More Rosebud - Dame Joanna Lumley at the Henley Literary Festival

0:20Hello, I'm Giles Brandreth. Welcome to another episode of More Rosebud. In fact, it's the first, more rosebud of 2026. So I'm saying to you, if we haven't been in touch before this year, Happy New Year. And I'm saying also Happy New Year to my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. Happy New Year, Harriet. Happy New Year, Giles. Did you see at the end of last year, there was a whole, in the papers you may have read this, a whole lot of government documents revealed from a quarter of a century ago. And I was particularly taken with one that struck me, because it was about the prime minister 25 years ago was who?

1:01Who do you think was the prime minister 25 years ago? Tony Blair. It was Tony Blair. Yeah. And Tony Blair went to address the Women's Institute at Wembley. Oh, I bet they loved him. Well, I thought they would love him. Yeah. Why was this 25 years later still being talked about? because it turned out to be an event that was quite trying, challenging for Tony Blair. Many people said this was the moment that the ascendancy of Tony Blair began to end. But he'd been elected with a huge majority in 1997. Come 2001, he goes to address the mass ranks of the Women's Institute. This is the largest women's organization of any kind in the world.

1:47and quite by chance Alistair Campbell now a podcaster like us got in touch with me he was working for Tony Blair and he said Giles I see that you're speaking to the WI on the same day he said have you got any have you spoken to them before I said yes I know them well he said you got any sort of tips and wrinkles advice you could give I said of course I have he said come to 10 Downing Street and I saw Alistair Campbell. I said, the audience will love him. They will really like him. They'll see him as a potential son-in-law. They will think, oh, he's charming. He'll be a big success. And I sat down with Alistair and I said, I'll give you some ideas.

2:33I've spoken to them often and gave some jokes. Anyway, so the day comes when in the morning, The last speaker is Tony Blair, and I'm the next speaker on. And I arrive at Wembley, 10 ,000, 15 ,000 women there. And I arrive and I go into the wings. And Tony Blair is already on the stage. But I sense something quite strange is going on. He isn't getting the warm reception I'd assumed he was going to get. In fact, there is muttering going on. Eventually, there's foot stamping going on. There's jeering going on. The great Tony Blair got, I suppose, I think, which must have been probably the worst reception of his life.

3:17And it made headline news. And I stood in the wings thinking, oh, God, I encourage this man to do this. I gave him these jokes. It's a disaster. And the reason it was a disaster is this. He went out and gave a set piece speech about the National Health Service and the wonderful things the government were doing. And, of course, the Women's Institute is a non-part political organization, and they were interested in meeting somebody who was prime minister, hearing about his work as prime minister. What he should have done was tear up his speech and step aside from the rostrum and just say, sorry, I got that wrong.

3:56What do you want to talk about? And just take questions and answer them in a human way. How did you have turned it around? His problem was, because the stadium is so big, there was a kind of gulf between where he was standing and where the first row of the audience was, and he was in the spotlights. So he couldn't actually see what was going on. He could hear this dissatisfaction from the audience, but he didn't really know what was happening. So I felt so terrible. I say I felt so terrible. The truth is, at the end of the day, only one of us got a standing ovation that day, and it wasn't Tony Blair.

4:29Yeah. Trials for PM. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I felt very guilty about it at the time. And I thought about it the week of Christmas because of this stuff in the paper. And then I felt even more guilty about it because Michelle and I received a Christmas card from Tony and Cherie. Exactly. So all is forgiven. Well, I hope all is forgiven, but it's reminded him. So the reason I'm sharing this with you is to tell you that I have now sent an email to Tony Blair's office saying, Rosebud is waiting for you, Sir Tony Blair. We've had a few prime ministers. We've had Sir Keir Starmer. We've had Boris Johnson.

5:11We've had Sir John Major. So I felt it was about time we had another Labour prime minister. So I'm hoping we will secure the services of Tony Blair. Yes, it would be brilliant to have him, wouldn't it? It would be interesting. It would be interesting. Yeah, it would. And sometimes people say to me in the street, oh, how could you have that person on? So we don't have to agree with everything they say to be interested in what somebody's got to say. So we, you and I, we don't take any political stance at all. We're ready to have people from every political party and none. Aren't I right? Oh, absolutely.

5:42And I think also need to remember about Tony Blair that when he got in in 97, I was dancing in the streets. And so were a lot of people. I mean, he was a really gifted politician and a great communicator. He obviously made some mistakes, which we will talk to him about when he comes on to Rosebud, or maybe not. Well, what we'll talk about is really his roots, the origins of him. Oh, yeah. I mean, the truth is he was prime minister for 10 years. That is not an easy thing to achieve. So as the years go by, I hope we'll tick off every living prime minister on Rosebud. How do we get our guests? Well, we get them a variety of ways, don't we?

6:22We come up with ideas for people. We simply approach them. You hear about people who may be doing the rounds. Often, there are people who I already know. And the person who's featuring on more Rosebud today is one of the people I've known almost for the longest in my life. I've known her for more than 50 years. I knew her, Harriet Jane, before you were born. Oh, wow. It is. And she's only the second person to come on to Rosebud, who's been on before. We had Dame Judi Dench as our very first guest. And then to celebrate our second birthday, we had Judi Dench again. And today, we're going to have somebody who was a guest with us before.

7:09It is Dame, another theatrical Dame, Dame Joanna Lumley. I first met Joanna Lumley when I was a student. In fact, have we written, did I write about it in my diaries? She's been mentioned in the diaries. I think we've had the first time you met her, which was in 1968, I think. 68, probably 69. That's an Oxford Union thing. Oxford Union debate. She came because she came as a guest of one of the guest speakers. She was then, I think briefly, the girlfriend of a chat show host and disc jockey called Simon D. and she came with Simon and we got on and then we got to know each other even better a few years later when she began to work with my friend Simon Cadell.

7:58I think they were on a tour of private lives, the Noel Card play. Anyway, she became one of my best friends and I'm very lucky to have known this beautiful and brilliant person over so many years. And last year she launched a book and I was asked to interview her at the Henley Literature Festival and it was a very windy day, I think, in October and they recorded the conversation and I thought, oh, Joanna's in such good form and telling so many amusing stories, most of which I haven't heard before, why can't we have it as a more rosebud? So this is one of our New Year treats and she's going to talk, of course, about things that we know she cares about, like the Gurkhas, but also unexpected things like her encounter with Leonardo DiCaprio, A kiss with Leonardo DiCaprio.

8:47Indeed. Indeed. A bit of a spoiler there, but there was. Maybe, maybe, trigger warning. Have you kissed Leonardo DiCaprio, Giles? No. Not yet? No. Well, actually, to be honest, I suppose if the role demanded it, I would. But I'm not, on the whole, given to kissing men. Interesting. Oh, I must just tell you this. Do you mind if I name drop? No. I mean, it's a bit late for that, Giles. This was supposed to be a short introduction to Joanna Lumley. I'm sorry. Have you heard of an actor called Robert Stevens? I have indeed, yes. Robert Stevens was famously married to Maggie Smith. They were the power couple, the theatrical glamour couple.

9:29I heard at the weekend from Twiggy, another of our Rosebud guests, I heard from Twiggy that Robert Stevens, who she liked very much, always kissed you, male or female, on the lips. Some people do that. I'm not into that. No, I've got an ex-boyfriend who always kisses me on the lips whenever I see him, which isn't very often, thank goodness. And I think he does it with everyone. But I always think, oh, don't do that, please. Well, I don't know. It's too much. With an ex-boyfriend, there obviously had been some intimacy. So maybe it's a sort of hello for old times sake. But with comparative strangers.

10:15It's too much. It's too much. But apparently, whoever you were, I said, when he got his knighthood, do you think he kissed the Queen? Oh, yeah. Well, I don't think anybody kissed the Queen. I think when you get your knighthood, you just bow. Exactly. This is going to be an exciting start to the new year because we've now got the Rosebud family, haven't we? Yes, we have. Just remind me what the Rosebud family is going to be. It's a club, a subscription club, which you can join by paying£4.99 a month. And it is a chance to listen to us without ads, which I think is very nice, especially if you listen while you're falling asleep.

10:59Quite a few people have said to me they listen at night. and just as they're dropping off or really getting relaxed, an ad for Carphone Warehouse or something starts playing which disturbs their, you know, as you can imagine. And also I think people like bonus episodes and slightly different things. So there's going to be all of that. We've already released a really good bonus episode, haven't we, Giles, where we went to the church where you met T.S. Eliot. Yeah. So people can join the Rosebud family and we hope they will. But rest assured, if you don't join the Rosebud family, We are still here every Tuesday, every Friday, free with ads and fabulous guests.

11:36So you'll be missing nothing. But you will get something extra if you choose to join the family. You will. Well, look, enough of this banter from us. Yes. Basically, what we want to tell people is this is a brilliant new year. There's going to be more and more Rosebud, some fabulous guests coming up every Friday for you. Please join the Rosebud family if you'd like to. If they want to do that, they go to patreon.com forward slash rosebud. Simple as that. That's right. Yeah. So this is Joanna Lumley with some readings from her very entertaining book of treasures at the Henley Literary Festival.

12:14Enjoy, Joanna. Enjoy the new year. Thanks for being part of the Rosebud family. Cue the music.

12:36Lovely. It's too exciting, isn't it? I mean, it really is too exciting. On your behalf, because there won't be time for her to pass among you so you may touch her garb, I'm just going to touch her to show that she's... This is not an AI manifestation. This is the real thing. and I want to say before we begin two things I want to do before we begin in a moment I'm going to tell you why I think I've got all Joanna's books all of them and why I think this for me is the most interesting book I'll explain that in a moment but before we do we did do a charity event a few years ago in fact a couple of years ago at the London Palladium and the sort of well there were lots in fact there were a dozen dames from literally Dame Judi Dench to Dame Joan Collins.

13:27But in the photograph I have of this occasion, which I put on social media tonight, I'm standing in the back row with Dame Joanna Lumley and with Dame Plurida Benjamin, and sitting in the middle of the front row, in between Dame Irene Atkins and Dame Judi Dench, is seated Dame Patricia Routledge. and yes let's have a round of applause for that lovely wonderful person did you work I mean apart from that wonderful occasion we had did you work and know I never worked with her and the most excruciatingly thrilling but painful thing was that we were both up for BAFTAs for the same part which was a comic performance and she was up there for Hyacinth Bouquet and I was up there for Patsy, so this would be right back in the 90s.

14:23And we were sitting at the same table. And just before the presentations and things began, we went out to the loo together and she was there and somebody was saying, you're nervous. And I said, no, I'm not nervous because there's no chance of me getting it because of her. And she said, and I said, I don't, I don't, I mean, just to be here, just to be nominated. And I did mean it was enough. And she said, it's not enough. You'll find in your heart you do want it. And I thought, and God, if anybody should get it, It's Patricia Routledge. So when they called my name, it was both thrilling but terrifying because I thought she should have got it.

14:54I thought she should have got it. You needn't worry. She got so many other awards. She got so many other awards. But you are right. She was. I'm the Chancellor of the University of Chester. We gave her an honorary degree and she came. And she wouldn't use the microphone. It was in Chester Cathedral. She stood centre stage and she gave the most impressive address to the students that I have ever heard. She was a strong, independent, remarkable human being. And I always think the mark of a great actor is often being a great person. She was a most unusual person. And she was full of ambition and fire and energy.

15:30And she could be quite fierce, couldn't she? Anyway, I thought she was tremendous. And you and she share a distinction to have created in your lifetime one character that becomes an iconic figure on its own, like you did with Patsy, or she did with Hiazine's Bouquet. It's not given to many people. No, it isn't. Because the parts aren't given to many people. I think that if you're lucky enough to land, to be matched, to be married to a part that works, she knew how to work Hiazine's Bouquet, and I've been given Patsy. So we were lucky. You're quite right. To be remembered for anything as an actor is wonderful.

16:07Even somebody to remember your name vaguely. but then to be remembered for a role which doesn't fade off or die away if you see any of those if you see actually patricia doing anything nothing she's done has dated or gone out of fashion she was extraordinary she did shakespeare she did check off she did coward as you have done coward over the years and she was brilliant at all of them and she did something you don't do she sang She sang wonderfully. Wonderfully. She was a real singer. Yeah. Yeah, beautiful. You pointed out that I didn't sing. A little bit cutting there, a little bit. You don't need to sing.

16:45Just being you is enough. But what she didn't do is write books. And you have written, you have created this lovely book of treasures. And let me explain why I think this is my favourite of all your books. Over the years, I've been lucky enough to know Joanna since November 1969. I picked her up from Montessori Nursery School. Now, we are the same vintage and we were both very young and I was a student at Oxford and we met at Oxford. And she had then the beauty and the vitality that she has now. She crackled with energy. So I've read all her books over the years and this is the one that I like the most Because when you are telling your story of your life You're being out there and you're telling your story, but getting to know somebody's inner life I think that's what we get from this book of treasures.

17:47What is the idea behind it? How did this come about this little book? It came about because I'd done a book Two three years ago maybe four years ago about the Queen It was called A Queen for All Seasons. And it was a compilation of all the things that people have said and written about in their diaries or newspaper articles or letters about the Queen, the late Her Majesty the Queen. Since she was a little girl, and so there were contributions from Winston Churchill, and then the great people, extraordinary people like Khrushchev writing about her. but there were small observations from children writing in their diaries a little girl in New Zealand waving a flag and writing about how it was so lovely to see the Queen passing by and I'd put it into a book and Hodden Stoughton published it and it was it was adorable and it was the year of the Jubilee and then later that year Her Majesty died but before then I'd said may I do it for Her Majesty they said no the Queen doesn't like any books dedicated to her she and the Duke don't really read the books about it and I said no but can I give her a copy of the book and they said we will see that it is placed before her majesty so my book was obviously brought in on a tray and just taken past so that was thrilling but anyway hodders came to me a little bit later on and said this kind of this was a lovely idea have you got anything else up your sleeve and i said you know the funniest thing is is that in everything i've been doing since i was about 12 i see things that i like and i cut them out i cut them out of newspapers and magazines, I tear them out of programs, I store them in my head because I've got quite a good memory, or I have them in books and I just put markers in books of things that I love.

19:19I said, I could get a kind of, I love, these are things that I have loved, I've loved them for whatever reason it is. They either give me solace or comfort or energy or they amuse me or they fill me with wonder and they said to have a go at it. So I then, every separate bit, I cut out onto separate bits of paper and spread them. You can tell I'm not terribly techy, not terribly, and spread them out on the kitchen table to see if I could get a sort of balance, because I didn't want anything to be too solemn. I tend to go towards quite prayerful, solemn things. As you get older, you do think about life skidding away from you, and we all know that at the end, we will all die.

19:55We know this, and we tend to push it away, because it's kind of something weird we can't think about. We also don't know what it's going to be like. We don't know how we're actually going to die, I mean, it's going to be like being dead. So it was, and it's always something that's coming closer and closer. And as I can hear in the distant hills, the taxi beginning to draw up possibly, with the blanket in the back seat. And you think, well, I just want to have had a good think about things before the time comes to leave this world. So that's what really this is. What is the oldest of the treasures you've got?

20:24Is there any there that come from your childhood or that you've kept for many years? Yes, there's one I kept from my childhood because I just adored it. And I kept it on a little crumpled... In the convent school I went to, when you were confirmed... Where was this? It was at St Mary's. It's gone now. Every school I've ever been to has gone. I didn't burn them all down. But anyway, it was a darling Anglican convent. And when we all got confirmed, it was customary for girls to give each other what was called a confirmation card. It was usually a little Bible marker. And on the back it would say, love from Sarah, or something like that, things like this.

21:00and one I kept was the prayer of St. Jacob Astley before the battle, before the battles and he said Lord I shall be very busy this day, I may forget thee but do not thou forget me and I thought oh that's wonderful so that I had by heart and I'd get it wherever I go whichever kind of wallet or thing I've got I stuff that in the back of it thinking whatever happens today and quite often our lives are very busy with whatever's happening. You just think, yes, that's a little protection. So that's when I was about, what, 13 then. So that's when the collecting started. I didn't realize you came to England at that time.

21:40I wasn't. I was here when I was eight. You came to England because you were born in... Kashmir. Kashmir. Yeah. And is there any Kashmir in there? No. No, but there's some... Because I was born in Kashmir because I was the daughter of a Gurkha. And my father was born in a hall, my sister in Abitabad, and my mother's brought up in India, they were both brought up in India, and so India was all part of our background, but the Gurkhas were part of my background, because the reason I was born there in Kashmir was because that's where my parents had met and married, and then we went to Hong Kong, because that's where my daddy's regiment went, then to Malaya, as it was then, Malaysia now, where daddy's regiment went, and the Gurkhas were all part of this, all part of this, and then much later, long after daddy had died, we had the Gurkha justice campaign, and I've got one Gurkha thing in here, can I just read it?

22:24It's an extraordinary thing, it's about, But everybody who'd worked with the Gurkhas, and that goes to all the soldiers, actually all serving forces, anybody who's come across the Gurkhas is just enchanted by them. They are braver than anything you can imagine. In fact, here, Marshal Sam Mankenshaw said, if a man says he's not afraid of dying, he's either lying or a Gurkha. And this comes from the dictionary of the Nepali language. It was the preface, and it was written by somebody called Professor Sir Rafe Turner. And it just sums up, and I remember it was written on the back of my father's funeral, little funeral sheet thing we had.

23:03As I write these last words, my thoughts return to you who are my comrades, the stubborn and indomitable peasants of Nepal. Once more, I hear the laughter with which you greeted every hardship. Once more, I see you in your bivouacs or about your fires, on forced march or in the trenches. now shivering with wet and cold now scorched by a pitiless and burning sun uncomplaining you endure hunger and thirst and wounds and at the last your unwavering lines disappear into the smoke and wrath of battle bravest of the brave most generous of the generous never had country more faithful friends than you isn't that lovely isn't that lovely tell us a little bit about your parents who they were, and what kind of things they read and encouraged you to read when you were a little girl.

23:56They were, my father was a soldier, but he was really a philosopher, a dreamer, a historian, and quite nearly the laziest man I've ever met. If there was a chance of not having to do something, you'd say, darling, mummy will do that much better. Oh, the little flowers, the little daisies and buttercups, we don't want to cut those off the grass, just let's leave them there. He became incredibly gentle. He was very wise, extraordinarily funny, extraordinarily funny. What year would he have been born in? He was born in 1917. And he left school and he joined the army. He went to Sandhurst and then joined.

24:33He wanted to join up to an Indian regiment, Indian army as it was then. Why was that? Because he had been born in India. He was brought up. They were India people. And then going back on, the Lumleys were first in India in 1792 or something. So we go back quite a long time on both sides. My mother's father was a diplomat, and he had Persia, but he also had Sikkim, Bhutan, Tibet. So this was the sort of areas where the thinking and the travelling came from. My grandmother, who was a Dane, was born in New Zealand. So everybody came from everywhere. They were married in Rangoon. You know, we were all over the place.

25:09So we didn't really have a home. And we were always used to being gypsies and packing up and leaving and going on. What we took with us were books, gramophone records, the old 78s, the big shellac ones, wind-up gramophone, putting it on, needle on, and off it would start. They read all the time. What were they reading? All the time. They read all the time. They read to us as children. So we learned to read very, very soon. I've got a sister two years older than me. She was always miles ahead of me and everything because she was two years older, but also because she read so much. She read like a wolf.

25:44She just adored reading. And I sort of tagged along behind because I felt I didn't have to do half as anything as Eleni had done it before me, so I didn't have to do it. So I was sort of slightly stuck on Enid Blyton when she was doing Charles Dickens. Anyway, a little bit thin up here, me, not terrifically there. So we read all the time, and they read anything. They didn't really read what I would call trashy novels. They loved the classics. They were very, very well versed in that. My father, being a philosopher, loved Montaigne's essays and things like that. and they would read at meals. You'd have a book beside your plate, you know.

26:18Their room was a room without books in it and even now we have books piled on tables, on every wall there's bookshelves, in every single room, including lavatories, there are books.

26:37Can you remember the first poem you learnt by art? I can remember the first poem I made up. I was in Hong Kong and I was about two I think and my mother reminded me of it so it stuck in my mind The cat sat on the road suddenly came a car and runned it over Up jumped the bandage and the plaster and popped it on So not really a poem as such but a little bit free verse But it's a minor classic in a certain way But the first poem which isn't in here was actually Nod the Shepherd by Walter Dlamet Softly along the road through evening in a twilight dim with rose wrinkled with the agent, drenched with you, old nod, the shepherd goes.

27:12And so I can do all that one because I had quite an easy way, I had a facility for getting stuff fast. I could read it and knew it. I had a photographic memory so I could just take it and it was in. So that's how I learnt. I must explain that the person who is reporting this for the Henley Times has already written the review which says the audience was blown away by Joanna Lumley on Friday night. It's quite windy up here, isn't it? It surely is. That's Storm Amy. But exciting in its own way. Is this Storm Amy out there? Yes, this is Storm Amy coming around. So how did you choose what, if your reading as a child was wide and varied, how did you actually work out, you're placing these things on the kitchen table, what you wanted?

27:57I wanted to be truthful. I wanted to be as truthful as possible for the bones of the book. So I literally got out everything that I had really truly, truly saved. Some I knew that I'd got passages in books that I obviously didn't rip out and carry with me, but that I knew that I would find later on. But the things that I actually had and carried about and glued in the backs of things, and everything I have, for instance, every cupboard door you open in our house has got a poem written inside it. Print it out and put it on there. Put things on backs of doors so you don't waste any space. You don't waste your life not knowing poetry.

28:31Why does it work so well for you? Why is this poetry everywhere to you? What's it doing for you? There's something about poetry which distills, it shortens, it can capture, and it suddenly makes you, can turn you on a sixpence. I don't know what it is about poetry. I'm hooked on it. I've always loved it. I've got a whole bookshelf at home which is only poetry books. And just this week, the great brown pattern has gone. on the poems modern ancient I love the ones which rhymed the ones which scanned because those are easiest to learn but then I love blank verse and I got you get more grown up and things that you I don't get this go slowly read it slowly understand it go over it with people listen to people explaining what it is I mean not not explaining it like humor which cannot be explained and as soon as you start picking things apart to find out where they're funny they'll never make you laugh again so don't do that but with poetry it's important with things like Shakespeare people Shakespeare straight over my head.

29:35It can't go over your head. It's written for us. It's written for ordinary people like us. So you have to know how to get into it. Once you understand it, it's just magic. It's revelatory. Do you agree with T.S. Eliot, who said that actually you don't always have to understand it? No. That sometimes people could say some of his work was quite obscure, and he said it doesn't matter if you understand it or don't understand it. There's a kind of music to the language. Yes. And you will absorb something from it. Exactly. And it's the same with anything like music itself. You don't have to know it all, but just modern art or art of any kind, you don't have to know it all, but at least be open to it and let it sink in and affect you.

30:17We build a lot of barriers. We say, oh, I don't know, I won't like that. I'm not going to, oh, I wouldn't like that. Give it a chance. Give people a chance. Don't be afraid. I think that's one of the things, and I wrote it here, is that the biggest fear we've got is fear itself. Once we can conquer fear, we're okay. That's the enemy. Is there the wisdom in this book of people that you've met over the years? Because you've met so many remarkable people. I have. This is not actually wisdom, and I feel rather ghastly saying it. I heard it, and it was so funny. I rang him up to say, is it true? Stephen Fry.

30:55And he was somebody overheard him at a party. A man came up to him and said, Stephen, I wish I had a tenth of your talent. And Stephen said, your wish has been granted.

31:09That's so good. That is. It's pretty good, isn't it? So there are very few of those. But quite a lot of the people I've turned to, as it were, are sort of established poets. There's John Betjeman in there because I adore him. The thing about Betjeman is because he's very easy to read and understand, people think that it's a bit normal, it's a bit not grand, it's not fine. But when you think of the great artists, particularly the Dutch interior painters, when you think of those paintings which are just a woman reading a letter or a servant washing out a bowl, they are tiny, small, humble, domestic scenes made glorious.

31:50and that's what Betjeman could do. He could go to the most ordinary little things and somehow his enchanting and gentle view, his kindly and perceptive view of people made it magic. Do you remember that last television interview with him when he was being wheeled? It was a wonderful programme. John Betjeman was a very old man. His programmes on television were always so entertaining as well as wise and he's being wheeled across a hill by the person who actually directed the film and was in it having a conversation with him. And Betchmann is now an old man. He seems older than he was. I think he was only in his 80s when he died, but he seemed a lot older.

32:29He's being wheeled across this hill, and the interviewer says, now, Sir John, is there anything that you regret in life? And John Betchmann looked up and said, yes, not enough sex.

32:41I shouldn't then ask this. Did you ever meet John Betchmann? I mean, it follows us night and day. I didn't. I knew his daughter and his granddaughter. and I have his collected poems and I gave it to Dele and Dele and his one of his granddaughters and said, Dele, would you get your grandfather to sign this? And he was quite old and wibbly-wobbly, but I do have a signature in my book, wibbly-wobbly, and he'd always said, darling, who's this for? And she said, Grandpa, it's for Joanna, right, Joanna? And he wrote Dele and she said, no, okay, put that out. So we've got quite a little scrambling and then his little name at the end, adorable.

33:17Wonderful. I was lucky enough when I was very small to encounter T.S. Eliot. I was a little boy and he patted me on the head and made me learn Macavity the mystery cat. Of that sort of encounter, he's one of the greats, isn't he, T.S. Eliot. Who would you say is your greatest encounter when you felt as a person in awe of who you were with? Ted Hughes. Oh, Ted Hughes, the poet. Ted Hughes, the poet. And how did this occur? Not Ted Hughes, the tap dancer. Ted Hughes, the poet. Why did I meet him? I don't know, but it was probably at Farms for City Children. He was a patron of that. And he was also, but this was at the launch of a book called The Rattle Bag, which he did with Seamus Heaney.

34:01And I did get the great Seamus Heaney, who was reluctant ever to sign things. I did get his signature in it because I'd said to Ted, will you sign it? And he said, far more important, this is the greatest poet in the room. This is the greatest poet alive today, and that was Seamus Heaney. But Ted Hughes was astonishing. The Queen Mother was in love with him. And it's not surprising. He was the most dazzling person. He had saturnine looks, and he had the most extraordinary direct stare, and there was something Heathcliff-ish about him. He looked a bit like a ruffian. And he was a brilliant poet.

34:35He was a brilliant poet. So he was extraordinary to meet as a poet. what about Frank Sinatra? No, because Frank Sinatra wrote I mean Ted Hughes wrote some marvellous poems but doobie doobie doobie do is a line that's been in my head for a number of years. I've got to tell you, look Frank Sinatra, strange enough, I've got a story about Frank Sinatra I was lucky enough to be in a Bond film which has made me forever a Bond girl which is one of the proudest boasts I've got on a magic secret service and it was produced by Cubby Broccoli and Harry Saltzman. Harry didn't come out to the shoot but Cubby did so he got to know us all very well in the shoot in Switzerland and then when he'd come back he decided to throw a party for Frank Sinatra who was visiting London at the time and in those days you could which Cubby did anyway he bought as it were an entire Italian restaurant just off Curzon Street for the evening he so nobody was allowed in it was made a private event and we were we were all going to be there it was only a little restaurant it had a place upstairs, and then a place downstairs where there would have been some tables and stuff like this.

35:39And Frank Sinatra was going to come. Being the sort of mastermind over all of this was David Niven's stunning son, David Niven Jr., who had just the same blazing blue eyes, just the same adorable quality of charm and welcome. And he said, Joe, why don't you come with me? Frank's going to arrive soon, and you can stand near the front door, and then you'll get to meet him. I mean, there weren't very many people at this party, maybe 40, 45, so a small, small number. And he said, but that way you'll get to meet him. I said, oh good, oh blue eyes, my gosh, Frank Sinatra, golly gee, stood there by the door and there the car door opened and out came Frank Sinatra.

36:14I don't know if you've ever met somebody who is staggeringly famous, but it hits you like a thunderbolt because there they are, there they are. It's when you see the queen or when you see these huge stars, when you see a beetle or somebody you adore, you know, You just go, oh my god, and there was Frank Sinatra getting out and coming smoothly towards the door and the door was open And he came, Niv Junior going, hi, and people going, hi, and the cubby, you're going, hug, hug, and all this thing And then Niv Junior said, Frank, I'd like you to meet Joanna Lumley, and Frank looked at me with those blue eyes and said Shall we leave now?

36:49I was such a little prudy prim girl, and I got into a panic, I mean, oh no, Mr Sinatra, there are lots of people downstairs who want to meet you Who want to meet you? So he went downstairs. So he went downstairs and there was finger food and stuff like this and people being sweet and being darling to each other. Frank was just moving easily because Cubby had got friends of his and people he was at ease with. And somebody said, Frank, give us a song. And he said, I don't have a piano. Out of the wings came a piano with music on it and a pianist. And Frank said, this is ridiculous. You don't want to hear this.

37:22And he put out one hand and into the hand appeared a glass of whiskey. And he just held out this other hand. And as he did that, a stool appeared behind him. He sat back on the stool, took a puff of that and just said, it's a quarter to three. And off he went and he started singing. And he sang for about two hours, just to us 40 people. And we sat on the floor like schoolchildren. It was the most astonishing evening. None of it recorded except here. Wonderful. Wonderful. Have that in your memory. Because you have, I mean, the great stars. I was actually with one, well I'm with one now, but I was with one last night in the presence of Taylor Swift.

38:02Oh my God! Yeah, so I... Think of that, within 24 hours, breathing in Joanna Lumley and Taylor Swift. But why were you with Taylor Swift? Often these people are, as you rightly say, there is something, well it's the glamour of fame. It is the sheen and the glamour of fame. Often, though, they are smaller than you'd expect. Frank Sinatra was not that tall, was he? No, and he was smaller. And Tom, I meant Tom Cruise. No, stop it.

38:36How did you find Leonardo DiCaprio? Adorable. Do you know, I was terrified of meeting him because I was afraid, he was so good. I've always loved everything he's done, from What's Eating Gilbert Grape, playing that child, and every piece of work he's done, always so different from the other, I thought it was been exceptional and I thought he must probably be a Hollywood brat. So when I was invited by Mr. Martin Scorsese to appear in The Wolf of Wall Street in two scenes which were only really with Leo, nobody else was going to be there, my heart began to pound and I thought he's going to be a bit of a nightmare, a little bit of a braggarty boy, a little bit who are you, kind of that sort of thing.

39:15He was the polar opposite. He was the most courteous, charming, kindly, actorish, wanted to run the lines, happy to do things, listened to direction from Martin Scorsese, was courteous to photographers who did themselves in the bushes because we shot what was supposed to be Hyde Park in America because Mr. Scorsese didn't like flying. And so we shot it all in Brooklyn. So what looked like Hyde Park, they just put in a few English bobbies walking around the background, somebody with a silver swan pram or something, that'll do. And so we were there, but of course the press were all there because they knew there might be kissing, me and Leo.

39:53I mean, I was playing his wife's aunt, so it's not exactly sort of... Anyway, but there would be a kissing thing taking place. But he was so courteous because they ruined a couple of takes because they were tickly, tickly, tickly. And he went to them. This is DiCaprio. Instead of saying, get those people cleared out, he went to them and said, guys, would you be very sweet? Let's just do a couple of takes. And then, you know, then we can do pictures after that. I've never, he was astonishing. And what was interesting is that I wondered always about it because Leonardo DiCaprio sounds as Italian as you can imagine.

40:23That's his father's name. His mother was German. And if you think of him then with German blood, you can see where that face comes from. And that combination of German and Italian and his God-given talent. And rather like Robert Redford, who did you know Robert Redford, so recently deceased, never got an Oscar for his acting. And DiCaprio only got an Oscar when he'd grown a beard and nearly died being mauled by a bear in that frightful film. They only can do it when they think you've absolutely nearly died, because he's an astonishing actor, gifted and turn on a sixpence. Beautiful boy. Can you give us a flavour of how your mind works?

41:05Because you lead this very interesting and varied life, you're a very curious person, but you do such a variety of things which some people find difficult to cope with because they want to put you in a box. And you do these extraordinary travel documentaries on television. You make comedy. I mean, you know, Patsy is one of the greater mortals. You do proper drama. I loved you in that checkup. Was it The Cherry Orchard? Yes. When you played Madame Ranevska, whatever the name is. You do all these different things. You've written memoirs. You've compiled this. And then you do all this amazing charity work.

41:44What is happening in your head? Are you easy in your head? Are you well organized? How do you work your life? I am organized. I've got a lot of stuff in my head, but also in my life. But I know where it is. So if you came to me and said, I need a small tortoiseshell colored button. straight to the button drawer, if you know what I mean, get the button out and I'll have the thing. I'm quite good at that. So there might be lots of people go, woo, and you go, no, because I know where it all is. I know where things are. And the things that I know are going to be important to me, which are all the travel things I did, I've kept every single, all the notes, all the stuff I did about those programs.

42:25So when somebody says, we're going to Japan, can you remember where you went, stayed in Hokkaido? I say one minute and I can go there and find it. Those things are really important to me. Some things I can't remember like lots of the shows and the plays and things I've done I can't remember what they are. Oh really? And so people quote lines and I don't know what they're talking about They quote lines from Patsy. I don't know what that is because you forget about things You do it and you don't have to watch it. You've done it. You don't have to watch stuff So I don't know and then people say and you're in that you go was I?

42:52Was I in that? Oh my god, I realized I was in a film and I never even saw it. How interesting

43:03do you remember i hope you do remember you appeared in a play with one of my favorite people the person who plays niles in fraser yes um david hyde pierce i was going to call him wilfred hyde white but yes david hyde pierce and mark rinus was in that you remember that do you i do remember it was called labette it was an extraordinary it was a kind of one-off one of these extraordinary pieces of work that somebody when young wrote it. He wrote it straight out. He was at university, an American writer, boy at university, he just wrote it straight out. It was written in rhyming couplets and it was in 17th century France.

43:38So a lot of people went, woo. It was desperately funny. It had the longest speech known to man, which Mark Rylance did straight through. And it was all played in one entire act, which I rather love. It means when you can get out and have a drink and go and have supper afterwards. It was astonishing. We played it here in London, the comedy theatre as it was, the Harold Pintaner, and then we took it out to the Music Box Theatre on Broadway and played there for about four months. With this book, one of the things I love about it, it's a perfect bedside book because people now write books that are far too long.

44:15I'm reading a very good book at the moment by a friend of mine, But I'm reading it in bed and it's a hard bag and I'm knocking myself out Because inevitably I fall asleep while reading and so every book I've read I've always read it twice because I read two pages and I have to read the second page again the following night So I'm doing one page at a time. I love this because it's a perfect bedside book tuck it under the pillow Keep it on the bedside, but I wondered how is your attention span? What I love about this is my attention span is not very great and you can dip into this book You can actually open it anywhere.

44:49There's something wise. And I wanted it to be something that, it's rather like very good food, you know. If the food isn't terrific, you can scoff it down. If it really is good, you savour every mouthful. And you don't need quite so much. And so a lot of these things, I've got something from Horace, Ode's book two, and you go, please, you go, but listen to what Horace said in his, Xenophanes, the Greek philosopher and poet, claimed that if horses could draw, they would draw their gods as horses. Now, just think about that. What has mankind done? We've made our gods all like human beings. We can't bear the idea that God might be a horse.

45:35Just an idea. That's an interesting idea. Oh, you'll be thinking deeply after you've studied this. Have you been to the bookshop in Paris called Shakespeare? Yes, I love it. I love it too. If you don't know this bookshop, it's essentially, it's a second-hand bookshop as well as modern books. It's wonderful. On the left bank. Yeah. And it's one of my favourite places. And I remember going there not that long ago and my wife, Michelle, who is here tonight, was quite excited. She said, oh, Charles, this will please you. I found one of your books here. And this was on a Wednesday. That's relevant because I went to the shelf and took down my book and opened it.

46:09And this was on a Wednesday. And I opened it up and there was an inscription in it which said, to my dear friend Frank, with love, from the author Giles, and it was dated that Monday.

46:25So on the Tuesday, taking it down to the Second Hand Bookshop. My wife says to me, Giles, with your book, give them straight to Oxfam, cut out the middleman. But there's a lovely quotation there. There is. It's over a doorway, and it's taken from one of the books in the Bible, and I can't remember which one it is. And it's translated into English, and it says... Hebrews 13.2. Hebrews 13.2. It's, be not inhospitable to strangers, lest they be angels in disguise. Isn't that lovely? Doesn't that give us something to think about in these troublous times? Who is the author of your... Because this book, why I think it is so important, is if you want to know what Joanna is really like, and actually she's really like this.

47:14full of energy and heart and love and you know but if you want to know that you you read this book and you find it but what made you this sort of person why do you think you are as you are I well what do you think curiosity I've always been interested in things I think being born on the move might be something to do with it because I've never I mean I feel I belong everywhere so it doesn't I'm not going boohoo don't belong anywhere but I don't and my family has never had a house so when people say you're coming back to England where's your base in we've never had a base in England so we've never belonged here so for generations we haven't belonged here but I am I've got my British nationality papers because I had to get those to get to belong here because I was born abroad my father was born abroad and so I've always been longing to join a circus and and not work.

48:07Not have to work. So acting is not working. It's something you adore doing. Doing stuff like that, you can work 25 hours of the day, and it's a pleasure and a joy, and not be paid for it because it's not work. It doesn't matter. You can live off air. You have to most of the time until you hit the jackpot, and then you don't because acting is only feast or famine. A lot of jobs are like that. a lot of independent artistic workers like that. Your pictures sell, sell, sell, and suddenly you've forgotten. But I feel you hit the jackpot years ago. I mean, I remember things like the New Avengers. Oh, but the New Avengers, I didn't even get out of being in debt on the New Avengers.

48:46They paid you a little. They paid you very little, so you become famous. Is this true? Yeah, oh yeah. Gareth and I were paid... Gareth Hunt. Gareth Hunt and I, lovely Patrick. Well, we were the fourth. There'd been Ora Blackman, Diana Rake. Third one, I bet nobody can remember. I can. Linda Thorson. Exactly. Thank you. You wait till you hear her Frank Sinatra story. Just literally, the tone just goes right back. And then ten years after Linda Thorson, along I came too. Why was I telling the story? The New Avengers. You're telling me, because I assume that made you rich as well as space. I was on a five-year contract.

49:24And so they said, look, the first two years will be a bit slim. But after that, look at it. Your pay goes up, up, up. by the end of it you can buy a small country you'll be so rich you'll take your yacht to your small country it'll be so beautiful and I thought oh that's marvellous what I didn't know was their plan was only to do the first two years so we were on scrape we were on scrape it was very very small but I can't resent it because from it it was the first time my name stuck I'd done shows before that I'd been Ken Barlow's near fiancé in Coronation Street I'd done a Dracula film I'd done a Bond film, I'd done all sorts of bits and pieces.

50:02And my name had never stuck. I'd been playing pretty girls and people's girlfriends and so on. So until I did The New Avengers, I didn't really have a name of my own. And so that was wonderful, so I didn't resent it. But it was poorly, poorly paid with no repeat fees. And we ran out of money in England, so we were sent to France. Ran out of money in France, we were sold to Canada. When Gareth and I were in Canada, and our one caravan where we all had to change was also the cruise lavatory. and one morning we came in and the lavatory had overflowed because it was raining and all Gareth's shirts had fallen into the shit on the floor and we were quite cross about it and so we went and sat in a car with Patrick and we locked all the doors and they were not coming out and we discovered that the assistant wardrobe master assistant wardrobe master was paid more than Gareth than me so that's how it was and with no repeat fees so that's how it was and it's lovely but I don't resent it because there's no room for resentment.

50:56You mustn't have that. It only eats you up. That's what I'm trying to get at. What is the source of that philosophy? Bah, let it go. No, but where does all that come from? Life. Oh, you weren't like that then? You've learnt that over the years. I think I had it in me anyway. I think I knew there's no reason to have horribleness in you because it only makes you ill. I think I knew that. I used to have quite a quick temper and I used to have quite a fiery temper and I think I've got into frightful scrapes and been very rude to people. I did usually, I mean, I got myself out of doing commercials by mistake because I love doing voiceovers.

51:33But early on, I was doing a commercial, a radio commercial or something like that, and I said, who wrote this crap? And of course, the person who wrote it was sitting there. And for 10 years, I was persona non grata for being so critical and rude. It was crap. But anyway, that's none of my business because they were the writers, they were the creatives. It took me a long time to realize that a lot of creatives aren't necessarily creatives. They're just people who've got a job. They're writing stuff down. And the better way around it, instead of saying who wrote this rubbish, is to say, gosh, I love this.

52:03Can I try it one different way? Could I, instead of using that word four times, shall I just move it around? Can we try it just for me? And you can work your way around to doing things in a better way. Do things in a better way. Try not to be bloody awful. I think I could have been. I was so nearly fired from school so often. Only because I was cheeky. The nuns only kept me on because I did A-level Latin.

52:30I recall a year or so ago, you did my podcast, Rosebud, and I asked you a couple of questions. I'm going to ask you them again. The answers do not need to be the same. But one was, can you remember a dark time? Is there a dark time that comes to mind? Yeah. Oh. I was doing a play in London at the Garrick Theatre, and it was a Brian Ricks farce and it was very funny and it was terrific and it was lovely. I was sharing a dressing room, which I adore because you chitter-chatter before. It was an extremely funny little part I had with Alfred Marks and it was a typical Brian Ricks farce. It was the best fun ever.

53:09I got ill during it. I had to go and have an ovarian operation, which meant they had to open you up. In those days, they were slashers. They liked to go across your hip bone, open you up like this and say, what's in here? Rubble, rubble, rubble, stitch it up. Like that. And Brian came to me, Brian Ricks came to me about a day after the thing when I was sitting a bit crouchy, crouchy. And he said, can you go back? Somebody's given their ticket back because they said they wanted to see you. And I didn't like that because we're losing money. Incidentally, he'd stopped my money because he said we have to pay an understudy to come on because you can't have money.

53:41And this is on, I was on 40 quid a week, so it wasn't very much anyway. I mean, it was beggar's money. And my son, my little baby boy, who was only two years old at the time, The au pair girl jumped ship. One of my cousins was my age, was dying of something. Everything suddenly spiralled up, and I was made to go back on stage long before I could hardly stand upright. And I began to hallucinate. I could see in the boxes, I could see a man every night levelling up a machine gun and just taking aim. And I remember thinking, if I stand here, I could just stop Debbie being hit there, but then he might move the gun around.

54:19So this is not good in a comedy. This is not right at all. And one Saturday morning, we had two shows that day. I can remember living in my rented flat. I'd sent Jamie to stay with my parents because the au pair girl had jumped ship. I went and sat in the corner of the room, and I said, I will never go back. And so I went to Charing Cross, and I bought a ticket, and I went down to Staplehurst. And from Staplehurst station, I rang my father and said, can you come and collect me? and they went, darling, you've got two shows today. And I said, no, I haven't. I'm never going back. And it was like Stephen Fry.

54:53I think it was like people who, under pressure in the war, I mean, it's pathetic to line myself up with this, but suddenly something in you goes, you can't do any more. I didn't let the people down, my fellow actors. I didn't let them down. Something stopped. It just felt like that. It just stopped. And I was out of that play. I was not only out of that play. I was out of, I then went into a real deep, deep, deep. So for about six months, I couldn't walk. I couldn't really cross the road. I didn't dare go into shops. It was a pretty slim, bad time. But this is where the good thing is. I thought, I have to never get as deep as this again.

55:33So how should I do it? Let me see how I would get out of this on my own. This is before you ever went to psychiatrists or people who would counsel you or tell you how to do things. So you had to, I said, look, this is what, you're going to the supermarket now. So now you're going to a supermarket. And you walk in through the door, and you bump into a whole pile of bottles. And all the bottles smash, and you trip, and you fall over, and you cut yourself. So now you're bleeding, and all the bottles are on the floor. What happens? What happens, Joe? And the other side of my head said, kind people will help you.

56:06And I pushed it further, and I said, okay, and you've got no money, and you're bleeding, and your skirt is falling off, and you've got no pants on. Now what? And the same Joe said from the other side of my head, kind people will help you. And I've known this all my life, and they have always. And we're all kind people, and we all help people who in varying degrees come to us and say, can you help? It might be just helping take a lid off a jar, but it might be more than that. So always help when you can. Before I ask you my second question, let's see. Do you mind if we have a couple of questions from the audience?

56:43Is that allowed? I love it. I love it. I love it. There's something here which I've loved. Oh, I thought you were... No, no, it was just a tiny wistful twist of something. It was a little... It was an idea I had. It's gone. So we've got... Oops, we've got time for a couple of questions. What... Oh, actually, can I say, you do attract a very physically attractive crowd. They are beautiful, aren't they? I mean, my gosh, this is Henley's finest here. If there's somebody who's got a question they'd like to ask, I will repeat it so it's picked up by the microphones. It's over there. Yes, far away. We can't possibly come and see you and you not say something about Ab Fab.

57:20I had my formative years in the 80s. It was fabulous. I'd just love to know what it was like for you. Honestly, I can't tell you. We did that show live in front of an audience, less than this, but maybe the middle section of this, on a Friday night. We'd get the words on Monday. We'd try to sort of read it through and begin to block it on sellotape, as you know you don't rehearse in the actual place. On Tuesday, we'd try to rehearse it. Wednesday, the crew would come in to see where they were going to place all the cameras. We'd scrabble on. Jennifer's still writing. Quite often, she hadn't written the whole show.

57:51And so we'd be getting new lines. You'd go, my God, my God. On Thursday, you'd do the outside broadcast bits, which they'd drop into it, like getting out of taxis or doing stuff outside. And then on Friday, we would do it live in front of an audience with five cameras. And the front part of the set was usually the sitting room and usually the kitchen or something like that or sometimes a Dina's bedroom and then cameras and the cameras would trundle and there'd be gaps in between. Now, during rehearsals, we were all there. The five J's, so of course it was June Whitfield, the great long-lost, Jane Horrocks, Julia Sawala, Jennifer Saunders, Joanna, lovely.

58:27And the five J's, we'd all be there and we'd all watch each other's work. We'd all encourage you to say, keep that in, that really works. That's funny, funny. No, but do it closer. Just do that bit closer if that worked. So we'd all be watching and monitoring each other's work, editing each other on. and we laughed, we cried sometimes we became incoherent we laughed so much we laughed too much for words Is it different working with a group of women than working with men? I don't know, I never think here's something strange, I don't think of people as men or women I don't think of myself as a man or a woman Well you're lucky to be living in 2025

59:04But one of the best, can I just say one of the best bits one of the happiest things we ever did was when we played very, very old. So we had the most amazing amount of prosthetic makeup. We had little bald caps, and we had our faces modeled, so we had extra very, very oldie, oldie faces and gizzards here. We had little humpy backs. We had special claw-like arms. We had little saggy titties hanging in sandbags down here, and little veins all painted over everything. And then Pat had very, very thin, very wispy little wiggy bits there, which he still painted, did up like this. we did our makeup, Patsy, now a bit blind, and Patsy had found some false teeth in a dustbin and put them in a lot of stuff.

59:44Well, Jennifer, we could hardly, we were crying. This is the BBC, and we were going to do an outside broadcast shot. So we were getting ready for that. Bob Spears, that was already our director, getting already very cross with us. We said, we have to go around the BBC offices and just pop our heads around the door and just go hello. So Jennifer would have like this, and we went and knocked on the door. She said, hello. And they just said, yes, lovely, funny, get out. and the less they laughed, the funnier it was. So we all then got into the coach. Jennifer and I were just looking at each other.

1:00:13We just adored each other. We thought we were so marvellous. We were so repellent and hunched and ghastly with these things. Got into the coach to go out towards Reading, which is where I think we were doing the shot, and I sat quite near the front like this. I loved myself, my teeth, practically my teeth like this. Anyway, we pulled up at a traffic light, and I looked down, and there was a car there, an open car with a man with his wife and I think two children in the back. and I went, hello, out of the window. And he looked up and said, oh, look, it's Joanna Lumley.

1:00:48I think we've got time for a couple more quickies before a final... Yes, over there somewhere? Or over here? There's a roving microphone. No, they don't want another word from us, Joanna. They do. Yes, they do. I see the very person who wants the question asked. There he is. This can be the last question. and then I've got a couple more little things to ask you, Jo. Hi, Joanna. I wanted to know, in all the places you've visited in your documentaries, what's the most inspiring place you've visited? Oh, look, this is odd. I feel like a very flirty girl because wherever I've just come back from, I love that very dearly.

1:01:22But some of the places, because of the names of them, the Banda Islands, where the great Spice Wars started, the only place in the world for five tiny islands which had nutmegs on, which is why we owned New York. We were given New York, swapped from Holland. But there was Samarkand was the thing. And that was James Ellroy Flecker who wrote, you know, The Golden Road to Samarkand. Some of these names stick in your head, names like Zanadu and Samarkand and Bokhara. Going to Samarkand was heart-wrenchingly beautiful. going to Iran where my grandmother had been when it was Persia and she said of all the places she'd been to in the world and she'd been everywhere she wanted to live she would have lived in Persia she adored it so much the beauty of that place and being in Iran somehow in some interim time when we were allowed in just our tiny camera crew allowed in and to roam through the entire country go wherever we wanted these are special things gathered in my Buddha but more than gathered in my own bosom, gathered on camera.

1:02:32So this was the magic of it all. So even what I wrote in my notebooks, we've got the backup of the camera lens to bring everybody there because I'm aware of the fact that wherever I go, most people haven't got the time, the ability, the wherewithal to travel like this. And even if they do go to those countries, they won't get the chance to switch the lights on in the Sistine Chapel at five in the morning. They won't, darling. No. In a moment, you've got to slip away, because I know you're going on somewhere, so I won't be able to ask you to sign any books. But before you go, and I've got one last question.

1:03:08Is there a little something you'd like to read to us from that book? Is there something, a favourite passage you've got in your head, I want to read this to you? I don't know, I don't know. Did you have? I don't know, I've got so many. Oh, yes, I think I'd like to read this, because it's going back to Bond. And incidentally, we've got Ian Fleming's niece in the audience. Yes, we have. It's Lucy Fleming, and she's here. And so, Lucy, darling. this is for you especially. Now this was because extraordinarily I as a woman was chosen to read for audiobooks some of the James Bond books. So huge privilege and I was reading this in the in the recording studio and when we got to this bit it was so delicious we had to stop recording and we all agreed that actually what we would do at the end of the recording was actually to mix up this martini.

1:03:52Bond insisted on ordering lighters Hague and Hague on the rocks and then he looked carefully at the barman. A dry martini, he said, one in a deep champagne goblet. Oui, monsieur. Just a moment. Three measures of Gordon's, one of vodka, half a measure of Kina Lille. Shake it very well until it's ice cold, then add a large thin slice of lemon peel. Got it? Certainly, monsieur, the barman seemed pleased with the idea. Gosh, that's certainly a drink, said Leiter. Bond laughed. when I'm concentrating he explained I never have more than one drink before dinner but I do like that one to be large and very strong and very cold and very well made I hate small portions of anything particularly when they taste bad this drink's my own invention I'm going to patent it when I can think of a good name he watched carefully as the deep glass became frosted with the pale golden drink, slightly aerated by the bruising of the shaker.

1:04:59He reached for it and took a long sip. Doesn't that make us want a drink, darling? It would turn you to drink. Time for a drink. As we go, Joanna, we have enjoyed drinking deeply from the cup that is you. We think you're wonderful. We love you and we love your book. and we're all excited to have it in our hands. I want you to end, if you would, either a little bit of philosophy, what you've learnt, or you can choose on a moment of joy. We talked earlier about the dark time, very movingly actually, a moment of joy in your life. What brings joy to Joanna London? You brought joy to us. What brings joy to you?

1:05:45There's something of a Vedic hymn which is in here. It just says, look to this day. Yesterday's gone, tomorrow hasn't come. Yesterday's whatever it was. Tomorrow isn't there yet. You can't affect tomorrow. You can't affect yesterday because it's happened. So live this day. This has been the hardest lesson in my buzzy buzzy life is to live now, to live this moment and to be here in this tent honestly is the happiest I could ever be with you, Giles Brandreth and this audience. at Henley. Thank you so much. Thank you.

1:07:05That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth. Thank you for listening.