More Rosebud - Gyles's Diary episode 45

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1:02Michèle Brandreth: Hello again. Or if this is the very first time you've come across Rosebud, hello. My name is Giles Brandreth, and because this is the More Rosebud episode that we drop on a Tuesday, it's not just me here. My producer and friend Harriet Jane joins me at the microphone, and together we say hello. Hello. I wanted to ask you, Harriet, What would you say is the landmark that for you defines the British Isles? I ask for a reason. And our podcast goes around the world now, which is thrilling for us. Only about three quarters of our audience are based in Britain. The rest are overseas. And I came across a survey of the most iconic landmarks in the British Isles.

1:53Michèle Brandreth: And what do you think came first?

1:57Harriet: Oh, was it Big Ben?

1:59Michèle Brandreth: It was. Well done.

2:01Harriet: Oh, wow, that's what I was going to say.

2:04Michèle Brandreth: What else would you have chosen?

2:06Harriet: I was going to choose something like an oak tree or a pile of rocks somewhere because I grew up in Devon and there's some really amazing rocks on Dartmoor.

2:19Michèle Brandreth: Well, there were rocks because the Giant's Causeway was in that list. I've been there. It's fantastic. It's in Northern Ireland.

2:25Harriet: It looks amazing.

2:26Michèle Brandreth: And I think the idea was that once upon a time you could go along that causeway from there to Scotland before there was a sea there.

2:32Harriet: Oh, how amazing.

2:33Michèle Brandreth: I think that's up there. I would have chosen, it wasn't on the list,

2:38Harriet: the White Cliffs of Dover is rather wonderful. Yeah.

2:43Michèle Brandreth: On my list too would be Salisbury Cathedral.

2:46Harriet: Oh, lovely.

2:47Michèle Brandreth: I visited Salisbury Cathedral this week because I am the chairman of something called the Edward Heath Charitable Foundation. Edward Heath was the British Prime Minister in 1970 to 73, and I knew him. He was an odd character, but he was remarkable. He probably was the first conservative working-class Prime Minister. Oh, really?

3:14Harriet: I didn't know he was working-class.

3:16Michèle Brandreth: Well, he came from a straightforward family, and I think they were working people. I think you could describe him as a working-class boy. who was clever and, you know, got scholarships, went to Oxford University. What was also interesting about him is that he maybe was the last prime minister to have a proper life outside of politics. I think he won a big international yacht race while he was prime minister.

3:44Harriet: Yeah, he loved sailing, didn't he?

3:46Michèle Brandreth: He loved sailing. He was a good sailor. He loved music as well. he conducted choirs and I said to him once you know when did it all change he said it wouldn't be possible now to follow the thing interests I had and he of course blamed Margaret Thatcher who defeated him and became the Conservative leader in succession to him.

4:06Harriet: Oh how interesting and she really was a workaholic. Absolutely and he

4:09Michèle Brandreth: felt that from then on in the Prime Ministers felt they had to work you know 18 hours a day and be always on it

4:15Harriet: and the 24 hour news round

4:17Michèle Brandreth: whereas he came from a tradition set by more patrician people like Harold Macmillan, where you could be in Downing Street reading a novel by Trollope, you know, two or three hours of an afternoon reading your novel.

4:29Harriet: Yeah, wonderful. I mean, actually, it was one of the things I rather liked about Jeremy Corbyn when he came on, was he said, I think you said something to him like, oh, you know, do you have a bit of a reputation of being awkward? and he said oh that's just because I am quite clear about setting aside time and I just say no I'm not I'm not working now I'm reading for the next two hours and I sit in the House of Commons library and I get a book off the shelf and read it and I say I'm going to my allotment for five hours this afternoon yeah and I think you need to do that to remain sane he said you have to do that otherwise you could spend 24 hours a day answering your constituents complaints yeah even as a

5:13Michèle Brandreth: backbench MP, which he now is. But if you are a minister, let alone prime minister, the pressures on you, the international pressures, the national pressures, the party pressures, they do. They completely take over your life. Whereas Ted Heath was a bachelor anyway, had, well, a life with a variety of interests. And he felt that gave him the freedom, this is his view, to think big thoughts, to think long term, to actually do the strategic thinking required of a prime minister, not to get bogged down in detail and he felt his complaint about margaret thatcher was that she got far too bogged down in detail and his view i think about you get the right people in the ministerial posts you set the general direction and you say to them get on with it and you don't then interfere i think

6:01Harriet: i performed in a choir and ted heath was in the audience at bayleol college that was his college because it was his college i think he was fast asleep so i think he was thinking big thoughts possibly quite a lot of the time while having a snooze after lunch.

6:15Michèle Brandreth: As the years went by, he put on too much weight.

6:18Harriet: Yeah, he didn't look to me like someone that was having big thoughts. He wasn't in the peak of fitness.

6:24Michèle Brandreth: But I liked him, and Michelle, my wife, and I were lucky enough to go and have lunch with him. And people said he could be monosyllabic, you know. Somebody, one of his private secretaries passed him a note. He was sitting next to the lady mayoress, and the note said, please talk to the woman on your left, reminding him, talk to the woman on your left, Lady Mayoress. And he sent back a note saying, I have. He could be truly monotillabic. Though when Michelle sat next to him at lunch, she found him good company and he treated her properly. At the end of the lunch, he got up a box of cigars and offered her a cigar.

7:00Harriet: Oh, really?

7:01Michèle Brandreth: Yes, he was saying, Fidel gave me these, meaning Fidel Castro.

7:04Harriet: Oh, yeah, he was proud of his friendship with Fidel Castro.

7:07Michèle Brandreth: He also gave him the orchids that were in his garden.

7:09Harriet: Oh, and did Michelle accept a cigar?

7:12Michèle Brandreth: I think she took her cigar and brought it back to London and gave it to my father.

7:17Harriet: Oh, that's sensible.

7:18Michèle Brandreth: Which was a nice thing to do because she's never been a smoker, let alone of cigars.

7:21Harriet: Have you ever smoked a cigar? No. Never?

7:23Michèle Brandreth: I've never smoked a cigarette. I've never smoked anything.

7:25Harriet: You've never tried smoking a cigar?

7:27Michèle Brandreth: Can I tell you, Harriet, you know, I have lived so little.

7:32Harriet: You've said this before, Giles, you haven't. You've lived about 27 lives compared to most people listening to this.

7:39Michèle Brandreth: I've been a busy fool. But you just... I've never done anything daring.

7:42Harriet: Yeah, but that's okay. I mean, you're healthy because you've not been smoking cigars and taking... Anyway. What was it Catelyn Moran's dad was up to? Taking LSD and the church opposite him took off like a rocket.

7:54Michèle Brandreth: That was such a fabulous episode.

7:56Harriet: Brilliant.

7:56Michèle Brandreth: We've had some... Are we allowed to give people a sneak of what we've got this Friday? We're allowed to tell people, do you think, in advance to get them excited?

8:03Harriet: Oh, yeah, because that's what you do.

8:06Michèle Brandreth: Tease them up.

8:06Harriet: Teasing. We're teasing them. We're teasing them.

8:08Michèle Brandreth: This Friday, everybody, on Rosebud, we're coming up to the 60th anniversary of the World Cup when England won in 1966. And there's only one person left alive who was on the field of play that day. And it is Sir Geoff Hurst. And I'm pleased to say that he is going to be our guest on Rosebud on Friday. So if you want to know what it was like to play in the World Cup 60 years ago and to win the World Cup 60 years ago and to score three of the goals when we won the World Cup, come, join us on Rosebud this Friday because Geoff Hurst is completely fascinating. What you will learn about him and about football and about leadership, the way he talks about Bobby Moore, it is extraordinary.

8:56Michèle Brandreth: Also, you'll marvel at what money they were paid back in those days. It's a really great episode. How'd I get on to Geoff Hurst?

9:05Harriet: Oh, because I mentioned Catlin Moran and you said, oh, should we tease up the next Friday? So that's this Friday.

9:10Michèle Brandreth: Right now, we're going to get into diaries in a moment, but I do want to finish this thing about going to Salisbury. So I went to Salisbury Cathedral because Edward Heath lived in Salisbury. He had a beautiful house in Salisbury Close called Arundel's, which is now owned by a trust, and I chair the foundation. And we keep this open. About 10 ,000 people a year visit it. It's a beautiful house, Queen Anne House, but some of the origins go back to the 13th century. It's wonderful. And it's in the cathedral close. And I walked from the house to Salisbury Cathedral. And the beauty of that cathedral in the evening sunshine.

9:45Michèle Brandreth: I went to Evensong, which was spoken. There was no singing, which was possibly good because you know what my singing is like. And I thought, this is good. and I thought this building is one of the great buildings of the world and it was put up, begun in the 13th century.

10:05Harriet: Amazing.

10:06Michèle Brandreth: It's amazing and it still stands. One of the great, well, the great landmarks of our country.

10:11Harriet: And it's near Stonehenge, which is another of the great landmarks and is a pile of rocks, which is what I was saying. Yes, exactly.

10:19Michèle Brandreth: So I recommend to anyone, if you want to feel good, find a building or a view or somewhere that is special and just go and enjoy it. And I also recommend actually going to evening prayer, which they do. I mean, at Salisbury Cathedral, it's normally even song. I think they have girls singing one night, boys singing the next night. And by the night I happened to be there, it was just spoken. And it was rather touching because at the end of the service, the priest, the clergyman who had conducted it, came and said hello, and I said hello. and he said, I know your sister because he used to be, I think, the vicar of my sister's church in St Albans.

10:58Harriet: Oh, that's nice. That was rather nice, wasn't it? Yeah.

11:00Michèle Brandreth: And remembered her. That's a cathedral.

11:02Harriet: I think St Albans is one of the cathedral. It is.

11:04Michèle Brandreth: And of course, St Albans is the great English saint.

11:07Harriet: Oh, is he?

11:09Michèle Brandreth: Is he? Absolutely.

11:11Harriet: Oh, good.

11:12Michèle Brandreth: I mean, move over St George. St Albans is your man.

11:15Harriet: Oh, I live near St Albans. I must go up there.

11:18Michèle Brandreth: You must. I didn't know you lived near there. Crouch End isn't St Albans anyway.

11:21Harriet: No, it's only a 40 minute drive. Yeah, yeah. It's where the Crouch Enders go when they want to leave London. St Albans.

11:29Michèle Brandreth: Have you had any good emails this week?

11:31Harriet: Yes. Very good one. I picked it out because it's rather exotic and I think it showcases the eclectic, fascinating, artistic and brilliant nature of the Rosebud listener. I think we've probably got the best listeners of all the podcasts you're from all over the place obviously lots and lots of people in the UK so you know we've just been talking about British landmarks but we know there's so many people in lots of amazing countries and this email's from someone I just thought wow I can't believe we've got this person listening to Rosebud as they do this incredible job that you just wouldn't even think of hello Giles I discovered your podcast two months ago and I'm already addicted to it.

12:17Harriet: That's good. I'm British born but live and work in the very southern tip of Israel as a date farmer. My days are spent tending to 6 ,000 date palms accompanied by my dog Lyra and the hot sun. I have many many hours to listen to podcasts and so is excited to come across Rosebud. I adore your interview style which gives the interviewee the space to tell their own story. As I work my way through the back catalogue, I have yet to find an interview that wasn't entirely absorbing. Thank you. I thought I'd tell you my earliest memories. The first is in 68 or 69, when my Uncle David took me to visit what was then known as the Post Office Tower in London, another great landmark.

13:02Harriet: I remember running alongside a curved wall and jumping onto his lap. He sadly died during 1969 of a sudden heart attack, but I've always imagined him as my guardian angel. The second memory is of sitting on the hovercraft en route to the Isle of Wight. The sea was rough and the windows were splashed by white foam. I think I was about three years old. Be well, and thank you for keeping my ears happy. Sincerely, Penny Pitts. So that's cool, isn't it?

13:32Michèle Brandreth: It's more than cool. It's beautiful. and to think of her as a date farmer.

13:38Harriet: I know. Have you ever been to a date, an oasis, a date?

13:42Michèle Brandreth: No, because you know I don't like dates at all.

13:45Harriet: Well, it's funny because today, on my way here, I opened Oddboy out at a random page because we always give our guests a copy of Oddboy out.

13:54Michèle Brandreth: Which is my sort of childhood memoir.

13:56Harriet: Yeah. And as I put it into my rucksack, I opened it up and read you talking about eating some disgusting dates at the Lise and they came from Algeria and you liked the box they were in but they were stringy and the horrible taste and texture stayed with you ever since. Because I love dates. In fact, I ate one yesterday. Yeah.

14:19Michèle Brandreth: Very nice. I mean, I actually retch almost at the mention of the word date. And if I saw them, I really do back away from them.

14:26Harriet: Oh, so you didn't like that email very much.

14:29Michèle Brandreth: I love the email because I love the idea of her doing it and listening to us at the same time. And also her wonderful evocative memory of the post office tower, which I do remember going to as a child. And in those days, the tower revolved very, very slowly.

14:45Harriet: Very cool.

14:45Michèle Brandreth: So slowly you could hardly notice it was revolving. But I think I went with my parents. We had a meal up there. And in the course of the meal, you would go right the way around.

14:52Harriet: So can you still go up it? Because I'd like to go up it.

14:55Michèle Brandreth: I don't think you can anymore.

14:56Harriet: That's a shame. Is it still turning? No.

14:59Michèle Brandreth: Is it still turning? I don't think it is.

15:01Harriet: Oh, God. Life has got less fun than it was in the 60s.

15:04Michèle Brandreth: In every way.

15:05Harriet: The 60s was great. My dad said that in the 60s you could, in London, park anywhere. He said you could just drive around in your cool little car that you had, your MG or whatever you were driving around in, with your flares on. And you could just park on Oxford Street. Life was free and easy, wasn't it?

15:27Michèle Brandreth: Well, let's discover what it was like in the 1970s. Oh, yeah. Because we've got my diary here.

15:31Harriet: Hooray. Yeah, well, so thanks so much, Penny Pitts, for that email.

15:36Michèle Brandreth: And if people want to send us emails, where do they write to?

15:38Harriet: They write to hello at rosebudpodcast.com.

15:41Michèle Brandreth: Good.

15:41Harriet: Yeah, but only if they're from like a date plantation or the International Space Station.

15:49Michèle Brandreth: Well, people do write to us from all over the world. Yeah. Do any people write to us from the UK?

15:54Harriet: They do, but we do. I think we do get a disproportionate number of people emailing from fun countries.

16:00Michèle Brandreth: Yes, maybe they just want to keep in touch with home.

16:03Harriet: Yeah, I think possibly if you're living in another place, you're in the habit of sending postcards, aren't you? And we've been added to the postcard list.

16:11Michèle Brandreth: Well, you know, postcards are all over.

16:13Harriet: Oh, it doesn't surprise me. It's dead.

16:15Michèle Brandreth: The postcard is dead. Yeah. Postcard, when do you think the first postcard was sent?

16:21Harriet: Oh, that's a good question.

16:24Michèle Brandreth: Give us a guess. I know the precise year.

16:27Harriet: Do you? the 18th century 17th or 18th century

16:32Michèle Brandreth: no there was no postage

16:34Harriet: my great great great great uncle invented the post

16:37Michèle Brandreth: what was his name again Roland Hill

16:39Harriet: Roland Hill

16:40Michèle Brandreth: listen to that your producer everybody is a descendant of Roland Hill

16:45Harriet: oh so the 19th century yes 1869 what's that recently

16:49Michèle Brandreth: that's when postcards began and yeah and I love them and sending people you know wish you were here and all of that And I love the cheeky postcards, those saucy McGill postcards.

17:00Harriet: Oh, yeah, everyone loved those. It's all over.

17:02Michèle Brandreth: It's all over for the postcards.

17:04Harriet: I still send postcards sometimes.

17:05Michèle Brandreth: So do I.

17:06Harriet: Yeah.

17:06Michèle Brandreth: But nobody else is. We're the last two left sending postcards.

17:09Harriet: Oh, well, we need to get that going. Rosebud listeners, make sure we send a postcard this summer, please. Let's have a campaign.

17:15Michèle Brandreth: Let's have. And they can either send it to us here in London. Oh, what you want?

17:18Harriet: No, I was just encouraging them to send them to their loved ones, not to us.

17:21Michèle Brandreth: Well, if you want to send a postcard to us, we wouldn't mind. You can send it to us in London at the Grosvenor House, Park Lane, London.

17:31Harriet: W1K70N, maybe. Oh, well done.

17:32Michèle Brandreth: That's impressive, Elliot Chain. Not sure. You should check that on Google. Check the postcode, but it'll find us. It'll find us. You just send it to us, Rosebud, and it'll come to our studio. Or they can find us in Edinburgh.

17:43Harriet: Yes. I don't know what the address is.

17:45Michèle Brandreth: Well, the Gordon Aikman Theatre, George Square, Edinburgh.

17:48Harriet: Oh, that would be fun. Yeah, send us one of those naughty ones, you know, with a man and wife in a bikini and something saucy written on the top.

17:58Michèle Brandreth: We love all that. Yes, a rude postcard. Yeah. We love a McGill rude postcard. There was a museum of them in the Art of White, but I think even that may have closed.

18:08Harriet: Oh, yeah, it's probably not very. It's been cancelled.

18:12Michèle Brandreth: We will give a prize for the cheekiest, but in our view, fun. It's got to be fun as well. Rudery alone is not enough.

18:19Harriet: Okay.

18:20Michèle Brandreth: But a cheeky postcard that we get.

18:23Harriet: Or a nice, just a lovely picture of somewhere. So is this official now? We're actually starting a competition here, a postcard competition.

18:29Michèle Brandreth: A postcard competition.

18:30Harriet: Because you know we could end up with a huge sack. It'd be like Blue Peter. I would love that. I'll be up all night reading them all.

18:35Michèle Brandreth: Harry Styles has just got his Blue Peter badge, incidentally. Oh, why did he get that? Well, for being Harry Styles.

18:41Harriet: He is quite sexy.

18:43Michèle Brandreth: So is that what the Blue Peter badge has come down to? Well, I got one. You get one for being sexy. I got one. Oh, well.

18:49Harriet: Not for being sexy. I think all I did was send in a load of stamps or something. It wasn't very exciting. But I've got one.

18:55Michèle Brandreth: So we are launching the Rosebud Postcard Competition.

18:59Harriet: Okay.

19:00Michèle Brandreth: You send a postcard to Giles and Harriet at Grosvenor House, probably the best address to go to.

19:05Harriet: Yeah.

19:06Michèle Brandreth: Park Lane, London, W1...

19:10Harriet: K70N, I think.

19:11Michèle Brandreth: Good. And we will pick out the best classical, attractive postcard and, in our view, the most amusing and charming saucy postcard.

19:21Harriet: Yes, okay, great.

19:23Michèle Brandreth: And we'll put them on our website so people can see what we've chosen.

19:26Harriet: Are they writing a message on there? You know, what they've been up to in their holidays. Weather's lovely, went for a lovely meal last night.

19:33Michèle Brandreth: Or memories, it's all about memories. Oh, okay. It can be their first memory or a memory of a happy seaside holiday.

19:40Harriet: Yeah, okay, I love it.

19:41Michèle Brandreth: Because you've recently been to Margate.

19:43Harriet: I mean, there must have been some saucy postcards on sale there.

19:48Michèle Brandreth: There will have been scores of them.

19:49Harriet: Yeah, Margate.

19:51Michèle Brandreth: Margate's the home of the saucy postcard. Perfect. Did you go to Dreamland?

19:54Harriet: I walked past it, yeah.

19:55Michèle Brandreth: You should walk into it next time.

19:57Harriet: I think it was closed.

19:57Michèle Brandreth: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.

19:59Harriet: Yeah.

19:59Michèle Brandreth: Oh no, Dreamland's closed?

20:00Harriet: No, no, I think it was just because we were there midweek. Oh no. Maybe it opens on a Thursday.

20:04Michèle Brandreth: No, Dreamland should be open 365 days a year.

20:08Harriet: It didn't seem open, but maybe it was. We went on the beach. They've got a, we went somewhere called Walpole Bay. It is in Margate, but it's just slightly off from the main beach. And they've got one of those sea pools, you know, when they build the walls. It's a sort of, it's nice. You can swim around in there. Quite a lot of seaweed, but it was lovely. Nice and warm because it's so hot, Giles, isn't it?

20:30Michèle Brandreth: It is hot. I quite like it. I used to spend thousands of pounds taking my family to places that were even hotter than this. So why am I complaining if it's as hot as this here?

20:39Harriet: No, this is hot. Yesterday in London was hotter than... My daughter's in Sicily. She said it was hotter than Sicily. Actually, yesterday was awful, Charles.

20:48Michèle Brandreth: Come on.

20:49Harriet: Today's nice. Yesterday was like a furnace.

20:52Michèle Brandreth: Well, I coped.

20:52Harriet: You were still wearing a jumper, you loon.

20:54Michèle Brandreth: I was. Okay.

20:56Harriet: Yeah.

20:57Michèle Brandreth: Let's go back to 1977. It's Friday the 27th of May. This is from my diary. And I hope people have been following me. How many episodes have you done in the diary?

21:08Harriet: I think this is episode 45 or 46. Wow.

21:11Michèle Brandreth: Well, get with the program, everybody. I can't give you my life story up to the age of whatever age I am. I'm about 29 by now, aren't I?

21:18Harriet: But honestly, do go back to the early years, if you haven't listened from the start, because the school days, they're captivating, aren't they, Giles? Don't you think?

21:28Michèle Brandreth: Yes.

21:29Harriet: Yeah, they really are. And I think, and the more you know me, I think the more you think this, they formed me. Oh, yeah.

21:37Michèle Brandreth: I am still, I think, the boy I was aged eight or nine or ten.

21:41Harriet: Yeah.

21:42Michèle Brandreth: Some people think their golden age was when they were 18 or 26 or even 34. I peaked at nine. No, maybe I peaked at 11 the year I played Rosalind and As You Like It in the school production.

21:53Harriet: No, I thought it was when you had your own office at B-Done. Oh, yes. How old were you then? 14 or 15? 14. Running the school magazine. Yeah. That felt to me like you really were in your element. I was. You had a tight writer, you had your own office, you had a sort of staff, you know, some girls from two years below. You were running the magazine.

22:14Michèle Brandreth: Do you know what I...

22:15Harriet: You were standing to the Conservatives. You know, you were... Yes, I was. All the seeds were there.

22:20Michèle Brandreth: All the seeds were there.

22:21Harriet: And shamefully, I now realise I had a girl who was my girlfriend, who actually was acting as my PA, or now they call them EA. Perfect, yeah. I mean, that's the Giles Brownrith business model.

22:33Michèle Brandreth: get your wife involved in in the work oh dear me come on michelle are you taking notes poor michelle she's up probably typing emails at three in the morning yeah if only if only oh dear she's slacking off i'm barely sleeping at the moment you know that i mean i have to resist i passed my i think i did do it last night because i assumed well i knew you were asleep i i did send some work emails at about one or two in the morning i know that but i assume you don't look at the emails for work until the following day. So I didn't feel guilty.

23:05Harriet: Well, if I wake up, I do.

23:05Michèle Brandreth: Yeah. So I apologise about that.

23:08Harriet: Oh, it's all right. I was awake at four. Oh, were you? It was so hot, Giles. Oh. Yeah. I mean, I went back to sleep, but I did wake up at four for a little while. Oh. Yeah.

23:17Michèle Brandreth: We'll do another episode about that. We've got some plans for you, actually, to help people sleep in the autumn. Some September shows.

23:23Harriet: Oh, yeah. Okay. Sorry, we keep rambling.

23:26Michèle Brandreth: It's diary time. It's because we enjoy chatting. Okay. Friday the 27th of May, 1977. All good. Tasty supper at the Greek place. Cuttings in from the National Scrabble Championships. Best coverage to date. For the London final at the Connacht Rooms, I wore my new Giles Brandreth Loves Scrabble jumper. A bright yellow machine-knitted jumper emblazoned with a complete scrabble board.

23:54Harriet: This is big news. This is the first novelty jumper, Giles.

23:57Michèle Brandreth: This is the day. I'm wearing a novelty jumper today as I record this with you. But on the 27th of May, 1977, we must have. Next year will be 2027. So it'll be an anniversary.

24:09Harriet: It's the 50th anniversary. Make a... Put this in the diary. Yeah, everybody. I'm reading it right now.

24:14Michèle Brandreth: Never mind the postcard competition.

24:15Harriet: 27th of May. Make a note. 27th of May. 2027.

24:18Michèle Brandreth: 2027 will be the half century of me wearing novelty knitwear.

24:24Harriet: Everyone listening has got to be wearing a novelty jumper that day. and send in a picture.

24:30Michèle Brandreth: Oh, that's fantastic.

24:31Harriet: Wait there. It's Charles Brander's jumper day. Jumper day.

24:37Michèle Brandreth: 27th of May. 50 years.

24:41Harriet: Wow.

24:42Michèle Brandreth: But the point is this. Okay, Harriet. What do I say next? This bright yellow machine knitted tromper emblazoned with a complete scrabble board. Lots of pics. And I immediately saw that it worked. meaning there were lots of pictures in the papers of me wearing this jumper. We are on the trawl for nursery schools. I tried to impress the heads by suggesting that I knew Maria Montessori personally. But the truth is, we've no idea what we're looking for. A good atmosphere, I suppose, and a teacher you feel is intelligent and alive and kind. I'm just in from Yule, where the atmosphere was musty. I took tea with Herbert and Audrey Lino.

25:25Michèle Brandreth: The son and granddaughter of the great Dan Lino, the funniest man on earth. This was a Victorian musical entertainer who was enormously famous, and I wrote a book about him. Dan, the king's jester, the champion clog dancer of the world, the greatest panto dame of them all. The six-mile route of his funeral was lined with crowds 20 deep. He was the greatest star of his age, yet who has heard of him now? The Linos were welcoming and helpful, but they don't have much material to give me and they may have a slightly inflated view of the great man standing nowadays, to put it mildly. Friday the 24th of June 1977.

26:10Michèle Brandreth: A horrid experience. I went to Hamish Hamilton, the publishers of my Dan Lino book, to have lunch with my editor, John Henderson. I went up to his office first to show him some of the pictures. I was sitting opposite him at his desk when his telephone rang. He picked it up and I heard the voice on the line ask, is the appalling Giles Brandreth with you yet?

26:38Harriet: Oh, poor you, Giles.

26:41Michèle Brandreth: And that was the moment 50 years ago in my life I realised that not everybody likes my style. you know I think they probably thought I was bumptious and I'd forgotten I'd put this down in the diary

27:00Harriet: I'm sorry you heard that

27:01Michèle Brandreth: yeah Giles

27:02Harriet: no it's never good to hear I mean obviously it's never good to hear someone say something

27:07Michèle Brandreth: like that about you maybe it's never good to hear the truth but it's not the truth

27:11Harriet: it's what one person thought of you but it's the price you pay for being known by a lot of people which you are and for being a personality, which you are. So that's good, Giles. Good. I'm sure there are some people out there that don't like me, but it just won't be as many because I don't know as many people as you.

27:28Michèle Brandreth: Moving on. Nobody doesn't like you. Oh, come on. Can I say, I've yet to see one. We love people's comments that they leave on YouTube and when they watch us on Instagram and things. And we have that lovely Facebook group. I've yet to see anything critical of you at all.

27:45Harriet: No, there was someone on Instagram and I blocked her. Oh, what did she say? She used to, I mean, because I think I stopped her from being able to do it. She used to comment quite regularly under things. Oh, the diaries would be much better without Harriet. Why did the diaries need a co-presenter?

28:07Michèle Brandreth: I know, because when we began the diaries, you said much less. In fact, at first, and I'll be honest with you, at first I thought, why is Harriet the producer interrupting my flow? But one of the things I've learnt in the last three years is actually, well, to let Harriet interrupt my flow. It's interesting and it's fun, actually. I mean, I hope I've learnt to listen. Anyway, on we go. I'm going to Glasgow now for the night children's book week. H.E. Todd will be there. He's a shoe salesman turned children's author, the creator of Bobby Brewster and the best storyteller I know. He can take a room of a hundred noisy, fidgety kids and keep them spellbound for an hour.

28:52I like him, and he likes me.

28:55Michèle Brandreth: I've had it in brackets. Some people do.

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29:49Michèle Brandreth: Tuesday the 16th of August 1977. The king is dead. Elvis Presley has died at Graceland, his mansion in Memphis, Tennessee. He was 42. It's not clear whether it was drink, drugs, tranquilizers or what, but it's a sad end to a life that, in its way, shook the world. Literally. Dan Lino died at 43. These stars that shine so bright do burn out. I imagine Shawaddy Waddy and the Sex Pistols will now take a backseat to make way for an Elvis revival. I was never a fan of Elvis. I never bought a record but I could see he had star quality and then some. And I never met him. I met Johnny Rotten in the lobby of the Midland Hotel Manchester.

30:40Michèle Brandreth: Oh, Mr. Rotten, I cooed. What an honour to meet you. Fuck off, fuckface, he replied.

30:46Harriet: Oh, dear.

30:48Michèle Brandreth: The deal is done with Colin's diaries. The contract is signed, and I have a feeling that with these people, the royalties will be paid. I start work on the 1979 range next week. They are sold in by reps in January. This is quite interesting. They were. I mean, as well as all the books I was writing and Scrabble competitions I was organizing and plays I was putting on, I had this business where, well, I was creating here a range of calendars and diaries for Collins. And in fact, for more than, for 30 or 40 years after that, they went on publishing them. Yeah. I mean, the International Management Diary and the Academic Year Diary brought me royalties for 40 years.

31:36Harriet: What, you went to Collins and said, why don't you do a diary of the academic year? Yes. And they hadn't thought of doing that?

31:42Michèle Brandreth: They hadn't thought of doing one.

31:43Harriet: And you get the money?

31:44Michèle Brandreth: And I got a little tickle of every copy sold. And an international management diary that competed with the Financial Times diary. And we did almost as well as the Financial Times diary. And it produced an income for 40 years. There were lots of other diaries. I did calendars. We did fun calendars. Of course I did an Alice in Wonderland calendar. Of course I did. But I did, well, you name it. I did children's diaries. We did a cookery diary. We did, oh, every kind of.

32:10Harriet: Would you say first and foremost you're an entrepreneur?

32:15Michèle Brandreth: I'm a failed entrepreneur. I was good at the ideas. I was not good at the follow through. To be serious, the reason we are successful is because I've learnt to share with good people. I think in those days I wanted to do it all on my own and so for example we were joking earlier about at school I had my girlfriends acting as assistants and when you and I began doing this by then I'd learnt actually I can't do it all I can have a bright idea like Rosebud but I will need somebody to make it happen with me and I hope you feel we have worked as equal partners I start work on the 1979 range next week They are sold in by reps in January.

33:03Michèle Brandreth: So isn't that interesting? A diary that you buy in the autumn has been sold in to the shops in January.

33:08Harriet: Yeah, that makes sense, yeah.

33:11Michèle Brandreth: Odd how being a parent of young children changes your life completely. Michelle is insisting I take Sundays off, making me mark day off, or D-O, in my appointments book. And the social highlight of our week? Claire Sainsbury's third birthday party on Saturday. Saturday, the 17th of September, 1977. Maria Callas has died, age 53, of a heart attack in Paris. Who's next? I'm not feeling too good myself. The Morning Post has brought another communication from Cotton, Gummersall and Palmer solicitors on behalf of the unhappy Herbert Lino. In my book, I say that the great Dan Lino died, age 43, of drink and exhaustion, shut up in an asylum, suffering from what his death certificate described as general paralysis of the insane, a phrase commonly used at the time to suggest syphilis.

34:14Michèle Brandreth: His son will have none of it, and accuses me of recklessly rushing into print. But all the evidence is in my favour. The solicitors say I'm a novice biographer, true, and that if my book is published, which it will be, they will be writing letters of protest to the Times, Daily Telegraph and Observer, so that the family's denials can be heard and truth will out. Good. I think we could use the publicity. That said, I am sorry to have distressed the old boy. I believe I'm telling the truth, and it was a long time ago, 75 years. But it is his dad. I do see that. Life would be a lot easier if one could just go somewhere and lie quietly in a hole.

34:57Harriet: Oh, yes.

35:00Michèle Brandreth: Humphrey Humphreys, our gentleman gardener, is here doing three hours a week at£3 an hour. He is so grand, it's very funny. Tomorrow is a day off. The highlight, Natasha Brown's third birthday party at 3.45pm. Clearly I found these taking Sundays off quite trying, but I managed. Tuesday the 4th of October 1977. We went to see Rachel Kempson in The Old Country by Alan Bennett. Alec Guinness, the star, is so good at making the ordinary sound elliptical and intriguing. We went round afterwards and had to wait for Sir John and Lady Mills, all twinkle and charm, to depart before we could open our bag of swag.

35:45Michèle Brandreth: We were taking Rachel, her£1 ,000 in cash. This is the agreed fee for the Food from France poster campaign. The Red Graves love French cheese. The Dennis Nordens love French cheese. The Patrick Campbells love French cheese. I set it up and my reward is£1 ,000 too, plus a wheel of brie and two camemberts per month for six months.

36:13Harriet: Wow.

36:14Michèle Brandreth: So this is me wheeler-dealing on the side, setting up commercials for well-known people.

36:21Harriet: Crazy, Giles.

36:22Michèle Brandreth: Rachel was anxious to have the loot in used notes. They're strapped for cash. The taxman is on their heels. They keep moving to smaller and smaller houses. Sir Michael is away in Canada doing his Shakespeare readings. I think he's fine, she said blithely. They are locked into one another, but I'm not sure how close they really are. Michelle said, messy lives these actors lead. Monday the 10th of October, 1977. Because I was working yesterday, Michelle has obliged me to take the day off today, a Monday. We are going to Harrods to buy crockery and find wallpaper for the hallway. Yesterday was good.

37:08Michèle Brandreth: Bonnie Langford came round to rehearse. She is the guest star on the Puzzle Party Christmas special we're recording on Wednesday. She's just 13 and an absolute puppet. I love her. I like her. I respect her. She works so hard and she knows what she's doing. She came with her parents. Her father, Donald, takes it as it comes, smiles gently and says not a lot. Her mother, Babette, is the driving force. Bonnie is her mother's creature, but she's also her own girl. She asserts her independence without being disloyal. She knows what people say about her. She made her Drury Lane debut, aged seven, in the musical version of Gone with the Wind.

37:49Michèle Brandreth: Famously, Noel Coward was there on the opening night when one of the live horses disgraced itself on stage. He remarked, if they'd shoved the child's head of the horse's arse, they could have solved two problems at once. Except that I don't think he did. I'm not even sure he was there. Bonnie says he was there, and what he said was, two things should have been cut, the second act and that child's throat. But I happen to know that Noel Coward used that line way before Gone with the Wind. Indeed, I have proof, which I produced for Bonnie. In The Wit of Noel Coward, on page 15, the exact story appears, word for word, except it's told by Griffith Jones about a play he was in with an insufferable 14-year-old infant prodigy.

38:41The book was published in 1968,

38:44Michèle Brandreth: three years before Gone with the Wind. I showed it to Bonnie. I don't think she wanted to believe it. Wednesday the 4th of January 1978. The new year plan was clear. Weight bad, 11 stone exactly. Overdraft, horrendous Action required And then tonight we had Hess, my sister Over for her birthday meal Ate too much, drank too much And ended up paying£280 for a pony for Bennet The pony is called Tonka Hess will look after him And will take Bennet over to Tooting for rides Every child should have a pony

39:28Harriet: That's mad, Giles

39:30Michèle Brandreth: Well, it was. Maybe I've been mad for years. I didn't get realised.

39:34Harriet: A pony and you live in London. We live in London. No one's got a pony in London.

39:38Michèle Brandreth: And also overdraft horrendous. But what it was, Hester, my sister Hester, who was troubled in many ways, she had been a nurse. She was what used to be called a mental nurse. She dealt with people with psychiatric problems. But she also, her love of her life was horses. So she would have known as staples, probably somewhere near Tooting where they had this pony. So I imagine she was getting a cut of the 280 pounds for the pony. I think we'll discover almost immediately that Tonka is virtually lame. And we've not bought a pony, we've bought a pup. Anyway, let's see. But it was exciting, the idea.

40:16Michèle Brandreth: You know, here we are in London. We're young parents, we're in our 20s and we've got this little boy and he's newborn, he's going to have a pony. You know, we're trying to live this sort of middle class life. and we can't afford it. Overdraft horrendous. And my gosh, I thought the weight was too much at 11 stone. I'm now 12 and a half stone, Harriet.

40:37Harriet: 11 stone's quite light.

40:39Michèle Brandreth: I was. I was very light.

40:41Harriet: Were you? Very slim.

40:42Michèle Brandreth: Very slim and nimble.

40:44Harriet: Yeah.

40:44Michèle Brandreth: Slim and nimble.

40:45Harriet: But skinny, I would say, 11 stone. Yeah. Yeah. I think 12 stone's better. Thank you. Yeah.

40:51Michèle Brandreth: I'm working towards that. Sunday the 22nd of January 1978. Michelle's father arrived with our first car. A third-hand Hillman Hunter with amazing deep purple Go Faster stripes. Michelle drives like a dream, of course. Now I have to learn. What happened to my plan always to have a chauffeur? I'm writing this in my room at the Midland Hotel Manchester. I've just had dinner with Derek Nimmo and Neil Shand, star and writer of Justin Nimmo, Derek's TV chat show. Derek is so convivial, such a happy bon viveur, and he knows his stuff. The Chateau Bataillé 1961 really was outstanding. I'm not sure where he gets his plummy voice and dandified manner from.

41:42Michèle Brandreth: He hails from Liverpool and lived in a caravan until about ten minutes ago. And I think his turned-up silly-ass nose is the result of a nose job that went wrong. But he's fun. The theme of the show was after dinner speaking. The best kind of evening, said Derek, is the one you spend eating with beautiful people, drinking with beautiful people and sleeping with a clear conscience. Neil Shan's theme was the nightmare of working in New York for David Frost. Neil ended up going crazy and flinging a television set out of his hotel window onto the Manhattan street below. David Frost was on the box at the time.

42:20Michèle Brandreth: If anyone had been killed, said Neil, it would have been Frost that killed them. Tuesday the 31st of January 1978. At 10.30 this morning, in the company's court, before Mr Justice Slade, we triumphed. We secured everything we asked for. Every penny of royalties due to us, and every penny of costs. Simon Clark and his dwarf girlfriend sat on the other side of the court, routed. We didn't look at them, and they didn't look at us. I had to leave at lunchtime to come to Cardiff. Michelle went back in to hear the full judgment. She called me with the details. It's possible, of course, that we'll not see a penny of the money.

43:03Michèle Brandreth: They can just say the cupboard is bare or leave the country. But the point is, we won. Justice has been done. Right has prevailed. Victory this day. Fuck you, Simon Clark. And while we're on the subject, I've just left Molly Parkin in the bar offering to have it off with whoever's in the mood. She's blind drunk, boasting of having pleasured an entire Welsh rugby team and assuring any who care to listen that the night is young and she's well up for it. She was in my room half an hour ago just before I began writing this, literally crawling about on the floor. I'm at the Beverley Hotel, Cardiff.

43:43Michèle Brandreth: We've been recording Cuckoo in the Nest at HTV. Neither is to be specially recommended. But I'm completely happy. We had our day in court and we won. Michelle and I are celebrating tomorrow with lunch at Quaglino's. I'm then going on to meet Mr Park at John Bell and Croydon in Wigmore Street to have my tubing fixed.

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45:31Michèle Brandreth: Tuesday, the 14th of February, 1978. Last night at 6.30 p.m., I arrived at the Hyde Park Hotel to make my second attempt on the world record for the longest ever after-dinner speech. I first got into the Guinness Book of Records in 1976 when I spoke for 4 hours, 19 minutes and 34 seconds. In 1977, Nicholas Parsons established a new record by speaking for 7 hours, 8 minutes and 3 seconds. Last night, again, to raise funds for action research for the Cribbled Child, we had a playoff. Nicholas and I in adjacent rooms in the same hotel vying to see which of us could speak the longer. My real anxiety had been the matter of going to the loo.

46:14Michèle Brandreth: I was confident I could talk through the night, but could I survive the night without needing a pee? That was my dilemma, resolved by Action Research, who sent me to John Bell and Croydon to be fitted with a surgical appliance. At John Bell and Croydon's, kindly Mr Park explained, when he produced the extraordinary contraption, this isn't just for the incontinent. This is used by generals and field marshals on parade grounds when taking the salute. Wear this and you can stand out in the freezing cold for hours without having to worry about a thing. The Duke of Edinburgh has one. They're invaluable.

46:50Michèle Brandreth: Essentially, the device is a lengthy piece of rubber tubing that you attach to your member and then strap to your leg. It has a four-pint capacity and a no-spillage guarantee. All strapped up, ready and willing, a little after 7.30pm, Nicholas and I shook hands, smiled for the cameras, bowed to the Toastmasters and Adjudicators, and moved into our separate dining rooms. We were out of earshot of one another, but the audience could mingle between the rooms. I had a good and supportive crowd. Pa, Noel Davis plus Margaret Rawlings, Simon Cadell, Tim Smith, the Sarches, Derek Nimmo, Sally Ann Lassen, etc.

47:28Michèle Brandreth: It began well. It continued well. My voice held. I paced it nicely. At about two in the morning, I began to feel the need for the loo. I began to think, when am I going to do this? What will it feel like? How much is four pints? The more I thought about it, the more eager I was to pee, and the more inhibited I became. The problem, I think, was knowing that I would be peeing in front of people. Of course, they wouldn't be able to see what was happening, but would they be able to tell? And would there be a noise, a terrible swooshing? I thought I'd go for it at the end of a story on the punchline, letting it happen masked by laughter or applause.

48:08Michèle Brandreth: Anyway, the moment came. I finished the story, there was laughter, a smattering of applause, and I said to myself, now, now, Giles, now, let it flow. Then I looked down and suddenly saw it, A long, thin, sausage skin of pale white rubber tubing snaking its way from my left trouser leg and slowly moving across the floor. My contraption had shifted its moorings and come adrift. At once, and oddly, without difficulty, I put the notion of peeing right behind me and forged on with the speech. Interestingly, it's now twelve hours later. I'm writing this at two p.m. and still I haven't been for a pee.

48:53Michèle Brandreth: Perhaps I never will again. But the pee that didn't come in the night was not the worst of it. The worst of it was this. At about 6 a.m., one of the action research people passed me a note asking, How are you doing? Are you ready to stop? I read it out loud and declared I was just warming up. Another note came, then another. Apparently, Nicholas was still going strong, and so was I. The organisers had therefore decided we should both stop, simultaneously at seven o 'clock and share the new world record 11 hours. I thought, fuck that. I said, no, thank you. I'm here to win. I carry on. Another note came.

49:36Michèle Brandreth: We are worried about Nicholas's heart. We're a health charity. At 7 a.m. you must both stop. And we did. At 7 a.m. they forced each of us to stop. The Toastmaster got up and said, It's over. I was very, very angry. I don't know how Nicholas felt, I didn't ask, but I was incensed. It was a challenge, it was a duel, and suddenly out of the blue, for no good reason, the frigging organisers had decided it was to be a draw. I'm afraid I did not behave graciously or well. I gathered up my notes, collected my coat, and went. I did not say goodbye to anyone. I'm still angry now. Of course, it's only a stupid little competition to raise money for charity.

50:26Michèle Brandreth: I know it's not important, but I am angry. I'm going to have to share a world record with Nicholas Parsons. Of course I'm effing angry.

50:37Harriet: Oh, Giles, that's a very dramatic evening.

50:40Michèle Brandreth: It was a dramatic evening. Do you think, I suppose I'm competitive. I wouldn't be like that now, I hope. Or do you think I would be?

50:49Harriet: I don't know. What were you talking about all night?

50:51Michèle Brandreth: Well, I was doing it, I think I did it. I mean, as you'll see, I can't bear to share the record with anybody, let alone Nicholas Parsons, who actually was a friend of mine. And so eventually I break the record again. And I certainly know the last time I did it, and I may have done it this way as well, I did a kind of A to Z in my head. So I did half an hour, let's say I chose that A was a letter, I did half an hour about America. Right. Then I did B, I did my boyhood.

51:15Harriet: Okay. You know, that sort of thing. That's a good way of doing it. Yeah, exactly.

51:19Michèle Brandreth: So I managed to get myself through it there. And it was going well because I was speaking without notes.

51:27Harriet: I know, it's amazing. And did everyone stay awake?

51:29Michèle Brandreth: They were sponsored as well. So we raised a lot of money for the charity. And what they, I suppose I should have said, how marvelous to share the record with Nicholas. But I just was furious because I'd psyched myself up. I got all this trouble to get it right and I wanted to win. But they were anxious. Nicholas was much older than any of us realised because when he died, he was 96. I don't think he had a heart problem at all. What was all that about?

51:55Harriet: He must have only been in his 50s at this point. And would you have minded if Nicholas Parsons had died of a heart attack and you'd won?

52:05Michèle Brandreth: That would have taken the guilt off the gingerbread, I suppose. It would have been a cake without a cherry on top. But I think I'd have coped.

52:12Harriet: Yeah, at least I won the world record.

52:15Michèle Brandreth: I mean, either you're competing or you're not competing.

52:18Harriet: Yes, come on. How serious are you taking this competition, Nicholas?

52:21Michèle Brandreth: This record could no longer be broken because do you know what happens nowadays? What? These endurance records, they oblige you every hour to take a break for your mental and physical well-being.

52:29Harriet: Oh, a hydration break.

52:30Michèle Brandreth: Not just a hydration break. They want to take your pulse. Yeah. Make sure that you... I mean, I do say fuck that. I mean, to be honest, either it's an endurance record or it isn't an endurance record.

52:40Harriet: No, it's true. I mean, I just called it a hydration break because to me the fact they've introduced that into the World Cup is emblematic of a slight sort of snowflakiness that we have now. But I've enjoyed the hydration breaks in the World Cup. They play some music, don't they? You get to kind of, yourself, you can go and have a hydration break. You can go and make yourself a cup of tea while they do that. I think it's a good introduction.

53:03Michèle Brandreth: I have to tell you, I think you may hear something from the great Sir Geoff Hurst, who was there in 1966, about hydration breaks and the way things are run nowadays when we hear him on Friday as our very special World Cup guest.

53:16Harriet: Oh, I'm sure he's not a fan.

53:17Michèle Brandreth: He is not a hydration break man. No. You get out there, you play football, then you come off.

53:24Harriet: Don't complain.

53:25Michèle Brandreth: And you don't jump up and down and hug one another. That is a useless use of energy during the game.

53:30Harriet: Yeah.

53:31Michèle Brandreth: You possibly shake hands and then you move on. Yes. Is that where we're going to stop for today?

53:36Harriet: Yes.

53:36Michèle Brandreth: Oh, my gosh. You've left us with me sharing a world record with Nicholas Parsons.

53:41Harriet: and not having peed for over 24 hours

53:44Michèle Brandreth: oh it was very strange that I think it took me days do tune in at a fortnight's time and discover when and if I've peed ever again maybe I haven't, maybe I've been holding it in all these years maybe it explains everything it's interesting once you do hold it in

54:00Harriet: for some reason you can do it for quite a long time can't you, quite impressive

54:05Michèle Brandreth: has it been worse for you since having children going to the loo No? Because I always associated it with having the children. I started needing to go to the room in the middle of the night, all those years ago, when we began having children. And I know it's something to do with having children, because now we have grandchildren, it's got even worse. Sometimes I now have to get up twice in the night.

54:26Harriet: Oh dear.

54:27Michèle Brandreth: And we've got seven grandchildren. So I directly associated with the children. Once the children came along, I had to go up once in the night. I know this may be too much information, but we're all friends.

54:38Harriet: Well, don't have great grandchildren, Giles. You'll be getting up three times a night.

54:42Michèle Brandreth: Absolutely. But I'm not sleeping very well anymore.

54:45Harriet: No, who needs sleep?

54:47Michèle Brandreth: Who needs sleep? I'm loving this diary because I'm discovering, I mean, I tell the story about this as long as ever after in the speech, quite often. But the version I tell is quite different from what actually happened. I've turned it into a, and I haven't, the version I now tell, it was the Duke of Edinburgh who sent me to John Bell and Croydon. Clearly it wasn't. When I got there, they told me that Duke of Edinburgh had one of these appliances.

55:09Harriet: Yeah.

55:09Michèle Brandreth: That's how I got the Duke of Edinburgh into the story. I mean, that appliance sounds riddled with problems. Riddled with problems.

55:16Harriet: Yeah. I don't believe it's... I've still got it. ...fail safe.

55:20Michèle Brandreth: I've got it. I've still got it.

55:22Harriet: I mean, how do they attach it well enough that it does...

55:26Michèle Brandreth: There are straps. When I tell the version now, it's not a Mr Park.

55:31Harriet: A strap's not going to attach it well enough.

55:33Michèle Brandreth: Well, if you want to know, maybe you don't want to know, you don't need to know. There is a contraption which they apply, put right over your private parts.

55:44Harriet: Yeah.

55:44Michèle Brandreth: And it engulfs your private parts. And attached to the contraption is the rubber tubing.

55:49Harriet: Yeah, no, I can imagine. It's attaching it, I think, is difficult.

55:53Michèle Brandreth: No, the attaching it, it's strapped in. It was probably now done on Velcro, but then it was actually like a belt. You put it on, you put it tight. Oh, right, yeah. And that's the way it worked. And obviously, I didn't do the belt up properly. Or maybe I was moving about telling my funny stories and the belt came loose. Anyway. But I have kept it. I've been tempted to auction it at charity, but it's part of my archive. Anyway. But I was just thinking about the diary and how great it is to have the diary and how I should probably try and get it fully indexed. Because, you know, last week, we had the horrific news of the murder of Anne Whittacombe.

56:36Michèle Brandreth: and I've written a lot about Anne Whittacombe in the diary. I expect she popped up in the diary section about our time together at Oxford. I know she pops up later when we get to us being members of Parliament together. And I've talked a little bit about her in the last few days, not much. I've been asked to do, because we were contemporaries at university, people have said, you know, what do you remember of Anne? and what I do remember of Anne is that she was rather like Ken Clarke, a politician who was at ease with herself. She was comfortable in her own skin and I'm not sure how many politicians now feel able to be like that.

57:15Michèle Brandreth: I say Ken Clarke. Her views and those of Ken Clarke were totally different but they were easy people to be with, whether you agreed with them or disagreed with them because they were comfortable in themselves and I first met Anne at the Oxford Union Debating Society when she was young and she was fun and she was feisty and she loved a good debate. She loved a good argument in debate. At the end of which, you know, plenty of ding-dong, we'd go to the bar and have a drink. And only last year or the year before, the 200th anniversary of the Oxford Union, the debating society at Oxford, we went back and we had another debate.

57:53Michèle Brandreth: And there was more ding-dong and then a drink at the bar. And she was like that. And I think maybe we've lost a bit of that. And interestingly, what have you felt of the obituary stuff or the pieces you've read about her in the last few days? Have you got an impression of her at all?

58:09Harriet: Well, she seemed a lot of fun. I loved how much she got into doing Strictly and the life she had after that, the sort of more showbiz life that she had and how much she loved Anton. So there was obviously...

58:23Michèle Brandreth: I once asked her.

58:24Harriet: Yeah, a real love of life.

58:26Michèle Brandreth: Her Christian faith was fundamental to her. And I said to her, you know, tell me, the seven deadly sins, which ones are you guilty of? And she said, oh, it's very clear. I'm guilty of gluttony. Oh. She said, because I love my food. I am greedy. I am a glutton. And she said, I'm afraid there's a touch of pride as well. And she said that had come about because she so loved being recognized after Strictly. She really loved that. Yeah. And it was fun. And she loved, what is interesting is she loved the romance. She was a romantic soul in many ways. I mean, she loved dancing with Anton, but she told me The Prisoner of Zender was her favourite novel, which is a great swashbuckling romantic story from the 19th century.

59:03And what was interesting about her was she had very firm views.

59:08Michèle Brandreth: She was very clear. I mean, her collection of speeches which she gave me is called Inspired and Outspoken. And she was inspired in her own way, and she certainly was outspoken. But she had very firm views. For example, she believed that what she called the great experiment of the 1960s and the 1970s hadn't worked. She said, you know, there's more promiscuity, there are more children born out of wedlock, there's more divorce, there's more suicide. I don't think this is good. That was her belief. But she didn't carry that over into her private life. She didn't vote for any of the measures to equalise, for example, same-sex relationships.

59:44Michèle Brandreth: She was against the whole LGBT movement. and yet some of her very closest friends were gay people. So she as a person was empathetic, outgoing and fun but she knew where she was and I asked her, I said, what has life taught you? A question I might have asked her at the end of Rosebud and she said that her philosophy was quite simple. Carpe diem, seize the day and beyond that she said, do in life always what you believe to be right and leave the rest to almighty God Cue the music

1:01:13Michèle Brandreth: That's this week's more Rosebud. with me, Giles Brandreth and my friend and producer, Harriet Jane. It's produced by Harriet and I turn up too. While every other channel is fighting for your customer's attention, podcasts are where they've already given it. No one accidentally listens to a podcast for 45 minutes. They choose to be here. They trust the voice in their ears and when that voice talks about your brand, it doesn't sound like advertising. It sounds like a recommendation from a friend. Acast gives you that trust at scale. digital precision, post-read authenticity, and performance data that proves it worked.

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