More Rosebud 3rd birthday "treat repeat" special - Terry Pendry, Queen Elizabeth II's groom

0:04Music

0:20My name is Charles Brandreth and I'm here this Tuesday morning with my friend, my colleague, the producer of Rosebud, who is Harriet Jane. Yes. Here we both are. In real time, this is Tuesday, the 1st of September, 2026. The 1st of September has always been a special day in my life since I was a little boy because it is the Feast of... St Giles. Yes. Giles has got his own feast, everybody. Have you got your own feast? Do you need to get one? Well, if you have a name that is a Christian name, you almost certainly will have a feast day, because every day of the year in the sort of calendar of saints is a feast day.

1:02And I hope you're celebrating yours, everybody. Well, if you're called Giles, I hope you're celebrating it today. Yeah, what do you do? St. Giles is a patron saint of all sorts of interesting things, including, I think, beggars and prostitutes. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, very cool. or anyone who listens to the diary episodes will know that as a child, I went on holiday to France most summers, from the age of about seven to the age of about 18, when I went away to university. And I was on my own, usually staying with a family, later on staying in different kinds of hostel. But when I was with a family, they were always Catholic families, and feast days for them counted for a great deal.

1:41So when we got to the 1st of September, it was always marked. and we'd probably go to church and then there would be literally a feast which would include a cake in my honour for Giles on the feast of St Giles. And I do remember the year in which the cake was so rich and sweet and I think it may have had almonds in it which I don't really like but I felt obliged to eat a slice of it. Oh, deary me. So it's one of the things that haunts me still. So St Giles' day has always been important to me for that reason, because it is the Feast of St. Giles. But for the last three years, this day has been special to me because it is the day on which we launched the Rosebud podcast.

2:25So if you've been listening from the beginning, we've been doing this for three years. Today is our third birthday. Yeah, happy birthday, Giles. Happy birthday, Harriet. Happy birthday. And if there are people here listening who've been listening since the beginning, thank you so much for being with us. it's been fantastic the way we've survived we've done three years a couple of episodes i think every week some weeks more than that um and i think we've had fun yes it's been brilliant amazing that everyone's listened for three years it is it's fantastic thank you thank you thank you we have millions of listeners around the world and i wanted today to celebrate harriet by playing well first my first thought was oh should we have edited highlights golden moments nuggets from the last three years.

3:12And you said, no, because the point of Rosebud is we're not looking for sort of nuggets. We're not looking for quotations. The point of Rosebud is it is a long conversation. You get to know people better listening to them at length. So I thought, well, OK, shall we replay a favourite episode? And then I thought, what is my favourite episode? Because I've loved them all in different ways. What for you, Harriet, have been memorable episodes of Rosebud? Oh, I mean, it's so hard to choose, isn't it? We were just talking about this and we really couldn't pick. But I'm going to just say six or seven that stand out to me.

3:53But it could change tomorrow. So this is just what I'm saying today. And like a big family, I don't have favourites. and genuinely I think almost every episode when I sit and edit it I think what an incredible interesting moving funny conversation you know I just so rarely has there been an episode that I've not thought was fabulous and we learn so much and we're so grateful to our guests for sharing the amount that they do and I mean genuinely that there's just they're they're brilliant and I'm privileged to listen to them sometimes four or five or six times because when you edit something you listen to it a lot but these are just some that stand out to me that I particularly enjoyed when I was just looking back through the list Sue Pollard hilarious what a delightful person I knew she was a delightful person I'd always loved her but just you know as with everybody so much more depth and complexity and interest and subtlety and I just found that so fun and she'd been someone that I'd loved since I was a child so I was thrilled to bits to meet her in that way and what a delightful person just so so charming um another episode which I love and I know you love Giles because also it was a special day out for us was when we went to Sissinghurst and we actually sat in Sissinghurst which was a treat in this very sort of tumble down kitchen that had no frills and felt really old-fashioned and nice with Adam Nicholson who is a scion of that family grandson of Vita Sackville West yeah and so we were in his family home and his gorgeous and talented wife who is a bit of a hero of mine, Sarah Raven, who's a gardener, and I'm into gardening.

5:55So that was a real treat and such a nice episode. You want to hear a couple and a couple of very interesting, intelligent people, Sarah Raven and Adam Nicholson at Sissinghurst. Then I was looking through the list and I was remembering Timothy Spall. Oh, I'd forgotten that. He was one of the The best, the film star, wonderful actor. We were lucky to have him, Giles. Grief. Because he's not somebody that is interviewed a lot. Is doing this all the time now. And he came especially for Rosebud, and he wasn't publicising anything. And he'd had a very interesting childhood, working class childhood, and just a lovely and really deep and interesting and true person.

6:39And I really, really was honoured to meet him. And a great actor. I want to listen to that one again. Oh, so interesting. Because we've been very blessed with sort of film stars, like Hugh Bonneville, Gary Oldman, but Timothy Spall is a really intriguing figure, isn't he? Yeah, and a great actor, and something that I think people like that, I feel like they only exist in Britain, you know, he's just a wonderful guy. I'm going to do a mention for someone that we just, we mentioned in passing the other day, and I thought, oh, we don't give enough to this episode, but we were lucky that we had him and it was so good.

7:12John Cleese we often mention Michael Palin which was a brilliant one but John Cleese was a brilliant one too John Cleese was fascinating and he'd had a bit of a rough ride on social media yeah he gets a bit of a bad press doesn't he I think that's changing curiously I mean he is he's an iconic figure yeah comedy in our time John Cleese back from Monty Python through Fawlty Towers through to what he does I mean and it's a funny episode of Rosebud because he tells us really funny stories. Funny stories. And we got on with him terribly well. He was hugely tall, wasn't he? Yeah, oh yeah. But I loved that.

7:48And then I really... Could we get Eric Eidel do you think? Oh, I think we're going to. Any living pythons, we should gather them into our net. Yeah, we're going to get Eric Eidel. And then the next year I'll just say really quickly loved Bjorn from ABBA. Thrilled to bits to meet him and get my photo with him. Loved Sandy Toksvig, another Scandinavian. Good grief. The people we have had on Rosebud. I know. In the last three years? Yeah. We've done hundreds of episodes, haven't we? She was so fun. Sandy talks. And then another great woman, Sue Perkins. Sue Perkins. A lovely and very, very, very interesting episode.

8:20Very good. People on my list, I have, well, it's so difficult, isn't it? I particularly have enjoyed Scions of Families. The grandchildren, for example, of Oscar Wilde and Winston Churchill. Oh. Merlin Holland and Nicola Soames. I love them. Rose Boyt. Do you remember her? Very good. Lucian Freud's daughter. One of the many. One of, but a complicated story, complicated relationship with her father. We've had some pain, and the pain isn't comfortable, but it's still fascinating. Charles Spencer, pain in his childhood. Such a good episode. Alan Davis, the QI comedian, pain, terrible pain in his childhood.

9:04I mean, they do make for fascinating listening. They really do. I mean, we are so lucky that people are so open about their childhoods. I mean, Ivor Mountbatten, again, the scion of an extraordinary family. Oh, that's a great one. So when they bring to it not just their story, but the baggage that comes with having the name that they have. Absolutely, yeah. And that's one of our top-watched episodes on YouTube. That's because we have a big following in America. Yeah. And he won American Traders, Celebrity Traders in America. But we have a very big American audience. And we've had some wonderful American guests.

9:40We're going to get more of those in the future. What a charming man. And I think we're going to be having later in the year, speaking of interesting families, one of the sons of Daphne du Maurier's family, her grandson, is going to be a guest. And we haven't yet had, have we, the grandson of Charlie Chaplin. No, he's coming up. These are the things that are coming up. I've loved the funny episodes. I loved Caitlin Moran, who was both funny. Caitlin. I loved Caitlin Moran. because she was just funny. Oh, and I adored Rachel Sterling. Oh, I know you did, Giles. Who was funny. Because that got a bit brooty.

10:14Giles loves that. Well, I love a bit of that. But also I love a laugh with heart, which the Reverend Richard Coles gave us. Oh, that's a good one. Lee Mack did us a real honour by coming on. I mean, because one of the joys of Rosebud is that people come on who you don't hear everywhere else. But he actually said to us, didn't he? I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this. He said to us, I don't really like to do podcasts. You know, he said, the problem is you talk, you say more than you're planning maybe because you get comfortable and then the papers pick up on things you said and suddenly before you know it.

10:51And so he, I think we were really lucky that he did it. I did feel that when we did the interview with Justin Welby, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, because we don't give things to the papers, they just listen. And they wrote up our conversation. and without really reporting on the totality of the conversation. But I found him really intriguing. Of course, I loved the other Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, who we had on. Oh, yes. A beautiful person and a poet, you know. We've had quite a few poets. I suppose that reflects my interest. Simon Armitage, Pam Ayres, Roger McGough. Oh, that's a great one.

11:25Oh, he's lovely. And somebody coming... Oh, I mean, we're just telling everyone all the episodes now, Giles. No, we're not. We're going to stop. Because this is meant to be a select few. This is a select few. 300 episodes we've had. No, this is a select few. What I wanted to say is the poets reflect my interest. We have not had enough sports people because I don't know enough about sport. No, I don't really. But do you not agree that the great West Indian cricketer... Sir Vivian Richards. Was. What a legend. It was a legend. And we're thrilled to have had him. I want to explain this. Can I just say about him?

12:02Yeah, do. I mean it is you know obviously we're really lucky because not only do we get to listen to these brilliant conversations but we actually meet these people and spend some time with them and for me that's a real honor because I mean Giles has met everyone as you all know but I haven't so it's really amazing and I still get starstruck and but so Vivian Richards was you know I'm not a cricket fan I'm a you know I'm a girl and I wasn't that interested in cricket I knew he was a big deal but you could just tell the moment he stepped out of his taxi you were in the presence of a great man I don't know there was this aura this bearing that he had this physical presence this elegance this charisma yeah riz and it was really striking and I loved meeting him.

12:56Yeah, what a dude. What a dude. Yeah. And I think I mentioned to you at the time I was privileged enough to be in the presence of Nelson Mandela once. Oh, wow, I bet that was amazing. And it was curiously comparable, which is odd. And what a courteous man. I re-met him a year or more after we'd done the podcast and he came straight up to me and talked immediately about Rosebud. Oh. Well, that is class, isn't it? I think it's a real sign how important manners are. It's easy to forget, isn't it? But he was someone with impeccable manners. So we're going to be, for the next three years, I hope, raising our game, broadening our interests.

13:36I never have thought of inviting Anna Lapwood, the wonderful organist from the Royal Albert Hall, but I learnt so much from her. The way it works, by the way, is that we come up with ideas, you and the listeners come up with ideas, and then we if we both agree we have to both agree on the guest because if we don't both agree i'm afraid they're not invited i say that because there are friends of mine who say to me jas it's your podcast you don't have anything you want i said no it's actually our podcast harriet and i agree on the guests together and um that's how we get more variety and that actually is how we work as a team so we we work in harness um so uh if it's just i mean i so what i'm really thing to my friends is you can't just ask me i can't deliver it for you it has to be a joint selection so we're hoping to broaden our interests thank you for introducing me to people you have introduced me to thank you harriet for the last three years and i want to thank everybody from tarik ali who i think brilliant alphabetically may be the first name in our list i don't know yeah he was fascinating fantastic through richard iuidi everybody actually who has been on rosebud in the last three years.

14:45Thank you. We couldn't decide what episode to play you today. So together, we made an executive decision. I think we made it jointly. We're in Edinburgh recording this for the 1st of September. Next week will mark the fourth anniversary of the passing of Elizabeth II, who died on the 8th of September 2022 in Scotland. And we enjoyed a remarkable episode. when we went to Windsor Castle to the home of Terry Pendry, who was her groom for, I think, about 28 years. And he remembered his time working with and for the Queen and becoming her friend, really. And I found it a very affecting and moving episode, very interesting as well.

15:33So it's a combination of, well, a witness to history telling us his story. It's funny, it's moving, it's special. it's just one of hundreds of episodes that harriet and i have brought to you over the last three years thank you so much for your company please stick with us as we go brightly into our fourth year it's been huge fun my special thanks to harriet for making it all possible but most of all to you for listening to rosebud so after the music it's going to be well rosebud with Terry Pendry remembering Elizabeth II on the fourth anniversary of her death. Cue the music.

16:30So what I'd like to begin with, Terry, is your first memory of meeting the Queen, the first encounter you Terry had with Elizabeth II when did you first remember seeing her meeting her the very first one actually before joining the household cavalry was going way back to 1971 when she came to do the Maundy service at Shooksbury Abbey that's when I first saw her Then I was driving a plant machine digger and I parked it up and got it out of my greasy overalls and went to the, I didn't dare go into Tewkesbury. You couldn't get in anyway. But I stood on the outside of Tewkesbury and I watched this huge car pass me and I bowed because I thought it was the right thing to do.

17:25The only thing I saw then was the back of a hat out of a glass window. that was the first encounter i ever saw of the queen which was way back in 1971 not realizing in 1974 i was about to join the household cavalry and from there on in i mean i was here on a regular basis the first time i i saw her i escorted her actually in 1974 down to the troop in the color when she rode burmese you say you were escorted you were on horseback too i was on horseback i I rode on Trooping of Colour. My first Trooping of Colour was in 1974 and have been riding on it ever since. I've done 49 years Trooping of the Colours.

18:06So I've probably ridden on more Troopings than anybody, probably including the Queen because she only did one a year. I used to have to do three. Major Generals, Colonel's Review, and then the real thing. So that was three in a year. so. And can you remember your first time of actually being face to face having a conversation with the Queen? Yep. Her Majesty visited the regiment actually at Knightsbridge and I was introduced to her in the riding school. Now what year was this? Oh God's truth 1974 is when I joined so we're getting towards the late 70s. The late 70s so the Queen then was in her 50s.

18:47Yep. You're in your 20s yes and uh what happens what does she look like radiant i mean i think that was the word radiant i mean she was radiant uh and look i was i don't know five foot eight that that day i felt about seven foot tall i mean that's kind of what she did to you um but just just to what and i just tried to be whatever the word normal means that's what i tried to be so you had the advantage of being somebody who was deeply into the world that she loved most because the remarkable thing about the queen i think the reason she lived so long and so happily was though she was driven by duty sustained by faith her religion was terribly important to her her passionate life were the dogs and the horses and you spoke that language you're very you're you're right on all on all those things uh and i could i could speak that language did she ever tell you about her early years riding yes she did she said and we said share all sorts of stories i remember being with her one day uh it was armistice day in frogmoor gardens it was unique and i said well mom you do realize it's armistice days yes yes but i do want to ride i'm coming down um and she said look we're going to frogmoor gardens and uh when it's approaching 11 o 'clock we'll stop and we'll observe the two minute silence and I said okay so we did we were in the garden on the lawn and we're overlooking the lake looking back at Frogmore house and she said just let me know when it's 11 I said so I said mom it's now 11 o 'clock and we sat in silence for two minutes and I told her actually two minutes was up we started to move off and she said I've just remembered two people in the irf one was a spitfire pilot that was found in the spitfire obviously in a skeleton form but they knew he was through the dog chains around his neck and the other one was a dear friend of my papa that went off on a bomber over germany and never came back now those are the sort of things that she used to share a wonderful wonderful moment it was such a surreal moment quite strange for you because you eventually as the groom you spent a lot of time just alone with the the pair of you on horseback going out riding absolutely i mean i i think over the years really we became very good friends i mean the two people that that worked for any length of time was uh roger oliver who was a great stud groom he he was with her majesty uh for some oh i think 25 years I did 28 and a half right through to the very end so I think you do build that relationship and trust so from that first encounter how did it develop into something more how you actually came to work personally for the Queen and to become the groom how did that happen?

21:52she actually asked me I'd done 16 and a half years in the household cavalry and I was approached then and I was asked would I consider being stud groom for Her Majesty the Queen. And I came and had an interview with Her Majesty. And what did she ask you at the interview? I mean, it's quite strange going for a job on the Queen's interview. It was just really a general chit-chat, really. But it was clear to her that you talked her language. I think that's right. I think they were sounding me out in hindsight. That's probably what they were doing. They were sounding me out. And did they tell you what the duties were?

22:26Were you clear what the duties were? Yes, yes. And what were the duties? Well, obviously running the Royal Muse, it was built by, this Muse here where it stabled 110 horses, it still stables 98 to this day. And so you were to manage that? You were to look after that was your job? Managed that, her personal private riding horses. And how did she choose those? Well, she bred them. She didn't choose them. She bred most of them. I would have to go, we would go to Hampton Court once a year, the Crown Aquary, whoever he was the other day. Her Majesty would arrive, the vet, and we'd grade the horses and ponies.

23:09What does that mean? Well, grade them and say, look, as a two-year-old, three-year-old, which one would be ready first to start? But to come to Windsor and that first bridle, that first saddle, the first person on their backs, getting them ready and saying what they would be good for. And what was she looking for? Oh, well, I mean, personally, she was fantastic just looking, whether it be a horse or a pony. I mean, the footfall of it, whether everything was in the right place, particularly her racehorses. She was so clever with her racehorses. she could listen to the footfall as to whether it was level not only was it level but she would look at the action of the horse as well whether it was rounded over at the knee or or whether it would extend itself and she would actually know then what whether it would be able to run on the hard the good the soft she was expert at it she was really really good did she know as much as you Did she know as much of me?

24:14That's not fair. Probably more. That's the right answer. Yeah, of course it is. I was never going to say anything different. Of course it is. Really, if she wasn't queen, she would have made a good farmer's wife. She would have made a brilliant racing trainer. She would have done. And she really cared from birth to death of her horses and her boners. I mean, I heard a story about her actually watching on video. Well, that's very true. Even here, they would wake her up in the night. Paul Wyborough did the page or whatever. She had a link with Sandringham where all the racehorses are bred. And they were on video.

24:55And if a mare was in fall and about to give birth, the phone would ring. And she would love to see the fall born. She's done that on numerous occasions. That's amazing. So this is Tall Paul, the famous page. Tall Paul. We'd go and wake her up and say, Your Majesty, we're about to give birth. There's not many people who walk into her majesty's bedroom and say, look, you know, do you want to see one of your mayors give him birth? But if anybody could, Paul could. So nearly 29 years working for the Queen. 28 and a half, and then she passed. 28 and a half years working for the Queen. In that time, so much to remember.

25:34Can you remember the most amusing day? the thing that makes you laugh when you think back and that made her laugh um there's been lots but she was a she was a brilliant mimic uh accents and things like that and clever she enjoyed a good joke she could tell a good joke um and dare i tell one of the jokes please uh well it was told to her actually at church at the actually at the royal chapel a really really good canon martin pole before he gave his sermon on the odd occasion would tell a joke but he and the queen actually i rode with her on a pony emma i was riding a little pony called dawn chorus uh and we actually just passed frogmore uh and came to an open field on the left where there was cows uh red sussex cattle and she said uh she just looked across at me and said mother superior she said she's dying i'm sorry what did you just say she said mother superior she's dying i said but mom i said uh excuse me but you're not catholic i know she said it's a joke she said mother superior is dying and she said all the nuns gathered around the bed and she said one nun said well we must offer mother superior fresh glass of water bearing of mine were riding and she's waving her hands at me so they duly did that and mother superior dismissed it and said take it away i don't want that so they went a little bit further and and and uh ah one nun said i know he said let's and the queen pointed into the field let's capture our very best cow and we'll milk her and our mother superior a fresh glass of milk bearing in mind her majesty and queen elizabeth drank fresh milk straight from the count unpasteurized oh really oh yes this is what the queen mother even the queen mom uh the queen used to tell me it was good enough for my mama it's good enough for me well i guess they built their antibodies up and the queen used to enjoy her soft cheese in those little muslin rags uh anyway getting back to the story they offered mother superior this fresh glass of milk uh and mother superior don't want it take it away so uh we rode on a little longer and and uh a very naughty nun uh said i know she let's let's put a real real good glug of whiskey in the milk see if that will work so they duly did that and with that mother superior drank the whole darn thing down in one and so we're both chuckling queen was chuckling as well so um anyway she said the inevitable happened two days later that uh mother superior is going to pass into the better world and all the nuns gathered around her bed and said do you have any final instructions or or requests um before you pass uh with that the rains on Emma started going up and down.

28:51The Queen is actually giggling because she knew the punchline. She said, yes, Mother Superior said, I just have one. She said, whatever you do, she said, do not sell that cow. Now the Queen told me that. That's the wicked sense of humour of our lovely, lovely Queen. And I think people didn't realise that. I remember years ago talking to the Queen about the Second World War, and she said coming here to Windsor at weekends were entertainers to entertain the royal family and the royal household and people like you, or the equivalent of you, in those days who lived on the estate. And her favourite was George Formby.

29:32And then I said, do you know his songs? She said, oh, I remember all his songs. I can still do them. And she picked up an imaginary banjo-lely and began singing. I mean it on the post. No. No, not that one. When I'm cleaning windows. when i'm cleaning window yeah did you ever and she did it was a perfect george formby yeah yeah and she said she got into impressions because there was somebody called florence desmond who was on the wireless in the 1930s and 40s who was an impressionist and she could clearly do regional accents yeah she could do people yes uh and did she ever do well obviously she did do impressions for you oh i don't know maybe she did not not to my face but uh who she could take off really really well she used to breed cows with a chap um in uh new zealand and uh his name was don ferguson uh and that that accent of the new zealand he would ring her up uh and and tell her majesty they'd won the county championship or whatever but but she used to do that to me on a regular basis she said uh tom ferguson rang me and he used to start off good evening your majesty don ferguson here and she'd do that just like that and it was don ferguson speaking she was very clever she was and she could do i think things as well as people i mean she could do concord coming into land when there was concord concord when we rode when i used to ride out she was still riding a lovely horse called sanction then the last horse that she ever rode before reverting to ponies.

31:05And Concord used to come over us about 12 minutes past 11. And she always used to say, that's the lady pilot. It used to dip its wing. But whether it was or whether it's not, but strangely enough, it didn't always dip a wing. The noise was unbelievably loud. uh and the queen thought on the odd occasion yes go on the wing would just flip that's the lady pilot oh music that's what she's waving and she and she the queen wave back at concord she'd wave at concord every time when i know she waved to con she was very proud of concord that's fantastic but she was fun the point is she was she was fun look i i i didn't really say it because she could just do it.

31:56She was more like my mum than anything else. I mean, she was very motherly and her whole family, an awe to watch her with her family, particularly up to Balmoral when we went to Balmoral. I mean, her grandchildren just doted on her, her own children. I mean, it was just magical to watch it. What is the saddest recollection, not for you personally, but the moment, because we'll come on to her passing in a minute but of all the years you worked for her but was there a dark time was ever a time where i was riding with her actually when she lost her dear mama queen elizabeth um we were riding across the middle of the estate and and and the um one of the detectives come running across the field uh jumped out of a car and he was waving his phone in the air so we stopped and uh she thought it was it was the doctor and she thought it was for her it was an appointment for her because she had made an appointment but then her face just dropped and i'd never seen that it just dropped and she's it's my mama i need to go and i said well do you want to get off here and go with him no no she'd we're right back to the castle i need to gather my thoughts um so i radioed through on my radio for my staff to get her mountain block to the castle rather than come back to the muse which we did manage to get her off her horse uh and she drove herself up to uh the royal lodge uh up the long walk and uh when she got there um queen lisbeth the queen mother had been made comfortable and she said to the queen that um you have a lunchtime engagement don't yes mummy but um i can cancel that no no she said off you go you're not required yet uh and she sent her back and her majesty did her her lunchtime engagement in frog wall gardens uh and then drove back up the long walk by that time uh they make made her her majesty queen of the queen mother more comfy and put her pearls and earrings and which she dearly loved on and Margaret Rose Queen's cousin sat one side of Queen Elizabeth Margaret Rhodes yes yeah she sat one side of the Queen mother and the Queen sat the other and she went to sleep simple as that she went to sleep and she just Queen just picked up her two corgis and bought them back to Windsor Castle they integrated with what was then a pack was I think the Queen still had six of her own then so it would went came to eight uh and and it that that was a sad day for the queen um but those two dogs that there was a room in the house where the queen i call it the house the castle where queen lisabeth used to stay when she came to stay and those two little dogs never went in that room ever again.

34:57Quite remarkable. But then we rode with her on the Monday. The Princess Royal was down just to give her support, but incredibly strong. The Queen, Elizabeth Queen, had a long and fulfilled life. Yeah, exactly. I mean, 100 years and more. Almost 102. Yeah. Amazing. So maybe that unpasteurized milk worked. she was always quite self-contained Elizabeth II wasn't she I remember hearing from people who were with her when she became queen when the late king George VI died and she came back from Kenya how calm and contained she was and how she didn't shed tears Duke of Edinburgh I remember saying to me I asked him if he'd seen the film The Queen with Helen Mirren he said why would I want to see that and he said and he got irritated he said apparently they have the queen crying in the film he said the queen doesn't cry and he wasn't saying it's a virtue not to cry or he said an actress would cry would assume the queen would cry but she didn't cry and she was very much a contained person wasn't she uh yeah i mean there was without a shadow of doubt i don't know whether it's a godly thing or not but there was an inner inner power uh you mentioned earlier her religion um that played an awful powerful part in her life and and yeah there was would you call it steely i'm not sure if you'd call it steely but there was an inner something in her without a shadow of doubt what about any time you embarrassed yourself did you ever get it wrong was there ever a moment that oh my goodness, I can't bear that moment to remember that, but you can remember it for us.

36:47Something where you got it slightly wrong. No, not actually with the Queen. With the Duke of Edinburgh at once, and he's famous for letting fly every now and then. I was out with her man. She's actually just coming back in. We have a tunnel when we come back out. out of the park to come down into the stables um i'd asked her majesty whether i could take the belly out of her pony in the winter what does that mean uh clipping when you when you take a a very low trace clip uh her pony emma in those days in the winter months would grow a very very thick coat uh and she could get a bit sweaty uh and it was an awful job trying to get her dry and keep her clean for grooming so I said look you know we're not going to show this pony anymore do you mind if I take her tummy out and a little bit of her neck which would help the groom no I don't mind she said so I duly did I did that and anyway a couple of days later we used to call him the old man the Duke of Edinburgh but we call him the old man he must have had a bad drive on his ponies and came up walking up through the corridor and we met right outside where my office is queen victoria's viewing gallery queen was on her pony i was on mine he said you've clipped that bloody pony and i said to him i said well that's blatantly obvious royal highness and the queen just looked at me uh and uh he said you should be put up against the wall and bloody well shot you don't clip native ponies I said your royal highness I said I'd rather you keep your cartridges for pheasants and partridges I said pendries are out of season Queen's eyes went as big as an owl as big as an owl you shouldn't have said that she said and she rode off and left me he went mental some of it was in German some of it was in Dutch some of it was in Greek some of it was in English but everyone was a swear word Oh my goodness.

39:01Everyone was a swear word. How you dared do that? Well, I did. I stood my ground and I took my punishment. Wow, that was. I thought he was going to pull me off a pony, but he didn't. Countess Mountbatten told me how she'd been in a car with the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh, and the Queen had asked the Duke of Edinburgh to go a bit more slowly, and he told her to shut up. And she was really nervous. and the Duke of Edinburgh said, one more squeak from you, and I'm turning you out. And they got to the end of the journey, and Countess Mountbatten said to the Queen, why did you let him talk to you like that?

39:42And the Queen said, because he meant it. He would have turned me out, and on the motorway. So he could be formidable, couldn't he? Do you know what it was like switching on and off a lightbulb? I think it's in all of them. All the children are a little bit the same. I mean, they can show their anger, and it's just letting off steam. Are they humans the same as you and I? That's what they are. But you know what? They don't bear grudges. They say what they say. They say what they mean. But then it's done. It's forgotten about. You get on with the rest of your life. I mean, I met with his royal liners the next day and it was perfectly okay.

40:20But I dared that day to stand my ground and I knew I should... It just slipped off my tongue. I assume you keep your carriages with heads and partridges. but uh but uh anyway he showed his displeasure he showed i can't repeat over the microphone some of the words and i'd probably best not to definitely best not to but it was a man's it was a man's telling off so how often did i deserved it too by the way i probably deserved oh do you think so but no but you'd got well i was rude i shouldn't have said i shouldn't have said what i said true but you'd get got the queen's permission to do the clipping the pony i'm not worried about but uh probably i shouldn't have been you shouldn't have answered back would i dare say i was arrogant to him or rude to him maybe i was so maybe i deserved it yeah exactly he certainly didn't really wasn't very fond of the corgis i do remember that i heard him say pretty harsh things about the corgis well that's fable known but i mean i i've actually been up that i again i call at the house, I've actually seen him sat with the Queen watching the television and I have actually seen him stroking corgis so I'm not sure how I know he would they'd say he'd kick them and say that bloody thing or whatever but I've actually seen him embracing them as well so I have seen him do it that's good, we like a first hand account

41:52take us now towards the end of the queen's life because for many people they don't remember her as we remember her because of our age when she was young and beautiful they think of her as an old lady and they picture her on those ponies towards the end of her life it was clearly important those was it daily rides she went on towards the end of her life um well we obviously well four years before she passed i mean i was uh 69 years old and and uh again riding past frogmore i it's it's of it's weird how how things happen when we rode past there and again she just looked across to me and she said i want you to promise me something and i said well okay what what what you want what you want she said i want you to promise me you'll never leave me for as long as I'm riding uh and I wow you know what's that all about uh uh so I said well I made light of it and I said well I am of retirement age your majesty and she just looked at me with uh that radiant smile that she had just straight in the eyes and she said guess what and I said what she said so am I um so I I caved in straight away and I said if that's what you want then of course i'll stay for as long as you you need me uh and about three weeks again after that uh riding along the same strip of road she said you know what you've done something for me and i said yes i i've made you the promise and i said we don't need to revisit it i said i'm a man of my word i know that she said but um i've done something for you and that's when she told me that she was going to make me a military knight what does that mean well uh to be a military knight uh you normally you have to be a commissioned officer uh military knights uh they have to go to church on a sunday every sunday and pray for what is the what we call the garter knights uh when the garter knights way back when would go off to fight the crusades they would always leave somebody to pray for their souls or whatever.

43:59So kind of that's what the military knights are. They were originally called the poor knights of Windsor, alms knights for want of another word, but it got resurrected. We're now called a military knight. So now you can stay here as a military knight? Well, I think in her wisdom, it was probably saying thank you to me for one, and then I promised her, I did promise her I would look after Emma for the rest of her life. And Emma, coincidentally, is the name of your daughter? No, no, it is my daughter, but Emma the pony. Exactly, no, I just, I thought, oh, what an interesting coincidence. Who chooses the names of the Queen's ponies and horses?

44:42Emma came with her name. I actually bought Emma her pony as a seven-year-old off a lovely man up in, that bop my chap fell actually called Tommy Capstick. I approached a lady by the name of Lizzie Bryant that used to show our ponies and said, look, I need to get the queen off a horse and get her lower to the ground as she's ageing and we don't need her to come off a horse. Otherwise, Pendry's name is going to be in the history books all for the wrong reason. She isn't going to bounce at that age. and Lizzie said I haven't got one but leave it with me I'll find you one and she did she found Emma but her full name is Colton Lima Emma Tommy had her sold to Holland and I said well I rang him and said look I said could I purchase the pony on behalf of the Queen and she said well if you do I said I could stop the purchase going through to Holland but I want paying him pound out so I said with the Queen's face on that's what I want i said tommy i'm really sorry i said the queen doesn't deal in cash i said but uh she has a bank called coots i said i'm she's good for it i can assure you she's good for it uh so anyway he gave in so i bought the pony as a seven-year-old and queen struck up a very good relationship with him and what does that mean a good relationship between the queen and the pony what was that well again but as i said she could have easily been a farmer's wife no no but i mean With the actual individual pony?

46:16What was it? Oh, with the pony, Queen was just a natural. Emma sort of had a sixth sense with her. Emma was just not only just a very comfortable riding pony, but she just had that wonderful, unique relationship with her. And it's a gift. Without a shadow of a doubt, it's a gift. And would she go out riding several days a week? As often as she could. Same time of day, usually? At the same time, you could set your clock on the Duke of Edinburgh, nine o 'clock in the morning, he was ramrod straight and he'd walk from a castle. It didn't matter if it was snowing, raining, gale, whatever. He was there on the dot every day.

46:57Majesty was slightly different. She could receive telephone calls, obviously affairs of state. The red boxes never stopped coming, of course. but if she rode and could ride the Queen's Page would let me know either the evening before her majesty would like to ride or they would ring me first thing in the morning when she woke up and went through for her breakfast and she would come down at 10.30 10.30 was her time to ride and she'd enjoy an hour and then she'd go around with her brown paper bag full of carrots after that round the stable and she'd give every horse in the yard a carrot i'm looking forward to doing that with you in a minute uh and you would be there waiting with the pony that she was going to ride on absolutely did you always ride on the same pony yourself no i'd swap and change around but uh she i always tried whatever the queen was riding uh emma or horses as it were in those days but uh we'd have it ready next to the mountain block um as she aged i used to have to once a put another step on it you know but she actually ended up being smaller than Queen Elizabeth I mean her last four years that she was quite poorly and I I think actually when she asked me never to leave her I think in hindsight and I I did say this to my wife Sue that I I think in hindsight that's when she they probably told her that she wasn't very well and then of course COVID hit so that was difficult and were you in a whatever they call the queen was in they put her in a bubble were you in a bubble with her I was what I call the outer bubble in a bubble was she was in her in a bubble but I used to ring her or she'd ring me quite often talking about horses race horses or whatever but I think she used to do that more out of boredom and obviously wanted and how the horses were down here and then obviously we'd talk about a racehorse she'd enjoy that uh and i said look you know you you need to get out and get some fresh air i said your seas up i mean no disrespects it that at the age you are uh um uh you know you've got to keep moving you must keep exercising and i said come down into frogmoor gardens as soon as you can as soon as they release you and you're out of the way of cameras there no one can see you and you can have a little bit of exercise on Emma just riding around the garden and that's what we did I used to sneak Emma down into Frogmore Gardens and she'd enjoy a ride in the garden and it was important to get some oxygen into her lungs and that she could enjoy, you know, just general way of life.

49:56She used to love the seasons, particularly the autumn. She used to love crunching through leaves, kicking leaves through with the horse's feet. She adored that. I don't know why, she just did. And the last time you remember going out riding with her, when was that? Riding her, the very last time with her, it wasn't a ride. I walked. There was two times there. The very last day that she rode was the 18th of July. She rode on the 16th in the riding school. She was very quite frail. I mean, she could go up on the mountain block and step onto Emma, but I always used to have to lift her off.

50:41That's a great age. She was then 96. I mean well and I'll tell you this little story at her very last riding day was the 18th of July she got on to Emma and again I walked I was on my feet uh walking around with her and she she looked down to me this this hasn't happened to me since I was a princess I said what I said someone walking alongside me like this and I said well if you want me to step away I'll step away or I'll go and get another pony. I'll ride with you. No, no, she just walked with me. And I said, well, let me take a picture of you. She said, what do you want to do that for? I said, well, you'd like one for your scrapbook.

51:21I said, your pony's 26, you're 96. That has to be a record. I suppose you're right. And I took it up that evening and she would paste it. She had a little glue stick and she would just paste it in her little scrapbook and write a sentence underneath. she drove down on the 19th in her car, not to ride. But I didn't even know she was coming. I didn't think she was coming. I'd already said my goodbyes to her on the 18th and said, enjoy Balmoral. And I said, I wish I was coming, but you're not going to ride, so it's no point in me coming. She said, well, if you'd like to come, you can come. And I said, no, it would be wrong of me because I would only be taking the accommodation of somebody that was working.

52:11And I said, that wouldn't be fair. What she was really thinking, well, she's going to dip out on her wild raspberry jam because Sue, my wife, made her wild raspberry jam while we were up there. She adored it. None of the adults were allowed it, but the grandchildren and the great-grandchildren were allowed a spoonful, but no one else. She said, that's mine. She loved anything natural. but on the last day she I took the picture up to her and gifted it to her and she drove down the very next day and she just came down for a chat and a final goodbye to Emma whether she was kind of thinking about things I don't know I truly don't but she just looked at me and said you were very rude to me yesterday I said your majesty I'm awfully sorry but what you mean rude is you were very rude to me yesterday and I said well if I was I apologized profusely I said it wouldn't have been intentional and I apologized was it something I said yes she said it was I said well what was it she said you said my age and then she burst into fits of laughter fits of laughter that was just her that was just her so that's your last memory of being with her.

53:32Last time I ever saw her. And when did you hear, you obviously weren't totally surprised when you heard the news. No, I kind of knew. Look, when I used to lift her off a pony, she was getting lighter and lighter and frailer and frailer. I mean, I had an inkling that that was probably the last time I was going to see her. And on the 8th of September, when you heard the news, somebody obviously phoned you or you heard it on the... Crown Eckery rang me to say that her majesty had taken a term for the worst and I already had a sixth sense that things weren't right. And what then was your reflection on the 28 and a half years so close to her?

54:15What a privilege. What a privilege it's been to have served such a wonderful, wonderful lady. Can we just hold it there? Yeah, sure. I want to read something, if that's okay. Is that okay? Of course it is. It's lovely. it's something i do in my talk okay i'm ready yeah i suppose to the most remarkable lady in the world who was never supposed to be our queen she served with such grace and dignity she was not just queen of our country queen of the commonwealth but probably queen of the world for me personally it was my humble duty my honor my privilege to have served a most remarkable lady in the world for two-thirds of my life 28 and a half years direct I would do it all over again in a heartbeat every medal I have on my chest I would throw away give him away just have one more day with her i i've just been honored and privileged uh just just truly truly a remarkable woman it's beautiful before we stop and go for our little walk how did you come to be involved so intimately in the in the funeral the funeral procession back here how did that happen whose idea was that uh my own um i was actually uh invited to go to a majesty's funeral at westminster and i said well and sue no no no just you uh and i said uh i said no sue and i were a team i said uh um we've been a team we'll always will be a team i said uh no i'll be here for when she comes home for the committal.

56:08Always knowing that what I was going to do, we'd already done the same sort of thing for, again, I'm going to call him the old man, the Duke of Edinburgh. They'd put his carriage up there and his sugar lumps and his gloves on the box seat, which was very poignant. No one realised what was in there, but he always gave his pony sugar lumps. So as regards Emma and myself, I didn't dare tell anybody because they'd maybe tried to stop me doing it and I wasn't going to have any of that. So I took it upon myself to, I went to Angela Kelly and said, I need one of the Queen's scarves and she didn't want me to have it.

56:59This was the Queen's dresser. Angela, yeah, yeah, yeah. she thought, well, no, you can't, you can't, you mustn't. I said, well, I'm going to and I will. And she said, you have to give me one of her headscarves. I want to put it on the queen sheepskin. I need to pay my last respects with Emma. Anyway, she caved in and she gave me the Hermes scarf that she, it was one of her favourites.

57:30And that's what I did. And it was such a real, I mean, I think there was about 100 ,000 people down that long walk. And all you could hear was like just whispers. It was unbelievable. And it was simply your idea. You decided. My own idea. I didn't dare tell anybody. You took just Emma. You thought, I'll take Emma. I was always invited, both Sue and I, to the committal service. I had to work out how I could once Her Majesty's coffin had passed me how I was going to get hand Emma over and get round the moat garden to the castle to the chapel before she did anyway it was our last race if you like but anyway I managed to get there in good time and be there for the Queen's committal service.

58:32Because those of us who were watching it, we almost felt that Emma knew the moment, knew what was happening. You obviously got her to bow her head at the appropriate moment. It's almost as if we both knew. And again, whether, call it faith, what, I don't know. But I don't know, animals. Animals, it was a bit like Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother, when the Queen picked her dogs up. Never going back into that room ever again. Whether, I don't know, it's such a surreal, surreal moment. Whether she had an inner sense, I don't know. I don't know. I'm actually taking Emma up to the guards' polo on the 8th.

59:14It's a major general's cup final, but it just happens to be the same day of the Queen's death. so I'm actually going to take Emma up for the second anniversary. Well, you're going to take us to meet Emma now, which is exciting. Yeah, we would do that. And the new King's Charger. Yeah, noble. Yeah, noble is lovely, man.

59:42We're going outside. Oh, it is raining today at Windsor. We're leaving that lovely house full of memorabilia. every wall is packed with pictures of the Queen many of them with Terry and we're coming up the stairs out into the Royal Meuse and we're going to go and find Emma not Terry's daughter Emma the Queen's pony. We're going through now this is the Royal Riding School? Oh my oh this is huge! Oh! Oh my goodness! so what would happen in here? this is the place that the Queen rode for the last time I took a picture of her underneath the Union flag there that was my old office Queen Victoria's viewing gallery and that Queen Victoria used to sit up there as she aged and couldn't ride anymore slide the window up and she could talk to everybody that was in here there's a busk of a horse up there called Hammond to the live horse.

1:00:47That was one of her favourite riding horses, Queen Victoria. Given to her by the King of Prussia. Died when it was 27 years old. So our Queen's love of horses really was inherited from Queen Victoria. I didn't realise Queen Victoria was so enthusiastic. All the way through the royals. I mean, the Victorians didn't have cars, did they? Everything was done by carriage and riding. But Albert and Victoria rode an awful lot. They've ridden in here. Queen Victoria also on one of her Jubilees. William Cody, Buffalo Bill. Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley and the Deadworth Stage. They brought it through that door here.

1:01:28They stayed in Earl's Court in London for six months with a Wild West show. And they came down and did a production of it in here. And Annie Oakley, I've looked everywhere for bullets and I can't see anywhere Annie Oakley firing her guns. There must have been blanks. Have you been Victoria watching? In that window up there, there was more heads of state up in that room, royal family looking down on the actual show itself. Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley. We're treading in the footsteps of Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley. I love it. You certainly are. But the 18th of July, your last time with her on the horse, was in here, was it?

1:02:11right underneath that union flag there opposite the mirror yeah yeah because she was so frail you couldn't really go out i couldn't really go outside with two days on the 16th of july and the last riding day in here just walking around i was on my feet just walking alongside her and emma yeah there you go wow wow what memories

1:02:39so where are we now? this is the middle court this is her majesty's where she kept all her horses and ponies this is her mountain block one, two, three, four, five, six steps it started off as just four and I kept adding on and adding on but this is where she the last day she got on Emma was up there if you go up there and stand on it she could just slip straight on to Emma. Oh, bless her. And then I used to have to lift her off. Yeah, help her off. Bless her. We're going, oh, now here we go. This, we're coming into the stable now. Oh, look, Jubilee 2012. Oh, look, this is noble. Noble. Noble is very, very precious.

1:03:23This is the first horse gifted to His Majesty the King. She's now an eight-year-old. she was seven when she came from Canada. All our chargers are black, predominantly black. What does it mean being a charger? For a troop in the colour and the like. When you see any member of the royal family on troop in the colour, they're sat on their, what we call their chargers. And the king was gifted this. This is the first horse gifted to him. Obviously, all the other chargers were gifted to Her Majesty the Queen. And there's a tradition that's from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Canadian Mounted Police.

1:04:00Ever since Burmese 1969, we've always had Canadian charges since then. Predominantly black. They breed black. They're Hanoverian cross thoroughbred. Predominantly Hanoverian, but black. Now, she is a beautiful animal. This is clearly a really beautiful animal. But, yeah, she's a beautiful horse. She could be as important, really, as Burmese was to the Queen. noble would be equally important to his majesty the king and does he has he come to see her yet oh he's been down yeah oh absolutely he's been down many times many times so he knows he knows noble he's written he wrote her on the first time on his on true mcculler wasn't it look they said she was a little bit i wrote her on the very first one i had to give the green light i wrote her on the first two rehearsals and she was very very very good.

1:04:54On the time that he rode his reins were just slightly too short. He and the Prince of Wales still ride their horses if they're riding polo ponies which they I call it the knitting you have four reins and they actually ride too short. If they let out their reins a little bit and let their horses relax then they get a much better ride and he's he's realized now how to do that you've told him of course i told him he didn't respond as his father might have done uh actually actually he did a little bit but i said well it's your choice that's why your choice if you want if you want if you want a decent ride let out you let out your knit in six inches and the mare will be perfectly okay you have you have to be honest to the you can't be anything but honest thank god well she is beautiful really beautiful and now we said goodbye to noble the king's charger and follow terry along the stable block to meet emma the black fell pony who was queen elizabeth's favorite hello oh she's been rolling she's been rolling hello you she's been she's been rolling right right oh bless her a full name colton lima emma but uh just emma and what is her story uh well where did you come as i said i i bought her off a man by the name of tommy campstick um uh from shat fell she's now 28 years old this is Emma's rosebud moment and I have to say she's salivating she's licking the microphone virtually and Harriet our producer oops oh she sneezed a right royal sneeze and why did the Queen form a special relationship with Emma what was it about Emma and the Queen obviously as she aged and she just really comfort, the footfall of her and the comfort and she just had that way, the queen with her hands, I mean she had a wonderful she could have been a surgeon I mean she hands, when you gather your reins up you know the way you ride I mean she had hands like I mean silk like and she just connected with her straight away just absolutely straight away and obviously that brown bag of carrots helped an awful lot every time that brown bag of carrots was there and Emmett knew the rustle of the brown bag the Queen's coming, the rustle of the brown bag and the carrots then appeared paper brown bag, yes that's right look she's really a Chelsea pensioner, she's up there she should actually be in the Royal Hospital in London with a triangular hat on her head she's 28 years old so in human years that's very old she's well up there look terry that was a most amazing visit here i mean incredible what a story and we've i've seen you i've seen your lovely wife sue i feel i've been with the queen today and i've been with emma who has been amazing and you're going to end your days here at windsor castle yes yeah i'll end up in the walls of uh saint George's Chapel well military nights that that's where they end their days you end your days here and then your funeral is held in St George's Chapel and then your remains are put in the in the walls there's some old scallywags in there now and I'll be joining them so you will be here her majesty the Queen of course is here where does emma when she ends up because she's true she's 28 as well isn't she i promised the queen uh that uh i would plant a planter i will bury her or at least her remains probably her ashes uh and they'll go between burmese was her last horse she rode on troop and the color uh and the last horse she ever rode which was a deer deer horse that she rode sanction she will go between the two lovely well look thank you so much terry for sharing your memories of reserve the second it's a a privilege i'm happy to share it with you and thank you so very much for coming

1:09:42Thank you.

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