More Rosebud: First memories from John Humphrys, Dame Jacqueline Wilson and more...

0:00Every Tuesday, more Rosebud. That's Rosebud but with a difference Rosebud with a twist Rosebud with interviews With letters from you With emails even And with pages from my diary Expect the unexpected On more Rosebud every Tuesday And on Friday Expect classic Rosebud Household names If they're in the news They're on Rosebud This is the place where people come To share their very first memories With us and with you Cue the music

0:51Welcome to Rosebud. This is more Rosebud. and Harriet Jane, my producer and I, we are in the Stratton Suite at Grosvenor House, which is a hotel, but more than a hotel, it's a way of life on Park Lane in London. You may think that my saying that is because they give us money to say things like that. They don't, but they do give us wonderful hospitality. They do. And we love being at this hotel because so many interesting people have been through it. Do you know what we should do one day, Harriet? Have I ever taken you to the room downstairs, the little private dining room they have here? where on the walls are photographs of people who have been in that room, which range from Barack Obama to Walt Disney and to Muhammad Ali.

1:34Wow. Yeah, very much a kind of Rosebud cast list. Yes. Which is good. Very good. So, anyway, I like it here. And you're looking good, if I may say so. Thank you. I say, if I may say so, because now it's not really the done thing for an older man, which I am let's accept that to pay a compliment to a younger woman people think it's a bit I'm not sure they can do that sort of thing any longer what do you think about that? I'm pretty relaxed about it it's nice to get compliments isn't it? I think I take them from anywhere I can get them it's funny you say you're an older man well I've just said a birthday so I don't think of you like that actually thank you I'm glad because when people say to me how old are you I say younger than springtime am I it's a good line it's a good line from a song and I like saying it partly because in my head I really don't feel any different my wife will say well that's because you haven't really matured you aren't any different you're just as you were when I first met you and I do feel very like I felt when I did meet my wife on the 6th of June 1968 oh that's my birthday really the 6th of June well we were live in 68 No.

2:50Exactly. So you weren't even born. So I met my wife before you were even a twinkle in your parents' eyes. That's true. That is extraordinary. But on my birthday, which is a good day, it's a lovely time of year, isn't it? It's a good time of year. But to be honest with you, in my head, I feel just as I felt then. Sometimes that is challenging because my wife is extremely physically fit because she has exercised always. Right. I have taken my body for granted. And therefore, I'm not as fit as I would like to be. I try to do the exercises that my physiotherapist encourages. And I do usually succeed when I'm performing.

3:32She says, why don't you pretend you're performing all the time and pull the string up above your head? Look down on the world. Just improve your posture. Improve your gait. Walk with purpose. So I do try to do all the right things. I don't feel, to be honest, any different at all. Now, we've got some amusing people that we're going to give you a moment or two with today, Rosebud listeners. As you know, more Rosebud on a Tuesday is a little bit different. One week we do a bit of diaries, the next week we meet some interesting people. And I am involved in a magazine which has a title that my wife loathes.

4:07The magazine is called The Oldie. Now, before I took you to The Oldie lunch not long ago, Had you heard of The Oldie? I had. I hadn't ever really read it. But is it just for older people? Or can anyone enjoy it? It was founded by Richard Ingrams, who was the founder editor of Private Eye. And when he left Private Eye, he thought, I'll start a magazine with a focus for older people. In fact, Graydon Carter, a great international magazine editor, described The Oldie recently as the best magazine in the world. and I bumped into Stephen Fry, another Rosebud alumnus the other day and he said, I'm just reading the oldie.

4:49It is an incredibly good magazine, isn't it? It's like a mixture. There was a magazine called Punch years ago which was a humorous magazine, had lots of cartoons. This is often humorous. There are often lots of cartoons. It's a mixture of that and The Spectator. It's literary. It's what's interesting in life. Yes. It's a bit of everything. It's a little bit of everything. Very good writers in it. you know people like craig brown a.n wilson great columnists in it i do a monthly column and have done for quite a while now it's a monthly magazine i've just done my hundredth column for them so but michelle says oh god it's called the oldie i don't want you to be associated with something called the oldie it sounds like a sort of intellectual the one show in magazine form okay okay well we'll go along with that but it is like the one show in the sense that everything is in there.

5:40You can find everything. And every year we have an awards ceremony for people who, basically, the criterion is you have to have snap in your celery. They're older people who've still got snap in their celery. So they've got to be in their 70s, 80s, 90s. I think the oldest person we ever gave an award to was Olivia de Havilland. And she couldn't come. She was in Paris. So Michelle, my wife and I, we went to Paris to give her the award. And she was then the only living member of the cast of Gone with the Wind. And we went to her apartment in Paris and there she was sitting looking gorgeous. She had champagne and canapé ready for us and her two Oscars on the mantelpiece behind.

6:24We talked about Gone with the Wind. I also talked to her about the film she'd made with Errol Flynn. And she said, Giles, be sure to tell them this. 16 films with Errol Flynn, not one night with Errol Flynn. Just make sure your readers and your listeners know that. Whatever the truth of the matter, and you'll find plenty of biographies that tell you that there were many nights with Errol Flynn and Olivia de Havilland together, she denied it all. So I don't know the truth of the matter. Though I do know that Lionel Blair, in about 1950, had a summer romance with Errol Flynn's wife. When they were all in Spain, they went to watch the bullfighting.

7:10And guess who the party comprised? Lionel Blair, the choreographer. Do you remember him? I do. Younger listeners, I should explain. Give Us a Clue. A great dancer and a very amusing man. Not many people know that he was also Tony Blair's dad. That's by the by. Lionel Blair on holiday with Mrs. Edel Flynn and, wait for it, Ernest Hemingway. Oh, no. Yes. Really? Yes. Yes. That's so odd. I'm really sad that we didn't begin doing Rosebud years ago because so many of these lovely people we'd like to have talked to, like Ernest Hemingway and Lionel Blair, but we must get his boy Tony Blaine. Yes, Tony Blair, Lionel Blair's son.

7:54To ask him about the good old days and give us a clue with Ernest Hemingway. But you never know, strange things do happen. So we went to this lunch. The Old Year of the Year lunch. The Old Year of the Year lunch, where people were being awarded prizes for having snap in their celery. It means people who are ripe for years, but still are contributing, still have got something to give. and while I was helping organise the awards, you and your recording machine travelled around the room and you met some intriguing people. I did. Who did you meet? I met John Humphreys. Oh. Jacqueline Wilson. Oh, the novel, The Children's Writer.

8:32Yep, The Children's Writer. John Humphreys. He was the, is he as grumpy as he seems? He was actually very, very nice. Yeah, he's not grumpy at all, is he? No. He was the presenter of the Today programme for many years and did Mastermind on television. Yep. Used to read the news. I know him exactly. Yes. Anybody else? Arlene Phillips. The choreographer. Another choreographer. Now, yes. Was she the choreographer who used to be on Strictly Come Dancing? She did. And then felt that for ageist reasons, they booted her up and somebody else replaced her. Well, yeah. Anyone else? Oh. Yes. You're going to say Nanette Newman.

9:06I'm going to say, well, I was going to say the woman that did a skydive at age 102. Oh, yes. the 102-year-old skydiver. Yeah. Wow. Can't believe I met her. Yeah. She's the lady. I remember reading in the papers, she said, don't imagine when you reach 80 or 90 that everything's all over, because it isn't. So these are the people you chatted to. Yeah. Nanette Newman was there, you know, because she has a son-in-law who is the same age as her. Oh, yes, I remember, yeah. And we gave them both an award. John Standing, wonderful actor, still working, now 90. Nanette Newman, wonderful actress. most famous I suppose for doing those fairly liquid advertisements ah yes but she was married to the film director Brian Forbes and frankly is as beautiful as ever she looked amazing she really did look amazing didn't she I mean it's not just us saying it in a patronising way she really looked gorgeous I mean she looked much younger than her son-in-law well to be honest she did she did sorry yeah but you're right both 90 but she looked considerably younger Also there, but I hope you didn't talk to him, was Bill Wyman.

10:16I didn't talk to him. Because Bill Wyman, who I've known for quite a while, indeed going back to the 70s, a Rolling Stone for a while, and now a musician in his own right, a very interesting character, I thought he'd be a good Rosebud guest. And I asked him and he agreed. So he's something to look forward to. And he made you cry that day, I remember. He did. He talked about his mother. I'll cry at the drop of a hand. I don't think John Humphreys would make me cry, though he is very funny. John Humphreys. Let's start with John. Renowned, of course, on Radio 4. He was on today. He was superb. And did you ask him about his first memory?

11:00Yes. So I've asked all of these people about their first memory. And I think in his case, it left him with a lifelong feeling of anger. It's actually very sad. I think this will make you cry, Giles. It's a very sad story. This is broadcaster journalist John Humphreys. I'm afraid it's a very, very sad one. Often is the case, I find, if you talk to people about their early years, it's the sad bits that have the prominence. And in my case, I was, I think, five, and I had been sad. We were very poor, our family. But Fridays was a sort of luxury food day because we had fish and chips from the local fish and chip shop.

11:43And we had enough money, which we didn't always, but sometimes. Anyway, we did on this occasion. I was sent out to buy them. Went to fish and chip shop nearby, came back with the fish and chips. And there was a car outside our house, most unusual. None of the street had a car. And inside was a doctor. And my mother was weeping. And my father was in a state. the doctor was telling my parents that my little sister, Christine, who wasn't yet one year old, had died. She was in hospital. She'd been taken there with a not desperately serious illness, as far as I can remember, but of course at the time I knew nothing about it at all, far too young.

12:29Sort of gastroenteritis thing. But part of the reason I remember it is I've built it into a sort of I've created a great deal of anger around it I don't know whether I felt the anger at the time no I didn't I mean I was five I knew nothing all I knew was that my mother was in a very strange state and that nobody wanted the fish and chips and I couldn't believe this I was standing with them in their newspaper wrapped in the newspaper and nobody was unthinkable that nobody wanted the fish and chips but of course they had other things to think about and what was what what made me has since made me, continues to make me I become angry every time I think about it was that nobody, the hospital had not thought to tell my parents because visiting hours was one hour a day and that was it and nobody had thought to tell my parents that Christine was in a bad condition and maybe they should go in so that they could at least hold her hand while she was dying and anyway you shouldn't die from gastroenteritis and I just put it down to the fact that we were poor and you know what the hell you know and I've never lost that and I've never lost the memory I remember the memory so clearly standing there and watching my mother's hair something else I remember very vividly she had beautiful black hair and it went white almost literally overnight and of course she never recovered from it you don't do recover from a little the death of your youngest so that I'm afraid is my memory and it is as vivid with me today as it was all those years ago Thank you John

14:34Harriet, we've had a number of children's authors, haven't we, on Rosebud? I remember particularly Michael Rosen, who was wonderful, fascinating. Jacqueline Wilson was at this lunch. She was. Much loved, best-selling author. Is she now Dame Jacqueline Wilson? I think so. I think she is. We have an awful lot of dames on the show. We do. But, you know, what can we do? Can't move for dames. Absolutely. The story of Tracy Beaker. That's famous, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's her bestseller. And a lot of these have been made into TV shows. And yeah, my kids read them. Okay. Hetty Feather. That I remember too.

15:17Anyway, Jacqueline is going to tell... What's she talk about with you? Well, let's discover maybe. Let's just listen to her. Jacqueline Wilson. She's the one with the great, wonderful earrings she wears. Yeah, I think she had quite an unhappy childhood, actually. Oh. But this memory is a happy one. Jacqueline, what's your very first memory? My very first memory is sitting on the living room carpet with a book of nursery rhymes on my lap. I liked this book. We had hardly any books. Bizarrely, there was a history book that my parents thought might be good for me later on. Barely past toddlery. but I looked at the book of nursery rhymes and I wanted one of them to read it to me and they said for goodness sake we've read it umpteen times you know just just amuse yourself with it so I couldn't always remember the rhymes they were very quirky so I looked at all these illustrations and I made up my own stories actually saying them saying the two children walked up and up and up the hill and they had a big bucket of sweets and apparently you know my parents who were odd parents but did actually repeat this cringy little anecdote to me as I grew up greediness as well as book loving Jacqueline Wilson there and also being honoured by the oldie was the choreographer Arlene Phillips choreographer, dancer and she talked to you about her very first memory yeah it's a bit noisy at this point because we're actually at the dinner the lunch table I mean there are lots of people in the room I find it very annoying when people talk to me with their mouths full so but she didn't have a mouth full no she wasn't eating I waited until half the people had finished.

17:16Do you remember the, I don't think the food was, do you remember Michelle said she didn't like the food? My wife didn't like the food. No. Well, I'm sure other people did. I'm sure they meant well, whatever it was that we were. Let's keep quiet about that, moving swiftly on. We don't want to be sued by the caterers. This is going to be Arlene Phillips. Yeah. My first memory is being very tiny and lying on pillows in a very cold stone room. And at one end, there was a huge fireplace with a small fire. I must have been maybe six to ten months. And I can just see it. I just have a vision. it's only later when I was getting older that I realised this was our home this was our house and the room was all but empty and obviously my bed was cushions.

18:26And where was this house Arlene? The house itself was in Salford and I know that we moved out of there when I was about one and a have. Well it was a bit clattery but we've got a couple more people I think we must share with everyone because they're rather special people. Nanette Newman, actress, writer, star of films such as The Stepford Wives, International Velvet, lovely lady and 90 years of age. I mean that's unbelievable. She was there with her son-in-law who married her daughter some years ago and is now the same age as Nanette. Yeah. Well, let's see what she have to tell you. She talked about her first memory.

19:17Well, my very, very first memory, I must have been about three or four, and I remember my daddy dancing with me, and I stood on his feet so that I could dance with him, and I thought it was so wonderful. I had the most wonderful daddy who was in show business, and I remember that to this day. That's my very first memory. Do you remember what the music was you were dancing to? I don't remember the music. I just remember the moment. I must have thought it was incredibly romantic. And finally, who did you meet at this lunchroom? I met Manette Bailey, who was a woman who did a skydive. Do you remember this?

20:02It was in the news last year. Oh, it was. she did she jumped out of a plane she was 102 years old and it got into the news and you know as it should because it's pretty amazing thing to do and the the oldie were giving her an award the flying angel of the year award they were calling it and yeah she's amazing okay this is 102 year old skydiver manette bailey this is manette bailey who did is the are you the oldest person ever to do a skydive? No, there's somebody older who's done 2 ,000 from a height of more than 2 ,000. I did 13 ,000 and this other person has done 15 ,000. And do you mind me asking you how old you were when you did it and how old you are now?

20:54No, I did it this year, 102. So don't imagine when you get to 80 or 90 everything's all over because it isn't and minette what's your very first memory okay i can remember being pushed in the pram from clapham to streatham by my sister and brother with i remember a cat in the pram as well and it was a long long walk but we couldn't afford a car and we didn't have proper, couldn't go in a lorry or anything. That was in 1923. And who was pushing the pram? My sister and brother. Well, they were 15 and 13 years older than me. I was a mistake. And why was there a cat in the pram? Well, we had to bring the cat back somehow.

21:50In the days when there were no cars, it's all very difficult. I don't know how we kept the cat out. I was hardly old enough to hang on to it, but we certainly brought him home. That's a wonderful first memory. Thank you so much. Thank you. Would you ever do a skydive, Giles? No. I lack physical courage. Oh, you've said that before, yeah. Totally. And it's got worse as the years go by, but I think I was pretty nervous as a child. Though not, perhaps I wasn't totally nervous. I do remember, maybe it features in my diaries, I do remember climbing on the roof of Notre Dame when I was 12, 13 with a girl.

22:35Oh, what, illegally? Sort of not on a tour, you just got up there? No, I think we were just up there. Lyingly. Security was much lighter back in the 1950s, 60s. Like a scene from Moulin Rouge, that film, do you remember? Well, it was like that. She and I, we went on a kind of adventure together over the roofs, over the roof of Notre Dame. And, yes, there were sort of parapets at the side, and there were griffins and things up there, gargoyles. And we were able to go through, was it legal, was it illegal, was it just a window we stepped through? But I've got photographs. She and I, we took photographs of each other on little cameras.

23:12They were a number of selfies in those days. So I've got a photograph. I mean, that's incredible. On a roof, it's green, the roof, and it's sloping, and we're sort of climbing up it together. But how high up? Right at the top? The roof of... And yet only a few years later I remember filming almost my first television job, it would have been in 1970, a film at Canterbury Cathedral and I had to climb up quite high there to get a good vantage point. And I was... By then I was a little bit frightened of being up high. I think nerves like that get worse as you get older. Definitely. Would you do a skydive?

23:49I don't know. I've done hang gliding before, which I really enjoyed. Yeah, it feels lovely because you feel completely free. There's no noise. And you're riding on the spirals of the thermals. You start from up high. Well, that's what we did. We started up high and then we just went down, down, down in a spiral like a bird would and landed on this beach in Australia. And it was love. I could really see myself getting into that. I've missed out on a lot of wonderful experiences because of this fear. My children are fearless in that sense. Oh, really? They've all done terrifying things like bungee jumping.

24:27Yeah, diving. Have you tried diving in the sea? They've done that. I would never do that. My son did the Cresta run. Ooh. I wouldn't. It's a shame because I do remember many years ago, 40 or more years ago, going with Michelle. we went to Iceland and then I think we went to Greenland one of the territories I think Donald Trump thinks he might like to take over and we went pony trekking in Greenland oh I love riding you do I loved it and one of my sisters was a very keen rider but I think now I'd be frightened of getting on a horse oh I don't think I'd find that frightening no I love I really like horses I think they're very sort of soulful animals.

25:13Yeah, yeah. Emotionally intelligent. Should we interview her? What was your pony called that you were riding? I don't know what the pony was called. We had a pony. We had got a pony for our son that was called Tonka that we had for a while. Oh, where do you have that? On Wandsworth Common. My sister looked after it for us. My sister Hester is no longer alive. She was very into horses. and she came across this, I think, slightly mangy pony and said, we'd like to buy it and we bought it. It wasn't very expensive. I think it was only about£100. It must have been pretty main... And it lived on Wandsworth Common in London.

25:50It lived in London, absolutely. I didn't know you could do that. Oh, yes, it was a stable near Wandsworth Common and we would go there at the weekend and Bennett, our son, would ride on Tonka around the Common. Wow. We owned it. Gosh. And then when it became too old, we sent it to the country where it lived. it. It didn't end up, I'm pleased to say, in the knacker's yard. We supported it for some years, seeing how it stays in a field. Oh, that's very nice. We get emails all the time, and we also get, and we're really grateful for those, recommendations. So thank you. That helps spread the word, which is wonderful.

26:23And people, write in. Who has written in this week? Oh, we've heard from someone called Louisa Aldridge, and the email is titled, synesthesia and memory. And it's quite long, so I'm going to read this out. Dear Harriet and Giles, I wanted to share with you one of my earliest memories. When I was four years old in the early 1980s, I had an operation at Moorfields Eye Hospital in London to correct a squint. At the end of the operation, the doctors bandaged up both my eyes as they didn't want to let the good eye become more dominant during the recovery phase. As a result, I spent a while with both eyes covered, effectively blind.

27:03I remember lying in my bed and my mum bringing me one of our dog Jessie's puppies, which had been born a few weeks earlier. The soft warm fur and the heavenly smell of the puppy is something I can recall vividly to this day, but more than that, I remember bright colours and textures filling my mind. These were very real, I could literally see the smell and feel of the puppy. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I heard the word synesthesia and realised that what had always been normal for me is not most people's experience. These days synesthesia mostly affects my perception of letters, numbers and musical keys which all have distinct colours and or textures.

27:48For example the letter A is bright yellow, the number eight is sky blue and g major is the color and texture of oak extraordinary i've since asked friends about their experiences some don't have a clue what i mean whereas others realize that they do in fact have colors for say the days of the week but hadn't really noticed it before i've often wondered whether that period of time without my sense of sight caused my brain to wire in a different way or maybe it didn't prune something that we're all born with i'd be curious to know whether this resonates with either of you or your listeners amongst the people i've asked it tends to be the more creative types who have synesthesia so perhaps it's more common among your guests too many thanks for brightening the winter months i can't wait to hear what you have in store for us in the year ahead all the best louisa oh p.s we kept the puppy her name was lizzie well it's a great story but it's a fascinating phenomenon yeah i had not heard of it really Certainly something.

28:50No. Oh, Charles. That's so strange. I thought you knew everything. Well, of course, I do know everything. But this I did not know. Wow. And I never, does it ring any bells with you at all? Well, I know about it, but I don't think I have it. No. I mean, days of the week being colours, I sort of vaguely think of that. But I think it's because I had some, I can't believe I'm going to tell you this when i was very young i had pants with days of the week on do you remember they were a thing pants with days of the week yeah so you wore them on monday well i mean i think that was the idea when you were they had colors so monday was light blue tuesday was green wednesday was yellow friday was pink and i think maybe that's got caught up in my head you've never heard of it no i don't think i have maybe i've heard the word but not dared ask about it not wishing to admit that I didn't know what it was.

29:45So if there's a synesthesia expert out there, and let's hope we don't have a lisp, if there is a synesthesia expert out there who wants to tell us more about it, do please send us an email. What's the address? It's hello at rosebudpodcast.com Hello at rosebudpodcast.com Is that our lot for this week? I think it probably is. Yes, that's all we've got time for. Oh, well we've enjoyed our lunch with the people at the Oldie who weren't oldies, and it's reminded me of one of my favourite poems. It's by Lewis Carroll. I think you will recognise it, Harriet. You are old, Father William, the young man said, and your hair has become very white, and yet you incessantly stand on your head.

30:32Do you think at your age it is right? In my youth, Father William replied to his son, I feared it would injure the brain, but now that I'm perfectly sure I have none why I do it again and again you are old said the youth as I mentioned before and have grown most uncommonly fat yet you turned a back somersault into the door pray what is the reason of that in my youth said the sage as he shook his gray locks I kept all my limbs very supple by the use of this ointment one shilling the box allow me to sell you a couple. You are old, said the youth, and your jaws are too weak for anything tougher than suet.

31:14Yet you finished the goose with the bones and the beak. Pray, how did you manage to do it? In my youth, said his father, I took to the law and argued each case with my wife, and the muscular strength which it gave to my jaw has lasted the rest of my life. You are old, said the youth. One would hardly suppose that your eye was as steady as ever. Yet you balanced an eel on the end of your nose. What made you so awfully clever? I have answered three questions, and that is enough, said his father. Don't give yourself airs. Do you think I can listen all day to such stuff? Be off, or I'll kick you downstairs.

32:02It's fun, isn't it? It's brilliant. Okay, cue the music.

32:50That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth. Thank you for listening.