More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries episode 41

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2:24Hello and welcome to another episode of More Rosebud. If you're listening to this in real time, it's a Tuesday because these episodes always drop at about 3am on a Tuesday morning. Tuesday is a really good day of the week for me and it always has been. In fact, we're going to begin my diaries again in a moment. I know we've been a bit sort of all over the place in recent weeks, but basically the rule is on More Rosebud, every other week an episode of Giles' Diaries from yesteryear, and we're back in the 1970s, 1975. We're going to begin on Tuesday the 18th of March, 1975. But this Tuesday, I want to say hello to my friend, mentor, the producer of Rosebud.

3:08It is Harriet Jane. Hello. Harriet, do you have a favourite day of the week? I think it's probably Friday. Yeah, which is a bit of a cliche, isn't it? I think a lot of people like Fridays. Thank God it's Friday. Yeah. I think I've told you before, my favourite children's book was Grimble by Clement Freud. I do know that, I remember that. Of whom we have spoken on this podcast. And in that book, there's a whole couple of paragraphs about how Wednesday's the best day of the week. Ah. Because no one likes Mondays. Friday, it's too late to start anything. You can't start anything on a Friday. But Wednesday's perfect because you've got over the beginning of the week and you can start something on a Wednesday and get it done.

3:59That's very good. I love Monday. Oh. Because I love the start of the week. I love, yay, we're back at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But also, of course, I do love the weekend because everybody else is slacking and I'm still at my desk. It's ridiculous. Oh, gosh. Well, I like to be at work when everybody else isn't. So I love working on Christmas Day and bank holidays and all of that. So I love a Monday because I'm lucky, you see. I've always been self-employed. So if you're self-employed, you have to work all the time. But one of the downsides of being self-employed is that you're working seven days a week.

4:37So Sunday used to be a special day to me, and it's not as special as once it was. You do need to take some time off sometimes, though, don't you? For your mental health and your well-being. Yeah, well, I don't know about that. I seriously don't know about that. Do you remember... By the way, listeners, do not take any of Giles' advice to heart, because he thinks you could work the whole time, but actually you do need to take breaks. You need variety. Variety, yeah. Do you remember a director, stage and film director, called Peter Hall, eventually Sir Peter Hall, the founding director of the Royal Shakespeare Company back at the beginning of the 1960s?

5:18One of the husbands of Leslie Caron. Who indeed has been a Rosebud guest. Well, I knew Sir Peter reasonably well, and he was always accused of being a workaholic. And his line was that, actually, you want to be stimulated. Do you want to be doing different things? Yes, if you're doing the same thing. Of course, if you are driving a train or you're a surgeon or you're working in an office, of course you will need variety, you'll need a break from that. But actually, if you are directing an opera from Monday to Friday, then on Saturday, if you're painting a picture or writing a paragraph of your diaries, and then on Sunday, you're doing something else, going on a drive to maybe look for locations, that's quite good of course you need holidays occasionally now and then so I think I think horses for courses I think I need more breaks than you sometimes I just gaze out the window I know I agree and I know I'm very bad at this there probably is a middle ground between us so what was the answer to my question do you have a favourite day of the week is it Wednesday no I said Friday Friday yeah because it's the end of the week but you work on Saturdays you work on Sundays well I mean it's out the window now because I'm working Saturdays, Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, midnight, two in the morning.

6:40This is the Rosebud way. I mean, as you said, three in the morning, I'm up releasing a podcast. You are. So Fridays don't quite have the joie de vivre they used to have, but I still fondly remember that Friday feeling and I do still get it. I love a Sunday because it is an official day of rest. You know, on the seventh day, we are resting. I used to regularly go to church at eight o 'clock on a Sunday morning, which I quite liked. Got out of the habit of that. You go on a Sunday evening at six o 'clock. I do. I tell you partly why, actually. Because for me, Sunday evening is not a good time. A lot of people have a low on a Sunday evening.

7:22I get nerves. I still get butterflies in my tummy. You mean the back-to-school thing? Back-to-school nerves. And so for me, going to church Sunday evening is perfect. It deals with that. It's a moment of calm and contemplation before the week begins. Oh, that butterflies in the stomach on a Sunday evening. I don't know why I get that. I mean, as you say, now that I do tend to work all days of the week, this is all a bit academic. But yes, I definitely used to get that feeling of Sunday. I'd start low level worrying about what I had to do the following week and thinking oh dear I'm worried about that or that's not organised.

8:05Yeah and I've never really shaken that off. That's why I like Sunday night TV. You know that sort of relaxing day. Well that's why for people who belong to the Rosebud family you chose, you decided to actually drop our Sunday episode on the afternoon time. So it's ready for tea. You want, just because of that nostalgic feel that you have for Sunday night television. And feeling sort of cosy. To calm people down on a Sunday. But I think actually what I do do, I do maintain variety. So, you know, the coming weekend, Saturday, I am going out for breakfast with Michelle, my wife. We're going out for a little treat of breakfast.

8:45And then I'm being taken to a television studio somewhere to record a programme called The Wheel. I don't think you've ever seen this programme. I need to watch it. It's fun the host is Michael McIntyre and then they have sort of eight people or six people, eight people maybe in a kind of enormous contraption being spun around. It's a quiz show and people can win huge amounts of money and you have to you have a subject that you're the specialist on and they ask a question to you you're supposed to help them win the money I've lost so much money for so many nice people taking part. I've taken part in every series and I've had subjects I should know something about you know shakespeare english literature uh royals history prime ministers and every time i seem to you know fail do you feel bad well i'm actually fun enough i'm getting anxious now about this coming weekends one so that's my saturday and then sunday which what sorry what topic have you picked i'm not allowed to tell you until you watch because that would kill the excitement.

9:44Okay. But it's a topic very close to my heart and Michelle's heart because she's going to be in the audience and I'll be wearing a jumper to go with it. So I may have given you quite a few clues there. Very good. So that's quite fun and also it's quite fun to see who the other guests are. The other in quotes celebrities. Sometimes I appear on celebrity shows and frankly they're using the word celebrity very loosely because they haven't heard of anybody else involved. Well, you might just, you know, they might just be much younger or they might be influencers or they might be social media people, Giles.

10:20You don't know everyone. It's amazing. Giles doesn't know everyone. I'm having a panic attack here. I'm having a panic attack, everybody. I'm fanning, Giles. Calm down, Giles. It's okay. Yeah, you're right. I've got to actually accept that I don't know everybody. But I like to feel I know everybody, which is why I do these things. Then on Sunday, I shall be going to, oh, the other Sunday, I went to Maureen Lipman's 80th birthday party. She had a Sunday brunch. Oh, that sounds fun. That was fun. It's fantastic. When I got to the age where people are having 80th, 90th, 100th birthdays and they're friends of mine, it's fantastic.

10:54That is fantastic. So she had a brunch party. She had a brunch. She had a brunch party. We were very honoured to be there because it was really just family. And, of course, she's been a guest on Rosebud. And she's on tour, as am I. So I was, on Sundays, I've been doing this tour, the length and breadth of the country. So it's a bit different from my Monday to Friday because my feeling is if it's a bit different, then it's okay because it's a bit of a change. But you on Sunday, you're going sailing. I think I am going sailing this Sunday, yes, with these nice people I met on my sailing course who've got a baby and they're great, yeah.

11:26Oh, speaking of babies, is it time for diaries or should we do an email first? I hope they're not going to put the baby in the boat. I don't think that's safe. You put the baby in the bathwater, didn't you? the baby in the barbed water. I've got an email. You put the baby in a, they have little harnesses for babies, don't they? I don't think you could put a baby in these boats that we're sailing. But we'll see, maybe. But also babies are quite buoyant, aren't they? They're very good swimmers, babies. Are they? Very good. Oh, really? I think apparently you should get them going straight away. You should just throw them in.

11:54Well, there was a famous book, wasn't there? Who's it by? Called The Water Babies. Oh, Charles Kingsley. We said it simultaneously. Is it a lovely book? I don't think I've actually read it. We might read it. Yes. Is that about baby swimming? Probably not. They're the water babies. I think it is. I think it's about, they're like fairies. Oh, that sounds so sweet. And I think they're fairies, but they're water babies. Shall we both try and read the water babies and report back? I love the sound of the water babies. It was a very famous book. Yeah. I think I've got a copy of it somewhere. I think I've got a copy of it somewhere.

12:25Let us read the water babies and report. And if you are reading the water babies at the moment and would like to report to us on what you make of it, the address is simply hello at rosebudpodcast.com. We've had an email and we've... Actually, we've had hundreds of emails. And may I apologise on behalf of my producer, Harriet Jane. She's so keen on taking time off at weekends that she's found no time to respond to the letters that we invite you to send, which is a pretty poor show in my view. It's got really bad, I have to admit. And I really do apologise to anyone, particularly over the last I would say four to six weeks where my response rates really taken a nosedive so I do apologize we're going to try to work through the backlog but I have got an email here so thank you to Carmel Maguire oh great name I love the name Carmel it's great isn't it it's very glamorous I think dear Harriet and Giles I just want to let you know that you're I just have to interrupt here.

13:29Oh. Just to say, listeners, if you're going to do alphabetical billing, it's Giles and Harriet. If you're going to do billing by age, it's Giles and Harriet. If you're going to be doing billing by presenter, producer, it's Giles and Harriet. I have noticed that almost every email is dear Harriet and Giles, sometimes simply dear Harriet. Because they want me to reply and then I don't even reply. No. It's really hard. It's quite interesting, me having to accept this, and I am accepting it. Just want to know, listeners, just, dear Harriet and Giles, it's fine. It's fine. That's what this says, dear Harriet and Giles.

14:08Yeah. I just want to let you know that your podcasts are keeping me sane while I suffer with insomnia and my husband is snoring happily beside me. Hmm. Oh, no. Could be the reason for the insomnia there, Carmel, you know. I'm a lover of biographies, so your podcasts are wonderful to listen to. Anyway, you have inspired my latest art collection, which is all things floral. I want to add colour and positivity, just like you guys do. Thank you so much. You have no idea how much happiness your podcast gives me. I'll attach some images for you. Keep up the wonderful work. Best wishes, Carmel. She sent some pictures of her pretty pictures.

14:55This one says, keep blooming. Oh, these are rather good. In fact, they're lovely. They're beautiful. They're irises, are they? Keep blooming. I love that. It's nice, isn't it? It's difficult, actually, if you do suffer from insomnia. What's your cure at the moment? I have taken to listening to one of our former guests, Sir David Suchet reading the Bible which I mean I don't want to say it's boring because it's not, it's the Bible, it's the greatest story ever told, read by a very very good person and lovely voice but yes it does help me to drift off, so yeah I'm on sort of I've listened to loads of it now You're on you've gone through Genesis, you've gone through Exegas I've probably, I've no idea Leviticus by now.

15:47Because I only hear one line and then I fall asleep. And then you nod straight off. We ought to tell people, in fact, later this year, we are going to be recording, Harriet and I, some stories together that I think you may enjoy and might actually help you with your insomnia. That's teasing you up there. I am currently working on our Edinburgh show in my head, which I quite like doing. I take it from the top, I take the entrances, and I'm sort of working on the script in my head. and I get really good bits and then I fall asleep in the morning. I can't remember what they were. I don't think this is the best thing to do in bed, Giles.

16:22You should be doing this at your desk. So what I'm now doing is I'm having good ideas and I'm going to the bathroom and I'm getting out my phone and I'm then, because I think if I dictate at the bathroom it would be too loud, I'm typing into my mobile overnight my thoughts. Yeah. Some people do swear by having a pad by the bed, don't they? You can write down worries or thoughts in the night. But I can't turn on the light to do that. I thought you had the light on for the cat. Yes, but it's not... We do have the light on for the cat, but it's not bright enough to see and write by. What I need is the nyctograph.

16:57Did you invent that? No. Lewis Carroll invented the nyctograph. I have written about it. I've heard about this. I've told you about it. Go on, go on. Well, it's a machine, because he suffered from terrible insomnia, poor Lewis Carroll. And it was... And in those days, of course, he's Victorian. There was no light switch. You wouldn't flick on the light. You had to get up and light your gas lamp. It was quite a complicated business. It's actually a bit of a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah. Or put on the candle. They'd want to burn the bedclothes. Oh, God. My father smoked so much in bed that I remember, towards the end of his life, helping him actually make the bed one day.

17:32And there were so many holes on his side of the bed where he'd fallen asleep smoking a cigarette. And they'd burnt holes just on his side of the street. Me and my mother slept side by side. She never smoked. He smoked voraciously, furiously. And there were all these holes. So dangerous, isn't it? My mum smoked in bed as well. And above her head was a sort of halo of brown nicotine stain. I mean, awful. People were terribly unhealthy in those days. My father had a streak of nicotine in his hair. Oh, no. Because he would sit at his desk holding a cigarette in one hand with his hand on his forehead.

18:14And he had a sort of like a rather elegant, in fact, streak of... No, lots of people had that. Bizarre, isn't it? Yeah. So I've got all sorts of cures for insomnia. My third or fourth book, we may come to it in my diaries, was called Brandreth's Bedroom Book. And it was full of cures for insomnia. It could have been something else, that Giles, Brandreth's Bedroom Book. I'm glad it's Cures for Insomnia. Yes. Smutty stories from Grandiff's bedroom. There was none of that. There were games to play, though. Okay. It was a fun book for all the family. Oh. Yeah. Nice. I'm reading a biography at night at the moment.

18:54The biography of Jan Morris. Very good. Which I'm finding quite interesting. I'll bring a report to you when I've got to the end of it. Anyway, should we go on to the diaries? This may send some people to sleep. Yes. No harm in that. No, in fact, we love the fact people sleep to us, don't we? And you can always go back and listen again. Yeah. So you're not missing anything. No, so no loud, sudden noises, Giles. No loud, sudden noises. Giles, you can't do that. Well, I've just done it. Oh, you've just woken up Carmel. Actually, Carmel's awake. Carmel's awake. It's her husband. And we need to wake him up because this snoring.

19:30Wake him up. Nudge him now. Yeah. Carmel's husband. This is Giles Brandreth speaking. I think you need to lose some weight. That's the essence of it. Giles! You need to lose some weight. You need not to sleep on your back the way you do. If it's a more serious issue, if you may be having sleep apnea, go and see the GP. But I suspect that either you're smoking still or you had one glass too many of wine last night. You're sleeping on your back and you're a little bit overweight. I'm saying the things that Carmel doesn't dare say to you. And you just need to be told these things. not everyone who snores is overweight don't you snore?

20:12not since I lost the weight not since I stopped the drinking not since I started sleeping on my side and not on my back I'm speaking if I may say so from the lived experience so I know Carmel what it is like because my wife also couldn't sleep when I was snoring and I also know it can be serious because I had a sister my sister Jennifer did suffer from sleep apnea so it can be a more serious issue but if you want to share a bed with someone basic courtesy requires no snoring Gosh, I've never known you'd be so forthright Giles Well anyway, there you go everyone Isn't that fair enough? Don't you think it's fair enough?

20:59Probably She doesn't I'm sitting on the fence There's no harm, it's quite a fun place to sit There's no harm in us not actually agreeing on something. And I was speaking bloke to bloke. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Tuesday, the 18th of March, 1975. On the back page of today's Times newspaper, the following. On the 13th of March, at the Middlesex Hospital, London W1, to Michelle Brown, wife of Giles Brandreth, a son, Bennett Zan. On the front page, Mr Wedgwood-Ben, Secretary of State for Industry, is widening the scope of the government's plans to nationalise the shipbuilding and aircraft industries.

21:44Mr Callaghan, the Foreign and Commonwealth Secretary, says the Cabinet is likely to recommend a yes vote in the referendum on the renegotiated terms of our membership of the European Economic Community. and in Ireland Protestants and Catholics have spent the night killing one another. Inside there's a photograph of the Queen meeting Barbara Streisand at last night's royal film performance of Funny Lady and I even get a mention in the Times diary a small item about Scrabble. Michelle and Bennett are set to come home on Thursday. We're ready and waiting. Cot in place, pram in hallway, nappies folded, Johnson's baby powder, Vaseline, etc.

22:28by the changing mat. The good thing about the announcement in the Times is that it lets people know we are married. Some people, like our friend Siddle Fletcher, have been saying, pulling pained but friendly faces, how different you would feel if you were married, not realising that we already were. Everyone seems to find Bennett's names a challenge. We love them. Bennett was Michelle's choice. At first, I was backing Max. Bennett suits him perfectly. I've registered the birth. We are not planning a christening. The family is coping. Let me just ask you some questions, Charles. Sorry. About names, because it's a fun subject, isn't it?

23:12So, Bennett. B-E-N-E-T. It's the name, I think, of St. Bennett, who founded the monastery where the Venerable Bede wrote his famous History of the Church in England. And Michelle, my wife, was into medieval history and was an admirer of the works of the Venerable Bede, knew about St. Bennett, felt it was an old English name. Bennett, of course, is a contraction of Benedict. Bennett means a blessing. So an old English name that means a blessing when you're first born, is born, and is a blessing. It also has simplicity. You could abbreviate it to Ben if you wanted to. It's a good shout name, you know.

23:58Ben it! Come here. So we were very, very pleased with that. Zan, X-A-N. I'd known someone at university who was called Zan. There was, I think, quite a well-known explorer called Zan Fielding. These may have been abbreviations for Alexander, I don't know. But X-A-N. We thought B-X-B. these are initials to count for. Why are you called Harriet? I don't know. Oh, for goodness sake. No, I don't know. Can't wait to meet your dad to ask about this. I don't think my dad knows. He'll just say he liked the name. Oh, for goodness sake, can't just say I like the name. I've given you cogent reasons for Bennett being called Bennett.

24:38Well, I know. That's the sort of thing you do, though, Giles. What about your middle name? Anne, my dad didn't even, he denied even knowing that was my middle name when I told him. So it's Hajj. H-A-J is your initials. Hajj. I like Harriet. That's good. I don't know. It sort of places you quite a lot. It does. It gives you all the Harriots I know of your vintage. And you're nothing other than English, middle class. Yeah. I think it pigeonhols you. Can I say, there is nothing better in the world than being English and middle class. There may be things that are equally good, but in my view, there's nothing better in the world.

25:23The reason I wrote my autobiography, Odd Boy, out, is I wanted to show that English middle-class people have problems, feelings, aspirations, highs and lows, like, not quite like everybody else, but in the same way that everybody else does. They do too. Don't be embarrassed about being English in middle class. It's one of your chief attractions. Okay. You're really not holding back this episode. We're going to get a few complaint emails that I then won't respond to. No, pass them on to me and I will respond. Oh dear. No, I guess it's nice to be... You've told someone off for snoring and now you're extolling the virtues of English middle class.

26:02I am, because everybody in the world wants to be English and middle class. Possibly. Not necessarily everybody in the world, because I am reading the biography of Jan Morris, who wanted to be Welsh. But anyway.

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27:22Start your free trial today at aura.com slash safety. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash safety. Thursday, 27th March, 1975. I'm now officially director of the European movement's People for Europe campaign. Getting this far has not been easy, simply because the Britain in Europe organisation is being run by a load of anxious old buffers who are terrified that anyone will do anything risky or interesting. My Wombles for Europe idea has been vetoed, of course. Ditto, odd odes for Europe. But the introductory press release, bland as it is, has been approved by Sir Conn and Co. Sir Conne O 'Neill, Harriet, he was the director of the Britain in Europe campaign, and he'd been a diplomat leading Britain's negotiations to join the EEC.

28:16So the idea was that I was supposed to be a young influencer, because then I am in my mid-twenties trying to encourage people to vote yes in the referendum that is going to get us into the European economic community. So my press release has been approved and has gone out from Europe House today. The People for Europe campaign, says Brandreth, won't be involving professional politicians at all. It won't involve heavyweight industrialists or earnest trade union officials either. It will involve all kinds of other people, many of them very famous, lots of them very young. And its object will be to present an exciting, comprehensible and credible picture of the advantages of Britain's continuing membership of the EEC.

29:02Our aim is to produce a layman's guide to Europe and telephone information centres in the UK's 10 larger cities. I'm running it from home, though they are letting me have a corner of a desk at Europe House. So-called, actually cramped, overcrowded, open-plan desks at the back of the National Liberal Club behind Charing Cross Station. I have bought Easter eggs. In his powder blue perambulator, Michelle and I will be taking our son to feed the ducks in Regent's Park before taking part in his first Brandreth family traditional Easter egg hunt. Yes, he's only two weeks old today, but he is very advanced.

29:42Sunday the 11th of May, 1975. Anxious letter from Archie Kirkwood, Youth Coordinator, Britain and Europe. he's fretting about our press conference and our finances these people don't have enough to do the truth is we have done well all the people i have recruited have donated five pounds to the cause and we have quality names peter ustinov richard bryas why are you why is harriet laughing in the background this is 50 years ago five pounds was a decent amount of money and wait wait listen to this, Harriet. I agree I'm in my mid-twenties. I may be ridiculous, but I was in charge of People for Europe, and I will go on reading the diary.

30:27Listeners, do you realize my producer is subverting me? As I'm trying to read my diaries, she is snickering, mocking me in the background. I will try and start that sentence again. All the people I've recruited have donated five pounds to the cause and we have quality names peter ustinov richard bryars paul eddington everyone is loving the good life the european life will be even better david bailey michael york antoinette sibley katie boyle robert powell jb priestly etc etc 380 pounds to date with henry moore and dirk bogart coming in with 10 pounds apiece and frederick forsyth stumping up 20 pounds wow The press conference is scheduled for Thursday, and we're going ahead with it, regardless of we Archie.

31:16I'm now off to the Polygon Hotel Southampton to chair the Wessex Youth for Europe Rally. John Selwyn Gummer is giving me a lift. He looks like a carrot, but he knows his stuff.

31:32This is John Selwyn Gummer, who became John Gummer, who I think is now Lord Gummer of somewhere around. Looks like a carrot. Well, he was small, he had reddish hair. Yes. This is what... The thing about a diary is you just write it on the day and you don't have regard to what political correctness 50 years hence may regard as acceptable or not. These are my diaries, unvarnished and so far unedited by Harriet. But who knows what will happen. Tuesday, 20th May, 1975. Our People for Europe press reception at the London Palladium went well, I think. Slightly motley turnout. Nicholas Parsons, Viscount Weymouth, Lord Montego Bewley, Tom Hustler, Sheila Scott.

32:21Christopher Hitchens, representing the new statesman, stood at the bar in a combat jacket, drinking, smoking, and raising a cynical brow above a very watery and bloodshot eye. I think he's completely ridiculous. He thinks I am completely ridiculous, but we have Oxford in common and we like one another. The photographers took our two actresses Doris Hare and Patricia Hayes into the street outside the theatre and got the game old birds to do high kicks by a one-way road sign with a bemused Andrew Lloyd Webber looking on. He was our star attraction but he lacks star personality. He can barely string a sentence together.

33:02He wore an open-necked floral shirt under a crumpled old sports jacket, grubby trousers, belt with a huge buckle and terrible posture. Cried from Michelle in background, You're not one to talk. That was addressed to me. Oh dear. I'm hoping that Lord Lloyd Webber, now Knight of the Garter, is not tuned into more Rosebud. I think he's more of a Friday Rosebud person. Yes, I hope he's not listening. Because I know he's going to be listening because we're going to have his brother on soon to Rosebud. And we're hoping that we'll have Andrew on one day. We now know each other better and get on better.

33:39But I think he's bought a new jacket since this event. Yes, he could probably have afforded to buy one even then, but he chose not to. Friday the 6th of June, 1975. The referendum result, an overwhelming victory. 26 million went to the polls, 67.2 % voted yes, 32.8 % voted no. We stay in Europe. it's the right result and we played our part now back to normality well perhaps not quite normality i met hugh thomas for lunch he is now wearing a toupee as he greeted me outside leicester square tube station he lifted it as though it were a hat he did the same as he said goodbye and then i met Ronnie Barker, who showed me his collection of saucy seaside postcards.

34:32But I don't think he collects them because he finds them amusing. I think he finds them positively exciting. Very strange. Wow. Wednesday the 2nd of July 1975. Lunch with Simon, that's Simon Cadell my friend, and Sir John Clements at Stone's Chop House. He seemed older, Sir John, wearier. He wouldn't have even one glass of wine. I never touch a drop before a performance. It's my one rule. Simon, who is appearing with him in the case in question at the Haymarket, it's a CP snow drama but not his strongest, told his story about how Sir Ralph Richardson manages to shave 20 minutes off a matinee. Sir John Clements shook his head.

35:19Always give your best performance, always There may be someone out there who is seeing you for the very first time You must give them your best I like him I told him we hope to do another festival next year Funding permitting I did not tell him that the Oxford Palace administrator Elizabeth Sweeting is a difficult old cow And that nothing is certain He suggested Arms and the Man as a possible Bernard Shaw play I don't think we'll be asking him to be the director, nor Julia Foster to star. Cry from Noel, unless we need them.

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37:36Start your free trial today at aura.com slash safety. Protect yourself now at aura.com slash safety. Saturday, the 11th of October, 1975. Giles Brandreth is the sort of person that a breakfast cereal company would give their right arm for. He's bursting with vigor, fizzing with happiness, sizzling with vim. and Cosmopolitan Magazine once picked him as one of England's most eligible bachelors, though he was actually married at the time. Linda Lee Potter's interview has appeared in the mail. We get a full page with a charming picture of Michelle and me, with me holding Bennett and giving him his bottle.

38:19Linda was lovely, gentle, funny, quirky, and that's what the piece is too. It's generous and amusing, but rather ghastly too, embarrassing, all that boasting, talking too much, trying to get everything in, trying to be agreeable and ending up sounding egregious, saying I'm the happiest person in the world. Possibly true, but I know it just annoys other people. On the reverse side of the piece about us, it's Margaret the Magnificent, My Vision for Britain. Mrs Thatcher began her historic speech to the Tory conference with a furious onslaught on the Labour Party. This is her first party conference as leader and she's wowed them.

39:00Interesting that. That was an interview. Have you heard of Linda Lee Potter? I have, yeah. She was huge, a Daily Mail columnist and journalist. So to be interviewed by her at that age was extraordinary. And it's interesting, isn't it? This is more than 50 years ago. I'm being interviewed this week, I think, by the Daily Telegraph because of you and me going to Edinburgh, being on the Edinburgh Fringe this August. And all those anxieties about the interview, they still surface. yes interesting and i need to remember you know well i do want to try to be agreeable but don't try to get everything in decide what messages you want to keep to those don't sound egregious and the other rule to remember is if ever you're being interviewed by a journalist from the moment they ring the doorbell until they're in their car the bus or the taxi going home the interview is still going on i know so don't feel you can throw in any asides as you go the door yeah and always be polite and on your always be polite and on best behavior yeah don't no confidences no off the record remarks no no don't ever do it it's risky isn't it is risky interview yeah i don't think i'd be very good at it we may be doing some together you may be doing some alone i don't think i'm to be trusted giles i agree don't let me do any interviews I may be hiding in a cupboard bursting out I think you will no stop anyway but what is also interesting this is the beginning of Margaret Thatcher this is I mean it's a Labour government but this is Margaret Thatcher who's taken over from Edward Heath she's the new leader of the Conservative Party and well some people know what history holds but in 1975 we didn't Monday the 13th of October 1975 Our dinner party for ten last night went well.

40:50Guests were due at 7.30pm. At 8.30pm, everyone had arrived, except Francis and Mary Crowdy. Francis phoned to apologise. They'd been held up. They were on their way. They arrived around nine. We had a jolly time. They went off with the rest at around midnight. Francis has just phoned, full of apology and regret at their rudeness in arriving so late. Rightfully bad manners. It was just that as we were getting ready to go, standing in the hallway at Flood Street, Mary told me that she's leaving me for the au pair. And still they came to dinner. I believe it's called breeding. Wow. Yes. That's probably, I think we can finish there.

41:35It was an extraordinary night. It was a kind for me of a kind of almost a growing up experience. because one of the things I've learnt doing Rosebud is that for most people, life is quite complicated. Actually, for lucky people, maybe it isn't complicated. But for a lot of people, it's complicated. Relationships are complicated. Marriage is complicated. This was a lovely man, Francis Crowdy, and his wife, Mary, was a lovely woman too. And you may remember, they lived in Flood Street, along the same street that Margaret Thatcher lived in. And Michelle and I, very young, early 20s, would go to them for supper and then play bridge.

42:19And Francis taught us how to play bridge, which was great fun. And he and his wife seemed to get on so well. But it never occurred to us that these people who came for dinner were in the middle of a maelstrom at home. They didn't show it. And yet we found out about it and then thought about it. so it's nice you never know what's going on for people do you you've got to remember that you never really know one of the privileges I think for us with Rosebud Harriet me having these conversations every Friday you listening to them more than once as you edit them is I feel very honoured at the confidences people share and privileged to learn about other people's lives.

43:12And I feel in listening to them, I'm learning something about my own life, which is good. And people are learning something from the diaries about what life was like for one funny, ridiculous person, me, in the mid-1970s. Do you think you would, if you broke up from your wife, do you think you'd go to dinner that night? you just an hour later you'd be able to go to dinner I mean that's amazing interestingly well they came to dinner together I know is the point of this couple I mean that is manners and it was quite a blow he didn't know about it they were impeccably mannered but interestingly Harriet there have been days when I've said to you let's not do this or you can cancel that or you know there's too much on this week and you say no we've made the commitment we're going through with it so I think you are somebody who turns up absolutely I hate cancelling things yeah And you don't cancel things.

44:05So I don't like to cancel things. I also find it quite helpful to have to do things. Yes. We're going to get in the diaries in a year or two's time. Do you remember somebody called Cecil Parkinson? Who resigned from the government because he had an affair with a woman called Sarah Keyes. It's all in the public domain. Yes, I remember that. Anyway, on the night of his resignation, you'll find in the diaries, I'm sure I've written about it, that he and I were at a public dinner sitting side by side and he went away from the dinner and within five minutes of the dinner he was phoning the then Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher to confess, or in fact he went round to Downing Street to tell her all of this.

44:46I had no idea of it. We sat together for an hour at dinner. He got up and gave the most delightful speech and then said to me, oh, do you mind, I won't be able to stay for yours. I've just got a bit of work to do back in the office. Got to go back to Downing Street. but he may have found for all i know i certainly i've told you this um in fact we've covered it when when my father died how i was due to go to work and i went to work it was quite useful to have that to do so different people handle things in in different ways so is that enough diaries for today yes that was what a year you've got a little baby and you're feeding the ducks oh that's what you're thinking about i'm thinking about how i won the referendum oh i completely You forgot about that.

45:31Me and Andrew Lloyd Webber in a crumpled show. Together, we won the referendum. Thank goodness for that. Well, for a while, then all that was reversed. Margaret Thatcher's on the scene. Quite interesting, keeping a diary. You don't do that, do you? Yeah, I have kept a diary. You've heard some of it. Oh, I loved your diary, but you're not doing it at the moment. No, but I sometimes do. I just go up and down. Yeah, keep notes. Keep notes. It's fun to keep notes, actually, to remind yourself what was going on. and also what we have to remember is that as Oscar Wilde said of moods they're very changeable that is their chief charm so you may write a diary of feeling one way and then the next day feel quite differently about the same events so don't worry it's just a diary of how you felt at the time you were writing it it's simply my record of what went on I know I'm pleased this Tuesday that we've been talking together because I love chatting with you Harriet if people want to come and meet us in person we're going to be doing some trouts for our Edinburgh show coming up quite soon at the Riverside Studios in Hammersmith in London and at OZO, the old sorting office in Barnes in south west London they're coming up I think in end of June, July, beginning of August and then all of August you will find us every day doing a matinee of a show called Up Memory Lane.

46:57That will be at Assembly in George Square and we hope you will enjoy it. We hope we will enjoy it too. I shall be keeping a diary of it and you may read interviews with Harriet Jane about what it's like to be preparing a show for Edinburgh with Giles Brandreth or you may not. I'm not sure I will be doing interviews Giles as previously discussed. Can I say, I think you shouldn't do interviews. I think you should become the, what was the famous film star from the 1930s? I Want to Be Alone. She was Swedish. Greta Garbo. Greta Garbo. You. Oh, this is perfect. I am the old gabster and you are Greta Garbo.

47:39I'm the one who doesn't stop talking. The idiot who's put in the front line. Oh, for God's sake, won't that man shut up? And then the mysterious Greta Garbo. Oh, she never speaks. You just see her on stage. Oh, what's she really like? Never say a word to the press. Yes. Perfect. If you want to see Harriet Jane, you've got to buy a ticket. She is not available for interview. Yes. Only available on More Rosebud every Tuesday. And if you're a member of the Rosebud family every other Sunday. If you want to join the family, it's patreon.com forward slash roastbutt. But we're here, free and available, every Tuesday, every Friday.

48:24Giles, that's enough. That's enough. Cue the music. Keep that in.

48:44Thank you.

49:16That's this week's More Rosebud with me, Giles Brandreth, and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. It's produced by Harriet, and I turn up too.

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