More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries episode 39

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0:37No affiliation with Novo Nordisk, Inc., the only U.S. source of FDA-approved semaglutide. Not available in all 50 U.S. states. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades, or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market.

1:36I love April. It's April, by the way. If you're listening to more Rosebud in real time, some people listen to these episodes months later after we've done them. But you hear that mmm in the background. That is because it's a Tuesday. and so my colleague and producer and friend and muse and zesty bestie is with me. It's Harriet Jane. How are you, Harriet? I'm fine. Sorry, I always forget you shouldn't really make a noise before you've been introduced, should you? You shouldn't be going, hmm. Well, people will know it's you. It's true. It's you. I'm always here. She's always here. Sometimes she's off mic because she's busy twiddling the knobs and thinking, I'm going to edit that bit.

2:12Oh gosh, she is going on. But today, she's very much on mic because it's a Tuesday. And she's in good form. Can I tell you something? I've never taken a day off, a sick day, my whole career. I am thrilled to hear that. Isn't that mad? I don't think I've ever got up and thought I can't go to work. I just soldier on. So I'm always here. I thought my admiration for you could know no further bounds. It now goes up even more. I love that. I love that. Join the club. really because i have never taken a day off for being sick what happens if you don't feel well you go on you struggle on and as you transmit your illness made a fetish of it you know i think i told you on the day my father died i was pleased that i had work to do that evening because i felt i was going to deliver well it's funny the day my mum died i was determined to go to school the following day and I actually didn't make it one day and I went the next day that wasn't a sickie that was no that was a day off that's a now you're allowed compassionate leave it probably goes on for a long time and I think that is good I probably shouldn't have gone straight back to school but no I tend to be here I don't often there's not a day that I ring in and say Giles I didn't make it apart from the day I forgot to come remember that I was sitting in this very room because we're recording this episode of More Rosebud at Grosvenor House in London's Park Lane in Mayfair.

3:48And I came in here eager because I look forward enormously, A, to seeing you, Harriet, but B, also because I love being part of the Rosebud family and I'm looking forward to it. And I sat here alone and eventually I texted you, didn't I? Saying, where are you? You called me. I called you. Yeah. As soon as I saw your name, you know when you get that thing, the name comes up and you suddenly, it all makes sense. and I picked up, hi Charles. Yeah, so if I'm not here, it's because I've forgotten, not because I've got the flu. Oh, exactly. So I don't believe in the flu. No. I mean, obviously this is ridiculous because sometimes people are really ill and you can't go to work.

4:25It's actually really annoying hearing people going on about how they're not ill because you might be ill. Boasting about how great we feel. We feel awful, we're just at work. Exactly. We feel that work has to be delivered and what has to be delivered too is saying thank you to people who've been in touch with us. if you want to send us an email it's very easy the address is simply hello at rosebudpodcast.com hello at rosebudpodcast.com who's been in touch with us this week um someone called caroline hopkins with a fun email that actually does make reference to ill health interestingly enough and it says is it it's an amazing first line i think you're going to love it hello from the Arctic Circle.

5:05I do love it. We've never heard that before. Hello from the Arctic Circle. Yes. Wow. She says, Caroline writes, I'm on the Hurtigruten mailboat sailing from Kirkenes, 283 miles within the Arctic Circle, 15 miles from the Russian border to Bergen through the fjords, hoping to see some spectacular scenery and if we are very lucky the northern lights so i think this is a boat that goes up the coast of norway delivering mail and you can as a customer book yourself a cabin on there and off you go and it's a kind of affordable way to see the northern lights without going on a cruise or whatever it is lovely caroline continues however we're currently sailing on the Barents Sea over the top bit of Norway and it's a little rough.

5:58Earlier the waves were two and a half to three meters high and they're expecting double that later during the night. She's writing this on the boat in the night. The only thing that is keeping me and my tummy calm as I lie in my cabin is listening to Rosebud. I'm a subscriber to the Rosebud family and it is comforting to think that you are there. I think it might be a long night, so I'm very pleased to have you with me. Tomorrow is another day and I'm looking forward to the next stage of our adventure. Thank you, Harriet and Giles. You literally lifesavers. Love, Caroline. P.S. I just tried a fisherman's friend, a lozenge which fishermen find comforting, apparently.

6:43I think I'll stick to you she says isn't that amazing that is amazing it's it's very actually it's moving it's lovely to feel the people you know the the arctic swell she's consoling herself with rosebud i know i wrote back to her that night and said good luck and let me know how it goes and she sent me some photos actually which i should dig out but um i loved the thought that she was up there all that way away still listening to rosebud and that we were able to comfort her and stop her worrying about her tummy and her seasickness. You remember that I, back in the 1980s, wrote the scripts for a double act called Hinge and Bracket.

7:21I do. Doctor of Adney Hinge and Dame Hilda Bracket. They were two blokes who pretended to be elderly ladies and were very, very convincing. But I do remember Patrick Fife regularly saying, oh yes, I've just been sucking on a fisherman's friend. It does make me feel a lot better. Anyway, thank you, Caroline, for that extraordinary... So let's have a competition for who can write to us from the most unusual place. I love it. Yeah. What about an astronaut going in the International Space Station? We haven't had an astronaut yet. No. On Rosebud. Let's get an astronaut and get, I mean, can we give Caroline a prize of some kind anyway?

8:02We can. Send her one of my fun books. Yes. With one of our Rosebud bookmarks. You know, I've got some Rosebud bookmarks. Oh, great idea. Yeah. And a pack of Fisherman's Friends. Can you get her address from her? I can. When she reaches Dry Land. And we'll send her that as a present to say well done. So you are the winner so far, Caroline Hopkins, of the most unusual address from which we've written to Rosebud. Anyone else in an unusual place who wants to write to us, feel free. Yeah. What is our address? Sometimes people send things here. They do. It's actually quite good. Which is rather fun.

8:36You can actually write to us. It's simply Rosebud, Grosvenor House, Park Lane, London, W1. It's probably a postcode as well, but we don't need to worry about that. No, it'll get there. I think I told you, didn't I, in Judi Dench's kitchen, Dame Judi Dench, it simply says Dame Judi Dench, England, and the postman delivered it to her door. That's brilliant, isn't it? It's good going, isn't it? Love it. So, are we going on with the mention of Judi Dench takes us neatly on to the diaries? Yes. Because we're continuing with my diaries from yesteryear, and we're back in 1974. for. I'm setting up the Oxford Theatre Festival.

9:13I've managed to find somebody, Ray Cooney, famous farce writer, actor himself and producer, who's putting up the money. I've had the trauma of losing Rita Tushingham, then a film star, to play my St. Joan. She's been replaced by Julia Foster. I still have problems because Celia Johnson had said she'd be in a play, but hasn't liked any of the plays that I've offered her. So at the moment, I have no play for Celia Johnson. Ian Carmichael Ivor is doing an amusing play called Springtime for Henry. So, we're getting there. Very interesting. But this is the Saturday, the 8th of June, 1974. It's my wedding anniversary.

9:54Our first wedding anniversary. Oh, congratulations. We are at the Grand Hotel Brighton. Last night, we went back to the Empress with Simon and Veronica. They were the witnesses at our wedding. and the Empress was where we went to have lunch on our wedding day and recreated our wedding breakfast of a year ago. Today, we came here by train. Michelle is having a bath and Noel has just telephoned. Noel was Noel Davis, my associate director of the Oxford Theatre Festival. Noel has just telephoned. Room service is bringing up the champagne. Good news. It's the best. Background. Eight days ago, Friday the 31st of May, After Romeo and Juliet at the Redgrave Theatre Farnham, we stayed overnight with William and Rachel Douglas Hume at East Meehan.

10:46We arrived late, no sign of Rachel. William offered us bread and cheese and shambled about the kitchen, affecting to be totally lost. He attempted to slice the bread using the blunt edge of the knife. Michelle saw through the ploy but took over all the same. While she fixed the snack, William took me to his study. Together, bleakly, we contemplated his desk, piled high with heavily-thumbed old scripts, his unperformed works. Nothing here for Celia, alas. We munched our bread and cheese, drained our glasses, and went up to bed. As his bedside reading, William took up with him a book he had just started, a biography of Sybil Hathaway, the Dame of Sark, a gallant lady who, throughout the Second World War and the German occupation of her island remained defiant and heartwarmingly British.

11:42At breakfast, he said to us, there might be something in this. Five days later, by the end of Wednesday, he had finished the first draft. Celia Johnson got it last night. She has read it. Noel has spoken to her. It's a definite yes. Oh, gosh. Third time lucky. Sunday the 23rd of June 1974 Who needs sleep? Over the past six days in total I have not slept for more than 16 hours Tuesday morning I recorded Jack D 'Amanio precisely It's an afternoon programme but we have to do it in the morning or the star would not be capable and then started a 40 hour non-stop stint sorting all of the Oxford Theatre Festival print and publicity including a return trip to the printer in Bournemouth on Thursday night I slept on Friday night after we went with Simon Cadell to see Roy Detrice in Brief Lives at the Mayfair Theatre wonderful I slept again but on Saturday after Uncle Wilfred and Cousin Beryl's wedding at Southwark Cathedral we went to Oxford for the Trinity Ball and were up until dawn no sleep at all I'm now back in London woozily writing this as I preside over the fourth National Scrabble Championship, sitting alongside my friend, Dr.

13:04Bob Birchfield, New Zealand editor of the Oxford English Dictionary. Dr. Birchfield looks a lot more bleary-eyed than I do, and he has red scratch marks all over his face. I asked him what they were. He said, my wife did that. I'm afraid we've been fighting. We fight a lot. Gosh. Gosh. That's not great, is it? Isn't great. Remember how young I was? He was very distinguished, this man. He was a lexicographer and editor of the supplement to the OED from the 50s to the 80s. And I think this first marriage of his, I knew him well. I'd founded the National Scrabble Championship and I got him to be the sort of presiding judge.

13:49And I fear that his marriage, well, as you can see, unraveled. Marriage isn't easy. Life isn't easy. Oh, the next paragraph says, and how will the marriage go between Uncle Wilfred and Cousin Beryl? Aunty Hope died a year and a month ago. There was much behind-the-hand muttering at the reception about Uncle Wilfred marrying again so soon. And marrying Beryl, Aunty Hope's cousin and best friend. Pa provoked nervous laughter from the crowd with his toast. Let us raise our glasses to Wilfred and Beryl and the triumph of experience over hope. so your uncle married his late wife's cousin who you called cousin beryl she was his late wife's cousin it's quite incestuous and her best friend beryl dean was a hugely distinguished embroiderer oh it's this lady president i think of the royal society of needlework um you have seen at our home the embroidery she did of twelfth night scene from twelfth night and there's another one I must show you that we've also got upstairs called Power.

14:59But she's famous for ecclesiastical embroidery. You can see it places like Southwark Cathedral, the Royal Chapel at Windsor, Coventry Cathedral. It's all over the place. Wonderful copes as well as altar frontals. She was the same sort of age as her first cousin, Aunty Hope, and had been therefore known Aunty Hope all Aunty Hope's life. Aunty Hope married Uncle Wilfred, of course. He had a sister also called Beryl, interestingly enough, who was married to the person who played Jack Woolley in The Archers. That's by the by. That is just by the by. Uncle Wilfred, I think, loved Aunty Hope. Aunty Hope dies.

15:39And, of course, he'd spent all his life seeing Aunty Hope's best friend, who's Aunty Hope's cousin. Maybe they were a little bit similar. They were first cousins after all. So he decided to propose to her. She had never been married. Wow. She was a lady of riper years by then in her 60s or 70s. And they got married. And I think they were very happy together. That's lovely. I'm really thrilled for Cousin Beryl because nice to have some happiness late in life. My father's joke is quite amusing because clearly, you know, Beryl had been around a while and she was more theatrical. And she may even have been a year older than Auntie Hope.

16:16So that could have been the good joke, you know, the triumph of experience over hope. Anyway Very clever Quite clever My father thought he was amusing And he always was amusing But sometimes it wasn't totally appropriate Well all the funniest things aren't totally appropriate Absolutely Yeah You know That is the secret If you can dare to do it Going as far as you can That's how you make people laugh And then that little bit further Yeah You don't make people laugh with pedestrian observations You know We know that that's going to be the challenge for us when we hit Edinburgh in August. You know, people are already buying tickets.

16:53It's working out where the edge is. Ah, yeah. Giles. Sometimes I misjudge that. We don't want you falling over it. We want you flying from it. We want you reaching the edge. Hey! Over you go. Wednesday, the 17th of July, 1974. The IRA mainland bombings are getting worse. On the 17th of June, Westminster Hall. Goodness. Today, the 17th of July, the Tower of London. Gosh. One killed, dozens injured. We are carrying on regardless. I'd forgotten that. Tower of London, I didn't know about that. Isn't that interesting? Somebody killed there as well. Yeah. Wow. Noel was peeved about our five nights away in Cumberland.

17:38Oh, that was we were celebrating our wedding anniversary by going to Cumberland. So I played down the delights of the near-perfect Sharrow Bay, hotel and gave over the whole day to catching up on everything with him at six we left michelle with oscar neville and rosie oh they were our three kittens that we'd acquired at icarus our favorite greek restaurant in beaker street and went on the razzle this is noel and me first to macready's club then to le jardin des gourmets then on to jerry's club we drank we ate noel told stories. We drank some more. He is amazing. His fund of material is limitless, mostly filthy or theatrical, but not always.

18:23He has a lot of royal stories. For example, Queen Mary during the war meeting a small boy who'd been bombed out of his home. Where do you live normally? asked the Queen. Back of Selfridges, answered the urchin. What about you, Mrs? Queen Mary, then resident at Marlborough House replied, back of Forthnams. I love it. Tuesday, the 6th of August, 1974. The Oxford Theatre Festival, My Baby, opened tonight. Five plays, plus Sundays. Sunday nights including Bernard Miles, Paul Schofield, Larry Adler, etc. The theatre was packed. The advance is healthy. The opening show, Springtime for Henry, is a huge success.

19:07It's wonderful to watch Ian Carmichael in action It all looks effortless, natural, easy, spontaneous In fact, it is meticulously crafted He reproduces the same movements, inflections, gestures every time Fine-tuning them until he achieves the laugh he's after Tonight, just before the final curtain, he tilted his hat forward He said it would signal to the audience that the show was over and they could applaud. It did. And they cheered. Oh, brilliant. It was such a brilliant... He was exiting and he did this. He'd warned us that he might. He'd never done it at rehearsal. As he was about to leave, he stood in the doorway and leaving.

19:54And just from behind, he pushed the hat forward. So it went over his eyes. And that indicated, wah! And everyone cheered. Oh, wow. Charles is crying, Abra.

20:06I can't believe you can cry about the way someone pushed a hat forward in 1974. It was so wonderful. I know, but it's amazing. Wonderful, happy things. You can remember that. Oh, it was one of the...

20:23Giles. Giles is crying, everyone, and he can't speak. And he's crying and laughing at the same time. I'm crying and laughing. I've seen him doing a lot. What that was, what defines a star? It's doing everything well and that little bit extra. And he did everything effortlessly well and this is part of that little bit extra. And that's what we look for. Lots of very brilliant people out there, but what gives us that little bit extra? That's what we will be looking for from you, Harriet Jane, when we get to our show in Edinburgh up memory lane with the twist of Rosebud and Harriet Jane. Okay. Afterwards, we all went out to the cottage.

21:11Barbara Murray is renting for a party. Barbara Murray was the leading lady. She was incredibly beautiful, glamorous and chic. Wow. Only Cheryl Kennedy didn't stay. She was playing the young girl in it. She is racing back each night to the arms of Tom Courtney, who was a lover at the time. who I now know. Do you know Sir Tom Courtney? Yes. Wonderful actor. I must ask him to be on Rosebud. We haven't had enough theatrical nights. No, we should. We've had virtually all the theatrical days. Yeah, we should, we should. Ian Carmichael, as happy as Larry, drove me to the party in the Rolls Royce. He was pleasantly squiffy.

21:47Later, he drove me back. Oh. He was completely sozzled. Gosh. I'm writing this in my room at the Randolph Hotel. I'm happy to report. More tears More tears

22:08I'm happy to report We have a hit Oh well done Giles There's nothing quite like it When every seat in the house is sold When you put up the sign that says Sold out Honestly It's the greatest I think it's the greatest high I've known It's like winning on election night. You know, when Michelle and my daughter Afro won at the last general election, who knows what happens next time. The last time she won. Yay! Yes. It's the big moment. Brilliant.

22:49Have you ever been stuck on a weight loss plateau, trying everything and anything you can to lose that extra weight and reach peak health? We've all been there. But Noom's unlocked the secret to reaching the mountaintop. Go in micro. The Noom GLP-1 microdose program starts at$99 and is delivered to your door in 7 days. Start your microdose GLP-1 journey today at Noom.com. That's N-O-O-M dot com. Noom. Microchanges. Big results. Noom GLP-1-RX program involves healthy diet, exercise, and support. Individual results may vary. Meds and personalization based on clinical need. Not reviewed by FDA for safety, efficacy, or quality.

23:26No affiliation with Novo Nordisk, Inc., the only U.S. source of FDA-approved semaglutide. Not available in all 50 U.S. states. Save on tropical flavors at Whole Foods Market during the Savor the Tropics event, with yellow sales signs highlighting seasonal finds throughout the store. The produce section is bursting with pineapples, mangoes, and kiwis at their juiciest. Grill up fresh seafood paired with tropical fruit marinades, or grab and enjoy the spicy Hawaiian pizza, huli huli chicken, and more. Finish with a sweet slice of mango yuzu chantilly cake. Savor the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market.

24:05Friday the 9th of August 1974. Richard Nixon has resigned as President of the United States. Gerald Ford has succeeded him. In Oxford, these events have gone virtually unnoticed. In the neverland of theatre, where I now dwell, outside considerations matter not a jot. I recall Beverly Nichols telling me the story about John Gielgud in 1940 It was at the time of Britain's darkest hour when the nation faced the very real threat of a German invasion Beverly Nichols and John Gielgud were fellow guests at a country house party On the Sunday morning, Beverly got up early to go and buy the newspapers only to find that Gielgud had forestalled him and was already sitting in the drawing room, surrounded by the newspapers of the day, their front page headlines double-decked with tidings of disaster.

25:00In the middle of the morass of newsprint sat John Gielgud, ashen-faced. What on earth has happened? demanded Nichols anxiously. The worst, the worst, wailed Gielgud, shaking his head in despair. The very worst. Edith has had the most dreadful notices. Brilliant. This was, you know, our darkest hour. The country was about to be invaded and all the great actors were thinking about were the reviews for Edith Evans. Friday the 23rd of August 1974. Sir John Clements is both charming and a nightmare. Every night is now the same. We have dinner with him, during which, with a face like thunder, he tears us off a strip.

25:44Everything is wrong, especially the costumes, especially the set, and then, wreathed in smiles, he regales us with his favourite anecdotes. After dinner, we meet up with Julia, Julia Foster, in the Randolph Hotel and sit around in a circle worrying about the play. Sir John and Julia sit side by side holding hands. She then goes off to bed. I walk her to the lift while she tells me that Sir John is sweet but as a director, no help at all. I return to Sir John who tells me that Julia is sweet, but as an actress, no good at all. Tonight, he was at his worst. We must have drunk two bottles of port between us.

26:29He's determined to postpone the opening night. It was Tuesday. I've agreed to make it Thursday. He says we may not even be able to open then. She can't do it. And the set's not built yet. He's right on both counts. Oh dear. At 4am we all stumbled off to bed. At 9.30am Sir John rang Noel's bedroom. Is that Noel Davis? He growled. Why the hell aren't you down here? Is that you Sir John? Where are you? In the foyer? No you fool. I'm in the fucking theatre where I belong. Oh gosh. So this is the St. Joan play. This is the fable St. Joan with his distinguished cast The youngest member of the cast was Charles Dance.

27:18I know, I didn't know you'd worked with him. Yeah, 50 and more years ago. Julia Foster, I'm not so sure how much she worked after this. We'll come on to that. Oh dear, Charles. Anyway, oh God. Ending careers, starting careers, it's all happening. Sunday the 25th of August 1974. Thursday night it was 4am. Friday night it was 2am. Last night it was 6am. I blame Simon Cadell. He is here and he encouraged him. First, he got Sir John to take us right through his production of St. Joan, scene by scene, with Sir John telling us what's wrong with who and why, and Simon throwing in his two cents worth.

28:00And then at around 3am, he got Sir John to start showing us card tricks. He's a brilliant magician, brilliant. Michelle is here. She is pregnant, only just it's our secret, but nonetheless has spent the day and half the night sizing the set you know what sizing the set means? Painting the glue onto the set putting the size on it Wednesday the 28th of August 1974 First night of the trials of Oscar Wilde Tom Baker he was our star he played the part of Oscar Wilde, he played Rasputin in the film Nicholas and Alexandria but this was before his success as Doctor Who. Yeah. Tom Baker is quite mad. An eccentric, a loner.

28:46He travels without luggage except for a toothbrush. He looks like Harpo Marx, but he has a wonderful voice and the play works, almost. Nigel Stock is excellent. Supper with Ray and Noel at the Salacheno Restaurant. Ray is frustrated. Ian Carmichael doesn't want to take springtime into town and won't be persuaded. He says the play isn't robust enough. Ray doesn't think tonight's piece, the Oscar Wilde play, has transfer potential without a star and he's dreading tomorrow's opening of St. Joan. Aren't we all? Friday the 30th of August 1974. The opening of St. Joan. It wasn't bad. It sounded good.

29:32It was intelligently spoken. The set is a disaster. Dreary amateur. The costumes have the feel of 1066 and all that, but for me, the real horror of tonight was that during the interval, the management of the new theatre insisted on showing advertisements on the safety curtain, including one that featured James Villiers, our Earl of Warwick, as a silly-ass, chinless wonder advertising Benson and Hedges cigarettes. Oh, God. Julia Foster acquitted herself well John Standing is a perfect Dauphin Villiers strong On radio we'd win awards Anyway, we opened, it's done And the company party is done too All very jolly, all very drunken At about three when everyone had gone to bed Including Sir John Clements I was left with a trio of sozzled actors John Standing, James Villiers And Villiers friend Ronnie Fraser who'd come up from London for the first night.

30:36Fraser passed out on the sofa and then somehow, standing in Villiers, started talking about money and discovered that one of them was getting£35 a week and the other was getting£40 when I told everybody that everybody was getting exactly the same. Villiers got a serviette and strolled on it. I, Giles Brandreth, bastard producer of the Oxford Theatre Festival, hereby agree to pay Jay Villiers, actor,£40 per week and together withstanding chased me round and round and round the lounge of the hotel until I signed. Child, is there any dastardly trick you haven't pulled on this Oxford Theatre Festival?

31:23I had to make it happen. I had to get it in on budget. You know you wanted to be a con artist. No. You are. Well, I was obviously a producer. I am returning to London this weekend to write the night book of Easter fun because I was also writing children's books at the same time Wednesday the 18th of September 1974 last night at the new theatre the opening of The Little Hut tonight at the Playhouse the opening of The Dame of Sark the rollercoaster of The Little Hut continued to the last having lost our director oh I've missed this out I can't read all of this to you but our original director had lost the confidence of the cast and he'd been replaced in fact by our leading lady Geraldine McCune's husband who was a director and also was the head of RADA the Royal Academy of Rating Art anyway having lost our director last night our leading man decided to lose his nerve Gerald Harper sat whimpering in his dressing room telling me it was all too much.

32:31He wasn't ready. He wasn't up to it. He couldn't go on. I did my best to boast to him telling him how wonderful he was how the audience had warmed him because his personality is so warm etc. All tosh of course. And then 15 minutes before curtain up Noel came in told him to pull himself together and as he went on whimpering slapped him across the face. If you don't go out there and give the performance of a lifetime you'll never work again. Gerald went out and did his best He's fine He's just not in the same league as Geraldine McEwan and James Villiers That's all And no one is in the same league as Celia Johnson She is extraordinary She appears to do absolutely nothing But when she comes on, something magical somehow happens She's so touching in this When I visit her in her dressing room, she's always sitting quietly at the dressing table playing patience.

33:32She has very few visitors. I've noticed that the stars have the fewest visitors. People are nervous about knocking on their doors. Noel does a very funny impression of Celia Johnson playing St. Joan in her kipped home county's tones. Taxi, I need to go to Roar, stopping off if you don't mind awfully at Peter Jones. Sunday the 13th of October 1974 Dust has now settled on the general election Labour 319 Conservatives 276 Liberals 13 Nationalists etc 27 Labour has an overall majority of three Harold Olsen carries on So it seems to Simon Cadell We had dinner at Alécu de France Simon revealed that he doesn't wear underpants and had sex with a girl in the lavatory on the train.

34:29And then in brackets, why is my life so tame? The big excitement for me, tomorrow sees the publication of games for trains, planes and wet days. Amazingly, there's no mention of sex in the lavatory. Do you ever not wear underpants? No. Yeah, I always wear pants. So do I. Yeah. I mean, I have a friend who introduced me to the concept of, what is it called? What is the phrase for it? Going commando. Yeah. Yeah. And she always went commando on a Sunday. On a Sunday? Why? Well, I said, that's the day you should go to church. That's the day you should put your pants on. She said, it's more exciting going to church, going commando.

35:16You're taking a risk. I bet it is. But then, she said, as we got to know each other better, I'm going to come on to on Saturdays as well now. And she said, and everyone just finished this, I mean, it's ridiculous. I said, what about Wednesdays? Is it half-day closing? She said, if you want, I'll take them off at lunchtime. Oh, gosh, she sounds wild. She was wild. Oh, someone told me, that I didn't know, that if you're a man wearing lycra, cycling lycra, you're not wearing underwear. You cannot wear underwear with that tight stuff because it would all get bunched up and stuff. So if you see a, what are they called?

35:53Mammal. I'm putting funny faces. Middle-aged man in... Lycra. Legging, in Lycra. They haven't got underwear on. Middle-aged man in Lycra, mammal. Mammal, yeah. They haven't got underwear on. I don't think it's very nice. Oh, it doesn't bother me. But through Lycra, won't it all show? We don't want the... Yeah, you do, Charles. There's no point of wearing it. Well, it's not. It's because it helps recycling. I mean, I don't mind. Oh, you don't mind? No. Oh, how interesting. I mean, you can't see, can you? They're on their bikes. Well, no, but when they get off their bikes. Yeah. Are we raising the tone or lowering the tone?

36:27I'm not quite sure. I think we've really lowered it here. We've gone straight from your diaries into... To the googly's. The googly's. The googly's, aren't they? The gingle gang googly. Yeah, the gingle googly's, yeah. I've got a couple of good stories, actually, on this theme, but maybe they'll have to wait for another day. But so Simon Cadell didn't wear pants. Elaborate on that, please. Simon revealed that he doesn't wear underpants. Yeah. Obviously, we had dinner at L 'Equid de France. Now, I'm interested that he, because Michelle was usually with me. And I'm not sure that's a story you would have told in front of her.

37:05Really? Michelle would love that. I don't know. Well, look, we're talking about 1974. Yeah. And we're talking about somebody. It's his story, not ours. and since he died in the 1990s, he can't be here to share it with us. But what is interesting is, though he was my best friend, and he really was my best friend, and I think he did have quite a lively private life. Really? Sex life. So what, this thing about having sex with a girl in the loo on the train? This is before we were married, before he was married. I think he had quite a lively sex life. he didn't really share much of that with me i'm wondering why that was maybe didn't feel i would be comfortable with it but you see obviously i wrote it and then i put why is my life so tame because i did wear underpants because i felt it was probably brought up because you change your underpants every day don't you you put them in the laundry every day well i do of course child but you don't necessarily change your jeans every day oh yeah but i mean that's if you didn't wear underpants you just put your jeans in the wash more often oh you think you'd oh i hope so i think you would oh i oh i hope so but of course he's not wearing underpants for easy access for easy action really yeah um maybe just like the feel of it that the wind whistling up there it's quite it's quite fun it's like swimming in the nude have you ever tried that skinny dipping i have that feels great yeah it does feel good doesn't it good great yeah I think we should all be I'm sorry to think we should record the podcast naked I don't think that's appropriate let's move on I suggested that not Giles can I say if Giles suggested that it would be well and truly cancelled whenever these loose remarks or observations are made they are not made by me though I get the blame from them really?

38:59no I think I usually raise them you do raise them you raise them charmingly because I'm a lady I'm allowed to say what I like you certainly are why is my life so tame oh by the way i should say to people if they want ever to tune into family secrets oh that's where it really gets fruited we share some of this sort of thing on family secrets and rather unfairly we make people pay for that that's our sunday supplement isn't it but it's like a premium rate phone line i think you should pay for that it's not very much only five or a month it's very cheap if people want to go to the sort of content we're putting out.

39:33What do they go to? The X-rated. What do they go to? www.patreon.com forward slash Rosebud. And then for five or a month or something like that you get the Sunday edition as well. You can hear all sorts of things. You can hear all sorts of things. So, that was Simon then. Well done him. I don't know if the train in the loo, the loo in the train. I wouldn't want that at all. No, I don't even like going in there to do a pee. Oh, also nowadays, in his day, at least you could lock it. Yeah. Now you don't know which button you're pressing. That would be awful. You know, those doors that open. We don't want that.

40:06You don't want that. We do not encourage sex in public lavatories. We don't. We don't. It's not nice. It's not nice. So we're not encouraging that. Get a room. Get a room. Get a room. Oh, in my case, I've seen this. Get a life. Get a life. Okay. Because the next sentence in my diary, written on the 13th of October, 1974, when I'd been married for a year, the big excitement for me, Tomorrow sees the publication of games for trains, planes, and wet days. Amazingly, there's no mention of sex in the lavatory.

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42:01states.

42:04Thursday, the 17th of October, 1974. A crowded 48 hours. Yesterday, at 12 noon, in the Cinderella Bar at the London Palladium, the launch party for Ice Cream for Ice Cream, my illustrated history of pantomime. Good grief, we've suddenly moved on. Oxford Theatre Festival done. I'm now publishing a book. Wow. A good line-up. Richard Goulden, Gordon and Bunny Jay, a seasoned pantomime double act, Claude Zola, the pantomime cat from a distinguished family of panto animals, Pat Kirkwood, the post-war principal boy, plus husband, Hubert Gregg, Richard Hearn, Mr Pastry, Danny LaRue, who pointed out that the picture we have in the book of him is cabaret drag, not as a panto dame.

42:53Cyril Fletcher plus Jilly, his daughter. All jolly. I am pleased that I shall be able to tell my grandchildren I once had lunch with Mr. Pastry. Who is Mr. Pastry, Grandpa? Have you heard of Mr. Pastry? No, I was just about to ask the same question. Who is Mr. Pastry? You have not heard of Richard Hearn, Mr. Pastry? No. He sounds intriguing. Oh, he was a fabulous children's entertainer. Though Mr Pastry, the character he created, he was like a silly old man who had a moustache and a sort of long, sort of straggly grey hair and danced around very amusingly. You can still catch him if you go to YouTube, programmes like The Good Old Days, he appeared.

43:34He was very entertaining. He had his own kids' programme. He was a huge children's star. Do you remember from a later generation, your generation probably watched Johnny Ball, Zoe Ball's dad. I loved him. On television. Did you watch, what was he called, Hart? Derek Hart? Tony. Tony Hart. Tony Hart. Do you remember Tony Hart? I sent a picture in to Tony Hart. There we are. Go back two generations before that. This was a children's entertainer who, through the 1950s, was on children's telly all the time. He was huge. But what was he doing with pastry? He was Mr. Pastry. That was his name. But was he covered in pastry?

44:09He often, there was lots of slapstick. So he'd be cooking with pastry and get all over the place. he'd be putting up wallpaper and the base would fall over him. Brilliant. So he was very funny, very skilful as well. 7pm. Can I just ask, so that was a lunch for your panto book? That was a lunch for my book about pantomime. And you said a cat came. Oh no, someone who dressed up as a cat. I thought you invited a cat to the lunch. I thought, well behaved cat. Don't ask me why. But I had a thing about pantomime. I still do to an extent. And as we'll see later in the diaries, I eventually appear in pantomime.

44:44But I was interested in the history of pantomime and did this book. I'd done two little books, one called Discovering Pantomime, and this bigger book that many people who are interested in pantomime still come up and say, I've got your book. They mean this book. It's an illustrated history of pantomime with excerpts from pantomimes going right back to early Victorian times and before that. There were families who specialised in being the cow. Yeah, because you get two people. Yes. The back and the front. Or being a dog or being a cat. or being a kangaroo or being animals in pantomime. Families like the Zola family who carried on from one generation to another.

45:22Oh, they were all cats, were they? They were cats. A long line of cats. A long line of cats dressed in cat costumes. Remember, I'd been appearing in Snoopy the dog. So that was of interest to me. And they would walk. They wouldn't be able to do this now. As dressed as cats, they would walk around the auditorium, walk around the circle and the dress circle on the balustrade. Oh, they properly could be like cats. Dick Whittington and his cat, it's a major part. You're paid serious money playing the cat. Yeah, it's a big thing, yeah. Jack and the Beanstalk, there's a cow that's sold. Yeah. Critical to the whole show.

45:54Critical. So the two people, usually a husband and wife, playing the cow, they are paid seriously. They belong to the Zola family. I had one of the great cats called Zola. The cat. The cat. so he could jump up onto the balustrade and walk along it, could he? Yes. That's absolutely brilliant. I'd love to have seen that. God, I've really missed out. You have really missed out. 7pm. First night of the Little Hutt at the Duke of Yorks. So a couple of my plays from Oxford had transferred to the West End of London. The Little Hutt was one. The Dame of Sark was the other. Congratulations, John. Congratulations.

46:33So yes. That's really good. Whatever age I am, 25, I've got West End Hits. This is amazing. 7pm, first night of the little hut at the Duke of Yorks. The moment when the hatchet is thrown across the stage went horribly wrong. Oh dear. The dagger popped out of the tree a good 10 seconds before it was supposed to, with the sound effect following behind, pointlessly, incomprehensibly, as far as the audience was concerned. So what happens when you throw something across the stage? You actually fling the dagger, you actually drop the dagger behind you, that people think I've seen you throwing it and then appears, pops up in the tree and there's a bang noise as it comes.

47:14Well, it just went wrong. The timing all went wrong. Agony. But overall, it was fine. Gerald Harper kept his nerve and Geraldine McKeown and James Villiers, well, they were stylish and funny. The notices are not bad, so fingers crossed. afterwards we went for supper shea bumble dawson she was an award-winning theater and film producer she was an award-winning theater and film costume designer afterwards we went for supper shea bumble dawson me and michelle noel and margaret rawlings actress jenardine mccune our star and hugh crutwell bumble is so called because she does look like a bumblebee and dresses like one and has dressed every leading lady you can think of.

48:04They all love her because she makes them look divine and feel comfortable and because she is a comfort to be with. She admitted finding Marilyn Monroe a challenge on The Prince and the Showgirl. She was obliged to make Marilyn tops for her frocks in triplicate because Marilyn kept spilling food down them. You learn things from this. There's hot gossip admittedly from the 1950s. Marilyn Monroe's a messy eater. Yeah, well, I think she was in a difficult place. I don't associate that with not being able to eat properly. Oh, I don't know. Maybe she'd been drinking. Maybe she was on substances. And she was unhappy.

48:44And that film with Laurence Olivier. She's very good in it, actually. But spilling food. Have you ever spilt food? Are you a mess eater? I think I've got that in my wheelhouse. Not always, but I can drop food. I've got that in my wheelhouse. I can be a messy eater. Excuse me, I've got that in my wheelhouse. Is this an expression? Is this a thing? I don't know if I just made it up. I've got that in my wheelhouse. Yeah, you've got that in your wheelhouse, Giles. This is why people listen to the diaries. They say to themselves, well, it was great when he was at school and running around after all the girls.

49:22Now his career is not quite so exciting, but we're learning things about Marilyn Monroe and new turns of phrase. Harriet is on song. I'm now just worried I've made that up. I've got that in my wheelhouse, everybody. Well done. What's a wheelhouse? I've just made up a whole expression. So occasionally you have spilt food on yourself. Oh, yeah, sure. As people used to say, the Thai is often the most expensive item on the menu because you spill the soup on it. You've got to get another one. Noel was very funny and very wicked about Gerald. Geraldine screwed up her face and made lots of little squeals of delight.

49:58All jolly. And today, all jolly too. Lunch with Noel at Sheiky's. Oh, the fish restaurant. We've been there. We have. It's still going 50 years later. Making plans for next year's festival. Goodness. Radio London at the Motor Show this afternoon. Usual burbling. 7pm, the first night of the Dame of Sark at Wyndham's Theatre. Wow. Celia Johnson, playing Patience at her dressing table, seemed nervous, which I have never seen before. On stage, she was flawless. She will only do three months. Ray already has Anna Neagle in mind as a replacement. One of our actors, anticipating a long run, has had the cupboard in his dressing room equipped with a built-in armchair, somewhere comfortable for his mistress to sit in when his wife is visiting him.

50:51I think I may have named the actor, but I won't on this occasion. Afterwards, William Douglas Hume hosted a special post-show party at the Traveller's Club. Very jolly once more. The Dame of Sark is certainly a hit. I'm now a West End producer. I have two shows running with my name on the posters to prove it. It's good. I'm happy. I'm pleased. I'm grateful. And yet... Hey-ho. Good night. What a sign of... I mean, what? An achievement. But you see the and yet. Oh, I know, Giles. I mean, that's the drive. That is the drive. And isn't it interesting? I think we both still feel that. With Rosebud, it's good.

51:42And yet we can have so-and-so. We can do that. We can go here. We can go there. The downside of that, and I wonder if you're listening to it, you feel the same way. You may not. Is you're never really totally satisfied. You're never happy. You're always thinking, you can never enjoy tonight because you think tomorrow I've got to do something else, got to do something better. So there I am writing in my diary. My ambition to have a show in the West End. Celia Johnson was a huge star, particularly then. People remembered Brief Encounter. She was a major West End star. The play was a big success.

52:24It's good. I'm happy. I'm pleased. I'm grateful. and yet hey-ho good night do you sometimes feel that what i'm saying yes i definitely do at the moment i think i struggle to sort of fully appreciate the moment of things going well one of the reasons that living in the moment is a key element to finding evidence if you're always regretting the past or anticipating the future you never enjoy the moment which is why I like going to the films or like going to a play because usually I'm engrossed in it yeah um but holding on to it is so difficult we did a podcast the other day that we felt at the time was one of our best ever almost the best in that moment yeah it was the best yeah and I think we said it to one another and to the guest and we all we all hugged actually afterwards and that's good yeah to actually and I don't think I felt until I got home that evening or maybe I was in the bathroom I hadn't yet turned anything on and I was thinking oh it was so good oh and then I think now next Tuesday who've we got I know it's bad isn't it it's bad and then happily I put on more rosebud and I listened to you and I thought oh okay it's okay we're offering something different something good so we will go on developing i hope rosebud as the years go by and if you share the kind of feelings we've been expressing here about achievement and yet it's not quite enough um you can write to us about it yeah because people do do we have we read an email today yes we did we did we read the one about being on the boat so that's the competition we've set yeah so if you're in an unusual place please send us an email about it.

54:21Yeah, but not while you're driving because you can't type while you're driving. Oh, but could they dictate? Yeah, but we would like one from the space. Yep. Or a lighthouse. I like the idea of that. Oh, yes. Don't you think? Do you remember the sort of jokes you can't tell any longer? Oh, dear, what's this? Do you ask? She was only the Morse code operator's daughter, but she did it, did it, dot, dot, did it. Oh, you think you can tell that? And there's a similar one about The night housekeeper's daughter. It was all to do with flashing. I can't remember that. No, you can't tell those sorts of stories anymore.

54:57But given we've been in the 1970s, that's probably what I learned. I think it's period, period humour. It is. And this is Rosebud, where frankly, anything goes. We never knowingly upset anyone, I hope. No. We aim to give pleasure. We do, we do. We love you listening. We love you communicating with us. We hope you'll come to meet us in person. we're doing some tryouts of our Edinburgh show at the Old Sorting Office in Barnes OSO. I think you can find access to all this through our website. Barnes is in London Barnes is in London. South West London. And then we'll be all of August at the Edinburgh Fringe.

55:37You can go to their website to find out when. You can book now but you can also go to our website which is www. rosebudpodcast.co.uk that's it for more Rosebud this week another exciting guest coming up and we are aiming higher going further with Rosebud the best is yet to be that's true cue the music

56:21Thank you.

57:02The End

57:18is business and bottom line. Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. No, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at Geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Welcome back to Two Judgy Girls. It's Mary from the Bay. And it's Courtney from LA. Every week we're talking about the only things that truly matter. Bravo pop culture, reality TV, and of course our very own chaotic lives. If there's a feud, a scandal, or messy drama, we've got thoughts, lots of them.

58:01We break down all the episodes like it's our job, because honestly it kind of is. From Beverly Hills to New York, Summer House to Southern Charm, if they filmed it, you better believe we're going to talk about it. expect hot takes, unfiltered opinions, and a lot of laughter. We're like your best friends who never stop talking about TV. So pour yourself something strong, maybe a teeny or a big cup of coffee and join us every week for two judgy girls because being judgy has never been this fun. Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.