More Rosebud - Gyles's Diary, episode 32

0:19Welcome to Rosebud. It's the last rosebud of the year. 2025 is almost over i think i've had rather a wonderful year harriet jane what would you say is the highlight of your year i think it was having a cocktail with sir john major after our interview sir john major came to the groven house hotel to take part in rosebud i found it a very affecting episode and after it i think he suggested we have a drink didn't he yeah yeah he did and we went to the park room and he bought us all a drink we had you me and michelle had a mocktail non-alcoholic and he and his secretary had lemon drops what are lemon drops i think it's lemon and maybe gin but some sort of cocktail that he was his favourite he said and he asked the waiter at the park room do you make lemon drops and the waiter said yeah sure and in they came in these lovely little glasses and yeah we had a really lovely chat because he's a very very nice person it was very interesting actually he was totally relaxed and at ease and you and michelle sat either side of him We took those lovely pictures.

1:40And he did seem, I mean, you know, he is a former prime minister. He's led a most extraordinary life. And yet he seemed totally relaxed with you. Yes, yeah. And he really listens to you and makes you feel as if he's interested in what you've got to say, even though you're just the producer of Rosebud and he doesn't know you at all. Nobody is just the producer of Rosebud. Rosebud is Rosebud and you are Harriet Jane. What I'm saying is I think he probably makes everybody feel like that, no matter if they're the bus conductor. And that, I think, makes him a very likeable person, very warm, but maybe comes from the fact he did have that unusual start in life that was quite humble.

2:23So he's not judgmental and he's really interested in ordinary people. I do recommend, if you haven't heard the episode with John Major, Sir John Major, Knight of the Garter, Companion of Honour, former Prime Minister, former Chancellor of the Exchequer, former Foreign Secretary. Do listen on Rosebud because it's a fascinating and I think rather affecting story. Oh, it's really touching. Michelle and I are very lucky. We know many of the guests before they come on the show. And we first met John and Norma Major back in the 1990s and liked them from then. And actually, we've found ourselves staying at the same hotel on holiday, haven't we?

2:58When we've been lucky enough to be in Jamaica, they've stayed at the same hotel. a couple of times that we've been staying at and we've had supper with them there and they're just very easy just nice pleasant easy to be with people i wish everybody was like that anyway michelle michelle my wife michelle my friend uh what's been the highlight of your year 2025 um i can tell you what it is quite clearly um well as you know because we're married and we live in the same house we've always had cats or most of the time we've had cats and I know you like cats and I think I like them even more than you do and my most recent cat was a Maine coon and unfortunately she got to the point where she had to put her little paws up and die so it was a bad time for me because I'm a bit cat mad and I cried a lot fortunately we have a son-in-law who is a vet and he called and he said you won't believe this but today the day after the cat had been had died somebody came in somebody had brought in a box with a cat in a young stray cat and so we started to look after her the truth is i must tell people these cats are supposedly our cats but nala our late cat who's with us for many years who died the main coon aged about 20 she came over the garden wall and adopted michelle and she was very much your cat yes and one of the reasons i think you missed her so much is when she was elderly we had to build little stairs steps to get her up onto the bed and she'd sleep on your tummy most nights yes she did so when she died it was a real loss for you yes it was i know some people you know think a cat's what's a cat and fair enough but for those of us who love cats she was nala and you chose the name of the new cat yes yes bella and she's absolutely she's what some people call brindle or to be honestly i must she's sort of brown and ginger and black a combination and um it's been just the most wonderful thing it's really i thought i was going to be bereft and in the end i've got this wonderful new cat whom i'm sure has been sent to me by nala and i'm not the only person who said that several other friends of ours who are cat lovers all said the same thing so the highlight of harriet's year was sir john major of your year michelle it's been bella and i'd say the highlight of my year has been sir mick jagger just before christmas i was doing one of the stage shows that i've been doing for nine years now with the great dame judy dench and who is the only person, the only guest we've had twice on Rosebud.

5:51We had her when we began back in September a couple of years ago, and we had her this last September to celebrate our second birthday. So she is a friend of mine, and she's a great actress. And I think when we recorded the first Rosebud with her, she was telling stories of all the extraordinary people she's worked with. Clint Eastwood, Johnny Depp, Leonardo DiCaprio, Laurence Olivier, John Gielgud, you name it. She's worked with them all. Kenneth Branagh on the list went. And I said to her, I think it was when we were doing Rosebud, is there anyone you haven't shared a stage with that you'd like to have done?

6:26And she said, well, Mick Jagger would be quite exciting. And on her 91st birthday in early December, I thought, I wonder if I can get Mick Jagger to come along when we're doing our special Christmas show in the West End at the Sondheim Theatre. So I made contact with Mick Jagger and he said, what's the date? As you do. As you do. Well, this is Rosebud. This is Rosebud, where we seem to know a lot of very interesting and significant people. I made contact with Mick Jagger and I said, Sir Mick, it's Dame Judy's 91st birthday. She has a dream and that's to show stage with you and he simply said when's this happening what is the day what is the time I'll be there and the day of the show came and I told nobody at all apart from the producer of the show we gathered at the Sondheim theater I didn't tell Michelle I told nobody we gathered we did the show and it was fabulous because we had other distinguished guests we had the wonderful Jim Broadbent, who won an Oscar when he appeared with Judi Dench in the film Iris.

7:38We had one of our Rosebud guests, Dominic West. In fact, I'd asked him if he'd like to come along when he was here recording Rosebud. And we did the show. And at the end, at the very end of the show, to a full house, you know, 2 ,000 people in the West End, I said to Judi, do you remember a couple of years ago, you told me you'd met everybody, and I asked you, is there anybody you wish you'd shared a stage with? And you said, well, Mick Jagger. I said, well, it's Christmas, and sometimes dreams can come true. And at that point, Mick Jagger walked onto the stage. Wow. Judy, I have to say, I thought she was going to faint.

8:19The audience erupted. I have never, I've been doing shows in theatres for 60 years. I have never heard a sound like it. They did literally raise the roof. And I realise in retrospect why, because these were two international icons. People regard Dame Judi Dench as the leading British actress, you know, in the world. And they regard Mick Jagger as our leading iconic rock star. And see the pair of them on stage together. It was. Did anyone faint? No. Good. And Judi brilliantly, Mick then did, I'm calling him Mick now. Mick. Mick. The Mick. Nick then, he bowed to her. He then made this really gracious speech with a lot of detail in it.

9:08Shows that she'd done television programmes, he'd watched films, he'd seen. It was a wonderful tribute to her. At the end of which, she was... She was finding it difficult to breathe. And I said to her, I knew she knew a poem by an Elizabethan poet called Michael Drayton. And she loved this poem because her husband, her late husband, was called Michael. And it's by a Michael. and there was a Michael in the shape of, you know, Michael Mick Jagger. I said, if you can, recite this sonnet for him as a present to say thank you. And she managed to recite this sonnet. Yes, it was very moving. It was, it really was.

9:44And what a lovely man. I thought, wouldn't it have been wonderful to have a man like that in the house? And then I remembered I'd got you. So that was, Michelle's near miss was her evening with Mick Jagger. But for me, it was a magical moment. because, my goodness, the man is so cool. So to be alone on stage with Judi Dench and Mick Jagger has to be the highlight of my year. Wow. Only just ahead of being in the studio here on Park Lane with my two favourite people, Harriet and Michelle. So is it time to do some diaries? It's that and it is. Did Mick Jagger wiggle his hips at all? Naturally. Oh.

10:28He came on, interestingly, in almost a Mick Jagger pose, with his hands folded across his chest and his knees almost knock-kneed. And he came virtually dancing onto the stage. Maybe he can't walk, he can just dance. He can walk, because when we went off stage, I mean, what a lovely human being. Clearly, actually, as we came off the stage, we all took a bow together. The noise, standing ovation, come standing ovation. We went off. the drum beat the demand for us to go back was so great we all went back. People like stamping their feet. Stamping their feet, we had to go back and then Mick very sweetly left us alone on the stage she felt we should take as it had been our show the final curtain.

11:12So we then went out into the wings and there Mick and I we hunt like nobody's business so that was very special So you're the fifth Rolling Stone now Giles. Well who could say that? I'd like to think that. Do they have a triangle part in Jumping Jack Black? He's making a new album. He's just recorded maybe saying something I shouldn't say. With Giles Brandreth on Out of Time Triangle. So there's lots more to hear about Mick Jagger next year. Oh the other most exciting moment of my year and then we will read the diaries was my encounter with Priscilla Presley. As listeners can tell I'm doing a lot of scouting for potential guests for Rosebud.

11:55And they've got to be rock and roll royalty. We will not let you down next year. We promise you that. Tell friends. In fact, give friends access to the Patreon family, Rosebud family, if you want, as a New Year present. Oh, yes, it is a good present, actually. You can gift if you go on the Patreon website. That's patreon.com forward slash Rosebud, P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com forward slash Rosebud. You can gift a subscription to somebody. And then they get ad-free listening and all the extra bonuses and the murder mystery and first dibs at events. Yeah. But Rosemount, as we know it, this Tuesdays and Fridays continues free forever, doesn't it?

12:36It does, it does. So that's wonderful. But if you do want to give someone a present, it's$4.99 a month. So I think that seems like a good present to give someone. Great New Year present. Priscilla Presley. Oh, yeah. My encounter with her, quite exciting. she said to me Giles Giles I've been told that in this country you're known as the thinking woman's Elvis oh that's funny because that's what I always call you and I think she then tried to smile can't be sure to bother you oh how lovely anyway so I've had a wonderful year wow but honestly long term apart from Mick and Judy my best companions have been you two and we love it.

13:20Are we going to next year go on reading the diaries every other Tuesday? Is that the plan? You're the producer. Oh, we are, yeah. Great. I think we're going to read them up till the present day. Exactly. How long will that take us? Quite a few years. Okay. Stay tuned. What year have we got to? We've got to 1972, February 1972 and you and Michelle have just bought and moved into your first, the first flat you owned. Can you remember the address, Michelle? Yes. Clarence Gate Gardens NW1. 170 Clarence Gate Gardens NW1. 170, yes. I liked 170. It was a nice, neat, clean sort of number. And do you know, it was before there were postcodes.

13:58Isn't that amazing? So it was just NW1. That was the full address. Oh, there was no second bit. No second bit. Oh, that's cool. And I think we had a telephone number that had words in it, you know. Oh, yes. Camden 240. Was that your number? No, I just made that out. Because that's what you would have been. It's Camden, Camden 572, putting me through. I never sounded like that. No, I'm being the operator, Giles. Hello, operator. That's how people spoke. Can you do that? Actually, that's a bit how you speak, Giles. Well, I used to speak in a sort of movie-tone news style. And now, in London tonight, this is what's happening.

14:36Their telephone number at the time was Welbeck 1750. Giles and Michelle Brandreth moving into their new flat, called an apartment by Americans. it's somewhere off Baker Street. Yes, it's Claremont Scare Gardens. Michelle, is that how he spoke all the time? Not at all. I don't know where he got it from. I was doing my movie 10 news voice. I love it. There was a little touch of the American about it as well. I threw that in. Did you? Yes. Friday the 4th of February, 1972. Interesting letter from Dr. Schindler, the Viennese psychoanalyst who lived next door to us at Portman Mansions. That was my parents' flat a few years before.

15:12He has read my Nova piece and sent me his lecture on Eros and Thanatos, constructive and destructive phenomena of art in the service of escape. Plato tells us that love is a longing to belong to each other mutually, and Freud teaches that love is nostalgia, meaning a longing for home, essentially the warmth and beauty of the mother's womb. The essence of Dr. Schindler's message seems to be the properly erotic, sensual beauty, the nude in art, can offer comfort and escape, while the pornographic, harsh, crude, depersonalized, does damage. He wants to give us supper to tell us more. I like him, but his Viennese accent makes him so difficult to understand.

16:04Of course, that won't bother his patients. They do all the talking. second lunch with wilbur stark film producer he was an american film producer director writer whose credits i think it included vampire circus the love box and the stud and he was the dad the father of coo stark who became quite famous because she was a squeeze of andrew mountbatten Windsor in earlier days. Randy Andy as he was known back then. Anyway, Wilbur Stark, film producer he thinks I should be writing scripts for him. We met in a hotel opposite 25 Welbeck Street. After lunch he invited me to join him for his afternoon casting session.

16:49He's looking for girls for looking for love. They need to be versatile as they're expected to play two or three different characters in the same film. We give them wigs to disguise them. Pubic wigs. The audience isn't looking at their faces. Oh, gosh. Would you have been writing, what, you'd have been writing scripts for sort of pornos? Semi-porno films. Never mind, my dad wrote a porno. I didn't take up the offer. Saturday, 5th February 1972. Last night, Saba the Parioli. And then, A New Leaf. A wonderful film written by, directed by and starring Elaine May. utterly enchanting walter matow brilliant amusing as i find mr stark this is the kind of movie i want to make tonight we're going to see jane fonda include at the city center and before that it's a matinee at the globe david's stories play about a northern rugby club the changing room there is male nudity in the play at the early performances apparently there was anxiety on stage when the actors started to take their kit off, from out front came repeated sharp clicking sounds, as though rifles were being cocked in the circle at the back of the stalls.

18:06The stage manager was sent to investigate. It turned out the noise was the sound of binoculars hitting spectacles all around the auditorium. Noel Coward went to see the play and was bitterly disappointed. I don't need to spend three pounds fifty just to see three acorns and a chipolata did i report that michelle has passed her driving test at the first attempt oh well done michelle if i didn't i should whoa do you remember taking the driving tests yes i do i do i intended to and i did it yeah it took me three goes to pass you pass first time i don't know i don't know why i did it i managed to do can i tell you michelle you took just one course of lessons which wouldn't have been very many six or eight lessons and she passed first time it's incredible she was and is a very cool customer you got into the car you drove you did it perfectly i took so many lessons i think they were giving me free ones by the end yeah because i didn't want to take the test until i knew i could pass i did pass first time but i would have taken 30 40 or more lessons it adds up as well it does end up

19:26Wednesday the 16th of February 1972 it's Ash Wednesday and the lights are going out all over the land literally the miners pay dispute means a shortage of coal a shortage of coal means a lack of electricity today we are getting nine hours of blackout and apparently there's more and worse to come that said the trains were running so I made my way to Petswood to offer the Bromley Ladies Luncheon Club America and Russia an entertaining romp around two continents that was the talk I was giving them they appeared amused so is this the winter of discontent yes the lights going out yes this is this is really what led I think ultimately to the downfall of Edward Heath um because yeah and there was blackouts everywhere except for my mother's flat.

20:21Do you remember that, Michelle? I do remember that because they had their own specials. No, I don't think they did. The blackout was voluntarily, you were told, to turn off your lights. I don't think it was cut off at the mains. Television was turned off at a certain time, like 9 o 'clock or 10 o 'clock. I do remember that. It was very annoying. But we would, because we live near Baker Street, I remember us going along Baker Street in the dark. It was like a blackout during the war. And looking up at the block of flats where my parents were now living, a place called Chiltern Court, and we saw the sixth floor, lone lights.

20:52And we realised it was my parents. Because somehow they thought they were immune from all this sort of thing. You're correct, actually. I do remember that. They were the only people. Was anyone enforcing it, or it was just done by, they just trusted you to be a good citizen and turn your lights off? I think they trusted us to be a good citizen. There was a later winter of discontent. This may have been called something else, actually. I think you might be right. We better check that out before we use this. I can't imagine people now, if now you said it's a voluntary blackout, I think a lot of people would leave their lives on.

21:24Hold on. When COVID came around in the early days, before legislation was passed, you were just invited, you were told, but you were invited by the government to stay at home. That's true. Social distancing was introduced. You were told to do these things, but there was no law enforcing it. Legislation was introduced. I don't think legislation was introduced to enforce this. Wednesday the 8th of March 1972 24th birthday and my birthday present has to be the finished copies of my first book it looks good it feels good it smells good yes I've opened it and breathed in the smell of the pages and I've removed the dust jacket to run my fingers down the spine I'm very happy to have it and happy to have done it and only sorry that it isn't better done better written I mean better thought through and if I'm honest while I'm excited and delighted there is also a sense of anti-climax created in captivity my first book well there you are what now the day's gone well hair at crimpers at 9.45am they serve you coffee with your haircut I like that interview with the Marilyn Mercury at 11.30am this was the first of the book interviews Gordon Clough for PM next then Richard Baker for Start the Week, then Alan Hargreaves for Thames TV Today.

22:48Birthday lunch with the parents at 164 Chiltern Court. You remember my father had financial difficulties? He'd reorganised his finances by deferring his retirement until he was 70 in June 1980. And he was now renting a three-bedroom flat. They'd been living in a hotel, hadn't they? They'd been living in a hotel. He'd reorganised his finances. He'd agreed to go on working until he was 70, so he had a good income, and they were able to afford to rent a flat. They chose a three-bedroom flat, which they didn't really need a three-bedroom flat. They needed one bedroom for them and one bedroom for Ben, my younger brother, who would have been 14 then.

23:26So the extra bedroom, remember, they put all the junk in. Huey Green lives in the flat next door and lets brother Ben play with his train set. Actually, I don't believe he lets him play with it. I think he allows him to stand there admiring it. while Huey Green does the playing. Oh, gosh. Do you remember Huey Green? Yeah. He was a television host. 3pm train to Liverpool, Lime Street. I'm judging the Intervazity's debating contest, and then speaking at the dinner. I like the idea of working on my birthday. I like the idea of spending the night in the city from which my forebears set out to make their fortunes.

24:04Oh. Tuesday, the 14th of March, 1972. Michelle's 25th birthday and at 12 noon the press preview an opening of my Created in Captivity Prisoners Art Exhibition at the Foyles Gallery in Charing Cross Road this is interesting Michelle this has been the story of your life it's your birthday but you're coming to an event for the publication of my book can I apologize now I'll keep reading the diary the exhibits are striking paintings drawing sculptures i've gathered from prisons in the uk and around the world john and valerie perfumo came he was dapper and charming she was gracious and looked chic in a pale blue coat and matching helmet style hat she wears very white powdery makeup it's almost as if she had dipped her face in a bag of flour it was very good of them to come I'd asked him to open the exhibition but he said he couldn't I avoid all publicity and will until the day I die very sensible he was a John Profumo of course of the Profumo scandal yeah I'm pleased with the way the whole thing looks Foils is impossible this is a big bookshop you know on the chain cross road Foils is impossible as we know the staff are paid nothing and don't speak English the stock is vast but all over the place to buy a book involves three separate and fairly incomprehensible transactions.

25:34But this has been well organised. It comes about simply because I wrote to Christina Foyle suggesting the idea. She didn't reply. But a little man called Ben Perrick did. He took me to lunch at the Gay Hussar. He seems to dine there every day. They keep a personal bottle of sherry for him. And said, the space was mine. And so it is. Till April the 1st. Mmm, totally good. after the opening i was taken for a celebratory lunch in greek street by james hale and lynn godser from hodder james son of lionel lionel hale once upon a time harriet in your grandparents day he was a household name he was a writer and broadcaster this was his son who was my editor james son of lionel is charming and full of butts but i'm not sure what my prospects with hodder are The book is getting really good reviews in all the right places.

26:28The Times, The Telegraph, etc. But of course it isn't selling. Why would it? It's a book about prison art. I should have thought about that. Monday the 27th of March 1972. Jimmy Savile is an odd one. I spent the evening with him, recording Savile's Travels from County Hall. It was like being with the Mad Hatter. he didn't stop talking but none of it quite made sense he's weird but i think he means well the same cannot be said for sir bernard miles another oddball but after today rather less to my liking at three o 'clock this afternoon we had the read-through of the script for the sonny lumiere we are presenting at temple newsome house on behalf of leeds city council the recording is on Wednesday.

27:20Joy Macefield, who I pretend is some sort of cousin of the late poet laureate, though she isn't, has written the script and it's rather good. The narrator is a working man who sees the story unfold across a thousand years. He's peasant, farmhand, foot soldier, builder, but eventually ends up as janitor in the Temple Newsome house of today. The people in Leeds were very anxious that we have a theatrical night in our cast. They wanted a name and a title. Given the yokel nature of our narrator, I thought Sir Bernard Miles was the perfect choice. I called his agent, I booked him, I sent him the script, and today he turned up for the read-through.

28:03He was late and inscrutable. He arrived in a shabby fawn raincoat, wearing a hat and thick glasses. I greeted him effusively. He said not a word. Michelle made him tea. He took his place in the drawing room, joining the circle of other actors waiting to start. He didn't greet them. When people said hello, he barely grunted. He sat slumped in his seat, still in his raincoat. By now, it was 3.30. I said, shall we begin? At this point, Sir Bernard leant down towards his briefcase and pulled a large envelope from it. It was the script, apparently unopened. He peered at it. Is this it? he muttered.

28:49He flicked through the pages. You speak first, Sir Bernard, I said a little too brightly. Do I? he growled. He turned to the opening page and pulled the script right up to his eyes. In a voice that was barely audible, he mumbled the words on the page. The other poor actors had no idea what to do. Peter Clay and Peter Howell, bless them, played it for all it was worth. But the stronger they were, the quieter Sir Bernard became. We struggled on for half an hour or more, and then suddenly he lowered his script and looked at me. We need to speak, he grunted. The rest of the company broke for tea, and Joy and I led Sir Bernard down the corridor to the study.

29:34At last, the man was galvanized. I wanted to do this, he announced, but I shouldn't have. The script's no good. Poor bird-like joy blanched and began to twitter nervously. It could be good, but have I got time to work on it? The man is a real man, a man of the soil, a man of the earth. He's seen war, he's known death. I could rewrite this, but have I got the time? And of course, I'd need a fee. He looked around the study and sniffed the air. I'd better be going. He waved the script under our noses contemptuously. There's no point you going on with this. You'll have to change the recording date.

30:14You've got to get this right. I can work on it. I can't do it as it stands. And that was that. He made no excuses. He simply left without saying goodbye to anyone. Through the window, we saw his feet trudging by. He gave me his number, 248-3129. I'm going to call him first thing. We can't have him rewriting the script. He's a walking nightmare. Later. All sorted. I spoke with Sir Bernard, who told me he was already working away at the script and would have it ship-shape in a week. I told him that sadly we would have to proceed without him he told me I was a fool nevertheless I said he put the phone down and here is the news I have reshovelled the cast Christopher Hancock is now the narrator but Leeds City Council will not be disappointed we have a name Cyril Fletcher is playing the Prince Regent we have a knight Sir Michael Redgrave lovely man will make a cameo appearance as Lord Darnley.

31:24Up yours, Sir Bernard. Oh, well done, Giles. Yeah. So you started this episode booking Sir Mick Jagger. Yeah. And here you are in 1972 booking Sir Michael Wiggrave. Sir Michael Wiggrave. Sir Michael Wiggrave. And firing Sir Bernard Miles. Well done. Yeah. I mean, he sounds like trouble, Sir Bernard Miles. He was trouble. Gosh, I've been doing this sort of thing for a long time. 1972 to now. Is that 53 years? Yes. I've been in this game. You've been booking the big names of the day. So Michael Regrave was a huge star because he was a movie star as well as a serious class collector. And he was very sweet to us given how young he was.

32:01He's a very nice man. Yeah, yeah. And you met, is this the first time you met Sir Jimmy Savile in this? Oh yes, I don't think he was Sir Jimmy Savile at that stage. He was a radio DJ. He was already famous for his charity work. He did this radio show called Savile's Travels on which there were guests like me. and clearly I thought he was weird but I had no idea of how horribly weird he turned out to be. That was the funny thing about him is I think everyone thought he was weird. Even if you watched him on TV, you kind of thought he was weird but you couldn't quite put your finger on it. Couldn't quite work it out.

32:36And as I think we'll discover, I spend more time with him as time goes by. I get to know him. And in fact, it may be that almost the last time he appeared on television in the UK. It was in a show that I was hosting about 20 years ago. Anyway, we'll get there eventually. Tuesday 9th of May, 1972. Rogation Day, according to my diary. What is Rogation Day? I asked myself, do you know? Rogation Day, one of three special days for fasting and prayer leading up to Ascension Day. Oh, jolly good. I didn't know that then. In May. I must remember to do that next year. Well, it's in relation to Ascension Day, so it all depends on the date of Easter.

33:21The Paris long weekend has gone well. Oh, look, we went to Paris. Anthony Palliser's exhibition was wonderful. Oh, this is our friend, who's still our friend, who we saw in Paris 53 years later. Well, about two weeks ago. Yeah, quite recently we saw him when we were in Paris. He was a contemporary of Michel's and mine at Oxford, Paris-based artist, son of Sir Michael Palliser, diplomat and grandson of Paul Ollie Spark, Prime Minister of Belgium one of the founders of modern Europe anyway, a real artist and a good friend and a great storyteller he gave a touching account, this is our friend Anthony, of his father being in attendance when Sir Winston Churchill went to have lunch with Somerset Maugham in the south of France the two giants met and sat face to face across the luncheon table rattling the spoons in their dishes, both completely gaga oh dear it's rather sad isn't it last night we went to the crazy horse saloon and the lido or was it lido in search of glamour and excitement and left before ordering the ludicrously priced champagne it was awkward to leave but i'm glad we did the shows had a certain soulless style and feathers galore but no feeling no fun no joie de vivre we compared them to our last major theatrical treat.

34:41Donald Sindon in London Assurance. It's the toast of the town because he is outrageous, hilarious, over the top, but somehow completely human, completely real. Our other bit of Paris culture, Tout va bien. The new Jean-Luc Godard film with Jane Fonda. Complete tosh. Thursday, the 25th of May, 1972. At the Hodder Authors Gathering at 11 in the morning, I stood in a corner of the room drinking champagne with Robin Maugham. Oh, Robin Maugham, second Viscount Maugham, author, best known for his first novel, The Servant. And he was the son of the celebrated lawyer Frederick Maugham, and he was the nephew of Somerset Maugham.

35:27I liked him at once, and he liked me. He was flattering and flirtatious and louche in an appropriately literary way. he spoke about his uncle Somerset Maugham the monster and talked very freely about the goings-on among the boys and masters at his prep school he talked deliberately about naked bodies and rough hands on pale skin not I think to shock me but possibly to test the ground he says he wants to escape from the shadows from the shadow of his father the former Lord Chancellor from the shadow of shame that being homosexual still involves, but I rather think he enjoys the feeling of still living his life in a sort of twilight zone.

36:16He told me he'd just turned 56, but he seemed older. His hands shook. He has a drinker's face. I was pleased to meet him. I felt I was being dipped into a more dangerous and exciting world.

36:37Friday, 16th June, 1972. Leeds, the Griffin Hotel. Note to self, stay somewhere else next time. Anywhere else. The East blows cold. The Archway production, Sonny Lumiere at Temple Newsome House, open tonight. The truth is, it's a bit of a disaster. The one thing we got right is the title. It's blowing frigging cold up here. The building is dull, the lighting is unadventurous, the script is plodding. The performances are fine, but we can't hear them. It isn't just the wind. We have a corrugated iron roof over the seating, and the rumble of the rain makes it impossible to hear the soundtrack. However high, Colin, and that was our inventor and entrepreneur, the founder of the company with me and Joy Macefield, ratchets up the volume.

37:32The show runs until 16th September. It's only 16th June. But in Leeds in August, you can expect ferocious weather. We can look forward to the regular clatter of hailstones on the roof, apparently. The parents have driven up to see the show. Bless them. We're all going back together tomorrow. Joy seems to think it's fine. It's adequate, I suppose. But I'm disappointed. Oh, dear. Well, I did tell you that Sone Lumiere were not a good idea, Giles. Well, you're in the presence of Michelle and me, Joy Macefield, Colin Sanders, killing it. Ably abetted by Cyril Fletcher and Sir Michael Regrave. And a distinguished cast.

38:15It gets worse. Because the following year we do another Sone Lumiere. You haven't heard the last of this. Oh, dear. It was a disappointment. Michelle, what's the greatest disappointment of your life been? or maybe we should end the year on a disappointing note but does anything spring to mind i think i've never expected things to be perfect and so i don't worry too much about disappointments hope for the best expect the worst how interesting i think funnily enough that is your philosophy people sometimes say to me what's the secret of a long marriage and i say to them marry somebody with very low expectations.

39:01Biggest disappointment of your life to date? I won a fancy dress competition when I was about four or five and I was too shy to go and pick up the prize in the bandstand at Dartmouth. And so I just stood there and they announced it and I refused to go up and I never got whatever the prize was. And I've always thought, oh, that could have been a big moment for me and I could have won something good and I never got it. And that was the beginning of a life full of disappointment. No, but I do think about that moment quite a lot. I've suddenly thought of a disappointment I had when I was cast aged 11 in this good production of As You Like It, playing the part of Celia, which is the cousin of Rosalind.

40:00Rosalind is the main part. Celia is the lesser part. And a boy called Bremner... Did he get the part? He got the part. Have you ever recovered from that jazz? Yes, I recovered quite quickly. Maybe I showed the disappointment so keenly that within a week or two, they'd swapped the roles. And Bremner, who was playing Rosalind, was demoted to Celia. yes because i thought you played rosalind promoted for playing rosalind i've only just remembered that i assumed i was rosalind from the first i now isn't that interesting i'd blanked out that disappointment i think i'm quite good at doing that yeah if you're listening to this and you've had disappointments this year wipe them wipe them yes that's what giles does yes wipe them forget about it be like one of our last guests this year jimmy carr who says i see the donut not the whole good next year be more donut yes be less whole yeah but be rosebud because we'll be there every tuesday every friday throughout 2026 and if you need extra stuff or want to be ad free you simply go to patreon.com forward slash rosebud and follow the instructions you can become a subscriber a member of the family a member of the family go to our website rosebudpodcast.co.uk where you'll find a list of all the previous episodes not just the famous people we've talked to but also the dowry episodes and some of the specials we've done and you'll find, well, a page of pictures of us the Rosebud family and even some of the recipes so you can even make yourself a Rosebud cupcake treat yourself to, what have you got, a lemon drop?

41:41ooh, a lemon drop cocktail, yeah do you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to send an email saying to John and Norma Merry Christmas. Can you send us the recipe, the perfect recipe for the ultimate lemon drop cocktail and we'll share it at the beginning of next year with everybody. Great idea. Let's drink to that. Let's drink to Rosebud. Most particularly, let's drink to you, our listeners. Thank you for your company this year. Without you, there would be no Rosebud, but you're all there and growing in number. Keep spreading the word. We promise you next year it's going to be the best yet. Rosebud Giles that sounds a bit menacing when you start whispering to people like that Rosebud I'm going to do it just ignore ignore Giles because it's actually a bit menacing I'm hoping next year we're going to have Simon Callow as a guest because Simon Callow is starting the fourth volume of his biography of Orson Welles it's from Orson Welles that we get rosebud and he's going to tell us all about the origins of rosebud great and he's going to introduce us to one of orson wells's children who is going to be on rosebud so yeah you'll want to stay tuned rosebud you say it happily thanks for listening to rosebud in 2025 we really appreciate it and michelle yes well it's always a joy to listen to rosebud and so i'm looking forward to more of it more rosebud in 2026 thanks for your company this year happy new year cue the music cue the music cue the music

43:44Thank you.

44:17That was more Rosebud with me, Giles Brandreth, and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. The show is produced by Harriet Jane for Plain Jane Productions. And, oh, this week we had a treat. Michelle Brandreth dropped in. She calls herself Michelle Brandreth on good days. On other days, she calls herself Michelle Brown. That's her maiden name. Whether she reverts to that or sticks with Michelle Brandreth, we don't know. the relate meetings are ongoing we'll keep you posted