Hayley and Juliet Mills

0:00Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. This is Rosebud, a conversation about people's memories. Welcome to the party. Cue the music.

0:59Hello, this is Giles Brandreth, again. This is Rosebud, again. This is a special Rosebud, again. but I think this is a very special Rosebud because we have two guests and we have them for a reason. They're two actresses that I have known and admired for almost all my life, as you will discover. I first saw them in performance in the 1950s when I was a little boy. One of them is marking this weekend, if you're listening to this live, we're on a Friday and tomorrow, Saturday the 18th of April, will be the 80th birthday of Hayley Mills. Hayley Mills, well, she was a child star. She won an Oscar as a child star.

1:48She made six, or was it eight, big movies for Walt Disney years and years ago. But she's gone on as a stage actress, a film actress. She's a remarkable human being. She's a friend of mine now. Of course, when I first saw her as a child, as a boy of my generation. I fell for her in films like Tiger Bay, Pollyanna, The Parent Trap. She was just amazing. And now I know her. And her older sister, Juliet Mills, who's now 84, well, I first saw her on stage in Alice Through the Looking Glass at a theatre in London in the 1950s. And I fell for her then. So when I heard that the pair of them were going to be in London, England this week I thought I must catch them I really must because Juliet Mills big stage star in America big soap star in America famous actress in America spends most of her time in America but she has come to London for the birthday celebrations of her sister Hayley and they were together this week so I think Juliet only got off the aeroplane last night but I've invited her to come not to our usual studio but to my home and I've got as my special guest today Juliet Mills and Hayley Mills.

3:06They are the daughters of a very famous British actor Sir John Mills. Their mother was Mary Hayley Bell a very noted and distinguished well actress first and then a writer. So, interesting parents, remarkable children, and I think one of the most special episodes of Rosebud you will have heard. So, welcome to Rosebud with Juliet Mills and Hayley Mills. Cue the music.

3:47Well, I have to tell you both that my producer Harriet Jane has been saying to me for a long time Giles, you need therapy and if I need therapy I think it's probably because of you too What? Yes, I am with as everyone can hear. I am with Juliet Mills and Hayley Mills, who have both been part of my life since I was a little boy. Careful. Yeah. Juliet, I first saw on stage at a theatre in the King's Road in London in a production of Alice Through the Looking Glass. What year would that have been, Juliet? Oh my goodness well I was 14 so it was. It would have been 1955 yeah 1955 and you played Alice Rulinglass.

4:40Yes. The theatre no longer exists. No it was the Palace Theatre in Chelsea which was pulled down I think. Anyway I came as a little boy to see you and I fell in love with you and my life has not been quite the same ever since. Alice has been one of the obsessions of my life because of you. And since then, I have written a play about Alice in Wonderland and Lewis Carroll. I did a television series version of Through the Looking Glass. And I invented a board game, the Alice in Wonderland board game made by Spears Games, which I, you didn't know this, at the time, I dedicated to you. Oh, my goodness.

5:31This is going back 40 years. Gosh, that is wonderful. So, you are a very important figure in my life, all right? My goodness. I'm going to ask you both the same question in a moment because then a few years later, I then began to see Hayley in films. And, of course, I first saw her in Tiger Bay and then in Whistle Down the Wind. And like, I can't claim to be unique in this, like millions of boys and indeed some girls around the world, I fell in love with Hayley. Now why I need therapy is that I think you two conditioned me to the adrenaline rush that goes with seeing people who have got something extra, an extra quality.

6:15and that has affected my whole life because I think I'm a serial enthusiast and fall in love person. And I'm going to, when I get to the therapist, probably go back to you two and see if you two are to blame. You're not going to be sued, but it is the joy of my life that Hayley is now not just a friend but a neighbour and that you, Juliet, are a friend of mine. So I just wanted to say that to set the record straight. But I wanted to ask you both now, first of all, you must be used to this. So when you were 14, 15, appearing on stage, were you conscious of the effect you were having? Because you were an early, you were a child star in a way, weren't you?

7:01Well, sort of. I mean, that was a real one-off. I was at boarding school, Elmer's boarding school, and I was let out to do that Christmas season of Alice Through the Looking Glass. And that was the first professional thing I'd ever done. And then I went back to school and I didn't do anything again until I did five-finger exercise. Because you appeared in films as well. Yeah, but not like Hayley. I did, you know, I did, I mean, a couple of films with my father when I was really young, four and seven. I had one film I did with him. I actually did have a scene and I spoke, and that was The History of Mr.

7:43Polly. but Alice, going back to Alice that was just a sort of one off thing from school and I didn't realise I didn't realise that I was having an effect on anybody I was just doing two shows a day for six weeks with the most fantastic cast Michael Dennison, Dulcey Gray, Benny Barnes and having a ball working very very hard in a way I never had And so it was a unique experience that, but it did really sort of catapult me into the love of theatre. Good. Well, it's a crush that has lasted a lifetime, as has my crush on Hayley. And of course, I'm not unique, Hayley. When did you first realise that you were having this?

8:36We're going to talk about your whole career and the early films and then joining Disney in a moment. but the impact you had on people. When did you realise that? Has it ever been disturbing to you? Has it been a lovely thing? What is your feeling?

8:54This is a very difficult question. I can't really answer it. Because, you know, Juliet and I grew up in a family with our dad, who was a very successful actor, John Mills, Everywhere we went, people saw him and their vases lit up because he was that sort of charismatic character off screen as well as being a wonderful and a very successful actor on screen. So we both grew up in a world where when you went outside, people noticed you. and of course as you get older and older and older they don't notice you anymore of course they do but they do they do notice you when your autobiography came out a couple of years ago Forever Young very titled Forever Young I think it's one of the reasons that people do think about you is that for you you are forever young and they become forever young by remembering you that's the reason the book went into the New York Times bestseller list at once and stayed there.

10:06Oh, child. But it did. This is fact. Really what I'm asking you is, are you telling me you weren't conscious of this? Also, was it a problem? I know it was occasionally a problem because you had people who were almost like stalkers. I mean, I remember your father, who was indeed charismatic, but also there was an innocence about him. I think I'm right in saying one of your admirers came to the front door saying, where is Hayley living now? And he actually told him. Yes. As opposed to saying, Isn't this a guy we're supposed not to... Yes, that's true, yes. But have you had those sorts of challenges, and how have you coped, or has it been lovely?

10:43Yes, I have. You know, it started gradually, this fame thing. You know, I did my first film, Tiger Bay, and then went back to school, and nothing happened for a year, and I forgot about it, everybody forgot about it. Bonnie, how did you get to play Alice? How did that happen? You were at school at the time. Yeah, they came to Elmhurst and there were auditions. They were seeing girls for the part. So it wasn't because, you know, Daddy knew Michael or Dulcy. No, no, it wasn't, no. It came from, through Elmhurst. Yeah. Yeah. But who knows, maybe the fact that it was Mills that took a special look at me.

11:29Yes. You know, maybe that. Yeah, you weren't wearing a funny hat or anything at the audition. And I also looked like Alice. I had long blonde hair and I always wore sort of an Alice band, a snood or whatever they call them now. So, you know, I had that going for me. What did you have to do? Do you remember? Yeah, I had to sing and dance. I can't remember what. And I've never sung since, but I did sing in Alice. Can I say, she can't remember, but I can remember because somewhere down in my memoirs boxes is a record. You made a record a few years later in 1958. There is a recording of Alice in Luton-Glass with you singing and dancing.

12:09Oh, darling. If you could find that, I would just love to see it. We'll try to find it, and at the end of the podcast, we'll try to play a little snatch of it. Yes. So we've established that you are very relaxed people who could hardly remember the films you were in. It was a very long time ago. etc yes well we suppose we were quite well known but then our father was well known so you know we're taking our stride so let's now begin the podcast proper by asking you the very first question we're going to begin with you juliet mills born 21st november 1941 what juliet is your very first memory the first real memory in your head of your life what can you remember the first thing that comes into your head is your first memory?

12:54I think it is

13:00living we mummy and daddy took us out of London because it was during the war and the blitz was going on and they rented an oast house in Kent and so I must I must have been you know one 18 months something but I do remember the buzz bombs I remember running outside being carried by daddy and them saying the buzz bomb the buzz bomb went mustn't stop if he stops that's when it's going to drop as long as you can keep hearing it it's okay it is definitely connected with the war my first memories. The other thing is I remember Daddy going out to shoot rabbits for stew because there was a shortage of meat.

13:55So, yeah, I think those are my very first memories at Osthouse with those two wonderful people who were so much in love. This is your parents. Yes. He is John Mills, later Sir John Mills, famous eventually as a big, big star in the West End, Broadway, and movies. Then a young star, but he'd begun to make films in the 1940s that made him successful, particularly with Noah Coward. And your mother was who? Mary Hayley Bell. And she was then a young writer? Yes. Well, she was an actress when he met her. He had been married before, hadn't he? Yes, he had. He didn't talk about that. No, he didn't talk about it.

14:38And in fact, we never knew about it for years and years and years. We didn't know about it. Well, do you know, I interviewed him a number of times and I loved him very much. I admired him hugely. And I said to him, what about affairs and things? He said, well, Mary and I had a rule right from the beginning. If occasionally, you know, if ever we fell off the perch, not that I'm saying either of us ever did, but if we fell off the perch, we just wouldn't tell anybody. We certainly wouldn't tell each other and we just carry on. These things are best not talked about. So I mentioned to him the first marriage.

15:10Did you say there was a first marriage? No, no, no, no. Well, I... And so on we swept. So we move over his first marriage. He then married Mary. Who he called Mary? He called her lots of things. Yes. But Mary was her name and he called her Mary. Yes. And then you say they were very much in love. Were you conscious of that as a little girl? Yes, conscious of it all of my life. they were such a romantic couple. They were so much in love. If he went away for the day, he'd write a note and a love letter left for her to find. You know, they were a wonderful couple with a great sense of humor, always laughing, very affectionate.

15:58And, yeah, I was very aware. And also that was what I always wanted. That was my dream, to have that kind of relationship. And they were like that right to the end. I remember going to see him in about 2000 or just after that, wherever they were living. And I arrived early and I was in this sitting room and he was in a room beyond, a television room, with your mother. And she by then was very frail. I'm not sure how much she was understanding of life or the world. But he was chattering away to her saying, now Giles is coming now and he's going to interview me. But he talks so much, I won't be saying very much.

16:35And he was being very jolly. But the point is, she wasn't really responding, but he was chattering away as happening. He said, I'm going now, but I'll leave the door slightly ajar, so if you need me, I'm here all the time. Yes. Does that sound typical of him? Oh, it's so typical of him and so sweet. And, you know, half the time she couldn't hear him because she was deaf. She hated hearing aids. She refused to put them in and turn them on, et cetera. So apart from her getting a little bit away with the fairies as well, he just really but he always had his conversations with her didn't they were together right to the end but it was a tragedy for him actually that she did withdraw so much because they in the old days they never stopped talking that's right always talking we'd look at people in restaurants you know older couples who just sit sort of eating and there's mummy and daddy talking away and laughing and you know always yeah it's enviable isn't it yes now we turn to you hayley mills born on april the 18th 1946 we're coming to your birthday celebration in a moment what is your very first memory hayley um well i have all sorts of funny memories and some of them i think i made up um this memory i think i would maybe one and i'm in my cot in my room and I've had a bad dream.

18:04And the room is dark and I'm crying, screaming or whatever it is. And there's a picture on the wall and it was an old sketch from an old maybe punch. And I think it was the Duke of Wellington kneeling and written above it was Pity above a burglar. Pity the poor blind man. and he was holding out his three-cornered hat and it frightened me You couldn't read that of course at the time. No I couldn't when I was very advanced I was going to say I was sort of genius This is the Duke of Wellington not Napoleon, this is the Duke of Wellington on his knees holding out his cap Pity the poor blind man and it was hanging over my cock because I'm extraordinarily lazy.

19:03It's actually a vivid first memory. And I know I remember it so well because they kept it all their lives. And when they died, strangely, they left it to my partner, Padoz. So we've got it hanging in the kitchen now. So that I do remember. It's rather a weird and slightly sick memory. Sorry about that. No, it's good. Both of them are quite evocative. You mentioned, of course, you have these distinguished parents. You also have distinguished godparents, because you come from a show business family. So putting it in context, it isn't that unusual. But just remind us, Juliet, who are your godparents?

19:46Noel Coward and Vivian Lee. Noel Coward and Vivian Lee. I know. I mean, it's ridiculous. It is. It is ridiculous. It's ridiculous, and it sounds like name-dropping. and yet nowadays when you say some of these names mention some of these luminous characters the younger generation don't know who you're talking about well probably because of gone with the wind vivian lee then people say the most beautiful woman in the world is remembered and of course noel card is the great playwright of the 20th century absolutely do you did you have any do you have any recollections of either of them oh very much i saw a lot of both of them all all all of my life particularly Vivian.

20:27Explain about that. Because they were very very great friends of mummy and daddy obviously that's why they were godparents and Vivian didn't have a daughter with Larry and so I really was her surrogate daughter and I spent a lot of time with her through my life actually. As a child she would pick me up and take me to lunch and and take me to Norman Hartnell's for the day, the afternoon. And she would sit there, you know, the dress designer, very famous Queen's dress designer for a while, I believe. And, you know, the mannequins would come in with different, you know, fur coats at the evening. And she would choose her clothes.

21:11And I had that sort of relationship with her. She taught me so much about style and elegance and class. what did she teach you given that she and larry laurence olivier were then the most famous couple in the world i would say certainly in show business what did she teach you at a human level because she had quite a troubled life herself what did you learn from knowing her so well well in later years it was troubled and i knew about that when i was older but in the early years They were just like normal people with the most wonderful sense of humor which mummy and daddy had. They were always laughing and joking, wonderful sense of humor, always appreciating their good luck at what they were able to do and make a living at, which was their passion.

22:10their great love affair the four of them and larry and viv were very very much in love for most of the time that i knew them it was only in the last years that it began to to go wrong and i spent a lot of time with her during that time too because we were both doing a play in new york I was doing Five Finger Exercise by Peter Schaffer, and I was only 17 by then, but by now I related to her as an adult more, you know, and she was doing Duel of Angels. And so we hung out together. She was going through the divorce with Larry and very, very unhappy, and we became close, very close. I used to take her to get, what is it?

23:02They used to give you, when you were manic depressed, shock treatment. Oh, yes, they were in favour of them in those days, that electric shock treatment. Yeah, and they didn't give them lithium or whatever they do now for, you know... Bipolar, yes. Bipolar is what it's called. They called it manic depression. That's what she had, you know, which she had. And it wasn't recognised at the time. So I really did know her very well. And I'll just tell you one story about Gone With The Wind. And she called me up one day and she said, you know, I've never seen, I haven't seen Gone with the Wind since I've made it, Nikki.

23:40She said, but they're showing it. They're having a screening. It's a something anniversary. How many years? I don't remember. And they've asked me to go, would you like to come with me? So I actually sat at the Ziegfeld Theater in New York City next to Scarlett O 'Hara. How amazing. I mean, that was something. You can't beat that, can you? You can't beat that. And what about Noel Card? And Noel Card too, because he was always around. He adored Daddy and Mummy. He was like a mentor in a way to your father, wasn't he? He was. Very instrumental in Daddy's life. He started him off in the theatre, really, in a big way.

24:18And what a kind and nice person he was, despite the sharp wit. Yes, lovely and one of the funniest people I've ever met, of course. every other line. And it wasn't that he told jokes that much. It was just his perception of things that were so funny. His observance of life and people, just hysterical. And wonderful pianist and songwriter and full of joie de vivre and had wonderful friends. So I spent some time with him. Well, we all did, because he'd come to the house and play the piano.

25:05Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades, or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu shantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. I sold my car in Carvana last night. Well, that's cool. No, you don't understand. It went perfectly. Real offer, down to the penny.

25:42They're picking it up tomorrow. Nothing went wrong. So, what's the problem? That is the problem. Nothing in my life goes to smoothie. I'm waiting for the catch. Maybe there's no catch. That's exactly what a catch would want me to think. Wow, you need to relax. I need to knock on wood. Do we have wood? Is this table wood? I think it's laminate. Okay, yeah, that's good. That's close enough. Car selling without a catch. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.

26:08What's your first, you, Hayley, what's your first memory of your sister and why'd you call her bunny? Do you call her bunny? Oh, that, I didn't come up with that. It goes way back before she was even born because mom had a miscarriage and thought she'd lost the baby. and the doctor said, well, there's still one there. But before that... I was a twin. I was a twin. You are a twin, in a sense. I am a twin, yes. And so you were the remaining bun in the oven, hence the bun. No, no, when they knew you were a twin, you were called the bunch. Well, when she was pregnant, before they knew anything, when she was getting, you know, a tummy, it was referred to as the bunch.

26:52So when I came out on my own, I was bunch. which then became Bunny. In fact, some people still call me Bunch. Yes. But not many. They're all gone. We'll start a new tradition. Oh, look, it's Bunch. Yes. Sweet, isn't it? So what's your first recollection of Bunch? I think I... I'm going to burst into tears. I think I have a recollection of her always running, running madly. And she was very manic. when she was a little girl. She was always waving and smiling and jumping up and down. And I was rather a pudding. I just sat there and stared at a bit grumpy. And I was always trying to keep up with her.

27:42And those few years between us made a big difference to our abilities. And she could do everything so well. And I always thought she was wonderful. I always admired her tremendously. I was cramping her style for quite a few years. We've got over that now. And, you know, she wanted to be a ballerina and eventually she went to Elmhurst Ballet School because she wanted to be a ballerina. And she was very graceful and leapt about and did lovely things on the lawn. And I was trying to follow her in the background and would barely fall on my arse because I wasn't anywhere near able. Because you were a toddler.

28:21because I was a toddler. Yeah, so I've always admired you, and she's always been an inspiration, actually. And for a long time, the only jokes I had that were any good were hers. And I told lots of funny jokes. You know that one about tastes like plastic, feels like rub, that one. Terribly funny joke. I'll tell you that later. What such a joke is it? When you say she has been an inspiration. Yes. What do you mean by that? I think because she, you know, right from the very beginning, I always thought everything she did, she did really well. That's just the older sister. It is, it is, but you were never, well, you were nasty to me occasionally.

29:07In what way? Well, like, you know. Truth. Truth. We know about this. It's nothing. It's children playing. You know, we would fight occasionally. And then there was, of course, Jonathan came along. So there were three of us bickering. That's your younger brother. And he's three years younger than me. And he was very spoiled by mummy. He was the boy mummy wanted a lot. And, of course, then he turned up and he was gorgeous, beautiful little boy with his huge green eyes and red hair, looked just like her. It was disaster.

29:48You know, so we had our squabbles, but not a lot. And I do remember one day, and this is only one occasion in the drawing room, when Mummy was standing in front of Mummy and Mummy saying, all right, who started it? Silence, silence, silence. Come on, I want to know, who started it? And I felt Bunny's hand come down and pinch my bottom. And I said, I did. Oh, dear. That's just shaming. What's your, Julia, what's your first recollection? Of her? Yes. I mean, her rival. Did you resent her rival? Oh, not at all, no, no. I love babies. I love that baby. She was an adorable little cherubic fat baby.

30:36And she was quite a fat little toddler, too. Everything about her was round, and you just wanted to pinch her and have little fat cheeks. Do you have any bad recollection, any naughtiness from her? when you were both little girls? No, I don't remember. She was very accident-prone. I was running around like a sort of gnat, mad thing. And she would try and do everything I did physically when she was really small. And we'd run around the garden. I do remember one time she'd fall, take terrible falls, and get up, brush herself off, off she'd go again. But one time she had a terrible fall and had her tongue out between her teeth and practically bit her whole tongue off.

31:25I remember that very much. I remember blood everywhere. Where were we? Fernacres. Fernacres. Where's Fernacres? Fernacres is in Buckinghamshire. Buckinghamshire. It's near Denham, near Beaconsfield. Beautiful, beautiful house they had. And have you at any stage ever been jealous of one another? When Juliet had this big success on Broadway, We know little appearances in films, then Alice in Looking Glass, but then she finds herself on Broadway, aged about 17, in a huge hit. Broadway, it's big. Did you then, because you were still at school, weren't you? Did you feel jealous? No. No, I was thrilled, absolutely thrilled.

32:09I've never felt competitive with... I've never felt competitive. Have you felt, did you feel competitive with? Never, we never have. I've always been thrilled for her. When Tiger Bay came out and all the fuss was about, you know, this great child actress is the best child performance I've seen since Jackie Coogan and all this. And I thought, my Lord, this is going over the top a bit. Anyway, I went to see it, of course, Tiger Bay. and I instantly was a huge fan. I mean, instantly loved. I saw that amazing performance of that child who was so real. It was like a master class in film acting. So, you know, there was no time for jealousy.

33:06There was just admiration. And Tiger Bay came about because your father had already been cast to play. the lead in it, and they were looking for a child. As we both know, originally, they were looking for a boy. And as we both know, I was on the list of boys being considered. This is right, this is true. You do resent me. My life, I do. I mean, I could have been in therapy about you for a long time. You almost got it, right? It was a long time. Yes. I thought I had got it. I thought the agent phoned and said, I think it's settled. And then something happened. That's getting a story. That really is.

33:41Your father took the director, who was the director? He was a famous director. J. Lee Thompson. J. Lee Thompson. Came to your house. Yes. He's walking in the garden. In the farm. We lived in the farm. He came to meet with Daddy about the script. And sees you in the garden. Yeah. And my whole life, unbeknownst to you, is changed in the flick of the director's look. I'm so sorry. Yeah. God, extra. You could have been interviewing me. I could have an Oscar. I could have made all those films as Disney. You're living here. That's right. Yes, yes. So what happened on that day? What happened? Well, I mean, it sounds like a bullshit story, but can I say bullshit?

34:21Yeah, you certainly can. Oh, I'll say that again. They were walking down the garden, and Lee was talking to Daddy about the film and about the, you know, the story, the boy who sees a murder. he was making it with Horst Buchholz who was this wonderful German film star it was going to be his first English speaking movie and they came to the brow of the hill and below them was this homemade swimming pool do you remember we dug it out with a tractor and it was lined with cement well not we, they well I did it completely alone yes, no the people who worked on the farm the guys who worked on the farm But, you know, it never worked.

35:04It was freezing and full of tadpoles and that horrible thing. So we're looking down, and I was by that pool with some of the kids who lived on the farm. And I was doing television commercials, just messing about and making them laugh. Oh, pretending to be the television commercial, fooling about. She used to do that. She was pretending you were advertising something and just acting. Wonderful pink camé, lovely sick or something you were doing. Yes, Palmolive and Murray Benson, things like that. And acting them out, you know, messing about, just being an idiot. And she looked younger than she was, too.

35:49I mean, how old were you? Twelve. And you looked about nine, actually. Did I? Yeah. She really looked young. You looked 12 in Whistle Down the Wind, but you looked nine in Tiger Bay. eight or nine really young so daddy was going oh yes yes well of course it's very important you know this boy you find the right boy sorry jones and i mean if you don't find the right child you know it's not going to work and he's going yes yes i agree i agree so dad said so what what do you you know have you seen a lot of kids have you have you found the child yet? And Lee said, yes, yes, yes, I think I have. Oh, Dad said, oh, well, that's great.

36:36So who is he? And Lee said, over there. Pointed at me. Now, it sounds like, come on. Yes, it's true, it is. He definitely had a revelation that what a wonderful thing it would be to have it a girl rather than a boy, actually. It worked brilliantly. Because of the relationship with Buckles. And it was a huge... Because it became a love story. Yeah. Between those two. And you fell for Horst, didn't you? Oh, God. That was your first crush. Absolutely. I mean, really big time, didn't you? Oh, yes, I wanted to marry him. In fact, I did suggest to Lee that he did a sequel. And that, because in the film, he obviously goes to prison.

37:19And I suggested that the sequel would be that when he comes out of prison, I'm waiting at the gates all grown up, and we go off and get married. Why not? At least I didn't think about it, but he never actually did anything else. Was he quite sweet to your host? Oh, lovely. He was only 26. Yes, he was very young. He was so good in it. And he was so funny and so sweet, and terribly sweet to me, and made me laugh so much. I absolutely adored him and it opened and it was huge immediately do you remember the premiere? I do I remember it very very well I was frightfully excited and I had a new dress and Larry and Vivian were there and mummy and daddy and I had my hair done and you were in New York darling I don't think you were there don't even think Johnny was there he was probably at school school really ruined your life when you were growing up

38:20and so I'm sitting and finally I'm sitting in the cinema and I haven't seen anything because they didn't want me to get self-conscious about you know my nose and my teeth or something like that so I hadn't seen any of of the footage and so I sat there for the first time there boom enormous screen huge face you know and I got hysterics I couldn't stop laughing and my dad kept kicking me, kicking me, kicking me and I realised I should, you know, and it was just erupted out of me, this hysterical laughter and it was very even at the end, you know, when it's very sad and he's been picked up, he's jumped overboard off the ship to rescue her out of the Bristol Channel, you know.

39:14But, yeah, it was a very, very odd experience. I didn't really appreciate the film or me or anything. You know, I was just... You must have been shocked. But it was the beginning of an extraordinary journey. You go back to school, and at school, because it's a ballet school, so there are other show business people there, so they are understanding that you're not resented by the other girls. No, no, no. Did you feel any sort of jealousy? No, no. No, it was all like, this is, you know. But the interesting thing is that when I went off to America and did my first movie and came back and was full of stories about it, they listened for about five minutes, you know, the girls in my dorm and then went to sleep.

40:00They really, it was like, oh, yeah, it's too out of their own experience for them to be able to identify. And it was after Whistle Down the Wind, which was your second film. No, no, no, the second film was a Disney movie. Oh, the second film? Pollyanna. That was your second film? Yes. So you, oh my gosh. And that was huge. Yeah. It was huge. But that was all over in America, so I didn't... But tell us about meeting Walt Disney for the first time. We heard that he wanted to meet me, and he was staying at the Dorchester. Mummy and Daddy said, right, we're all going to go. Jonathan was there. So we all got into a taxi, and it was pouring with rain.

40:41And then suddenly Mummy said, stop. and she said I'll be right back and she jumped out and she rushed back and we were living in a flat in Hay Hill in off Barclay Square and Dad was fuming and said wow we can't be late this is really awful and then she came running out again in the rain clutching this white Pekingese puppy that had actually been given to us by Vivian and it had been given to Vivian by Larry because he was in New York falling in love with Joan Plowright And he, you know, their parting was terribly difficult, wasn't it? Yes. And, you know, he gave her lots of gifts and he wanted her to be happy and he got this beautiful flat in Stone Square, new carpets, lime green carpets.

41:29And then he gave her this beautiful little sleeve peak called Suki, who peed all over her lime green carpet. She said, that's it. So she gave the puppy to us. and we didn't have lime green carpets. They were quite old and it didn't matter so much. And mummy said, I'm going to have it with us on this journey. So we were all in the cab with Suki, who was very, very active, covered us in white fur, and we all got to the Dorchester, terribly excited to meet Walt Disney. What is Walt Disney like? Went up in the lift in total silence, got to the door, the Harlequin Suite, and there's a plaque on the door with a harlequin, a dancing harlequin in red and white stripes.

42:13I can see it clearly to this day. And we're all standing there with Suki snuffling away. And then the door opens, and there is Walt Disney. And we all stood in dead silence. And even Mummy, who never stopped talking, nobody said a word. It's like, that's Walt Disney. We couldn't believe it. It's like, huh? Gobsmacked. So we walked in and we had a wonderful meeting and it was brilliant because I really think that I got the job of Pollyanna because of Suki. Because I didn't have to answer questions and be on my best behavior. We played on the ground. He did. Walt got down on his knees, you know, and played with Suki.

42:57And every now and again we'd shove a very expensive magazine under Suki's bottom if he looked like she was going to pee on the Dorchester's carpets. and they, mum and dad, got on terribly well with Walt and he showed us around this amazing apartment which costs about£6 ,000 a night or something. It's still available if anyone's interested. So I didn't audition and I don't remember talking about Pollyanna. And how many films did you make for Disney in all? Six. And did he stay involved and interested? Every time you went to make a film, did you meet him each time? Oh, very much. And what sort of a figure was he in your life?

43:33Was he a good man, a decent man? darling man a good kind generous humorous warm genuine human being wouldn't you say oh yes what did you learn from him what did Walt Disney as a person give you um I remember asking him once I it sounds a bit twee words to the effect of there is always seems to be but you know there's a very positive message in your movies. What is that message? And he said, I try to show people the best in themselves. And I think that is why his movies are so, one of the reasons, one of the reasons they're so successful is people come out feeling happy about being a human, happy about, there are things to feel good about the world.

44:29Did you find it easy being on the set? Yes. Yeah. I mean, you just were yourself. You had a bit of a learning alliance. You just came and did it. I adored it. It was magic. And I was so lucky to start young. And I'm sure you would agree that when you went into the theatre for the first time, well, we were familiar with movie sets. It was just like home. And theatre. You know, it was like we knew how to behave and knew the protocol. Of the Disney years, was that a bad moment? And what was the worst moment of those six films there? I think what started to go wrong for me was when adolescence got me in its grip.

45:15I remember Peter McHenry saying to me when we were doing the Moonspinners and he was sitting rather miserably on the beach staring out to the Aegean and I went up unwisedly and said, is everything wrong? Or are you all right? Or something like that. And he said, I'm riling against fate. I said, oh, why? He said, oh, this is awful, twisted adolescence. And I think adolescence is a dreadful time for so many kids. And you suddenly, from being so spontaneous and in the moment, and just loving being where you are and what you're doing and not judging yourself, suddenly you become aware and self-aware and it's horrendous.

46:08And I couldn't, you know, I would get up in the morning. It started slowly when I was doing the parent trap and I was 14. I would get up early in the morning, which is not my best time. I'm not a morning person. and I would hang a towel over the mirror so I didn't have to see my face. So I never had a great feeling about my looks or anything like that, which is just as well. It must be awful to get very old, having been very beautiful, and to see it's gone. So self-consciousness of adolescence made life on the set excruciating for me. I was in a dreadful sort of vice-like grip.

46:58Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades, or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu shantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market. Do you regret now that when you were offered the part of Lolita in the famous Stanley Kubrick Lolita film, that James Mason was going to play the lead in?

47:39I think it's your parents and Walt Disney between them said this is not a good idea and it didn't materialize. That would have been a transition to a different kind of role. Do you now regret that they made that decision for you? Um, part of me does, part of me, because I thought it was, I didn't understand the full implications of Humbert Humbert's obsession with Lolita, but I could see that it was a wonderful part, and I'd love to have played it. She was fascinating. I would love to have played it, but I totally understand Walt's resistance. I was 14, you know, and who knows if I'd done it where it would have taken me.

48:27And then, of course, what happened is that the films that I did with Walt were of a certain type and I tried to, we, you know, mom and dad and my agent, tried to mix it up a little bit by doing other things so it wasn't just absolute Disney image the whole time, but Disney films were very potent, and they were very widely distributed, whereas at that time, English movies didn't get great distribution. And that's why you got an Oscar, didn't you, as a child star? For Pollyanna. Oh, for a specific film, for Pollyanna. Pollyanna, yeah. To have an Oscar is a jolly nice thing, isn't it? Oh, it's wonderful.

49:09Despite the fact that you managed to lose it. I did, twice. But it was stolen. It was stolen. The first time it was stolen, and the thief returned it inadvertently. And the second time it just disappeared, but I think that was stolen as well. And then a few years ago, I went to Hollywood, and I got a call from the academy, would you come and meet the president about something? Anyway, I went over, tidied myself up a bit, and went to say hello to the president, who was terribly nice, and stepped forward and made an extraordinarily nice speech about the first time he saw Pollyanna and how it changed the trajectory of his life.

49:51And he wanted to be in films ever since. And then he took a velvet cover off some object he was holding and it was a full-size Oscar. So I lost the little Oscar and I got a big, I got a grown-up one instead. You see, he is another person the trajectory of whose life you changed. So it's interesting. And anybody who's listening to us now who knows anyone called Hayley, it is entirely because of you. Because your first name comes from your mother's family name, Hayley Bell. And so there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Hayleys out there, all as a result of you. It's funny, isn't it?

50:30It is funny. You've made an impact on the world. Juliet, how was your adolescence? Was it troubled towards the end? difficult no i can't say i can't say it was you were very moody i was i was well i'm a scorpio and then a bit moody are you no but sexy old scorpio this explains everything i'm pises your scorpio i should have known that when i was sitting there watching alice with a looking glass this explains so much yes so what was your first big affair and did you marry him what a question you brought her up that you were Scorpio no I didn't have a big affair but I did fall in love with the cow herd on the farm who was very very handsome 16, 17 18 I don't know he looked like Michelangelo's but it was all romantic dreams you know it was nothing physical believe me but I was talking about something much more interesting before that what was it you asked me a question oh adolescence you know Hayley it was so different for her because she went through her adolescence publicly on the screen where you know everything is up this close and you get a few pimples or you or you're not feeling so good that day it's it's terrible for it to have to be so public and so I don't remember having a lot of problems and feeling uh you know that I was going through I was at boarding school all through my adolescence until I left and went into the theater and uh and you had the big success with 500 exercise and then you spent much of your life in America yes why is that eventually it's funny my grandmother always used to tell me when I was a child that I was going to live in America when I grew up.

52:29And I always resented it so much because I didn't want to live in America. I didn't want to leave the family and I wouldn't dream of living in America. But in the end, I did. But I'd never planned to. I didn't emigrate. I was just taken. And it wasn't five-finger exercise. I came back after five-finger exercise. And I was here quite a few years working in the West End, in the theatre. but because of the series that I did then in The Professor, which took me to America to work for two years, I started to get more work there than I got here, and it just sort of evolved, and then I decided, you know, I was making good money, I was working constantly, and I bought a house, and I just love California, love the lifestyle.

53:28Thank goodness. What happened to the millions you must have made out of Walt Disney?

53:35These questions, really. It's only because I've read your wonderful book Forever Young. I know some of the answers in a nutshell. In a nutshell. I gave it to the tax man. You were poorly advised at the time and you paid an unnecessarily large amount. It was rather a big chunk. it was you know it was the it was most of it because it was all put into a trust fund um because super tax was calc shows in those days it was 90 so they had to do something i mean i do know the background to this and it's partly because you were poorly advised but also it's partly to do with the naivete of your father i think who there was an innocence about him and a sort of casual optimism.

54:21He had a business manager who made those sort of decisions. Absolutely. I'm not blaming him, but I'm saying that is part and parcel of why it happened that way. And then, you know, Stanley also advised Daddy and not very well. Yes. So, you know, Stanley lost money for Daddy. This is his solicitor. and then the trust company was set up for me. Stanley was also involved in setting up a trust company for Jack Hawkins and the in-run revenue attacked his trust company which affected the law. It created a precedent and so when I reached 21, instead of being given the key to the door, I was handed an envelope across a green tablecloth by Stanley, which was, you know, in our revenue, basically saying, thank you.

55:24You owe us 90 % of your earnings. And I, you know, I've never been very good at figures. I said, what does this mean? I don't understand. And Stanley laughed. I think it means you have to move to America. And that's all he ever said. He was a crook, wasn't he? He was a crook. He was a crook. He didn't give a flying Dutchman.

55:54And, you know, I fought it with the help of even, you know, Lord Goodman. Oh, the great Arnold Goodman, the great lawyer. The great Arnold Goodman, yeah. He couldn't solve it for you. I went to see him at breakfast. That was quite an experience. I imagine he was a large man. He ate a substantial breakfast. He did. And he actually, I had a meeting with him, and he was in his dressing gown. It was just an amazing sight. Anyway, it didn't work. You know, it didn't work. Finally, you know, the House of Lords did buy the book, and they didn't. I actually won. You appealed as far as the House of Lords?

56:31It did, well, up to the Lords. Wow. But the Court of Appeal found for me, and Lord Denning The wise Lord Denning Wonderful Lord Denning He was adjudicating that who was just wonderful and I went to every single day of that case and fell in love with him too He was just He used to scratch his head and push his wig back and leave it there hanging slightly sideways You know, he was a humane human He interpreted the law humanly, didn't he? anyway he found for me and he gave the revenue leave to appeal which they did and up it went to the lords and the lord said no you know this they did it by the book as i said so that was it when you get to heaven lord denning will be waiting for you yes i'll give him a big bunch of flowers but you went on working earning your living yes must was acting different when you were grown up in front of the camera was it a different experience because as a child you were just naturally easy.

57:37Yes. As a grown-up, were you more self-conscious? Was it more difficult? It did. I did. I did go through a period of it being more difficult, and I wasn't very good. And I went through a period of not knowing what kind of parts I ought to be playing. When the contract for Disney ended, he very generously offered to renegotiate and sign another contract. and I didn't have a sensible enough sense of my career and what I ought to be doing, but I didn't want to do more Disney movies. I wanted to spread my wings and have a greater choice and not be limited by that. And then, of course, I didn't know what sort of parts to...

58:23I didn't know what to look for. I didn't know who I was. You know, there was this moment when we're growing up where we're really on that uncomfortable seesaw of being still one foot in childhood and the other foot in being a woman. And I found it awfully difficult to get both feet into womanhood because there was a part of me that didn't want to disappoint people. That, oh, she's not that cute little girl anymore. She's what? I didn't know. So I didn't know what sort of things to look for. and I made some crassly stupid mistakes. What's the big one you turned down? The worst thing I ever did.

59:03I find it difficult to actually articulate it to this day. Spit it out. Jonathan's godfather is Larry Olivier. Oh, not bad. Not bad. And he was shooting a television... Oh, these teeth, I must get them fixed. He was shooting a television series called Hindle Wakes. Oh, yes. And he offered me a part in Hindle Wakes, a small part. And I turned it down. It was too small. I didn't understand. There's no such thing as a small part, just small actors. And that was a big mistake. I mean, Larry called me up and said, Oh, hell, come on, you know, be such fun, do it. And I was like, eh. Yeah. So you're the girl who turned down Laurence Olivier.

59:57Yes. But you said yes to another older man because you married the director, Roy Bolting, when you were still quite young and he was quite old. And that was good because you have a son? Yes, yes. Who is the joy? Absolute joy, yes. But was that, well, obviously, I imagine your parents, were they against it? Were they in favour of it? Oh, my God, they didn't know what to say. I mean, you know, Daddy said, Well, he's a wonderful director. That was a big plus. He's such a good director. But he's older than me. And Mummy looked at me askance and said, Well, so you finally had a role in the hay. And that was it.

1:00:36They didn't really... I mean, Bunny said to me, I hope you know what you're doing. You were much more the cautious one. Oh, how interesting. You had reservations. You weren't on her side totally. You happened to be over in England at that point when I was hovering on the, you know, I can't remember what point in it, but you said, I hope you're doing this for the right reasons or whatever. Because I think Bunny knows me actually better than anybody. And I am a bit of a pushover, which is unfortunate. So you probably married him at the very point were falling out of love with him because you somehow, am I guessing right?

1:01:22You're absolutely dead right. Isn't it weird? How stupid. I mean, I did love him. I did love him. He was wonderful and so clever and terribly good looking and marvellous to me. He did love me very much. He was also very controlling. That was the thing you didn't like about him. you know he was very controlling and i didn't want to upset him and so one goes along one went along with things and of course insecure because of the big age gap was 32 years quite a big age gap yeah yeah it is quite too big but now you're both of you in rather good places in terms of your love lives aren't you you're am i right because both of your your ambition in life was to be like your parents because you have a role model there of laughter, devotion, love, happiness despite the challenges.

1:02:23We all have character flaws and I think I'm right in saying that your mother at times maybe drank too much. I'm not getting this from you, I'm getting this slightly from Sir John, got that flavour. So there were challenges for them but despite that everyone has challenges on they went and so you must have thought this is what we would love to do and you didn't quite or did you juliet managed to using them as a role model for life yes oh definitely you wanted that to be the case oh definitely yes yeah and have you now got there yes yes i'm very very very lucky i'm very much in love with my husband we've been married 45 years years and 46 this year and he's wonderful to me and we have a great life lots of laughter love fun is it the laughter that is the main because again there's an age difference i knew as you i think you may remember i knew his dad maxwell's dad yes yes yes you did uh curiously yeah um and he was quite a character.

1:03:37Yes, I'm sure. Quite mildly. Brilliant. Brilliant. But anyway, quite a character. So I imagine Maxwell is quite a character. Yes. Yes, he is, but he's not anything like his dad. As far as I know. What do you give each other? What has made this last 46 years? Trust.

1:04:01Admiration. Passion. romance service I love to wait on him I love to be a good wife it's a very important role to me and he loves that yeah we have a lot in common I'm going to re-listen to the podcast and write those things down because I think they're important including I know admiration is nice he admires you and you admire him and that is mutual admiration is a nice thing. Oh, I think it's vital. I think for me it's the beginning of a relationship. If I started to admire him before anything, if I start to admire someone, then I'm more open, more ready to love, I suppose. You have to admire somebody as a person, what they stand for.

1:05:03How long have you been with Ferdows now? Quite a while. Nearly 30 years. Again, there's a little age gap. But why not? Why not? Well done, girls, having a couple of toy boys. It's good. Only a little one. Oh, the thing is, you know, people always say that.

1:05:23It's not the main thing about it. It's not, you're attracted to somebody because of who they are. What's been your worst moment together as sisters? Have you had a bad moment? Or maybe you haven't. Oh. In 80 years. The funeral of our parents. Of course. Frankly. Yeah. Yeah. But that was just totally sad. That's just life. That is just life. Yeah. But that wasn't a bad moment together. Oh, what do you mean? I mean, did we have a bad moment between you? Obviously, that was the darkest hour, because losing them both. But between you, have you ever had bad days? No. Clearly not. No. Bad moments. Not lovely.

1:06:00You know, another thing is, of course, we haven't we haven't spent all of our lives together because I live in America and Hayley lives here. And although we get together as much as we can, we have we don't spend every all of our time together. So I wish we spent a lot more. But the time we do spend is such wonderful quality time. We're so close. We're so in tune with each other. We have so many memories that only we know that we can live again and just be children again. I think it's wonderful. And maybe it's a recipe for a happy marriage. It don't live with each other 24-7. so that when we actually do spend time together, we make sure it's the best.

1:07:00But we also have a wonderful example with Daddy because he was almost as enthusiastic as you, and every single thing he did, he wanted it to be the best experience, the best. otherwise you feel life is slipping away and it goes so fast and we don't want to waste time. I remember you saying to me once, you know, you were having a difficult time, you know, with your marriage, not Maxwell, it was before you met Maxwell. And you said, it's such a waste of time, such a waste of time. And this was, oh God, this must be 40 years ago. Much more if I wasn't with Maxwell. Because the boys were small. Yeah, 50 years ago.

1:07:58Was it really? Anyway, and that was the first time that I thought, yes, you can't waste time. So when I am with Juliet, I don't want to waste time. But that doesn't mean we're sort of like being Pollyanna together and just skipping her through the daisies. I look forward to being with her because we can have some really, really, really good talks. And to have somebody in your life that you can really talk to about everything and know that it goes no further and there's that trust that she talked about, that is a great, great gift. I've got a small gift to give you in a moment, Hayley. You're very clever.

1:08:41It is your 80th birthday. Thank you. But before we go, just three quick questions to each of you. When I say a moment of joy in 84 years, Juliet, what's the moment of joy that springs into your head? A moment of joy. Don't think about it, Juliet. Just say, a moment of joy. Yes. A moment of joy in your life. A moment of joy. I think... You go first. That's the advantage of having a younger sister. You can tell her, you go first. I think it's because I have so many moments of joy. I don't know which one to pick. Well, it's one that comes straight into your head. The one that comes straight to me is when Crispian was born.

1:09:25Crispian is your, how many children do you have in your head? He's my oldest son. And when Ace was born. The first time you look at your children, and I'm sure you'll agree, it changes your life. And each one changed my life in a different way. And I remember standing at the window of Queen Charlotte's Hospital holding this baby. And how old were you then? Very young. 25. Yeah. And I looked out into the world and I was high, like I'd been on a drug. And I looked out and I saw all the people walking in the street and I saw them all as somebody's baby. Everybody had been someone's baby. and had been special and loved and now look at them.

1:10:16I don't mean that really. And Ace the same. You just feel put on another level when your children arrive. So that's it. And I, you know, Oscars and blah, blah. Not that I went to pick mine up. But, you know. You were working, were you? You were at school. I was at school. And, you know, I've had wonderful moments as Bunny says. glorious lovely moments but they have to be the outstanding months well the same yes i mean children when you have a baby that euphoric moment of having a baby she said that you made the mistake letting her go first you've got to give us another one so i'm going to go to a different moment of joy altogether it was the opening night of five finger exercise on broadway which even though I was only 18, 17, 18, it was like, to me, to suddenly be on Broadway was just a thrill, with John Gilgad directing and Brian Bedford, who became my best friend in the world, playing my brother, and Roland Culver, and Jessica Tandy, and blah, blah, blah.

1:11:28And an amazing audience. First night, walked into Sardi's, where everybody always went after first nights, right? and there was instant clapping, and I remember turning to Mummy, and I said, who were they clapping for? And she said, you. And I looked around, and the whole of Sardis was standing up applauding me. Wow. And I thought, this is a dream. It doesn't get better than that, does it? It doesn't get better than that. Wow. And the moment of sadness I think you both touched on, because you said it simultaneously. Yeah. The death of your parents. Yeah. And did you have a sort of joint, I seem to remember there was a joint memorial of some kind.

1:12:16When did they die? What happened? 2005. Five. Yeah. The memorial was kind of joint, but they died six months apart. Yeah, yeah. And I suppose, I think his funeral, I think that the whole episode of his dying, was the saddest moment for me and his death because I was in America. I was doing a soap. I was working and we knew that he was dying, but we couldn't get to him. And I remember going to a field of poppies. These California poppies come out in April and there's miles and miles and miles of them and you go and you go it's something to go and see and we went and that day I called him and he was he was on his deathbed and definitely and his carer Patricia said yes he you'll be able to hear him he can hear you so you talk to him bunny talk to him and I I could just hear him his breathing and I think that was the saddest moment I could ever remember because I knew when I put the phone down that he was going and I would never see him again Do you think in some ways they were overwhelming for you?

1:13:49Whenever we meet we touch on them they're very much part of your lives both of them are Was there a downside to that, do you think? Or has it only ever been a positive thing? Has the tide of them washed over your lives, is what I'm saying. Has there ever been moments when the tide came out of it, do you think? I don't think so. Not for me, I don't think so. I think they were always an inspiration, even in their declining years, when she was, you know, not herself and he was blind and all his friends were dead because he was the last man standing. And still there was that wonderful optimism, enthusiasm, enjoyment of other people's success, our success, our marriages, our love lives, we were settled, we were happy.

1:14:45his happiness of that. Everything about them was a good example. What finally has life taught you? What's the lesson you want to share? Do you both have grandchildren now? Yeah. So what is the lesson you want? Two remarkable, different, but shared lives. What's life taught you?

1:15:10Gosh. Well, I'll say, and Hayley was already mentioning it, I would say don't waste time. Live every moment as if it is your last because you don't know. And age has nothing to do with it. Things happen, accidents, sickness, to see bombs, who knows? So don't waste a minute. And the key to life is being in the present. I do absolutely believe that. Not regretting the past, not being afraid of the future, where maybe it's not going to happen what you're afraid of. So try and be in the moment. That was my heartfelt feeling. In the moment, Hayley? Oh, I struggle for that. I do struggle with that. I mean, I'm a basically very optimistic person, and which maybe I'm rather shallow.

1:16:10I come back to being happy quite quickly. Shallow is not a good word for you, really. I think I am not good at...

1:16:29I'm a mere Culper person and I'm not putting this out there as being something anybody else should seek to be either I find it almost impossible to forgive myself for the things that I've done and the things that I have not done and I can't I can't know I can't escape it How right you are, if I may say so, because you've ruined my life. And you've also been the making of it. How interesting that that is mea culpa. You blame yourself all the time, do you? Yes. I'm always honoured about it. And no mea culpa, Hayley, no, you have nothing to be... Well, we all make mistakes. We all make mistakes, darling.

1:17:15Of course we do, but then we forget about them. But I can't. I can't. Do you spend more time brooding about the mistakes than brooding about the good things, then? Yes. No. We've got to change that. I do. I do. You know, but the older I've got, oh my God, I can't believe how old I am. Nor can anybody else. The book's called Forever Young. That's how we think of you. One of the great things that's come to me is the ability to love much more easily. I love people. I love experiences. I love nature. I love the world. I find opening my heart and feeling love and giving love much, much, much easier than I ever have done.

1:18:12I'm still beating myself up in private, but I guess it's a sense of gratitude for what I've had and where I am now. And my children and my grandchildren are wonderful and healthy and my partner, who is still with me through thick and thin, the ups and downs and ins and outs, and he's experienced it all over the last nearly 30 years. So tremendous gratitude, I think, for all the wonderful gifts and benefits that I've had. And the only regret is that I haven't always made the most of them. I haven't always recognized what was in my lap. Well, you know, the great movie director in his 90s said to a friend of mine, oh, don't waste your 80s.

1:19:11That's what I've learned. So you're coming into your 80s. Don't waste your 80s. Yes, I won't waste them. And thank you for sharing the love with us today. I love you. So that's something. You don't need to feel guilty. I love you. Here's a little present for your 80th birthday. I love you. I hope it's one of your books. No, it isn't one of my books. You've got so many of my books. It's so sweet. It is a book, though. Well, have a see what it is. Open it up and see if you like it. It's a little present. It's a little present. It's just a little present. It's got a nice tissue paper. It is for your birthday.

1:19:43Tell me what you think. Take off the top. Oh, look. Oh, so kind. How thoughtful. A sweet picture of Daddy and me. From the chalk garden. Is that what you were in? Yes. Lovely. A chalk. And a beautiful silver frame. That's really actually lovely. That's lovely. There's Sir John. There's Hayley. There is Hayley, looking very little different. And there's Juliet, still the slightly older sister. But you could be twins. Well, you were a twin. Yes. She was a twin. Gosh. Maybe I was the one that fell away and came back again. No, you weren't, darling. You can't claim that part. Anyway, you're a fabulous double act.

1:20:25Hayley Mills, Juliet Mills, thank you so much for being with us today. Oh, thank you for this opportunity. Fun talking to you. Lovely. Lovely. Bless you, Giles.

1:21:11Rosebud is produced by Harriet Jane, artwork by Freya Betts, and music by Phil Leppard.