More Rosebud - Gyles's Diaries episode 46

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2:10Welcome to another episode of More Rosebud. This is a special episode for us because it's happening on a very special day in our lives. When I say us and our, it's me, Giles Brandreth, and my friend and partner in this enterprise, Harriet Jane. How are you feeling, Harriet? I'm feeling all right today, Giles. That's what she's saying. That's what she always says. But the truth is, we're both a bit apprehensive. If you're listening to this on the very day it drops, you're listening to it on the 4th of August, 2026. Yeah. And that's the day when we find ourselves in the beautiful capital city of Scotland.

2:54We're in Edinburgh because tomorrow, Wednesday the 5th at 4 o 'clock, we have the first performance, the first of four weeks of performances of our show, which we're presenting at the Edinburgh Fringe. It's called Giles Brandreth, Up Memory Lane, with a twist of Rosebud and Harriet Jane. And it's an hour-long show that we've been working on for a while now, and we're opening. And we're very lucky. We've sold thousands of tickets, but we've got thousands still to sell because it's on every day in quite a large theatre in George Square in Edinburgh, Assembly George Square. The theatre is actually called the Gordon Aikman Theatre.

3:33I've met some people who knew Gordon Aikman, who's apparently a very good guy. Anyway, that's the theatre we're in, and we're doing this show every day. And today, when we finish this, we are going off to do the tech rehearsal. What does a tech rehearsal mean? You're the producer, Harriet. What's a tech rehearsal mean?

3:49Harriet: It's where they make sure the lights are working, they've got the music coming in at the right time, your microphone is working, and your levels are correct. You don't necessarily do the whole show, but you just block through it. We may need to do the whole show, Harriet. I think we may need to do the whole show Charles are you losing your voice? Now I'm losing my voice I'm losing my nerve What is interesting if I was losing my voice it wouldn't be a surprise I often talk about one of my heroes the great Noel Coward I know he was born in the I think he was born actually in the 19th century in 1899 he's still alive to me in 2026 he was a great man of the theatre he was a playwright he was an entertainer he was an actor he was a director he was well Well, he was known as the playboy of the West End world because he could do it all.

4:38He was known as the master because he could do it all. If you read his diaries, and we're getting on to my diaries in a short time, but if you read Noel Card's diaries, you will see he keeps getting colds and coughs and wheezing. And if you see, a few weeks later, it's because he's about to appear in a show. He finds his voice goes almost every time he's going to do something. Is that nerves? And it is nerves. Oh gosh, I hope that doesn't happen to us. As you've noticed, my back went a couple of weeks ago before we did one of our tryouts in London. So my back goes, sometimes my voice goes. Inevitably, one gets anxious.

5:18And you, you can be honest with people. I mean, I've told you before and I've told listeners before. I've been doing a show for 10 years now with the great Dame Judi Dench. And she acknowledges that in the wings, in the dressing room before the show, she gets anxious. so don't be embarrassed about it you have been anxious before some of the shows haven't you I think I've been better than I thought I would be I was anxious about being anxious I thought I was going to be so anxious that I would just not be able to speak or something you know nothing would come out actually I've been able to I have been able to do it what I am anxious yeah you You were anxious, as you rightly say, almost before it began.

6:02You had real reservations about doing it at all because of your anxiety about doing it. And then I got some beta blockers. You did. Maybe I shouldn't go on about this, but they do seem to work. Did they help you? You were recommended those by one of our guests, weren't you? Yeah, Catelyn Moran. She actually gave you some. Yeah, so she came on and after the show, she said a few very perceptive things about a number of subjects, but she talked about the menopause, she talked about doing shows she talked about nerves and she's she suddenly produced this packet of pills from her back pocket I hope she doesn't mind me saying this I mean she had them on her you know she probably has them on her every day and she said oh you need one of these and I said what's that and she said oh it's a beta blocker they're brilliant everyone I know that performs or does public speaking uses these.

6:55So no shame, she said. And she said, even if you just have them in your back pocket and never take one, they just give you that slight reassurance. I've known people who play musical instruments, particularly violin, cello. They take beta blockers because of the control of their hands. I don't quite know what it does. It clearly blocks something. We've got a beta blocker, just sort of calms things down a bit. and I don't think it affects your mental state. Well, I was worried it would because someone in my choir had taken one because they were singing a solo and they were nervous. So that was the first person I was asking him, how was it?

7:36I wanted to know, are there any side effects? Because what you don't want, yeah, is to take something like that and suddenly on stage feel either woozy or slightly lobotomised, you know, a bit not quite with it or too relaxed. because you do need to be you know the nerves are helpful and all performers say that you know you need to be really on your uppers and you need to be your best self and you need the adrenaline all that I didn't want that to just completely disappear so I was kind of in this comatose state anyway so I asked my friend in the choir and he said oh yeah you are quite relaxed so I was a bit unsure but then catelyn moran said oh no no no it just takes the edge off and takes away the shakes the jitters the tummy butterflies all that yeah if my experience is anything to go by it just calms you down a bit yeah but you had said that you were anxious and of course i have not actually you're right when you've come onto the stage there's no problem there appears to be no problem at all but you had said it and we got an email didn't we from one of our listeners yeah which was extraordinary.

8:44Tell everybody when this email arrived, who it was from, and the timing of its arrival, because it was quite uncanny. Yeah. So I think it arrived when I was on the bus on the way to a rehearsal with you, about which I was feeling really nervous, and I was feeling quite down in the dumps and negative. And I can't do that, you know, I was saying all these awful things to myself about how I couldn't do it. God, I really have overshared on Rosebud about myself. Doubt. I don't want people to think that I'm just really down on myself the whole time. I'm not. But this show has brought out some underlying issues, let's say.

9:27Now, can I say something? I think you're very pulled together. Do you? I don't feel like that. You're very pulled together, but you have vulnerabilities. Yes. That we all have vulnerabilities. Thank you, Giles. But one of the interesting things about our show is that somebody came to see it called Selina Cadell, who is the sister of my best friend from school, Simon Cadell.

9:48Harriet: Yes. Selina Cadell is also... Geoffrey from Heidi High. Absolutely. And Selina is an actress of some considerable distinction. She's just been in a play at Chichester. She's always working. And she was in Doc Martin for many years with Martin Clunes, playing the lady with the thing around her neck. Anyway, she's a marvellous actress and a director. She, in fact, directed the Hamlet that we saw that Eddie Izzard is in. It's travelling around the country. She came to see our show, One of the Triads, and she said it's the vulnerability of you both that is fascinating. People like vulnerability because it speaks of truth and humanity.

10:27Yeah. So you shouldn't be frightened of your vulnerability. Everybody is vulnerable. But this was a vulnerability of yours. so thank you that's very very useful um and it's definitely yeah but i mean the point is we all have it we do so anyway this email yeah so i was on the bus on the way into a rehearsal and an email comes on my phone to the rosebud hello at rosebudpodcast.com address and it was from someone that we'd heard from before jemma that actually led to us involving her in the show and she's actually now the choreographer for the show that we're opening in tomorrow night in Edinburgh.

11:06But she sent this extraordinary email and I think it might be worth your while sharing some of the email with people because the advice she gave you rang true for me and might ring true for other people who are not just going to open a show on the Edinburgh Fringe this week but might be giving a speech or appearing in a play or doing anything that requires control of nerves. control of anxiety. So what did she say to you?

11:34Harriet: Yes, it's all about nerves. This email is brilliant. Hi, Harriet. I'm just listening to one of the episodes where you're talking about nerves. And I just wanted to say that I totally relate to those last minute nerves, where your brain decides to try and sabotage you just before you go on. Or we should say that Gemma is a performer. She's a dancer and a performer so she does go on stage quite a lot and she also puts together shows and stuff and I wanted to share a few of the things I do just before going on stage which really make a difference to me. My nerves have got worse the older I've got.

12:15Harriet: I'm 39 and still lucky enough to dance professionally and I don't know if it's come from getting older and seeing younger dancers come in and be able to do stuff I can't do anymore or if being older automatically makes you think about the things that can go wrong but I've definitely noticed the older I've got the more I've had to battle the nerves. I think that's true for a lot of people. One thing I've learned to do is to trust my body and mind especially if you get to a point where you know the material really well. My nerves can threaten to leave me blank on the stage and lose all the material.

12:53Harriet: So now I don't go through the material too close to the performance, as this can leave you forgetting things due to the adrenaline and then panic sets in. So I'll go through the material in the morning when I'm calmer, and then I say to myself, I trust my body and mind, they both know exactly what to do. And this is true. Muscle memory will take you there and lines or lyrics will be ingrained. So let the memory do its job. That has really helped me. Very good. Well, given our show is called Up Memory Lane, all this to do with memory is important. Muscle memory. So don't be reading the script just before you go on stage.

13:37It's in there. Trust.

13:40Harriet: This is the next bit of advice she gives us. step away from imposter syndrome this happens to everyone and can leave a dark seed of doubt in our minds we have every right to be on stage no matter our age experience or ability imposter syndrome serves no purpose so the second that dark seed threatens to sprout roots I weed it out straight away. Wow. And I remind myself that no matter someone's experience in performance, there are always bad shows and always good shows. Some people will leave completely blown away and some people will leave questioning why they bothered. I have no control over this.

14:32Harriet: In fact, it's none of my business what people's response will be to my performance. I can only control my experience and how I respond on stage. The rest is other people's responsibility. And I find this quite freeing. I can go on, do my thing, ensure I enjoy it, and the rest has nothing to do with me. Wow. That's good, isn't it, Giles? That is interesting. Yeah. I mean, I'm hugely experienced, as you know, and you are not. we actually tell the audience i mean tomorrow will be the first time that you've begun a been in a play a show for a month ever and professionally on the stage yeah um and she's telling you you've got as much right to be there as i have who've been doing this for 50 years you might think i'd be better given i've been doing it for so long so there's one last tip this i really love this last bit.

15:32Harriet: My last little tip that I use is to imagine time slowing down. Adrenaline can cause us to rush and to not be in the moment, causing our minds to be in the next section of the show and not fully embracing what we're doing that second. We are in charge on stage, not the audience, and imagining time slowing down and becoming malleable in our hands reminds me that the show moves on when I'm ready. This tends to take the edge off slightly for me and allows me to remember that the only person putting pressure on myself is me. That is so good, Giles. Isn't it good? It's your space. I mean that takes a lot of courage though because that's what you said who told you that?

16:33when they get louder you get quieter when they the more nervous you get the more you slow down the stand up comedian he told me exactly you know slow down the rowdier they are slow down the noisier they get quieter you go that you own the space you're in charge one of obviously my childhood here was the great Sir Laurence Olivier, big actor in the 20th century. And he on stage, before the performance, would go round the stage, familiarising himself with it, touching the furniture, making sure it was his space. He owned the stage. He owned it. It was his. Wow. I mean, that's alpha. That's alpha energy, isn't it?

17:15Maybe we should be doing that. Well, that's what we're going to do. Our tech run this morning, we must actually make sure we go round the stage and own every bit of it.

17:23Harriet: Oh. So this is the last This is Gemma just saying goodbye now I wish you all the luck In the show We will be coming to Edinburgh to support you both That's nice Those nerves serve a really great Purpose when channeled properly And will give you that Extra rush of magic You are fantastic Harriet and we can't wait to see you Do your thing That's a lovely thing to say and you are fantastic Harriet Best wishes, Gemma. Very good. Oh, what a great email. Anyway, we've spoken to Gemma. We've met Gemma. We've given Gemma a hug. So we've said thank you. But as a result of that letter and the advice and the timing of it, which was quite strange because you hadn't heard from her for months, said you?

18:09No. That came out of the blue. Yeah. Literally on the way to the, you adopted some of those and you found it once we get on the stage, actually quite manageable. Yeah. So you're not a bag of nerves. I don't think you're really a bag of nerves beforehand. either. No, I'm okay. I think it's okay. So we got in touch with Gemma and said, you're a dancer. There are some musical numbers in the show. Come and help us stage them. We'd already staged them with our musical director Stefan Bernalczyk, but she came and added her bit of woofledust. So we are going to be here in Edinburgh until the end of the month, the last Sunday in the month of August.

18:47Every day at four o 'clock. Come and see us. See what you think. And meet us afterwards and tell us well it didn't seem to do you much good all that fine advice but it was good advice wasn't it oh it's brilliant advice and I think it is useful for someone who's doing a best man's speech or you know we all dread those things don't we for some people it's the most terrifying thing in the world yeah to get up in front of other people yeah for me one of the things that you said there about you can't do anything about the audience I and I discussed this once with John bishop in edinburgh a few years ago we were both appearing in edinburgh we bumped into each other and uh i told him he said how are you doing i said well i'm sold out i said i'm sold out except last night he said i know there was one empty seat i said there was he said there was one empty seat for me too last night you obsess the whole evening about why that person hasn't come why aren't they there you concentrate on and he said the other thing you do which is true you see one person not laughing and it completely unnerves you you think my what am i doing wrong There's just one person.

19:43A theatre with a thousand people roaring, there's one person who isn't. And you then become obsessed with making that person laugh. Oh, my goodness. So are you looking at individual people in the audience when you're on stage? Because I don't think I am. Yes, I think I am. Well, you can only see the front few rows. But sometimes you can catch the eyes of people. Oh, I try not to. And, of course, sometimes, maybe it's the age of my audiences, I find they've nodded off. that's nice isn't it exactly what we want is an audience that eases itself this is a show to come and snooze through so what are you looking at when you look out are you looking sort of generally are you looking are you like staring at people one of the things that I do do I think now automatically bear in mind I have been doing this for 50 years and I've worked with some of the greatest people ever to appear on stage is I do look up and out and I do try to include the last row in everything I do.

20:47And I often, out of habit, even in a theatre that doesn't have a dress circle or a gallery, I play up to the dress circle or the gallery. Remembering the days when I played in theatres where I could only fill the stalls and then close the dress circle and the gallery because there was no one sitting up there. But to give the illusion there might be, you still play up to them. So I do do that. So I do look out always and make sure my eyes go everywhere. But you're doing that instinctively. Yeah, but it's hard, isn't it? Because you can't really see. You can just see lights. And that's why we're going to the tech in a moment.

21:23Because, you know, I didn't realise this. The last tryout we did in London at the old sorting office in Barnes, somebody said to me, you know, Giles, when you were standing behind that table, we couldn't see you at all. You went into blackness. You disappeared from the stage. Did you know that? No. Oh. So there were great chunks when I was standing behind that table, which we have now moved, actually. But when I was standing, well, apparently my voice could be heard, but they couldn't see my face at all. Oh, that's a bit spooky. Yeah. So we're going to make sure today that the lights are in order, that the sound is in order, that our props are where we want them to be.

21:53Yeah. And we might even do, we've got three hours there for the tech. We might even be able to do a quick run of the whole show. Hooray. Be quite nice. And then tomorrow we open. Hooray. Hooray. We open. We're not going to be looking at the reviews. if there are any. We don't care. We will if they're good. If they're good, I'm going to print it out 5 ,000 times some wallpaper in my bedroom with them or turn them into a dress or something. Yeah, if they're good. Yeah, if they're bad, no. Don't think about them. I don't want to see them because funnily enough, you only think about the bad things.

22:26Yeah. You become terribly self-conscious. And if anybody says to you, I like the way you did that line, you'll never do it as well again. Anybody points out to you, oh, the way you moved at that point, you can't do it again. because they become self-conscious about it. Yeah. Oh. Well, should we do the diaries, Giles? I think we've talked about this show so much now. People must be getting bored of listening to us. Well, not everyone can get to it. That's true. But we do want... Come to see it. We hope you like doing it. Yeah. Come to see it. We hope you enjoy it. And if you do, let us know. And if you don't, well, forget it.

22:58Yeah, do not let us know if you don't like it. We're on my diaries, and we're going back about 50 years here. And have we got to February 1978? We have. I think we have. We've got to 1978, the 23rd of February. This is the year, oh my gosh, I'm about to turn 30. Woo! So I'm not much younger than you are now, but it's still a long time ago. What are you talking about, child? You always shave about 15 years of my age. I shave 10 years of your age, which is as it should be. It's like when you mentioned the word menopausal earlier. I was going to chip in perimenopausal. And I do know all about these things, as people will know, because I am this morning's menopause ambassador.

23:54Thursday, the 23rd of February, 1978. I began the day in Wellington, Having done my best to wow them at the Reekin Ladies Circle dinner last night, I may have succeeded. A charming lady, mid-thirties, very pretty, only a touch overweight, told me her husband was away if I felt like a nightcap. Oh! Giles! I reached... I reached Houston at 10.15am and went straight to Capital Radio to do a children's book interview with jolly Maggie Norton. Dennis's daughter on to lunch at Rogantino's in Romilly Street with Peter Lavery from Hamlin Paperbacks and his new sidekick Gail Rebuck we talked about the books we're going to do with famous names attached the cartoon books the crosswords the wine guide with Derek Nimmo etc I'm hopeful

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25:33This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

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27:06Monday the 13th of March, 1978. It's a horrible world out there. Arab terrorists have just killed 40 Israelis who are sitting in a bus on a hillside. we visited the very spot when we were there in Roald Pindy where Ma was born they look as if they're readying themselves to hang their former prime minister Mr Butoh in Northern Ireland according to Michelle's friend Robert who's in the army there the violence is endemic 14 killed in a restaurant the other day out there it's horrible but here where I am in London W8 it's all rather cosy. Bennett's third birthday party went with a swing. Smarty Arty delivered the goods.

27:53Tomorrow I'm taking Michelle in a new outfit to lunch at Ma Cuisine in Walton Street, followed by Bedroom Farce at the National Theatre. And today I'm just in from coffee with Penelope Keith. Call me Penny. Everybody does. She's such a decent sort and completely and utterly and exactly like margot in the good life i sat there being docile like jerry while she gave me coffee and agreed to front one of our cartoon books oh that's nice giles it is nice and think i knew penny keith from then 1978 until this year when she sadly died and i in fact i went to the wonderful funeral and memorial service for her at um guildford cathedral only last week so how did you meet you asked her to?

28:40What I was doing in publishing, and that's why I was meeting somebody like Gail Rebuck, who went on to become one of the biggest people in British publishing, maybe in world publishing, was I had the idea of really, I built a small company where we created books and attached to them celebrity names. We were pioneers in this field. It became something that everybody was doing after a while. So I would get in touch with famous people like Penny Keith, who's famous for being in the good life. And I'd say, would you like to put your name to a book? This is the book we put your name to, and we'll give you a share of the royalties and some money in advance.

29:16And they said yes. And we did a whole range of books with famous people. So it gave me an excuse to meet interesting and famous people that I like the sound of and do business with them. Great. Tuesday, the 4th of April, 1978. This morning, I travelled up on the train from Cardiff with Lord George Brown. Our former foreign secretary clearly had no recollection of the drunken stupor he was in last night. He recalled having a drink with me in my room, but not crawling around my bed on all fours.

29:48Harriet: What? Yeah. What was interesting was that though he drank copiously, I don't think he drank more than I did. But the effect on him was extraordinary. He is aware that he has a problem. he told me a story of being at the United Nations in New York and having to give a speech after lunch he'd had a glass or two but thought he was fine and he was fine until just before he rose to speak when he reached forward and picked out a grape from the arrangement of fruit that was the dining table centerpiece he popped the grape in his mouth and bit into it it was made of wax He struggled to speak as he chewed on the wax grape, but the words came out all wrong.

30:33They thought I was drunk, of course, but I wasn't. And he wasn't drunk either on the night President Kennedy died when he appeared on TV in what appeared to be a state of alcoholic confusion. I was emotional. Of course I was. Jack Kennedy was my friend. Boldly, I asked him for the truth About the famous story of him At an official reception at the British Embassy in Lima Approaching a vision in scarlet As the band struck up And requesting the honour of the next dance Only for the vision to turn to him and say Mr Brown, I will not dance with you for three reasons One, you are drunk Two, this is the national anthem of Peru And three, I'm the Cardinal Archbishop of Montevideo Is that true?

31:21True story. Oh, that's a great story. True and well-known story. But, as you'll see from my diary, George Brown denied it absolutely. Said he'd never been to South America, but was almost sorry there was nothing in it because it's such a good story. I like him. Oh, that's a fun story. And I did like him. And as you'll see, Michelle and I became friends of his and his wife, Sophie. This afternoon at 2pm at Atlantic House, Hoban Viaduct, I attended the official receivers' creditors' meeting, re-Simon Clark. We won the case, but will not get a penny. There's nothing there. But we have equity on our side as well.

31:59Simon Clark will not work as a producer in this country again, and I have the feeling he may die young. Michelle's friend Veronica tells the story of seeing Simon Clark's father swimming out to a boat she was on in the Mediterranean, holding a tray of drinks aloft as he swam. Halfway there, he had a stroke, sank and died. As our friend Noel Davis likes to say, God is not mocked. Happier news. One, Simon Cadell has a new girlfriend, Stephanie Turner. She has a pointy nose and comes from Bradford. But even so, we like her. Two, we're about to take Bennett on his first ride on Tonka at long last.

32:42Three, I'm getting to grips with the 1975-76 income tax At long last, sort of Sunday the 30th of April 1978 My son has written a loan on his pony for the first time Bennett on Tonka was a lovely sight to see Being a father isn't bad And we had a McDonald's picnic afterwards Whatever they say, I love a quarter pounder with cheese and I adore the fries. Mrs. Power, my new part-time secretary, is a huge success. She is small, trim, spruce, a neat little body, who lives in Shepherd's Bush with her husband and two boys and comes to me to collect tapes, takes them away and brings back the work, all done up in a folder.

33:33It's my kind of relationship. We barely need to meet. Went for a Drink with James Mickey Oh, James Mickey was an English poet Really, he was quite eccentric And I think he was then working for the publisher of Botley Head Went for a Drink with James Mickey At 84 Eton Terrace He's a poet, translator And editor whose authors include Sylvia Plath, Anthony Burgess Alexander Solzhenitsyn And now me I'm doing a book about darts for him I know nothing about darts, so it's a bit of a trial. He's hugely amiable, tells funny stories about W.H. Auden, loves my children's names. He has a son called Drogo.

34:16But, my dear, his home is a pigsty. He led me down into the basement, clambering over manuscripts piled higgledy-piggledy on the stairs, charming, into a dark and dusty kitchen where there was nowhere to sit and the sink was piled high with a month's supply of filthy pots and pans. Not charming. He gave me a glass of wine and I tried to drink it without letting my lips touch the edge of the glass. Tuesday the 23rd of May 1978. I'm in my room at the Beverly Hotel Cardiff. The light from the single bulb in the ceiling is so dim I can barely see to write. I'm just in from supper with Lady Isabel Barnett and Winford Vaughan Thomas.

35:03Isabel and I get on so well she's one of my favourite people but always instantly at ease with one another that is so rare for me that I even forgive her her non-stop smoking I'd just like to say Harriet, she really was a lovely person have you heard of her even? no she was a doctor and a JP she became very well known as a radio and television personality in the 1950s and she took her own life shortly after being caught shoplifting from her village store. Isn't that heartbreaking? When she was only 62. Oh, dear. And she was one of the loveliest people I've ever known. And she, obviously, she was born in 1918, so she was 30 years older than me.

35:49She was very glamorous, very attractive. We got on just so easily. She treated me like a normal person. And... That's so sweet. I try and treat you like a normal person. Well, can I say, I feel I get on with you as easily as I got on with her. But can I just ask, that's so terrible. What happened? Why do you think she did that shoplifting? And why did she then feel so bad that she took her own life? Well, she was a pillar of respectability. She was Lady Isabel Barnett. She was a GP. She was a professional woman, as well as a JP. Oh, a doctor and a magistrate. Justice of the Peace, yes. She had a position in society.

36:33She was seen as a lady. She was a household name in the country in the 1950s and 1960s, and very glamorous. So she had a real position to uphold. I'm not sure what her marital state was. I can't remember that. I did go to her home. She smoked all the time. I think towards the end of her life, she was lonely. I then I wasn't then we joke about it a menopause ambassador I don't know what was happening in her head in her body at that time I seem to remember there was a son who may have had problems as well a biography was written of her that I did read there are things in her life that weren't easy so she may have been having some kind of breakdown she was having a breakdown and she had been stealing repeatedly from the village shop and it was discovered that she had what is called a poacher's coat.

37:27And she was doing this as a habit. Now, was this seeking attention? Was it a cry for help? I think the shop had warned her before and she was eventually caught. And I think she was tried. I think she was sentenced to some non-custodial thing. And I'm afraid it was front-page news in every newspaper. She was a household name. She was as well-known and as much-loved, in a way, is somebody like Mary Berry. It was that sort of status she had in the country. But also, it was a different age, and there was much more snobbery and deferential. She was seen to be a lady and a person of position in Leicestershire, where she lived.

38:08She probably was a deputy lieutenant. She may even have been the high sheriff. She was that sort of a person. And it was such a fall from grace for her. She couldn't cope with it, and she took her own life. It's a devastating story. It sounds as if she might have been having some sort of manic episode. You know, that sort of behaviour, shoplifting, or some people go on mad spending sprees, or they're unfaithful or promiscuous. You know, maybe she was having... I would like... I tell you, I loved her so much. I would like... I've got a biography of her at home, and I'm going to do a little bit of research about her.

38:48We might talk about her another day to celebrate her. Yeah. Because here we've been talking about the sadness of it. But also, look at that. Isabel and I get on so well. She's one of my favourite people, you know. And this is only two years before she takes her own life. And yet she was so nice to me. Such a sad story. I'm so sorry that happened to her. Yeah. And she didn't have anyone to help her. That's really sad. Anyway. Yeah. It's made me think a bit of Anne Whittacombe somehow. Sorry. it's just what you say about her being a pillar of society but the thing with Anne Whittigam is Anne Whittigam was a happy and fulfilled person yeah, no and she didn't take her own life, she was murdered she was murdered, whereas there's a kind of different I think this is a very different tragedy I'd love if I may to do a bit of homework and maybe the next time we do diaries I'll come and tell her a bit more about her and fill out the story a bit more

39:46Harriet: yeah, well R.I.P Lady Isabel Barnett. RIP Lady Isabel Barnett. And actually anybody who's listening who's of my vintage maybe drop us a line to remind people of Harriet's generation and younger people what a special person she was in our society. She was one of those people that everybody liked and respected. That's very sad. And you can see I obviously did love her. That is so rare a thing for me that I even forgive her her non-stop smoking. You see she smoked all the time. Absolutely all the time. It was another sign of someone that's maybe a bit unhappy. And she was incredibly thin. I remember that.

40:20Yeah. And very elegant. The other person I was with was Winford Vaughan Thomas. Winford Vaughan Thomas is a wily Welsh windbag, but good value. He told a story tonight that he swears is true. As a young reporter for the BBC in the late 1930s, he was sent to interview the former Prime Minister, David Lloyd George. He arrived at the Great Man's Hotel and was sent up to his room. He knocked. Come, commanded Lloyd George. Vaughan Thomas entered, and he found the old goat sitting up in bed, naked, with a couple of tarts either side of him, breasts exposed. Lloyd George was utterly unabashed and recorded the interview where he was, how he was.

41:06Vaughan Thomas hurried back to the BBC with his recording equipment and told his editor what had happened. Just give me the tape, boy, he ordered And keep quiet about the rest Winford Vaughan Thomas, Harriet Was a very distinguished BBC reporter for many years Famous during the Second World War As one of the BBC's war correspondents There is no reason why he should have invented that story About David Lloyd George The famous, distinguished Liberal Prime Minister Gosh, people got away with murder in those days, didn't they? Yes. I don't know. Does anyone come out of it badly? I'm not sure that they do.

41:48Well, maybe they do. I mean, it's just... I don't know. Maybe this sort of thing's going on all around us now, but just life seemed so much more colourful. It did seem colourful. And I love the fact that he went back, he was a young reporter, told his editor, you know, I've just seen Lloyd George in bed with a couple of girls. Yeah, the Prime Minister. He was a former Prime Minister. But even so, it would have been a story. I don't think you can get away with that now. No. And the editor says, oh, don't mention it, darling. Give me the interview. We'll use the interview. But also the boldness of Lloyd George giving his views about the result of the general election with these two comely girls.

42:23With their baps out. Yeah. Whoa.

42:28We shouldn't perhaps be laughing. If you're one of those two girls, please get in touch. Yes. We will treat you with the respect that is your due. Absolutely. Yeah.

42:47I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked, and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company.

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45:41Tuesday, the 4th of July, 1978. I'm just in from my first driving lesson. It's a nightmare, but I must and will do it. My instructor has already suggested I simply learn to drive an automatic. I've said no. I'm going the whole hog, however long it takes. He thinks it may take some years. You know, I was now, I was 30. And you still haven't passed your test, Giles. I still haven't passed my test. No, no, I mean you still haven't passed your test. Oh, you are so unfair, Harriet Jane. I'm now, I think, quite a good driver. But it was a nightmare. Yesterday. You know everyone thinks they're a good driver, don't you?

46:26I didn't know that. Yeah. I didn't. Do they? I mean, I haven't got the data, but I think most people, if asked, would say they were a good driver. And all the evidence shows most people aren't a good driver. Who knows? Who knows? Maybe you're a good driver, Charles. I've never seen you drive. Yesterday, we went to Northern Place School again. It is the school for Bennett. We've seen several. It's a nightmare. How do you choose? We were seriously tempted by Hill House, but the self-consciously eccentric headmaster is a touch elderly now, and the uniform is ludicrous, and it's a bit too far to get to.

47:06But Norland Place is perfect, sane, down the road, and the lost boys went there. Who could ask for anything more? Only problem, no room. We should have put Bennett down the minute he was born. Seriously, we didn't, and consequently, he's way, way down the waiting list. I did my best to flutter my eyelids at Mrs. Garnsey, headmistress. She said, there was very little hope. I said, never mind, I'll keep badgering you. She said, you do that, Mr. Brandreth, keep badgering. So I did. Yesterday afternoon, I went to Harrods' toy department and at vast expense bought a huge, soft, cuddly toy Badger. I delivered it to the school in person.

47:50The school secretary has just called. Bennett starts in September. Yes! Tuesday the 18th. Harriet is shaking her head in disbelief and maybe disgust that I should try and jump the queue by giving the headmistress the gift of a badger. Tuesday the 18th of July, 1978. This morning at 5am, Michelle said, I've got to go. I've phoned for a taxi. This is our third child. I'll be driving by the time we have our sixth. I know I will. We raced to the Middlesex Hospital and at 11.05am, our lovely little baby girl, Afra Kendall Alice Brandreth, was born. I nearly fainted. When Bennett was born, it was all so serious.

48:41I was kept out of the room. When Scythrid arrived, I was there and almost useful. Well, I kept saying keep breathing. But this morning I was overcome. Seeing Michelle in such pain, all the sweating and pushing, a nurse wheeled me into an adjacent room to recover. I was back for the birth, the arrival of our little scrap covered in blood and squawking. She's here and she's healthy and all's well with the world. Aphra is named in honour of Mrs Aphra Benn, the first woman to earn her living as a writer. and Michelle's mother, Kendall, and Ma, Alice. We want happiness all round. I'm keeping today's newspaper to put in a time capsule for my girl, though I can't pretend today is a hot day for news.

49:30The headlines? West Germany and Japan agree to boost economic expansion. Police get rises of up to 45%. Mrs Thatcher urges ending aid to Russia unless behaviour improves. She's doing well And on the inside pages There's plenty of speculation About the election And the prospects For Thatcher versus Callaghan Today's birthdays Lists no one I've heard of Sir Ivo Sturton Sir John Partridge Sir Robert Steed But on the front page There's this Nelson Mandela is 60 The undisputed leader Of South Africa's blacks Who wish to free themselves From white domination is serving a life sentence on Robben Island and apparently 10 ,000 birthday cards have been sent to him from the UK.

50:25Fascinating. That is fascinating. Later I was to encounter Nelson Mandela and indeed visited the prison at Robben Island. Have you been to South Africa? No, I'd love to. If ever you go to Cape Town, do go to Robben Island. It really is fascinating, very moving. and when we went, which was many years ago, obviously after Mandela was released, the people who showed you round were former prisoners themselves. Oh, gosh. Really riveting. Wow. Is that where we're finishing? With the birth of my daughter, Aphra, who is now the Member of Parliament for Chester South and Edgisbury. Woo-hoo. Bless her. Gosh, you're really churning out the children at this point.

51:04Churning out the children. Charles, I didn't even know Michelle was pregnant. Churn, churn, churn. Yeah. Well, the point is, this is not every extract from the diary. Oh, yeah. Because this is edited highlights, the golden moments. So you edited out the Night of Aphra's Conception. Conception? Yeah. Edited out the, yes. There is, as you know, a separate diary. Oh, the X-rated. The X-rated diary. Has that got Aphra's Conception in it? Who knows? Who knows? Maybe it was a virgin birth, Giles. They do happen. They do have. And given the special nature of Aphra, indeed all three of our children, the conception could well have been immaculate.

51:49I like to feel that it was. You've either got or you haven't got style. Can you remember the conception of your children? Gosh, that is a question. I think I can, actually. Yeah. Oh. The two times that I have had sex. Yeah. Yeah. Both very, very memorable. Good. Wonderful times. Can I say, well, the three times we use the pipette for the conception of my three children, the question is, who is the father? Yay! Enough of this nonsense. We're joking or are we joking? that's what you listeners can ponder between now and next week well there we go so that's it uh for this week's diaries it is do we have an email we had one at the top of the show did we we did have one at the top of the show we had one from jemma o 'connor all about rehearsals and performances so back to rehearsal back to performance thank you so much for listening to rosebud this friday i think we may have one of my favorite actors lots of people have asked for this actor.

52:54Shall we tell them who we think it may be? He's coming up soon. Yeah. Martin Clunes. Yeah. One of the most requested guests. People have said, oh, we'd love Martin Clunes because they loved Doc Martin. They loved, was it Men Behaving Badly? What was it? Yeah, I loved that show. A lot of fun. They love his work and been interested to see what he's really like. Yeah. Charming, I imagine. I hope so. Yeah. We've never had anyone who wasn't charming, have we? Have we had anyone who behaved badly, rudely? No, I think we have. The only person that behaves badly around here is me. No, you're marvellous.

53:30Okay, I'm just going to put it on record. I love you, Harriet. You can put that out if you want or not, depending on how you feel. Anyway, I think you're fantastic. Harriet, Behaving Badly, that's a new hit series that's coming out soon. Oh, you might do the pilot for that now. Seriously, can I shake my hand there, Harriet? Shake my hand, shake my hand. Thank you. Well done. A good... There we are. So that's it for this week's diaries. We'll be back with more diaries in a couple of weeks' time. We do the diaries every other week, but occasionally we slip in an extra interview. So if it's not completely as you'd expect, that's because we like to surprise people.

54:09As advice given by the great Noel Coward playwright to aspiring performers, be like a rabbit. Keep coming out of a different hole. Surprise your audience. Boo! That's it. That's it. Gosh. That's it from Rosebud. Until next time, cue the music. Complaints to hello at rosebudpodcast.com. If anyone had a heart attack then, it's not my fault, it's Giles.

54:54Thank you.

55:37I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. while employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold. IT desperately wants to automate this work and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English and it's built. No drag and drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company.

56:16This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

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