More Rosebud - Gyles's diary, episode 38

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1:16Marvelous, original, remarkable, energizing, M-O-R-E, more Rosebud. We're ready for you. Yes, that's me, Giles Bradworth, and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane.

1:50Welcome to More Rosebud. If you're listening to this first time around, you're listening to it on a Tuesday, because that's the day it drops. I'm Giles Brandreth and this is a Tuesday where we're going to be sharing pages from my diary with you. I don't do it alone on a Tuesday. I am with my friend, colleague, companion, muse, inspirer, giver to me of zest. Because that's the quality that she most embodies. It's my zesty bestie. It's Harriet Jane. Oh, I love being your zesty bestie, Giles. I love you and I love the fact that we have decided to take a very big leap in our lives because we are going to do a show together.

2:36Yes, we are, aren't we? This is, well, this is very exciting. My whole life changed when I lost my seat as a member of parliament. You will recall back in 1997, I was an MP and then there was a general election. There was a landslide victory for Tony Blair and New Labour. I was swept out and I didn't know what to do at a bit of a low. And I thought I'd reinvent myself. In fact, my wife said to me, what do you most want to do? Do what you most want to do. Oh, that's very good. Now, that's something you should suggest to your partner, Leon. I don't know what age he is, but whatever age he is. Halfway through your life, you should say, do what you most want to do, what you most want to do.

3:26Do it now. So Michelle said to me, it's an interesting idea, isn't it? Wow, that's amazing. I mean, it can be quite hard to know what you most want. I think a lot of people would struggle to identify that. Well, you must ask Leon. Say, what do you most want to do? And report back, actually. And maybe people listening, ask your partner. what he or she most, or they, most want to do. What if it's just lying in bed watching daytime television? Well, then give that a go. Okay. Give that a go. Wow. Do what you most want to do. What did I most want to do? Not lying in bed watching TV. I most wanted to play Henry Higgins in My Fair Lady.

4:03Oh, really? And it was... Oh, that's brilliant, Giles. And so Michelle said, well, get on with it. So I began to make inquiries. She's a good wife. And it turned out that who was it was doing it at the National Theatre? Oh, right. Who was going to be in it? Ralph Fiennes or somebody, I can't remember who it was, was doing it. So everyone said, no, the rights aren't available. It's being done at the National Theatre. You can't do that. So I thought one of the other things I wanted to do, I thought I wouldn't mind doing, oh, if I were a rich man, I'd do that. Oh. I'd do that. Topol. Topol. I'd be Topol.

4:35And then I thought, actually, do you remember? That's cultural appropriation. I'm not sure you can do that, Giles. Worse than that, I then thought I'd seen Ginger Rogers in Mame. Oh, yeah. We covered that in the diaries a few weeks ago. I thought I'd like to do Mame. And then I had this brilliant idea. I will do all the musicals. Oh, that's when that came about. Yes. And somebody said I had this idea, but I just lost in the general election, and I was a Conservative MP, and, you know, there were people wearing T-shirts saying I've never slept with a Tory. So somebody said to me, go to Scotland.

5:07go to the Edinburgh Festival Fringe. They don't know what Conservatives are in Scotland. Also, you'll find they're very generous people. Right. So I took this show, which was then called Zip. It had been called Zippity-Doo-Dah. Zip, 100 musicals in 100 minutes, all your money back. We took it to the Edinburgh Fringe. And it changed my life. It changed, I mean, I mean this, it changed my life. Well, A, people loved it. we won awards most popular show on the fringe etc fabulous five star reviews we sold out on all of that people queued around the block to come I've told you about Ian McKellen coming haven't I have I told you about Ian McKellen coming Sir Ian McKellen came I saw him in the line waiting to get tickets returns so we had a cup of tea after the show and in it I did a bit from the Rocky Horror Show were you wearing suspenders and all of that fishnet tights we were having tea Ian McKellen said to me Giles can I ask you are you still wearing under your jeans are you still wearing your fishnet knockings and suspenders I said since you ask Ian I am how did you guess he said because I'm still wearing mine that's brilliant anyway the long or the short of it was that that began my love affair with the Edinburgh Festival Fringe and you and I last year did a charity show to raise money for Great Ormond Street Hospital, where we celebrated Winnie the Pooh.

6:37And we did, you and me, Joanna Lumley happened to be in it, Jim Broadman happened to be in it. We did it in a large West End theatre, a thousand people, the Garrick Theatre. We sold out. You came on and you sang a song. Little boy. Kneels at the foot of the bed. It was sensational. You brought the house down. You then took part in the onstage chat and banter. and afterwards the producer said to me, gosh, she's good. And Stefan Bednacek, who was our musical director, he said, and it was, I think, this week appearing at the German Street Theatre in London, if you happen to be there, but I think it's almost sold out.

7:15I'm going on Thursday night this week with Sigourney Weaver. If you've got names to drop, drop them now. Former Rosebud guest. He said, gosh, she's good. So what we're doing, you and I, is a show called Up Memory Lane. this August all of August on the Edinburgh fringe it's me doing my usual stuff but it's got an added twist of Rosebud and Harriet Jane we're working on the show now we'll tell you more as the months go by but people can book from now on in I think the booking opened on the 1st of April yeah book book tickets we'd love to see loads of Rosebud listeners there wouldn't we we would love to and we're going to do something special i think for rosebud listeners in the show we're still working on all of that so it's going to be a distinct rosebud flavor to it's all about memory yeah memory in every way and there will be some songs um led by harriet jane but i may be joining in there may be a bit of moving i may be throwing a few shapes so giles when you did zip were you singing what's your singing like that's what i want to know that's what you will discover yeah Our musical director is going to be Stefan Bednacek, who has, you know, performed, played for and sung with the greats.

8:35And he will, and actually he has directed me in musicals before. I did a musical version of The Importance of Being Earnest. Oh, yeah, and you had songs in that. And he was the MD for that. I've been in musicals. The show Zip came into the West End. Wow. So, you know. And were you doing some big numbers? Just you? You should have seen me as Dorothy. I've heard. The show ended with me coming on as Dorothy. It was very interesting being in the wings, dressed as Dorothy, seeing myself in the mirror. I'd rather like to look around. Who's that attractive? Yes, I did. I thought that. Actually, I did.

9:10I rather enjoyed the shapeliness of myself. I never wore the costume off the stage, only on the stage, but I did sing somewhat over the rainbow, etc. So I have sung on stage. I'm not in your league, but we will have fun. and the idea of the show, it's only a 60-minute show, just to 60 minutes. It's me with you, some songs, and exploring memory. I may even let you ask me the question, Giles, what is your very first memory? Wow. And you know on our Patreon version, which is where people pay a bit extra and we do a Sunday show, we have a thing called Family Secrets. If people want to take part in that, it's quite easy.

9:52you just go to patreon.com forward slash rosebud patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com forward slash rosebud and you can sign up it's sort of five or a month or something like that um we did a family secrets thing which when you and i were doing a presentation together somewhere because we're having fun doing things in public together um we played a family secrets game we got people we'd never met before to share their family secrets and it was very riveting wasn't it it was fascinating and It's so funny. And so we might get members of the audience to come along and share their family secrets. So that's going to be at the Edinburgh Fringe.

10:30So fine, if you're interested, we'll give you all the proper details as the weeks go by. But if you want to get an early bird ticket, I think you can do that now. You simply look up Edinburgh Fringe, Charles Brandreth, Harriet Jane, Rosebud, well, up Memory Lane, Charles Brandreth, up Memory Lane. And can they stay in your room? Have you got a room? You're going to have a room booked in Edinburgh that they could sleep in? They need to get accommodation, don't they? That would be a family secret, wouldn't it? Yeah, you're right. Some people, for example, my granddaughter, who's a student at St Andrews University, she's coming over from St Andrews.

11:05Oh, that's good. So some people stay in Glasgow, because it's quite expensive in Edinburgh during August. Yeah, stay in Glasgow. Has your flat been organised? Hopefully, yeah. I have got, and I'll be revealing all that. You know we have Rosebud Studio, where we are today, Park Lane, London. the um groven house we're going to have an arrangement to have our own studio up there where i will be living so rosebud will be continuing yeah and there'll be live rosebud great and people i think we've got to find a system where people can meet us after the show yeah so if you are a rosebud enthusiast you'd like to say hello we can what's the first time you appeared on the stage sang in public performed in public harriet oh it's the school nativity play.

11:48I was the angel. I think I was the angel two years in a row or one of the angels. I looked the part, I think, because I had golden hair. I mean, I really looked quite angelic. You did? Yeah. And I enjoyed that. Did you feel no career development? Same part, two years running? I know. I just, I was typecast. You weren't upgraded to the Archangel Gabriel? No, I wish. I had a crush on the Archangel Gabriel. It was a boy. Yeah. And I really liked him. I remember that. I mean, I was four or five. I remember thinking he was the bee's knees. Yeah. Isn't desire a funny thing? Yeah. It's the most bizarre thing.

12:33I realise, and this is not perhaps the time to talk about it, maybe on Family Secrets, is that it's driven me a lot of my life. I mean I had a number of obsessions before the age of eight I mean it's ridiculous but I look back to what I was like in primary school I was obsessed with this boy because he once walked past me sitting in my chair you know the little chairs you sit on he walked past and as he walked past me he tickled my ribs like that and that was it I liked this boy after that for about two years Kieran McLennan he's called if he's listening get in touch and come on down because I'd like you to show me how to tickle her lips I once tried it and she virtually hit me across the face no I don't like being tickled but it really worked if you're called Kieran it worked exactly right and then about 12 years let's say I was 8 when that happened about yeah, 10 years later I was on the waltzes at the fair in Dartmouth which is my favourite ride.

13:49I mean I act, I love the waltzes. Are they like huge flying huge saucers? No, no it's a car that you sit in, it's both going round in a big circle and it's also spinning and the people come and they spin the thing round and that's really fun. Oh yeah. And you're screaming and Anyway, I'm on this ride. The car is being spun by a guy, a carny, you know, people that work at the fair, who are a bit rough and ready. And I turn around, it's bloody Kieran McLennan. He's not the carny. He is. No. Yes. Oh. But I didn't. Did you register? Did you have a moment? I had a moment, but I didn't. I was on the ride and I didn't say, oh, I know from primary school.

14:35And how old were you by this time? I don't know, 18, 19, something like that. Everything could have been different. I know. I think he's now a plumber or a plasterer or something. Useful. It's not a bad career. As well as a sex god. I know. I mean, I really need to maybe go and look him up. Listeners, if you know a plumber called Kieran, who's a dab hand, see if he tickles you. Yeah. If he just tickled your fancy, we want to hear from him. We'd love to meet him. That would be fantastic. Anyway, that was a bit of a tangent. That's what happens when you do a show at the Edinburgh Fringe. After the show, we will meet people.

15:11We'll do something afterwards. We maybe have, you know, I don't know, cups of tea that we can give away to people or, you know, tea cakes. We'll meet people and you will find people from your past to come along. Oh, gosh. And rekindle the magic. I don't know if I can cope with that. What's interesting, I'm so pleased you remember, Kieran, because I have for years been trying to remember who it was I was lusting after. aged about eight or nine. Oh, the one you're walking past her flat? You remember the story. I can't believe you, I can't forget any of these, the people that I lusted after. Well, I'm pushing, I suppose I must be 10 or 11.

15:49You're pushing your brother in this position. Because he is 10 years younger than me. So he's a baby. So let's say I'm 11 or maybe even 12. And I'm going up and down the same street, up and down in the hope that she will emerge. But I'm, I mean, I'm crazy like that. I have been in my time, I've told you, didn't I, of when I used to go to Liverpool Street Station. Total madness. Well, I was remembering the other day when I had a big crush on someone at secondary school. A big, that was a big crush. I knew his timetable exactly so that I would know exactly when we would pass. You know, it was a big school and there was a bridge you had to walk over and I knew exactly, you know, between periods three and four on Thursday, he's going to French, I'm going to drama, we have to cross and I would just live these moments of just seeing him walking past.

16:41I mean, it's a kind of madness. It is a madness. And what's frustrating about our diaries now, because we're going to read diaries in a moment, aren't we, is I'm now married. Yeah, so we don't have a lot of that. And so we had all of that when I was a teenager and a child and I'm now married. And I think, I mean, marriage is marvelous. Listeners, marriage is marvelous. But I remember reading a book that explained that there is the high excitement of romance. And then there's marriage that is known as stir. I'm putting on the American accent because it's an American book. Stirring the pot. Stirring the pot?

17:17Basically, you're at the stove. You've got the pot. It's not quite as exciting as it was when you were making it all. Yay, throw this in, throw that in. Let's have a bit of rumpy pumping in the kitchen. You're now actually at the, and this apparently goes on forever. Stirring the pot. I love that. I know people in the early days of the diaries were really enjoying my complicated love life. They were. And now we've reached the stirring of the pot years. So there's less of the obsessions and more of the stirring the pot. So for people whose lives, when you're listening to this thing, oh yes, I'm stirring the pot in my marriage.

17:58It's a very comforting thing. So the point is that as well as having ecstasy, the ideal, of course, is to have moments of ecstasy and then the calm of stirring the pot. Well, if you've managed it out there, if you've managed it, do write in and tell us how you can actually keep all the excitement, the obsession of the crush and the so I didn't explain to people about liverpool street I just said liverpool street as though some code um I told Harriet that I I had a crush once and I had to go to liverpool street because I knew the trains I thought I knew the trains she was going to come into London on she never did and after about two weeks of going every day to liverpool street and waiting there from the morning rush hour in to the evening rush hour out I realized I had to earn a living so that was that but the point is if you have had experience listeners of combining the excitement of the crush with the mellow satisfaction of stirring the pot.

18:59Do share those with us because, yeah, clearly Michelle is not with us for this episode. Michelle, my wife of 53 years, is often with us. But she's decided she's had enough of my diaries for a while so she's taken leave of absence so she's you and me today oh that's good but listeners but we look forward to seeing michelle soon because she's brilliant when she's people love having her on the podcast which is great yeah who have we heard from we've heard from kate tiffany a great name yeah hello giles and harriet kate says i was listening this morning as you harriet gave cards and gifts to giles and michelle for their birthdays lovely i was born on Easter Day in 1954, April the 11th.

19:46But did you know that that particular day has since been recorded the most boring day of the 20th century? Oh, it's brilliant. The most boring day of the 20th century. Brilliant. Apparently, a computer program analysed over 300 million facts to decide this. Obviously, nothing of interest happened on that day. So, on behalf of all April the 11th, 1954 babies, may I suggest we celebrate the day with our own names. So for me, April the 11th will be Catherine Louise Tiffany Day. Perhaps we should start a club, have t-shirts printed, create cards. We could come up with the most boring meal for the day and all wear beige.

20:29Or maybe we should go the opposite way and do everything we can to make it as exciting and interesting as possible. incidentally when I was 50 my birthday was on Easter day again I was on holiday in Malta and watched the feast of the resurrection parade in Naxar there was a band church bells ringing and even fireworks in broad daylight about as far from boring as it's possible to get many happy returns to G and M for your birthdays nothing boring about you two Harriet and the World of Rosebud. That's lovely. Much love, Kate Digny. We're sending much love back. April the 11th is in a few days' time.

21:12It is. Shall we pick our most boring guest? I don't think actually we've ever had a boring guest. I don't think we have. But we do keep a bank of guests, don't we? We've got a little secret supply. We do. Have we got someone in there that you think is a bit boring? No, we don't. Actually, nobody is ever boring. The Queen of Denmark said this to me once. You know, we like a little bit of a name drop. I went to interview her. And the night before interviewing her, I arrived in Copenhagen. Is that where she would live? Yes. And I thought the night before, I'll go and recce the palace. And I got to where the palace is in a square in the middle of Copenhagen.

21:51And there were soldiers there. They looked like British soldiers, except I think, I got this right, the Busbys were green not black anyway they were very I was I'm really struck by how young they were I looked about 16 or 17 marching up and down and there was a light at the window of the palace anyway I went back to my hotel stayed at the night got up and arrived in good time the next morning and was interviewing the Queen of Denmark she'd never given a personal interview before but she read she speaks English and she read the Sunday Telegraph which was the newspaper I used to write for and liked my interviews so had agreed to do this interview and we had a fascinating conversation which i will share with you another day but one thing i do remember is i asked her what did you ever learn from your parents and she said i learned one thing from my father my father who was king of denmark said to me you're going to be the queen of denmark and you will meet different people every day of your life and eventually you couldn't find it boring you could find it boring meeting person after person after person.

22:56It must be awful. Remember that every person in the world has at least one good story, at least one secret. Make it your job never to sit back, always to sit forward and get out of them their one good story, their one secret. So she said, I've been Queen of Denmark a long time. She was the second longest reigning monarch in Europe after Elizabeth II. She said, every day is an excitement for me because I think, oh, what am I going to discover today? Wow. So isn't that a nice idea? Gosh. Everyone has got a story. Yeah. Even if it's the fact that you were born on the 11th of April, 1954, the most boring day in the history of the world.

23:40So 11th of April, people, we're going to find out who else was born on the 11th of April and share that with you. Yeah. And meanwhile, should we read some of my diaries? We should, yeah. Because we may even get to the 11th of April. We may. Actually, I think it's coming up, isn't it? It is because we're in March. We're in March 1974 and you will remember that I'm now trying to set up a theatre festival. Yes. I'm in my early 20s. I've done journalism, I've done television, I've done radio. Theatre seems to be a great love and I've been given the opportunity to set up a major theatre festival at the Oxford Playhouse in Oxford.

24:16I don't have any money but I've written to a lot of interesting people saying, would you please be in my theatre season? Yeah.

24:52after-dinner treat. Speaking of brunch, check out their deviled eggs, cold-pressed juices, and more. Spring is in bloom now at Whole Foods Market. It's Friday the 22nd of March, 1974, and the diary entry begins, Princess Anne has escaped being kidnapped in the mall, and I may have escaped the humiliation of having a theatre festival, but no money with which to put it on. Do you remember that incident when Princess Anne was almost kidnapped by somebody in the mall. And she fought them off brilliantly. Did she? I think she and a driver, I think they got a sort of medal for, you know, fighting off this.

25:34She's a tough cookie. She's a tough, impressive cookie. Is she big? No, she's quite slight, isn't she? She's not particularly big. But she's a formidable figure. Oh, absolutely. Never mind Princess Anne. We're back to me, please. Back to me. and it seems I've got money to put the festival on. Laurie Evans, agent to all the greats, Olivier, Gielgud, Richardson, etc., telephoned to say, Who are you? It seems everyone wants Celia Johnson to appear in a play, but the only person she has said yes to is me. Ray Cooney, playwright, producer, wants to invest in her next play. Will I go and see Ray Cooney?

26:17I went this morning he has cramped offices high up in a block of flats next to the Garrick Theatre on the Chilling Cross Road the very theatre we appeared in last year oh how funny and this is 1974 yes and I'm there 50 years ago before you were born I was there oh Harriet he is small and slight and amusing sprite-like famous of course for his farces but now I love a farce I love a farce so fun my recommendation you went to a play by Noel Card which was almost a fast wasn't it? So fun. Fallen Angels. Yeah, anyway. But now a West End producer with aspirations to go legit. He would love to present Miss Johnson and Ian Carmichael in the West End and likes the idea of staging Bernard Shaw's St.

27:02Joan with Rita Tushingham. I will produce the plays in Oxford. He will take them into town. We will share the proceeds. We have a way to go yet but this could be the answer to my prayers. So I've got these distinguished people agreeing to be in plays, had no money to pay them. So this man wants to take them to town. Yay! Yes. Wednesday, the 3rd of April, 1974. The Sting has won seven Oscars. I loved it. I'm not surprised. Do you remember the film, The Sting? Yeah, brilliant film. Glenda Jackson gets an Oscar too for a touch of class. Georges Pompidou has died. Do you know who he was? Well, I know the Pompidou Centre.

27:42He was the president of France. Yes. The centre named after him. It's all happening. This morning, I went to Ray Cooney's office and met his men of business. John Leslie, a rough diamond with a drinker's face, and Noel Davis, a camp actor with a beard, a mince, and a very funny line in stories. Over lunch in the coffee place near the office, when I said how happy I was that Ray Cooney is funding the festival, Noel Davis, I have to tell you, Harriet, was one of the funniest but sometimes the rudest people in the world. He then said, wait for it, You know the two greatest lies in the world, don't you?

28:19I won't come in your mouth and the check is in the post. The idea is that Noel is to be Ray's man on the festival team, working alongside me and reporting back to Ray via John Leslie. Friday the 5th of April, 1974. Ray Cooney has just signed. The deal is done. And now, Celia Johnson is going wobbly. Oh, no. Having said no, then yes to Daphne Lariola. She's now said no again. She telephoned yesterday. Celia Fleming here. She seemed to be calling from the garden. I could hear birds in the background. I pictured her with a chug over her arm and the gardening gloves and the secateurs in the hand that wasn't holding the phone.

29:02I'm frightfully sorry, Mr. Brandreth, but I don't think it'll do. My mouth was already dry. What won't do? The play. It really won't do. I read it again last night. It's so dated. I'm sure Edith was marvellous, but Edith's Edith. It just won't do. But I am sorry. A lawnmower had started up. I could barely hear her. The trouble is no one's writing my kind of play anymore. Why can't people write like Noel and Terry nowadays? Willie's the only one who comes anywhere near. I'm so very sorry. Do read the play again. I'm sure you'll agree. She hung up. at once I telephoned William Douglas Hume he has a bottom drawer stuffed with plays he said because that must have been the Willie that she was thinking of at first funny enough I think I thought it was Willie Somerset Moore but I realized he was dead so I worked out it was going to be Willie was Willie Douglas Hume I phoned him he apparently told me he had a bottom drawer stuffed with plays he said he's got just the thing for Celia it's called in the red about the travails of a bank manager and his stockbroker belt wife.

30:12I asked him to send it to her at Merrimoles directly. Merrimoles was the name of our house. Very clever. Tuesday the 9th of April 1974. Celia Johnson loves in the red. Wow. I've written to John Clements asking him to play the bank manager. You're brilliant at problem solving Giles aren't you? You never just think oh I'll give up then you just come up with something i try i've noticed that very good job more encouraging news sir ralph richardson is interested in the possibility of joining our season patrick garland has found a play for him a new play a very strange play dear boy very curious it's about a missionary sir ralph and all the other characters are animals sir ralph thinks anna massey would make a very clever giraffe.

31:02Hey ho cocky. Ray Cooney loves the idea of presenting Celia and Sir Ralph. On we go. This is mad, child. It is mad. I'm glad you put your Ralph Richardson impression in there. I was looking forward to that. Can we do my Ralph Richardson impression when we're in Edinburgh? I mean, there's always place for the Ralph Richardson impression. Well, we're going to do some improvised moments. Are we? I think. And when you can choose at random to keep me on my toes, you can say to me, give us your Ralph Richardson impression. Okay, yeah. Or your JoJo Seawild impression to make it more contemporary. Throw me now and again.

31:38And I'll ask you to do things, unexpected things, like the minute-long plank, which you promised me the other day. I should explain this to viewers, listeners. Harriet promised to do a plank and got so exhausted showing off her very impressive push-ups that we forgot the plank. Yeah, we need to try that. I think I can do 90 seconds. Can you? I don't know. I mean, that's what I'm thinking, yeah. It's quite a big theatre in Edinburgh. There'll be hundreds of people. Can we get them all to do the plank at the same time with us? I'm not sure watching me do a plank for 90 seconds is going to keep them entertained.

32:13They'll all be doing the plank simultaneously. Okay, on we go. Thursday the 18th of April, 1974. Up to Moat Lodge, Nan Clark's Lane, NW7, to meet Ian Carmichael. He is Bertie Wooster. Oh, brilliant. He played it on television, you know. Ah. Sunshine in the morning room, coffee, biscuits, happy chat about who else he wants in the play, the sets, the lighting, the challenges of high comedy. Not exactly fast, you see, old Bean, so it can be a mite tricky, eh, what? Then he drove me in his roller, don't you know, to the underground. Can you imagine? I'm in my early 20s, and Ian Carmichael was a huge film star in England and had been on television and all these things in his Rolls Royce, driving me with one hand on the wheel and calling me Old Bean to the underground station.

33:06Oh, dear. Very fun. Happy days, actually. Really happy days. Aw. Lunch at Baker Street with Noel Davis. Crisis. John Clements said no to the bank manager. William Douglas Hume's new title for his play. He always has success with plays containing the word the in the title. the reluctant debutante the secretary bird etc so it's not called in the red now it's called the bank manager at celia's suggestion oh so john clemens has said no at celia's suggestion i dropped it off on michael horden reminding him that i'd been in twelfth night at beadale school with his daughter joanna this was a mistake oh he hated my malvolio oh no yes he remembered it well and hated it that much.

33:54Well his daughter had played the leading lady Olivia and he'd been and I now recall that when he came to see he was sitting near my parents he was muttering about how appalling I was. Child. The overacting and all the rest of it. Oh that's bad. Yeah anyway. Anyway having read the play Michael Horton telephoned Celia Johnson to tell her that not only was he not going to do the play but on no account must she do it either. It's a dreadful play. Crude and obvious complete rubbish. Celia Johnson telephoned me from the garden. I am so very sorry. Oh, this is going badly, Charles. But you will prevail.

34:36Wait for it. There must be recovery. Sunday the 28th of April 1974. My second ludicrous weekend at Butlins in Minehead playing Snoopy. Oh, that storyline's still going harriet snoopy storyline yes but also is the buttlins storyline it's strange i'm going to ask you just carry on i'll ask you about butlins at the end because we have shared your butlins experience or some of it with our listeners yeah my second ludicrous weekend at butlins in minehead playing snoopy yes i went on playing snoopy the place is hateful like a prisoner of war camp. In fact, I think it was a prisoner of war camp. The food is dire, the chalet is made of cardboard, the water from the taps run slow, tepid and light brown.

35:28The children are truly ghastly. They run up to Snoopy, shouting abuse, kicking the costume, yanking the tail. Never again. Giles. It was. Do you think... I'm sure it's changed. People from Butlins, please don't sue. No. Because you've been recently. You loved it. Do you think you're a bit of a snob? Ooh. Yeah. Just putting it out there, Giles. I mean, we've all got it in us, haven't we? Yes, to go somewhere and think, well, it sounds ghastly, doesn't it? This isn't good enough for me. No, but I'm in a snoopy suit. I mean, I know I'm there as a hired hand to be an entertainer. Yeah. I'm there to amuse the children.

36:07The children are not amused. They're shouting, I mean, foul language, rude words, kicking the costume, yanking the tail. I could see them through. There was a gauze in the neck through which you could see. They looked up at the head, which was above me. So the head was about a seven foot tall costume. Were you muttering abuse to them? No, I wasn't. I was thinking, this is hell on earth. Why am I reduced for money? I hope I'm not a snob. Yes. I hope I'm not a snob. I think we do all have that in us. I think I have got that sometimes. But it's interesting to me that you really don't like Butlins.

36:40Because some people go to Butlins on holiday. Well, we are going out next week, you and I, for fun, for a creative get-together. And I want you to choose where we go. Because I think I, in the past, have usually chosen where we go. And I'll be interested to see what you choose. And we'll let people know. Yep. Yesterday, before I came down to this hellhole, I met up with Ray Cooney first thing. Springtime for Henry is looking good. That was the play with Ian Carmichael. Ian Carmichael and Barbara Murray, both top-notch. St. Joan is looking classy. Rita Tushingham is a film star and perfect casting.

37:18John Standing as the Dauphin and James Villiers as Warwick. Noel Willman, Charles Lloyd-Pack, Charles Dance. A fine cast. Our problem is the third play. We are dependent on Sir Ralph. Now, he doesn't want to do the missionary. I know Anna Massey would be the best giraffe since Johnny G did Andre Obes know before the war but I just can't see little Anna called a martial as the leopard can you? We're now trying to tempt him with a play about Goya the artist Goya There is a problem It is a modern piece about the Spanish artist at the end of his life and when the great man goes blind the audience is invited to shut their eyes to fully share the sensation Won't they miss the best of my performance?

38:08Inquires Sir Ralph Not unreasonably Peter Coe, the purveyor of Goya And celebrated as the original director of Oliver Has come up with another idea The Trials of Oscar Wilde A courtroom drama based on the original transcripts Suggestion from Noel Davis Celia Johnson can drag up And play Oscar Great idea

39:00Thank you. Speaking of brunch, check out their deviled eggs, cold-pressed juices, and more. Spring is in bloom now at Whole Foods Market. Wednesday the 5th of June, 1974. I'm in Grimsby. I've had no sleep. Rather, I've had what sleep you get when you leave King's Cross at 1.15 in the morning and reach Grimsby at 5.50 a.m. I'm to give my all, what little's left of it, to the Grimsby Luncheon Club at noon. Right now, over tea and biscuits at the Humber Royal Hotel, I'm going to try to catch up with the diary. I should have come up here last night. I didn't because Noel lured me to joining him for a night of consolation and alcohol at Macready's Club with Jimmy Villiers, Ronnie Fraser and other inebriated thespians.

39:53We, Noel and I, have had a difficult few days, to put it mildly. Let me try to tell the whole story as succinctly as I can. Less than a week ago, Rita Tushingham's agent called. I'm afraid Miss Tushingham will have to pull out. But she can't. But she must. She's got a film to make in Israel. But she can't. She's got a play to appear in Oxford. I'm sorry. You'll have to release her. It's a big movie. St. Joan is a big part. You're paying her£50 a week. The film is worth thousands. If need be, she'll buy her way out of the play, but I'm sure that won't be necessary. I don't know what to say. I was so angry, so distressed.

40:36Noel scrawled offensive remarks all over her photograph in spotlight. We will never, ever, ever, ever use that cow again, I bawled. Until we need her, said Noel. We reported the bad news to Ray. with Michelle's suggestion for a replacement. Not a star, but a fine actress. Frances de la Tour, a client of Simon Cadell's father. Available and interested. Good God, spluttered Ray. No, no, no. I'm not risking thousands putting on George Bernard Shaw's St. Joan with Frances de la No. 3 Tour. I want a name, a canopy name. We trawled Spotlight. Eileen Atkins, not available. Diana Rigg, not available. Maggie Smith, not available.

41:21Anna Massey. We're looking for a martyr, not a giraffe. Said no. She's good. Not that good. Said no. Janet Sussman. Not available. Susan Hampshire. Not available. Jane Asher. Not available. Billy Whitelaw. Billy Whitelaw. How about Billy Whitelaw? I called Miss Whitelaw's agent. I called Miss Whitelaw. She wasn't sure. She was flattered but uncertain. Wasn't she too old? I told her that Sir John wanted her above all others. Truth is, I hadn't yet told Sir John Clements about Tushingham's flight to Israel. I wanted to sort it first. Anyway, she asked for time. She'd been planning to use the summer to get her teeth sorted, but she was certainly interested.

42:05Could she sleep on it? In her sleep, she must have heard voices. They told her to say yes. She called me with the good news on Saturday night. I called Sir John at breakfast time on Sunday. Sir John, I said, I have bad news and good news. The bad news is that we've lost Rita Chushingham. The good news... Get on a train at once, he barked. At once. Bring spotlight. We'll sort it out today. But Sir John, at once. I caught the 10 o 'clock train from Victoria. I reached Marine Parade at 11.30am. I found the Clements flat for Rufford Court. Not spacious, musty, heavily hung with theatrical memorabilia.

42:46Sir John was in fighting form. He showed me his collection of sword sticks and ushered me onto the balcony overlooking the seafront. He left me there alone with his sweet, frail wife who struggled slowly and painfully to tell me that she'd been something of a star herself before she'd had her stroke. I know, I said stupidly. I loved Genevieve. As I said it, I remembered that Genevieve was Kay Kendall. this was Kay Hammond a different actress a different film Blythe Spirit Sir John returned with goblets of gin and tonic and regaled me with the crisis that befell him when Danny Kay pulled out of his promised appearance at Chichester we did the Italian straw hat instead work to treat he would not let me break the news to him lunch first he insisted then work lunch was served in a small alcove off the drawing room and brought in by an elderly servant in an improbable wig.

43:46Was it the same lady who waits at table at the Redgrave household? Anyway, she was summoned from the kitchen by means of an electric bell positioned discreetly by Miss Hammond's place at the table. Unfortunately, while the bell made a dreadful racket all over the flat, the servant in the kitchen appeared not to hear the bell at all and Sir John had to go and fetch her between courses. When coffee was served, I broke my good news. I have secured, Sir John, Billy Whitelaw for the part. Sir John Clements' jaw fell. But you can't have. I have. No, no, no, you haven't. He was wild-eyed, incandescent.

44:28I have. But you cannot have recast the title part without consulting the director. If you have, I resign. Oh. To cut to the chase, he did not resign. He would not budge on Billy Whitelaw. He knows her, he likes her, he respects her. But in a month of Sundays, she cannot, in his view, play St. Joan. I returned to London and on Monday morning broke the news to Miss Whitelaw's agent. She told me that in her long career she had never known anything like it and that she personally would see to it that I never, ever worked in the theatre again. I was an utter disgrace, and if Miss Whitelaw were now to have a breakdown, which was entirely possible, the responsibility would be mine.

45:17I did not have the courage to telephone Miss Whitelaw, but I wrote her an abject and heartfelt letter of apology. Oh dear. We have now cast Julia Foster. Sir John's idea. Ray is happy. She is a film star. Well, she was in Alfie, and more to the point, she has had a West End triumph in Lulu. So she counts as a canopy name. Oh. Wow. What a saga. Julia Foster. She was a big name in those days. She was very beautiful. You'll discover what happens in a moment. This is one of the worst, most difficult periods of my life, actually. I mean, it sounds exhausting. It was exhausting. Trying to find all these plays and wrangling these awful pieces of talent.

46:03I was spinning plates on very, very wobbly sticks. Yeah, charming people. I was in my mid-twenties. Dropping people. I'd never done it before. So John Clements was a very distinguished director. He'd run the Trichester Festival Theatre. I was lucky to have him on board. I had these very good people, people like Celia Johnson. You know, people still remember. Rita Tushingham then was a huge star. These were big, big issues. Oh, my gosh. Giles. Wow. what professionally has been the worst experience of your life like that where something went wrong i um remember producing an item which is like a you know something that happened in saturday night takeaway ant and dex live saturday night entertainment show um and it was an item that involved us the way we were going to get into it was that someone in the audience's mobile phone was going to ring in their bag and then Ant and Dec would say whose phone is that and then that person that that got the phone call would then be the subject of this surprise thing that would happen because we did surprise on people in the audience and it turned out that the person who we needed this to happen to didn't have a mobile phone so I through various circuitous routes you know you're talking to their family you're setting up this surprise for them.

47:30You're, you know, you've been talking to their husband, their sister-in-law, their brother, all these people that are coming with them to the studio. I'd arranged that the sister-in-law would put her phone in this woman's bag. And that was the phone that would ring. So the phone rings and aunt goes, whose phone is that ringing? She goes, it's not my phone. It's not my phone. I haven't got a phone. That's my sister-in-law's phone. Anyway, it was a nightmare. And it just started the whole thing off wrong. I mean, it was a crazy idea to set it up with a silly phone call to somebody who didn't have a phone anyway but needless to say the whole thing went wrong it ant and deck were really struggling with it it's live and as they came it's live as they came into the gallery for the ad break after this item and said loudly who produced that item and it was me and i just sat there thinking does this explain why people have said to us oh would you have Ant and Dec on Rosebud and we've never asked them?

48:30A hundred percent I would have Ant and Dec on Rosebud. They've got a podcast now. I do. We should have them on. We should and I see them occasionally because you know I work for ITV. Yeah, no, and actually their podcast is produced by a friend of mine. Well, let's get them on. But yes, I would still feel a slight sense of shame seeing Ant and humiliation. Isn't that awful? It lingers for so long. We must help you work through that pain. That's 20 years ago that happened. Oh my God. You would have completely you've forgotten about that. Well, 20 years ago, you were so young, you're quite forgiven.

49:00Yes, I was only 16. Well, actually, people can send in their worst ever moments. Yes. We might be doing that sort of thing in Edinburgh. The safe way to do it, of course, is to mark the seat in some way. So you say to somebody, you know, somebody's got skull and crossbones under their seat. Yeah. And whoever it is, that's the person. They just wanted a fun device. Yeah. Or maybe a fun device would be to have an explosive under the seat and they would sort of, it would send them up like a rocket. So have you had enough of my diaries for this week? I mean, it's riveting, the Oxford Theatre Festival, Giles.

49:34Well. If people knew the drama that goes on behind the scenes when something like this is put on, I mean, that's what I often think as a producer is, I mean, obviously producing this podcast is a pleasure and that we don't have many mishaps, but behind the scenes of a lot of different TV shows, theatre production is a huge amount of drama and terrible stomach-churning moments. I mean, they happen a lot when you're making TV. People dropping out, people not turning up when you want them to. And you're having to, as you say, spin plates and keep the show on the road. You can't just give up. You have to bring this thing to fruition.

50:12And that's the producer's job, actually. People sometimes say to me, what do the producers do? Well, you just make things happen and you try to make it look as if it was all effortless, but it usually isn't effortless. It's usually an absolute pain in the backside. You have made this happen brilliantly. Well, you do a lot, Giles. You're a brilliant producer, that's the fact. We are a very good team. If you want to meet us, you can come and see us at the Edinburgh Fringe. We're doing some work-in-progress tryout shows before then. I think the one at the Riverside Studios in Hammersmith in London is sold out.

50:45I'm not sure of the two at the old sorting office in barns are sold out. But I think we're also doing one... Well, anyway, look it up. The show is, at the moment, the top line is Giles Brandreth up memory lane with a twist of Rosebud and Harriet Jane. You should have said a twist of zest. I should. Well, we can add that to it. We'll add it. We'll add the zest. Giles and his zesty bestie, Harriet. So, this has been fun today. We've got another great guest on Friday. If you want to... There's a Facebook page, isn't there, for Facebook fans? There is. There's a group run by one of our listeners called Peter Hansen who is such a good colleague.

51:26He's just volunteers but he's brilliant and so good to deal with. And some people... It's called Rosebud Reflections. Rosebud Reflections. Some people also like to see photographs because sometimes we talk about our families and there's, I know, a photograph of your mum. Somebody said he wanted to see your dad and his second wife. Oh, yeah. Somebody wrote in and we're trying to fix that. I'm not sure they're pictures of my parents. They're pictures of me when I'm small. Here's some pictures of Michelle. So the website is www.rosebudpodcast.co.uk. So that's where people go for that. And more excitements everywhere you go.

52:02And probably actually we'll do a link there for people who want to buy tickets to any of these events. Oh, that's a good idea. That's a good idea. Then it makes it much simpler. It does. Doesn't it? Yeah. And there are some fun photos of you and me, which may raise expectations. I hadn't seen the photographs before. Have you seen them yet? The ones we did when we had our pictures taken? You're sending me up in most of the pictures, putting funny faces. I'm trying to smile at the camera. Anyway, you can see all that. Anyway, thank you very much. See you on Friday. If you belong to the Rosebud family, see you on Sunday.

52:37And next Tuesday, what it'll be. So is that it for now? That's it. That's it. I'm Giles Brandreth. With your... The zesty bestie, Harriet Jane. And this has been a Plain Jane production. I love that name. I love doing this. I love being with you. It wouldn't be anything without you who are listening. So thank you for being there. Cue the music. Cue the music.

53:16Thank you.

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