More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries episode 40

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1:09Welcome to More Rosebud. I'm Giles Branroth, and I'm speaking to you from our studio, which is in London at Grosvenor House on Park Lane. Because it's Tuesday, I'm not alone. Well, I'm never alone. But normally, we keep her under wraps. It's my producer, Harriet Jane. But on a Tuesday, we pull away the wraps and we reveal her in all her glory. Isn't that nice to see you? Lovely. I'm thrilled to see you, Harriet. And I want to say something to you that I hope will please you. I have been... Are you exhausted? I'm rather tired today, yes. I'm exhausted. The reason I'm exhausted is I've been doing maybe too much.

1:46I'm on tour again, more of that in a moment. But I've also been going to parties because this is the spring publishing season. And I've been to a number of parties, one of which I'll mention immediately. This is the centenary of the birth of Elizabeth II, born April 21st, 1926. we've been marking it here on Rosebud but also authors have been out there with books relevant to the life of Queen Elizabeth II I went to a party to help launch the book by Robert Hardman who's written an excellent biography of Elizabeth II and there were lots of people there and I said a few words introducing Robert who I like and admire and know and it's a hardback book and also there was a friend of mine Hugo Vickers who's also written a book about Elizabeth II again an Excellent book, very different.

2:38I, as you know myself, have written a book about the Queen, but it's in paperback. Poor old Queen. Yes, exactly. All of us. I mean, honestly, just cashing in on that. We are cashing in. But at the same time, what a story, and an international story, and fascinating. Anyway, I went to this party, and I was very gratified that lots of people at the party, the first thing they said after they'd said, oh, it's marvellous to be at Robert's party, they said, oh, Giles, we love Rosebud. which was lovely and then somebody said to me oh, I particularly like Rosebud on a Tuesday because that's the day you have Harriet and Harriet is so beautiful, isn't she?

3:20and I said, oh, you must have seen the flyers, the posters and he said, what are you talking about? I said, well, we're going to Edinburgh we're doing a show in Edinburgh and Harriet's going to be part of the show and it's called Up Memory Lane it's with me doing my stuff but, you know, with an added twist of Rosebud and Harriet Jane He said, no, no, no, I don't know about that. I don't know what she looks like. I said, but you just told me she's beautiful. And then he quoted a line from William Blake. And he said, yes, she's beautiful because, as William Blake puts it somewhere, exuberance is beauty.

3:53And you know I described you as my zesty bestie. That's because zest is a quality you are blessed with and have been since your teenage years. We know that because when you read from your diary on Rosebud a long time ago, you mentioned your zest even when you were very young. Well, I said you needed to find the zest in life. And that's been a thing with you, hasn't it? It is a thing, the constant search for zest. And I don't mean the rind of a citrus fruit. Although I did invest in a zester last year. You know a lemon zester? It's like a little kitchen device. It looks, it's got a little sort of a metal end with these little circles in it and you drag it over the edge of a lemon or a lime and it peels off the zest.

4:47And if a recipe says zest a lemon, I used to use a grater to do that. And then you have to kind of excavate the grater to get the zest out and it takes ages. And then I bought this lemon zester. It transforms it. So brilliant. How wonderful. Yeah, and it cost about two pounds. So you've got your own lemon zester. Yeah. But that's not the zest I'm looking for. I'm looking for the zest. Yes, the zest. In life, yes. And I think you find it, and clearly other people find it in you. It's a quest for zest. It's a quest for zest. Yeah. But I think it's pretty remarkable that somebody just listening to your voice and knowing your manner thinks you are beautiful because exuberance is beauty.

5:27Which is lovely. You've got the energy and the zest that makes people think you are beautiful. Incidentally, she is beautiful, but that's by the by. So I've been to these parties, and maybe I shouldn't go to parties, because so many people, you therefore speak too loudly, you can hear my voice has gone a bit groggy. Oh, is that why? Yeah. And then the next night, I went to another party for another friend of mine, a Cathy Lett, Australian, a novelist. She writes rather risque, fun novels. Yeah, very funny. And she was there with lots of her glamorous friends, many of them graduates of the rosebud school of podcasting school of hard knocks sandy toxic was there yeah sally phillips who's promised to be a guest in the future was there we like that ronnie dancona who i know was there gemma redgrave one of my favorite people granddaughter of some michael redgrave who's featured in my daddies which we're going to get on to in a moment and the daughter of corin redgrave she was there and what is intriguing we're going to begin my diaries in a moment.

6:28This diary entry that quite by chance we've reached today refers to two people, two married people, David and Anne Mayer. And I'd not thought about them for a long time. Their daughter was there who when I last saw was a very little girl and she's now a grown up and distinguished writer herself. Amazing. Isn't that extraordinary? Yeah, great. Do you like parties? Do you like parties? I love parties. Oh. Yeah. but it depends what type i mean the type you're describing which is sort of standing around chatting with a with drinks with possibly canapes i think that's less appealing to me and probably to quite a lot of people i think that's the sort of party beforehand you can sometimes feel a little bit of nerves or maybe even dread depending on how many people you're going to know there and how hard going the conversation is going to be but no a party where people are letting their hair down and there's music and merriment i'm there all that's you i'm there for hours you describe the last person out absolutely describe one the other day where people were dancing on the oh on the worktop on the worktop yeah and it wasn't just the children no in fact the kitchen island in that party moved across the the kitchen floor i think it was meant to be attached i mean it had a sink in it or whatever but it moved yeah i think i think it's fine now But yeah, that was, yeah.

7:53I mean, I love a party like that. Well, these weren't parties like that. No, you don't go to parties like that, Giles. No, I don't. I have in my time been to parties like that, but I don't go regularly to them. I was going to describe something which will probably now cut because you'll think, because people have complained about us being too near the knuckles sometimes. But I'll mention this. I do remember going to a party and people years ago shared a flat and there were photographs on the kitchen, on the fridge that they'd put on the fridge with Blu-Tack, which was just a new thing in those days.

8:28Oh, wow, Blu-Tack. When was this? 1893? Blu-Tack was a relatively revolutionary thing when it came in. I mean, it's very good stuff. It is good stuff. Anyway, they detached. It was a long time ago because the pictures were Polaroids. Oh, no, that's OK. I love a Polaroid. But these were Polaroids first time around. These were not revival Polaroids. These were original Polaroids, original Blu-Tack. But what you're saying is colour photography had been invented at this point. The photographs were people who were hosting the party, who were a sort of group of friends who had a flat, of them all larking about in the showers at their home, at their flat.

9:09So it's a lot of romping, young, naked people. And I looked at these pictures. How cool. Yes, that's what I thought. Yeah. Was this the 60s? No, it was later than that. 70s. 70s, maybe even 80s. But the point is, I missed out on all that. That hadn't happened to me. And I remember thinking at this party, oh, I was slightly disappointed in myself that I knew that I lacked the nerve, the courage to be part of that group. Whereas you have rightly said to me that our parties one goes to, the kind of parties I've just been describing, that I was going to this week, where there are a number of people, many of them are well-known people, where some people might feel apprehensive going, am I going to have anything to say?

9:54You're standing around with your white wine, your red wine, your elderflower, thinking, oh dear, I don't think much of the canapes here. Oh, looking over your shoulder. Those sorts of parties. So there are lots of different types of parties. And you really look forward to a party like that, don't you? Yes. And I tell you what, I think I'm quite good. I am quite good at, well, I like to have a role at a party. I was at a very grand party recently, I mean, really grand party, where there were some American guests, and I'd been asked to look after these American guests. And I was delighted to have that role, because I was able to take these guests and sweep them around, and I introduced them to everybody, because it gave me a purpose.

10:37So I was able to go up and say, oh, Archbishop, have you met so-and-so? General, have you met so-and-so? Your Royal Highness, have you met so-and-so? So that gives you a sort of role to play. Someone told me about a party, just thinking about parties in flats, someone told me about a party they had in their flat when they were a student, which everyone was dancing and obviously somehow everyone was bouncing in the same frequency to the music and the floor collapse. They were on the first floor and they ended up all down on the ground floor. Apparently they were all fine. And they were all, I mean, I don't know, they can't have all still been dancing, but the whole, the ceiling went down.

11:20The party went on on the ground floor. Now we're on the ground floor. Oh, well. Yeah, that's cool, isn't it? That is very cool. Yeah. But you see, you're a much bolder person than I am. I'm not. Party-wise. Giles, I'm just a different generation, that's all. No, no. Parties have changed. No. Oh, I mean, this sort of party you're describing certainly happened in my day. I do remember going to... Well, no, but it's just not going on now. You know, you aren't getting invited to parties like that now, whereas I am still. That's all. Oh, they're going on still. I haven't been asked. Well, no, just your generation have moved into the cocktail party era.

11:54Have we? Yeah. I think... They're not dancing on the kitchen island, your friends, now, are they? I'm capable of it. I am capable. You're capable, but no one's throwing those sorts of parties for you. I haven't shown you yet the clip of me doing a one-minute plank on this morning with our friend Ben Shepard, who listens to this. That sounds like rock and roll. What sort of party? Oh, I've got to be the victim. One-minute plank. Come on, everyone. Clear the floor. Charles is going to do his moves. Do you think Ben Shepard goes to the kind of parties you're describing? I know what Ben Shepard does because I saw on Instagram the other day, he was doing this thing called high rocks it's like it's like a nightmare it's like a huge convention with hundreds of people doing the most awful looking circuits you know like pulling ropes pushing weights it looked so grueling his he was with a partner you do it with a partner their time was one hour 21 i mean it's an hour and a half of extreme exertion i mean you could see ben Ben Shepard's muscles rippling away.

13:05They were throwing this weighted ball at a wall over and over again. I mean, it looked absolute agony, but he was loving it. So I think that's what Ben Shepard's up to. I don't think he's, I don't think he probably doesn't even drink now, does he? No, he's getting me into shape. He's so healthy. He is so healthy because he's promised me that I'm going to be on this special veteran's issue on the front cover of Men's Health. Oh, it's a veteran. I thought it was just the normal one. It is a normal issue. It is a normal issue. The veterans. I put that in by means of apologising for myself. No mention has been made of veterans.

13:39I threw that in. I threw that in. So are you actually going to be on Men's Health? Well, in the fullness of time, I'm not yet in condition, but I'm working on it. Have you seen what Ben Shepard looks like on the cover of Men's Health? I think he's gone too far. No, it's so impressive, Giles. It's a really high bar. It's a very high bar. Yeah. It's a very, very high bar. Yeah. If you're listening, Ben, and actually does listen, and he particularly loves the, he goes on these long runs and walks and things. He loves listening as he runs and walks. So it's an actual, well, we're very lucky in the calibre of people who listen to us.

14:12Yeah, hi Ben. Hi Ben. Thanks for listening. And we think you look brilliant on the cover of Men's Health and I can't wait to see Giles when he's... Side by side. Side by side by Ben Shepard. Can't wait to see that. It's the waxing I'm getting nervous about. Oh, the waxing, yeah. Now, have you ever got any emails to share? I have got an email here from Emma Walton. And it says, Hi, Giles and Harriet. I'm a big fan of your podcast and wanted to share some interesting life experience. I was sadly made redundant in June 2023 and have been looking for my niche ever since. I've applied for a part time role for a wellness product company and was delighted to receive a list of questions in return.

14:57the last of which I loved. If you had to choose a song that would play every time you walked into a room, what would it be? I chose I've Got a Brand New Combine Harvester by The Wurzels and said, if you invite me for interview, I'll tell you why. That's clever, I thought. Oh, that's so clever. Yeah, because it's a tease. And the answer is, and I hope they're not listening, one, it makes me laugh, and two, I was four when it came out and I distinctly remember going to see my granny and me and my sister singing it and being amazed when my granny played it on the piano instantly by ear. So that's cool.

15:40From Emma, Kiss Kiss. Well done, Emma. Thank you so much for that. What would you have played? I don't know. I mean, I was just obviously just thinking about it as I read that out because what a great question. What song should play every time you walk into a room. It would have to be something really upbeat for me. It would. I like, the song that's come to mind is by Jackie Wilson and it's Your love's lifting me higher. It's that song. Do you know that song? No, give me that. And I've ever been lifted before. Anyway. It sounds wonderful. It's a great song. Yeah. It's got a great beat to it. with a lot of energy.

16:25I like songs like that. We want them. We want energy. We want zest. We want you singing. We're going to get a bit of you singing if you come to see our show in Edinburgh, which is now for sale and people are buying tickets. Whoa. So we've got to go through with it. Can't back out now. You can't back out now. You're on the posters. And it's going to be, we're at the Edinburgh Fringe throughout August. And you just go to, well, our website and via our website, you go to the Edinburgh Fringe website and you can get tickets now. And what song would be playing when you walk into a room, Giles? Well, probably.

16:58God save our gracious king. Well, that's not a bad one. People would then stand up because in the old days, people used to stand up for the national anthem. Oh, yeah. The introduction to the teddy bear's picnic is rather good music. Oh, that's lovely. Do you remember that? Do you remember how it begins? Do you remember how it begins? That's it. You go down to the woods today. You better go in disguise. If you go down to the woods today You're in for a big surprise For every bird that ever there was Oh my God, I'm singing the whole thing So, anyway Such a great song It's such a great song, isn't it?

17:34And interestingly, useful, useless fact here It's the only song, well it's the one song in the world Where the words and the music were written a lifetime apart The music was written about 1910 And the words weren't added until about 1930 How interesting It was a dance originally The Teddy Bear's Picnic Oh well do you know Because I was about to say The brilliant thing about that song Is a great tune And great words But it's got different Really quite different sections And now you say it's a dance That makes sense Do you also know Simon Smith And his amazing dancing bear? I do Because Stefan played it Oh of course And there's a version of it It's a beautiful song Done by Kermit And Fossey Bear Oh I love the Muppets And they do it so brilliant.

18:22Is it Randy Newman or is it Alan Price? It's Randy Newman. It's fantastic. So I think I'd choose between one or the other of those. Again, they're upbeat. We need upbeat, don't we? You don't want to be walking into something really maudlin to you. That would be awful. You want to be... Candle in the wind or something. Oh, please. Shall we do some diaries now? We should, we should. If people want to write to us... Love Candle in the Wind, by the way, Elton, if you're listening. Yes. And we'd love you to come on. We must get old of Elton, actually. We must. Now, OK, we've got to the diaries. And what is curious about the diaries, we're going to begin on Sunday, the 27th of October, 1974, is one of the parties I went to, as I mentioned to you, the daughter of the people who were mentioned in the opening sentence of this diary happened to have been there.

19:11She's a writer called Catherine Mayer. She's the co-founder of the Women's Equality Party. Oh, I know who she is. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So she's friends with Sandy Toxvig. Of course. She may have arrived with Sandy. They may have arrived together. Anyway, she's a friend of mine. I've known her since she was a little girl. And by sheer chance, not having seen her or thought about her for a long, long time, we open the diaries and her parents appear in the first line of the diaries. Oh, isn't life amazing? So many funny coincidences. Okay. Sunday, the 27th of October, 1974. I'm in my mid-twenties, as you will recall, and I'm setting up this theatre festival in Oxford.

19:51But last night, overnight, with David and Anne Mayer in Manchester and with them to the marriage of Figaro at the Liverpool Royal Court. Open squabbling in the car. Oh, that's awkward. We drove from Manchester to Liverpool. Their marriage won't last. It didn't. Oh, dear. Yeah. It's very awkward when people are bickering in front of you, isn't it? It is. Particularly when you're only in your mid-twenties yourself. You don't quite know how to behave. No, but even if you're in your mid-fifties, you don't know how to behave if someone's doing that. It is awkward. Yeah. I like David Mayer III. This is the father of the girl I met again last week.

20:34I like David Mayer III. He's an American academic and the world authority on Victorian pantomime. madder and mitchison who are people who had a huge collection of theatrical memorabilia madder and mitchison always refer to him as david mayor the turd i like them too a couple of queens one tall with bouffant hair and a way of walking with a swagger the other bent wary with a boxer's face and a syphilitic nose they speak simultaneously finishing each other's sentences no one knows which is which but we're grateful to them because theirs is the best theater collection in the world and they know their stuff.

21:11Today, I took a taxi from Altrincham to Accrington and had tea and played whist with Auntie Edith and Grandpa and caught the 612 back to Euston where Geoffrey Archer was waiting to greet me at the ticket barrier. So extraordinary. This is diaries written more than half a century ago. Some of these figures are still current and the children of some of the people I'm still meeting. Anyway, on we go. How are the mighty fallen? the former member of parliament for louth was making his debut at lbc at 10 pm the overnight shift i've been there done that jeffrey wanted me on hand as guest guide and mentor i was happy to oblige he did okay though he was very nervous and compensated by being alternately loud and bombastic and sometimes both at almost every commercial break he called mary to ask her what she thought.

22:06He told her how good he thought he was and then asked her if she agreed. Wednesday the 30th of October 1974. Lunch with Pa at Rule's Restaurant. Good, but a mite strained. We are neither of us easy at being intimate. Supper at the Mumtaz sorted out our Christmas card list.

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23:31Thursday the 21st of November 1974. On Monday, I got a telephone call. Is that Charles Brandreth? Giles Brandreth, yes. Brian Cartmell here, Public Relations Blackpool. Do you play Monopoly, lad? Well, actually, Scrabble is more my game. There's a fee involved. £100. Monopoly, my favourite game. I owe my life to Monopoly. Good. Could you be free to play in a match on Friday? Yes. Good. We'll send you the tickets. No need. I'll get a ticket to the station and you can pay me when I send in my invoice. There's no station involved, lad. The game is in New York. Whoa. And so it came to pass. I have just checked in at the St.

24:20Regis Hotel in the heart of Manhattan. I'm here for the weekend, pretending to be the European Monopoly champion. Tomorrow morning, I shall be playing a demonstration game in the window of Dunhills on Fifth Avenue. Tomorrow evening, I'm competing in the World Monopoly Championships. I'm here because the US organisers of the event are not too happy about the media appeal of the American competitors and have decided to import a European champion to liven things up. It's a strange life I'm leading. God, that is strange, Giles. So I was hired for£100, which was quite a lot of money in those days, to fly to America for the weekend to pretend to be the European Monopoly champion.

25:07Amazing. Let's hear what happened. Saturday, the 23rd of November, 1974. I got through to the final without cheating. They offered me a secret stash of Monopoly money to hide about my person. That's bad. I refused. I played fair. And I came third. Oh, good. I did a lot of playing to the cameras, asking for cups of English tea, saying cheerio pip pip, and inquiring why the game was set in Atlantic City rather than good old London town. I amused the organisers and infuriated my fellow competitors. when he won the victor retreated to his room and said he wouldn't emerge until his mother was flown in from ohio he was overwhelmed by it all he declared in all seriousness this thing's too big for me wait giles giles i want to know what is your strategy for winning monopoly well i then wrote subsequently a book about how to win a monopoly i really have no idea at all what's the plan but the plan is to buy the expensive properties oh it's just the That really is the plan.

26:14So you don't go stations or utilities? No. You really don't. You go Mayfair Park Lane and you build hotels. Yeah. And also the yellow ones as well. We're actually in the Monopoly. We are. One of the biggest ranking Monopoly properties. Because we're one of the biggest ranking podcasts. That's the way it goes. We're in a hotel on Park Lane. You've got to aim for the top. What I loved, I turned up in New York, checked into this hotel, and there was a knock on the door. And I said, come. And a young woman came in with a sort of swag bag. And she was the PR person for whoever was the maker of Monopoly in America.

26:50I think it was Mattel or was it Hasbro? One of the big American companies. And she opened this bag and I said, what have you got here for me? Is it my fee in cash? How exciting. That's when she offered me Monopoly money in case I could sort of slip it among my earnings to help me win the competition. She probably did that with the other people too. No, I was the one they wanted to win because they thought I was media savvy. Well, you were. She then produced various trophies, saying European Monopoly champion 1972, a British Monopoly champion 1968. No idea the Monopoly world was so corrupt. Well, I didn't accept any of this.

27:26It isn't corrupt. I was given a bye into the world finals. I agree. But I, fair means, I became third. No, but they would have let you cheat. That's what I'm saying. They were anxious about who was going to win. And the joy was, I don't know if this features in the diary or not, the bit we've chosen. The joy was that by coming third, the person who won said this thing's too big for me, disappeared to his hotel room. The person who came second was so infuriated by me and the nonsense of me playing this British guy that he stormed off. So I had to do the media tour. So I travelled around America for two or three days promoting Monopoly for my fee as the European Monopoly champion who came third in the World Monopoly Championships.

28:10It was memorable. So interesting. Wednesday, the 4th of December, 1974. 7am, LBC, programme promoting my Night Book of Christmas Fun. It's a children's book. 2pm, Macbeth at Stratford-upon-Avon with Nicol Williamson in the title role. It was a school's matinee. We were surrounded by ghastly schoolchildren, fidgeting, chattering, making nuisances of themselves. Fifteen minutes into the performance, Nicol Williamson had had enough. Halfway through a speech, he grabbed the wooden stool on which he had been resting his foot and with terrifying violence flung it the length of the stage. He turned on the audience.

28:51Shut up! Shut up, the lot of you! I have come to Stratford earning nothing a week to play Shakespeare when I could be in Hollywood making films and earning a fortune. There are people here today who have paid for their seats and you kids had better shut up and let them hear the play. and if you won't shut up, get up and go now. Now! Nobody moved. You could have heard a pin drop. He began the speech again and the play proceeded without further interruption. Wednesday the 25th of December 1974. New York, Boston, Salem, Washington DC, Atlanta, New Orleans. Christmas Eve on the Mark Twain cruising along the Mississippi River.

29:40Christmas Day at the Hotel Ponchertrain. Harriet, I have no recollection of any of this at all. It's extraordinary for you to study. We have just had roast tom turkey and all the trimmings, followed by the Ponchertrain speciality, Mile High Ice Cream Pie. If you finish your portion, you get another one free. In the history of the hotel, no one has ever managed to finish a portion. we watched star on tv a movie julie andrews as gertrude lawrence oh dear daniel massey as no card dear boy you have me saying too many dear boys dear boy no card it wasn't very good wednesday the 1st of january 1975 i begin 1975 in williamsburg virginia usa this is colonial America preserved in aspic.

30:35Disneyland for grown-ups with an historical bent. We saw in the new year over champagne cocktails at the Williamsburg Inn. This morning we're going to tour the old governor's palace and gardens. For my appointments diary this year I will be using the Williamsburg Almanac. It's a handsome volume, beautifully designed and has useful quotations on every page. It opens with this Let the world slide Let the world go A fig for care and a fig for woe If I can't pay Why, I can owe And death makes equal The high and low Monday the 6th of January 1975 I'm writing this on the Pan Am flight to London We began the day in our room At the Waldorf Astoria Breakfast brought to us on a wobbly trolley scrambled eggs crispy bacon toasted english muffins you can't get them in england but i love them here and on tv at 7 a.m the first broadcast of am america i like to be in at the start of things we've seen some good things while we've been here the cbs tribute to jack benny obviously he just died the sunshine boys on broadway the film of the front page jim dale in Scipino.

31:56It's all been good. I'm reading The House of the Seven Gables by Nathaniel Hawthorne, bought by me on the 12th of December at The House of the Seven Gables, Salem, Massachusetts. We've been away a while. It will be good to get home. There's much to be done. Books to write, games to invent, speeches to make. I start again within 36 hours. The Huddersfield Wednesday Club, to be closely followed by the Utoxeter Ladies' Lifeboat Guild. On today's page, my Williamsburg almanac, I read this from J.K. Galbraith. Wealth is not without its advantages, and the case to the contrary, although it has often been made, has never proved widely persuasive.

32:40We need money. Two months from now, we will be parents. There are booties to be bought. Oh. So is this all the Scrabble tour, this trip? No. What had happened was this. I'd forgotten this. I'd completely forgotten this. New Year at Williamsburg. Christmas. Well, where was it? New Orleans. This is amazing. When I'd gone on the Monopoly, when I'd won the Monopoly championships, I made friends and they said, come back. And I think they invited me to wherever Monopoly was made to visit the factory. And I went up there and I thought, I'm going to invent games. and get to conquer America. So we went back almost immediately for Christmas and to do all these interesting places that we went to.

33:23Wow. So it was exciting. Wednesday, the 5th of February, 1975. It's all over for Ted Heath. The poor man, my sometime hero, has been trounced in the first round of the ballot for the leadership of the Conservative Party. 119 for Mr Heath, 130 for Mrs Thatcher. It's not over yet. William Whitelaw, Jeffrey Howe and others now join the fray but for what it's worth when the dust has settled I think we'll find that Mrs Thatcher's our man and who knows we may meet her on one of our bridge evenings in Flood Street Margaret Thatcher and her husband Dennis and their twin children Mark and Carol they lived in Flood Street, Chelsea and they were neighbours of my friend Francis Crowdy who I think has appeared earlier in the diaries.

34:16He was a BBC World Service producer who used me and who taught Michelle and me bridge. And he was a sort of neighbour of theirs. Women are on the march, but not everywhere. I'm writing this in the train coming back from Accrington. Pa and I have just been attending Grandpa's funeral. And in the north of England in 1975, women still do not go to funerals. it's men's work that's ridiculous ma didn't come even though grandpa was her father aunt edith who lived with grandpa and has looked after him since 1947 when he came back from india didn't come while we men trooped to the church she stayed in harcourt road preparing the tea and sandwiches for the modest wake that took place after the funeral it was all very low-key a handful of mourners but in the church sitting right at the back there were two women in raincoats and hats they didn't know grandpa they are simply funeral regulars the vicar said to pa it's only women who do this interesting only men go train spotting and only women go collecting funerals.

35:35That is absolutely fascinating. So women didn't go to funeral apart from these two women who just popped along. Well it was traditional North Country this was old Lancashire. Yeah. So my father and I went to represent my mother. Yes because I remember vividly my grandfather dying because I loved him and he wasn't didn't loom that large in my life but I knew my mother had sort of mixed feelings about him because her parents had separated. It was difficult for her and she wasn't going to go because women don't go to funerals. So I went, I remember going to the flat where my parents lived with a bottle of wine, which I'd opened to give a glass of wine.

36:17And I remember going into the sitting room and I felt I must hug my mother to sort of, because we didn't talk, we didn't have intimate conversations essentially in my family. So I wouldn't really know what to say, but I wanted to say sorry about grandpa. And it all went hopelessly wrong because I went over, she was sitting in the chair and I bent over to give her a hug. Because the bottle of wine was opened, I simply spilt an entire bottle of red wine all over my mother's top and lap and everything. Oh dear. And then we became distracted by cleaning up the wine. So I never said to my mother, I'm so sorry about Grandpa.

36:54Oh, that's a shame. And it's too late now. But anyway. She will have known you were sorry, obviously. but I just can't believe that she didn't go to the funeral because it's so helpful to go to a funeral isn't it and I think you should have just bucked the tradition who cares because women obviously were allowed in funerals because there are these two women at the back so yes why not just go I'm gonna go sorry yes but there was ambivalence as well her mother had died many years before the end of the 1950s and her mother and father they they never parted company I mean they stayed married but they didn't live together once he came back from India in 1947 they lived apart and my mother really took her mother's side I see so that's maybe more why she didn't go yes but also my grandmother always felt married she went to her grave wearing her wedding ring and I think my mother kept her father's wedding ring after this so I don't know she should probably been persuaded to go up.

37:58I don't know. But there was so much more going on with my mother that I never realised, to be honest with you. We've talked about this before. You know, I think she may have been depressed or unhappy. There were all sorts of things. But I won't know because we never really talked about it then. Though, funnily enough, later in life, she did talk happily about both her parents to my son who went when she was old in her 90s and did some recordings with her. Oh, I must find if he's got those recordings. It'd be fascinating to play. We might play, we might see if she's got anything to say. How would you find that experience, hearing her speak?

38:37Quite disconcerting. Yes. I've got, and we might play it one day, in the basement where you know I keep all my archives. I came across a box the other day that's got a, in the 1950s, you could go into a shop or even into a machine and record your voice, make a record of yourself speaking and have it as a little EP. And I remember going with my father into Selfridges where they had one of these machines and you paid over some money and you went into a recording booth and you could make a conversation and record something. And my father recorded a poem and I've never played it. But I was there with him.

39:22Gosh, that would be moving. That would be, wouldn't it? hearing him because he loved doing it this would be in the 1950s because you know what you can do now is is um if you've got a bit of a sample of someone's voice you know someone that's passed away ai can simulate whole conversation so that people can have conversation with people who are dead because people are brought to life photographs of my parents and that isn't them no the way they move isn't them are there any recordings of your mother no so you've not heard your mother's voice since she died. No. Not since you were 13. No, definitely not.

39:58Oh. Well. So we might play the record of my father one day. Maybe on his birthday. It's his birthday in July. Let's do it in a celebratory way. She sounded like a depressed version of me, probably. Hello, darling. You can do it. We'll get you to do it. Yeah. You can react to the real voice of my father by giving the impression of your mother. With these sad things, we have to laugh as well, don't we? We do.

40:53We'll be right back. Best deal. Save big today at Mattress Warehouse. We're more than a mattress store. We're Mattress Warehouse. Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice. It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace, choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format, then watch the data tell you it worked.

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41:42Okay, on we go. Tuesday the 11th of February 1975 I marked Shrove Tuesday by tossing the world's tiniest pancake live on the Today programme Giles you're ridiculous This is 50 years ago You'll still be ridiculous The world's tiniest pancake Well they needed a fun item You know they always need a fun item And I went in with a little stove A little toy stove a little mini frying pan. Why is it always you that gets to do this stupid thing? And a little bit of mix, a little bit of pancake mix. Batter. And we tossed it. It's called batter, everyone. Batter, everyone. Anyway, Conservative members of Parliament marked it by electing Margaret Thatcher as the first female leader of a British political party.

42:32Can you imagine that? She walked it. 146 for Margaret Thatcher, 79 for William Whitelaw, who shed tears as he promised to unite behind her. 20 for the rest. History is made. Extraordinary moment. I'm spending the morning sorting the VAT and accounts. Next stop, lunch with Richard Carswell. European movement, 1A Whitehall Place. Oh, we've forgotten all this. I'd forgotten all of this. As well as being the European Monopoly champion and a proper tosser on the Today programme, it turns out I am going to get us into the common market. Oh, jolly good, Charles. You're going to discover this is the next excitement.

43:18This is the history of our time through my diaries. We're nearly at the end of this week's episode, don't worry. Friday the 7th of March, 1975. Michelle has gone into the Middlesex Hospital to have the baby and I am here at home alone and anxious. I pray it will all be all right. I love her very much. I have remembered to fleep out of the cats. Tomorrow is my 27th birthday. I shall read Vanity Fair, now my favourite book. Arguably the best novel ever written by an Englishman. And go to bed. Friday the 14th of March, 1975. Bennett was born last night at 8.50pm. It has been a nightmare, but it's over now and I think he's fine.

44:06he's in an incubator he has jaundice but all seems okay yesterday was the worst day of my life when i got to the hospital michelle was already in labor the consultant was there he took me out and walked me down the corridor and sat next to me on an empty bed very quietly he has glasses and looks like an accountant. He said it was serious, but it should be all right. But you never knew. He would probably need to give Michelle an anaesthetic. He couldn't predict the outcome or how long it would take. I was numb, terrified, my poor darling girl lying there and there was nothing I could do. He told me to go away.

44:54He said, don't go far, but go away. for several hours i walked around the streets of marilyn just walked and walked my stomach churning each time i went back there was no news no news of any kind and then it was all over and all was well our boy had been born my girl was alive and recovering i found her lying in bed knees akimbo being stitched up by what appeared to be a couple of students she's been so brave i'm so happy and our little mite, yellowish and still attached to tubes, is going to be fine too. Michelle was exhausted. I left her and walked back to Baker Street. I called in on the parents and broke the news.

45:39I phoned Michelle's parents. I lay on Ma and Pa's bed and Pa made a sandwich while I gave them a blow-by-blow count of it all. I got home around midnight. It's Michelle's birthday. I've sent her two telegrams. One wishing Bennett a happy birthday for yesterday. One wishing her a happy birthday for today. I'm going to see them now. I am a father. How does it feel? Good. Very, very good. Welcome to the world, Master B. Oh, Giles. What a momentous occasion. And isn't it funny, I had no idea when we began because I don't read the diaries before we come to do them so that I'm fresh to read them out loud to you.

46:29I'd forgotten all of this. I mean, I'd forgotten the American trip. I'd forgotten that we were coming up to Bennett, our boy's birthday. Gosh, we've revealed that he must be 50 years old because this is more than 50 years ago. Yeah, wow. Wow. So a couple of questions I had. One is Michelle was in hospital for a week. Is that normal? Oh, in those days, in those days, you would be in hospital for a week. I don't think my mum was. Oh, I think you were in hospital for a little while. Really? I mean, even with the later babies, all of the children were in the 70s, yeah. I mean, in the old days, I think you were in for three weeks or something.

47:07It was a bit more... Oh, I knew that, yeah, but... It's a bit more brisk. I don't think you were in and out in the day. Oh, gosh. What were you doing for a week? Just getting ready, just lying there? I don't know what you were doing. I don't know. Because you feel fine. But also, I think also, no, no, no. I think you only go in when you think you're about to have the baby. All of that. Yeah, but she went in seven days before you was born. Did she go in before? Well, obviously there were problems. There were problems. The complete dowry isn't here, and I may have spared you some of the medical details.

47:36But I do now, I completely forgotten that. I do remember the great man, the consultant, who you knew he was the consultant because he wasn't wearing a white coat. Yeah. He was wearing a kind of... And they call him Mr. Yes, a business suit. and that was actually the most alarming moment of my life because he wouldn't give any comfort at all. He wouldn't say, it's going to be all right. Well, childbirth is risky. It is risky. But you weren't in the room for the birth. Oh, no. We'll get to the next births. We'll get to the next births in due course. I was going to say to you, Harriet, were you in the room for the birth of your daughters?

48:14But I imagine you were. What was the birth? because we're here with the firstborn what was the because when it's the firstborn you don't know what it's going to be like no do you and you do do all the exercises beforehand i did i did everything you did everything yeah and did leon do everything as well was he good beforehand yeah yeah we were we we did this thing called hypnobirthing where he was supposed to sort of say these scripts that would help me to relax and and that's what we did during the birth so i did the birth with no pain relief at all in 12 hours and i was induced at the end the midwife said i was the first ever person she had seen to to do this feat of completely mental courage and strength this is when the zest was born the zest was in evidence that day it was fantastic yeah it was a 12-hour birth it was pretty congratulations it all went it all went quite well it went according to plan yeah it's quite a thing isn't it childbirth i'm not going to say anything here because what you don't want to hear if you're maybe about to have children or thinking of it in the future is to hear some old woman going on about what it was like you're quite right and also different people want to do it in different ways michelle wanted every epidural going every bit of help that was available she wanted in the event she had no choice anesthetic get on with it you should be so lucky when it becomes serious the machine takes over and the one thing about the great man on this occasion is he did give you confidence i did go away and walk the streets thinking she's in safe hands she's in safe hands yeah that's what you want this i felt that this guy and his colleagues knew what they were doing so we end this episode with a newborn baby in the world congratulations it's fantastic and congratulations bennett so he was in an incubator for how long oh quite a while i seem to remember that was one of the reasons of course she had to stay in hospital with the baby and it was several days before we actually were able to touch it and we were looking through you know intensive care through a glass and then he was inside the incubator inside and he was quite a yellow color yeah my daughter had jaundice but she wasn't in an incubator she was in my arms just in one of these special uv blanket things i think they try to give you contact with the baby now it's much better like that well i'm sure it's all much better this is the way it was he survived though he's got two children of his own oh that's good it all goes on is wonderful so well done i do congratulate actually we should congratulate michelle well i was just going to say that congratulations michelle so congratulations benny congratulations michelle well done me keeping this diary because we've also just found margaret thatcher the first female leader of a political party in this country only half a century ago i know amazing and we're just about to find giles brandreth helping us join the european union so not everything i've done has been a success i mean this has been a crazy episode you've gone to america to do a monopoly tournament you've tossed the smallest pancake in the world margaret thatcher's burst onto the scene and Michelle's given birth.

51:26Yay! That's why people on a Tuesday choose to listen to more Rosebud. Every other Tuesday, we have diaries and then every alternate Tuesday, we usually have a guest and us chatting about it. Though we may have a surprise in store for you next week, do tune in to next week's diaries. We don't know quite where it'll be coming from. Yes, it may be a diary that we're making as we are making it. Ooh! Something exciting for you. Anyway, thank you very much for your company. Thank you for being with us. Do feel free if you want to come to see us in Edinburgh or anywhere else, just go to our website, which is rosebudpodcast.co.uk.

52:06And you can just discover more there. If you want to join the Rosebud family to join us on Sundays, as well as Tuesdays and Fridays, you go to patreon.com forward slash rosebud. And if they want to write to us, where do they write to? Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. My name is Giles Bradworth. Your name is? Harriet Jane. This is a Plain Jane production and, forgive me, it's a Plain Jane media production and we love doing it. We love making it and most of all, we love knowing that you are listening. Thank you very much for your company. We do, thank you. Cue the music. Cue the music.

52:55Thank you.

53:35We'll be right back.

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54:51Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions, you're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.