More Rosebud - Gyles's diary, episode 12: the first half of 1965 - Debs' Delights, Gyles's 17th birthday, and Churchill's funeral

0:00Hello, this is More Rosebud. Every Tuesday we have an episode of More Rosebud. Last Tuesday was the 1 April and our guest was Harry Hill. We invited him especially because, of course, it was April Fool's Day. And we thought it'd be rather fun if Harry came and told us his life story the way he wanted to. It was Harry Hill's April Fool's Day rosebud. But amusingly, a few of our listeners didn't realise it was an April Fool. Even better, the Daily Mail was one of the newspapers that didn't realise it was an April Fool. In fact, the Daily Mail ran two stories based on Harry Hill's amusing April Fool Rosebud, as though it was hot news and, indeed, exclusive to them.

0:47It wasn't. They heard it first on Rosebud. But we fooled them. I'm sure we didn't fool you. But if we did, do listen again. Harry Hill is very funny, very inventive. That was last Tuesday's Rosebud. What's coming up now? Cue the Tuesday music. No fooling.

1:23it's a tuesday which means this is an episode of more rosebud which is rosebud with a bit of a twist. And the first twist we have is to tell you that my producer, Harriet Jane, always pops up on a Tuesday. How are you feeling, Harriet, about the way it's going for you? Oh, it's going very well, Giles, because we got into the top 10 this week, didn't we? We are now a top 10 multi-million download podcast, which I'm thrilled about and very happy about that. What I love about our podcast, frankly, is I feel it's intelligent. And we meet interesting people and we listen to their intelligent conversation.

2:04And it's a real rollercoaster. Also, I was just thinking, this year alone, we've had the privilege of spending time with, well, who did we have last week? The great Potter, Sir Grayson Perry. Amazing. Josh Whittacombe the week before. Very different personality, equally attractive. I tell you what I love. I love meeting these people and finding often what lovely human beings they are. And often I find if they're in the news, they're on Rosebud. Somehow we do an episode of Rosebud and then suddenly they're popping up everywhere in other respects. Also, we got Dave Mary Berry for her 90th birthday before anyone else.

2:39That's true. We're in ahead of it. And she made you a cake, which was actually the wrong way around. You should have made her a cake. I should have made her a cake. It was a delicious cake too. Oh, she's fantastic. Coffee and walnut. Can you make cakes, Charles? I can. And I've actually baked a few cakes in my time. Really? Yes. And I went through a phase of making scones with some of my grandchildren. Oh, that's a nice thing to do. But I'm not much of a cook, as you know. You are. I like cooking. Do you do proper evening meals for your children? Yes, I cook something every night from scratch.

3:10Good grief. I'm addicted to this cookbook I've got called The Roasting Tin, where you cook everything in a roasting tin. So all you have to do is cut up various... We're vegetarian. So cut up quite a lot of vegetables usually. And some sort of like halloumi or paneer, some protein. Put it in a roasting tin. Then usually make a nice sauce to go on it. They're all really good. So that's what... We tend to eat something like that. The roasting tin. This is a book, is it? There's a series of them. Are they sponsoring Rosebud? They should. I think they should now. Yeah. Rosebud is sponsored by the roasting tin.

3:47Yes. I think she's made a lot of money, this lady who wrote these books. Good. Because I'm cooking every meal. Well, look, let her push some of it our way. Yes. We need sponsorship to maintain the quality. We do. If you want to sponsor Rosebud, by the way, and you're out there, drop us a line at hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Why not? We are the top ten multi-million download podcast. Do you know what, Giles, actually? I should have told you this. Do you remember the time that we had to pay the excess fare when we went to see Sir James Dyson? Do I remember? Yes, I certainly do. It was a lot of money.

4:15It was a lot of money. I mean, I'm still paying that off because it was over£100. Someone emailed in and said, why don't you let me pay? You know, you should have a thing at the end where you can buy me a coffee. You should have something where the listeners can contribute some money. That's a lovely idea. We do have advertising around us. That's what pays for it. That's what makes it happen. And we're grateful to the advertisers. Some people say, oh, is there going to be an ad-free option? And we're looking at that possibility. Though I quite like ads. I don't mind ads. No. Or some sort of club or membership.

4:51But I don't want to become exclusive. I want us to be open to the world. Because what I like to feel Rosebud is becoming is a kind of audio archive of the interesting people of our time. Because it's an opportunity for people to talk, you know, for an hour or more about their early lives, about what's made them the people they are. And we are so lucky that we do get, literally, Oscar winners. prime ministers, presidents, princes I mean really remarkable people sharing their stories. We also get on a Tuesday, me sharing mine. We're going on with the diary and where have we got to? 1965 Are you born yet?

5:30No I'm never going to reveal my age, you know that I do know that, but I think you genuinely aren't born yet. No I'm not, I'd be 60 Yes, exactly I wouldn't be doing this, would I? I'll be doing something proper. I hope when you're 60 you will be doing this. I'll have a proper job by then, darling. No, you'll be doing this still at 60. I mean, come on, only 20 years to go. So I want you doing this. I want, because you are very much part and parcel of it. Or to share with people that it's just the two of us. It's just Giles and Harriet. And sometimes our guests bring somebody with them, though often they bring somebody with them and they keep them in the other room.

6:11I remember we're recording today at my home when Pam Ayers came she put her husband in the kitchen when Wayne Sleep came he put his husband in the kitchen yes and they like and I like that I like the intimacy of it because it feels well I hope they are intimate these diaries are at times perhaps a bit too intimate so if you were at school with me I apologize for invading your privacy 60 or more years later. Well, this is 60 years ago. But I was thinking, if we ever did this live on stage, you were saying we could do the Diaries live on stage. Yeah. And I mean, we have to get pobs. We have to get the pobs there, don't we?

6:49I'd love to see pobs again. Pobs? Are you out there, pobs? If you're there, pobs, she probably won't even remember me. You can see from the letters from her how full of common sense she was. She's moving on to bigger and better things. She did. I'm sure she's moved on to bigger and better things. She may be a grandmother. but that's all the more reason that we want to see pobs so if you're out there pobs um we'd love to hear from you and you know the email address i'm sure it's hello at rosebudpodcast.com that would be fun wouldn't it giles i'm not so sure i'm not so sure do we want to meet yesterday today well they say don't they always they always say don't meet your heroes and there could be something in that don't meet people you fancied when you were 14 or 15 anyway let's move on i don't know I mean, lots of people get together.

7:37What are you saying? I was going to say lots of people get together again, don't they? Do they? Things like Friends Reunited with their old... Oh, their old flames. With their teenage... It was huge. When Friends Reunited was big, I think it was a huge thing. Do you think Pops is going to re-enter the scene and rock my marriage after 55 years? Well, when she does, we'll do a Rosebud special on it. I think we will. Oh, dearie me. So watch this space, everyone. Oh, gosh. Honestly. Right, we'd better start on the diaries. Is Rosebud allowed to come along to the Relate meetings and record? You have to get special permission from the therapist.

8:14It's not usually a done thing, is it? Okay. We've got to the year 1965. And I think at the end of the last term, I'm at a school called Beedales in Hampshire. At the end of last term, the headmaster, Mr. Slack, had asked me if I'd be in charge of the celebrations for the centenary, the 100th birthday of the founder of the school, a man called John Baddeley, who was alive, coming up to be 100, and still living in the school grounds. Wednesday, 27 January 1965. I had tea today with Mr. Baddeley. We had lemon sponge cake with butter icing and talked about Winston Churchill and Oscar Wilde. The chief, that was the nickname for Mr.

8:58Baddeley, the chief said that Churchill, who had died on the 24th of January, age 90, was the greatest Englishman of our time. He possessed the cardinal virtue, said Mr. Baddeley, courage. According to the chief, Churchill's speeches during the Second World War were much more than brilliant pieces of well-crafted oratory. They were expressions of courage that got into the national bloodstream and gave us courage too. i asked him who were the greatest speakers he had heard in his long lifetime the chief was born 10 years before churchill he said sir winston david lloyd george and the chief's friend rabindranath tagore now he do you know about him harriet he was an indian philosopher 1861 to 1941 and he wrote one of his most memorable poems actually speak to me of him following a visit he made to my school B-Dales in 1920.

9:57I said to Mr Baddeley that Bernard Shaw described Oscar Wilde as the greatest talker of his time, perhaps of all time. The chief said that Shaw was right, but that Wilde was a conversationalist, not an orator. He also told me that much of Oscar's famous wit wasn't spontaneous. It was worked on, rehearsed and studied. He recalled staying at a house party in Cambridge with Oscar and travelling back with him to London by train. Assorted fellow guests came to the station to see them on their way. At the moment the train was due to pull out, Wilde, standing at the carriage window, delivered a wonderful farewell quip.

10:40Then the guard blew the whistle and waved his green flag. The admirers on the platform cheered. Oscar sank back into his seat and the train moved off unfortunately it only moved a yard or two before juddering to a halt the group on the platform gathered again outside the compartment occupied by oscar and mr badly oscar hid behind his newspaper and hissed at the chief you talk to them now they've had my parting shot i only prepared one amazing to get gossip first hand i know first hand i mean it is amazing you were saying to me the other day that you thought because i was saying i hadn't had a very exciting youth compared with say grace and perry and you were saying you thought my youth had been exciting enough yeah maybe compare with yours it was very i mean full of incident but this is a good example of it but it's a one remove it's an Oscar Wilde story but told to me a few years later and just to clarify Giles by this point you were already a fan of Oscar Wilde yes I was fascinated by Oscar Wilde already and I suppose what age am I now it's January 65 I'm 16 I went to watch the Churchill funeral at Hegg's house Hegg those are the initials of Haddle Gardner who was the English teacher there were a dozen of us and we sat on the floor in their small sitting room perched on the arms of the sofa etc i felt bad for haig and mrs gardner because people were fidgeting and chattering and the gardeners wanted to concentrate on the service haig became quite snappy be quiet this man saved your country if you don't want to watch you can leave no one left it was moving to see how moved the gardeners were and it was moving to watch the ceremony the pageantry was impressive and the commentary by Richard Dimbleby was just right.

12:36He is so good at it. He has a wonderfully rich voice and his tone and timing are always spot on. It was a state funeral, the only one given to a statesman this century. The great man's coffin lay in state in Westminster Hall for three days while 300 ,000 people, including Pa, filed past. The funeral was held at St Paul's Cathedral with the Queen and all the royal family and Harold Wilson and the Prime Ministers and Presidents and Representatives of more than 110 nations in attendance. We watched from 10 to 12 until the 19-gun salute and the RAF flypast when Churchill's body was taken to Tower Hill and piped aboard a launch to go up the Thames to its final resting place in the graveyard at Blayden near Blenheim.

13:25It was a morning spent watching history happen and thanks to TV it was seen as it happened all over the world. Sunday 21 February 1965. Today is the 100th birthday of John Hayden Baddeley, the founder of B-Dales. He's in good heart and good health and he certainly seemed to enjoy the show last night. At least he said he did. He looked very smart and upright. He wore a tie, unusually, and a white shirt with a large floppy collar. We called the show The Badly Beano. He said he didn't want anything too solemn. I'm not dead yet. And we did it twice, once on Friday for old medallions and invited guests, then yesterday for the school.

14:14The chief had asked for Shakespeare, so part two was the last act of Midsummer Night's Dream, directed by Kate Slack, the headmaster's wife, and part one was the variety bill with assorted generations of big aliens doing turns. This was the bit I devised and compared, and I think, hope, a good time was had by all. There was much cheering anyway, and the opening moment, small child walking down the aisle to hand the chief a bunch of snowdrops, worked a treat, not a dry eye in the house. Sunday, 28th February, 1965. The month is at an end already, and what have I achieved? My ten top activities this term.

14:55One, helping Hegg with his jaw in memory of T.S. Eliot, who had died on the 4th of January. I performed Macavity and managed not to mention that I knew the great man, or that T.S. Eliot is an anagram of toilets. What's a jaw, Charles? Ah, a jaw is a talk, as in jaw-jaw, jawing away. it's what we call the Sunday evening assembly oh yes I think you've mentioned it once before and maybe maybe we had them every night I think we gathered every night there was a longer one on Sundays but it was yes it was known as jaw two being business manager of the chronicle I've secured the advertising and the new printers and today I'll be sitting down with Mark Kiddell co-editor to finalize the content.

15:41Three, I have turned interviewer. My first face-to-face for the Chronicle is with the Reverend Snelgar, Vicar of Steep. Why do you believe in God? Because he is ultimately unavoidable. Good question, good answer, good interview overall, I hope. Barney has taken excellent shots of us wandering among the gravestones BBC style. Four, I'm running the paperback bookshop a new venture of mine i love choosing and ordering the stock mainly from penguin and pan i love the smell and feel of the new books when they arrive the smell especially i love it when we make a sale five i'm running the cycling proficiency tests and have the local police in 10 days to see us in action six i'm giving a talk on homosexual law reform.

16:35Seven, finance committee. Eight, library. Nine, speech comp. Ten, the badly beano. Oh, and while I'm here, up in my favourite bay in the library and reviewing the situation, who are my top ten friends? One, Jackie. Two, Bob's. Three, Gail. This is in no particular order, I say in brackets there, for Miranda Harrison, Skinny's younger sister. History should know that Skinny Harrison was the most beautiful girl in the school, even though she wore glasses. Interesting, is that not? History does not need to know that I gave Skinny a rose one Sunday after Jaw, and I think she threw it away. Oh well.

17:26Five, Julia wake who is beautiful too six ali ball who is fun seven antonia burrows i like the way she doodles in baro on her thighs and shows me during class eight die ambash nine lukey healing ten willow greenwood eleven stephanie clare i'm not sure why i put her in the list she's a new girl and she's crazy. She keeps sending me mad love notes across the dining room in the middle of meals. Perhaps that's why I'm including her. I hardly know her, but I like her hair and her funny crooked nose. OK, that's more than ten, and you've noticed they're all girls. And of course, and of course, many of my favourites, Beetle, Tessa Ventress, Helen Levinson, etc., have now left.

18:22My male friends, top five, Peter, Fumbly Harris, Mark Cadell, Chris Irwin, ham arnold barney i don't know what we make of that long list there i mean it's fascinating giles so would you were your friends more girls than boys uh well look what does i say i have to say reading that out for the first time probably since i wrote it down um all of them came vividly back to me including the one at the end but funnily enough over the years and we're talking now more than half a century, her funny crooked nose is often cropped up in my head. Isn't that odd? It was so attractive. Anyway, this is ridiculous.

19:05I don't know that I should be... So, it's interesting that you are more friends with girls than boys. Is that still the case, do you think? Yes, probably. I don't know. Well, possibly because of the worlds in which I've worked I've found myself working more with females than males um well look at us and also I've written a lot of books a lot of publishers are women often my editors are women well what this is telling you is what I was like at 16 yeah that's true let's put that put that in perspective okay yeah there we are

19:54Friday the 5th of March 1965. The night before last it snowed many inches, and the roads are blocked, the posts delayed, no letters since the 3rd, food running low, and too much time spent with shovels almost knee-deep in the wretched stuff. Last night, for over an hour, we were without electricity, and so fumbled our ways to bed by candle and flickering torchlight. This morning, my splendid Selfridge's alarm clock woke the world, or at least our little corner of it, at six and I stumbled down to this machine. I've commandeered the careers room on the first landing overlooking the quad and I'm using it as my office.

20:32No one seems to mind. The machine must have been the typewriter I was writing this on. What's the news? Everything here trundles along much the same. Busy bee business all day long. Up early, down late, work and pleasure just as it always is so as i approach my 17th birthday life's pleasant and i'm happy i have been feasting myself on early birthday treats from home 36 inches of miz or lions chocolates that's the length of the box fudge and tangies i'm saving the nuts twiglets and cake for the weekend 36 inches that's three feet yeah three feet a long box of chocolates three feet long blimey child that sounds absolutely amazing yeah well i was coming up to my 17th birthday well how wonderful yeah not a lot has changed the list of my girls i admired and my adoration for chocolates yes maybe the priorities have slipped slightly and i'm now more into the chocolates i'm saving the nuts twiglets and cake for the weekend.

21:37On Sunday, I shall have lunch at the Reeds, that's Jackie's household, and tea with Martin Sorrell, the French teacher, who celebrates his 23rd birthday on the 7th, the day before mine. Special note, the menu for Sunday will include chocolate mousse. So will my tea with Mr. Badley on the 8th. Mr. Badley's housekeeper, Anne Cook, looks after me well. I very much like the idea of marking my 17th birthday by taking tea with the centenarian who knew Oscar Wilde. Wednesday, the 10th of March, 1965. Goldie, the London Zoo Golden Eagle, has been recaptured after 10 days of freedom. I'm in my office with a lemon curd tart and a mug of tea preparing my notes on Oscar Wilde.

22:26The chief told me that the reason that Oscar was such a wonderful conversationalist is that he could listen as well as talk. we exchanged our favorite wild witticisms mine after a good meal one can forgive anyone even family the chief's murder is always a mistake a gentleman should never do anything he cannot talk about at dinner the chief said wild always put himself out to be entertaining he was a delightful person charming and brilliant with the most perfect manners of any man i ever met. Because of his imprisonment and disgrace, he is seen nowadays as a tragic figure. That should not be his lasting memorial.

23:08I knew him quite well. He was such fun. Tuesday, the 6th of April, 1965. I will not make this mistake again. I'm on holiday in Cornwall. I've come down here with a group of younger teachers and some fellow bedalians, and we are renting a house. We drove down from Jackie's on Saturday, Martin Sorrell driving, and eventually found the village of Lerin, where we are staying. The village is unspoilt, just south of Lost Withio, on the river that turns into the sea at Foy. Cornwall is very beautiful, but we're lost in the heart of nowhere. Life is pleasant enough, but idle, which is tedious. The air and the company are not conducive to work.

23:56I've done little reading, less writing. I have decided that next term I'm going to undertake a complete survey of English literature from 1550 to 1660, starting with drama. I shall read everything. We've driven to Foy, very touristified, and Mevigissie, and are going to Padstow. This afternoon we drove to the Atlantic coast and wandered along the deserted beach. I may well return to town earlier than planned, if I run out of interesting walks, books and patience. The truth is, I am hating it here. I have managed to follow the budget. James Callaghan had become Chancellor of the Exchequer, Labour's Chancellor of the Exchequer, in October 1964.

24:41I think this was his second budget. In some respects, very conservative. But Callaghan put up a very poor amateur show when he was interviewed. Lots of feeble jokes. Ho, ho. not impressive. Unbelievably, the Daily Mail is the best paper available in either Leroy or Loss Rithiel. I doubt very much that I'll be able to get hold of a spectator on Friday. This really is the end of the world. Never again. Never. Monday, 12th April, 1965. A fine edition of the Times today. On the front page, the usual notices, with the personal column headed by some wise words from St Matthew. Watch and pray that he enter not into temptation.

25:24The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. On the back page, a fine portrait of the Prince of Wales on his pony in Windsor Great Park yesterday when he played polo. The Duke of Edinburgh also took part in the game. And in between, at the very centre of page 11, a robust contribution to the debate on the budget from one G.D. Brandreth of 5H Portman Mansion's London W1. My first letter to the Times. It looks good and reads well. Also in the Times, and of interest, on the facing page, reports of Mr Wilson handling hecklers in Reading and feeling fine, and Mr Brown in Derby having a busy day, travelling 250 miles and holding five meetings and also feeling fine.

26:10alongside a dramatic, very dramatic photograph of United States Marines landing near Da Nong, South Vietnam to help defend the airbase. Also interesting to me, on page 6 from our political correspondent in a day or two backbenchers in the Commons will have been enjoying the benefits of their salary rise from£1 ,750 to£3 ,250 for a full six months and it is not too early to begin noting the effects that the change has had or is likely to have on the proceedings of the House and the attitude of its members to their work. There is already little doubt that the payment of better salaries is quickening the process of turning membership of the Commons into a full-time job.

26:58This is a day for celebration. I have bought a new typewriter at Selfridges. £24.15. Excellent. I have phoned Bob's. Also excellent. Monday, 26th April 1965. I've just got in from another of my nights as a Deb's Delight. I don't think it is my natural métier. I dress the part. Dinner jacket, evening shirt, cufflinks, black bow tie. I sound the part. Oh, what ho! Good evening, sir. How good to meet you. And your lovely wife. But I don't feel the part. I've got into this because of Penny Wilson. I met her at the speech comp I really like her but she lives in a strange world a lot of braying goes on and smoking she's introduced me to her set all girls from Francis Holland School and Queensgate School Rodine, Benenden etc they really do winnie like horses in the minibus tonight taking our party from the drinks at 1 Upper Harley Street Shea Diana Ferguson and such fun to hurling them for the easter egg ball the big busted girl squashed next to me said have you ever seen a match burn twice i said no and she proceeded to light a match and hold it up saying look it's burning once then she took the burning match and stubbed it out on my knuckles look it's burning twice she guffawed and guffawed and guffawed until i thought she was going to wet herself.

28:29The burn was very painful. And Harriet, just look at this. 60, nearly 70, well, long, 60 years later, that's the mark. Gosh, that must have hurt. Yeah. This hooray Harriet. Yeah. Whenever she was called. On a minibus. On a minibus. Going to the Easter Egg Ball. With a lot of other of these brain girls. And were you able to cry? You couldn't cry? No. No. Giles. Anyway, anyway. That's what came of fancying Penny Wilson, you see, from a different school, different sort of girl. Anyway, never mind. Just to clarify, what's the Deb's Delight? Oh, oh. Something to do with debutantes. Something to do with debutantes.

29:12Boys, young men, who were sort of suitable to take to these dances were known as Deb's Delights. And they didn't, I mean, I would have been the only one at B-Dales. They went to schools like Harrow or Eton or Rugby. They were sort of those sorts of chaps. Okay. Or they were sort of army families. Just for people that haven't heard of any of these schools, because not everyone moves in these circles, Giles. No, but people... These are public schools. Less bohemian, less, you know, more... Well, these are very conventional. Rugby playing boarding schools. These are old traditional... Boarding schools.

29:47English public schools. Yeah. And I was at this more bohemian school. Yeah. Now rather mainstream, but then a little bit outre, where there were girls as well as boys. And it was all a bit more relaxed. Called some of the teachers by their first names, etc. So this, for me, was an introduction to a different sort of set. You know how I'm perceived, because of my voice now, I would be perceived as being posh. In fact, I saw myself, and I was then, totally straight middle, middle class. Not upper middle class. These girls would be upper middle class or even upper class. I was straight middle class.

30:29My father was a solicitor. My mother was a teacher. We lived in a flat. We were middle middle class. You weren't rolling in money. No, far from it. This may feature later in the diary. There were money tensions at home. I talk like this because I think my father talked like this. but our voice wasn't as strangulated say as that of the Queen or upper class people at the time. So this was a little sort of, I was being dipped into this other world and of course there were some extremely nice girls at these schools. This is just my take of it on that particular night. And were these girls going to be presented to the Queen?

31:12Yes. Was that still happening? No, I think that stopped in about 1959. I think that's when the debutante's balls. And that used to be, there used to be a thing called Queen Charlotte's Ball and there was a presentation at court where all these girls dressed in white came and literally came up and curtsied to the sovereign of the day. Because it happened at Grosvenor House, I think, sometimes. I think they did. We mentioned it once. After it ceased to happen at Buckingham Palace, they then went on with it. And it went on for years. The idea of debutantes went on for years. And, you know, there are some people who still give parties when their daughters get to 18 or 20 or 21, a coming out ball where you were brought into society.

31:53So what's interesting about this diary, I suppose, is it does give you a bit of social history. And we're talking about 1965. That's, is that 60 years ago? Exactly. They were talking about 60 years ago, a long time ago, before many of our listeners were born, when there were young men like me being, I mean, I think I acknowledged that I was a poor man, Deb's Delight. I wasn't the real thing. I didn't feel like the real thing. But I did like this girl Penny, who I'd met at one of the speech competitions that I took part in. Lots of schools, mostly independent schools, but not all independent schools, sent kids to take part in these speech competitions.

32:29To recite poetry. To recite poetry. And you won, you often won something, didn't you? And I occasionally did win. Of course. And just one more question. So you've just had your 17th birthday and you celebrated with tea at Mr. Badley's house. and were you at all interested in getting drunk or smoking or drugs or any of the wild things that I think a lot of teenagers are into at this age? Not remotely. No it's funny isn't it? We may come to I don't know if it's in the diary we may come to the episode when some boys took me into a pub near the school we were out on a run or something yeah and I wouldn't have a drink at I felt bad being in the pub.

33:09I certainly wouldn't have alcohol. Never smoked, didn't drink. I don't drink now. I drank a little bit later, but I certainly wasn't drinking at this age. Didn't drink, didn't smoke, certainly wouldn't dream of trying drugs. And it didn't tempt you at all? Because this is the 60s, Giles. This is the swinging 60s, yes. And the Beatles were there. And indeed, as you know, because I think they come up in the diary, they were near where we lived in Baker Street with their shop, their Apple shop in Baker Street. I was aware of the Beatles. I was aware of the Rolling Stones. I was aware of Carnaby Street.

33:44In fact, I think I had some clothes from Carnaby Street. I was aware of it all that went on. And I think I became more aware of it later in the 60s when I go to America. But it wasn't for me. No, my enthusiasms were, I don't know. Well, clearly, 17th century literature. Yeah. Oscar Wilde. Yeah. and the dozen girls listed in the list there and a few more beyond. And did it make you, that must have made you a bit of an outlier. Well, looking back, why did I have any friends at all? Maybe people thought I was amusing. I was busy all the time. Basically, I was busy doing my projects, running the paperback bookshop, being the business manager of the school magazine, running the cycling proficiency classes.

34:34I mean that was an amazing list of things I did think when did you have time to sleep? I didn't, sleep wasn't very interesting to me, I wanted to be doing things hence that ridiculous holiday with the younger teachers and some other people oh gosh in the countryside oh awful, awful

34:59so so I'm back in town and it's Wednesday the 28th of April 1965 Tonight I took Penny to present laughter at the Queen's Theatre. Wonderful. It's a play by Noel Gard. Nigel Patrick so stylish. Richard Briars hilarious as the lunatic young playwright. And Penny liked it too. What's interesting about this is that I got, well I've said this before endlessly, these people I'm mentioning here, ten years later, I'm finding a way to meet them and to work with them. Penny liked it too. I spared her the night of the iguana last week and the crucible tomorrow night I don't think Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller are really what she's looking for the evening began awkwardly I went for supper at their flat I did my best to entertain her very nice parents in my best Deb's Delight manner then I let slip that I proposed taking Penny to Shaftesbury Avenue by Underground as we set off her father pulled me to one side in the hallway and pressed a tensioning note into my hand.

36:02A cab, I think, for Benny, don't you? And he winked at me. Yeah, well, maybe it was the wrong thing to take a properly brought up young girl on the underground. You've moved into the class above, Giles, and they're making sure that you know the rules. Yeah, exactly. But I loved the underground. I was so happy on the underground. Oh, me too, yeah. I still am. Sunday, 9th May, 1965. The holidays ended with one of the golden theatrical experiences of my lifetime. The Franco Zeverelli, Much Ado. This was a production, Harriet, of Much Ado About Nothing at the National Theatre of the Old Vic with Maggie Smith and Robert Stevens, Albert Finney, Derek Jacoby, Ian McKellen, Frank Findlay.

36:53Playing minor roles were Lynn Redgrave, Edward Petherbridge, Ronald Pickup, Michael York. Oh. Can you imagine? Wow. Yeah. What a line-up. What a line-up. I remember his film of Romeo and Juliet. That was shown when I was at school. I loved that. Yeah. The term begins with me embarking on an ambitious theatrical enterprise of my own. Because so many people in the lower blocks have asked me to be in a junior play, I've agreed to produce something. Yesterday, I put up a notice asking people interested to sign up, and I now have over 40 names. I'm going to stage 30 Minutes in a Street, an unusual farce with 23 speaking characters.

37:36I will find roles for everyone who wants one. This afternoon, I'm going to the OB Society meeting to explain the Chronicle's financial situation. Surprisingly good as it happens, I can't really believe it. We have a balance in hand of£160. Yesterday afternoon, I went to a Labour Party meeting in Petersfield, addressed by the Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture. It was attended by more Tories than Socialists. Plenty of angry farmers. And their jags. Tomorrow evening, under the new system evolved at our religious discussion meetings last term, I am taking assembly. I haven't quite decided on my reading.

38:20I am relaunching Roundabout. Now as sole editor. And I might join the choir. And I'm just in from one of my new regular duties for Mr. Slack, taking prospective parents around the school. Today, it was an actor, Donald Sindon. Very charming, full of energy and theatrical sparkle. Oh, yes. It's all happening here. Wow. Amazing. Just amazing. Yeah. We'll come on to that later. though i should say whether as a result of my tour or not um the ascendant sons didn't actually end up going to be does oh dear no but of course i kept in touch with donald syndrome okay sunday 30th may 1965 have i written about walks before walks is what we're required to do on a sunday afternoon take a walk out of doors out of the school grounds for at least an hour and a half.

39:23I sometimes go with Barney or Adam Reeves, but usually with a couple of girls. I prefer going with the girls because we have more fun gossiping, and because I've developed a rather charming game for us to play. What happens is this. On our walk, we spot a house that looks inviting, and we see if we can get invited in. Our usual trick, my idea, is to ring the doorbell and ask whoever answers if one of the girls might be allowed to use the lavatory. The girl tries to look embarrassed, though it's something embarrassing that needs to be attended to. While the girls go after the lavatory, my job is to charm our way into the house.

40:03It doesn't always work, but today we had a very nice tea with a charming lady called Mrs. Plumbridge.

40:12Well, it's a good way to get free tea. Yeah, it was, wasn't it? Brilliant. You know, we were 16, 17. Yeah. Why not free tea? Absolutely. Turn up with a couple of girls. All 16, 17-year-olds are doing. Free teas. Some were going off, as you say, looking for pubs and drugs. Sex, drugs and rock and roll. Exactly. I was taking the girls in, say, you know, look embarrassed, say you need to go to the loo urgent. Yeah, get some free biscuits off Mrs Plumbridge. Exactly. I'm sure there was cake as well as tea with Mrs Plumbridge. How lovely. It seems like a made-up name, doesn't it, Mrs Plumbridge? Anyway.

40:47She could have been having you on as well. You never know. No, I do now realise everything. I realise everything. The reason for all of this is that I was young. We were young. Yeah, and you can get away with murder. It's lovely. Young people are lovely. Even ridiculous young people like me. I've been reading the Dennis Blakelock book, Making the Stage Your Career. Fascinating, if a little disturbing. He claims that the only way to get onto the stage is through drama school. The advantages, proper training in all the required skills, from voice production to dancing and fencing, and the fact that managers and agents are more interested in ex-drama school actors because they can rely on basic skills and knowledge.

41:29The advantages are obvious, and it does seem by far the safest route. Still, I shall consult the powers that be. I'm quite divided. The play, 30 Minutes in the Street, is progressing. Problems, time. Not enough of it. And the wretched monkey suit. This was a real monkey costume, which one of the leads, Simon Cadell, has to wear. We can't afford to hire one. So Rachel, she was the drama teacher, is writing around to her friends inquiring after one. Also, the set's a problem. Building and painting the house for the street is taking forever. But good news, I'm hoping to get a proper letterbox from the BBC.

42:11My wardrobe mistress, Sally Henry, and stage manager, Gino Henry, are persuading their BBC designer father, Zedgars, etc., to lend us one. Sally H., by the way. I think X. You're going to hear more of Sally. Mm. The wardrobe mistress. Yeah. Mm. She became my longest-lasting girlfriend at school. Saturday, the 12th of June, 1965. Last night, up late, typing up the programme and rolling it off on the Gestetner machine in the school secretary's office. This morning, Parents' Day, sports at 11.30, modest contribution to relay and I didn't drop the baton, lunch with Pa and Ma, picnic in car, sandwiches, tomato, marmite and Kraft slices, lemon barley water, chocolate mousse.

43:05This afternoon at 3pm in the Lupton Hall, 30 minutes in a street. A wonderful triumph, perhaps the happiest 30 minutes of my life. Thursday, 17th June, 1965. I am reading A Moveable Feast by Ernest Hemingway and then going to Petersfield for haircut, envelopes and stamps. I shall not be writing to the newspapers outraged by the Beatles' MBEs, awarded for services to exports and quite right too, but I am writing to the Port of London Authority. When we went on the recent school trip and were walking around the docks, I saw what appeared to be blatant racial discrimination. Public conveniences marked Asians only.

43:48Gosh. Wednesday, 30th June, 1965. Tea and Scrabble with Mr. Baddeley. He has given me a signed copy of his book, The Bible is Seen Today. It is the Bible in modern English, rearranged in historical sequence. His life's work in three volumes. I'm working on a play that's a satire of the theatre of the absurd, kitchen sink drama and the rest. There are plenty of pauses and tramp-like characters sitting in dustbins, and a sort of philosophy. Try to forget the cant and the hypocrisy, the tangerine toenails and unread encounters, and smile a little. Laugh a little. Don't think about life too much, too often, too seriously.

44:32It gets depressing. Laugh with life. Wink at it. and I'm analysing the bestial imagery in Othello, line by line, very revealing. Was Shakespeare doing it consciously, thinking I'll give these characters rats and toads and goats and monkeys to speak of or did it come instinctively as he wrote? That's an interesting question. Yeah. Thursday the 1st of July 1965. I've received this reply from the Port of London Authority. In reply to your letter of 17th June, you were quite correct in saying you have noticed special lavatory facilities for Asiatics in the docks. It is customary to provide specially designed lavatories at the berths where the ships cruise include Asiatic seamen because, mainly due to the dictates of their religion, European lavatories are unacceptable to them.

45:23The basic feature of the Asiatic lavatories is that a Baroda pan and a Lucknow squatting plate are installed at floor level. Further details of the design can be obtained from Messers, Dalton & Co Ltd, Potters, Albert Embankment, SE1. How fascinating, Giles. Well, isn't that interesting? Yes, amazing that they replied. I'm impressed that they replied. I mean, also, I'm quite impressed in a sense that I thought it was wrong and decided to write to them about it. Did you send off the details of the design from Messers, Dalton & Sons? No, I didn't. I was satisfied with their answer, that it wasn't actually racial discrimination as I had feared, but actually it was practical and trying to be helpful.

46:10Yeah. Very interesting. Well, okay, that's it, is it, for this episode? It is, the first half of 1965. First half of 1965, on we go with the diaries. If the diaries are not to your taste, then skip us every other week, because it's diaries every other week, and since we're only in 1965, there's another 60 years to go. you could be listening to this for 30 more years, I think. So don't worry. If you don't want the diaries, listen to more Rosebud every other week because we have them every other week. And then every Tuesday, every other Tuesday, we have a different kind of more Rosebud with a slightly different kind of guest.

46:47But on Friday, oh, it's going to be somebody good this week, I hope. It's somebody good every week. We've been so lucky right from the start. We've had amazing people. And funnily enough, I occasionally go right back to the beginning and relive some of the conversations we had a year or more ago. It's wonderful. Do you? Yeah. But imagine who we could have had if we'd been making this when you were at B-Dales. And I'm sure you would have had a podcast, by the way, if this were then. I think I would. Well, I began interviewing in that last episode. So you could have had John Badley? I could. A man who you ask a while?

47:21Yeah. I could have had Donald Sinden. You could have, yeah. I mean, extraordinary people that I was meeting already. Yeah. Richard Bryers? Well, I hadn't met him then. I'd just seen him on stage. Yeah. So, but I could have had interesting people and we could have met all these. Anyway, that's enough nonsense from me. So my apologies to people who are mentioned therein, who had their own lives and probably weren't even aware that I was aware of them then. And didn't ask for this. They didn't ask for this, did they? They did not ask for this. They did not ask for this. hello if you're out there any of these people oh gosh oh gosh oh gosh i half want pobs to get in touch and i half don't anyway but you do you'd like to meet her wouldn't you yeah of course you would i mean i'm regularly getting emails from people asking to see pobs are you yeah you're being serious yeah if you've got any comments i want to get in touch or indeed actually suggest any guests for Friday's Rosebud, what's our email?

48:25It's hello at rosebudpodcast.com. Hello at rosebudpodcast.com. And any court injunctions, send them to Giles. Directly. In his office, which he's commandeered. Yes, the careers room. Nobody ever went into the careers room. I was alone in there with my cups of, my mugs of tea and those sandwiches. You remember, it looked like two pieces of white bread with a slice of brown as the filling in between. Not very nutritious, Giles, by the way. U.S.

49:21Kevin Taylor

49:36That was more Rosebud with music by Phil Leppard, production by Harriet Jane, and in the chair, me, Charles Brandreth. Thank you for listening.