More Rosebud - Dreams - a Rosebud Family "Down Memory Lane" exclusive!

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2:23Hello and welcome to More Rosebud. If you're listening to this live as we drop it, it means you're listening to it on Tuesday, the 18th of August, in the year of our Lord, 2026. I say in the year of our Lord. That's the way my dad always described the years. He always said in the year of our Lord, as in B.C., you know, before Christ, and A.D. Anno Domini, meaning the year of our Lord. All these things have changed. B.C. is now B.C.E., I think, before the common era. But my dad was born in 1910. Why am I talking about my dad? Because this is a special edition of More Rosebud with a family twist for reasons I will explain in a moment.

3:07And I'm speaking to you from Edinburgh, where I'm appearing on the Edinburgh Fringe. And I'm not alone. I'm speaking to you from our studio at the W Hotel in Edinburgh. And the Rosebud family has gathered here today for this episode of More Rosebud. I say the Rosebud family. Of course, it's me, Giles Brandreth. I'm the presenter of the show and my producer and friend, Harriet Jane. How are you, Harriet? I'm fine, thank you. In good form? Yeah. Good. And you're staying where? Not at the hotel. You're down the road somewhere. Yeah. Pleased with your accommodation? It's a very nice flat. Good. It needs a good flat.

3:45What's the best feature of your flat? A comfortable bed. That's all one needs in life. Yes. And I hope a comfortable sofa for your guests. Yes, very comfortable. Including your children. Yes. Well, they just sleep in the bed. Oh, good. Yeah. Ah, very good. Cozy. Yeah, I don't just exile my children to the sofa. Oh, how interesting. Yeah. I don't think my children would want to sleep in the same bed as me. I don't think I want to sleep in the same bed as them. I imagine my son, Bennett, thrashes about and is a nightmare to sleep with. But I don't know, to be honest. the reason we're talking about family is going to become clear in a moment and our rosebud family is complete because there are two significant women in my life in edinburgh one of course is harriet jane the producer who's also the co-star of our show on the edinburgh fringe up memory lane every day at 4 p.m come and see it if you can the other person who's here who does share my bed here at the W Hotel and it is a very capacious bed which she doesn't need because she's so slim and she's younger than springtime even though we have known each other for nearly 60 years it is Michelle.

4:52Oh well am I Michelle I'm not quite sure. You are Michelle and we met on the 6th of June 1968 we married five years and two days later. Yes we couldn't find we couldn't find the stuff we needed to make it happen. So it took quite a long time. I just thought I'd remind you of that. Yeah, it took us five years to get round to it, but we did get round to it. And then we had three children. We now have seven grandchildren. Harriet, how many children do you have? Two. You have two children. So no grandchildren yet. No. So far as you know. In fact, I think we can be pretty certain of that because I've met your delightful daughters.

5:34I say this is a family episode. And we're going to talk about the Rosebud family. I mentioned my dad was born in 1910. My father, Charles Brandreth, born in Hoylake on the Wirral, really, near Liverpool in 1910. My mother was called Alice, Alice Addison. She was born in Royal Pindi, which was then part of British India, but is now a major city in Pakistan in 1914. So it's a long, long time ago, more than a century ago. But they were good people and I loved them very much and I everything to them. Michelle's parents lived into their 80s. Your father was called Alec? He was called Alec, yes, Alec Brown.

6:19Alec Brown. Yes, gave you the opportunity to have something quite simple. Yeah, you're right, because you always found Brandreth a bit of a mouthful. Yes, it was particularly once I met you. And her mother, your mother was called what? Kathleen, Kathleen Kendall. And she was partly from Ireland, which is where my grandfather came from. Kathleen Kendall O'Donovan. That is correct. And one of her claims to fame is that she was the first cousin of a very well-known Irish writer called Frank O 'Connor. Yes, he was very famous and a wonderful performer and writer. Yeah, I mean, I think he's regarded maybe as Ireland's greatest short story writer.

7:01I think the others might be a bit cross to hear you say that. You're right. No disrespect to any other Irish writers. Exactly. Just be careful because they're all very good. When you and I went to Molly, the Museum of Literature in Dublin, there was a big display. Yes. Oh, yes. So from Irish heritage, I used to say that your granny was a nun. I think it was your granny's sister who was a nun. You didn't say my grandfather was a nun, did you? No, actually, it's a very straightforward family. They were lovely people. Harriet has parents as well. And you were born in Devon? Yes, I was born in Torbay Hospital.

7:41And your dad was doing what at the time you were born? Running a restaurant in Dartmouth. He is called Tom Jane. And we, Michelle and I, first came across him, his name, before I met you, because he was for some years the editor of the good food guide he was yeah which was a brilliant publication that we bought every year a new edition of it published by the consumers association the witch people and what made it unique was that it was a guide to good restaurants where the well it was the people who went to the restaurants who wrote reports and then we sent them in to people like your dad for the years he was the editor and he then you know on the basis of what he learned I know he visited a lot of the restaurants himself and wrote the reports.

8:24But he then, so if you took this book, you could rely on it because other people had actually. Yes, given their feedback. Yeah. And your mother, what was her name? Patience. Patience, lovely. And as regular listeners to Rosebud will know, Harriet lost her mum when Harriet was 12, 13? 13. Yeah, and your mum took her own life. We've talked about this a number of times on Rosebud. And I'm mentioning it now because it's relevant to the episode we're going to share with everybody today. Because I think it comes up, you touch upon it in that episode. Oh, yes, I talk about a dream I had about her. Yeah, that's right.

9:03Yeah, and funnily enough, when my mum's parents were naming her, they were choosing between prudence and patience. And they said to each other, she's bound to be the opposite of whatever we call her. And we'd rather have a daughter that was impatient than imprudent. So they called my mum Patience. But given the fact, I've always thought that it's ironic that my mum did take her own life when she was only 42, which is a very impatient thing to do. But she was actually known as Paish. Paish. P-A-I-S-H-E was how she spelt it. Oh, I rather love that. Yeah, Pesh. Well, maybe in the show today, Harriet, because I mentioned your mother in the show.

9:55Well, we talk about her because our show is about memories, particularly about childhood memories. And I often, well, I always mention her name. I might say Patience known as Pesh, or you might remind people that. I think it's rather lovely to have a kind of diminutive and affectionate term. Yes, yeah, yeah. Well, the reason we've talked about family is this. Family is, I think, fundamental. many of the hundreds of guests we've now had on Rosebud over the last three years have talked about the importance of family and we feel that the Rosebud family is important we have had literally many millions of downloads around the world hundreds of thousands of regular listeners but some of them actually belong to something we call the Rosebud family the Rosebud family is our kind of in-house club.

10:45Yeah, you don't have to be actually biologically related to us to join, do you, Giles? The early members were. Oh, were they? Oh, what, me, Michelle, Giles' son. Also, my sister. And the cat. My sister Ginny. Very important, the cat, Giles. You must remember that always. We must remember this. Of course, you don't need to be related to us. the rosebud family is simply the rosebud club it's an opportunity for people who enjoy rosebud to get something extra and the extras include well for a start it's ad-free listening and then we drop an extra special episode on a sunday afternoon rosebud itself comes out on a friday in the middle of the night you can listen to it at two or three in the morning and on a tuesday two or three in the morning.

11:37But this was Harriet's idea. She, as a girl, and maybe even as a grown-up, used to love that Sunday, early evening, late afternoon, Sunday viewing, where you felt you were getting something cosy and warm, but intelligent. You know, those wonderful classic dramas that the BBC used to put out. Something reassuring. And she said, if we do a Sunday episode for the Rosebud family, let's do something that people might like to listen to after sunday lunch maybe they're going for a walk a sunday afternoon walk with the dog or the cat or the lobster there wasn't poet wasn't it called nerval he used to take his lobster had a lead who used to walk his lobster through the streets of paris very sorry for the for the poor thing though to be carried along like that or pushed along anyway the point is on a sunday afternoon we drop this extra episode and what is the extra episode well it varies um and we're really enhancing what people in the club can get from the first of september because rosebud now has been running for three years we're embarking in september on our fourth year and we've decided we must give more value more rosebud more fun more insights more reflections uh to people who enjoy rosebud so if you join the rosebud family now become a club member it costs i suppose the price of a cup of coffee a month you will get this extra episode every sunday afternoon next sunday i'm going to be reading well a short story that i've written in the style of pg woodhouse so i thought for a bit of fun it's the it's august it's coming to the end of August, a bit of summer holiday reading.

13:27But next year, we're going to have every Sunday a different episode. Some will be Harriet and me going on a trip down memory lane. Some will be episodes where we reveal family secrets, and we've revealed quite a few so far. Some will be something that I've been calling the Rosebud Archive, because I've discovered in the basement of our home in London, boxes full of conversations I've had with all sorts of extraordinary people who are no longer here. Funny people like Ronnie Corbett, Leonard Rossiter, the great actor. Extraordinary people like Quentin Crisp, the author of Diary of a Naked Civil Servant.

14:10Remarkable man, a male model, but also such a wit and raconteur. And I thought, oh, maybe I can share some of these with Harriet on a Sunday afternoon and we can talk about those people and then others will be just us really going behind the scenes at rosebud and telling you what's going on is that the idea behind the scenes of rosebud yeah yeah what what did uh john major have in his coffee yeah sugar or artificial sweetener you'll find out on behind the scenes at rosebud i mean i'm sure you can't wait to find that out no but actually he did have a little nip of something to be honest he had a cocktail afterwards he had a and what was interesting Was he drunk?

14:52No, he was not drunk. He was not drunk. He was not even, it was at lunchtime, I think. Oh, my goodness. John Major was drunk during Rosebud. He was not. It was a very special episode, actually. It was. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. But what was lovely was that after it, he invited, we thought he'd just go, get into his car and disappear. But I think he, I hope he'd enjoyed it. And he knows me and he loves Michelle. Yeah. And he said, let's have a drink. Let's unwind over a drink. because if people have listened to the episode, you'll know it's emotional. Yeah, it's such a lovely episode. It was a lovely episode.

15:27And we usually record for about 90 minutes. And we were at Grovenhouse Hotel in London. And what was interesting is this. He went up to the barman and told the barman what the cocktail he wanted was, described the ingredients. And the barman said, oh, I know, Sir John, this is your cocktail. I know the recipe. and he had this cocktail served and i'll put on actually i might put it online today or yes today this afternoon tuesday um the photograph of you michelle and harriet with john major that day because it was a very special day for us so yes we'll be giving you the goss of what goes on behind the scenes so that's the kind of offering that we are going to be giving you uh with the Rosebud family which is as Harriet says it's our special club for people who want that little bit extra more than more they want a little twist of Rosebud on a Sunday afternoon so that's every Sunday plus ad-free listening plus opportunities to meet us and you'll be the first to hear about them we've had quite a few members of the Rosebud family turning up here in Edinburgh haven't we we have yeah it's been fantastic yeah we've had uh people coming all the way from Australia and people coming from Cobra and Hastings via Stansted.

16:47They came up for the day, didn't they? They flew up. They did. Just to see up Memory Lane in Assembly George Square with you and me at four o 'clock. And then they had to fly back. Yeah. But being members of the Rosebud family, we met them afterwards at the meet and greet. And it was such fun to meet them. I mean, they were really lovely people. They were. But do you also remember the Danish family? Yes. A Danish family had come over from Denmark, members of the club, and they look very smart. So the point is, it's a happy family. Yeah. And it's a family united by an interest in what we do on Rosebud, who want that little bit extra.

17:28Yeah. I want us today on More Rosebud to give people a flavor of what it's like to belong to the Rosebud family. Yeah. I did mention that it costs the price of a cup of coffee a month. that does rather depend where you're having your cup of coffee because i think it's 4.99 a month plus vat that's right yeah so that's a cheap cup of coffee and some of the coffee bars i've been to here in edinburgh but quite expensive depending on where you are but that is all it is it's 4.99 per month plus vat yes and to join you go to patreon p online uh via the internet yeah go to patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com forward slash rosebud yes and there it tells you all about it how you join what happens yeah and you can then communicate with us yeah you send us messages yeah there's a chat room there's a chat room and i reply you reply yeah it really is a community and we i think the reason we're excited about this is twofold One, we're embarking on our fourth year and we want to go up a gear, give everybody more of what we like to think of as the Rosebud Magic.

18:41And two, now having met so many Rosebud family members here in Edinburgh personally, I think we really do feel it is family. Yeah, we do. So why don't we give people a flavour of what we gave the Rosebud family this Sunday? Because what was it this Sunday? Was it a trip down memory lane? It was, yeah. And it began because I last week had a couple of nightmares. So I thought I would invite Harriet to join me on a trip down memory lane to recall some of our nightmares, some of our dreams, some of our dreams when we're asleep, but a phenomenon that you describe, which is very interesting, which is a kind of being awake dream.

19:24Yeah, listen to the episode and find out. But before we do, I want to give people a treat. A piece of music. Oh. This is a treat that I was given last week. I went to Virgin Radio in Edinburgh, and they wanted to introduce me to their listeners, and it's a music station, and the presenter said to me, well, Giles, I've written a short song in your honour describing you to people who don't know you. And I thought it might be fun to let you two and everybody who joins us on More Rosebud listen to this little song, which is called Giles and Tribulations. Courtesy of Virgin Radio, here's a little jolly jingle all about Giles.

20:08Cue this music. Giles and Tribulation It's Giles and Tribulation If you're feeling at the mercy of force majeure Call upon a humorist and raconteur When the weight of your worries is too much to bear Seek wisdom from a man famed for colourful knitwear Take some inspiration for some ways to keep your chin up From the favorite biographer of the late Prince Philip Please don't allow your fears and worries to fester Consult the former MP for the city of Chester! You don't need to stand alone when you've got someone to stand with So come on down and stand alongside Mr. Brandet He's everything you need for solace and salvation It's Giles and Tribulations Wow, I love it.

21:03What did you make of that, Michelle? I thought, what on earth am I doing being married to this man? Well, thank you very much, Michelle. And what's your response, Harriet? It's very funny. I love some of the rhymes in it. It's clever. Yeah. Good. Are we going to cue the Rosebud music now? Yes, that was just a little bit of fun for more Rosebud. But what this episode is about, really, is introducing people who don't yet belong to the Rosebud family to what our club is all about. And it's all about getting together, really, on a Sunday afternoon, for permanent ad-free listening, but getting together on a Sunday afternoon for that extra episode.

21:47And this last Sunday, well, we went on a trip down memory lane, reflecting on dreams and nightmares. Just the two of us, Harriet and me, in conversation. Yeah, this is the sort of thing you can get if you join the Roosevelt family and listen on Sunday afternoons. It's just Giles and me usually chatting about nonsense, but it usually ends up being quite funny and quite interesting and surprising, doesn't it? We like to think so. Yeah, and apologies if you're listening to this and you are either Simon Mayo, Jeremy Vine, Prince, luckily RIP, so he can't listen. Prince, Rogers Nelson, the brilliant rock star, or anyone else I've mentioned in this episode in an inappropriate dream situation.

22:43Can I say this is all just stuff that happened in my dreams, not in real life. So Simon Mayo, you're spared any genuine romantic advances from Harriet Jane. Can I say... It was just in my imagination. Can I say, Simon Mayo, dream on. This, I think, is a fun one and it's typical of what we do on a Sunday afternoon. We just get together and we talk. Sometimes we're going down memory lane. Sometimes we're revealing family secrets. Sometimes we're going to be dipping into the archive. Sometimes we're going to be giving you behind the scenes hot gossip of what goes on in the world of Rosebud. This is Giles and Harriet on Dreams and Nightmares.

23:23It's all part of the Rosebud family.

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26:14Hello, I'm Giles Brandreth and I'm not alone. I'm in a hotel in Edinburgh. It's the W Hotel. It's new. It's an interesting hotel. And I'm with my friend and the producer of Rosebud, Harriet Jane. How are you today, Harriet? I'm fine, thanks, Giles. I always love these episodes because they're special episodes for people who belong to the Rosebud family. And somehow I feel they are more intimate because it's just for family members. They'll have to say the number of family members is growing and growing. So it's quite a large family. But I feel sort of, well, quite familiar with them, quite personally engaged.

26:58Or if you're new to a rosebud, for those that don't yet know, until the 30th of August, Harriet and I are appearing in a show called Up Memory Lane in the Fringe of the Edinburgh Festival. The festival's been going since 1947, so is the Fringe. And we're part of it this year, one of 3 ,000 different shows. Charles, I think everyone knows we're doing the Edinburgh Fringe. Every family member knows we're doing it. Most of them have been. Oh, most of them have been. And they certainly know. If they don't, they've been either asleep on a holiday that's lasted about three months or dead. Being asleep is very much part and parcel of what I want to talk to you about today.

27:41But you're right. It's been a treat for us. We've mentioned it quite a lot, Charles. At the show, which we do at four o 'clock every day here on the Edinburgh Fringe. If you don't know, we are in Edinburgh doing a show, you guys. And actually, we're sold out most shows, but people are booking in advance. We're still here until the 30th do come. The point is, after each show, we meet by poster. Tickets available from our website. Absolutely. Well, via our website. Okay. You have to press several buttons, which I hate. But after the show... Well, just email me. I'll get you a ticket. Good. We meet people, don't we?

28:13We do. We do a meet and greet. Yes. And it's quite difficult corralling Harriet because... What? Yeah. I stand, as instructed by the poster, waiting for people to come forward to have their selfies. but harriet who is marvelous i have to say at meeting and greeting is all over the place greeting getting into deep conversations who is it you were talking with yesterday oh johnny merrick i mean he's a member of the rosebud family and he turned up looking so smart if i may say so can i tell you what he was wearing because it is one of my top favorite fabrics i mean i can't believe i've got a top favorite fabrics but i have seersucker please that sounds vulgar what is seersucker seersucker it's american isn't it it feels american i think it must be american um it is striped and it has a kind of text anyway people wear jackets made of it you'll have to google it if you don't know what it is not you i mean family members if you are listening to this as well what's seersucker because i'm not going to describe it very well johnny merrick who is a family member hello johnny and his wife Rebecca is also a family member.

29:22She'd come to the show the day before, but hadn't been able to find us for the meet and greet. But Johnny did. He was wearing a seersucker jacket. And I said to him, this is one of my top favourite fabrics and a sort of straw boater, a straw hat and a pair of a pink shirt and a tie and a lovely pair of trousers. I mean, he looked fabulous. Well, as he said to both of us, his mother would not have approved from going to the theatre, not wearing a tie. And did you notice the tie he was wearing? It was salmon pink and cucumber green. It was lovely. It was the striped tie of the Garrick Club. Oh, he invited me to lunch.

30:02I bet he did. Yeah. It's a lovely club. My father was a member and my son is a member. And for many years, it only had men as members, though now I'm happy to say it has women. I think Judi Dench and Joan Lumley were the first two female members. or maybe Judi Dench and Sian Phillips. Yes, I think it was Sian Phillips. Two graduates of the School of Rosebud. It's a wonderful club, very theatrical, of course named after David Garrick. It has lots of members who are actors or in the theatre business and lots of lawyers, like my father and son were lawyers, journalists. It's pleasantly raffish and it is the beneficiary of a quarter of the estate of A.A.

30:47Milne. Yes. So it's received a lot of money in recent years, thanks to Willy the Pooh, and they've had their fabulous collection of paintings restored. It's the best collection of theatre paintings anywhere in the world. Wow. Hundreds of paintings of great and interesting actors going back two or three hundred years. So when you go for the lunch with Johnny Merrick, make sure he takes you around to see all the pictures. Oh, brilliant. Takes you upstairs. I mean, it is fabulous. I mean, you might be at this lunch as well, Giles. Oh, that would be... I love going there. I mean, I feel guilty because I'm not a member.

31:19My father was keen for me to become a member. And I, perhaps rather pompously, because I was hurtful to him, I said I wouldn't join any club that my wife couldn't be a member of. And those were the days when it was just men only. So I didn't join it. And then my son joined it. And he was part of the brigade of younger people who voted to make it a more inclusive club. but so it has women members as well as men members now. But it's beautiful. It's in Covent Garden in London. So go there. But I, so, welcome. This is a bit of a segue. This is a bit of a segue because I said I wanted to talk about sleep.

31:57Yes. We are in Edinburgh. And for the first time this week, Harriet, this is a trip down memory lane. Up memory lane is the show. Down memory lane is this episode. and I thought, if you agree, we might go down memory lane into the world of our dreams and nightmares. Oh, our subconscious. Is that what it is? Yeah. Is it our subconscious? That's where dreams come from. Really? What? I didn't know that. I know they come from somewhere in the brain. I don't know how they work. I do not know how dreams... You know about the subconscious? Well, no, in a nutshell, what is the subconscious? I mean, God, I'm not a scientist, but I think Freud was the person that really, I mean, Freud was into dreams, wasn't he?

32:42And I think he was the person that kind of identified that there is this level of awareness in your brain that is going on at all times, which you may not really know is happening. And it expresses itself when you're asleep through these incredible dreams that you have. And when you wake up, you go, oh, my subconscious is processing the death of my cat or whatever you happen to have been thinking about. So it simply means something that is sub beneath the conscious. Yeah. According to AI, who I did consult on this. Who's AI? Is he related to Freud? I don't know. I mean, a lot of Freud I thought had been dismissed and ditched.

33:23But I know he wrote a big book on, or was that Jung who wrote a big book on dreams? Oh, they were, I mean, they were all writing about it. They were friends. Well, AI tells me, and you'll agree with this, dreams are vivid mental, emotional and sensory stories created by the brain during sleep. While they can happen at any time, the most intense and memorable dreams occur during rapid eye movement stage of sleep. REM. You know all about this. When brain activity lights up and closely resembles wakefulness. So, you cycle through different stages of sleep all night, from light sleep to deep sleep, and finally to REM sleep.

34:00REM sleep usually starts about 90 minutes after you fall asleep and each REM block gets longer as the night goes on. I didn't know any of this. Did you know this? Yes. Your eyes dart quickly behind closed lids during REM, which is why it's called rapid eye movement. I never knew any of this. And indeed, this sort of is all making things happen in the brain. Electrical signals going up to the cortex. brain chemicals are doing all sorts of stuff emotions are being turned on logic is being shut down yeah which is why i think you know there's a lot of stuff now isn't there about the importance of sleep and sleep hygiene so making sure you get a proper deep sleep because it's in that part of your sleep you know you have to have been asleep for as they say 90 minutes or more and and ideally continuous sleep all night and that they now say this is kind of washing your brain this may explain my problem and may explain the nightmares i'm going to talk to you about because i am now waking up exactly after 90 minutes so you're probably never getting into that occasionally i can do three hours it's always not i mean i could tell you the time when i wake up uh i go to the loo or i lie there brooding and then i try to get to sleep again and it's another 90 minutes and then i wake up oh giles this is difficult and this week i'll share this with you and then I want to hear about, because it was supposed to be going down memory lane, I want to hear about your early dreams.

35:29I had two nightmares this week on the same night. So you did get into your REM sleep. Were they in quick succession or were they after two 90-minute sessions? I don't know. But I know what a nightmare is. I know the origin of the word nightmare. Do you know what it is? No. The night part is indeed night, you know, when we are asleep. And the mare part is not a horse, a female horse, though it could be a female horse. It's an old word, derived from an old word, meaning a monster. So it's a monster that in the tradition of the origin sits on your chest. So the nightmare is a kind of horrific beast sitting on your chest.

36:17And we call it a nightmare. A nightmare, I suppose, is just a version of a dream that's not very nice. Is that correct? I think so, yeah. But take me back. In my time, I suppose I've had sweet dreams. I'm not very conscious of remembering my dreams ever, but I was slightly distressed to get these two nightmares. But before I share those with you, we are on a trip down memory lane. Can you remember the first dreams you had? Can you remember any early dreams? What's your dream story, Harriet? oh uh well i do remember an early nightmare that i had what's the rage for you oh pretty young i think you know four or five or something and i think it was a a dream that preceded me wetting the bed so i do remember that the few times i wet the bed i remember just before you did it you would have a dream in which you were basically going, you were going to the loo and you'd wake going to the loo.

37:20And it was a horrible feeling. You know, it's awful when you wake up the bed, you wake up. Usually I think after a few seconds and you wake up that awful feeling of, oh no. Yeah, what have I done? Yeah. And the, but the dream, I do remember dreaming about a ghost who was wearing spotty underpants and doing a wee. And I was dreaming about this ghost who was actually kind of a fun ghost, a sort of cartoon ghost that was quite funny. But for some reason, it frightened me. I woke up and I was going to the loo and it really stuck in my head and I remember talking about it to people. Like Casper the ghost?

38:06Yeah, a bit like that. I think I invented Casper the ghost because this was before Casper the ghost existed. Oh my goodness, wearing sort of spotted underpants and weeing. It was kind of a cartoon sequence. That's so funny. Yeah, and I woke up and I was doing a pee. I mean, luckily it was in the days when I still had a plastic sheet under my... You remember your mum used to put a plastic sheet, maybe with a terry towelling top on it, but it was plasticised underneath to stop it going through to the mattress. And that would be under your sheet. So your mum would sort of prepare for the fact you might wet the bed.

38:38but um i think i only wet the bed three times or something in my childhood but did you do i remember any sweet dreams from your early childhood no no no i don't think you remember those what about when your mum died when you were 12 13 do you do you have did that lead to having dreams of any kind i think i've only ever had one or two dreams about my mum i'm afraid to say we're not afraid No, I mean, I think. Do you remember? Because doing my little bit of research on AI, forgive me. No, no, you forget it. It's clear that you can forget it moments after it happens. You can. But if I do dream about my mum, I try to remember it, you know.

39:18Yeah. Can you remember any of those and when they were? Well, I mean, I did have one and it wasn't very nice. it was that she came to my door and she was completely wrapped in plastic as if she were a dead body and she said I'm not dead I've been alive this whole time I just haven't I've been in another place and I can't then remember what the conversation was but it was pretty disturbing. I know it's disturbing but it sort of relates to one of the things that I know I've said to you about my dad saying that nobody dies when you're still talking about them, when their name is still alive, they are still alive.

40:04In a sense she was still alive to you in that dream because she was saying, I'm still here. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. But you found it disturbing, not in any sense comforting. It was disturbing. And how old were you in that dream? Oh, that was in my adult life. yeah that maybe that was 15 years ago or something but no I haven't had a lot of dreams about my mom um but I can tell you because I just want to talk about my dreams in general so I think I have three types of dream um which is interesting given the fact this is your subconscious talking so I think my subconscious is largely telling me three things I have one type of dream that is essentially really mundane and organizational and it'll be something like doing the shopping doing a to-do list for what I need to do tomorrow you know it'll be incredibly um sort of quotidian and awful awfully sort of yeah mundane uh so I have those which are probably useful because you're sort of doing organization in your head you wake up thinking oh I must remember to and now they are you in color in this dream yeah sometimes do you see yourself are you doing around the shops with the trolley and wonderful and you see yourself you just see the trolley that you're Oh, I don't know.

41:16I think I see the shelves and yeah. Then I have anxiety dreams. I have a few different types of those. Give me an example. Well, a common one that I have, I haven't had it for a while, but is I'm driving, but I can't see out of the windscreen. I'm down by the pedals, driving the car from the floor of the car, and I don't know where the car's going. So I have that sometimes. I love driving, funnily enough. So yeah, I do have driving dreams where I'm not in control. And then the third type of dream I have, and oddly, these are the most vivid to me, and I've had some really funny ones, are erotic dreams.

42:01Not graphic, but dreams in which I'm in love with someone usually, and possibly something a bit physical is happening, like cuddling or something i think i've talked about this before on the podcast i think i have um and i've had a few which i've woken up and just thought oh god how weird i mean i had one about being on the back of a motorbike being driven by the radio 2 dj simon mayo i vaguely remember this but it's worth saying it again because i mean he's not on radio 2 anymore is he on this rather classic fm greatest hits or something and um i woke up and i was in love with simon mayo for about half an hour because i was on the back of this motorbike with this man i've never thought about in this way i mean i've barely given any thought to simon mayo i'm sorry to say i mean i've listened to him on the radio and he's fine but i woke up and i was i mean i i'd been in this like deeply romantic situation with him where he was riding around on a bike which is quite a masterful thing to be doing and I was on the back and I was holding around his waist and it was just this wonderful feeling of like being taken charge of by this man and um yeah I woke up I was for half an hour I was oh my god I've got a huge crush on the radio 2 disc jockey Simon Mayer what am I going to do about this anyway then it fades out but I've never forgotten it had another one in which I was in a bath with an old friend of mine who I haven't actually seen for years I was at university with this man someone that I had never any sexual feelings for in fact I would say he was relatively unsexual as a person as far as I was concerned I had a dream in which I was in a bath with him goodness a bubble bath deep and he was sitting behind me and covering me in bubbles and i woke up like oh my god i'm in love with x and that was so fun and i was in love with him for about a day after that well did you send him a text no i never got in touch in fact i don't think i've seen him since no i've seen him once since and it was it was kind of i had the thought went through my head i was i've been in a bath with you you didn't tell him that no well i might have done actually because that's the sort of thing i would do but um so that was one and then i quite often have dreams about prince who's someone that i've had a crush on for a long long time and he's very important to me and he's sort of deep in my subconscious and the and then i just explain that why is he deep in your subconscious why is he important to you i got into him at a formative time which is when i was 13 and i think that's a very formative time obviously it's a very formative time for music so i think the music or the films you're into at that age in fact there's research into this they remain the things that you think of as the best things and you will then say to people oh the best time in music was the 80s and you'll say that forever because that was when And for you, the music was speaking and, say, being the most significant.

45:21And whatever you, Giles, were into at that age will remain the thing that you think that's the best literature or the best plays. During my AI work, I discovered that erotic dreams can begin at about the age of 13, 14. Well, I think younger for some boys. Well, maybe. For boys, wet dreams apparently begin around that time. Puberty. Puberty and there's emissions of semen and all of that. But what interested me in AI is I had no idea of this. Girls also have exact equivalent at the equivalent age. They have mini orgasms in their teens. Crumbs. Which I hadn't realised that. No, nor had I, no. Well, except there you are.

46:03Well, I wasn't. I mean, I was just having like romantic dreams. Well, I think sharing a bath and having bubbles. Oh, no, that was when I was an adult. oh no that was that's 10 years ago or something oh i see only the other day oh yeah i mean that was with someone i met at university it was long before long after puberty um so the balance of them a lot romantic dreams yeah the balance of your dreams is what what would you say i mean 80 erotic no i'm joking um oh who knows because you also as you've said you have loads of dreams that... Yeah, apparently you're having dreams all the time. Of course, yeah.

46:39And it's only a handful that you will recollect. Yeah, I mean, you have... I think you obviously have lots of dreams you completely forget. You have other dreams that you remember very clearly at the moment of waking. And I often have this where I think, gosh, that was amazing. And you think, I must remember that. And if you were Freud, you'd immediately write it down in your book. Yeah, some people do keep a dream diary. Yeah, but I don't. And then I forget it. I mean, do you think these dream diaries are helpful? is interpreting dreams in your view, I mean, we are totally lay people. We know nothing about this.

47:09I certainly know absolutely nothing. You clearly know a little bit more. Is it useful to keep a record of your dreams? Is it helpful to analyze them? Or are they just sort of things that happen? I mean, everybody, I assume, everybody I know has both erotic dreams that you've mentioned and anxiety dreams. I'm not sure that I've met other people who have keeping things in order dreams, though in a sense that's almost related to anxiety it's sort of anxiety about daily life getting things done making your list ticking your box so um is there value do you think in recording those and interpreting them i mean i think it would definitely be of interest to look back at your dreams um do you need to interpret them i mean it's definitely telling you something about what's going on in your brain and that is interesting you know your subconscious is interesting because it must be informing your thoughts and your your actions and your feelings do you have a recurring nightmare no i used to have quite a lot of bad dreams about losing my teeth which i looked up i did look up the meaning of that tell me well it's apparently a fear of death but then it also said it could be just a fear of losing your teeth and oddly it was happening at a time where my teeth were not in a great place and so I realized oh it was no longer in your mouth that's always a problem yeah it was literally just a dream about being worried about dentistry and as soon as I sorted them out I stopped having those dreams so I think it was literally just related to dental anxiety yeah what about you well my recurring nightmare i'm in a kind of aeroplane though i'm not conscious of the aeroplane i'm simply flying and we are flying quite high through very narrow spaces so that are we're just getting through holes we're just missing other aeroplanes we're just going between skyscrapers we're sweeping swooping down swooping up it's terrifying but we survive uh i mean i'm not good on airplanes as you know because we've been on an airplane together uh and i get frightened i mean i'm i'm better than i used to be so i suppose it's partly to do that but it's when it begins i know in my head i've just got to go through with this and it will come to an end but it's essentially flying in a machine through other narrow spaces and they're all objects the other spaces yeah metallic objects or they are mountains or they are and and on we go on we keep going and more of them come more barriers and yet on we go so that's my recurring don't watch top gun maverick with tom cruise i certainly would terrify you so that sort of thing That's the final sequence.

50:14Yeah, they have to fly through some, you know, canyon or whatever. Yeah, it's that sort of thing. Yeah, you'd hate it. So that's that. I think I did after university or at university, I had nightmares about exams. Oh, classic. I have those. Did you have those? I still have those. Oh, you still have those? Yeah, you know, either missing an exam or turning up, realizing you've done no revision at all. Yeah, a lot of people still have exam dreams. Yeah. the two dreams i had this week um i mean they're very easy to interpret they were the nightmares i had this week that prompted this conversation are both obvious ones the first one i i'm assuming well let me tell you what it is and you can tell me what it is um but i think it's very obvious i am with a doctor and uh we and he's an old doctor he's got a beard i mean he may even look a bit like freud he's an old gnarled doctor and he is an oncologist yeah we're talking cancer so and of course that's not nice my my father died of cancer my two sisters died of cancer a lot of cancer in my family as there is in many families um so that's an obvious fear at my age anyway i'm with this old gnarled doctor and we then go through a door and he's taking me out into the street just chatting to me and taking me out you know I've just been for a test and I'm walking through a ward and in the ward are cots and in these cots as he is chatting to me I glance down and I pass I think three or four cots in which there are other old men looking like the doctor they are fully clothed they are in the fetal position and they clearly have got terminal cancer.

52:04They're all lying there looking like death. And then I emerge with the doctor the other end and wake up. And I think, oh, I'm going to share this. It's Harriet. Then the same night, either in the next bout of 90 minutes sleep, I had a lighter dream, but an anxiety dream. You know my friend Fanola? Your physio, this is. My physiotherapist. Fanola Burrell is a very noted physiotherapist. And she and I are writing a book together, which is coming out later in the year, called The Seven Secrets of the Hundred Year Life. And she's based in Switzerland with her husband and her baby Oscar, to whom we've dedicated the book.

52:50Oh, how lovely. Actually, it was my idea, because Oscar is nought years old. Yeah. And I thought, if he lives to be 100, he can thank his mum for this. And maybe even me. That's nice. So we've dedicated the book to Oscar, age zero, and it's about living to be 100. And Phanella and I are very good friends. And we talk regularly when I'm doing my exercise class on Zoom with her. She's in Switzerland. I'm here doing my, you know, stretches, trying to get to grips with my bad back, which is brought upon entirely by stress. Anyway, this is the dream. Fanola is organizing a party and I'm helping organize the party and everything goes wrong.

53:33The food doesn't arrive. The drink isn't very nice. The flowers we'd planned look ridiculous on the table. Not all the guests who are invited come. In fact, most of them don't come. The ones that do come are the wrong guests. Essentially, I'm doing something for Fanola and I'm letting her down and her party is not a success oh dear so i then wake up so there are my two dreams one is obvious it's about death fear of cancer and of course listeners uh dear members of don't worry i i'm a regular person i have every checkup that is going etc i'm really on the ball with that i'm on this morning i'm the ambassador for all these things you name it uh my prostate is probably the most over-tested prostate in the world.

54:24Everything that could be tested is tested. So it's not that, but it is obviously fear of death, awareness of cancer, it's quite obvious stuff. And the anxiety dream involving Phenola, well, that's just an anxiety dream, but it's quite intriguing. And I haven't been conscious of having nightmares for a while. And do you remember any childhood dreams or nightmares? Now, my childhood nightmare, I did remember one the other day. And yes, I think I did have a childhood dream based on the Wizard of Oz. Oh. And the Wicked Witch who's on the bicycle. Oh, she's terrifying. And basically the dream is you, lucky you, on a motorbike with Simon Mayo.

55:13Yeah. Exactly. Absolutely. And you're holding on to him, not clinging on to him. No. I'm on the bicycle with the Wicked Witch of the West. Oh, dear. Yeah, exactly. Gosh. And we are going along and I'm holding on for dear life. Well, you would be. You would be. She cycles like a maniac. She cycles like a psycho. Yeah. Run. Because, of course, I saw the film several times as a child. I loved the film. It's brilliant. Like everybody of my generation fell in love with Judy Garland. I mean, it was just magic. Also, for me, it's a great film. It's such a great film. Because it reveals what life is all about.

55:53At the end of that film, when she goes to see the mighty Oz, and the curtain is pulled back, and you see it's just a fat, late middle-aged man turning her handle. There is nothing behind the curtain. That tells you all you need to know about life for the rest of your life. So that was my childhood nightmare, I think. So what happened? You're just cycling along with her. That's the whole dream. That does sound frightening. Until you wake up. Well, there may have been more to it, but that's all I remember, is the cycling with that terrifying, with her cackling, and me screaming on the back. She really is frightening in that film, isn't she?

56:35She's so frightening. When she's dispatching the flying monkeys, is it that same witch? Yeah, exactly. I think there's only one Wicked Witch in it. Yes, I think there is. That's why I've never really been able to buy into the spin-off of Wicked. I know people love all the Wicked's, but I go for the great original. I saw the musical of Wicked and it didn't do much for me. I found out it didn't do much for Michelle. And I haven't seen the film.

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57:49is it possible to induce dreams well there are people that um do this thing called lucid dreaming tell me about this well i think it's where you you yes you sort of are able somehow to control your dreams for example you could wake up in a dream and then make yourself go back to sleep and go into it some more I think there are people that maybe can do that I mean I can't do that yeah so I don't know you've got to have some sort of real control over your subconscious I guess I mean the only thing I've done which I think is was a strange experience and was a bit like wakeful dreaming was I think so when I had that therapy about five years ago where I was with this brilliant woman, Dr.

58:44Maya Jankowska, my therapist. She did this thing with me called brain spotting, where she would, and my eyes were involved, she'd get me to look at a certain point on this special quilt she had behind her. And she'd get me to visualize, or she would just say, what are you thinking? What are you thinking? And weirdly, I was having sort of visions. and a lot of them were about my mum because I'd gone to her saying I wanted to try and um just deal with some of the sadness I was feeling about my mum at that point and looking for closure I was just I was just really missing my mum you know understandable and I'd never had therapy before um and I was brooding a lot about my mum at that point thinking about her a lot crying a lot missing her a lot feeling angry a lot with various people and it was bothering me it was getting in the way of my life you know so I went to her to try to deal with some of this and she was very helpful and one of the things she did obviously she did lots of just letting me talk but then she quite quickly after about two sessions said we're going to start doing this thing called brain spotting where she'd get me to look on this cloth and tell me what I was thinking tell her what I was thinking and I was having these visions which seemed to just happen involuntarily and they got more and more elaborate and they became like waking dreams of my mum and you know no I you know I said to you I'd rarely dreamt of my mum sleeping but I had these vivid visions of her during these therapy sessions which were so wonderful and healing um in which I was with my mum in sometimes imaginary places like what I would describe as heaven you know we would be in a sort of spiritual plane in this amazing meadow lit by beautiful sunlight holding a hand she was washing me in one of them peeling these layers off my chest with a bucket of water and a sponge really gently washing me that was so lovely there was another in which I invited her into my home my home as it was then sat her at my kitchen table and showed her hundreds of photographs of my children and she sat and looked at these photographs it was so lovely and I sat with her and showed her pictures of my children which was the most lovely experience because she never obviously my mum never met my children or saw me even as an adult and how much of this was prompted by the therapist none she would just say tell me what you're you know now she'd say she'd direct my eyes she identified basically we identified at the beginning of these sessions a part of the cloth the direction that my eyes would move when I felt sad and a direction my eyes would move when I was thinking more positively sad was on the left positive was on the right it's weird um um and but in the end we were able to just go into these visualizations really easily she was not saying anything I mean she'd just say what are you thinking and and she does she did something similar to me recently when I was having this thing called EMDR which is similar it's eye movement thing but it's similar to what you're doing when you're asleep I guess trying to simulate that um and again i'd be having vision waking visions and it surprises me how easy it is to have these things stream of consciousness as you yeah because you're speaking out loud so she can hear you yeah but you're focusing on the image she's asked you to focus on so you're not looking at her no no and then all your eyes closed sometimes you close your eyes and all these things and it just comes the words come tumbling out and you're not as it were painting the picture in the sense of thinking through, I'm going to say this.

1:02:43You're just saying what's in your head. No, no, it's just I'm thinking these things. How wonderful. I mean, recently she was saying to me, where are you? And I'd be like, I'm crouching down in the corner of my parents' sitting room and I'm listening to them arguing on the front door. You know, I'd feel it really vividly. Yeah. Anyway, these waking visions I had of my mum were so amazing and really helped me to feel much better about my mum. I haven't felt in that way that I was sad, missing, longing since. I felt totally comforted by them to the point where I started to feel my mum was around me all the time.

1:03:27I'd be driving my car and I'd feel she was in the passenger seat. Or I'd be able to just sort of turn to her and say, oh, hi, mum. Yeah, I felt her presence. I it's Maya said to me you've allowed your mum back into your life she was there she was waiting and you've allowed her to come back yeah so it was so brilliant so I recommend to anyone who's grieving to try something like either brain spotting or EMDR with a really good person like Maya because it is very powerful and for me was incredibly helpful. We might invite family members, or indeed anyone who hears this, if they've had similar experience, as good as yours, or maybe even not good, to share by writing.

1:04:20Would that be a good idea? Yeah, definitely. And it's hello at rosebudpodcast.com. dot com yeah similar as that hello and i think that is really similar to dreaming i mean you're awake but you're accessing somehow you're going into your subconscious or yeah it's very very cool it's often said because you have real people both in this obviously this living dream because you're awake but also in your sleeping dreams real people have appeared to you um i don't think many real people appear to me in my dreams. Oh. I mean, it used to be said that everyone dreamt of the Queen, the late Queen Elizabeth II.

1:04:57Oh, I'd love that. There used to be, there was in fact a book done called Dreaming About the Queen. Oh. With hundreds of accounts of people from all over the world, not just the British Isles, but all over the world, the Commonwealth, people vividly dreaming about either meeting the Queen or being with Elizabeth II. Oh. And interestingly, the same phenomenon has not occurred, apparently, in the reign of King Charles. I bet a lot of people have dreamt of Diana though That'd be interesting I'm sure I mean you remember what happened after she died You know the connection people apparently felt with her So I'm sure people dream about her No it doesn't surprise me Lots of people haven't been dreaming about King Charles But maybe we will now I might have an erotic dream about King Charles Well why not Yeah I can imagine being in a bubble bath with him Yeah exactly Well, why not?

1:05:52Now you mentioned it, what is interesting to me is that in all my dreams, I don't think any of my family appears. I don't think people. I don't think. And if I have had erotic dreams as a child or even more recently, I think if I've identified the other people, they will have been fantasy characters or characters from my sort of library of fantasy rather than real people. Yeah. It's a fascinating world, this of dreams, isn't it? Absolutely fascinating, yeah. But I think it is true. I mean, I have to say I've got the odd person in my life who likes to tell me their dreams in quite a lot of detail.

1:06:36Oh, no. There's one person in particular who has quite vivid dreams, quite a lot. Who is this? Man, woman? They shall remain nameless. and they tell me their dreams. And I do often think, you know, it's a truism, isn't it? There's nothing more boring than someone else's dream. I mean, I know we've spent 40 minutes talking about our dreams, so maybe, sorry if people have found that boring. It can be a bit boring. It's not boring because it's triggering, I hope, in people, recollections of their own dreams. I hope so. And we have been going down memory lane. Yeah, but it can be a bit boring listening to other people's dreams.

1:07:11Yeah. I think people think they're interesting because they're interesting to you you the person that's had it it's fascinating um but to other people a sort of blow-by-blow account of your dream i don't i think once in a while if it's simon mayo on a motorbike that's fun indeed i mean i thought that was fun um but yeah the blow-by-blow account of your dream keep it to yourself write it in your dream diary don't either talk about it on the rosebud podcast or tell your friend about it in detail because they're probably bored i don't agree with that i think do write about it to the rosebud podcast we do want to hear from you we want your erotic dreams your anxiety dreams an erotic dream about giles well you do know that jeremy vine the radio 2 oh we've got to talk about this yeah had a dream about us yes i bumped into him By chance I haven't seen him for a while.

1:08:08Jeremy Vine, if you're one of our international listeners, is a very well-known British radio and TV presenter. He's got his own show on Channel 5, his own show on Radio 2 on the BBC. Yeah, he probably knows Simon Mayo, doesn't he? Absolutely. They may be having dreams about each other. Who knows? They may. Anyway, I was at a lunch the other day and hadn't seen Jeremy for a while. We are friends. We sat down. There was somebody. Oh, in fact, sitting next to, between us, was Patricia Hodge, who's soon going to be a guest on Rosebud. That's by the by. All rose leads back to Rosebud. Anyway, he leant forward and said, oh, I had a dream about you, Giles, and Harriet.

1:08:48And he said, I had to rescue you from the building in the dream. And I thought, oh, my God, the dream was a building on fire. What was happening? I don't know, no, no. He said, you were on the balcony, and I had to bring you to safety. as though we were about to jump off the balcony. Anyway, we were saved by Jeremy Vine. Unfortunately, it was a lunch, and there were lots of other people there, so I couldn't say to him, why do you think this happened? Why are we occurring in your dreams? Yeah. What's going on? Fascinating. And somebody else thinking they've got to save us. Yeah, fair enough. I mean, anyone listening would be thinking that.

1:09:31From ourselves? Yeah. Well, not from a blazing building, from a balcony. They can hear the stress coming over the airway. Well, I'm the fellow who's waking up. I mean, doing Rosebud, doing a show with you, and I'm waking up in Edinburgh having nightmares. Well, Jeremy Vine can clearly tell that we're in some emotional and psychological distress. We are. We're in turmoil. I mean, I have to say, just to go back to my, clearly, my obsession. I'm sorry anyone listening can think Harriet Jane's got a one-track mind. it's the romance track because jeremy vine could easily have been a subject of one of my dreams my romantic dreams i'm going to call them romantic dreams not erotic dreams romantic dreams that's what they are because they're different i mean there is a phenomenon of the erotic dream this is not that these are not dreams as you say that would lead to no they are dreams in which i'm in love and there might be some physical contact but it's it's very light you know it's intimacy rather than but that if i may say so is also what you love and seek yeah so what what i was going to say is it amazes me i haven't had one of these about jeremy vine because in the past i have had months in which i've been obsessed with jeremy vine because i used to listen to him on radio to every lunchtime when my children were small and i became incredibly invested in his lunchtime show.

1:10:58Do you know him now? No, but I met him once at an awards ceremony and slightly embarrassed myself by bowing down in front of him. You know, like you would do in front of a salam. A salam. Yeah. I bowed down three times and kissed his feet because I said, Jeremy Vine, you are one of my all time heroes. And the people I was with afterwards said, Harriet, that was so embarrassing why did you do that i just got overtaken by excitement i prostrated myself in front of jeremy vine he took it like a man and was gracious probably thought who is this absolute lunatic and little did he know 10 years later he'd be having a dream about me throwing myself off a building i mean it wasn't just about you no it was about us no but you weren't bowing down in front i'm just saying no no but the good news is i do know him he's genuinely a friend of mine i have his mobile number and i shall be texting him i don't know if he's a member of the rosebud family well he must be i don't think he is and he may not be a member of the family but he knows about us otherwise why was he dreaming about us no he won't have heard this um but i will be texting him not to tell him about this but to invite him would you like him to be a guest on Rosebud?

1:12:17OMG, yeah, I'd love it. What does MG mean? OMG. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, OMG. I will arrange for us to have Jeremy Fine as a guest on Rosebud. Oh, dear, I don't know if I could cope with that. And we will both, as he arrives in the room, prostrate ourselves, see if it prompts any memories. Oh. See if he can recall. No, he won't remember that. Well, I might say to him in the course of the interview, obviously you attract fans and over the years because you're you're tall you're handsome you're a nice guy you come over as a nice guy yeah and a wise person who doesn't flaunt it he's a sensible serious-minded interested curious individual he's got a fun sense of humor that's of course he's got he's got a brother who is a very successful comedian oh yeah tim um yeah you You know, the man who originated the line, Velcro, it's a rip-off.

1:13:12That's Tim Vine. So Tim Vine and Jeremy Vine are two remarkable. Maybe show them as brothers. Maybe have a pair of them coming together. They're quite different. They seem quite different. They're physically different as well. One is shorter and a little rounder of face. The other is, well, the other is Jeremy Vine. The other is devastatingly handsome. Good. I will get him for you. I will bring, this is how we're going to bring this family episode to a close. I'm going to bring Harriet Jane's dreams to life. Oh, dear. I'm pleased to tell you that my passion for Jeremy Vine has waned over the years.

1:13:45So it'll be fine. If you invite him on, I'll be able to, I'll cope. But it may be reviving. No. I mean, who knows? It's been and gone. No, I don't think so. And we'll maybe do it here where if, is there a bath we could get the bubbles going in? There's certainly a shower. I will get that to happen. So I'm going to bring your dreams to life. Please do not bring my nightmares to life. I don't want any more anxiety dreams. I don't want any more depressing dreams about death. Oh, no, that was a horrible one. I don't think I can recall a sweet dream for half a century. My trip down memory lane has not included sweet dreams.

1:14:25I have sweet dreams that I conjure up in my head as I'm going to sleep, and maybe I'm having them and I don't remember them. But I've really enjoyed our conversation, Harriet. It's wonderful. Thank you for being a member of the family. We love you. We're actually very excited about the family and we're growing it. So do please spread the word. Join us on Rosebud Reflections if you do Facebook. Oh, yeah, it's really good. You know, we've got 4 ,000 members of Rosebud Reflections. Well, that is fantastic. And we have 100 plus thousand members of us on Instagram, don't we? Well, any old person can follow you on Instagram.

1:15:05But I feel the Facebook Rosebud Reflections people are true lovers of the Rosebud podcast. If you are following us on Instagram, we do not regard you as any old person. No, but there's 100 ,000 of you. Yeah, I know. But there are millions of people who hear the podcast around the world. That's true. But, yeah, thanks for following us anywhere. I mean, other than through the streets of Edinburgh in the dark. That's a bit menacing. Don't do that. But we have had people following us in the streets. Yeah, I have. Speak for yourself. I do speak for myself. They've been following me, chasing me, asking me.

1:15:33Yes. Oh, I don't get that, thank goodness. Well, we've had a few people actually asking for autographs, old school people, but mostly asking for selfies. Yeah, I don't get much of it. You do. Can I say... Giles can't walk along the street without someone coming up to him. Yeah, but they also want you as well. They say, oh, is that Harriet? No, by the poster they want me because they recognise me there, but they don't... When I'm just walking down the road, they don't... But people are beginning to recognise you, aren't they? No. People do. They are. If you're listening to this, no, he's exaggerating.

1:16:00they love your voice I love your voice I love your presence I think you're brilliant there'll be oh next week on our lovely time with you here we're going to be having me and Harriet I'm going to be reading some of my PG Woodhouse spoof as a bit of summer fun because we've finished the candlelight murders and we're going to have a week just in August of me doing a bit of PG Woodhouse And then come September, we're going to be doing something new for Rosebud family members. So stay tuned. It'll just be the two of us, but we hope you will enjoy it. I've enjoyed this very much. We enjoy having you there.

1:16:39Thank you for enjoying Rosebud. You're the best. Cue the music.

1:17:04Thank you.

1:17:30Thank you.

1:18:01Thank you.

1:18:27Thank you.

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