More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries, episode 33

0:20This is Rosebud. In fact, it's more Rosebud. My name is Giles Brandreth and I'm here today in the Rosebud studio, which is located in the centre of London, really, on the edge of Mayfair. We are at the Grosvenor House on Park Lane. I say we because I'm not alone. I have with me my beautiful and brilliant wife of many years, Michelle.

0:47Well, that's very exciting to know that you've even listened to me, Giles, is all I can say. I'm very grateful. Of course I listen to you. The four most important words in the English language are simply, listen to your wife. Oh, good. I'm glad you're picking up the ears. I've learnt that. No question. Michelle, somebody asked me, are you named after the Beatles song? Michelle, my bell. No, I'm Michelle, not Michelle. Oh. Very important difference. So how do you spell yours? I spell mine with one L and another E. And is it a cute accent or is it a grave accent? Well, I'm very careful about these things, Giles.

1:26You should know that by now. It has to be perfect. So, yes, I had to get the right number to get the right name. You've got a good name. And my friend Harriet. Harriet Jane is here as well. She is our producer and our friend. Harriet, why are you called Harriet? Do you know? No. I think my parents just like the name. How interesting. Is it a Saint Harriet? Oh, no. It's 18th century. it's relatively modern I think yeah I think it's Georgian or you know it's it's just a kind of feminization of Harry or Henry well Michelle is a feminization of Michael Michelle comes from a Catholic family uh and there were quite a few Michaels in your family is that I suppose that's why you're called Michelle my father was called Michael in fact he wasn't really called Michael he had another name I know it sounds ridiculous I think you're right I think his name was actually was Michael, but he called himself Alec.

2:23That's right. I think his name was probably Michael Alec Brown. Yeah. So why are you called Giles Giles? I'm called Giles because it's an old family name. My father had forebears, several of whom were called Giles, and whose surname was for many years Dauberney, D-A-U-B-E-N-E-Y. Oh yeah, your middle name. And my full name is Giles Dauberny Brandreth. And the line was that I'm descended from somebody called Sir Giles Dauberny, who is buried in Westminster Abbey. And my parents always said, oh, that was spelt with a Y, which is why you're spelt with a Y. In fact, last year, I happened to be broadcasting for the Commonwealth Day service in Westminster Abbey.

3:08And we were, the crew, the BBC crew, was in the chapel where Giles Daubanee is laid to rest. And I looked to the side of the sarcophagus and it's Sir Giles Daubanee with an I. No. So the real reason I think I'm called Giles with a Y is this. My father was at Oxford University in the 1920s and he hugely admired somebody who was at that time a famous Oxford figure, who was president of the Oxford Union, the debating society, who starred in the ODS, the Oxford University Dramatic Society, and who was editor of the university magazine ISIS. And my father told me I had to do all these things. And this man was called Giles Eisham.

3:54Sir Giles Eisham. With a Y. With a Y. He played Hamlet at the Old Vic. He starred in a movie with Greta Garbo. Golly. And yet he is now really forgotten. But Giles Dauberny was an interesting figure, cup bearer to Henry II. Quite an interesting story. How closely I'm related to him, I do not know. But that's the reason I'm called Giles D 'Auburn of Brandreth. And the why, it was, well... It crept in. It crept in. And you, Michelle, will confirm this. Orthography, spelling, is really a relatively recent... It didn't really get settled until the advent of printing. That is correct. That is correct.

4:36That is interesting. Somebody like Shakespeare signs his name. There are about 24 autographs of Shakespeare. And each one, he spells his name slightly different. How interesting. But I'll just say that all three of us has a name you have to spell out. So you've got Giles with a Y, which means every time you speak to someone, it's Giles with a Y. Has it been annoying for you to have to tell people, it's Giles with a Y? When I was a boy, I think people saw it as an affectation. Yes. It made people think I was supercilious. It was a kind of false... Supercilious Simpson. Yeah, the nickname that I had.

5:13Possibly because it's jars with a Y. But it is distinctive. I don't mind it now. And I certainly don't complain. People sometimes write to me, Dear Giles with an I, and then two minutes later there's another email saying, Oops, sorry, didn't mean to get it wrong. Doesn't bother you. It really does not bother me. There's more to life, isn't there? Yeah, there must be. And I'm rather thrilled, people send us emails and without us saying it's Charles of the Y they seem to know it's Charles of the Y. They do, Charles of the Y. Was it those big posters that you put everywhere? We had a letter, an email from Sebastian Merrick.

5:53I like Sebastian's name. Merrick, M-E-R-R-I-C-K. And he's a listener who's also kept a teenage diary. Has he sent us in some of it? He has, yes. Oh, share it with us. I know, I will, I will. So I'm going to read Monday, the 12th of March, 1984. Do you think it's worth, this is Sebastian's diary, so Sebastian speaking. Do you think it is worth going mad? It would be quite an easy way out, but I suppose one would miss out on a lot of things. I expect I will go mad, but I hope not. I'll probably convince myself that I shall go mad and I will. One in three intelligent people have psychological problems.

6:38The best way to avoid it is to put yourself second and accept to enjoy the good with the bad. It would be quite interesting to be a psychologist. Yes, I've had psychology with the deputy head today. He's a really good bloke, ever so understanding and human. Apparently, I'm an introvert. Not apparently, I am. But these problems are so unoriginal. Millions have been me and done what I do. In fact, everything has been done so many times that you begin to realise that you're nothing special after all. After all, who will dream of me tonight? No one. Apart from me, that is. Because if no one else does, at least I know about myself.

7:20So everyone else, go and screw yourselves. Oh, I love it. That's Adrian Mole on speed. It's very philosophical. Very entertaining. And he certainly isn't an introvert now because I see that inspired by our diaries, the ones we share on Rosebud, and, Harriet, by your Radio 4 show that you produced for many years, My Teenage Diary, Sebastian Merrick is going to be putting on a show about his teenage diaries. I know. Amazing. Very brave, I think. Don't you think? to read out your diaries. Well, I mean, you obviously do it every week, but to read out your diaries in front of an audience. Where's he doing it?

7:58He's doing it. Yes, so I'm mentioning this because obviously if you're in the area and you're interested in diaries, which you probably are if you're listening to this, I'm sure Sebastian would love it if you bought a ticket and went along. And it's at the Lion and the Unicorn Theatre, which I think is above a pub. I think it's one of those little theatres above a pub in Kentish Town in North London. and it's on Sunday, February the 8th at half past six, which is a good time, I think, to go and see something. It's a great time. Go and have some dinner afterwards. We've been to that theatre. It's not that small.

8:29It is a bubble pub, but it's actually rather a classy theatre and they've got high standards. So I think this will be a good show. Thanks for being in touch. I'm going to go, Sebastian, by the way. So if you go, you might see me. Good. Lovely. 8th of February, any minute now. Good. Well, shall I read my diaries now? Yes, absolutely. What year have we reached? We're in 1972 still. Fine, so I'm about 24. The first entry is Saturday the 15th of July, 1972. I couldn't bring myself to write about this yesterday. Now I think I can. Last night was probably the worst night of my professional life so far.

9:09It was horrible. I'd been badgering Dabber Mr Show Business Davis to get me a cabaret booking. David Davis, he was a variety agent and a partner in Associated Speakers, which was the speaking agency I was doing occasional things for. And he'd worked when he was young, I think, with Bob Monkhouse and Dennis Goodwin on scripts. Anyway, he was now an agent. And I badged him to get me a cabaret booking. He did. Here, at the Clockhouse Hotel, Chiddock, Dorset. They'll love you, Giles. Your sort of crowd. No fee, but two nights at a beautiful hotel, all found. We came down by train yesterday morning, Dabba regaling me all the way with tales from his days working with Bob Monkhouse and Dennis Goodwin.

9:58In Plymouth, we stopped off at the ITV station where I was interviewed for Westwood Diary and stood on my head on air. First for Westwood TV, they told me. We came to the hotel. They showed us our bedrooms, chintzy and charming. they showed us the dining room and the tiny stage at one end of it where i was to perform i was to be top of the bill following on from a local act a much-loved chidduck favorite known as fred the spoons he plays the spoons while singing dorset folk songs oh i think that's good fun actually i mean it sounds brilliant yeah wait to see what happens you go crazy on tiktok don't you I think so.

10:40I agree with you. Well, he could still be around. It's only 50 years ago. Well, 53 years ago. 54 years ago. It's going awfully quickly, Giles. Time does, isn't it? To cut to the chase, I spent the evening in my room with my stomach churning. I'd prepared an act, but I'd not performed it out loud before. At around 9.30pm, I went down to the dining room. Fred the Spoons was on and wowing them. With each succeeding number, they loved him more. and when he reached his finale, during which he played empty Coca-Cola bottles, they simply went wild. When he'd finished, he introduced me. I went on in silence to silence, or rather to the sound of cutlery on China and the murmur of conversation.

11:29The diners looked up at me briefly and then turned back to their plates and carried on eating. My throat was dry, my heart was thumping, I stood on the tiny stage, gazing out at the sea of heads bent over their dinners, and began my act. To say that I died would be an exaggeration, since I made no impact whatsoever. The business of the dining room continued as though I was not there. I was terrible, of course. I lost my nerve, I lost my way, I gabbled my way through my material. When I got to the end, I stood on my head. Yes, I stood on my head on a tiny dais in the corner of this cramped and crowded dining room, and nobody noticed.

12:18Waitresses passed in front of me, customers paid their bills and went on their way. I left the stage in silence. I came off the stage and walked straight into the bar. Dabba Davis was standing at the far end of it, talking to the barman. He failed to look my way. He didn't even say good night. I had a miserable night. I did not sleep. I simply went over the disaster again and again. And the only reason I'm recording this now is because 24 hours have passed, and tonight, well, tonight, I triumphed. Perhaps that's an exaggeration. Tonight, I survived. I even did quite well. It was down to Fred the spoons.

13:03As he got to his finale and began playing the Coca-Cola bottles, one of them cracked. I was standing watching and I could see blood streaming from his fingers. I'd heard that it was his birthday. So as he stopped mid-number to put down his broken bottles and examine his bleeding fingers, I leapt onto the dais and asked the audience to give him a cheer. I then led them in a rousing chorus of happy birthday. and on the crest of the wave of applause for Fred launched into my act and swept on and on and on until I threw myself onto my head and upside down watched them clap and cheer. I bowed and waved and walked off to find Dabba in the bar waiting for me with an open bottle of champagne.

13:55That's show business. Amazing, Giles. What an experience. I mean, that... I remember that. You do remember it. I totally remember it. Gosh. The first night, we were so distressed by being dropped by Dabba. Yeah, because he was supposed to be a friend. He was a friend. He was a friend. And it was quite... It's almost worth saying this. It was quite upsetting to find out that he'd sort of moved away and wanted to distance himself from what was going to be a failure. It shows you how ruthless it is, doesn't it? Yes. yeah people don't want to be around someone that's not doing well but at least i recorded it of course because the next night i survived but you really learn from experiences like this don't you what what did you what what were your learnings john i think what i learned immediately was that you need to get their attention yeah now often because i do big corporate events in hotels like the one we're in now, Groven House, which has the largest room in Europe.

15:00You can speak to literally 2 ,000 people here, and I've done so in the great room. You can't begin if there's hubbub. So you have to actually wait until the hubbub subsides. And you can make it subside. You can actually get everyone to hush. So you can't start until they're looking at you and concentrating. And because of Fred the Spoons and them singing, I got them at that moment. Yeah, and the first night they were eating, I don't think it's easy to do when people are eating. No, exactly. They might have been eating the second night, but they'd put down their knives and forks to sing. And then I had them and I kept them.

15:33And I kept going. I didn't lose my nerve, but it was a baptism of fire. The other thing I think that you mentioned in the diary here is that you hadn't ever run through it. And you've got to... What madness is that? I think people go to these shows and think it's all off the cuff. when actually they've been rehearsed and worked on and workshopped and you've got to. Rookie era, Giles. The next entry is from Tuesday the 18th of July, 1972, and it refers to somebody called Reginald Maudling. Now, Michelle will remember Reginald Maudling. Does that name mean anything to you, Harriet? Are you of a younger generation?

16:15No, it means nothing to me. He was a Conservative MP, Chancellor of the Exchequer and Home Secretary. He had been a non-executive director of one of the companies of a man called John Poulsen, who was an architect who routinely had used bribery to secure local government contracts. So listen to this. Reginald, 18th of July, 1972. Reginald Magdalen, the Home Secretary, has resigned, caught up in the Poulsen bankruptcy and corruption scandal. Charles Brandreth, would-be Home Secretary has had lunch with Barbie Buss editor of Woman magazine plus entourage at the Ivy they fated me royally I am their new star I'm getting£65 a week I have to give up writing for anyone else Woman's Own, Daily Mail, Observer, etc I have to clear any radio and TV I do if the magazine's name is likely to be mentioned they are taking it all very seriously Glasses were raised.

17:20My fingers were crossed. Tea with Barney, my old school friend. It was fine. But we're not friends in the way we were. Apart from Simon Cadell, I don't see anyone from school anymore. Monday the 14th of August 1972. Yesterday we had a very civilised lunch with Lady Dowding. Oh, you'll remember this, Michelle. I do. I remember her with great affection. Muriel Lady Dowding. She was the widow of Air Marshal Hugh Dowding, who was the hero of the Battle of Britain. And she was the founder of something called Beauty Without Cruelty. Beauty Without Cruelty, yes. It was cosmetics. She was a lovely woman, lovely.

17:58And Michelle at this time, having been the first woman to read the news on British television, was a television presenter. And you'd interviewed her on a programme called Good Afternoon, which was one of the new daytime television shows that had launched and that you were co-presenting. So that's how you met her. Yes, that's right. Yesterday we had a very civilised lunch with Lady Dowding at her home in Tunbridge Wells She is a vegetarian and the food was really tasty, especially the avocado mousse She has her own cook As Michelle said, we could all be vegetarians if we had our own cook That's a very good observation, Michelle Tonight we had a really uncivilised meal at the Savoy Hotel We went to see Simon Goodell in Lloyd George knew my father The play, by William Douglas Hume, is pretty flimsy, but Peggy Ashcroft and Ralph Richardson are strong, and Simon and his now girlfriend, Susan Farmer, excellent as the juveniles.

18:57We booked a table in the Savoy Grill for 10.30pm and arrived on time. It seems we outstayed our welcome. Dishes were being cleared while I was still on my main course. We were asked to choose our liqueurs mid-meal. We weren't offered a choice of desserts from the menu, just given a cursory glance of what was left on the trolley. By 11.40pm, they'd removed the silver toothpick holder and replaced the silver ashtrays with saucers. By midnight, they were whisking tablecloths off the tables around us, lowering the lights and starting the hoovering. I asked our waiter to call the manager. He shouted at me from across the room, get the manager yourself.

19:39A nasty experience for which we were expected to pay£28.26p. I'm planning to cancel the cheque. And I did. Oh, well done, actually. It was horrid. The ensuing correspondence with the Savoy solicitors, I think it continued till almost the end of the year. Oh, dear. It's quite late, though, midnight. I think a lot of places want you out by then. And also people get tired. I know. When they've been working all day. But this was the Savoy Grill in the Savoy Hotel. We had booked for 10.30. They might have said, 10.30, we can only do you one course. You're going to be out by 11.30. We've been to the theatre next door, which is part of the same.

20:19Anyway, there's no way to treat customers. No. In my view. I don't like it. That would not happen, I have to tell you, at Grosvenor House. But when I want people to leave my house, I just start hoovering. It's a great way to get rid of people. I bet it is. I can't bear when people do stay too late. Oh, it's a nightmare, isn't it? How do you get rid of people that stay late? We actually say to them beforehand, oh, it's going to be, we've asked you to come at six because we're looking for an early night. Great, yes. Because often, truly, I'm working the next day on television, so they understand that.

20:52Yeah. We're much better about it now. Yeah. But it can be awkward if people don't know. Yes, no, I think a friend of mine was saying they had to get someone to leave last year who who was chatting away at two in the morning or no no yeah yeah no monday the 11th of september 1972 we took sir michael redgrave to lunch at the empress in barclay street today he arrived promptly and looked well pink cheeked and baby faced he walked in a little slowly but he seemed fine he said he was enjoying appearing in a voyage around my father. He said, if we come, we mustn't tell him we're out front. It will make him too nervous.

21:35He told the management that he would only do it if he could open it without a press night. The audience arrived, expected to see Alec Guinness, and found Michael instead. He has a horror of first nights and openings now. My nerve has gone, he said, smiling sweetly, and my memory isn't too good either. Let's not talk about the old boys. We didn't. We talked about the go-between and the Browning version and how he hated the opening season at the National and his ambivalence towards Laurence Olivier and then all of a sudden in the middle of the main course his head fell forward. I thought he was going to collapse into his food.

22:17He looked up very slowly and his eyes were half closed and the colour had drained from his face. He whispered, I'm so sorry, I don't feel very well. This keeps happening. I helped him to the street and found him a taxi. He had two shelling pieces to give everyone as we passed. I put him into the cab and waved him on his way. He peered out of the window and waved back. He looked quite frightened. this was a very great actor Sir Michael Redgrave father of course of Vanessa Redgrave a whole dynasty of distinguished actors and he was at the beginning of what later was discovered to be Parkinson's disease but nobody knew it at the time and this may feature later in the diary people thought he just drank too much he was a very very sweet man and very generous to people and obviously getting older anyway, as we all do.

23:14But it was very sad to see that he'd actually got a severe illness because he was a really special, nice, very loving sort of person. Oh, how sweet. I think what this captures really well is how frightening it is when you're in the beginning of an illness like that and you don't really know what's happening. And he was a huge film star in his day. A film like The Browning Version was one of the most successful British movies. was The Go-Between, in which he'd just appeared, was a huge international film. So he was a major figure to see. And also physically, he was very big. To see this man crumbling before your eyes.

23:51But this wasn't the last time you saw him. Oh, no, you'll see much more of him. But for us, he's in his 60s, or maybe, you know, late 60s. Oh, he's young. Comparatively. In comparison. In those years, people got older sooner. That's true. That's true, Michelle. I think he was born about 1908. So how would he be older in 72? He'd be 64. Young. Yeah. Yes. But he looked much older than that. That illness showed that it was something more than just not feeling well one evening. Yeah. But he didn't know yet, maybe. Exactly.

24:32Tuesday, the 12th of September 1972. My first weekly column appears in Woman Today. I'm on the front page, introducing Giles Brandreth, the man you'll want to know. I come with two big typhoon tea bags, free, and how to get a new hairdo without leaving home. The introductory spread is impressive. A full-page photograph, a good one, beneath the headline, This is Giles Brandreth. He's 24 years old. He's got a keen eye for all that's amusing or touching, lovable or deplorable. Modern as tomorrow. He still has a lot of time for yesterday. My first piece is on the most romantic person I know. A lady who's been confined to bed for nine years, but still lives for romance.

25:19Woman found her for me. Next week, I'm looking at modern ways to make a date. Last night, I took the overnight sleeper to Plymouth. I'm here recording Open House at Westwood TV, edited and presented by Angela Rippon. Ooh, a rosebud guest. A rosebud guest. This is when she first appears in my life. We do the programmes as live. But in the middle of one of my pieces today, I dried. I just came to a standstill. It was halfway through the recording. We had to stop the tape, roll back and start the entire programme all over again. She took it incredibly well. Wow. Today, I was going to watch TV, but I've seen enough of the Olympics.

26:03Mark Spitz is amazing, but he leaves me cold. Olga Corbett is charming, but she reminds me of Kim, the girl I rescued from the waves in California. And that was then, and this is now. So instead, I'm going to the pictures to see young Winston. Simon Goodell was up for it and got so close, but his lopsided smile did for him, and it went to Simon Ward. Tomorrow, more open house, then back to London. Pa, Hess and her girlfriend Sue are coming round. Right now, I'm sitting in my room at the Continental Hotel with Woman Magazine's Evelyn Home for company. She was the agony aunt. A reader writes, How can I tell whether my husband's behaviour is just antisocial or whether he is suffering from mental illness?

26:54He refuses to see a doctor, but his appearance seems to have altered slightly. When we married, I noticed he had a nervous tick. I'm middle-aged with two children over ten. Evelyn suggests the reader goes to see the doctor without him. Will that help? Have you ever been an agony aunt? No. I've known quite a few. I think you'd be quite good at that, Giles. Do you? Yeah. I don't think I'd presume, actually, to give advice. Oh, really? I don't think I'd do. I mean, I love hearing about people's problems, challenges, their lives. Well, that's what Rosebud is all about. Yeah. But I don't think I'd want to say, this is what you should do, because I think this would help.

27:34I've never felt that I knew the answers. And indeed, we have, as you know, three children, Michelle and I. And I would say I've left all the child rearing, the serious stuff, the role modeling, the advice, entirely to Michelle. I've just been the friendly father. And she has done. They are such remarkable people. It's entirely due to her quality and her integrity. and if they sought guidance, I don't know if they did, but if they sought it, they will have got it from her, not from me. So you weren't handing out pearls of wisdom? No. Oh, really? No. That surprises me. Really? Yeah. I don't ever offer you advice, do I?

28:14I think you do sometimes and I think you have mentioned to me that you've quite enjoyed giving people some advice. No, I think from my own experience, I can say, if I'm talking to a woman who is telling me her husband doesn't understand, I can then say well I'll tell you what men are really like because I am one so from my own experience my own fallibility I can say I know blokes like this which may be helpful but I don't presume to give advice no you wouldn't want to get into something you didn't know from personal experience she may appear in the diaries there was somebody called Marjorie Proops who I met I know that name who was a brilliant agony aunt yeah well Philippa Perry she's a very good one Yes.

28:59I love meeting her. Yeah, she gives really good advice on Instagram. Oh, must check her out. Yeah. The story goes on. Sunday the 17th of September 1972, we went to lunch with Michael Redgrave at 35 Lower Belgrave Street. He's only recently moved, but he's very pleased with it. He has posters of past productions lining the walls and showed us all the boxes containing old programmes and press cuttings, all carefully sorted and filed by Joan Hurst, the invaluable secretary he inherited from Noel Coward. He welcomed us with his usual shy smile and seemed fine until he was showing us around the upstairs and suddenly stumbled in the bedroom and had to sit at the top of the stairs holding on to the banister.

29:45I don't know what is happening to me, he said. He's obviously frightened. It's something more than the drink. Brian Desmond Hurst made up the party He's an Irish film director Friend of Robin Maugham Full of good stories He and I kept the show going While Michelle and Michael looked on Michael talks very affectionately of Rachel That's Lady Redgrave, his wife But we never see her She's in the country when he's in town The meal was served by a batty housekeeper Who wore an outsized wig at a funny angle It was a memorable occasion, but a bit like being in a Pirandello play. We're just in from supper with Simon Goodell at Odin's, our new favourite restaurant.

30:33We love the paintings, wonderful paintings. We love the crisp white tablecloths and the big chairs with arms. I love the mushroom pâté en brioche. We all rounded off the meal with creme de mante frappée and persuaded the waiter to let us have straws. Simon told us plenty of Ralph Richardson stories. During matinees, Sir Ralph manages to shave 15 minutes of the performance playing time. Does he speak very fast? No, he simply cuts out great chunks of the play. I don't think anybody notices, do you, cocky? Outrageous behaviour, isn't it? How funny. Yeah. Brilliant, though. I mean, we all want things to be 15 minutes shorter, don't we?

31:18Every play benefits from being 15 minutes shorter. How right you are. And who better than Sir Ralph Richardson than to make the cuts? He knew what he was doing. Exactly. Can I just say, I love mushroom pâté. And there's a Rosebud listener who makes it. She makes it professionally. It's absolutely delicious. And she gave me a pot. Oh, she gave you a pot. I love it. I think about it all the time. The restaurant where they had this mushroom pâté, Odin's, It was the first restaurant started in London by Peter Langan. Oh, yeah. Who went on to found Langan's, which still exists. Yeah. He had a wonderful collection of paintings on the walls in the restaurant, but a wicked taste for drink, which ultimately killed him.

31:55Oh, dear. Monday, the 18th September 1972. Michelle and I went with Pa by train to Bournemouth and then on to Poole to 50 Parkston Road to say goodbye to his family home. Oh. Auntie Helen, that's my father's sister, died on the 8th of June. And the house is going to be sold. All Pa said was, it's the end of an era. He did not talk about Auntie Helen or his parents. He doesn't. Because they died around the time I was born. When did they die? 1950? 1952? I don't actually know. I've no sense of them at all. If I saw a picture of them, I wouldn't recognise them. My grandfather, was his name Henry?

32:45Yes, I think it was. He was a solicitor. Like par, he'd been a barrister up in Liverpool, but he came south and became a solicitor because the living was more secure. I say that, I have no idea. I know he was a solicitor and senior partner with a firm in Bournemouth, but I have no idea what led him there. My grandmother, I don't know her name. Isn't that extraordinary? Was a housewife and a keen anti-vivisectionist. Aunty Helen, the spinster daughter who gave up her life to looking after her elderly parents and who I never saw without a cigarette in her hand, took on her mother's commitment to animal welfare.

33:24I think she was treasurer of the local RSPCA. I liked Aunty Helen, but I didn't really know her. I remember the tortoise she kept in the garden when I was a child and last year I had coffee with her at Bobbie's, the department store in Bournemouth. But who she was, her hopes and fears, I couldn't tell you. She was quite small and spindly, with short grey hair and spectacles, and not so much shy as restrained, contained, quite formal. When we had coffee, I could not believe how thin and elderly she'd become. she died of cancer having been blown over by a gust of wind in the street she was 65 we looked around the house everything had been packed up we were the last visitors so everything anyone wanted had already gone i think auntie hope and family have taken the best pictures and pieces i imagine auntie helen bequeathed them to them pa didn't seem to want anything at all He said at Chiltern Court there isn't room We took the three remaining paintings including one of Dr Brandreth, the pill man and one of Prince, my great-grandfather's Newfoundland dog on the beach in North Wales and the dining room table Aunty Helen simply kept it in a corner with a cloth over it It's some wonderful Canadian wood and with all eight leaves added makes a table that can see 24 Pa remembered being made to dance on it as a child.

35:01Tonight, on the box, there was a panorama profile of Lord Longford I featured. I want to say about that furniture, that that furniture is central to my life to this day, 55 years, 54 years later. That table is the table I write on, overlooked by the painting of Dr. Brandreth. and in the hallway at home, you've seen it, is the big picture of the Newfoundland dog. I mean, it's very, very interesting that you're, given the fact you're so keen on family history and that your father was so reticent about his. You haven't read, have I given you a copy of my book, Odd Boy, Odd? Yes, yes. And it basically is a book, in a sense, about my father.

35:48And I didn't, he never talked about any of this. But I think I came to realise that my father's relationship with his parents was uncomfortable. He felt he was a disappointment to them. They didn't encourage him to do the things he wanted to do with his life. I think he felt distanced from them. He was close to his sisters, Aunty Helen and Aunty Hope. His brother Benji, who was killed during the Second World War, he never spoke about at all. So I assume his brother Benji was his parents' favourite. The eldest son. My father was the youngest of the family and I think was regarded, he was actually a very successful person, but was regarded by them as a bit of a disappointment and he didn't achieve some of the things he wanted to achieve.

36:44As I've touched on often with you, he had these money worries so he had an awkward relationship with his parents never referred to it and didn't want any of this material yes and so do you think you know you've obviously said a few times that you're still trying to make your dad proud or whatever well michelle says that yeah but i think that comes through sometimes with the way you talk about him do you think that's partly to make up for your father's feelings of inadequacy? Well, no, not of disappointment, not inadequacy. I don't think he did feel inadequate. I think he was quite confident of his own.

37:22But yes, that's why at university I tried to achieve the things he would have liked to have achieved. Yes, because he would have been disappointed unless it was as he'd hoped it was going to be. Yes, and I know I told you that when our son, Michelle's and my son, became a king's council, then a queen's council, because it was a few years ago, how proud my father would have been. Because that would have been the ultimate. Yes, he would have been so proud. Aspiration for him. So, I mean, this is, in a sense, what Rosebud is all about. So interesting. I mean, you, Harriet, you, and we could do the whole of Rosebud, could be, for many episodes, about you, your mother, and your father.

38:03Yes. You know. Yes, I mean, my dad's similar. I don't know anything about his parents at all. and he doesn't know a great deal. His mum died when he was born. Literally, as he was born? Yes, as he was born, yeah. Gosh. And then his father is just a name to me, but I really don't know much about him. And I wouldn't, as you say, I wouldn't be able to recognise a photograph. I'm hoping, and I must write to him personally, to persuade him to do a rosebud one day. Yeah. So we can discover a little bit more. And interestingly, our son Bennett went to the home where my mother ultimately lived when she was in her 90s and recorded conversations with her.

38:41So he managed to get more stories from her than I ever did. Then my mother talked much more about her childhood. She had a happy and interesting childhood. My father didn't talk about his at all. Yeah, sometimes you've got to do that, actually. Just think, before this person goes, let's sit down and really interview them. It's a good idea.

39:06Wednesday 20th September 1972 Publication of the Longford Report There's nothing in it Nothing of substance Really not At 7.45am I was interviewed by Robert Robinson On Today I was okay But encapsulating what you want to say in three minutes Is a lot more difficult than it sounds And Mr Robinson does descend on one from such a height At their press conference, I was knocked by Malcolm Muggeridge with lip-smacking relish, and Lord Longford shook his head when my name was mentioned and said I was very young. I was out all day, so I managed to avoid most of the press calls. I've agreed to go to Bristol in the morning to be interviewed by Jan Leeming for Women Only, Harlick TV,£15 fee plus£7.60 for the train.

39:54At 5.30pm I went to Hanover Square for my first meeting as a member of the Advisory Council of BBC Radio London I was flattered into this because the appointment is met by the Minister for Posts and Telecommunications and I thought it would look good on my CV It seems it's a pretty pointless talking shop The other members appear to be people who do nothing in their lives but go to meetings like this Extraordinary Friday 29th September 1972 It's Michaelmas Day and the feast of St Michael and all angels and I want to be writing my diary properly but I can't because time is against me I must do the draft of the woman phobias piece and tonight we're going to a voyage round my father at the Haymarket This means that my account of the encounters of the week is going to have to wait Oh, chief among them the gentle, pretty, slightly fae let's speak quite softly Duchess of Kent at the NACRA reception on Monday night.

40:58This is the National Association for the Canary Settlement of Offenders. The almost as fae ballet dancer John Gilpin at Westwood TV on Wednesday he sat on a swivel stool and said my legs have given up on me I've got to start acting again but people think of me as a dancer the public will only accept you as one thing change tack and it confuses them If I can't get any work, I'll just have to go somewhere and die. He'd been a leading dancer with the London Festival Ballet. In fact, he died of a heart attack about ten years later in Monte Carlo, six weeks after his second wedding. Anyway, that's by the by.

41:38Anne Wood, editor of Books for Your Children. We travelled up from Plymouth together. She could get on your nerves, but I liked her. I like her awareness of her own worth and the way she knows it all. Do you know the name, Anne Wood, Harriet? Yes. Creator of Teletubbies. A television producer, yes. Puzzle Party, a programme she did with me, and obviously Teletubbies and In the Night Garden. Anyway, that's when I first met her. Lunch yesterday with Jack D 'Amanio. He drank and he drank and he drank. And he'd already been drinking when we met. He was fruity and funny. He's deaf, but he denies it.

42:15He spent the whole lunch berating the BBC while ordering more wine at the corporation's expense. Thursday the 19th of October 1972. Dr Henry Kissinger is holding peace talks in Paris and telling us that a settlement in Vietnam is within reach. Siddle Fletcher is recording Alice Through the Looking Glass, the Brandworth version, at Thames TV. Oh, wow. and GDB, that's me, is on his way to Beaconsfield to give a lunchtime lecture followed by another in Bury St Edmunds tonight. That's£50 today for speaking plus the Alice fee plus a flurry of checks this morning including£270 from Woman £20 from Siddle for The Lewis Carroll Show and£90 from Westwood TV for Open House.

43:03Friday the 20th of October 1972. For one of my Woman pieces I'm having my fortune told. My personality tested, my bumps felt. Today, after lunch with Graham Levine, he was the founder of a magazine called Games and Puzzles that I was writing for, I made my way to 100 Maryland High Street and climbed the stairs to meet a palmist who calls herself Estelle. I rang the bell and waited. I rang again. The door opened just a crack and slowly, around the latch, I suddenly saw a tiny, wizened, black hand. I stepped back, and as the door fell open, a monkey in a little red jacket swung into view. This was Estelle's assistant.

43:51While she made tea, he leapt about the room, swinging from bookcase to table to sideboard. Wow. I didn't much like him, and I wasn't impressed by Estelle's predictions either. Long life and happiness was what she promised, with the possibility of some heartache along the way. I'm much more impressed with the insights on offer from Jeanne Heel, sometime TV presenter and producer, now leading graphologist. Anonymously, I sent her a page of my handwriting, and I've just now opened her rather startling report. This huge and very individual writing is the expression of an independent and somewhat explosive personality.

44:36It shows the writer has a high IQ and considerable imagination, very good muscular coordination, a games player, a dancer, and considerable aesthetic appreciation. There is a very strong sexual drive. This, in fact, dominates the handwriting. However, although there is tremendous strain and considerable demand for expression in the areas dealing with imagination and sex These are regulated by a decidedly conventional attitude to daily life This is me now Let's take the muscular coordination and sex drive with a pinch of salt and focus on this Here, I do think Miss Heal is spot on He requires elbow room and he wants prestige.

45:26Inclined to be egocentric, his attitude appears to be that if society does not suit him, he will change society. However, under the aggression, he really dislikes friction and is receptive and far more sensitive and friendly than he allows acquaintances to realise. As a result, he tends to keep himself a little apart, avoids close friendships and is definitely not a man for communal life. He has no need whatsoever for the support of a gang because he has his own philosophy for life. There are three more pages of this. It's certainly one for the archives. Given that she's never met me and doesn't know me from Adam, I'm impressed.

46:13Hmm, Giles. Just on the basis of handwriting. Very interesting. I had to write a page of handwriting for her, copy it out. I gave it to the editor, who then sent it to her. And that was the report she came up with. Quite intriguing. Wah, wah, wah. You think she's got you when she says you don't need, basically you keep yourself apart, you don't need friends. I'm 24 this time. I'm not saying she's got me necessarily right today. but I'm what's interesting is that clearly I quite liked this bit and I thought I mean because she she could say all sorts of other things couldn't she I mean it's amazing when people do this isn't it yeah I mean it's uncanny because I think I wasn't one for a gang or communal life I had individual friendships with a few people and I think what she said I'm inclined to be egocentric would you say that I was egocentric darling yes oh fine moving on Michelle I mean isn't it amazing how one's wife or husband can just the book I was going to call knock you down to size she said why don't you call it what you should call it I said what's that she said me me me well I don't think we kept that one did we no we didn't we didn't um oh Charles I don't I think you're a egocentrian.

47:41But also, it's interesting, you see, under the aggression, he really dislikes friction. That's certainly true. Yeah. I often say to you, we need to be ruthless, you know. But the truth is, I'm a very soft touch, don't you think? And you're a peacemaker, aren't you? I'm very keen on that. And a diplomat, yeah. You don't go around arguing. No, I don't want that. I don't want that. Good. Well, that was rather fun, wasn't it? Any other business? How is the Rosebud family developing? Remind everybody who don't know about it what it is. It's our membership club. It's like a private members club, in fact.

48:16It is. Because this Rosebud and More Rosebud every Friday, every Tuesday is open to the general public. That's right. Anyone can tune in and we love having you. And we're thrilled that we do have literally millions of downloads around the world. But we do have this private members club. A subscription,$4.99 a month. And people get extra episodes. You and I go down memory lane together. We're going to be starting a diary. I'm doing murder mysteries. It's quite fun. Yeah. And do you think of yourself as the father in this family? No. What do you think? How interesting. I don't see myself as a patriarchal figure at all.

48:59And it's quite, did I tell you this? I think I did tell you this on YouTube at the moment. and we're going to be telling you about our presence on YouTube shortly. But on YouTube at the moment, if you love theatre, you can see a show, a charity show, that I devised and introduced at the Orange Tree Theatre in Richmond in South London last year, and it's been put out on YouTube. It's got all sorts of wonderful stars, many Rosebud alumni like Robert Lindsay, Anne Reid, Stephen Prye, Penelope Wilton, Judy Dench. Actually, it is the Rosebud cast. talking about their experience of being in the play Twelfth Night.

49:39It's huge fun. It's had rave reviews. It's wonderful. You go to YouTube. You'll find it for free. You look up Orange Tree Theatre or Twelfth Night The Reunion. There it is. If you want to give a donation to the Orange Tree Theatre, wonderful. But it's there for free. But I watched it and I was shocked because I looked, I felt, like a doddering old man. I didn't sound like one, but I looked like one. and I found that a shocking experience because in my head you know sometimes how you say to people oh somebody wrote in and said oh we think of you as Giles' niece and I don't see myself as an uncle I see myself as a contemporary it's very strange in our heads that's how we see ourselves we see ourselves as we were then I look in the shaving mirror in the morning and suddenly the boy disappears and at best I see my father or my mother at worst I see the wrinkles the blotchiness the bleary eyes the roomy bleary eyes the humped shoulders it's a nightmare yeah so you've got to keep the cream on your face more often indeed we're recording this on a day when I've been in the this morning studio so I feel I look relatively boyish is it oil of ole you're using Michelle uses oil of Olay and said to me years ago, around the time, 52 years ago, you should be moisturising and you should listen to your wife.

51:09It's never too late to start, Charles. You could start tonight. I could start tonight. Yeah. It doesn't take long. No. But tonight, when Michelle is in the bathroom, I am downstairs at that dining room table owned by my great-grandfather writing today's diary. but what you should do is take a pot of moisturiser Michelle you could do this and put it on the table and then while you're writing the diary you just put a bit on your cheeks at the same time yeah while you're thinking about it yeah you often everyone usually pats their face at some point when they're trying to work something out and in this case while you're doing it you could put some nice moisturiser on your face you look a lot younger well the message is listen to your wife and if you want a shorter message listen to Harriet.

51:57I'm surrounded by brilliant beautiful good women and I hope all the listeners who are listening are beautiful good brilliant people. I think they are. I think they are. It's been great fun. If you want to join the Rosebud family you simply go to www.patreon.com forward slash Rosebud. If you want to write to us what's our address hello at rosebudpodcast.com lovely there's a website as well that you simply go to rosebudpodcast.co.uk where there's a list of all the hundred and more guests we've had we'll soon be on youtube we'll tell you more about that this is well this is the rosebud world we love having you as part of it cue the music oh shit it's all together together okay all together now one two three and if you're listening at home as you're falling asleep say i know this is ridiculous but they said let's all do it together let's have the world at the same time saying this one two three cue the music

53:23Thank you.

53:45and my friend and producer Harriet Jane. The show is produced by Harriet Jane for Plain Jane Productions. And, oh, this week we had a treat. Michelle Brandreth dropped in.