um but michelle the Michelle Brown here is the person who is upstairs now, who is still my wife. So there you go. 1968, and here we are, 2025. What is also interesting, though, and is this of some significance?

44:22I don't know. But on the day I met my future, my past in the shape of Sally, sent me a lock of her hair. Yeah, that's interesting, isn't it? I wonder why she did that. Well, maybe she was torn. Yeah, she obviously was. It was two years of our life, and also a teenager. Yeah, you're just always sending locks of hair to people, aren't you? Using the postal system, no doubt. Well, when we get into the boxes next door for 1968, let's see if there's a little envelope with the lock of her hair. Oh, gosh. Wow, I can't wait to go through this box, Charles. Can I just ask you a personal question, which is possibly an impertinent question, which is, were you conducting these Cinderella auditions as a kind of, you know, were you auditioning people to be your wife?

45:14Or were you trying to find Cinderella? I'm 20 years of age. Yeah. Okay. Mitigating circumstances, Your Honour. So, and clearly, I am really taken with lots of girls. You clearly are. But maybe that's what 20-year-olds are. I mean, you were a 20-year-old girl once. Yeah, yeah. And you've told me of some of the people, indeed one person, I'm not going to name who, who's actually been a guest on Rosebud, who maybe took a fancy to you when you were university. Yeah, and if I look back at my diary, there are a lot of boys' names. Exactly. So, yes, I also at the same time was conducting this competition.

45:56I had read a wonderful novel by Max Birbham, who was a favourite author of my father. I remember my father had this Edwardian feel to him. It was a satirical novel about Edwardian Oxford, and it was called Zulika Dobson. And in it, it features this character, a divinely beautiful girl called Zulika Dobson, who scorns her many undergraduate suitors, driving them to take their own lives. She is so desirable. and my idea was to have a Zuleika Dobson competition to find a modern Zuleika and I was going around choosing eight girls as finalists so I'd given myself the licence to go around saying I'm recreating the novel, the great novel written by Max Beerbam and I'm looking for the most beautiful, brilliant girls in Oxford.

46:46It's like a sort of Clever Clogs Miss World conducted by Branderick. And literally, I went round libraries and awful things. I remember going around with a friend of mine, David Graham, and he said, we're not going to find any in the science labs, are we? I said, that's not the right attitude. Oh, child. But the point is, for Cinderella, I was looking. Of course, I wanted a fairy tale princess. Yeah. You want somebody, by definition. Yeah. But, I mean, let's face it, I've just seen Michelle, and I'm actually putting in my diary, I'm looking for the girl of my dreams, a fairytale princess. Perhaps at last I've found her.

47:23Wow. It's fantastic. So forget Sally, move over Venetia. Where's Leslie in all this? It seems something else is happening. Well, let's discover. Thank goodness Michelle's first mention is so favourable. It would be bad if it wasn't, wouldn't it? We might put up on, wherever we put these things up, a photograph of her at the time. and you will see. And interestingly, I didn't know at that time that that term, I'll discover this later, as you know, one of my other fixations was, and still is, Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. Along with Joan of Arc. But Alice in Wonderland, Michelle, I think, was playing Alice in somebody else's production of Alice in Wonderland that very term.

48:09That's by the way. Giles, you're ridiculous. I mean, you know you're ridiculous, don't you? You are ridiculous. Sending myself up for you. Alison Wands and Hans, like a Dobson. Just sending myself up. Joan of Arc, brilliant. Actually, if you're listening, and you too have had these moments in your life, please write in, A, to defend me, and B, to say it's not that unusual, Harriet. Yes. We are what we are. It's fun, it's fun. And obviously, by virtue of it being a diary, it's more revelatory than perhaps one might like in retrospect. No, it's good. Thursday the 6th of June, 1968. Lunch with William Waltergrave, a thoroughly nice person.

48:46He's very cut up about the Robert Kennedy assassination. Kennedy was shot and wounded in Los Angeles, and he just won the California U.S. presidential primary. Plan to film Cinderella auditions foiled. Forbidden by the warden. We have had enough of Mr. Brandler's antics. Oh, child. I think I'd hoped the BBC could film me conducting these auditions. Sherry party in my room for potential Zulikas. A pretty motley gang. But Fred seems happy with the look of them. We're filming The Crowning on the banks of the ISIS next Wednesday. So I had to bring these girls to meet the director of the television programme for him to see whether they came up to snuff.

49:37and what a 20-year-old boy thinks might be different from what a 36-year-old television producer thinks. That's true, yeah.

49:51Saturday, 8th June, 1968. 6.15pm. Garden cocktails at Corpus Christi College. Take Michelle. Already enchanted. Drink pretty potent. well I've moved pretty swiftly haven't I met her on the 4th of June 8th of June we're going to Corpus Christi College on to a party on the St Catherine's Barge BBC filming it but the evenings of failure I danced a lot with Kathleen Tynan she was Kent Tynan's wife Tynan himself was in a filthy humour throughout Robin Day turned up for a while I chatted to him he was very merry when I talked with Tynan and he was very scratchy, told me to go off and dance some more with his wife.

50:38He kept saying, this is boring, nothing's happening. Nothing was. He produced a five-pound note from his wallet and held it up, saying he'd give it to any girl who would take off her top for him. I want to see some young tits. I want to see something happening. Fred was upset because Tynan was upset. There's nothing to film because there's nothing to see. The girls all sensibly kept their tops on. So, to be obliging at midnight, fully clothed, I threw myself off the barge and into the river. Oh, well done, Giles. I tried to save the night. No, that is very good of you. You took one for the team, as it were.

51:19It would. I'm glad you kept the top on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, frankly, now Mr. Tynan would not just be cancelled to be the front page of the national newspapers. I mean, you said times have changed, but times have changed. There's a BBC programme being made. I want to see some young tits. Oh, dear me. Interestingly, I think we were quite shocked. No, that's pretty much. That's too much. And none of the girls responded. No. They're at Oxford. They're at Oxford. They're better than that. They are better than that. Sunday the 9th of June, 1968. Breakfast with Fred at the Randolph. He wasn't much happier.

51:58Talked briefly with Robin Day. He was very full of himself. He felt he'd had a successful row with Tynan the night before. Just what I enjoy. Rehearsing the appalling Bert Lives. That was the Bert Albrecht show. Monday the 10th of June, 1968. Phone national newspaper picture desks to alert them to Zuleika filming on Wednesday. More auditions. Dinner with Michelle. A bad first meal, really. Stilted. We went for a Chinese. I paid, but I asked for the bill, thinking I could give it to the BBC or the German TV company and claim expenses. Michelle was not impressed. All the usual stuff fell flat. I asked her questions she wouldn't answer.

52:46Ended up holding hands and kissing. Unsatisfactory. Curious. Tuesday, the 11th of June, 1968. 7.30am. Rehearse. Bert lives. Brecht before breakfast. Can you believe it? Lunch with Diana Quick. 2 p.m. Record interview with William Waldergrave and Ken Tynan in Union President's office. Some of it goes well, but I was pompous when William was so natural. Tynan is not a comfortable creature. He smokes all the time, holding his cigarette out effectively. He is sex-obsessed and never anything but spiky. I wanted to talk to him about Olivier and Marlena Dietrich, of course, but he only wants to talk about who we fuck and how.

53:35Evening, Michelle. Wednesday, the 12th of June, 1968. AM, filming Zuleika Dobson Award. Eight girls, Nunciata Asquith, Charlotte Gray, Kathy Henderson,

53:57The most beautiful girls of their generation, all in evening dresses. Self as judge in dinner jacket. Set off together from my room at 10.15am, down Rose Lane in a procession of vintage cars, led by a horse, ridden by Julian Radcliffe. we filmed the luncheon table sequence i made a short speech and gave annunciata the crown annunciata was fred's choice he was adamant unaided i would certainly have picked either michelle or kirsty presentation over the girls all left i then walked into the river boring lunch with is that a reference from the book well they throw themselves the men throw themselves into the river they commit suicide for unrequited love yeah okay so i did it slowly walking into the river yeah nice and the footage occasionally crops up on television um and it is quite traumatic because i i walked in my dinner suit down into the river and disappeared under the water and then my commitment to the show was so great i swam under the water until i was below the camera which was in a boat in front of me well done it's the second time you've been in the river fully clothed that week which i'm pretty impressed by child i wouldn't put you in in the river in your clothes but you obviously were doing it a lot boring lunch with zan smiley and friends successful production meeting at playhouse dinner at the randolph with fred and the bbc crew and michelle and two of the girls and julian and David, two good, decent and selfless men.

55:37Oh, and yes. Oh, and yes, I think I have a history essay to write. It's coming up to midnight. I'd better start it now. Oh dear. Yeah, work, taking very much a backseat. So, just to clarify, because I'm not sure you've said, this Sue Leica Dobson thing, what's the BBC's role in it? Have they sort of commissioned you to do this? No, they are filming One Peel of Eyes with Ken Tynan. I'm the modern Kentinan so they're filming my activities my antics they filmed me at the Oxford Union I wanted them to film the Cinderella auditions they filmed my Zuleika Dobson competition so they're filming what I'm doing and so had you had you put this Zuleika Dobson on kind of thinking it's a good thing to put in this no they asked what are you doing at the moment and I said I've got this Zuleika Dobson competition they said we'd like to film that So I showed them what I was doing.

56:33I can't imagine another person at Oxford that they could have pitched up with. And they say, what are you doing? And you say, well, I'm doing a competition in which I audition. I mean, Giles, you are one of a kind. But they're beautiful girls, but they're also brilliant girls. Of course. Because bear in mind that in those days, I think 10 % of the students at Oxford are female. No, no, no, you've said this before. So these are bright people. I mean, one could question whether they should be reduced to being just... I'm sorry? Beauty queens. Basically a beauty pageant organised by you. Excuse me.

57:10For these intelligent women. Deified. Oh, come off it. Put on a pedestal. Oh, women don't want this. Well, I'm sorry. I'm recreating what Max Beerbohm wrote in his famous novel. Oh, it's fine then. The brilliance and beauty of these women and the unrequited nature of their relationship with the men drove the men to throw themselves into the river. So that's what I was doing. Yeah. Thursday the 13th of June. Thursday the 13th of June, 1968. Good picture of those who like a Dobson event on page four of the Daily Mail. Oh, I think I've seen that. And amazing centre spread in the Daily Mirror under the headline, after picking the beauty contest winner, the judge walked off in a sort of daze.

57:57There are six pictures, One of me and an unciata, the rest of me walking straight into the river, submerging, disappearing. Young Brandreth looked into her eyes and, smitten, turned away in a daze. Seeing no more the wondrous woodland, smelling no more the scent of summer, he walked plumb into the river and vanished. Dash pity, really. Such a promising lad. Is this in the Daily Mirror? This is in the Daily Mirror. Times have changed so much. Can you imagine that being in the Daily Mirror now? Lunch with Rona Bower. She agrees to play Cinderella. I've offered Michelle a part in the chorus. She has declined.

58:40She's going to play Viola in the Queen's College production of Twelfth Night. Good choice. Friday the 14th of June. Lunch, Michelle. Kevin Packham comes round with a man from independent television who has an interesting filming job for me. A series could be exciting. I have to go for a meeting in London on Monday. Union election. Get elected secretary. The folk in the union bar booed when the result was announced, but the figures showed quite a convincing victory. I suppose this must be reckoned the most successful week of my life. Some good TV filming, a centre spread in the country's biggest-selling newspaper, election as Secretary of the Oxford Union, and Michelle.

59:26All things I dream about, and now it's happened, I feel just the same. Luckier, perhaps, but no happier. Odd. Saturday, the 15th of June, 1968. It turns out that the man from independent television who came round yesterday was nothing of the sort. It was a hoax, a rather mean practical joke conjured up by Kevin Pakenham. Interesting, isn't it? So clearly some people didn't like me very much. To the Maxwell ball... Were you hurt by that then, Charles? Yes. Well, I think it made me... I think what it made me realise was that I was irritating some people and I think he thought he was being amusing putting him in my place, which in a sense he was.

1:00:19And obviously I was aware, I was interested in that earlier reference to when the election result coming through, I mean, you know, union elections, you boo, you cheer, but I was conscious that when my result came through, I was booed by the people in the bar, though I note the actual figures, I won comfortably. So, you know, I was aware of that. To the Maxwell Ball at Headington Hill Hall, 9pm to 3am. It was beautifully done, with drinks in the house, dinner in the marquee, dancing and breakfast on the lawn. It nearly went awry in the Maxwell drawing room. I was entertaining the crowd with my impression of Robert Maxwell, hunched forward, gurgling and growling, when suddenly I felt a heavy hand on my shoulder.

1:01:08I turned around and it was him. Oh, gosh. He gazed at me steadily, and then slowly he began to chuckle. He could have finished you off, Giles. I've never been to a party like it. We all had formal dance cards with little pencils attached to them with a red string, telling us to choose five different partners for five special dances. There was a band, a pop group, a discotheque, and steaks and ribs served at the barbecue between dinner and breakfast. A fantastic spread. It could have been perfect, and would have been, but for an unpleasant moment, when Peter Adamson accosted me and told me to keep my hands off his wife.

1:01:53Ah. Ah. How interesting. That's all I put in the diary. Yeah, and also... Now you see, I remember, maybe it comes up somewhere else in the diary. I do, I mean, I remember the moment. Gosh. I mean, he accosted me. I mean, I think he pushed me to the ground or even hit me. I mean, I remember seeing a fist. Anyway, yeah. Funnily enough, she hasn't had, Leslie hasn't had many mentions for the last few weeks. Yeah. But maybe it had been bubbling along. Oh, dear. Anyway, well, hopefully it hasn't learned. Let's see. Saturday, the 22nd of June, 1968. A note from Rona Bauer. She can't play Cinderella.

1:02:41Her tutors have told her she's got to work. It's bad news, but I don't feel desperate. I have Nigel Osborne as my musical director. He's going to be very good. He became a composer, a famous composer. He was a great musician. I was not going to have him. With Michelle to New College Boojum's party at noon. On to perform Bert Lives at Oxford Prison. The inmates liked it. They really did. Sent telegram to Michelle. oh yes i regularly sent telegrams to michelle do you know what a telegram is yes i did this even though new college and saint anne's they were only a mile or so apart and there was a twice daily messenger service that delivered letters between the colleges but this was my dramatic way it's very romantic so i sent a lot of telegrams to a lot evening with michael coveney saw Germans refilming New College Ball.

1:03:35Julian Radcliffe is in charge of security, so it will be tight. Sunday, 23rd June, 1968. Join Michelle at St Anne's at noon. Lunch at the Ox in the Cellar. Stay in all afternoon. 6pm. Drinks with Michelle's friends, including Christopher Hampton, who wrote When Did You Last See My Mother? He's very charming, a true writer who lives for his writing. get a little drunk sup at ghastly pub back to M's until the curfew at 11pm she is determined somehow to remain a rolling stone I'll fight it Christopher Hampton is the Christopher Hampton who took a shine to her as I think had Kevin Pagnum who I now remember was the person who directed to tell us that was in Wonderland.

1:04:30So that may explain this. Yeah, you had some rivals. Yeah, but she's... Playing hard to get. Yeah. You obviously like that, Giles. Yeah. Oh. Okay. To dream the impossible dream. Return to New College after 11 strange stroke wonderful hours with her. Monday the 24th of June 1968, sitting in room contemplating essay on the collapse of the Russian Duma. When Christopher Hampton called round with Bob Kidd, who is directing Jane Asher in Summer at the Playhouse. Gosh. Robert Kidd was a professional. He was a grown-up. He was a theatre director, particularly associated with the Royal Court and, indeed, the early plays of Christopher Hampton.

1:05:18Jane Asher was then, and still is, a famous, wonderful actress. They wanted new college ball tickets for Jane and possibly Paul McCartney, her Beatle boyfriend. Said, I'd do what I could to help. Wow. 5pm. Go join Michelle at St Anne's. Eat in pub. Perfect girl. Reach ball at 11pm. Julian manning the barricades as though new college was the bridge at Arnhem. Report to German film crew as planned, but everybody irritable. Shoot three sequences. Find Jane Asher and Bob Kidd. No sign of Paul McCartney, but signs that Bob has his eye on Jane. They're an enchanting couple. She's so freckled. We talked a lot.

1:06:06I asked her to play Cinders for me. She'll think about it. And she's going to let me have her recipe for a perfect chocolate mousse. She was tired, so I left her to sleep in my bed. Yes, I can now say that Jane Asher slept in my bed. We parted at about 5.30am Agreed to meet on Wednesday for summer at the Playhouse It was a wonderful night Jane and Bob, young and amusing and appreciative and gentle Michelle, perfect Wednesday, the 26th of June, 1968 Tony Hancock has died He has committed suicide in Sydney Very sad At his best, he was the best Completely brilliant Gillian Cook the editor of Honey magazine called small, bouncy, eager she didn't want to chat her she simply wanted to ask me to write a regular column a man's eye on the dollies I said I'd do a dummy for her marvellous if it happens I don't think it was a hoax Honey was a big magazine a young women's magazine this was the editor turned up at my rooms in New College to make this request joined Michelle at St Anne's supped at pub joined Bob Kidd and Chris Hampton at Gloucester Arms got comps for summer the play was whimsical and quite funny but I don't think it'll run gathered afterwards for a drink Bill Gaskell there rather smooth but kind Jane gentle and lovely Thursday the 27th of June 1968 joined Michelle at 9.30am helped her with her luggage trained to London via Parr in Leicester Square to BBC Television Centre where Fred Burnley met us and gave us lunch.

1:07:54He said he'd been dining with Cyril Bennett, head of London Weekend Television, who wants to give me my own show.

1:08:04This is not a hoax, and if it happens, it will change everything. Watch the rushes of the Tynan film. The interview is not so bad as I feared. Fred was all charm but not uncritical he says I'm far too mannered and not at all modern he asked me what was top of the pops this week it seems the answer is jumping Jack Flash from the Rolling Stones but I had no idea he suggested I start reading New Musical Express took Michelle to Chilling Cross to catch her train to Ashford and Kent where her family live I do adore her so sent her a telegram Wow Wow, my gosh How much happened that term, child? But this is truly bizarre I'm a student at university and newspaper magazine editors are coming to my rooms to ask me to write a column about the dollies and I'm being told that the head of London Weekend Television wants to give me my own show I mean, no wonder some people found you irritating.

1:09:17Impossible. Impossible, yeah. Ghastly. Deary me. Because were you good, because now I think you get away with it because you're very good at laughing at yourself and you don't take yourself too seriously. I'm not like this anymore, Charlie. But were you good at that back then or were you a bit... No, I don't think I took myself seriously at all. You weren't full of yourself, were you? No, no. No. And in fairness to me, there was a serious side to me. Yeah. Long side all of this, some of my interest in theatre was proper theatre. Yeah. And the prison staff was all going on. But I suppose I was seen as a sort of bumptious, puffed up.

1:10:00And I was doing all these things. Yeah. You know. And some people don't like, you know, the world is full of slackers. Maybe they don't like somebody who tries too hard. Yeah. I was trying. Yeah. I was running about all the time. Yes, yeah. And I clearly created a myth about myself, famously, not famously to me, but the great Christopher Hitchens, who's a contemporary of mine, was a friend of mine, will appear on the diaries, I'm sure. He wrote somewhere in maybe his memoirs about me being at Oxford, sweeping around Oxford in a cape. And somebody did a kind of dramatisation of Chris Hitchens in which this figure appears sweeping around in a cape and it's supposed to be me.

1:10:41I never had a cape. I never swooped around. But that's the kind of impression I gave. But Tynan wore a cape, didn't he? Yes, so maybe he confused me with him. I don't think you're a cape wearer, Giles. I'm not a cape wearer. You're a jumper wearer. I'm a jumper wearer. You're not... A cape wearer really is a bit of a... You know, there's a sort of a real sense of self-love and theatricality. You're not that. No, I mean, I think I was a bit self-deprecating. I mean, I was both bombastic. And uncertain, probably. But you're able to be silly and you're aware of the silliness of life. And the great thing about this, I'll tell you what I love about this, is there are people who haven't become sort of characters, but people like Clive Siddle, who I was mentioned, or David Graham, these are...

1:11:29Aw. These people are still my friends, and they are the most normal, straightforward, decent people you could possibly meet. they're the people you want your daughters to marry yeah yeah i probably wasn't but anyway there we are oh it's fascinating well done that's a really long one by the way i'm so sorry listeners thank you for sticking with it remember on fridays you get a proper conversation where i don't do much talking i do all the listening to somebody interesting and remarkable but we've started the diaries so we better finish them which means it's only in 1968 and we've got to get to 2025 and I have to tell you I've been some remarkable dial interest this week Harriet that's it for this week with more Rosebud listen to you soon or rather hear you soon why do we say see you soon when we can't see them oh but maybe we can see them Harriet and I can look for a few photographs now of me in 1968 yeah good keep in touch bye bye cue the music

1:12:38Thank you.

1:13:16That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth. Thank you for listening.