Gyles's diary, episode 22

0:21It's Tuesday. It means it's more rosebud. Well, I say it's Tuesday. It's Tuesday when we are recording this. It could be any day of the week when you are listening to it. I say we. It is me and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. We are in our studio at Grosvenor House, which is a beautiful hotel in London's Park Lane. And how are you today, Harriet? Oh, I'm very well. Thanks, Charles. Do you notice the little jumper I'm wearing? The piano jumper, yes. It's got keys. Do you know why I'm wearing this? No. Because I've just been to the proms. I imagine you as a girl, because you're into music, did you go to the promenade concerts?

1:01Yes. Yeah, I love the proms. I still go. International listeners. Promenade concerts founded by Sir Henry Wood, based at the Royal Albert Hall in London. Royal Albert Hall, if you haven't been to it, is the most amazing building. 1871. It opened later than expected. Ran over budget. There's nothing new in any of that. anyway named in honour of Prince Albert I what's your best experience at the Royal Albert Hall uh well twice I've seen my own daughter perform there with Haringey young musicians so that's where we live in North London she's in the symphony orchestra and there are something like 1200 children on stage so not only on the stage a stage is full of the orchestra but also in all of the seats near the stage and behind the stage, there are all these children singing.

1:54And at one point, they're all doing it together. And I defy you not to... I mean, I'm sobbing the whole way through because just the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. It's always so moving. And then they always do something cool at the end, like a big glitter drop. Oh, wonderful. And they have a steel band. You know the steel band? What's your daughter's instrument? A violin. A violin. First violin. First violin. She's a very good violinist. Yeah, yeah, she's brilliant. What was your instrument when you were playing? I played the flute. Oh. Which I have to say is, I'm about to offend flautists.

2:33I think it's a bit lame. I now think it's a bit lame and I wish I'd played something a bit cooler. Why do you think it's lame? What are you going to say? It's an instrument that certain type of girl pick when they're 11. and I think I was that certain type of girl and I wish someone had said to me, play the violin because you'll always be needed and there's much more breadth. Or the trombone. Or play the trombone or play the guitar because you can sing along. I played the flute, which is... Anyway, I never play it anymore. Oh, but you still got it? I think I gave it to a friend. I can play the piano a bit, But my daughter's the real talent in that area.

3:19Oh, well, maybe at Christmas we can hear some singing. Maybe she can do a solo for us. She's great. I think fantastic. I still play the triangle. I love the triangle. Indifferently. It's not asking a lot to play the triangle, is it? But I've always got it wrong. I'm counting. All you've got to do is hit it at the right moment. It's not easy, Giles. But getting that right moment, and I've got it wrong because the band leader, the conductor, forgive me, is a long way away. If you're in the percussion section, you're a long way. Yeah. And the time from when he or she indicates it's your moment to receiving the message.

3:56I always misget it. So all I'm asked to do... You're saying there's a delay from the front to the back? Yes. He indicates time for the triangle. I'm nodding back and then I hit it instead of hitting it as he nods. Oh, my goodness. Never get Giles Brandreth to do the triangle. You sound like a disaster, Ariadne. Well, I'll tell you the concert I went to. It was Beethoven's Fifth, which I did a little bit of homework on by listening to our episode of Rosebud with Ludwig van Beethoven, thanks to Tom Matheson. And I learnt, of course, anyone who hasn't heard this episode, do listen to it. It's extraordinary.

4:32He becomes Beethoven. But he didn't talk about the first performance of Beethoven's Fifth, so I did some homework, and I found lots of curiosities about the night it was first performed. It was an evening of Beethoven, four hours of concert, in a concert hall that was really cold. Everyone was shivering. The orchestra apparently was full of amateurs. It wasn't really good. And bizarrely, they got the order muddled up. So they played his sixth symphony before they played his fifth. It was supposed to be the premiere of the fifth. So I think the fifth should actually be called the sixth, and the sixth should be called the fifth.

5:03Oh, gosh. But you love music, don't you? Yes, I do. I'm not a world expert on it. I just, yeah, I like music. The other composer they had was Saint-Saëns. Oh, we've done his Requiem with my choir. Oh, a French composer. Until I was 11, I thought the only composers in the world were French. Because, as you know, I went to the French Lycée in South Kensington, not far from the Royal Albert Hall. And there we were taught in French, by French people, French cultural history. French history. We only thought there were three leaders in the history of the world. They were Charles de Magne, Napoleon and Charles de Gaulle.

5:39Those are the only figures we've heard of. Fair enough. And all the composers were French. Wonderful. And Saint-Sens was held out to us as a role model because he was also an infant prodigy. And at the age of 10, not only could he play the piano and the organ miraculously, but he was brilliant at algebra, science, mathematics, Latin, spoke fluent Latin, spoke fluent Greek, all at the age of 10. Really? He was a remarkable boy. He was like the Giles Brandreth of France. If only, if only. But I was brought up to believe that you should be like Saint-Saëns. So you modelled yourself on Saint-Saëns.

6:14I didn't know he was like that. Who were you given role models when you were a little girl? No, I think mine were more people in storybooks. So it was, you know, Pippi Longstocking or Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or I was obsessed with this book called The Ordinary Princess, which no one's ever read, but I loved it by someone called MMK. and it was about a princess that runs off into the forest and has no shoes on and stuff. MMK, she became quite a famous, she wrote quite a famous adult novel. She wrote a book called The Far Pavilion. The Far Pavilion. My parents knew her because I think her husband was stationed as part of the Allied Commission in Germany after the Second World War.

6:55Molly Kay. Oh, I didn't know she was... I'm going to look up that book. Molly Kay. Well, I loved it. What's it called? The Ordinary Princess. I like the idea of it. The Ordinary Princess. So that's our book recommendation. Um, should we do some, why are we here? We're here to do. We don't know, we're just chatting. We're just wittering away. We're wittering away. It's a diary day though, isn't it? It's another diary day. I'm still only 17 or 18, aren't I? No, I'm about 20 now because we've got to 1968 and it's the start of the summer holidays. But before that, do you want to have an email? Yes, so we've got a lovely email here, which I thought I'd read, which is from someone who is 17 going on 18.

7:36so a similar age actually a little bit younger to the age you are in in the diaries at the moment because you're 20 now and i thought i'd read it partly because it's from one of our young listeners and and that's great to know that we have lovely young listeners dear giles and harriet says amelia stay that's the name of the girl that's emailed in hello i am a 17 almost 18 year old and have been listening to your podcast for the last three months now i've made it through the whole back catalogue and eagerly await each new episode. I love hearing about people's memories, but I especially love the diaries.

8:12In fact, your podcast has inspired me to start keeping a diary myself. I decided now would be a good time for it as I've just finished my A-levels, have a summer of exciting things to look forward to, and in the autumn I'm going to university to study music. depending on my a-level results this will either be at oxford lady margaret hall or southampton i love either option and i know i'll be very happy whatever ends up happening but i'm hoping to get into oxford as i'll be a bit disappointed with myself if i haven't got the grades after so much hard work the recent episodes in which giles has talked about his first terms at oxford have been very interesting to me as i can't help imagining what it will be like if that is where i am to be in a couple of months.

8:59The not knowing is very odd. This summer is also a big one for our family because my nan is moving out of the home she's lived in for the last 55 years, since she and my granddad got married. She's downsizing and going to live in the same village as my uncle, aunt and cousins, which is for the best really, but I can't help feeling sad about it. Her house has nothing but perfect childhood memories associated with it. I love everything about it, the neighbours, the garden, the furniture, much of which was built by my great-grandad. But I think the thing I will miss most is the smell of the house, which just gives me a wash of happiness whenever I walk through the front door to visit her.

9:41My nan, Jill, is a very special person and she features in many of my early memories. One of my first memories is of walking with her through my village near Christmas time. I know exactly what time it was because I remember my mum couldn't come with us as she was heavily pregnant with my little sister who's two and a half years younger than me. It was snowing and the path was very slippery. I was holding on to my nan's hand. I remember I was wearing a pink coat and gloves and a badge with one of the Roger Hargreaves little missus on it. We walked up to the churchyard and outside on a bench someone had built two snowmen which I remember feeling very frightened of.

10:22That same year I also remember getting out of bed very early on Christmas morning and my nan reading The Snowman by Raymond Briggs to me in her bed. I'm very happy to have these lovely early memories of her. Thank you again for your brilliant podcast. It always makes my day. Best wishes, Amelia Stay. Well that email has made my day. I think it's wonderful. I predict for Amelia's day a very successful life. I'm sure she'll get into Lady Margaret Hall at Oxford if that's her first choice. She's clearly brilliant. She writes so well, so fluently. Keep a diary and one day, who knows, it may keep you.

11:02I think she could be a natural writer. Please, this is an archive. People I hope will be listening to this 30, 40, 50 years from now. I guarantee you, you will have heard of Amelia Stay if you're listening to this in a few years' time. Oh, that's nice. Well done, Amelia. Brilliant. And let us know if you've started keeping a diary because I think maybe some people have. And in fact, it reminds me that someone called Paul Howells, who's a big follower of ours on Instagram, he listens to every episode. He sent me some of his teenage diaries and we should read them out. Good. I need to get organised.

11:40Good. You don't need to get any more organised. Oh, I'm very organised. Look, you're spinning so many plates. As regular listeners will know, Harriet has got two teenage children, but she's also in the middle of moving house, building a new house virtually, as well as being the full-time producer of Rosebud. How is the house move going? How are you enjoying where you're staying, your B &B or whatever you call it? Yeah, the Airbnb. Airbnb. Yeah. I'm really enjoying it. I love doing up the house. I mean, I'm not doing the work. The builders are doing the work and they're brilliant, which helps. They're really good.

12:14Whatever they like, that's the right thing to say. They're brilliant. They're brilliant. But I love choosing the paint colours and the tiles and yeah. And how is your cat coping with living in the Airbnb? Well, I let her out for the first time. You let her out of the Airbnb? Yes. And is it in a different part of town from where you live? It's half a mile away. So I was worried that she'd go back. That was one of my concerns, because it's close enough that she could go back. But no, yesterday she came in and out four times perfectly. And today she went out straight away when I opened the window.

12:50She has to go out through a window onto a flat roof and then climb down a fence into the garden. So, I mean, she's a very, very good little cat. Well, you're a risk taker, Harriet Jane. Yeah, I put a collar on her. It's got a name around her neck and a bell and stuff. Well, there's been some risk taking in my diaries, hasn't there? Oh, child. I know, I know, it's so shame. I have to say, actually, I was listening to the last episode we recorded, and I was thinking I didn't really ask you quite enough about what was going on with Leslie. Well, I also want to explain to people that this is not every page of the diaries.

13:22There are millions of words in the diaries. What we have done is taken pages, days from the diary, sufficient to give you an idea of the story. Yeah, selected episodes. For example, with the girl who was married to a fellow student, Leslie, it all sort of came to a head very abruptly. Do you remember with her husband accosting me at a party in the garden of Robert Maxwell's house? And interestingly, my recollection of it is not what I write in the diary. In the diary, I simply say he accosted me and, you know, terrified me and told me to keep my hands off his wife quite right too. My recollection is we actually, not we had a fight, but he actually knocked me over.

14:05That's my recollection. And I wondered to myself why I didn't write that in the diary. Maybe because I was ashamed. Maybe because it didn't happen. And in thinking of the story afterwards, I made it happen. I made him knock me over. I don't know. The great thing about a diary is if you're keeping a diary, you've got to be true to yourself at the time. So anybody who's thinking of writing a diary, just write it all down. it won't necessarily be seen by anybody you can always at a later date um you know uh tip x if there's such a thing the bits you don't want seen or destroy it but there's no point in keeping it out if you're not true to yourself so um is anything more to be said or do you want to read on so just one more question about um the thing with leslie because you don't what you don't say in the diary, you don't really talk about how you're feeling about it.

14:57Do you think you felt guilty? Yes. I think I must have known it was wrong. I must have known it was wrong. Of course I knew it was wrong. But I, there's no excuse, but I was 20. And I think, was there, I think this was a moment when I, when he confronted me, it was a moment when I actually had to come to grips with what must have been a sense of entitlement. I somehow thought, this girl is lovely. I like her. I fancy her. She's being nice chatting to me. And of course, it did get out of hand because we would meet on a daily basis when she was going to work. And, you know, I would, we'd walk to the bus stop, we'd hold hands.

15:37Of course, I knew it was wrong. I knew it was wrong. The moment he confronted me, I absolutely withdrew, shamefaced. So I hope there's not going to be much more of that sort of nonsense in these diaries which may disappoint some listeners because i don't know whether i hope there is or there isn't i've now met a new girl um and called michelle and curiously this last weekend i met michelle from the diaries it says june the 4th 1968 i always thought it was june the 6th but anyway it turns out from the diaries is june the 4th and there was only one other person in the room when i met her and i went to his birthday party this weekend.

16:15So we're still friends. Michael Coveney became a very distinguished drama critic, biographer of Dame Maggie Smith, among other people. Anyway, still a great writer. And he and I were in the room together when Michelle came in and I pursued Michelle. And where are we now? We are at the start of the summer holidays. It's the 4th of July. Yeah. And I seem to be, well, let's see where I am. Thursday, the 4th of July, 1968. General de Gaulle has won a landslide victory in the French general election. Lone yachtsman Alec Rose has landed in Portsmouth after taking a year to circumnavigate the globe. I've had lunch with Pa at Bucks Club as the guest of Harry Middleton, number two at BBC Outside Broadcasts, who's going to introduce me to the heads of features and current affairs.

17:06Coming out of Bucks, we stumbled into Frank Muir, now head of entertainment at London Weekend TV. bucks is said to be the model for the drones club and frank muir certainly has the manner of a character created by pg woodhouse he was very affable we settled to meet for lunch and he agreed to read the prologue for the pantomime this is the pantomime i was going to be producing at oxford it's all going well just a pity i have to wait until 1970 for anything to happen meaning i had to wait till i left university wednesday the 10th of july 1968 last night the royal tournament at Earl's Court with Ma and Ben and Jen.

17:45Rather fun and quite like old times. Tomorrow, Pa's 58th birthday, and we are going to Hadrian VII at the Mermaid Theatre, much acclaimed. Tonight, however, the play was not so memorable. I met Michelle at Charing Cross at 6.10pm. Wonderful to be with her again. She seemed happy too. On to the Fortune Theatre, where Bob Kidd was waiting and gave us our tickets for the first night of summer. This is the play that he was directing that Jane Asher was in. Oh, wow. We had a four-pound box all to ourselves. Oh. Remember, I'd met him the previous term when he was directing Jane Asher at the Oxford Playhouse.

18:27Paul McCartney was there and smaller than I'd expected. He doesn't seem to know that it's all over with Jane. I said nothing, of course. We had champagne with Jane afterwards with her brother and parents, etc. The performances are much improved, but it will still flop, I fear. Wait, so how... I can't remember. How is all this happening? How do you know that Jane Asher and Paul McCartney are going to split up when Paul McCartney doesn't know? What is so funny is that here we are all these years later and you excitedly phoned me and said, oh gosh, guess what? I've got John Lennon's sister has agreed to be with us on the podcast.

19:07and I'm saying yes and I'm thinking to myself well actually I knew the Beatles too and we get so excited and we're going to have Roger McGough I think who knew the Beatles back in the day. How this happened was entirely by chance. In the summer term Jane Asher was appearing at this play Summer was having its tryout in Oxford directed by this young man Robert Kidd and because Michelle and I began going out with Robert and Jane I quickly realised that Robert and Jane were now an item. but in the papers it was all about Jane Asher, Paul McCartney's girlfriend. So I was hearing from Jane what was going on and I could see with my own eyes what was going on between Jane and Bob.

19:49Paul clearly turned up on the first night because he'd been invited not knowing that Jane was having a little dalliance with the director. I hope Paul McCartney's not listening to this. Yeah, because we do want him on the podcast one day, don't we? If you're listening, Sir Paul McCartney, I'm very, very sorry that Giles is telling you. I'm breaking the news. I think he's worked it out by now. She went and married somebody else very happily and successfully. And so did he. So I don't think, I mean, it's a long time ago. It's fine. It's all water under the bridge. And he did send me a very nice note, Paul McCartney, the other day.

20:24Which I must bring in to show you. Yeah. We admire him. We love him. This was a long time ago. But anyway, that's what a daddy is about. I'd forgotten all of this. Amazing. And there we are. And there I'm saying the play will be a flop. I wonder if I'm right or wrong about that. Sunday the 14th of July, 1968. Michelle is so beautiful. And I am now trendy, wearing the new jacket we bought for me yesterday at Harrods. I rather like it. And I've taken my trousers and suits to the tailor's for tapering. She's changing me, the funny girl. Last night we went to Elvira Madigan at the Academy Cinema. Beautiful.

21:02Perhaps not so beautiful as we'd been led to believe. Today we walked around the West End and down Whitehall. We supped at the Royal Festival Hall and then walked along the embankment to Charing Cross. I saw her off on the 10pm train to Ashford. She parted with a striking remark. Wouldn't I like anyone as much as her? She said, it's just the idea of being in love that I find exciting. Who it is hardly matters. very perceptive Michelle Brown I would say well interesting I just recorded it there but maybe she was right I don't know because I'd gone through a sort of season of falling in love with almost anybody I met hadn't I anyway Tuesday the 30th of July 1968 11 a.m went to interview Ian McLeod at the House of Commons his office is a shoebox tucked away somewhere in the roof of the building.

22:02He talked about the need for consensus, staying in the middle ground and taking the majority of people with you and the frustrations of power. Governments can only do so much and what they try to do takes so long to take effect. He was impressive, clear-headed, but much shorter and more physically disabled than I'd expected. That was, I later found out, it was a combination of a war wound to his thigh and a spinal condition. It was ankylosing spondylitis and it left him in pain and a limp for most of his adult life and he he was a very famous politician in his day a kind of moderate conservative and he became the chancellor of the exchequer and i think was the chancellor of the exchequer with the shortest term i think he died after only three weeks at 11 downing street oh met david creamer for lunch he's on the ouds committee and being very helpful and picked up the set designs for cinderella from kathy henderson she's sweet and mild so are her sets alas oh cultural happenings apple the beatles shop with the psychedelic murals is closing because it's 50 yards from home next door to the baker street classic i visited it on a number of occasions but there was never anything there i wanted to buy i suppose there was never anything anybody else wanted to buy hence its closure after just six months and tonight i sat down to watch the opening of thames tv but the screen was blank industrial dispute no programs oh dear wednesday the 31st of july 1968 meet michelle at charing cross and go with her to king's arms by the royal court for lunch with jane and bob both of them philosophical about summer closing he was firing on all cylinders while she was a bit flat and limp though she phoned later to say she's found a flat in Paddington Street.

23:56So soon we'll be neighbours because my parents lived around the corner. Oh, Sue and Jane Asher are big friends. With M, that's Michelle, with M to the Matisse exhibition on the South Bank and then to meet up with Pat Curran from Queens who is directing Twelfth Night. He was another student. I told him I'd like a part in the play. He said, would I have time? Aren't I directing a play for Oud's next term and being Secretary of the Union and writing columns for ISIS, etc. I pressed him. If Michel is playing Viola, I need to be in his production. He said he'd really finish the casting. I told him I was happy to be an attendant lord.

24:38He said, would I consider playing the sea captain? It's a small part, but the sea captain has a scene with Viola. So I said, yes. Charles, did you do a pirate voice for it? That's what I would have done. Ooh, argh. Yeah. Arrgh. No, I tried to play it quite straight. Oh. What country, friends, is this? This is Illyria, lady. This is Illyria. It's a famous line, actually. It is. It's a great line. Quite a good scene. We'll come on to what actually happened in due course. Ooh.

25:18Saturday the 3rd of August 1968, a good day. At noon, Ginny, that's my sister Ginny, married Alan Alkins. She looked lovely and he grows on one. The service was long but quite pleasant. The reception was long but I think a success. As long as the parents enjoyed it, all's well. Afterwards, Bard organised a dinner party for 12 at the Savoy. The food was good, the dancing fun and Harry Worth provided a splendid cabaret. I nearly missed the show tonight. I got to the underground and saw this sign. Dogs must be carried on the escalators. Took me 40 minutes to find one. I love it. I stole that joke from Harry Worth.

26:00And about 30 years later, I was at a variety club lunch. And I told that joke during the course of it. And he came up and congratulated me on the way I'd done it. Oh, that's a great joke. It is a good joke. As Barry Cryer used to say, nobody owns the jokes. You just rent them for a while. Oh, that's nice. the day was a success a proper wedding at St. Marylebone where Elizabeth Barrett married Robert Browning a proper reception at the home in Regent's Park all done comme il faut it went so well that one could almost forget the expense par is eaten up with money worries he earns around 5 000 pounds a year which sounds good but with the rent for the flat and Ben's school fees and my Oxford fees and holidays and all the rest, it isn't quite enough.

26:48I'm hoping I can make a contribution to the domestic budget soon. When I start the Luke Jarvis column on honey, I'm going to get 45 guineas a month. And Gillian, Gillian Cook, the editor, wants me to write a feature every other month as well. The column won't be easy. Luke Jarvis is a swinging 60s young man about town. And I'm not entirely sure that's me. Well, it is with your new jacket, John. Well, if that's it. And friends with Jane Asher and all sorts. Yeah, and Michelle was trying to get me dressed up and looking the part. Yeah. It's very touching, by the way, that you want to help your father so much.

27:26I mean... It's... I mean, people interested in my story can read a childhood memoir I published called Odd Boy Out, which really is a kind of book about my father, who the money worries dogged him all his life. And I was so aware of that and so anxious for him. And he just spent all this money on doing a really beautiful wedding. The wedding was beautiful, but I hate to think what it would have cost. I was very aware of that. And happily, I was beginning to earn money. So soon I was paying my own fees at Oxford and I was able actually quite quickly to contribute to their expenses at home. I think I paid the phone bills and things like that.

28:09Gosh, Giles, that's amazing. Which was a relief to him. So, I mean, is this what gives you your drive, do you think? Do you think it comes from this anxiety and the desire to help your father? Well, he had on the wall at home these two famous prints, which I think my niece Polly has now. A picture of a man in his sort of counting house looking at his figures. and one picture is here the man is beaming and it says balance on the right side happiness and the next picture he's looking absolutely broken and miserable and he's in the same seat sitting looking at his figures and it says balance on the wrong side misery so my father was constantly aware of that and I have framed you will have seen it in our kitchen on the kitchen wall the quotation of the book of psalms a little sleep a little slumber a little folding of the hands to rest and poverty it will come upon you like a vagabond and want like an armed man so i suppose i've been driven um michelle now my wife so spoiler alert michelle says to me repeatedly you know your parents have been dead some years now you don't need to go on striving um but but i do and when when we get to if ever we do get to uh in the diaries where my father dies his, I mean, in part, he died because he got to the end of his rope and he couldn't hold on.

29:40He died because there was no more money. Really? Also because he smoked and he had cancer. But I mean, he was also, it was the blight of his life, which is why when I was an MP, and indeed I still am, so sympathetic to people with money worries. There really is, apart from health worries, there's nothing worse than money worries. So hang on in there. If you've got money worries, don't go out. Spend money you haven't got. Stay in. Listen to Rosebud. Well, he could have just sent you to state school. But I guess that just didn't cross their mind. That's very interesting. Not only that, he could have sent me to...

30:17I could have gone, for example, there's a private school called St Paul's where our son, who's now barrister, went to school because Michelle didn't want to send the children to boarding school. I could have lived... They could have got a flat near... near in Hammersmith and I could have gone to that school yeah not so expensive as boarding schools he sent all three of my sisters to Cheltenham Ladies College which was an expensive girls boarding school I went away to B-dow's as you know my brother was at another boarding school and my mother wanted to go on foreign holidays they just spent a little bit more than they had and it adds up yeah but enough of these money worries let's let's get back to the summer of 1968.

30:56Saturday the 17th of August 1968. One of the most perfect days I can remember. Michelle is so beautiful. Met her as usual at Charing Cross came back to 5H, that's the flat, babysat Polly, that's Hester's baby daughter, went to see the real inspector hound of the Criterion. Delightful, very funny. Love and laughter who could ask for anything more. we supped at the greek restaurant in maryland high street tarabasalata lamb kebab salad othello wine greek coffee turkish delight with nuts in we fell into conversation with a sad thin ex-military man at the next table he told us about his unhappy love life and i was reading lawrence durrell's novel tunk i shall buy it for michelle saw m off from charing cross very content None of that tension and anxiety that so often comes with railway platform goodbyes.

31:57That's rather good. Saw M off from Charing Cross. Very content. None of that tension and anxiety that so often comes with railway platform goodbyes. I'm going to bed determined to get the Honey article on sex and the single boy cracked by this time tomorrow. It can and will be done. What was I doing? I mean, Honey was a magazine for young women, you know, late teenagers. Sex and the single boy. And I've been commissioned to write a piece on sex and the single boy. I think you've got quite a lot to write. Oh, gosh almighty. Oh, dear, yes. By the way, I think Railway Platform Goodbyes is a great title for either a poem or a film or a play or something.

32:38I agree. Love it. Can you picture, well, obviously you're remembering some in your life. Oh, I mean, yeah, it's a very, very atmospheric idea. Well, that's what we want, in a way. One of the reasons we're reading these diaries is to prompt in our listeners, if you have a memory of a particularly poignant, interesting, funny, sad railway platform goodbye, do share it with us. What is the email address they write to? Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Good. Sunday the 24th of August 1968, the papers are full of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. Isn't this interesting? 1968, nothing seems to change.

33:14The papers are full of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. Troops and tanks from the USSR and four other Eastern Bloc countries have moved into the country to stop the reformers and crush the Prague Spring. Alexander Dubček, the Czech Prime Minister, has been arrested and dozens have been killed. I am due to fly to Moscow next week. Gosh, should I still go? Parr suggested I telephone Sir William Hayter, the warden of New College, and he was former British ambassador to Moscow and take his advice. Yeah. I did. He said he was sure I would be safe in Moscow. He said, I should go. I will. In Prague, it's hell.

33:56Horrific pictures of ordinary men and women in the street attempting to defy the tanks. In London, it's heaven. I met Michelle at Shering Cross as ever and we went to Carnaby Street. It was very hilarious. The heart of swinging London is full of Americans. We saw John Schlesinger's film Darling at the Baker Street Classic. Strong, stark, sexy. Julie Christie is beautiful. Tomorrow we are going to The Graduate. Met up with Clive Siddle for tea at the ABC Baker Street. Nice man. He suggests that I should do a TV show at lunchtime or even at breakfast time on a Sunday. It's never been done in this country.

34:38Would anybody watch? On to Tooting to Hester's party. Rather a quaint and tame affair. Unmarried mothers, a lesbian or two, and other drab folk. Of course, had the evening been filmed by John Schlesinger, it would probably have won several awards. Parr collected us and brought us home. M is staying in the little room off the kitchen. I have bought her tunk and the poems of John Dunn as bedside reading. She is a perfect creature, blemish free. Thursday the 29th of August 1968 with Pa to lunch at New Scotland Yard with Pa's friend Bob Mark, Deputy Commissioner. He's affable and straightforward, though I was surprised, shocked, by how much wine was drunk.

35:28The tour of the Black Museum was fun, some wonderful stuff on the brides-in-the-bath murders and Dr Crippen. Hubert Humphrey is to be the Democrats' presidential candidate. it's all over for senators mccarthy and mcgovern friday the 6th of september 1968 full moon with michelle to london from ashford i've been staying with her parents i love her she is flawless to dentist all fine as usual to bbc in portland place to meet past friend from Oxford, Christopher Serple, BBC diplomatic correspondent. Quiet, cool, helpful. He gave me several useful Moscow addresses. About to lunch at 5H with M, when Jen and her new fiancé, Peter Wolfenden, arrived.

36:19Conversation constrained as a consequence, so we went off for a Chinese. Then on to Selfridges, where we bought M a bag. Then back to 5H, then on by taxi to the University of London Collegiate Theatre to see the National Youth Theatre, Richard II, with Simon Cadell as York. On with Simon to the Baker Street Classic, Late Show. Lots of laughs with Simon. We laughed at the rest of the audience as much as anything else. We like laughing at the world. And I like loving Michelle. She is perfection. Oh, you've really got into Michelle very quickly. It's interesting. Well, where are we? End of July. Well, by my standards, it's quite a long relationship.

37:01It's almost eight weeks. But it is interesting in retrospect. I think the tone is slightly different, isn't it, with her? Anyway. Yeah. So what do you think you were thinking at this point? Do you think you were thinking, this is the love of my life? Or were you thinking in those terms? I think probably I always thought this is the love of my life. I think that was the approach or that was the style I offered. And I think, well, we'll see what, I mustn't give in retrospect. And we'll see what I seem to have thought then. But I think she played harder to get than some. Yes, but that might have been appealing.

37:40Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. Certainly kept me up to the mark. And did your friends like her, like Simon? Yes. That was easy. Yes, yes. But I think good friends are accepting of people's girlfriends, aren't they? It's always tough if they're not. I think you want your friends to like your people, don't you? Well, they could not like Michelle. Exactly. Monday the 9th of September 1968. Rise at 8am to Cromwell Road Air Terminal. Brief haircut to London Airport. Breakfast. Make phone calls. Robert Kidd, Fred Burnley, Michelle. Get carried away talking to Michelle. so miss BA flight to Moscow. Oh, that's ridiculous.

38:20I miss, I'm going to Moscow and I miss the aeroplane. With some difficulty, arrange new route. Oh, Giles. My goodness, that is commitment. That is love, isn't it? Got carried away. That's out of character for you. But these, you see, you're standing in a phone box. There's no, you know. Oh, in a phone box, of course. And you're putting money into the machine. Outside the airport. You're not seeing the departure board. Oh, deary me. Oh, my goodness. Anyway, with some difficulty, arrange a new route. Lunch and then leave on the 1405 on Austrian Airlines for Vienna. Change at Vienna. There was brilliant sunshine as the door of the plane opened.

38:55As I stepped onto the tarmac, the rain fell. Not just dribs and drabs, a torrent. I was drenched, soaked to the skin. Still damp, flew on Aeroflot from Vienna to Moscow. Moscow airport, deserted and cheerless. No advertisements, of course. Just plain grey walls and a single palm tree. The whole place was dead. You see, with communism, no capitalism, no ads. So think how bleak it must have been. Ads actually cheer the place up a lot, don't they? Yeah. I went to the desk marked hotels to sort out accommodation and was told to wait. An hour later, I made a second inquiry at the same desk, but from someone different.

39:41Did they tell you to wait? Yes. Then wait. After more than two hours, I was told there would be room for me at the Hotel Bucharest. Took a taxi. The driver, who spoke some English, drove along a broad and empty motorway at 120 kph, even though the sign said 40. Gosh. The roadside was littered with broken down and abandoned vehicles. The driver talked happily about the cold weather and Bobby Charlton. He kept repeating the words, Bobby Charlton. but when I asked him in a Russian accent Bobby Charlton but when I asked him about the invasion of Czechoslovakia he went silent for several minutes until we got near the hotel when he started to say Bobby Charlton once more the hotel has the feel of an ornate Victorian public convenience my room is bare but quite adequate there is no soap and no plug to the basin but I was warned to expect that tuesday the 10th of september 1968 change money collect breakfast vouchers have breakfast hard-boiled egg and tea walk through moscow at gum the department store everyone is eating ice cream even though the temperature here is below 40 degrees fahrenheit go past the tomb of the unknown soldier at 12 noon there were 30 fresh wreaths on display by nightfall when i passed it once more more than 70 went into the kremlin past the lenin library down kilinin street to number 14 quickly attended to mr rozanov agrees to introduce me to leading criminologists on the way back i was approached by two 16 year old boys both called a sasha they spoke quite good english they said they wanted to buy my shoes I talked to them for two hours Bought them coffee Walked through the city with them And arranged a further meeting I asked them how they knew so much About life in the West They said via the BBC And foreign papers One had a 1964 copy of Newsweek The other a 1961 copy of Time They wanted to talk about pop music Sasha with a moustache Plays drums Sasha with the 18 year old girlfriend and marina plays guitar they admire the beatles rolling stones animals they knew all the beatles names and wanted to talk about john lennon and yoko ono i'm in my room i've just received a mystery phone call the telephone rang i answered silence this is fascinating giles i didn't know this is coming up.

42:27Just quickly, why are you there? I am there because I'd been to, I spent my gap here in America. The two superpowers were America and Russia. This was the Cold War. I thought I must go to Russia. I also thought I want to visit some prisons in Russia. And so, you know, I wrote to them saying, can I come and see prisons? And I think I got a reply. Well, obviously, this Kilenin Street address, I was going to be shown something. It sounds like you might end up in a Russian prison soon if you carry on with telling state secrets to Sasha and Sasha. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Wednesday, the 11th of September, 1968.

43:09I toured the Kremlin with an enchanting guide. The other tourists were Americans who bent over backwards not to make trouble. Oh, it's sensible not to allow us to take pictures here. Who would? If you take pictures, you don't look properly. There was plenty to look at. The cathedrals are of great beauty. The armory chamber is magnificent. We were shown the building where Podgorny and Kosygin, they were two of the Soviet leaders, work. But nobody asked our guide any difficult questions. We stuck strictly to history. Peter the Great was seven foot tall and made his own gumboots. He knew 17 trades and was the most modest Tsar.

43:48We saw the joint throne of Ivan and Peter, with the hole in the back where their sister sat prompting them with answers. Ambassadors were amazed at the wisdom of their answers. At 4pm, as arranged, I met the two Sashas on the bridge. Marina was there too, an attractive 18, heavily made up, wearing a short skirt and smart clothes. They told me they wanted me to buy a handbag for her at the foreign currency shop in the Hotel Rossia. They gave me 10 francs, a dollar bill, and assorted English and US coins. But when we got to the hotel, they said we were being followed and should walk on. They then admitted that in the past, both of them had been caught and imprisoned.

44:31They showed me the labels in their clothes. Their jackets were made in North Korea, but their shoes came from Sweden and Switzerland. Marina wants to leave Russia for the US, not another socialist country. The only way to do it is by marrying an American. She's been going out with an Italian for two months. She thinks he is 25 and unmarried, but she isn't sure because she speaks no Italian and he speaks no Russian. He comes from Milano and works at the embassy. They meet four times a week for an hour. The Sashas are both members of the Youth Party. Marina isn't. She doesn't like politics. The Czech invasion is bad, but America is the same.

45:13Vietnam is bad. Jack London is her favourite writer and Clark Gable, Robert Taylor and Vivian Lee her favourite film stars Two more mystery phone calls tonight Thursday the 12th of September 1968 I queued to visit the Lenin Mausoleum It's really more of a shrine than a mausoleum and quite tastefully done Lenin himself looks like a faded waxwork Perhaps he is Perhaps this is just for show there's a fast track for tourists and important visitors i filed past the glass-covered open casket with members of the soviet olympic team the people in the people's queue seemed real not rent a queue the american behind me opined if jesus christ were embalmed in jerusalem the crowds would be like this the shops here are extraordinary they have cash registers but they don't use them.

46:07They do their calculations with an abacus and simply use the till as a cash box. After queuing for several hours and being sent from one building to another to a third, I succeeded in buying tickets for the Bolshoi Swan Lake at the Palace of Congresses. The phone in my room has been cut off and there is a large lady dressed all in black sitting on an upright chair in the corridor immediately outside my bedroom. I said goodnight to her, but she did not respond. I'm going to bed now. I've done too much walking. My bones ache and I'm very tired. I shall write up my notes on my meeting with a criminologist tomorrow, though I'm not sure if there's much point.

46:51The Soviet prisons are apparently wonderfully uncrowded. Crime is falling rapidly and 90 % of all crimes are solved. In our country, crime will be completely abolished and all reasons for crime wiped out. The moment will come. Everyday experience proves it. Giles, this is amazing. Interesting. Were you worried? What I think is interesting for me now, and indeed for people reading this, is what the Soviet Union was actually like, to actually visit the Soviet Union. Because I've since been to Russia. I actually have a family member who lives in Moscow. So I know what modern Moscow is like, and it's not like this.

47:33So, no, it is interesting. It is a little time capsule, isn't it? Yeah.

47:44Friday the 13th, September 1968. Lunch with Adam Kerrott Long, slight, young, seemingly shy, chief of the Reuters desk here, at his flat in the Foreign Correspondents' ghetto. The flat is nice. He says that if ever he wants any improvements, all he has to do is say so out loud and prompt action follows. He is permanently bugged. All the foreign correspondents are, and the diplomats, and the visitors. He told me the story of the correspondent who arrived in Moscow and, searching for the bugging devices, unscrewed every nut and bolt in his hotel bedroom, including the twelve sinister bolts set in a circle immediately under his bed.

48:28As he finished his task the whole building shook as on the floor below him the ballroom chandelier crashed to the ground adam said his only real sources of information are the newspapers you can get nothing worth having out of the government and you can't trust anyone you meet he says the kgb are both a nuisance and a nonsense we were joined by bob evans of cbs and a large man from the Toronto Star, who is convinced that the USSR is about to invade Yugoslavia. Adam smiled. If they are, we'll be the last to know. Oh, gosh. But what a privilege to actually spend time with these old hand Moscow journalists.

49:15Amazing. Wonderful. So evil in war, isn't it? Yeah. Amazing. Anyway, we get back to England. Wednesday, the 18th of September, 1968. I'm on the train going to Ashford to see Michelle. The train is delayed and rerouted because of the flooding. The worst flooding to hit South East England since 1953. I'm sorting through the post. It now comes in two classes. First class, five pence, delivered overnight. Second class, four pence, takes a little longer. Sir Rowland Hill. Yes, indeed. Your forebear. Your great, great, great, great, great uncle. We're going to find out more about him in due course. John Betchman has written, oh, the great John Betchman.

50:00Wow. Yeah. John Betchman has written from 43 Cloth Fair EC1. He's been away in the Isle of Wight making a film about Tennyson. He can't write the prologue for the pantomime. I find writing to order in verse a most awful sweat. He suggests I approach Neville Coghill. He knows the playhouse, he knows the undergraduates, and he has the sparkle and fun which years of self-pity have washed off yours sincerely, John Betchman. Rather a touching postcard to receive from the great man. I was wanting somebody distinguished to write this prologue and he was suggesting this man, Neville Coghill, who was an academic in Oxford.

50:44He'd been professor of English at Oxford in the 50s and 60s and he a wonderful translation of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, which became a show. He also, though, this is why I knew he was, he had directed My Father in a production of Samson Agonistes at Oxford in the late 1920s. Amazing. So. Full circle. All comes around the circle. Saturday, the 28th of September, 1968. A bad day with Barnabas and Caroline Bennett. She's now definitely going to play Cinderella, she'll be fine, she's blonde and slim and she can sing, I went back to B-Dales to be the Saturday evening entertainment, talking about my experiences in America and Russia, etc.

51:29I shouldn't have done it. A, because of my rule, never look back, and B, because I got it all wrong and got a very mixed reception as a consequence, some of it friendly some of it quite hostile what i did simply fell between two stools it was neither funny enough to be highly entertaining nor serious enough to be of substance there's a lesson here people need to know what you are giving them i feel quite dejected i saw sally briefly she's not very attractive i'm sorry to read that because not that we'll be reading it i have looked up the secret diary and clearly when I was with her I thought she was incredibly attractive and my recollection is she was very beautiful so this is my mood at the time not a reflection on her loveliness but also making yourself feel better when someone's your ex isn't it yes you don't want to pine you want to feel like moved on I don't need you anymore so you tell yourself it And speaking of mixed receptions, I should report that yesterday was the day when theatre censorship in England came to an end.

52:42The Lord Chamberlain has been licensing plays since 1737. No more. And to mark the new freedom, the cast of the musical Hair danced naked on the stage of the Shaftesbury Theatre last night. Mr Tynan will have been delighted. The cast of Cinderella will be keeping their clothes on. Oh, that's a shame, Giles. I think you should have done a naked, at least a naked scene, Cinderella. Yes, I think so. Tuesday, the 1st of October, 1968. Thanks to Clive Siddle's mother, Joanne, I went to Whitechapel in the East End today to Toynbee Hall and met Jack Profumo. Wow. Toynbee Hall was established in the 1880s as a settlement house.

53:27It's a place that helps all sorts, drunks, down-and-outs, the homeless ex-offenders. and government ministers brought low by scandal. This is where Mr Profumo does his good works. And I have to say, he bowled me over. He is utterly charming. Perhaps the most charming man I have met. And that includes James Robertson Justice and the Aga Khan. He has boundless energy and infectious enthusiasm. He really believes in the work they are doing at Toynbee Hall. He's there every day with his sleeves rolled up, getting on with it. What was especially impressive was the way he was himself. He didn't try to be one of the lads.

54:06He was natural, easy, unselfconscious, and he said, happier than I've ever been. Wow, Giles. Well... Is there anyone you haven't met? But what a privilege, I see now, what a privilege youth I had. Yes. People even today have heard of the Profumo scandal. people are still making tv films even movies about it but what is interesting is that this happened because at oxford i met another student whose mother worked at doyneby hall and i showed an interest and people may think yeah well it's all right for you how privileged you were and indeed i was privileged but michelle was at our local grammar school and she also got into oxford at the same time so there were people like me who had come from this privileged middle class background but there also were other people there as well and that was the the great privilege of it we were all thrown into this thing together so you met all sorts um and I certainly did I mean my gosh I like to say if they're in the news they're on rosebud but clearly if they're in the news they're in the diary I mean I think it's a lesson really in if you don't ask you don't get And I think what you had was the curiosity, the confidence, and some of the contacts to ask and say, can I meet Jack Profumo?

55:30And amazingly, people say yes. Do take advantage. If you're young, and I know we've got some young listeners, take advantage of being young. I always thought people wanted to meet me because I was interesting. They didn't. They met me because I was a young person. And people like to do things for young people. And you wrote nice letters, I think. And I wrote nice letters and I wrote proper thank you letters. And so it was marvellous. The only thing that has impressed me in this is that bit where I say I learnt the lesson. Yeah. I'd forgotten. I'm very good at wiping awkward things, embarrassing things, bad things from me.

56:07But I'm interested I wrote that down in the diary because I also noted how I'd got it wrong. and it's worth remembering people can't see what's in your head yeah you are as you present yourself yeah so you've got to decide what you're trying to present yeah so if you're getting up on a stage and I was only 20 giving a talk are you going to be funny if you are be funny and then you're going to be serious then be serious clearly I mixed it up and it was a bit of a shambles it's good to learn that when you're young isn't it is what do you do now do you try to be funny more or serious now what i absolutely try to do is read the room you know i mean there's no point in being a talker you've got to be a listener yes you know so read read the room read the room there's two lessons here read the room and if you don't ask you don't get brilliant good and if you like rosebud please give us a review does that help how does that help it helps because the algorithm them knows that you're getting engagement and that is one of the things that spreads the word yeah then it suggests you more to other people on their page and good well everybody we've got a very exciting season coming up we're soon going to have had two years of rosebud as a special episode we've got one of somebody very special coming back onto rosebud we've got some very exciting guests from a range of worlds coming up in the autumn season.

57:41We're carrying on with the diaries. We're going to get a flavour of your diaries. Lots of interesting, fun things coming along. So, is that it for today? It is. Yeah, that was really good. I'm sure there's other things we need to say, but... Oh, go on our Instagram. That's going great guns at the moment. I'm on Instagram myself, and I'm also on X, but we have our own Instagram account, which is called... The Rosebud Podcast. And we're videoing this for the first time. We're videoing this episode for the first time. So we might put some clips of this. And Michelle and I have godchildren. I can share this with people.

58:20It's a bit of a spoiler. But we've referred to Simon Cadell, the actor who I mentioned in the diaries. And when we were in Broadstairs, we talked about him because it would have been his 75th birthday. He had two sons, the younger of which, Alec, is Michelle's godson. and Alec is going to help build our YouTube channel. Yes. So eventually people can see us, watch it all on YouTube. Yeah. Meanwhile, there are clips, but also there is the original. You can't beat the original. No, exactly. So come to Rosebud, the podcast, with Giles Brandreth and Harriet Jane. Thank you for your company. Do we cue the exit music?

58:56What do we call the final music? Is it cue the farewell music? It's the same music as the start. It's the same music as the start. Maybe we should get some new farewell music. Play it backwards. Oh, nice idea. Maybe. maybe yeah anyway who knows thank you for your company

59:54That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth.