JoJo Siwa

0:00It's Rosebud. It's a big one. It's a very big one. I'd say it's bulletproof. Cue the music.

0:30Welcome to Rosebud. My name is Giles Brandreth and I'm about to introduce you to this week's special guest. And they are a very special guest, but they're unusual because it's a guest that I had never heard of until I met her. And indeed, you may never have heard of her, but I assure you, she is hugely famous. I know this because I encountered her not long ago and she was surrounded by people, paparazzi and others, and I thought this person is obviously interesting. So I put myself into the mix and had a selfie taken with her. I then was showing this selfie to my grandson, Rory, who is 18 years of age, and he went, well, slightly wild.

1:11He said, Grandpa, you know Jojo Siwa? You're in a selfie with Jojo Siwa? Oh, Grandpa, I can't believe it. And before I knew what was happening, he was sort of, whatever they do now, snapchatting, texting, sending messages anyway to friends and family, boasting, my granddad knows Jojo Siwa, and he was going sort of personally viral. People were amazed. The point is this, Jojo Siwa, who I hope you're going to listen to over the next hour, is a very unusual phenomenon, and she is a phenomenon. She's a child star, not just any old child star. She's the child star who with her single boomerang. The video was viewed one billion times.

1:59Time magazine, I think, had her once as one of the hundred most influential people in the world. She is extraordinary. So you're going to meet Jojo Siwa. And maybe like me, you will find her difficult to understand at first. I did. Honestly, she didn't stop talking at such speed. I had to sort of, well, I had to gradually acclimatized myself to the way she was speaking. But I listened and I learned. And the more I listened to her, the more fascinating I found her. I've always been intrigued by the phenomenon of the child star, what happens to them, how they survive. And well, she's a very interesting case in point.

2:37Jojo Siwa. She's the daughter of a dance instructor mum and a chiropractor dad. She comes from Nebraska. She's been famous really since she was nine years old when she appeared in the US on a show called Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition. And then she was on the hit teen show Dance Moms. She hit the big time, big time when she was about 12 with that first single that I mentioned, Boomerang. Then she signed, wait for it, a multi-million dollar deal with Nickelodeon and came out, I think aged about 16, 17, as a lesbian. Now, plot twist. She's recently been in Celebrity Big Brother. You may have seen it, you may not.

3:23And in the house, she met the British reality star Chris Hughes, who I've also met, who is very nice. The point is, it was love at first sight. They are now dating. as one of the things we will be discussing in this interview. If you enjoy Young Love in full bloom, you're in for a treat over the next hour. I should add, listen to this and get your children, grandchildren, they'll want to listen to it too, because it's the only podcast she is doing while she is in the UK. If you want an extended conversation with Jojo Siwa, this is where you've got to stay. and do stay with it. As I say, the first five minutes, you need to adjust your ears.

4:10But as it goes on, I think you will be wowed and wooed and will be in wonder at this remarkable young woman who is my special guest on Rosebud Today. It's Jojo Siwa. Cue that music.

4:39Jojo, our very first question is always the same question, and that is, what is your very first memory? God, it's such a hard question to answer because a lot of my memories that I have, I have because I've seen them, like I've seen videos or photos. I can remember being really little, and I can remember if you're under the age of 16, turn this off, stop listening for a second, or fast forward 45 seconds if you're under the age of 16, I can remember sneaking around my house to try and find where Christmas presents were hidden. And I can remember, like, why is my bathroom under construction right now?

5:19And I was only five and being confused. Because the Christmas presents were kept in the bathroom. Yes, so the bathroom was under construction. And so it was out of bounds. Yeah. Work going on here, you may not come. Yeah, they just said it's overflowed, it's really bad, the plumber's got to come, don't go in there. Gosh. They did good. They did good, right? Yeah. And where is this happening? Where are you living? I was living at a time called Omaha, Nebraska. Say it again? I was living at the time in a place called Omaha, Nebraska. Omaha, Nebraska. Yeah, Omaha, Nebraska, middle of America. I grew up there when I was nine.

5:50It's kind of when I started being on TV. But who were your parents? Who was looking after you there? My mom and dad. So my dad's name is Tom, and my mom's name is Jess. She was a dance teacher. He was a chiropractor. A what? A chiropractor? Yeah. Looking after the bad backs and things. Yep, backs, necks, all of it. So you're a little five-year-old girl. What's your picture of your mother at that time? How do you visualize her? Describe her to us. I really, really respected my mother. Still do. At the time, though, I just wanted her to be happy with me, proud of me. I just wanted to do what she wanted me to do.

6:24I felt very connected to her, for sure. Were they brothers and sisters? I have one brother, yeah. And older than you? A little bit older. He's three years older than me. So you arrive, there's an older brother, there's this lovely mother who's a dance teacher. Yes. And she's pretty, like you. Thank you, that's very true to me. Well, I don't know. I mean, is she pretty like you? No, she's gorgeous. We love her. She's gorgeous. Yes. We love her. And your dad, a chiropractor, that means he's manipulating people. Yeah, he's cracking backs left and right. He's a great guy. I actually look more similar to my dad than I do my mom, but everyone thinks I look like my mom, and then they meet my dad, and they're like, whoa, no, you are your dad.

6:59And they're still together? They're still together. Even better. Even better. They have survived. And why do you think they've survived? Because it's a difficult world. Not every marriage does well. Very difficult. And they spent a lot of time apart from one another as well. Spent bulk of my childhood apart from one another. For work reasons. Yeah, for work reasons. Yeah, so that way my brother could stay home and stay in school. Because that's what he liked. And so that way my mom could be in L.A. with me doing what I liked. I think they stay together because they have a greater understanding of one another.

7:26and they both get what they need out of the relationship from one another and they have trust. Their trust is unreal. Unreal. And what's your sweetest memory of the pair of them together as a couple? Oh, boy. I mean, there's so much. That's the hardest question to narrow in on.

7:53It's small, but it's my favorite thing to do with them and it's played this game called Dr. Mario. What is Dr. Mario? Yeah, so Dr. Mario, it's a game on the old school Nintendo, and the original Nintendo, and it's a really, really fun game. It's kind of like Tetris, and now they won't play with me because I'm too good, and it's kind of like a running joke in our family. If I play with them, they make me play three to five levels ahead of them because I got way too good at it, and now we have this really funny thing because Chris, who everybody knows now and loves. He's sweet Christopher boy. He thinks that he would beat me at Dr.

8:30Mario. This is your English friend? Yeah, we met on Big Brother. And now he's not my English friend. He's a little more than that. He's your beau. You can call him your English beau. He's my little more than that. He's my special boy. Very good. But I'm sure he'll come up quite a few times while I'm speaking. But he, yeah, he thinks he's going to, he thinks he can beat me at this game. And my whole family's running with it because there's no chance. Like he literally, I would be like in the top 10 players in the world of this game. Like I got freakishly good at it. Are you a competitive person anyway?

9:06Not anymore. I used to be. I used to be super competitive. Now I just like to have fun. So as a little girl, I'm trying to picture you. Describe your bedroom. You had your own bedroom. What did you share with your brother? I did have my own. it was a hot pink zebra oh yeah oh yeah she was full out from the beginning she knew who she was hot pink the whole room yeah pink walls she was sassy very good and what about the duvet and pillows yeah that was what was like zebra and feathers and it was like it was full out wonderful yeah and what were the toys you had as a little girl I had these dolls and I remember I loved these two dolls their names were Teasley and Rosalie that was my names for them that had other dolls named Tissue, Farty, Snotty, and Burger.

9:50Tissue, Farty, Snotty, and Burger. Yeah, which is me right now. I need tissues. I'm snotty. I'm not farty, actually, right now. I'm burger. There's so much happening. I got my first experience of hay fever. We have an actress in this country called Miriam Marguerite, who we've had on this podcast, and she is farty. She is farty. She makes a feature of it. She arrives and breaks wind. We're finding your tissue now. Please. That would be nice, but let's go on chatting. So you have the dolls. You're in your room. You're having fun. You're happy. You're a happy little girl. Oh, yeah. So here we are at home.

10:21Your older brother, you get on well with him? Oh, yeah. We were best friends forever. I don't know how my parents did it. I really don't. He's always been a good example for how I should be in three years since I was very young. He taught me how to be as a three-year-old, how to be as a six-year-old, how to be as a 12-year-old, how to be as a 20-year-old. He taught me all those things by doing it first and leading by a good example. What's he called again? His name is Jaden. Jaden. And we love him. Oh, God. Who was your first friend outside the family unit? Currently or back in the day? No, back in the day.

10:53Little girl time. Your first ever friend outside of Jaden and your parents. Oh, boy. Thinking really little, my first friend was probably a girl named Faith. Probably like four, four or five. We were really good friends. And can you remember the first school you went to? Yeah, I went to a preschool. named Sacred Heart School. So cute, little red and white striped heads. Sacred Heart, does that mean you're a Catholic family? Yeah, I grew up Catholic, yeah. And your parents still have faith? Do they go to church and things? Yeah, it's, I think back in the day, we were definitely more involved or committed or consistent, I guess is probably the better word, is consistent.

11:34But yeah, my dad, especially, like he'll be, whenever he goes home to Nebraska now, he makes it a point to go to Sunday church with grandma, and he does, you know, he does his biggest, but it's hard. Life gets really chaotic at times, but in COVID, my mom was like, we're doing virtual mass, everybody. I was like, okay. And we would watch virtual mass. It's cute. Oh, well done. So it's important to them. The thing for my family is they always just taught my brother and I, it doesn't matter what you believe in, but it's, you know, important to have something to believe in. And that's something that actually, before we go on stage, I tell my dancers, I say, I don't care if you believe in God and Jesus, rocks and crystals, Santa Claus, or nothing, but whatever it is that you believe in and you pray to, pray to it, believe in it, and ask for help, and ask for happiness, and ask for, you know, help getting through this show.

12:20Doesn't matter what you believe in, just believe in it. And at the Sacred Heart, do you remember any of the teachers or people in charge? I remember her because I've gone back there, and I've done stuff with the preschoolers now, and I do stuff with the high school, because it's a preschool and a high school. And yeah, her name is Miss Wachter. She is lovely. Miss who? Her name is Miss Wachter, Sarah Wachter. Miss Wachter. Shout out to Miss Wachter. We love her. She is incredible, incredible. And that school just, yeah, it just like instills those little early on values that you don't even realize you're instilling.

12:49But they've lovely, lovely school. And obviously you were dancing at home because there was your mother dancing. Of course. And at what level was she teaching dance? I mean, my mom was a really good teacher. She was a better teacher than she was dancer. Highest, highest level. She, so good. Unreal. She changed a bit of the Midwest dance community for sure. Oh, so she was a significant figure in that part of the world as a dance teacher. Oh, yeah, she was very good, very good. And did she encourage you as a little girl to dance? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I loved it when I was really little. I really gravitated towards it.

13:20As I got older, I actually didn't like it as much. After I started doing it, you know, publicly on TV, I started to kind of sway away from it. Two, three, four, five, six, I really loved it. Can you remember the first time you performed in front of an audience of any kind? I can, I can, I've seen it, so I can remember it by that, but I don't remember it in my own brain. And what was it the first time? It was a solo to the song from Hairspray, Mama, I'm a Big Girl Now. I was two years old. I was in diapers in a little pink and orange costume. So cute. So little. I can imagine. You can't remember it.

13:51Can I imagine it was very cute indeed? Oh, the video is precious. Oh, fantastic. So what's the first recollection you have of you, JoJo, knowing I'm on a stage that the people watching this is going well or not going well? Oh. The first time I can remember feeling that feeling. I'm trying to think one that I haven't seen, right? Because it's hard because I've seen it so much.

14:22When I was probably eight, I remember doing a dance. And it was about a little girl being homeless. And I was the homeless child. And I can remember looking at the judges and feeling like they were really convinced that I was this character. and it was a beautiful solo and told a beautiful story. So I would say when I was eight. And were you moved by the story as you were doing the dance? Oh yeah, always. I think that was always my specialty in dance was really committing to the character and really telling the story. And that was something your mother taught you in the early days or not? It was, but it was also something that I just had and that was my strength for sure.

15:01So here you are, little girl, you're at school, four, five, six. Are you beginning to think, I'm going to be a dancer, I'm going to be a performer? Because your mother is thinking that, obviously. Is she, I mean, a traditional show business mom? No, she's originally from Iowa. Moved to Nebraska. No, no, she's never done this before. She's a dance teacher, you know what I mean? But she's ambitious for you. She's the one who drove the show. She took what I wanted to do, and I think this is what all great parents do. They take what their kid wants to do and they run with it, right? They don't force anything on their kids, but whatever ball they pick up, whatever they show interest in, they run with.

15:39And there was something different about me. And the only way you can justify that my mom was right is that I'm still doing it now. You know what I mean? I'm conscious enough now and aware enough now that I could go, okay, look, first of all, I've made enough money to never do anything again in my life if I wanted to. But that's not the reason why I do it. You know what I mean? I could go away right now if I wanted to and never say anything. but I love it and I have the passion for it and that's how you know it's real right I'll be super honest I wasn't aware of that when I turned 18 I wasn't aware of that at all but now at 22 I am aware of that completely that even now literally today could be my last day working if I wanted to but I would never do that I love it you know what I mean so age seven eight yeah as you're because you really turned professional about nine yeah how did that transition happen how was what happened When I was little, I was five and I went to kindergarten and I was very, very smart.

16:34I was really smart. And my mom taught me how to read and write and do basic math really early in life when I was like three. Then my mom decided to homeschool me. So then I was homeschooled. and I there was just the drive I guess that I had I was always practicing always wanting it always singing always dancing always putting on a performance putting on a show um and then yeah everything that was just dance it was always just dance competitions dance that was my that was my world and were you winning the dance competitions oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah it's it's crazy to like say now like oh I was unbeatable but genuinely as a kid I was unbeatable it was nuts nuts till I got a little older and went to dance homes then anybody could beat me I couldn't care less but when I was little I had a fire that you just it was unreal when I was nine is when there was an audition for a tv show and that's how my mom what was the tv show it was called Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition and she read about it somewhere yeah so on season one they had an advertisement that was like, if you want to be on season two, submit here.

17:39And my mom did. And then that was my first show. And you flew somewhere for the audition? No, so it was an online audition. And then the final audition process was in New York. So we went to New York. First time there, my mom drug me everywhere. Oh, everywhere. I saw everything. And then, yeah, a few weeks later, we started filming the show in California. And did your dad approve of this? I mean, your mom was driving it. Oh, yeah, my dad loved it. He's so supportive. Still to this day, so supportive. So she went off with you while he stayed at home so that your elder brother could go to school.

18:10Yes. And normal life could carry on. And my dad was the provider of the family at the time. He financially, you know, he was a chiropractor, great, great career. And he definitely provided for the family. And so you joined this show. Yes. And what's the first moment you realized other people know who I am? I was at a dance convention after the show was airing and people were not leaving me alone. They were touching me. They were petting my hair and I was really uncomfortable. Didn't like it at all. And yeah, that made me be like, whoa. I mean, grownups are doing this, treating you like a doll.

18:45Yeah. Yeah. And it was hard. I was, because these people were once my friends and now they're like treating me so weird. It was the weirdest thing. But then after a day, I was like, oh, it's okay. You coped with it. Yeah, and I figured out how to handle it, you know what I mean? And it just kind of became, in a way, my new normal. And how did you handle it? What was your method of handling it? Honestly, just keep walking forward. I just kept walking forward. I just kept dancing. Yeah, I just kind of tried to focus on what I was doing. Was this the show where there was the tough dance teacher? Yeah, you're thinking of Dance Moms, which is like Abby's ultimate.

19:24The first show is kind of like a spinoff of Dance Moms. And that, I've read there was some rather gruesome teacher. Yeah. But you coped. It's a tough world, the world of dance, isn't it? The dance, exactly. It's like football coaches. They're just tough. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've had, on this podcast, we have choreographers and people saying, actually, it is a discipline. It is. Hard work is required. You know? Oh, yeah. It's not for... Dance is hard. Dance is hard. And as tough as Abby Lee is, she just, who's the teacher on Dance Moms, she just displays the behavior publicly on TV. whereas she's not the harshest dance teacher I've ever had.

19:59I've had way harsher. And does that bother you or do you actually think I've learned from it? I've for sure learned from it. It taught me so much. She taught me so much how to sink, how to swim. Yeah, absolutely. So this happened through your teens. Yes. And did you like the way it was developing or was there a moment where you thought, I don't want this to go on? Oh, no, I loved it. I loved every second of every day. And I don't think I knew what was going on for a bit. Because it was just life. You know what I mean? I was just living life. But then as it got bigger and I got to do more, I adored it.

20:36And was puberty a problem for you? I think puberty is a problem for everybody in their own little way. I think I was very lucky going through it. I'm not really phased by much. You know what I mean? I asked for a reason. Why? I wrote a show years ago about Alice in Wonderland. And we did a TV series. And the girl who played Alice was brilliant and charming. Yeah. And then in the middle of the series, puberty struck. Yeah. And she was no longer the girl she had been in series one. Yeah. And in series two, it didn't matter because it's Alice in Wonderland. Who cares? But she was very self-conscious about it.

21:14And then I'm afraid it became series three. Sadness developed. She didn't want to grow up. She then developed an eating disorder, et cetera. Yeah. So that's why I'm conscious that I know. I definitely remember being 13 and I had a friend who was just about to turn 13 and we were filming High Top Shoes, one of my music videos, and she said, oh, I'm starting to feel really weird about the way I look. Like, why am I doing that? I never thought that before. And I said, well, honestly, I said, just wait till you turn 14 because it doesn't get better. It gets worse. And she was like, what do you mean?

21:48I was like, it just changes and you just feel different. but I think every girl goes through that. I think every boy goes through that as well, I'm sure in a way, but I think eventually if you can get to a place where you think, look, you just have to realize what's important in life and what you look like is important, sure, to an extent though, you know what I mean? It's not the most important thing and your every body is physically beautiful, every single one, no matter size, no matter color, learn I'm out of shape nothing and I think that's a hard concept to wrap your head around when you're so young I wish we went through puberty at this age because you're old you can handle it you can if I was to have my body change right now I'd be like man all good you know what I mean but at that age you're like whoa what are these things you know what I mean and and what are these feelings and what what is all this and um and did you have people to talk to at that stage about it with your mom I wouldn't have talked to my mom about those sorts of things yeah or indeed my dad but I come from a different generation when you didn't talk about these things at all yeah I mean I for sure I I was very open with my mom absolutely and I had very good friends and where I'm lucky is my best friends at that time of my life were way older than me and essentially like older sisters I I've always gravitated towards people older than me that's very normal for me when I was I have this like pocket of age that's like that's my group of people and always been 10 years older than me and um so they they were kind of able to put good perspective onto me you know what I mean who was the best of those friends and what did they give you oh man I would say they just it's a pair of sisters and they they were god at the time 31 and 27 I believe and so they were past the age of partying they were past the age of you know drinking is cool They were past the age of, you know, sleeping with people's cool.

23:48They were past the age of kissing anybody and everybody's fun. They were past the age of be bad, have fun, get in trouble. They were past that age of, you know what I mean? And so when I was, you know, 15, 16, 17, that stuff wasn't cool to me. You know what I mean? Because my friends taught me better. You know what I mean? My friends taught me that. Like, no, it's not cool. It's gross. You know what I mean? And so it really put good perspective on me.

24:25Thank you.

24:43actually kind of a crazy story so I had a I had a makeup artist since dance mom she was incredible love her so very much she was another person that was like a best friend to me really again older she was a professional makeup artist and so way older than me um she didn't say way older but you know 15 years older 15 years older and she had she was coming on tour and we were really excited we had all these fun ideas and I liked her because she would let me help her with my makeup You know, she would let me do some things myself and it was just fun. We had a good time and she would Help me when I needed help.

25:18That wasn't my mom. You know what? I mean, she was really good to me Yeah, so i'm going i'm getting prepared to go on tour and about three days before we leave to go on tour I my mom gets a call Freaking out that she is in the hospital and she has essentially died and my mom said what and um They said it's really bad. Come say goodbye and so my mom told me she's like i don't know what's going on but we need to go we need to get in the car we need to drive down there and we need to go say goodbye to your makeup artist and she was so much more than my makeup artist like so much more she traveled with me everywhere as a kid she it was me my mom and her that traveled it was it was yes my makeup artist but she was like my best friend like she was like if something happened to my mom i would want to be under her custody at the time you know what i mean because it was really hard we literally went to the hospital to say goodbye.

26:08I'll never forget. I've never said, I don't like saying no to a fan photo. It's my biggest pet peeve. I, I, I recently actually just went through something where my, my ex made me say no. And that I will never forgive myself for that. But the only other time that I said no to a fan photo was I, I just said goodbye to her at the hospital while she was in a, in a coma essentially. And, um, we went through the McDonald's drive through Mackey's drive through and the workers were really excited to see me. And I remember my mom saying like, hey guys, I know you're excited, but she just said goodbye to her friend in the hospital that's gonna pass away.

26:43She really can't function right now. Like just like, I know you're really excited. We feel horrible, but like she really can't right now. And the Mackey's workers were so sweet. Like it was fine, but I will never forget hearing my mom say that because it made it feel really real. All this is happening. I just said goodbye to her. I'm devastated. At the same time, I'm going on a concert tour in two days. I can't even think properly right now, but I do have to think who is going to do my face, who is going to do my hair. She did it all. And the answer was, I didn't want to think about that, but everybody on the team, you know, was asking, they said like, look, obviously like we have to keep going right now.

27:19What are we going to do? What do you want to do? Do you say it? We'll make it happen. And I said, I'm going to do it myself. I said, she backed the whole kit. I know how to do it with her stuff. I'm going to take her kit. She won't care. And I'm going to do it myself. and everybody said okay so that's how that started about two weeks into the tour uh we got a call and she had woken up it was by miracle she she should not have woken up no way and she woke up and she called and she was like just a few days until the tour starts i'm so excited and we were like yes yes we'll see you so soon like it was we just we played along with it because she was so excited and so so ready for it but um yeah that got me on that path and then it took her a while to recover and by the time she recovered fully uh i was years deep now into doing my makeup and i loved doing it and she still works with us to this day on different things she just painted my studio for me she throws all of our parties for us she helps with music videos she she we see her three or four times a week she's still so involved in our lives still works with us a bunch yeah incredible incredible comeback story.

28:26I bet you didn't expect that story when asking how did I get started on my own makeup. Did you in those years with the older women around you you avoided most of the dangers and the disasters that others got into but were there any dark moments? Are there any things that you think maybe was that a good idea? Or anything that you felt at the time went wrong? Not particularly. I mean the one thing that I did that I was like bad idea was I dyed my hair brown using a box dye and then to get it back to blonde, it like all fried off. It was really bad. It's been blonde since you were a very little girl.

28:58Yeah. When did you start that? Your mother started that, didn't you? Yeah, when I was two. Yeah, really little. She was dying you blonde at two? Yeah. She was a bit of a showbiz mom, I'm afraid. Whatever you say. Look. I know she was lovely and I know Nebraska brings up the best women in the world but she wanted a blonde girl. Here's the thing and this is what I'll say about my mom. If right now I was to be miserable, sad, unhappy with my life, unhappy with my career. And I guess my hair now goes blonde, brown, blonde. So I have a little bit of brown in there. But if I was to be like, no, I'm an all natural brown.

29:33I want my hair normal. I want to be clean cut. Then I would say, oh, my mom, my mom didn't do what she was supposed to do. My mom was not a, I don't think being a stage mom is a bad thing at all. I think without, without her, I would never, never be doing what I want to be doing. You know what I mean? It's not even about doing what I'm doing today. It's about doing what I want to be doing. You're not alone. I won a dance competition in a town called Broadstairs when I was seven years of age. There you go. And it was my mother who put me in for it. It was acrobatic dancing. There you go. Sadly, it didn't lead anywhere.

30:04Hey, but you got that one win. I've got that one. I've still got the certificate. It's there. It's framed. There you go. If I'd known, I'd have brought it for you to see. Yeah, there you go. See, so you get it. But that's exactly the point is she did everything right. When did you begin to sing? I was little. I was five and I started lessons and then I was told that I wasn't a good singer and so I stopped. And then when I was 13, I released a first song and that song exploded out of nowhere. Thin air. Crazy. And you went viral? Yeah. How old were you when you went viral and the world began to know who you are?

30:40I would say with that song. That song was called Boomerang. Yeah, of course. And that song when I was 13 is when it came out and I would say that was the like... Boomerang. And you're global. Crazy. It's fantastic. It's crazy. And it hasn't ruined you, which is fantastic. Some people do get ruined. Oh, yeah. And you've seen that. It's very hard to be a child star. Very, very hard. And I am honest when I say I know my brain's not fully developed. I know my thoughts are probably going to change on my childhood and how I feel in the next three years. You know what I mean? As a woman, your brain's developed when you're 25.

31:13But I think I'm definitely ahead, of course, in life. You know what I mean? When it comes to brain development. but where I'm at right now I absolutely love my childhood and I wouldn't change a single thing about it at all and you're tell me a little bit more about your dad and you and your relationship yeah he was always the fun parent he was we used to go on bike rides all the time we used to have a don't tell mom joke this one time where I was riding the bike and I was showing him I could do this cool swerve move and he was like Jojo stop and I was only like five and then I swerved in front of him fell off my bike he ran over me because he was riding behind me he flew off of his we landed in the street it was a disaster like we landed we both looked up and we were like don't tell them all like that was like that's what we were worried about like he was he's the fun parent still to this day the fun parent and when you're traveling around the world how often do you get in touch with him oh he's here right now oh he comes with you yeah oh great yeah oh yeah i'm pleased to hear that yeah and what about you're a teenager now you've gone viral dance show boomerang way it's all happening your first crush my first crush i would say my first proper crush was on a kid named thomas i would have been 12 oh no actually my first crush would have been elliot because that was i was younger then so i I would have been 11, maybe even 10.

32:42I was really little. And what did Elliot have to offer? He was just cute. He was a nice kid. Actually, he ended up becoming my first kiss ever years later when we were 16. And it was just cute. He was just a sweet kid. He's happily married now. He just got married. I hope he is happily married. He isn't thinking back in the middle of the night. Oh, that first kiss. Oh, that first kiss. Sweet 16. Never been kissed. She Hasn't Been Now by Elliot. Yeah, he will always hold that little, he will always hold that title. There's, yeah, it's cute to look back on. It really is. And we're really good family friends, like, to this day.

33:22Having known a number of child stars, one of the things I've discovered from them is that it's often quite difficult to form relationships. Yes. Because you're not at school like people are. So you don't meet people your own age. You're often on movie sets or dance sets. Absolutely. And all the people around you are older. Yes. And there are stupid old men, but usually there are protective women. And an invisible moat is kept around you. And you don't need a real life. So you can smile at people, but actually developing a relationship is difficult. Is that, A, is that true? That is absolutely true.

33:55And how did you counter that? That is absolutely true. We're talking romantic relationships. Yeah. So, I mean, look, for me, I never really cared about finding love when I was young. I never cared. I had crushes because everybody did, and that's what you talked about. Who do you have a crush on? And it's ever-changing or whatever. So I think it wasn't like a priority for me. I knew that other kids my age were in high school and doing that and whatever. And then I went on a cruise. this is when I was 16 and it was over Christmas and I met this girl and we became really good friends I was having a really rough time on this cruise I wasn't happy I wasn't working but it was at a time in my life where I wasn't necessarily liked in the public eye and people were very mean to me why was that?

34:50I was very fun to bully for people and it was everything it was the way I talked, my height, the way I dressed my hairline, my body my voice. Was this newspaper stuff? Oh yeah, and social media and everything. It was really bad. People my own age were the people that hated me the most. It was very hard. How strange. Even in person, people would be, you know, cruel. And what didn't they like? I mean, everything. They didn't like the way I dressed. They didn't like the way I talked. They didn't like how energetic I was. They didn't like that I didn't act my age. They said I acted younger, but that was hard for me because I was like, no, I'm actually acting older.

35:25I'm working a full life right now and you know it was it was a lot but and it was jealousy and envy and it was and spite unpleasant honestly i don't think at that age you can comprehend that that's what you're doing i think it was just fun for people i think it gave people a rise it gave people a laugh they were able to talk with their friends about oh look how stupid jojo sewell looks that tall baby oh she needs to grow up yeah she's so stupid look at her hairline like that's that's it was fun for people you know what I mean and it's cruel but I quickly realized that if I'm the punching bag it takes it off of somebody else so I was okay with it well done yeah but you met this girl and she was sympathetic she understood no so I so I met this girl and she I was very scared of people my own age and I was having a bad time on this cruise because that's the people that were there I was those age and I didn't want to leave my room and it was I was I was pretty miserable genuinely and then my brother became friends with her and then they were playing uno one night and And so I joined in and whatever.

36:27I was like, I'm going to play one game and I'm going to go to sleep. And this girl looked at me and she said, why are you going to play? You don't know how to stay awake. And I was like, whoa. I was like, no, I can stay awake. And she was like, I don't think you can. And I was like, go on one game. So then the next night, same thing. She was like, come on, try to stay awake. And I was like, okay, whatever. So I stayed awake and she was like, want to have a competition to see who can stay awake the latest. I was like, yeah, sure. Why not? Stayed awake for five days together. Five days. Five. Can I say, somebody got the movie rights to this.

36:56I will do a deal before this podcast is over. This is a movie, darling. Oh, stick with me here. Oh, it's a great one. It gets better. If you're thinking that's the movie, you're not even a good part of the story yet. Okay, keep going. So we stay awake for five days together. And in these five days, we do everything. I start to have the best cruise of my entire life. We're having fun. We're going to sushi making classes. We're going to paint classes and not following. we're just painting whatever we want we're laughing we're throwing pain at each other we're having a great time and this whole time she's my age she's a little younger than me I I knew I knew she was gay and I was only 16 she was only 15 and I said to her one day I said so when did you know you were gay and she said what and I said when did you know you were gay and she said oh I'm not I have a boyfriend and I said no you don't I said dude you're gay look at you and she was not great of me to say but she we were best friends at this point we've known each other three whole days and but we had a great banter and she was like no I'm not look this is my boyfriend and I was like dude you're so gay I was like go on call me in six months when you realize you're gay she was like I'm not gay that's crazy and she was like what about you are you gay and I was like no I was like I have this crush on this boy named Elliot Elliot and She was like, okay, cool.

38:19Anyways, I genuinely don't think she knows who I am, right? And as a kid, I had this really positive personality, especially online. You know what I mean? That was who I was. And really nice, really positive, positive, positive. Anyway, so we're fighting over this crane game. Fighting over this crane game. She's trying to get this toy out of it. I'm trying to get this toy out of it. Oh, this is one of these machines? Yes. And you have the handles, and you never win anything. It disappears down the chute just as you've got it up there. Exactly. But she finally grabs something, and it pulls up, and I shake the machine as vigorously as I can so it breaks and it drops it so she doesn't get the toy.

38:53And she stops and she looks at me and she says, aren't you supposed to be nice? And I looked at her and I said, oh, so you do know who I am. And she goes, yeah, of course I know who you are. Don't be an idiot. Everybody knows who you are, but that's not why I want to become friends with you. And I was like, huh, okay, interesting. And it was then I realized she was just being nice to me. so anyways we're awake for five days we're getting off the cruise ship now we're separating she lives in Florida I live in California we're on opposite ends of the country and I say let's speak every single day so we never forget each other and we will one day be reunited but let's speak every single day and so we made it a pact we said all right we're gonna speak every single day and we did she became my best friend six months later she calls me and she said I have to tell you something and I said okay what she said I think I think I'm bisexual I said no you're not I said baby you're gay I said call me call me when you realize you're gay and all good and she said okay so then six months later she became my first girlfriend and so a year after the cruise almost to the day yeah we met up for the first time I was going to Florida which is where she lived and we were able to see each other for the first time and we were really excited and when I saw her I now was 17 she now was 16 I did not realize my sexuality at the time and but she had she had fully come out then at that point to me.

40:14And she had said, look, I, you're, you might be right. I might only like girls. I was like, dude, yeah. And all good. And you might change your mind again one day, but like, I'm happy that you're, you know, realizing that it's okay, no matter what. Anyways, we saw each other and it was a very sweet puppy love at first sight. Yeah. That's, that's where, that's kind of where, I mean, that's where the story actually begins, but that's where the story ends of, you know, finding love. My first love was found by not looking for it at all. And how long were you together? We were together for nine months, and then we broke up for six, and then we were together for three, and then we broke up, and we're still actually homies.

40:56Kai is so supportive of me and my life and has been an incredible friend throughout, since 2019. I'm still thinking of that toy thing. Cause this is a, Oh yeah. In the movie, this is going to be a good feature because of dropping, you lose people and then you pick them up again. Yep. So she may be back in the story. And that moment when we had the connection of like, Oh, I do know who you are. No. Yeah. She definitely was meant to come in my life and she taught me so much about myself and she, she took me on a beautiful journey of discovering, you know, who I am and who I can be. And also that just, I, at the time, right.

41:32as you do for the first time when you're feeling love, you think, oh my God, this is love, right? This is the one. And now looking back at it, I can reflect a little bit and say, that was the cutest puppy love I've ever seen in my life. And did your parents have any views about this? Oh, they loved. They loved. Yeah, absolutely. They were very supportive. They were very supportive. I think as parents, they could see that it was puppy love, but they wanted me to be convinced as well that it was really, really real. And to an extent, it was real. You know what I mean? Obviously, now I... Well, now we have Chris.

42:08It's more like Wolfhound love now, isn't it? Now I'm happy that, yeah. Yes, correct. So, but that's nice because you are... It's a beautiful journey. I think the point we're making to move on from the press cuttings, which have all this, you know, I'm now coming out, this is years ago, I'm now queer, I'm now lesbian, I'm now LGBT. Actually, what you're now saying is I am me. I am Jojo. and that and if the right person comes along that's that's exactly what i said um the word serendipity is christopher and i's favorite word now if you read the definition of it it's essentially finding love when you're least looking for it and it's um yeah it's it's it's beautiful i don't know how the universe did align for chris to come in my life uh but i've what what was it that what was what's special about him of what's not what's what's not absolutely absolutely everything as he is what was the initial thing that made you think honestly it's really it's really interesting with christopher because people got to see our first 20 days knowing each other they got to see every second essentially on a on a live stream like that you've not met him before you did i'd never met him before no never met him i i knew of him i'd heard of his name but i never watched his shows i didn't know much about him but um yeah i when he first walked in i he was the only person that i like knew what they looked like before coming into the show or into the house and so i knew that i was like oh that's the chris guy and yeah initially the first thing that i took in about him was he was a good hugger i liked his hug like that felt like a nice embrace and he smelled good i was like okay cool these are lessons like he seems cool i hope people are learning these lessons a good hug and the right smell the right sniff no and then um yeah honestly we just kind of bonded right away and it started very much so as friends like that's and i think that i i wasn't i wasn't looking to fall for him he wasn't looking to fall for me we just were having so much fun together we were having a laugh together um whenever one of us was down it was the other one of us that helped you know what I mean there was a day obviously everybody got to see when he was really there for me uh in the beginning and then there was a day it was actually Easter and he was having a really really rough day really rough day and he was he was in the diary room for a really long time and while he was in there I was freaking out because I was like something's wrong something's wrong and everyone was like calm down like he'll be fine and I was like no something's wrong and he came out of the diary room and he was like yeah no I'm good I had a stomach ache you know they gave me some stuff and I looked at him and I was like you're not good and so I just gave him a hug and it's there's this beautiful shot of us where I'm giving him a hug and he's cuddled in and um then I was just like let's just let's just go outside we had a talk and he really opened up and he wasn't okay he really wasn't okay but we were able to be there for each other in that moment I was able to be there for him and then we just yeah we had more fun than I've ever had in my life I had with him in that house and then leaving the house, you know, you're in this bubble of big brother, right?

45:15It's, it's, it's, it's a bubble. And so leaving the house, I wasn't sure what was going to happen. I didn't know where anything, I didn't, I didn't know anything, but I knew I had these, all these realizations in my life that things that I wasn't happy and things that I was being okay with that I should never have been okay with. And, you know, I, I'm, I'm not happy. And so I need to handle things. And I did very quickly once I got out of the house and then over a little bit of time I realized that I started to feel something for Christopher that I never intended to but I couldn't not feel and I am a very very lucky girl because he was feeling the same thing and uh it's so it's it's crazy enough we were watching uh god I can't think of who wants to be a millionaire that's not the show Yeah.

46:03That is the show. Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Yes. Why did I feel like it was called something else? I don't know. We were watching. That is a show called Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, great. So we're watching Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Presented by a fat old man. Love. Love him. Yeah, Jeremy Clarkson. I'm calling that because I know him. The answer, we were chilling and we were watching it, and the answer to the winning question was serendipity. And somebody replied and said, do you know what serendipity is? It's literally you and JoJo. and we googled it and both of us freaked out because we were like that's crazy that that was the million dollar question answer and that is exactly what we that's that's the we've really struggled to explain it and you know the origin of the word serendipity no do you because i do and i'm going to in my movie i'm going to send you and chris this could be the final shot of the movie you're going to go to salon sri lanka it was originally called serendip and because it It was come across by chance, and it's off the coast of India.

47:02It's the most beautiful island, Sri Lanka, where the people are very beautiful, and everything about it is beautiful. Wait. And it was called Serendip. This is a place. This is a real place, a real place on earth. We're trying to plan a holiday right now. Well, you must go. We have to go there. You do have to go there. Yeah. And it was called Serendip. And when it was found by chance, the most beautiful place in the world was found quite by chance. Yeah. And it was called Serendip. and that gave rise to the word serendipity. We cannot decide. You're on your way to serendip. We cannot decide where to go right now and I think now, I think we just decided.

47:47Just two or three quick questions before I lose you and send you and Chris off to serendip in your happy future. We have a number of people in common. One of the people we have in common is Kim Kardashian. Yes. Because she wears my sweaters. Love her. And you've done babysitting for her. I did. I did a little babysitting North West. How did that, I mean, of course, being in show business from the age of nine and then having gone viral and being this big, you know, since boomerang all over the world, you've met lots of extraordinary people. Yeah. What were you doing for Kim Kardashian? How did that happen?

48:18Her daughter, North West, was a big fan at the time. She was little. She was only five. I think I said, like, if North ever wanted to be in a video, like, I would love to have her. like I do these babysitting videos I normally do with youtuber kids but like I could do it for fun with Laura that'd be a blast super easy she wouldn't even know that we're filming like it'll just be a fun hangout um let me know if you'd ever be down and she was like oh my god I would love to could we film it for my show and I was like your show keeping up with the Kardashians yes sure uh and yeah just just so so calm so sweet so down to earth so nice good good people of all the interesting people you've met, who would you say is the most remarkable or the most memorable?

48:57Elton John. Ah. Yeah, without a doubt. Well, you can see Elton John. I won't give away where Chris lives. Yeah. But he lives very near where Elton John lives. All right. So let's see if we can set that up as well. All right. We're going to need some music for the movie. That is true. What do you think? That is true. Would you like it? Do you write your own songs? I used to. I used to write a lot and I used to enjoy it a lot. And then I stopped because I didn't want to, I didn't want to anymore. I got intimidated by it. And then, but recently I've, I have a really, a beautiful friend of my life.

49:30I actually have a letter that they drew tattoo on me. They made this Y and they. What does your father think about these tattoos? He doesn't mind them. He likes them. They all have. Has your father gotten any tattoos? No, he doesn't. No, exactly. But they, they all have a meaning to me. Oh, so they. Share them quickly. Quick share them. Oh my God, I've got a lot of them. I have a lot of them. Trust the wind. We'll start on this one. Trust the wind is a saying. I love to indoor skydive. It's my favorite thing in the world. Trust the wind. Yeah, and so I say trust the wind. And that essentially, when you're indoor skydiving and you do tricks and stuff, it's sometimes very scary to trust the wind.

50:05But every time you trust the wind, it'll always work perfectly. And so I always say trust the wind in life. This is very good advice. My two on my hands are my old logo and the date that my first song, Boomerang, came out and my new logo and the date that my new song Karma came out. My Karma Beast dies. That changed my life. The number 417 with a billion under it because Boomerang was the 417th video to hit a billion views. Honestly, the tattoo artist that did this Trust the Wind one wanted to tattoo CEO of Gay Pop on me and I was like, honestly, go for it. It's a hilarious joke that the internet started and I was like, all right, I'll follow it.

50:40This one is actually the only one that I don't like. I don't like this one. I want to get it removed. It's quite complicated. I know a man in Germany who can do it for you. Yeah, it's quite big. What is it? It's a teddy bear wearing glasses with angel wings and a construction vest. It has a lot of meaning to it. It's from one of my songs. Oh, well. So it does count. Has Chris made his mark yet on where's his tattoo going to go? Where's his tattoo going? I want Chris to last for a lifetime. So he, until, yeah, we... You don't need to do it yet. Not yet. You don't need to rush in the ring. Not yet.

51:16He gets a bracelet and a necklace for right now. That's fine. He can have a bracelet and a necklace. The Chris tattoo, I said in Big Brother that I would get this bamboo stick. So this is his ring. And I put it on early on in the Big Brother house. And, yeah, it's all these little bamboo sticks. And I said that I would get a little bamboo stick tattooed from this. and I want to get two other tattoos from the Big Brother house of memories that I have from in there, but I would get that because as much as that relates to Chris, it also is, I can deem it not bad luck by placing it more on Big Brother.

51:55Your parents have been married for 25 years and they made it work for a quarter of a century. Yeah. I can see you live in the moment and you and Chris, it's very exciting and you are living the tingles up your spine and it's fantastic. Of course. It's beautiful. What have they done to make that last 25 years that you would like to do with Chris to make it last 25 years? Are there things that you can do in your day-to-day life? Do you think what you've seen of the world? They don't complicate things. My parents definitely don't complicate things. I think my dad does a really spectacular job at that.

52:36I think they both just understand one another and I truly think and like whoever this may be in my life obviously we all know who I hope it would be if you are meant to be you will be you know what I mean I think that life is gonna life and things are gonna be hard always things are gonna be easy always but if you are with the right person you will get through the hard and if you're not with the right person you won't get through the hard yeah I think as humans you just have to choose to be happy in the most situations that you can and I think that's what my parents said a good example of just choose to be happy lovely message, joy one word to you, joy what comes instantly into your head, in your life your 22 years, joy what's the moment that simply comes into your head recollection of joy can I be really honest when you say that right now, being in the hot to have the last night on Big Brother it wasn't the last night it was the when the finalists were announced i've asked that question to some of the most famous people in the world you know oscar winners nobel laureates nobody has said being in the hot tub on the light before last on big brother if i thought about my answer for a little bit longer i would say being in the indoor skydiving tunnel if i thought about the answer deep i would say having children one day and if i thought about the answer with my heart I would say just spending time with my favorite person so if I if I think about the answer I would give it but in that exact moment the spark I can picture us all splashing around making jokes now more difficult sadness in your life a moment of sadness what makes me sad or a moment a moment a recollection a memory of sadness that comes bubbling into your head as I said oh gosh

54:35leaving England when I left a month ago. It would have been a month ago today. No, a month ago, the 28th, a couple of days ago. Um, I was really sad that day cause I not only had to say goodbye to everybody, but I was saying goodbye to the phase of life that was big brother. And, um, I was really, I was really sad. And honestly, when I got home, it took me maybe three or four weeks to get over this ad. It was really hard. You don't look to me like somebody who cries. Do you cry much? Yeah. Oh, you do. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I cry. The last time I cried, it's actually kind of a cute story. Um, I know, I know we got to wrap up, but you'll, you'll like the story.

55:15I tend to do this thing where I always am happy in the moment, right? I'm always very happy. I'm always very positive. I'm always like, yeah, I'm having a good time. Then in about two weeks, I can reflect and look back at that and be like, ooh, actually, I wasn't happy there, but I was faking it well. You know what I mean? And I can admit that then. That's what I've done for practically 21 years, right? The other day, I was laying and I was watching a video, and it was of Chris and I from the beginning of Big Brother to when he picked me up at the airport the other day. And so this was very, this two, two, three days ago.

55:54And, uh, I started crying and I looked up at him and I was like, and he was like, well, are you okay? Like what's going on? And I was like, I was like, I am watching this video right now. And I'm realizing that. And I explained that the two week thing. And I said, but this has been the last six weeks. And I said, every single moment in this video, I'm a 10 out of 10 happy in every single one of these individual moments, looking back at them, you know, in the moment, obviously I'm happy. I always am. But looking back on them, I would not even be a nine out of 10 happy in each of these moments. I was a 10 out of 10 happy.

56:28And for me, that was super rare. That is super rare. But I feel that so much right now that everything I've done since entering the big brother house, I've been 10 out of 10 happy. And it's, it's, it's a surreal feeling because I haven't felt it since I've been 17 that was the last time that I felt that feeling of just being pure happy all the time I'm 10 out of 10 happy knowing you you're 10 out of 10 you're just 10 out of 10 Shirley Temple loved being a singer and a dancer and a child star and was world famous and I don't think she ever made it to the list of the 100 most influential people in the world in Time magazine which you've done.

57:09But she was happy when I knew her because she'd become the American ambassador to the United Nations. Wow. She became an international figure as Shirley Temple Black. She used her married name. 25 years from now, will you still be singing and dancing? Or will you, do you think, might be doing something else? Do you know what the future holds? Well, 25 years from now, oh my God. First thing that my brain thinks of is 25 years from now, I want to have a 20-year-old. I want to have a baby. I hope I'm still singing and dancing. I love singing. I love performing. Let's say I'll be 47, so I'll be creeping up on my 50s.

57:47Yeah, I would love to be still going. Good. Singing, dancing. What's your current thing that we must sell? My current thing? I just released a new song called Bulletproof. Bulletproof. And so I would say Bulletproof. Go straight with it. Bulletproof. Bulletproof. We all want Bulletproof. We all want you. Your last statement is this. Have you had your 22nd birthday yet? Yes. Good. When was it? Not long ago. It was May 19th, just 10 days ago. Happy birthday. Thank you. Happy 22-year-old. Thank you. We've had centenarians, people who are 100 years old on this podcast. You are the youngest person to date we've had on the podcast.

58:25I'll take it. I'm honored. And we're honored that you've only done one podcast while you're here and that it's our podcast. That's wonderful. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, I always ask people what they've learned. What's the lesson they have learned in their life? So in your 22 years, what do you think you've learned? That you're always faced with a choice. And that choice is the positive or the negative. And in every single situation, even if you can't see it initially, every single situation there is a positive. sometimes you have to look for it sometimes you have to make it up sometimes you have to fake it but once you can find that positive if you can hold on to it find a smile in every day find a smile in every situation even in the absolute worst worst worst situation and so even if you're having a horrible day and you know you wake up and you have to go to work super early and it's a 12-hour work day you missed your lunch break and it's just miserable what is the positive in that day?

59:31What is it? Easy answer. You woke up easy answer, but there is maybe you had a good cup of tea. Maybe you had a laugh with a friend. Maybe you, you know, are constipated and it's funny to you. I don't know whatever the positive may be, but yeah, there's always a positive. So look for that. This is so good. You're constipated and it's funny to you. Yeah. This movie of ours, it's going to be the best. Come on. You've been constipated before. Nobody's constipated and doesn't laugh about it. Well, this is brilliant. I mean, this is quite fantastic. Maybe the movie's called Consistently Constipated.

1:00:06No, the movie's going to be called Selendipity. It's going to be the most successful feel-good movie since Paddington 2. It is going to end with you and Sri Lanka. It's got everything in it. You write movies. Well, I have to tell you, I've had five of my novels and stories optioned for movies. not one of them has been made yet this is my breakout moment Jojo well there's a story actually as soon as we touch as soon as we turn these microphones off that I want to tell you because it's actually a conversation right now that I would be open to having with you as well good well there we are so you've seen the podcast wait for the movie I hope you have a very happy life you've given me a very happy day Jojo Seymour back at you thank you that was Jojo Siwa I think the youngest guest we have yet had on Rosebud we've had a centenarian people in their 80s, 90s, 70s, 60s, 50s, 40s, 30s but Jojo is our first 22 year old if you think we should have more young people and exploring their childhood and early memories do let us know who you think we should be asking I certainly love the idea of talking to some more child stars we must have an extended conversation one day with my friend Hayley Mills, and perhaps with her sister Juliet Mills, and certainly with my other friend, another great child star, Bonnie Langford.

1:01:34Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Rosebud with Jojo. It was a bit different. If you did enjoy it, let us know. And you can do that by giving us an email. It's hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Or you can leave a message for us, a review. We love a good review. We can cope with a review that isn't a good review. But just let us know what you're thinking, because this podcast is for you. And I found this episode very enjoyable. And I'm now going to, you see, she's got a new single out. She told us about it, Bulletproof. My problem is, I don't know how you get, I mean, in the old days, you would go into a record store.

1:02:15I remember going to HMV in Oxford Street in London, and you went into a booth and and you put on headphones, and you played the record to yourself. Now I suppose you press a few buttons and sort of pay on PayPal. I don't quite know how it works. But anyway, I'm looking forward to hearing Bulletproof, and I hope you enjoyed listening to Jojo Siwa. Before we go, I wonder if we've got time for an email. We've heard from Mark Linderson. Giles, here's a little story of my first kiss. So, we sit on the headstone in St John's Churchyard, Pendlebury. Hands in laps. We are leaving junior school age, about 11 years old.

1:02:54It's around 1980. I sit centrally on the headstone, and Susan sits close to me, slightly shyly to my left. You can kiss me now, she says, her eyes sparkling. She's actually quite shy and polite, and only on the very last day of school did I manage to communicate my liking for her. And here we are, about to kiss. She has, however, a caveat But only if you kiss Isabel too I turn to my right, where Isabel is sitting The naive innocence of it all reflected in her face Clearly they've worked this out And not wanting to seem impolite, I agree Okay, I say I then turn to Susan And we kiss on the lips I turn, and with the sun shining down on us I kiss Isabel on the lips too before getting up and carrying on our day slipping through the gravestones.

1:03:52P.S. I've just realised I have a memory of a first kiss earlier at infant school. Myself and Julie. Or was it Heather? A peck underneath a see-through umbrella age about five. Clearly I was a bit of a floozy. Wow. That's quite an email to end on, isn't it? If you've got a recollection of your first kiss or kisses, if you can beat Mark and there were three girls lined up when you were about 11 years old waiting for you, or if you've got a recollection that takes you before the age of five and that peck with Heather, or was it Julie? I mean, the cheek of it, boasting about these early kisses, not remembering the girl's name.

1:04:36He was a floozy. Do let us know. Thank you very much, Mark. It's simply hello at rosebudpodcast.com. hello at rosebudpodcast.com. We love to hear about it. If you have tales of your first kiss or anything else you want to share with Rosebud, we're here. Thanks for listening. Bye now.

1:05:39Rosebud is a Plain Jane production produced by Harriet Jane, hosted by me, Giles Brandreth, with music by Phil Leppard and recorded this week at the JW Marriott Grosvenor House in London's Park Lane. Room service.